The Press Box - A Contentious White House Correspondents’ Association Dinner, Jackie Robinson and the Defense Department, and a Buyout Bloodbath in Chicago

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Hello, media consumers! Bryan and Joel fire up the mics to close out the week here at 'The Press Box.' Joel takes you to J-School, where he discusses whether or not there is a diet for Kanye West content, Collin Morikawa’s comments on mainstream coverage, and getting off the Feinstein train. Joel closes the segment with a brief tribute to his uncle Doug (1:45). Then they get into the following headlines: The Trump administration's replacements for the White House Correspondents' Association dinner (26:12) The removal of Jackie Robinson’s story from the Department of Defense’s website (36:08) Is March Madness losing its luster? (46:39) The Chicago Sun-Times buyout (1:02:30) Hosts: Bryan Curtis and Joel D. Anderson Producer: Brian H. Waters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, hey there. It's your girl, Bryn Whitfield. You might know me from a little show called The Real Housewives of New York City on Bravo. You are about to see a whole different side of me on edited, by the way. On my new podcast, please see below. Spoiler alert, it's not about passive-aggressive company emails. It's actually way juicier than that. Join me every week as we get down and dirty with my friends, celebrities, experts, even some of our exes. from dating the highs and lows of reality TV, career sex, you name it.

And honey, we're not just going to spill the tea. I am here to smash the entire pot. Believe me, you're going to want to see and hear what's below. Please see below with me, Bryn Whitfield, is premiering soon. Available everywhere you love to listen to podcasts. Media consumers, welcome to Pressbox. You've got Brian Curtis, Joel Anderson, and producer Brian Waters. coming up on a very big pod, the White House correspondent's dinner was already an iffy proposition.

Should it happen when the president is Donald Trump? And speaking of which, we'll talk about the Defense Department and Jackie Robinson, how March Madness plays in 2025, the return of NBA inside stuff, and they buyout bloodbath in Chicago. But first, let me take you to a place where the student parking is always free, as long as you don't know, a Tesla. Let me take you to J-School. A quick but important correction, Brian. We charge for parking at J-school because we encourage public transit. So take the bus. Take the train, my dear students. Parking is expensive. We need that space. It's suffering from a mind virus over there. Ah, the wokenness, the wokenness coming through. Park parking is expensive. You don't want to have my

beautiful campus sullied with all these ugly parking lots, man. Come on. I agree. I agree. Having been a veteran of a college that had many an ugly parking lot. I mean, TCU, you had a few of those as well. Also, just real quick note about Tesla since you brought it up, today, Brian, I was driving my son to the playground and we drove past a Tesla dealership. And I'm not making this up. This isn't me, you know, trying to gas my son up. I swore he said this, look at those funny-looking trucks.

Son, yeah. Is that wrong? He's got a point there. I want to start off with something that did not come up in this show on Monday. And I just kind of was thinking about it as I've been paying attention to social media. I haven't really kept abreast of the latest in Kanye West anymore in large part because there's this real intense competition for my eyeballs and ears. Right?

Like, I can't just so much that I've got to filter through that I just really can't go out of my way looking for Kanye. And then, of course, there's more than enough terrible people in the news that I don't have to take specials. side quest to learn about one of them in particular. But I've got it. Kanye has been on a run in recent days that I think, and you tell me, I think it rivals Charlie Sheen's Tiger Blood Meteor of 2011 for like sheer unhingedness. He seems desperate to, as Rick James once told Charlie Murphy to go to the abyss, it's been pathetic, profane, painful, and to sort of close out the alliteration here.

prolific. So here's a short list of the things Kanye West has said on the website, formerly known as Twitter, in recent days. Yesterday, which would be Wednesday for people listening here, Kanye accused Kim Kardashian, his ex-wife and mother of his four children, of sex trafficking. In fact, one tweet specifically reads, Kim Kardashian is a sex trafficker. This allegedly happened in the wake of Kardashian preventing their daughter North from visiting him after security guards and formed her that Andrew and Tristan Tate, the far-right influencers who were charged with rape in Romania and who are facing similar lawsuits here and in the UK, we're going to be showing up at Kanye's home. On Tuesday, he sent out a series of offensive tweets directed at the children of Jay-Z and Beyonce. No need to go into much detail there other than to say that he questioned whether or not they were developmentally challenged. he's also been publicly supporting the man now known as Diddy, and for those who don't remember Diddy is facing federal indictment

for sex trafficking and racketeering charges and a bunch of other civil lawsuits that echo very similar claims. And look, there's a whole other list of people he's been offending and other stuff, but he's also been wearing swastika t-shirts in public and tried to sell some not too long ago. So that about sums up where he is now, right? So first of First question, Brian,

what's your favorite Kanye West song? Run away. Oh, I had one. Okay. That's a very good choice. I like that. I'm going to be honest. I looked it up before we got on here

because I just saw Kanye on the dock and I was like, I need to have an answer. You did. I need to be ready. But wait. Is that a sincere choice? Are you, are you?

I said what I said. Okay. I'm taking to it. No need to go into any further detail. I'm going to accept. as is. Great. So, Brian, where is the big long profile on Kanye right now? Like, don't you think there would or should be an appetite for one? It's got to be being worked on. There's no way that has not been assigned. Now, here comes the complications, right? Team of lawyers.

Yeah, working it over. You fall immediately into the whirlpool about platform. that you always do when you have a figure like Kanye West. How much of this stuff should you be dredging up? Should you interview him if he would consent to be interviewed for a profile like that? Or is that just putting more stuff into the world that you don't want to put in the world and you want to stay at 30,000 feet? If you were going to do the profile, let's say Bill comes to you and he assigns you this story. He's like, I need you to do the Kanye West profile. Would you interview him?

did you try i think that's the question i think you probably i think the answer that is probably yes but i think you if if he would do it but i think you'd be very very judicious about what you'd use yeah what's the question you're trying to answer here is it just a basic what happened yeah right what happened to him like i mean there's been a lot of conjecture about what is behind this run of you know like maybe he's promoting an album maybe he's off of his quote meds, you know, and I think that, you know, clearly he does want attention. Like, he's clearly seeking some sort of attention. And I think because of who he is and the prominence and all the people that he's going after, there is some, I am sort of curious to know,

like, what's motivating him right now? And actually, like, what is the state of his life? Like, what is, he just got divorced. I mean, I know people forgot that he was married up until recently, but he just also just got divorced, too. So there's just a lot swirling around him. And I'm, you know, Bill Simmons, our boss used to talk about the Mike Tyson zone, right? You say anything about Mike Tyson, you believe it. I'm kind of like that with Kanye now, you know? You can say Kanye did anything and I might believe it right now.

Absolutely. I mean, again, would I read the hell out of that profile on the right hands? Absolutely. When you talk about what his life is like, I think a little bit about Stephen Roderick going to hang out with Johnny Depp for a while and part of it is just like what is it like in that world in that immediate sort of you know that that zone around him right now on a day-to-day minute-by-minute basis so fascinating story if someone can get it so you think the rolling stone is going to do it then huh they might they might I mean again I would I would be shocked that that has not been assigned two or three times already yeah right

and rather whether they couldn't get what they wanted I mean and again like to me that the you know 10,000 word from above profile of it, you know, just the kind of almost big essay about what happened, right? That's that's writable too and I'd love to read that one as well. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. And actually that, I mean, that seems like a pretty, I'm surprised we haven't seen more of that yet. It could be that my media diet, such as it is, hasn't come across my same. Same, right.

But yeah, I would be, I would be interested in that. So if anybody is working on that or if there is one out there, please let us know. I'd like to know because I can't even find a timeline of everything he's done. I mostly have been piecing things together through TMZ and page six and like headlines from other places like people. You know what I mean? Absolutely. Yeah.

So back to the show from Monday. I listened with great interest to the little bit you talked about Colin Moore. By the way, sounds like a letter to the editor. I read with great interest, sir. Yeah. I'm being an ombudsman. I'm the press boxes on Budzman and the co-host. And he expressed what seems to be a mainstream opinion that athletes don't need media coverage, right?

And, you know, TV rights deals be damned. And you guys sort of touched on something that golf channels, Todd Lewis said on the golf channel podcast, which is that quote, he does owe the fans. And without those fans, Colin Morikawa, would be a multi-millionaire living in a really nice place in Las Vegas. But setting that aside, I thought it was really interesting that it happened the week after Tiger Woods underwent surgery after rupturing his left Achilles tendon, which means that finally Tiger Woods and I have something in common. I tore my Achilles in 2004. That was a long time ago. And Tiger has sort of faded in regard in recent years in prominence for reasons that I assume most of our listeners already know. but like, duh.

I mean, he's, the biggest is he got old and hurt and he doesn't win anymore, right? But I heard more about him dating Vanessa Trump than about his injury, I feel like. And again, this could just be a media diet thing as much as anything. What about you? I mean, I've kind of been surprised at how little of a role Tiger Woods takes up in the public domain now. Well, we had our old guy still got it moment at the 2019 Masters. and then I feel there are a bunch of painful attempts to come back, to get back on a more regular basis, followed by a lot of Tiger Woods statement tweets where I'd be like, I am not going to

play because. And then it kind of got lost, at least for me, not being a day-to-day golf fan in a in a kind of stew of he's hurt and he's going to be hurt for a while. and I don't totally know, and I agree with you, but I've heard more about his dating life than his golf game lately. Right, which is why I'm just sort of interested in Collins' approach because I thought that it was sort of the goal to be Tiger Woods.

And one way you do that is being, you don't have to be friendly with the media, but you kind of have to put yourself in front of the media to become who Tiger Woods. I mean, it helped the Tiger Woods one. Like, I'm not saying that the media made Tiger Woods. But I'm just... It did not make Tiger Woods either.

Yeah, right, right, absolutely. And in a climate where there's a general hostility at worst or apathy at best toward the media, I just wonder if the days of tigers and pretending are sort of over. Like, you know, athletes have their own platforms, access as restricted across all levels, pretty much. I mean, I don't know. All right. So a couple of things there.

When you talk about your own platform, Kalamork, I looked this up this morning, he's got about 700,000 Instagram followers. Yep. Can you imagine how different. Walker Woods' outlook is toward the media in the late 90s if Instagram exists and if he has, and of course it would be a factor of how many, you know, when he wins his first masters. Right. You know, it would be like how many people could he just summon at the touch of a button and speak

to it at the touch of a button. So he, Tiger is definitely from a different media age. I will say that. What was so interesting in Brody Miller's piece in The Athletic that we were talking about on Monday is that he was talking about Scotty Sheffler. And Scotty Sheffler is one of these guys. who comes out for the most part and does his media appearances and says absolutely nothing. Yeah. He's there, but he's not there in a particularly healthful way. There were a couple of,

you know, rougher moments recently, but like he just, he's just, he's just doing it. He's the senatorial spurs of golf. That's what you're saying. He's that he's not paying. He's not paying his share. Yeah. So that's like, that's what's always so interesting to me now is you have guys that are completely bought out, but you also have guys who are in with their big toe. And like, I'm here. Right. Yeah. I will give an answer to your question,

but it's not going to help you at all. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, I guess I don't know. I'm wondering if the media could even help. Like, you know, and that's, I'm musing here. I wonder if the media could even help to create a superstar like that anymore. You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know if we have, we have the influencer platform to to elevate anybody like that, right?

It depends on who you mean by we, because I think if you think of Jim Nance and his gang at CBS, then absolutely they do. Yeah. And Dan Hicks and his gang at NBC. Like, they do need the people that show golf on television.

Yep. To make those matches exciting, to talk about them during rounds, to, you know, do that glowing post-victory interview on the 18th Green. Show them with family at the end or anything like that

or fathers and mothers, whatever, right? Yes, even in a world of social media clips, I still believe that matters fundamentally. Do they need people that are just members of the golf press? It's a great question. I do think there are golf people out there and golf nerds, and you and I are not two of those people. But there are people out there who, after a bad Colin Morikawa loss, want to know what he said. They want to know what happened.

They want to hear him reflecting on that or read people writing about that. yeah I look I understand you guys talked about if you did a bad podcast you want to walk off or whatever I really think I mean if it's probably very difficult if the main thing that you do you have sort of failed it but man I just if you can sort of have an elevated sense of like perspective there you'd be like this can help me like being human in this moment right like showing them ah this is really painful I don't you know this is not what I'm I wanted to happen, whatever, right? Absolutely. And again, and then there's a little bit of a, I don't want to say it's a tradeoff, but there's a sense that like, look, you guys are here asking me questions and writing about me when I win.

Right. And so I'm also going to show up when I lose and when I lose painfully. Now, and again, in this instance, he did show up two days later and answer a bunch of questions. The walkoff was a one day walkoff two days later. He was there answering all the questions that people had about his walkoff. He just uttered in that. moment of line, I don't owe anyone.

He was very hurt that people question him walking off. Indeed. Oh, one quick thing. Oh, God, it still got it. You guys didn't bring it up last week, but I will. Bill Billichick. Oh. Is that Tyson's zone or old guys still got it?

Look, man, North Carolina, bro. TCU's coming to Chapel Hill to start the season. I hope you guys ready. So, and also last episode, you mentioned that you got off the Feinstein train. And when did that happen? Like, can you tell me a little bit about that? Because I have a follow about that after you do that. I want to say I read his books pretty religiously through a March to Madness,

which I want to say was late 90s. But then when he had the books about the Ravens, I mean, this was not like a formal swearing off. Right. I didn't, you know, have some personal news Twitter announcement. But it just kind of. Not as urgent to me, maybe, or something. It wasn't something I would just go out and buy on the first day, something like that

or even really get around a reading. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, I mean, the thing is like at that point, I mean, media started becoming more diffuse. Like he was not, he did not hold the same place in the public imagination by the late 90s, early aughts that he did, you know, a decade. In a book that would come out months after a thing or a year after an event, you know, again, would you and I still read those books maybe in a certain instances, but they don't carry

the kind of weight that they once did. I mean, I think the same way about campaign books. I used to read those all the time. I'd be like, I can't wait up to 2008. Like, how Obama won, you know, like what happened with John McCain? Like, I would want to read that stuff. And now you're going to think, man, I feel like I read that book 18 times during the campaign itself. Right, right, right.

They're rushing it out. I mean, I guess that's why it also leads to another topic for another day about, like, why reporters sometimes withhold information that you would think that they'd want to report for their primary employer, but they kind of save for those books, right? They're just swirling away those nuggets, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, one thing I was thinking about, and you and Dave talked about this, like the qualities that make a great reporter can make you a difficult human being. But I was sort of thinking about this and sort of my career, and I don't, I'll have to let people decide for themselves what kind of person they think I am. but don't you think the journalism could sort of make you a better and more well-rounded person? And but like I feel like going and having to talk to people on their terms, on their home turf,

helped me with confidence. It helped me with like understanding people's point of view. Like, you know, you spend time with parents who children have died in an extraordinarily cruel and surprising way. Or like you sit through a trial where people have been accused of really bad things, but then you hear from the defense attorney, well, let me tell you how this person grew up or athletes who've managed to succeed despite deprivation and desperation,

it almost seems fictional. Like I spent several months on Clarence Thomas and in a weird way sort of came to empathize with him in his life story. And I was wondering, like, how often do you think that, because you're right, but I know plenty of reporters for whom, like, it's a good fit because of kind of an asshole, right? But I was always sort of a shy person.

And I think that journalism opened me up to the world in a lot of ways. And I just wonder what so do your experience what that was. I'm the same way. I think part of what interested me about this business was overcoming my natural shyness. Forcing me to go talk to people. Yes. Make phone calls. And especially people that I didn't know.

Yep. Not that I was avoiding or walking away from. them, but I just didn't know, right? Like you have to go out and forge relationships and talk to people and understand. Yes, I mean, to your point, absolutely it should make you that kind of person. And I think it does on specific beats and with specific assignments. I think there's a whole different kind of reporter. And you see this in their coverage where it's like, it's just kind of a game.

That's right. Sometimes, by the way, these are noble scoops. You know, it's me against the establishment and they don't want you to know this. and I want you to know this, but you read it, and I don't know that like empathy or interest in humans or how people live or the real world really comes through so much as an interest in the game. Right.

Vapor is not going to get you there. No, the game of sports, the game of franchise building, the game of politics, whatever it is. That's what they're interested in, right? And again, some of those people are really freaking good reporters and you need them. Right. Because you need you need them to be our assholes who are out there like, you know, this is, this is, this is, you know, this isn't what are they, what's the old, this is a flag football, you know, right? You have to go out there. You need some of those people. But sometimes I read their work and I'm like, what do you care about? What touches you? What, what makes you have those moments you're talking about. We're like, I came into this thinking this. And I may still think this at the end of it, but my, but my view has been complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a very human story under here that I at least have to take stock of. Yeah, I mean, I just kind of, I've always just been kind of interested in like, I mean, I think the thing, and just personally, we didn't take vacations when I was growing up. Like, I never went on vacation. We visited family when we went out of town. And so the thing about journalism for me is that it freed us to, like, go see people in different places all over the country. I think I told you last week that I interviewed Craig Robinson for a story. And you know why I did that? I just wanted to go to Oregon.

I'd never been to Oregon before. I was like, what's a good excuse to get up to Oregon? I've done so many stories like that. Yeah, can I go to that part of the country? Yep, yep, yeah, yeah. I mean, and look, I'm still up for doing it whenever I get permission, of course. It would be a very important journalistic purpose. We assure our bosses.

Of course, of course, of course. Okay, and look, I'm going to close out here, Jay School here, just a brief note about something. So people who know me professionally know my name is Joel D. Anderson. And I don't often say what the D is. It's Douglas. And it's named after my uncle Douglas Anderson. And so my uncle Doug died earlier this week. And oh, man, I caught my throat there a little bit.

I hadn't even said it like that before. And, you know, we were talking a little bit before. We're going to get into talking about uncles. And it's just weird how people will influence your life in ways that you don't know. My uncle Doug served on the front lines in Vietnam so my father didn't have to. My father was a medic. My father still got injured in Vietnam. He was a purple heart.

But who knows what peril he saved my father from? And the story goes this way. My uncle Doug, they're from Hot Springs, Arkansas. We had family in Kerrville, Texas. We spent a lot of time in Currville. Uncle Doug went to college at Texas Southern University in Houston, not long after that. And my father was going to follow him there after he got back from Vietnam. But he said that the bus lost all his clothes.

And so he went back home to Arkansas and instead went to the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff, where he met my mom. They had me a few years later and we moved to Houston. And so my Uncle Doug is responsible in a lot of ways for me being here. And so I'm going to hopefully, you know, his funeral is next week. But he was just the warmest, nicest guy. And like when I think of uncles, like, you know, we're talking about like the prototype of an uncle. He was that for me.

And I'm really going to miss him, man. I'm going to miss you, Uncle Doug. I wish I'd been a better nephew. I wish I'd been there a little bit more. But we're going to pay more and better tribute to him at his funeral next week. But I just feel like I had to say that because note, I just say Joel D. Anderson, but that actually stands for somebody who is really important to me. I'm so glad you did.

And I'm so sorry to hear about your uncle. I mean, uncles are such a fun figure in our lives. Are they not? Oh, my God. Yeah. Is it not your parent? Mm-hmm. They're kind of like your parent.

They have some authority, but what makes them fun is that there's a different relationship. Absolutely. They show you all the many sides of like, I mean, if you're a boy, masculinity and manhood. Like there's all kinds of ways to be a man, right? Yes. And your uncles can cover the range if you have enough of them. I had, I guess I have a total of a total, I had a total of 10 uncles, like real blood, blood uncles and a few other like, you know, uncle, like figures. But yeah.

So it's just, yeah, you're right. Like, you know, and you're an uncle. Have you become an uncle? I'm not an uncle. My wife and I are both only children. Wow. You're an only child too? I don't think you do this.

I will never be an uncle. Oh, man. You're an uncle at heart. You can be an uncle to Desmond, I promise. I had some uncles. I have some uncles that taught me absolutely what you're talking about. Visions of manhood like Dallas Cowboys Training Camp, pro wrestling. I mean, they covered the waterfront.

Yeah, man. That's it. Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely. Hanging out in bars when we got older. I mean, I learned a lot. Oh, hang out. I mean, I had an uncle who I remember once, my parents, for some reason,

they left me with him when I was in middle school. He woke me up in the middle of the night on a school night to go get a six-pack of beer and some cigarettes at the grocery store up the store. And you learned something from that. I do. I do. I did. I mean, it's one of the more fun memories I ever have driving to that,

that Randall's grocery store in the middle of the night. And you may say, like, I never want to do this when I'm older. I never want to be that guy. But there's something you learn from that moment. It was, it was beautiful in its own way, right? You want to do some headlines? Yeah, let's do some headlines. All right.

Joel, the Trump administration has banned the Associated Press from various White House events. So that's still going on. Okay. Still going on. Still to standoff over the Gulf of America. The Trump White House has also. tried to replace correspondence with the likes of Brian. I'm just asking questions, Glenn, and sage steel.

Oh, amazing. That's safe. Stee's still, huh? Okay, good. You're good stuff. All right. So given all that, let's have a party, shall we? All right, let's do it.

Let's enjoy this relationship that reporters have with the Trump White House. Because the White House correspondence dinner, the extremely embattled, event no dead's nerd prom is scheduled for April 26th. Man. Now the White House Correspondents dinner in normal times usually includes a comedian like Roy Wood or Colin Joost doing material. The president often sits through the material and then sometimes does some roasting of his own.

Here's Barack Obama back in 2009. Bipartisan outreach will be so successful that even John Boehner will consider becoming a Democrat. After all, we have a lot in common. He is a person of color, although not a color that appears in the natural world. That joke started out bad, but it heated up pretty quick. It really did, right?

That was 2009. The most famous Obama White House correspondent's dinner was 2011, where he made fun of Trump. And a lot of people said Trump was he made. and then vowed, I will run for president one day and call it the Gulf of America. Man. What if they just called it off that year? But yeah, man.

By the way, that entire Obama set last 17 minutes. It's on YouTube if you want to watch it. Lots of jokes about Michelle Obama and the quote, right to bear arms, as in she's buff. She's very, right? Reaction shots from Ashton Coucher and Mark Noler in the audience, which is my kind of party. Let me tell you something. Have you been to one? I have not been to one.

I'm shocked. I'm surprised. I'm not a White House insider like you are now. Yeah, that's fair point. Fair point. I just kind of usually, I just, Brian, I have so much respect for you in your career.

I just kind of assume you've done it all. No. And it always just seems so weird to me. I mean, even if I had been invited from afar, it just seems so strange. Yes, yes. That everybody's putting on these clubs.

Forget even the ethical part of it, which we'll get into it just a second. but we're all putting on these clothes. We're all sitting around these tables. And then there's politicians up on a dais doing material along with a comedian. Yeah. Maybe that's normal in Washington. I saw that the gridiron dinner happened last week.

And I was like, that's still going on? We're still doing all these dinners. Hey, man. I mean, it's just, I guess we got to pass the time doing something. You know what I mean? All right. This here's nerd prom, not so funny. The Washington Post Jeremy Barr wrote about it.

And an anonymous White House correspondent tells Jeremy Barr, quote, I think there's a growing cinnamon among the press corps that we should not be having the dinner this year. It never has looked great. But now especially, are we really going to be mingling in our tuxes and our ballgowns with members of an administration that is curtailing press access that is banning the associated press over word choice that are blowing up the pool system and handpicking friendly outlets to replace independent journalists? are we going to go and party with them? Yeah, that seems like a terrible idea.

So, Joel, what do we think about having a nerd prom when the White House is attacking the nerds? Well, I mean, first of all, that anonymous correspondent, I mean, you are much more optimistic about mingling with the members of that administration than I am, because are you sure that they will show up to that thing? I don't, maybe they've got some RSVPs

that I don't know anything about, but I cannot really imagine them showing up in force this year. We should know Trump has never attended this dinner. Yeah. Right. Right. And so, I mean, look, I'm sure there are going to be people that are members of the organization and that go to this thing every year that will disagree with me. And maybe I'll seem a little too stride in my objection to this.

But yeah, I mean, I've given everything you just said, given everything we know about, about it. I mean, it seemed embarrassing before this current set of circumstances. Like, I just like the excitement and the enthusiasm of people I had for going, I thought was just a little grotesque is too strong over word. But I was just like, come on, guys. This is a little embarrassing, right? This year, I mean, I just don't know how you can make a case to even host this this year. Right. Like, okay, if you have to have an event, fine. But does it have to be the same standard event that you've had every year going back for so many years? Right. Like maybe you have a fundraiser, some sort of other drive or something like that. But like coming together to do that, like, I just, I mean, but again, I feel like I'm giving the easy answer, aren't I? Well, let me ask you this. Let's say Donald Trump doesn't come. Let's say members of the Trump administration. have absolutely no interest in coming.

So they don't come either. And this turns into then some kind of press dinner of the kind of the kind that you and I normally don't get invited to either. That is about patting ourselves on the back and talking about the First Amendment and the AP has a table over there and we celebrate First Amendment and what we're doing and covering the White House and holding the powerful to account. Is that a bad thing? I mean, there's a lot of dinners like that in the world.

Yeah, I mean, I guess like maybe if you strip it of the dinner artifice, like make it more of... You're just objecting to the chicken that's going to be served? Yeah, right. You know, we don't have to, you don't have no quail, you know, no, no, no, no flavorless mashed potatoes. That's the line you've drawn, okay. Yeah, like, maybe if you did it is like a sort of a convention or a conference or some sort. And it's going over all these various sundry threats to media freedom in this country, with a keynote address

and some other speakers or whatever. I mean, that's probably the boring way to do it. But I just think there's something about the jokes, the coming together, like that is the part I think is sort of out of step with the moment and the mood in the country. But yeah, I mean, that's what I think. But would you go?

I mean, if you got invited right now. For the Trump administration? Yeah. Would you go even for a new story? Like if you like even would you go is a music too. So we're thinking Carolyn Levitt and Trump officials are going to be there or I'm just going to observe the media in doing this very awkward dance of having a correspondence dinner when the administration hates them. You have no idea. You just know that you got to go and like maybe she'll be there.

Maybe she won't because I think it's like I don't know that it feels like with this administration that they could say that they're going to be there and not show up. But you know, I feel like that variable is a little harder to control on their end, right? It is. I mean, I think my hazmat suit would be that I would be a media reporter reporting on me. Hey, I'm just showing up to see what's happening here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not reporting. But would I go if I were a White House correspondent, what I want to go? I think it'd be really iffy. I mean, you know, and it's what's funny about is like when you see the defenses of it, it's always like, hey, we're raising money for scholarships. That's a lot of ways of this event is about. I was like, yeah, I was like, can we do something else? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of ways to raise money, right? Can we sell reese door to door at Christmas time? Can we do something else to get money for young journalists? Like I think that's great if they're handing those out. But this feels like that feels like a real fig leaf over this whole thing. I think what you want to do, again, under non-Trump presidents,

has have this night where, hey, we're going at each other, 365 days a year. And this one night we're all going to get together and laugh. We're going to prove that we have this, you know, that we're all part of this Washington thing, this machine. And we're going to, you're going to bust on a lot. us and we're going to bust on you. Yeah.

That's what they were going for, right? That clearly was the draw of this whole thing. Absolutely. Well, I mean, it's barely, I feel like it's barely about like that part of it because I feel like in recent years and people can, more experience than me and tell me, you know, what this was like years ago. It seems like it's been more about like the celebrities that showed up and like, oh, this person showed up with this person.

Like you said, Ashton Cutscher was there one year, right? So Time Magazine or whatever would invite a celebrity to sit at their table. That's what you did. Mm-hmm. And then you got a little reflected glow from your schlubby journalist's attention. Oh, yeah, that person showed up. And he was like, yeah, they accepted our invite, right? Like, it reflects well on, allegedly on you that a celebrity would want to sit at the table with you at this event. Which is really sad. If we're being honest. I mean, it's called nerd prom, right? Like, that's the biggest nerd thing. It's like,

oh, man, the popular kid came and showed up, right? They set to my invitation. And you're a journalist, right? These are the people you should be trying to interview. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, I would like to know if Ashley Cuchin had to give an interview at the end of that. No, I don't think so. I think they just liked having Ashton right where he was. Headline number two, it's baseball season. And Joel, I know this because I woke up on Tuesday morning here in Los Angeles to a news alert that the hometown Dodgers had won their opening day game against the Cubs in Japan. That's right.

The game was over in Los Angeles when I woke up. I mean, that's crazy. I remember, that's the way. I'm trying to remember where I found out. But it was the same thing. I was like, oh, shit, it is baseball season already, huh? Okay. We should do that.

Where were you when you found out baseball season had begun in 2025? In all fairness, baseball season is supposed to start on like April 1st or like March 30th. It's not supposed to start on, you know, March 8, you know, mid-March. That's not right. Like you're supposed to still be in spring training, right? Exactly. And it seemed like a very cool scene out there in Japan and et cetera. Good for that.

Same day. I'm on Twitter X on the account of ESPN Insider. Jeff Passon. And we got some other baseball news. Or maybe we should call it the absence of news. Because Passon tweeted this. This used to be the URL for a story on the Department of Defense website about Jackie Robinson's time in the army.

The story has been removed. The ghouls who did this should be ashamed. Jackie Robinson was the embodiment of an American hero. Now Passon followed up the next day. and said when asked about the reason for the removal of the story on the Department of Defense website about Jackie Robinson's military service, Pentagon's press secretary John Uliad said the following in a statement to ESPN. I will quote from that statement here. As Secretary Heggseth, that's Pete Hexeth, has said, DEI is dead at the Defense Department.

Discriminatory equity ideology is a form of woke cultural Marxism that has no place in our military. It divides the force, erodes unit cohesion, and interferes with the services core warfighting mission. You see what he did there? Divides, erodes, interferes. So then 20 minutes after that, passing posts an update from the Defense Department. They've now got a new statement. Everyone at the Defense Department loves Jackie Robinson. I'm sure they do. as well as the Navajo Code Talkers, the Tuskegee Airmen, the Marines at Iwojima, and so many others, we salute them for their strong and in many cases heroic service to our country,

full stop, in many cases heroic like that. We do not view or highlight them through the prism of immutable characteristics, such as race, ethnicity, excuse me, or sex, et cetera, et cetera. Where do we start with this one? I mean, one of the greatest achievements in American public life was Harry Truman, President Truman, desegregating the military. Like, I mean, it has really lifted the lives of hundreds of thousands, millions of people touched it, you know, that, that mere order. And, yeah, man, I mean, I think it's obvious what to say here. I mean, there are a lot of figures in our country that maybe people might have some dispute over.

You could even quibble with, like, Muhammad Ali, the idea of him as a hero, right? Because there's some things in Muhammad Ali's biography and life story that are less flattering, even politically. But, man, Jackie Robinson, man, seriously, you know? Like, I was like, are we at the point in our country now where, you know, I mean, I know, I know. that they've backed off of this a little bit. But I mean, obviously they targeted him because of those immutable characteristics, correct? Yes. Apparently it was restored later, the article about Jackie Robinson.

But again, it was taken away and those were the statements that were issued when it was taken away. Right. It was not, whoops, how did this happen? Right. It's like, oh, that was a mistake. You were just going, he's an American hero. Just, just they said what we read that they said.

Right. Right. Yeah, man. I mean, it's just, I mean, I have a thought about, like, how do we even begin to repair all the information that is being lost, like, someday, too, right? Like, I mean, that is, we can't even every day, I'm like, I'll read about some sort of website or some sort of profile that has been eliminated on a federal website. And I'm like, man, there's just a tremendous hemorrhaging of lost information and data that is going on right now. So there's that, but like, the Jackie Robinson of it all. I mean, Major League Baseball retired his number.

Right? So he's like the one guy that we're supposed to all be able to agree on. And whoops, seems like maybe not. Information being lost and context being lost. Yeah. Because essentially what the Defense Department is saying in this statement, which is absolutely crazy, is that we can honor Jackie Robinson for his military service. We just can't mention that he was the first black player in Major League Baseball.

Right. That is essentially what they're saying. Right, right, right, right. We can honor him as a soldier like we would honor any other soldier. But then why would you honor him then? Because there's so many other soldiers, right? So, I mean, that kind of undercuts, again, then I guess at that point that you would just remove him. Because there would be no need to highlight Jackie Robinson in the military.

Here's a soundbite from Mina Kimes on Around the Horn covering the same territory. Jackie Robinson was known for many things, but above all, first and foremost, it was his ongoing courage in the face of racial discrimination. In fact, in addition to crossing the color barrier in baseball, he served in a segregated unit in the Army and in one instant refused to move to the back of the bus was arrested and acquitted. That matters. That history cannot be erased. It cannot be undone and it must be recognized to fully understand and celebrate his legacy. Thanks, me. Great message by Mina Kimes there. Let's also take note that she's doing it with crazy around the horn music and then a buzzer at the end.

Yeah. I mean, you got to do the shows. You got to do the show. You got to do the show. You got to do the show. We've already talked enough about around the horn. As you point out, this is not the only information being lost. This is an article about CNN's from CNN's Natasha Bertrand, Haley, Britsky, and Orrin Lieberman.

Articles about the Holocaust, September 11th. cancer awareness, sexual assault, and suicide prevention are among the tens of thousands either removed or flagged for removal from Pentagon websites, as the department has scrambled to comply with Secretary of Defense Pete Heggsus order to scrub diversity, quote unquote, content from all its platforms. I mean, it's going to, I mean, if it hasn't already happened, those websites have ceased to be a useful resource for the public now, right? Like, I mean, it's, I mean, that is effectively what it is that, like, you cannot trust our government agencies' websites to accurately reflect the story of their own founding and their role in America, right?

And that is, I mean, what do you do? Like, who becomes the keeper of our information then? Who becomes the keeper of the public domain in that? If you can't trust your government's website to tell the full story, right? Absolutely. And just thinking in, why is that story on the Department of Defense website to honor its history, but also to say Jackie Robinson, a true American hero was also a member of the military? You're trying to inspire people theoretically, right? Like you want to. Like we don't have compulsory service yet, right? Again, for our military. But you're trying to inspire people and say, hey, look, this could be like you. This guy did it too, right? Like you can be a part of this grand tradition that we have in the military guys. And if you strip it of that, I mean, what do you have left?

What are you selling people? And what is the vision that you're selling to the public about the military when you don't reflect the many heroes that have served in our army, right? There was a story from the AP earlier this month that photos of the Inola Gay were among the images marked for, deletion by that same defense department the annulague of course is the plane that dropped an atomic bomb on hiroshima right the plane was named after the pilot paul tibbitts's mother the Columbus dispatch went and found tibbitts his granddaughter who called the whole episode shameful this is the kind of thing we're doing right it is an absolutely insane and horrific scrubbing of history but also it's not even being carried out in the way that they want to carry it out

Absolutely. And look, you could actually make, there's an argument from the left to make about why you might want to scrub records of the another game, not celebrating, right? Well, just put it in a different context. Yeah, exactly, right? But they couldn't even do it that way. So, yeah, man, it pertains poorly for like how information gets around and our trust in our government to tell us the truth. I mean, fundamentally, this is also about, is our government going to tell us the truth about anything? Yes. Did Jeff Passen using the word ghouls remind you a little bit of the woge Josh Hawley moment? Oh man. Goals really gets people animated, man.

There's another, I'm not going to mention this person because I've had a very public beef with this person once. But they were animated by the idea that they were called a ghoul. It really, really hurt them. I mean, and Jeff, I love Jeff for that because he's just really, it's just such a point. word it can really get under somebody's skin right yeah because of that point of made earlier when people like that that are mostly going out and getting scoops mm-hmm mm-hmm showing that side of themselves oh yeah smile yeah yeah yeah all right headline number three Joel let me tell you March Madness is going on I don't think you need a Google alert or a news alert to tell you that I've I'm aware

I'm aware we'll talk to a little bit about March Madness is going on I think it's inarguable that it is smaller, culturally speaking, than it was a few decades ago. This is largely for happy reasons because basketball players do not have to entertain the idea of being a college player for more than one year, any years. But this idea that you were obliged to stay for three, even four years and provide free content every March and April for America. It was an awesome time to be a fan. It really was. Not joking about that, like watching those guys play,

you know, Grand Hill and Tim Duncan give you like tournament after tournament. But kids, you missed it, man. It was a hell of a thing. The Hoya Paranoia, you know, all that stuff.

Faslamma, jamma, man, it was a great time. Oh, gosh. I was thinking about that too. When Shoemaker and I were talking about Tom Izzo and Rick Petino on Monday,

like how many coaches were there that had something like, not 100%, but somewhere in the ballpark of 100% of just name ID among Americans. So I find that really interesting because I, and I'm going to look this up, but I believe Luke Carnaceco was once on an episode of The Cosby Show. Like that's how famous. And I was watching coming to America the other night, Ryan, sitting with my baby. You know what the sporting event that is highlighted in the story in the movie?

It's a basketball game, a St. John's. basketball game. Wow. Like the idea that they went to go see a St. John's game in Madison Square Garden. Not the Knicks. Not the Knicks. It was St. Johns at Madison Square. These tickets to go see that game was a big deal for Hakeem.

Of course, he wanted to sit next to Lisa McDowell, but we don't have to get into all that. I was just thinking, like, if we did a poll, if we could somehow figure this out, do you think Dan Hurley, you just won two national championships in a row, has more name ID in America today than forget Bobby Knight, forget John Thompson, forget Dean's Smith, then Digger Phelps had 25 years ago. Oh my God. That's a great question. I don't think so. I don't think so, man. Not at all. On the upside for March Madden's, a couple of things I think have helped to maintain a great deal of its place in the culture. One is obviously legalized gambling. Right. It was always legalized gambling when you're filling out brackets. Now it's gambling.

And we know what gamblers like, which is a lot of games. Here's a lot of things to bet on. Here's a lot of fun to have. So it's that has helped. I think there's also something. And I noticed this with the Summer Olympics last year. Summer Olympics are happening from happening in France last year. Also Tahiti, speaking of Colin Jost.

And it was funny because normally that would have been a terrible headache for NBC. Right. because oh my gosh stuff is happening in daytime in the united states you're having to show a primetime audience a package of things that have already happened that are weirdly date shifted and sort of late and everybody already knows the results but what was funny is thanks to streaming people could watch stuff all day our minds have been changed so that we just like give us content oh something's new happening great i will watch that i will watch i will watch gold zone here we go let's do it They also figured out creative ways like that to show it.

And I think, and I think this is not a small part of this at all, people work at home now. Yeah. There was a time in American life where you could not sit in your office and watch television all day. Dude, the big thing and everybody romanticizes this time every year around this time of year was sitting in a classroom and having the cool-ass teacher who rode the TV in to your classroom with the match madness stuff on, right? Yeah. Maybe you'd have to go to the library. Right. If you were creative.

But even then, you'd get one feed on CBS. Right. It wasn't, it was not, you know, four different games at one time kind of thing. Maybe you get a live look in if you were lucky. No, no. I mean, again, like, I mean, I joke about this all the time, but you can, you can literally watch every game Creighton plays on TV. You know, like, which is like, that's just that's something that was possible. Yeah, you can watch Creighton all the time.

They're good now, too. Yeah. And if you're like working at home, you can do. kind of whatever you want during the day. Absolutely. And again, this was not the way the world worked 30 years ago. And March Madness, especially that opening Thursday, Friday, what a great time to work at home.

Oh, my God, absolutely. You're like, oh, I'm going to be, I'm sick. I'm going to be sick on Thursday, right? You know, I'm not going to be able to make it today, guys. I got a cough. Well, you know, my friend, Bumani Jones mentioned this, I'm not going to take it from him. But I think there's a few things to play.

And one, I mean, obviously the great ones are gone, right? Like, you just don't get to be Patrick Ewing or Tim Duncan or even Randolph Childress anymore. Like, I mean, Randolph Childress probably be the most famous player in tournament if he was in it right now. We're a one sport country now, right? It's in it. It's football. Like, we care about football. Football takes over the airwaves and the headlines.

It gets it all. And everybody else kind of has to take the scraps, right? I think so. I think we're invested, especially when you think about football, it's not over overwhelmingly, not just overwhelmingly our most popular sport, but it's the one we still care about in terms of teams, like who's winning, that kind of stuff. I think with Marsh Madness, it kind of, and it's kind of always been this way. It's like, it's a big thing. It's big sports golden corral buffet. Yeah.

There's sports on. Yeah, right. And especially as we've gotten later in the day where you're like, I don't know all these players. I don't know these coaches in the way that I used to. He said, so that feels different than football. Right. In that way. Do you know any college basketball players right now?

Can you name like three of them? Cooper flag. Of course. All right. We're not counting our alma maters. Do you think you can get to three? I know that Ron Harper's kid played for records, but they're not in the tournament. This is going to sound crazy.

And I mean, I know more players. Masterpiece on Mercy Miller pays for the top-seated university of Houston. and Cougars. He comes on the bench for them. Should we have studied this? Like I studied for the Kanye song question? I think so. Yeah. We didn't hold ourselves out to be experts on this either. No. I don't really have always part of college sports, right? Like, you know, if you and I are watching, if we sit down a week one next year and watch

Georgia, how many players are we going to be able to name week one on that squad and on a top five team? Yeah. And we like college football better. You get into it eventually. Although, you know, I am a guy that gets those, you know, the preseason magazines and stuff. So I kind of, that's my reading in the summer. So I'm not going to, but I think especially with college basketball, coaches were, coaches were the wrestling villain in those things. You know, how many times?

And you'd just be sitting with somebody who wasn't even a fan. They'd be like, I hate Coach K. Raleigh Masamino, Wimp Sanderson, Tark. You know what I mean? Gosh, Tark. Turing on the towel. Why is Tark doing that? Then you'd explain.

He always does that. Those guys were the lightning rods. And those were the John Feinstein subjects, by the way. Yeah. Writing about, hey, Coach K is a Republican, Dean Smith as a Democrat. Like, there were all these interesting little character, I don't know, quirks is the right word, character qualities of those guys. Bobby Knight had a billion of them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that not even, I mean, and we really saw a loss. Like, really, I mean, it's kind of funny how quickly Coach K has faded from public view. He has. You'll see him pop up on, like, is he, does he have a serious show? Or is he just, if I just seen weird clips of him on serious? That's a great question. We should look it up.

I don't know if I would listen to it. But if he does that one of them. How many ex-coaches can we name that have serious shows? Let's do that for the next one of them. He's former college school. Oh my goodness. He's got a podcast. Another basketball story for you.

NBC is bringing back inside stuff. Okay. This comes to us from Jessica Golden and Almond. like Sherman over at CNBC. The NBA is quietly preparing to bring back its iconic show. We might be able to debate that at some other time, whether it's iconic is exactly the word. Or quietly.

I mean, we talk about it. It's the NBC. Golden and Sherman continue. NBC is considering bringing back a refreshed version of the program, according to a person familiar with the matter. NBC will once again air live NBA games next season after losing the broadcast rights in 2002.

Do you watch inside stuff on Saturday mornings when you were growing up? Willow Bay, Ahmad Rashid. Hell, yeah. Like, I mean, I don't remember watching it closely, but I remember it being glad that it was on when it was on. Like, it just, it was good background noise to have as a kid, right? Saturday morning was kind of like the NCAA tournament

where it didn't matter so much what was on. You might have had your favorites, but it just kind of rolled. Mm-hmm. It was actually more like streaming where just you finished with something and something else started and you just be like, okay, sure, let's watch this. I would be so.

mad because the Smurfs came on at like 6 a.m. I couldn't get up in time for that. Then there's the Looney Tunes. And then you would get into like the later part of the day. It would be like solid gold would be on it. Then Kung Fu, Kung Fu TV shows. You know what I mean? So yeah, Saturday mornings. Can I tell you the creation story of inside stuff real quick? Please. I went back to Dick Ebersoll's memoir for this. And this is fascinating to me. Dick Ebersault's 1989, he's negotiating with David Stern to get the NBA on NBC. It had been on CBS during the 80s during the Magic and Larry years. He wants to get it to NBC and he says, I brought up another idea too.

At the time, the FCC had very stringent rules about what kinds of programming the networks could install on Saturday mornings because children were the main audience watching the shows, even the cartoons, had to be educational in some way. Huh. So what if we were to do this? I pitched him. This is Ebersolda Stern. What if we produced a weekly basketball highlight show geared toward young people in one of those slots?

There would be profiles of players, instructive segments. I was laying out all the pieces for the show that eventually became Inside Stuff. David loved it. So Inside Stuff was an advertising vehicle for the NBA that was smuggled onto television as an educational tool. So it's really smart. We're teaching kids about basketball here, right? They're learning stuff. And of course, what you're really doing is making them into NBA fans. Oh, yeah. I mean, and it worked like a charm. I mean, you get to see the behind the scenes of,

I felt like Shaq broke a goal in an inside stuff segment once. Like, you know, like on the set with him. Well, you know, it was like, you know, Amad Rashad, you know, got out in his biker shorts and short shorts and a tank top, pretending to guard Shaq. And I Shack posted him up and dunked and broke the goal. Maybe that was just, maybe that was TV. But it was like the sort of thing that, you know, yeah, it was really, really smart programming. And yeah, the NBA held a different place in American culture in the 90s. I don't know if inside stuff is responsible for that, but I definitely think it raised a whole new generation of NBA fans, so for sure.

Which is an interesting question now. It's like, it feels fun to bring all this stuff back for nostalgia. feels fun to bring John Tesh's round ball rock back but is there anything that a rebooted inside stuff could not teach a kid that five minutes playing an NBA video game

or I mean dude I mean there's so many random and this is probably the result of my algorithm on Instagram so many random NBA clips like they'll be like Vernon Maxwell hated the Utah Jazz in 1991 and there'll be a little clip of that

and like that kind of stuff is already out there You can get it at your fingertips right now if you want it. So will people tune in to watch it? I don't. I just cannot imagine any use for this show. It's like it feels good. It's fun to have the NBA on NBC back. But seriously,

you're going to go watch Jason Williams as a problem clips on Twitter. Like that's what people are going to do. They're going to watch YouTube stuff. Like that's there's almost nothing a show could teach us that you could not learn from something like that. I will say too, just thinking about this, and I wonder if Dick talks about it in the book, you can let me know. I mean, in the 80s, man, the NBA was coming out of an era where the people were really wary of NBA players. You know, it was a very Black League. There was a very big drug issue going throughout the league. My favorite team, the Houston Rockets, were decimated by drug suspensions in like 1986 and 87.

right so you could see how like preparing you know getting family friendly stories and like you know the sort of charismatic faces of the league in front of kids and their parents was probably also very useful um and building that league up right absolutely absolutely and again delivering the message to kids that you want to deliver to kids without any interference from the mainstream media It's a mod and willow straight from their mouths to you. Do you remember when Saturday morning cartoons had to be educational? I see that. I was, I did not.

Was Bugs Bunny educational? Well, here's what the, here was the move. So you had 29 and a half minutes of G.I. Joe characters firing guns at each other. And in the final 30 seconds, I don't remember if this was after the closing credits or right before. Maybe it was after you came back from the final commercial. But the final 30 seconds would be a kid encountering a problem in real life and then a G.I. Joe character, let's say roadblock coming up to the kid and helping himself it. Here's G.I. Joe educational material. Really? Is that how the Jesse Spano caffeine pills episode of Saved by the Bill happened now? It might have. You want to hear, you want to hear G.I.J.O. audio?

Yeah. Please. Oh, my God. Of course. Is your mom there? No, I'm home alone. Well, you won a prize. What's your address? A 42 Oak Street. Hey, Roblox, some strangers bringing me a prize. A stranger, huh?

All he wanted to bring you was trouble. Remember, never tell anyone your home alone and never give anyone your address. I'll say, mom can't come to the phone. Smart thinking. Now I know. And knowing is half the battle. G.I. Joe.

That left the impression on me. I didn't answer the door for strangers. Also, that, I just, as a note, that beat is kind of fire. I don't know if there are any music producers out there, but they need to get on that thing, because that, that's a good freestyle beat if they want to, if they want to repurpose it someday. Yeah, I'll also love the voice of that child abductor.

That was some amazing voice work there on the telephone. Is there mommy and daddy home? We have got, I mean, does, is there a behind-the-scenes story of the making of the GI Joe or something? I mean, I just, we've got that. I'm sure. Knowing us half the best. That's true.

All right, Joe, before we go, let's talk about the great Chicago fire. Or should I say buyout? I guess when losing a media job, I guess a buyout is better than a layoff, but it still means you lost your job. Yeah, man. And this is what's happening in Chicago. There's a Chicago Sun Times story by David Roder. It reads like this, 30 employees of these Sun Times, around one in five on its payroll, have agreed to resign. under buyout terms, the paper's

non-profit ownership offered in hopes of stanching, there's only a journalism word, persistent financial deficits. People taking the buyouts, Joel, include sports columnist, Rick Tellender, and Rick Morrissey. Check out some of these numbers,

too, Bears beatwriter Mark Potash, leaving the paper after 38 years. Oh, man. White Sox beat writer, Darrell Van Scowen, leaving the paper after 37 years. columnist critic Richard Roper, Ebert's former sparring partner on television,

also gone after 37 years. And it goes on from there. columnist Michael Sneed, advice columnist, Ismail Perez. Neil Steinberg, another columnist, is staying,

which is good news because he starred in the Sun-Times ad I had to watch to Access Rotor's article on the website. Now, usually when we're talking about newspaper sadness,

this is where we pivot to talking about the news, newspaper's owner. The billionaire who suddenly Trump curious or the hedge fund that's bleeding the paper dry. This is a little bit of a different situation because the Sun Times is owned by Chicago public media, which also owns the public radio station WBEZ, which people might know from this American life or wait, wait, don't tell me. And as Roder writes in the Sun Times, the operations of the Sun Times and WBEZ were combined

in 2022. And he continues, the idea was to unite WBEZ's fundraising prowess. We all know the public TV, public radio fundraising

machine with the Sun Times' far larger audience. Now, that doesn't absolve the Sun Times management of any criticism here.

Right now, Chicago Public Media is run by Melissa Bell, formerly a Vox. And Rota writes, her manner and tactics have drawn criticism

them from employees in a workforce that is heavily unionized. Sometimes newsroom staffers who are members of the Chicago News Guild criticized Bell for pressing for buyouts while ignoring a management structure they view as top heavy. From the reaction on your face, you seem to have something to say about this? Oh, God. What can I say about this? Well, I know Melissa personally because, one, she was my wife's boss when they were both at Vox. And before, I came here to the...

the ringer. I had some informal conversations with them about going to WBZ and Chicago sometimes and so it was an undefined role, very preliminary talks, did not come to pass. So yeah, well, I mean, I'm happy where I'm at. I personally, like Melissa, I did not have a chance to work for her, so I will have to, you know, refrain from commenting on that. But I should put that on the table right now so people know where I'm coming from. So yeah, that's what you saw in my face right there. Back in 2021, the former CEO of Chicago Public Media was asked by journalist Mark Jacob about this. Because they had said, no, we're not going to have any layoffs and said, Mark Jacob said, what about buyouts? And the former CEO whose name is Matt Moog said, this is a George Bush read my lips moment.

Turns out to be just like the other George Bush read my lips moment. I mean, that's just. I mean, did he not know that George Bush then? did agree to a tax increase. I mean, I, I mean, maybe he's not familiar with the news. I don't have a problem. One point I want to make here before we go. I never, I try to always resist when you have something like this happened at the

Sun Times of doing the cheap thing of like, whatever happened to the paper of Roger Ebert and Mike Royko. Like that is so gone. That is so not a thing anymore. It's not happening right now. That is not fair to the people who are. are left there or even the people that are trying to fix the paper. We understand that that's not coming back.

What I do miss is the not so distant time when a newspaper could have young people on its staff and it could have older people on its staff. You learned so much as a young reporter under those circumstances. I remember being in the newsroom with Randy Galloway, dude, you know, who's a longtime Fort Worth Star sports columnist, the legend. John, let me tell you some stories about the Rangers in 1973. I do, man, Bob Ray Sanders, you know, all these guys, all these folks, you know what I mean? Like, and you, it's a real good feedback because, I mean, I presumably some of the older guys may have learned something from us too, right?

Like the younger kids, right? Absolutely, right? You need the young people to come in full of ambition. Energy. Fresh ideas. Yeah. A different viewpoint. You need them to look at the old people and be like, if only we could get rid of the

these people who write in the same column for the 50th time and get some new young blood in here. But then if you're a Chicago newspaper, if Mike Dick here were to die, you need somebody who is not only familiar with the 85 bears, but maybe who talked to Mike Dickie, who interviewed, who covered Mike Dickett in the moment to be there at that moment, right, to write the O bit, to provide the context. I mean, that is, that was one of the magical things about newspapers. There was room for just about everybody. I know. You said they had 150 employees.

I was, I mean, at first I was like, man, that's not a lot of people. And then I was like, well, for the second newspaper in that town, maybe that is actually not that that's a pretty good staffing. That would have been a pittance back in the day. But man, I mean, it sounds to me, and I, well, you know what, I don't even want to put that out there. But there's not very many major cities with two newspapers anymore. That's all I'll just say.

And I just wonder if maybe those days are rapidly coming. to close all together. All right. He is Joel Anderson. I'm Brian Curtis. Produxie Magic by Brian Waters. Joel, I'm about to go on vacation for two weeks. Let me tell you. Thank you to everyone who sent me like Flagstaff dining recommendations.

Oh, really? I use a little St. George, Utah, Vegas off the strip, whatever you got. We're going across the great American Southwest. So jealous. It's in a magenta minivan. And by the way, when I check in with you on day three, day four will evaluate whether you are in fact jealous of that moment. This is fair.

This is fair. It's a certain kind of hedged jealousy. Like that sounds awesome, but. I mean, you know, you'll get to see it. Have you ever been to that part of the country before? I have, but it's been a really long time. Like, I went to the Grand King when I was the second grade. It's like one of my first road trips with my grandparents and my mom and, you know,

fun. This is lovely. I'm looking forward to going back. Send pictures. The press box will continue, however. We got some fun shows coming up. And then we're going to be on our same Monday, Thursday schedule. I'll give you a little tease here.

Monday, March 24th, I have an interview with Graydon Carter that is going to be in this feed. That Graydon Carter, who edited Vanity Fair and the New York Observer and Spy, who hired Christopher Hitchens to come right for Vanity Fair. Man, there are so many stories in this podcast. You're going to really enjoy that. Fascinating. That's Monday.

Then Thursday, March 27. Joel, you have some special guest. Do you care to tease who those are going to? going to be? I just got word from one of them. He said, it's a he. I'm in. If you're familiar with the Ringer podcast network, he's on it. And I'm really, people have been wanting us to have a conversation for a very long time. And so I'm, I'm excited to see that we'll probably be able to make that work. Oh my God. I am so excited too. Monday, March 31st, Joel and I are going to have our next episode in our 25 or 25 series about publications we've lost.

in this century. I was doing my write-ups for Talk Magazine and Sports on Earth yesterday. This is going to be a very interesting and very rich episode, and I think will give us a sense of just what kind of publications have gone by the wayside over the last 25 years, how this business has changed. And then Thursday, April 3rd, Joel's back with more surprise guests. You want to tease those? I mean, so I kind of just really want to surprise them, but for the Thursday, April 3rd, I hope that people will be delighted to hear us. There'll be a few of us on the mic that day. That's an excellent tease.

All right, y'all. Can I wait to talk to you when I'm back? Yeah, man, have fun, buddy. I can't wait to see you when you get back.