The Press Box - Alive Girl: The Jeff Bezos Saga | Jam Session (Ep. 564)

Episode Date: January 24, 2019

Jeff Bezos announced two weeks ago that he and his wife were getting a divorce; shortly afterward, the National Enquirer published a report of his affair that included some racy text messages (1:46). Cardi B is being vocal about her political beliefs (34:41), Leonardo DiCaprio flies JetBlue (42:09), and a false article about Miley Cyrus being pregnant reminds us which celebrity news sources we can and cannot trust (43:44). Hosts: Amanda Dobbins and Juliet Litman Read Kate Knibbs on the Jeff Bezos divorce here. Read Alyssa Bereznak on blind items here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. Here are a couple pieces to check out on the ringer.com before the end of the week. First up is Kevin O'Connor, who's writing about how the Denver Nuggets built a contender in a warrior's world. Then Chris Ryan and Justin Barrier have a rational conversation about Anthony Davis and the trade deadline. And finally, Robert Mays has 10 observations from the first Patriots Rams Super Bowl.

Once again, you can check those articles out and tons more on the ringer.com. Welcome to Jam Session. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. In Porting Newsbrook, shortly after we recorded our last jam session two weeks ago, and that's the divorce of Jeff Bezos and McKenzie Bezos, followed by the revelation that he was likely having an affair with news broadcaster Lauren Sanchez. Was or is?

Is, likely. Allegedly. None of that's actually completely confirmed. That's true, but the fact that this happened two weeks ago means that we have a lot of data. A lot. We have a lot of data and information and things to discuss and also some ethical issues surrounding said data. We've got a lot. We're going to go deep. We're going to go deep. Yeah, on this. And then we'll also hit on some other recent topics, Cardi B, taken social media by storm. And Miley Cyrus, not pregnant.

Mary, but not pregnant. Yes. All right. Let's get into it. Okay. So where do you want to begin with the affair of, I shouldn't call it the affair, of the situation of Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez? Well, let's start with the statement. Okay. Okay. Issued on January 9th by Jeff Bezos. and his now estranged wife, Mackenzie Bezos. Yes. I don't like the first name of McKenzie. It's nothing to do with her or her fault, but just not a name I support. Okay.

That's good to know. Maybe in the next chapter of her life, she will hear that and reinvent herself. Change it out. Yeah. Anyway, a joint statement was issued. I'll quote from it briefly. It was an image of text shared to his Twitter account. But not the NoSAP.

Notably. In fact, it's a font that looks similar. You were ever been to an Amazon bookstore? Unfortunately, yes. All the placards are like in a similar font, but not the same font. I didn't notice that because the Amazon bookstore was just a pretty existential. Yeah, I needed, I went. Which one did you go to?

I went to the one in the Westfield Century City Mall. Yeah. After I went to Dintai Fung. Of course. Great day. To buy my mother a copy of salt, fat, acid heat for Christmas. Do they have it? They did have it even though it was basically out of stock on Amazon.com.

Oh, interesting. The only time that, you know, a brick and mortar. store has beaten Amazon, was in Amazon's own store. Can I share a really brief aside? Yeah, I'd love to. The other day I was kind of bored, and I was like, what should I do? And I just like Googled Bookstores Los Angeles to see all of my options. There weren't that many, and it saddens me deeply that in like this new great mall,

the only one they have is the Amazon bookstore. I couldn't agree more. Have we, have you heard this rant? You've heard this rant for me before. Yeah. Let's do it. You know what? It's our freaking podcast.

And this is about Amazon. And this is in many ways what Amazon has wrought and why this. and why this story is newsworthy and not just tabloids and we'll get all to it. So let's find. Let's go. Let's talk about how all freaking bookstores in LA sucks. There's nowhere to go. It's really hard.

And I was just in New York for two months where like you just trip and you end up in an independent bookstore. There is one bookstore that is near your home. Yes. And I'm not going to name it because in my personal life, I have basically been banned from A going to this bookstore or B, complaining about it. Because my husband is like you just have to learn your lesson. this bookstore isn't for you. And it's just not how LA works and you have to get past it. But it just, it's the one self-appointed hipster bookstore on the east side of Los Angeles.

They never have anything in stock except for a freaking reissue of a Joan Didion book and Naomi Klein book and then whatever cookbook. Sometimes you just want a novel and you can't walk into a store and buy a goddamn novel in Los Angeles. So I went there on Friday when I was like, I need something a little light to read. Like everything's just a little too much right now. And I really wanted like some top tier chicklet, like an Eleanor Oliphon. It's completely fine. Or like even in Jojo Moise, which I think they had like a few, but I'd read all the ones they had.

Right. They have no back list. They don't have a, and there just wasn't in like most bookstores, independent bookstores and obviously Barnes & Noble too, have like the mass market geared towards women, women, read it in. two to three days books and that was really what I wanted. And so I didn't get it. I ended up buying French Exit by Patrick DeWitt and my sister the serial killer by the woman whose name I forget. And I'm really excited to be both of them. And I mean, in French Exit and I really like it. But these are like way too like nourishing and like edifying. They're not the kind of like like, like, like, breezy read I was looking for. And it's really fucking annoying.

Reading can just be for pleasure. It's like sometimes we read to learn all the time. Yeah. Sometimes we read to improve ourselves and sometimes we just read for pleasure. And they refuse to acknowledge it. I once went in, I'm sorry, this is so wild, but also I'm just, this is our podcast, okay? I once went in to try to buy the latest J.K. Rowling, a mystery novel. Do you know about these? She writes a series under the pen name Robert Gailbrath. Yes, I've heard they're quite good. They're fantastic. I really recommend them. There are four of them now. The third one, but the other three are dynamite, and she's a really gifted writer. And she also understands that sometimes you're just reading for a story and Amis fear and because you just want to know what happens.

I went in after, it was, it's literally a J.K. Rowling book. It's like the book industry. Probably the most famous living writer. Friken built on J.K. Rallying books. And I go in to pay full price for the hardcover and support my local bookstore. Didn't have it. Didn't have it. It's really annoying.

It really makes me sad. This is Amazon's fault. It is Amazon's fault because they have forced remaining bookstores, which I actually are like doing well. And the independent bookstore scene, while I wouldn't say is like a bonanza is healthy and thriving in many cities, many urban centers. But they have forced them into being these highly curated, like, Tweed, literary, like little havens for a certain type of reader. And they don't have any backlist because people just buy that shit on Amazon, be included. But like, I've been forced into it by many factors.

Anyway. Wait, can I do just say one more book thing that I've just been wanting to tell you personally? I read normal people by Sally Rooney and two days I'm freaking loved it. It was really good. Juliet gave me her copy of normal people, which she ordered from Amazon. Amazon.com.com. Because it was not available. It's not yet available in the U.S. It is tremendous.

I also read conversations with friends. What should you like more? At Juliet's request in the span of two days, Sally Rooney is where it's at. We, like every other woman in America, recommend it. You know what? I ended up liking normal people a little bit more. I think I might be in the minority of liking conversations with friends more. I really liked them both, and I'm glad I read them conversations with friends first.

And then normal people. I think that there was something, we'll do a different actual books podcast. There's something about the Bobby character and conversations with friends that I'm sifting through and I think says more about me and my relationship to female friendships than the book itself. But I want to talk more about that with you. Anyway, great. I really love them both. I'm really glad. They're really beautiful, beautiful. Actually, you know, I had just finished normal people, I think. And that's when I was like, I need something light and breezy. Because I love her books, but they're really like overwhelming. And I'd also read like just a lot of. of like intense stuff. Yes. Whatever. Anyway, back to Amazon. Okay. So we have to have all these emotional fraught conversations about bookstores because

Amazon has like really changed the book landscape and Jeff Bezos, his own life, the only his own landscape was changing as well. So back to him. And the reason we started talking about this just to work all the way back is the announcement they released, the font looked similar to the placards at the Amazon bookstore. That was a really all-time detour for months. We're still listening. We love you. Thank you so much for being here on this journey. So, I'm going to read this now. We want to make people aware of a development in our lives.

As our family and close friends know, after a long period of loving exploration and trial separation, we have decided to divorce and continue our shared lives as friends. All right. There's some more stuff about how they support each other and friends, whatever. But so here's, this is important. after a long period of loving exploration and trial separation, we have decided to divorce. So what they're saying here is that they're trying to cover the fact that things have been bad for a while. And also some news is about to come out in the National Enquirer, which it does. I have a question for you. Yes. Where does this rank for you in terms of the goop announcement of conscious uncoupling?

This has, because of the subsequent scandal, hasn't gotten quite as much attention, but this is like some pretty good. it's like speechifying in a divorce announcement. Well, nothing will ever equal conscious uncompleting for me. Received in your email. May I share a quick anecdote about conscious uncoupling? It's a day of tangents. I remember exactly where I was. It was when I was working in New York Magazine,

and I was in kind of the newsroom at New York Magazine when the email arrived. I was at Grantland. And I was not far from my friend and the extremely talented journalist, Norian Malone, who is still at New York. New York Magazine. And Maureen. Writing bangers, I might say. Norrine, I seek out everything that Norrine writes or edits. She is tremendously talented. Her piece on the skin was really good. Yes. She also wrote a piece about a podcast that I literally had never heard of until her piece, but it was a- Oh yeah. What was that one called? The Red Scare podcast or something.

It's like for online teens. Yeah, have never listened to it. But I thought that she did a tremendous job explaining it and putting it in the podcast sphere. Anyway, Noreen, in addition to being a tremendously talented journalist, is also a good fan and has been for a long time. And I, I just vividly remember, I screamed, I don't even know if I said words. I just kind of gasped and, like, started flapping my arms at Noreen. And Noreen came over and also looked at the computer and started gasping. And we were kind of, we were making nonverbal noises to the point that everyone else in the newsroom thought that like a major world event had happened.

Like something had gone terribly wrong. Like they were just like, what's going on? And then one of us finally managed to say, Gwyneth divorce, Gwyneth divorce. I'll never forget it as long as I live. It was a moment with Noreen that I really cherish. So that, I mean, that was peak ridiculous. They invented a whole new term.

It's true. I think... It actually gives us a frame of reference for thinking about Jeff Bezos. It's like the er text. And now everything else that comes with it, like is part of that genre. But it defined a new genre, basically. Which, you know... Of online communication.

Credit credit for that. I think you could write a PhD dissertation. on this. Online communications and love in the digital era. Maybe we can start just like a separate jam session PhD, where we just write the dissertations ourselves. That sounds great. To me, this is more interesting in terms of PR management and manipulation because it was released only because of the National Inquirer story, which broke very quickly thereafter

and was quite salacious, which we'll talk about. But they are trying to get ahead of a story and also trying to deflect from some pretty narly text messages that Jeff Bezos sent to someone who was not his wife. It sucks. Norley isn't the right word. I think it just is, it's hard to imagine, I mean, I'm not married, nor close to it, but it's hard to imagine that you could be married to someone for 25 years and even if you, even if it's true, they've mutually decided to separate or whatever, that you could feel

anything other than like various shades of upset and like betrayed at your still legal husband, like engaging in deep thoughts and dickpicks with someone who's not you. Yeah, it's a betrayal and it's humiliating. It's like, you know, and we'll talk a little bit about the fact that we have access to all of these sex messages. And I'm going to read them because I've read them and a live girl is seared in my brain now. But it is a violation of privacy. It's certainly a violation of privacy for McKenzie Vesos.

It's embarrassing. It's humiliating. I think we're also going to talk a lot about the other players in this divorce. But these are the actions of Jeff Bezos. He is responsible for all of this. And it's important to keep that in mind while we're talking about everyone else. He is the one who did all the gross stuff. Sure.

Including sending dick pics to someone who's not his wife. Which maybe. Maybe it was not a secret. Maybe McKenzie Bezos knew about it. Yeah, I was going to say marriages are different. Yeah, everyone. It's hard to say. Float your, you know, do what floats your boat.

Let's talk about these text messages because they were printed in the National Enquirer. It doesn't seem like this was a hacking situation. It seems like they were leaked. Since it came, it seems like they were leaked because Lauren Sanchez, it subsequently has been applied by various media outlets. Page 6 on the Inquirer, I've really been leading the way on this, that she like shared the text messages, like maybe screenshot of them and sent them to a friend or something like that. or perhaps her husband somehow got like screenshots of them or something like that. Her husband, Patrick Weitzel,

who is a extremely powerful agent in Hollywood. There's been no indication to hack, more likely a leak. And that's really important because the National Enquirer has been breaking news in terms of affairs for like a really long time, most famously Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton.

And then John Edwards. Yeah. And so kind of like we always talk about how TMZ knows how to do stuff legally, so does the National Enquirer. Like ethically questionable at best, but still legal, basically. So to the text messages, which were in the National Enquirer, should I read them or shall you? I'm happy to.

I just was reading. I'm going to try and then I started laughing. Okay, let me do this one. I love you, a live girl, which is probably, you know, a live girl has become the two-word summary of this particular scandal. It's the alive girl scandal. All right. I love you alive girl. I will show you with my body and my lips and my eyes very soon. Jeff Bezos text to Lauren Sanchez.

He went on? Yeah. I want to smell you. I want to breathe you in. I want to hold you tight. I want to kiss your lips. I love you. I am in love with you. That's a heartbreaker for Mac Bezos. That's a tough one. He also said, you know what I want? I want to get a little drunk with you tonight. Not falling down. Just a little drunk. I want to talk to you and plan with you. listen and laugh. That's the kind of thing a Will Ferrell character would say in like old school too. Yeah, I mean, these are modern corny love letters, not sex messages, which is in many ways, like more heartbreaking than a really raunchy text, although apparently those were sent as well.

There are apparently visuals that accompany many of these. But yeah, it's funny. I was, I think I mentioned last week. I rewatched the Sex and the City movie recently. Great movie. But as you remember, the climactic big plot of that line is that he sends her love letters from different people every day because he can't be bothered to write his own, which I kind of thought was weak sauce until I read what powerful rich men in 2018 now think are text messages or love letters? I've always been a sucker for the big romantic letters. Yeah, anyway. It's a classic trope.

It's a very, you know, a serenial variation. I'm into it. So he sent like all these emotional text messages. It sucked. And then he all sent dick pics. So, yes, there's clearly evidence of a relationship here. Do we know the arrangement between Bezos McKenzie and whether it was over, whether there was a separation, we don't have any knowledge of that? It certainly all seems a bit shady just because it's in the National Inquirer.

Yeah, and Kate Nibs were about this for our website. or she ordered the whole thing, why it's relevant. But she also importantly touched on many commentators online questioning why the National Enquirer went after this story anyway because they said they spent like four months on it, thousands of dollars, like really elaborate. A lot of money spent like following him. And the inquirer is owned by David Pecker,

who is a friend of Donald Trump. Yes. And... Though is he now because I believe he was granted immunity in the ongoing investigation to divulge information about Donald Trump. Sure. That's true. Very tangled web. But anyway, there's that. But perhaps he's trying to win back some favor. Anyway, Jeff Bezos obviously owns the Washington Post and Trump hates the post. It's an enemy of his. He, you know, tweets about it.

Yeah, he's been pretty outspoken. Yes. I think it's important to know that Kate and Kate's piece, I thought, made a pretty good argument that that really isn't in play or isn't the only reason that this is newsworthy. Because, you know, I'm looking at a piece in the New York Times business section from just. January 18th. The headline is why Jeff Bezos's divorce should worry Amazon investors. Jeff Bezos and his wife McKenzie had been married for 25 years. There is no pre-up, as we know. And this is also just a major disruption in his life. And he is so rich and so powerful and controls so much of the internet and the infrastructure in America. There was a piece recently, I believe, on Gizmodo that was like, I just tried to get Amazon out of my life and I couldn't. Yeah, it's really hard. It's so seeped into the way that Americans live and work every single day.

I mean, more than any service, if you use the Internet, you're using an Amazon product. So many websites, including hours, run on Amazon Web Services. Have you noticed that it's in the last couple months, Amazon Web Services itself has started doing really aggressive advertising? I have noticed that, like for cloud computing and whatever. It's a huge, huge business for them. Yeah, but it's interesting because those commercials are in the, the vein of they're not quite apologetic, but they're certainly trying to do PR and be like, we're your friendly web service.

You love us and trying to target, I guess, some of the suspicion against Amazon and the ways in which it just has kind of monopolized. It's just like, it's the kind of company that in like the sort of peak post-war boom, like would sort of like provide for everything. And that just means something different in the 21st century than it did in like. like 1949, but it's just like, it's a mammoth company that is a part of so many facets of the way you live. I mean, and they just buy up properties all the time. Like, I'm buying ring was like a really big deal. I say that because I have so much guilt over using my, my ring doorbell.

And there's just like, it's just, it's really complicated. Like he is, he is, though not a politician, like as powerful, if not more so than than many of them. Yes, and is involved in all of it. and has a record of doing anything at all to make a big a profit. To make as much money as he possibly can, which makes just the business arrangement between Jeff Bezos and his wife. It will affect other businesses. Incredibly relevant. Yeah. So that's why this is in the news.

And it seems like, I don't know if it's reckless, but sort of engaging in an affair or it has a very obvious paper trail now. And we, again, we don't know the situation between him and McKenzie. or between Lauren Centres and her husband Patrick Weitzel. But, like, it's kind of rockless. And now there's all this collateral damage. And we would like to talk with the Lauren Sanchez-Patrick-Waidsel side of things. Yes, we really would. So Patrick Weitzel may be not the most famous household name,

one of the co-founders of William Morris, which is now William Morris Endeavor. Or with the merger, he was like a major piece part of it. The William Morris Endeavor merger, partners with Ari Emanuel, et cetera. He's like a really powerful Hollywood agent, the kind that, like, also in an earlier decade they would have like made movies about or whatever. And he and Lauren Sanchez have two kids together. They've been married for like 21 years, I think. And there's some speculation that maybe he was involved in some of the reporting National Enquirer did. But there's no evidence of it whatsoever. There's a lot of speculation about how all this wound up in the National Enquirer just, I think,

because it's such a big deal. And I think a lot of people thought that Jeff Bezos was someone that was untouchable to an extent. So the fact that, all of this deeply embarrassing, if not incriminating evidence, is on record just seems like someone screwed up or someone engineered against him because how else would this happen? Do you think he's in like take up Snapchatting? So there's no trail? Cyberdust, smart humans at service. Something like that. It's pretty, the whole thing is pretty wild. The screenshots are tough. That's a, that's a mistake. Big time. That's why you got to take it to the disappearing media.

Yeah, that's true. It was invented for cheaters. And I, you know, I think also the friends who allegedly gave away the screenshots or the real. Yeah, so the real snakes. That's horrible. Can we spend some time on Lauren Sanchez's dating history? Yes. It's quite a list.

Yes. So we should know. She married Patrick Whitesell in 2005. Oh, sorry. Apparently. Less time than I. 14 years, basically. Yeah.

Well, it's, that's only important just because we're going to talk about. some of the other things that happened before then, which, you know, with things like this... We're trying to shame her. It's just all the info. Yeah. Live your life and do what you want. It's just there are a lot of notable people. To some. Not to you, really. Yeah, this is funny. Before this, we were, I was just kind of identifying what kind of athlete each of these people were. Yeah. Because I don't really know. But it's a lot of, a lot of notable names that are involved in this. Let's just read them off.

Yeah. Okay. So she, first, sort of like first noted boyfriend is Anthony Miller, who played in the Super Bowl, former NFL players. They got engaged after a four-year relationship. They had met in 1996. Then they split after one and a half years of being engaged. He said, I couldn't really trust her. She gets around. She was cheating on me with other guys. Who knows that's true? She gets around. It's a horrible phrase. That's not how we talk about it. I'm upset to have even said it. Yeah. It's just like, that's not a nice way to talk about people. It's not nice.

Also, no one says that about guys. He gets around. No one says that. Well, we do, but it's not often used in this way. It's not used to like, like, make someone look bad. Yeah. So after that, she dated Tony Gonzalez, who is another football player. To me, he's an Atlanta falcon.

I think he also is on the Chiefs. They have a son together named Nico. And then after that, she was on again and off again with Derek Fisher. Who is Derek Fisher? Derek Fisher was on the Lakers. He was on the teams of Kobe. He is like a famous person in Los Angeles. He was married to a woman named Candice.

They had a few kids together. And then they separated. And it's not funny. He then started dating Gloria Govon, who used to date, who was one of the Govon sisters, was Laura and Gloria. Actually, I think he did Laura. Excuse me. Gloria was married to Gilbert Arenas.

Laura, I believe, has twins with Matt Barnes, who's kind of like a notable, short temper, fiery. also a former NBA player. Okay. And Laura and Derek Fisher were, like, having a party and Matt Barnes' kids were there. And so Matt Barnes, like,

rushed over to fight Derek Fisher. And then, like, Derek Fisher and Matt Barnes have had, like, an ongoing feud. And I think he's now married to Laura Govan. Okay. So this is all... I'm sorry. It is Gloria.

Laura is who Gilbert Arena stated. Anyway, the Govon sisters have had a lot of NBA-related drama. So this is just by way of saying that she has been... Laura Sanchez was in the... NBA and NFL, L.A. Scene.

Drama scene. Yes. Gossip scene, which we don't cover as much here on jam session. It's the, I really recommend sources say for this type of material. But it's just notable that she is a person of note in that particular scene, even if she is not notable in like the Us Weekly vein of service. Yes, absolutely. Okay. And so then from there, she was engaged and then separated from Henry Simmons, who was on NYPD Blue.

and I believe she got separated from him because they were together in 2003 and then in 2003 she met Patrick Whitesell for the first time and then in 2005 married Whitesell and then now of course it's been reported that since June she's been seeing Jeff Bezos

she also has two children with Patrick Whitesell Evan and Ella. We should also say so she is a KTLA Broadcaster Yes I don't believe that she does that anymore I was reading that she became a pilot She stopped doing TV anchoring full-time. I believe she appears on, maybe it's the talk from time to time, you know, in a filling capacity.

But she also became a pilot and maybe does like stunt pilot work. So. Shout out to her. That's dope. You know, she's pursuing her. Her passions. One of which is Jeff Bezos. Yeah.

So I'm sorry, she flies helicopters for movies. But that's a type of piloting, right? That's cool. Yeah. I don't know. I've never been in helicopters. specific. Yeah. I like it. Okay. Cool, cool. So that's her deal, but she has definitely been in the mix of a lot of powerful people across sports, news, entertainment, and now tech.

Yeah. She's really seen it all, to be quite honest. Yeah. This is an autobiography that I would like to read one day. It's not a good look for her. Not the dating history, whatever, fine. But like just this whole, a lot of the overlap is not great. No, I mean, it's never, it's always the other woman in one of these situations who gets blamed and who you feel icky about, which is unfair. I mean, this is Jeff Bezos doing his thing. I think it's both of them. I think, that's probably true. They're both married. That's true.

It sucks. It just feels worse to blame a woman. As a woman, it feels worse. I agree with that. They just often get blamed. I think you're right that they are both consenting adults with a lot of resources and abilities to make decisions or not make decisions. And they made decisions. And if she wasn't hacked, one of the decisions she made was to send screenshots of these text messages to someone else.

Yeah. I mean, I... Unless it's not true. Maybe there's other ways. But, like, it just doesn't seem like it was a hack or, like, an illegal seizure of her IP or actual property. That's true. So, that sucks. I don't know.

It's a mistake. My inclination there is still to blame the person who sells it to the National Enquirer. Absolutely. Yeah. Those friends are bad. They've got to go. She's not a lot of bad people, though, because there's a lot of anonymous quotes about her, like, out there in the ether about how she's a cheater and like all this stuff. And so A, maybe she is,

but B, like, who are these people you have in your life who are just like selling stories about you? No, Bueno. Doesn't seem great. No. Yeah. Not great at all. Let's work on our judgment, people. Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez, as you move forward together, work on your judgment. Yeah, I agree with that. Let's talk about some unresolved questions here. Let's do that right after we talk about today's sponsor. First, let's talk about fitness. It makes you look better, feel better, and live longer. So why is it hard for so many of us to stay on track? The FitPlan app is changing the health and fitness game for good by making personal training affordable and accessible for everyone. With FitPlan, you get step-by-step personal training from the world's top fitness experts

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To start scoring amazing deals and incredible hotels, to hoteltonight.com or download the app now. All right, Amanda, hit me with the unresolved questions. Well, the logistics of the divorce. I mean, that's the real thing. There's no pre-up. 137 million dollars at stake, apparently. Billion.

Billion, sorry. Yes. Of course. 137 million would be nothing. Who cares? That's nothing. 137B. Yes, but it's not just like $137 billion sitting in a bank.

So much of it is tied up in Amazon. Yeah, the ownership of Amazon. Right. and voting rights and all of these issues. So that doesn't seem like something he's going to give up. A lot of homes. Yeah, but I mean, those you can at least divide one and the other. I'd give him all to her.

Just buy a new house, man. You can afford it. I'm sure he will, but that still doesn't even begin to cover, like, owning half of Amazon. I know. Which is, not half, but half of his share, which technically she does. I know. That's how it works. And The Washington Post.

Marriage is wild, guys. Really read those lines. before you sign. Are you sure you want to do it? Let me tell you, I didn't read as closely as I. Anyway, it's going to be fascinating because it really does then affect every industry, certainly how Silicon Valley arranges itself. I have, you know, McKenzie Basos has basically not been seen or heard from, which is absolutely

her right. I admire it. That's what I would do too. Nothing. Yeah. You know, and so people have been circulating the very few other public appearances that she's made, including a couple comments that she left on biographies of Jeff Bezos, just correcting them. Oh, dear. There's a piece in The New Yorker where you can, she's a novelist in her own, right?

And you can read some analysis of her writing and what that might cite about her ideas of marriage and whatnot. But again, you know, we don't know anything. It's people just grasping at the material that's available. Where should she go with her first interview? What's your suggestion? Wow, great question. I mean, Oprah? Oh, that's interesting. The answer to me in this situation is always Oprah, because as soon as you're aligned with Oprah, everyone's on your side.

That's true. I was going to say Vogue. I just feel like there's a great spread to be done with her. If she wants to go the, if she wants to stay above the fray, if she wants to just take whatever money is that her layers can get for her and then become kind of a charitable,

good works person who's respected, but you can't really ask any direct questions of her and she looks nice, then sure, I think Vogue is the right one. I guess the question is really how much press she has to do in order to... I don't think he's just going to hand over half of Amazon. Do you think she should do TV or print?

Like, what does she have more to gain from giving quotes, like a year of wine or from being seen on TV? Wow, a year of wine was so good. I know. A little bit of it depends on whether she can do TV. I mean, she's not a public figure. Yeah. She is not someone who gives a lot of interviews.

She's more comfortable in text, given the fact that she's a writer, I would assume. The flip side is that on camera, you can make an emotional connection to, and that's that a lot of people will see. And a two-minute clip will probably be consumed by more people. Sure. If you want the press and the public on your side, I think you go for TV. I actually have a curveball that I feel like should be a part of the post-divorce press tour. Yeah. If I were McKenzie Bezos, and this is biased with my own fandom, I'd be like, I want to go on James Corden and I want to do a funny viral video.

That's what I would want to do. I'd want to seem fun and lighthearted and be like, I'm ready to joke about this. The divorce settlement has to be signed before you do that. If you are ever in a situation for any amount of money, divorce, literally anything else, I need you to make sure that all the paperwork is done and notary or whatever the fuck happens at this level before you go on James Gordon. And then you can do whatever you want. But you lack that money down first, Julia. If I had ever had any damage control, that would be my first stop.

That would be like, even if it's not even like my own damage, but it's just like, we're. working on my image, that would absolutely be my first stop. Right. But I mean, so that's the thing here, right? It's not her damage. So she actually needs to figure out what she wants, what her resolution is, and actually work out the resolution of the damage of someone else's damage. Sure.

And then she can go on image control. But it's important to do it in that order. Okay? I'm just saying people in scandal and unwanted press, seek out James Gordon. He seems like a lovely haven for the people working on their rep. Okay. I would tell her to see a lawyer and then James Gordon. That's my advice. Oprah and Gordon all in one day in that order. Okay. All right. Well, we'll keep tracking this one. Shall we move on? Let's do it. Cardi B. Back in the media. Not that she really ever left,

but it's a groundswell. Let's just play the video. Can we play it? Sure. All right. Here we go. Hey, y'all. I just want to remind you because it's been a little bit over three weeks. Okay. It's been a little bit over three weeks. Trump is now ordering as. and summoning federal government workers to go back to work without getting pay. Now, I don't want to hear your motherfucker's talking about, oh, but Obama shut down the government for 17 days. Yeah, bitch, for health care. So your grandma could check her blood pressure,

and you bitches can go check your pussy and the gynecologists with no motherfucking problem. Now, I know a lot of y'all don't care because y'all don't work for the government or y'all prior to even have a job, but this shit is really fucking serious, bro. This shit is crazy. Like, our country is, in a hellhole right now. Oh, for a fucking wall. And we really need to take this serious.

I feel like we need to take some action. I don't know what type of action, bitch, because this is not what I do, but bitch, I'm scared. So this rightfully, that's more about policy than I've heard from most of our elected officials.

It's really true. It's really true. And I wanted to talk about this. Number one, because I just wanted to watch the video again and play it, because it is just transcendent. It is both informed and on message and also a performance that only Cardi B could give. It's really true.

It is extremely informed, like way more than most Americans by far. Yeah, bitch, health care. Yeah, bitch, health care. Essential knowing your adversary and being able to bring the information. I mean, she's completely right. She's right in every single way. And I even appreciate, you know, that we need to do something. and I don't know what it is because that's not my job.

There's self-knowledge, there's perspective, there's research, there's a point of view. She's completely right. And, you know, obviously it's gone entirely viral because it's amazing. Yeah. And it's Cardi B. Yeah, so I wanted to talk about it because it's great, but it is also, we talk a lot about celebrity and politics on Jam Session. I think we revisit it from time to time, and I think we'll keep talking about it a lot more in the next year and a half. as the next presidential election approaches.

We've never even spoken to each other about Rosario Dawson and Corey Booker. Oh, boy. What a couple. I mean, we'll just leave for the future. We'll leave it for when they break up. Yeah, I mean, you know, that's kind of, no, it's an interesting comparison

because there is, I think you and I have been really hesitant and suspicious of celebrity and politics because of what it's led to in the current administration. Sure. And that we see this as a result. of people being celebrity obsessed. And I endorse that, and I stand by that, but I do think that there is kind of a right way

for celebrity and politics to intermingle. And I think it's also impossible for them not to. I think it would be delusional to say, oh, we just completely divorce it because that's not how this society works. And frankly, it never has. I mean, Ronald Reagan was a movie star, whatever. But I think there's like a good way to do it and a dangerous way to do it.

And Corey Booker getting attention because he's dating a movie TV star. Slash activist. Slash activist. That's true. I should say that's, I don't mean to diminish. A Bernie bro. I don't mean to diminish Rosario Dawson in any way, shape, or form. I'm a huge fan of her.

Same. But I think what the interest there is in dating life, right? It's not in her activism. or her issues or his activism or his issues or platform or history or any of the political stuff. That's a – I mean, that's a jam session item, basically. Sure. We love jam session, but, you know, there's jam session and there's politics. And then there's celebrity politics, which is Cardi B, knowing what the fuck she's talking about and using her platform to effectively speak to an issue in a way that a lot of people, especially politicians, as you noted, can't.

Yeah, with any kind of authenticity. Yeah. And I find myself not just softening to the second category, but being like, well, I guess this is the only way that anything's going to get fixed. I totally agree. Not necessarily, I mean, it's complicated, but I feel like in this political climate, I find myself softening on topics and people. I didn't expect that I would. And also skeptical, because I think, like, a really good comparison is Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez cooking in her apartment to, like, show, like, what her life is like or whatever and to, like, be the authentic congresswoman. And I think the more that she kind of, and this is true of like Beto O'Rourke, the more that they kind of like use social media as a tool in a very obvious fashion, the less authentic it feels, though that's not the intent.

And Cardi B, like for whatever reason, it still just feels like her natural habitat. Like this is how she should be talking to her fans and her audience and a natural place for her to be addressing policy. It's really weird. Yeah. For me, it's, I agree with you. For me, it's really clarifying that we know this and we talk about it all the time. but being good at being famous is actually a skill. Not everyone is good at being famous.

Not everyone knows what to do when you have the captive attention of millions of people. And some people know what to do and use it for evil. And not naming names, but you know who I'm talking about. And I think Cardi B is just like is really, really gifted. It's a singular talent. She knows what to do. That video is just in a million years. I could never do it.

And she just does it spontaneously because that is a real. skill. And I think because of how she sounds and how she looks, she's constantly underestimated. Yes. And that's like one of the reasons why what she does is so revelatory and feel so fresh is partially because for someone who started as like a good quote on a Mona Scott TV show. And before that was, you know, a stripper. This is like not what we expect. But it's like that and that's one of the reasons why it's like so almost like profound that she has this effect. It's very true. And I think she is just making me think a little bit more about that skill is a real skill. and is valuable and is necessary, especially in 2019.

And I probably have to think a little bit more seriously about how I respond to it and take it a little more seriously. And perhaps some other people should as well. Yeah. But still, the crucial difference between her and Trump is at, or at least for me, maybe this isn't a difference, but it applies to both of them, that neither should be a fucking president. Like, just because you are, like, educated at policy and good at being famous doesn't mean you should be the president. Yeah, I completely agree. To Courtney B's credit, in the video, she's like,

This is not my job. I don't know what to do, but this is scary and it needs to be better, which is also a degree of self-knowledge and just basic practicality that certain people are lacking. Yeah, absolutely. I'm scared to fly. That's my biggest. I mean, I'm lucky that's my biggest fear. I don't like, because I'm not a government employee. Yeah.

But it's like, it's pretty wild. This is still happening. We could take, we can talk with them more in a different forum. That's true. And I just, you know, I want to talk about it because number one. Cardi B. Support and listen, support and listen to Cardi B. And number two, I think we'll keep talking about this.

Yeah, for sure. And it's, I think our thoughts will evolve. And, you know, I encourage you also to think about it if you consume these things regularly. Let's move to one more. Actually, we've got two more. You want to do polar opposite. You want to share your exciting news of the week. Sure.

I found out that when flying commercial, Leonardo DiCaprio flies on JetBlue. And I found that out from reading a daily mail article that's like Leonardo DiCaprio and his girlfriend of two years. No idea he had a girlfriend in two years. I don't remember her name, no offense to her. It's hard to keep track. Leo's distracting. And it's very clear there's like a video of him like at JFK. And he's, there's like a mosaic sign behind him.

And that's like the points program for JetBlue. So he flies JetBlue. And I find that remarkable for two reasons. One, very limited destination, Thungeap Blue can play her to some of the other airlines. So that means he's like not really playing the points game, which I guess he doesn't have to because he's Leonardo DiCaprio. And also great choice. Because if I were him, I would only fly first class. And JetBlue first class is incredible.

Like, they've just, I've only done it one time. And it was like kind of illicit. I was, whatever. It's only illicit because I didn't pay for it myself. And so I just couldn't believe it. And I was like, cool. Lenard DiCaprio, JetBlue. May I share a JetBlue first class anecdote?

I have also only flown it once in my life. It's my only first class experience. And the only, the one time that I flew meant JetBlue. This is not sponsored, by the way. Though get at me if you, hello, JetBlue. But the one time I flew it was when we were flying back to New York for our wedding. And Miley Cyrus was also in my Jeff Blue cabin. What a segue.

Yeah. It's an amazing segue. And the reason I knew that she came out at the very end, but I didn't actually notice her. And I became aware when you heard that unmistakable Miley voice sitting two rows behind you. But apparently, apparently celebrities like JetBlue men. It is great. It's really delightful. And we want to talk about Miley as well.

Yeah. So, Miley is not correctly pregnant, according to. to Miley Cyrus, who is the only authority on Miley Cyrus's bodily status that we will be accepting. I wanted to talk about this just as a refresher on Check Your Sources. We do it from time to time here at Jam Session, New Year, new rant, let's just refresh. Let's all be our best gossip reading selves in 2019. So here's how the Miley thing happened. We became aware of it in the Daily Mail. Yes. But the Daily Mail was aggregating a an okay Australia report saying that Miley was pregnant and that she, it's a girl,

and that they were going to raise the child in Australia. Now, her now husband Liam Hemsworth is from Australia. So like not completely out of the realm of possibility, but I don't really think Miley Cyrus is moving to Australia anytime soon. No way. So this new cycle went for about a day until Miley took to Twitter and was like, no, I'm not pregnant. And she did something about the egg, which whatever. The egg is a thing. We're too old for the egg. What's the egg? Really? Oh, yeah. It was a thing. I only learned about this from Elizabeth Beresnack, who was covering it from a work perspective. But they put a picture of an egg on Instagram.

Who's they? I don't know. Okay. Because I don't care. Okay. And they tried to get more like the most likes ever on a post. Was this in December or something? No. It was this year. It was this year, right? Kaya? Yeah. Yeah. I had to ask the youth. It was this year And their goal was to get the most likes ever On an Instagram post And specifically to get more likes Than the most liked Kylie Instagram posts

So she was implying that Was she trying to get likes Or was she implying that Okay, Australia was trying to get likes Or clicks by spreading the story I don't really know All right, let's just leave the egg Too confusing

It wasn't actually sure Why she was referencing the egg I guess it was like the egg Was the thing of the day Okay All right, cool I will just say As someone who uses Instagram

far too much is like worryingly addicted to Instagram. I had absolutely no interaction or knowledge of the egg at any point. And I spend all my time on Instagram. I primarily use it now to look at pictures of Killian Murphy as Tommy Sheltley from Kiki Blinder. Wow. 2019 is just, you know, all new possibilities. Anyway, okay, back to the point.

So Miley denied the pregnancy. And I just... I just want to say one thing. Yes. One piece of evidence people were pointing to was like for her bridal pictures, she's holding her bouquet. In the assigned bridal pose. But I think people who are like true Miley fans might be too young to know this because they

haven't been a bridesmaid or a bride. When you walk down the aisle and when you're being photographed for your bridal photos, you hold your hands on the bouquet right from your belly button. In that way, like, it's like perfect for like the shot, basically. And so that's how she was holding the flowers. And I was like, oh, she was instructed to do that by the photographer. I think there was also one photograph, one recent photograph where she was wearing like a billowing like a caftan.

And I basically dress like I'm pregnant all the time now. I mean, so do I. But I think, you know, the photo caught the one shot where the caftan was going at a certain way and it looks like she's pregnant. And so then tabloids make up a story to accompany the photograph that they use as like evidence whatever. I think that's kind of how it happened. Yeah, I think that's right.

But anyway, I just- Anyone who watched any moment of the Nothing Bricks Like a Heart Press Store? I mean, she obviously is not pregnant in any of those performances. So I just wanted to use it as a reference. In terms of what sources to check, because this showed up in our celebrity slack and I pretty confident it was like, this is from OK Australia. I don't think this is true. And then a day later, she denied it.

Yeah. Which, you know, maybe she'll be pregnant next month. I don't really know that that's an evolving situation. Sure. So sources that we trust. TMZ. TMZ, yes. National Enquirer.

Usually, yeah. Sometimes. Most of the time. When it comes to separations and such. I wouldn't buy a National Enquirer and read every single thing. in it and be like, yes, this is fact. But if it's a blockbuster National Inquirer investigation, yes. People magazine.

Yes. It's the official mouthpiece. Us Weekly. Generally, yes. I would say yes. And I think it's important to note Us Weekly is owned by AMI, which also owns the National Inquirer. But I do think they still have a lot of sourcing and infrastructure left from what

Us Weekly was pretty reliable. I think probably yes is what I would say to Us Weekly. It's kind of like a where there's smoking. there's fire situation. People and us are where publicists go to generate stories or lay the groundwork for them. So that's why it's a general yes. Yeah. The thing to keep in mind is that people and us are also at this point aggregating other sources to try to get traffic.

So you can't just trust the headline. You have to read and you have to find out where the original piece of information is coming from. If it's an exclusive, then it's a guy. Yes. Their sources tell us or people you can probably trust it. Radar? No. Of course not. Okay. No. In touch? No. Absolutely not. Howard no. Star. Absolutely not. I recommend another podcast on this by our friend Willa Paskin and Slate and she did a podcast about Jennifer Aniston and basically all of the tabloid rumors of why in touch says every week that Jennifer Aniston might be pregnant with Brad Pitt's baby, which like she's not. And in touch and Star especially. if you look at those headlines on the supermarket,

it's just, I actually legally don't understand how they can get away with it all of the time. Me neither. Because they are just so factually inaccurate. I mean, they seem entertaining. In a fictional world, those would be interesting things to read. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

But those are not reliable sources. And then the one that is reliable, kind of is blind gossip. Yes, I was going to say. Blind gossip, I mean, you have to be able to read between the lines. Yeah. And check out the comment section sometimes. Yes, although the comment section can lead you a bit astray. Oh, it can definitely lead you astray.

But blind gossip. You can slu-you-can triangulate on that website. So in the Miley example, about a few hours after the Daily Mail OK Australia thing started going around, blind gossip posted an information. Like refuting it. Right, refuting and it's saying they're trying, but she's not pregnant right now. And that was well before Miley herself refuted it. And you could tell pretty, like, it was pretty obvious that was about Miley, even though it's. didn't say Miley. Also on the blind gossip, I recommend a piece that Alyssa Beresnack wrote for

the ringer late last year, just about how blind gossip items and blind items in general, you know, they aren't always right and you do have to be careful with this sort of stuff, but they are often sources of larger information, particularly as it relates to sexual misconduct. There is a lot of information that can be had there. Right. You just have to be smart about how to read it. Yeah. It's triangulation. Yeah, which is true of gossip in general. Absolutely.

Also, by the way, Daily Mail just is aggregating literally everything under the sign. So you can't trust the daily. Literally anything. I mean, just read, you know, they misspell everything in every single post. So you can't trust them. Be careful in the gossip streets. Yeah. Read responsibly. Read responsibly.

And don't sex if you're in a relationship. I mean, don't, if you're married, maybe think about not leaving a paper trail. That's all I have to say. Yeah, that's true. Smarter technological choices with your communication and your, you're, however you want to express your sex life in 2019. We support your sex life. We just want you to be responsible about it.

On that note, thank you to the FitPlan app and thank you to Hotel Tonight. We'll be back in two weeks. Thanks, everyone.