The Press Box - An American Pope Media Frenzy, Jayson Tatum Take-a-Palooza, and the Reemergence of Joe Biden

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Hello, media consumers! Bryan and David are back on this Monday edition to talk about the election of a new Pope and the media frenzy it spawned (1:00), the week of Jayson Tatum takes (8:00), NBC’s plans for the future of its basketball coverage, including Michael Jordan (17:00), and new media ventures being unable to come up with compelling names for their products (24:00). Then, they’re joined by Politico’s Adam Wren to talk about the reemergence of Joe Biden in the media ahead of a book that’s about to be released about him (38:00). Plus, the Overworked Twitter Joke of the Week, and David Shoemaker Guesses the Strained-Pun Headline. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David Shoemaker Guest: Adam Wren Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everyone? I'm Nora Prynciotti. And I'm Nathan Hubbard. And we're coming in like a wrecking ball to announce a brand new series. That's right. It's every single album, Miley Cyrus. Deep dive with us into the career of one of our most creative and confounding pop stars. We're starting, of course, with the best of Hannah Montana. And ending with her brand new album, Something Beautiful, in June. And don't forget about Miley Cyrus and her dead pets.

We certainly will not be doing that. So listen now on Spotify. or wherever you get your podcasts. Yes. As you might have learned from every Twitter account you follow, we have a new Pope. Yeah, we do. A new Pope.

Leo the 14th, aka Bob Prevost of Chicago. Bob? Bob. Are we on that sort of familiar basis with him now? Well, this is the thing. They were doing a lot of papal postgame interviews. Mm-hmm.

as you might have noticed and people were just calling him Bob. Yeah, I guess it's like, is it because they all had some familiarity with them or is this like the New York journalism thing where you can refer to every writer that you haven't known once you get in the door, you can refer to everybody by their nickname.

Lewis Menon becomes Luke Monon, etc. Yeah, yes. There's also a formal post-game interview I didn't know about where seven American Cardinals were assembled on a stage in Rome and they kind of get, gave opening statements and then Lester Holt asked the first question from the audience. This is like the Fox Sunday crew, just like all up there at one long table.

Yeah. Yeah, Bill would have had a tweet. Like there's just one too many cardinals on my TV screen right now. Yeah. I didn't totally make it to the end of Conclave, but did they have the post game interview as part of the movie? Yeah. This is something we just learned about. Yeah.

None of those cardinals have enough time to really express a thought. It's just like 15 seconds and on to the next one. Yeah. We need to keep this thing moving along. We got an Aaron Andrews profile we need to get to. The other great content moment was the brother, John Prevost, who lives in suburban Chicago, and he was being interviewed by the AP, and he realizes he's left his tablet in the basement. So he goes down to the basement, and on camera discovers that his brother, the Pope,

has been trying to call him for two hours. so he finally calls him back and again all this is being recorded please look this up if you haven't seen it and the new pope says why don't you answer your phone and brother of pope says you need to know you're on the air right now it's so good just an amazing moment there in content I also loved this which I didn't know about the papal now they tell us story. Oh, okay. We know these from like every basketball trade, but there are people now they tell us stories. There was an awesome one in the Wall Street Journal, which I would

recommend by Stacey Mitre, Margarita Stancottie, Ian Lovett, and Marcus Walker. And let me tell you something, dude, it was like Conclave the movie. They had the facial expressions from inside the room. It was very, very good, real excellent writing too for a dead headline story. I also read the New York Times as now they tell us story. And you know how there's always a line when you're writing about politicians where you say the person was granted anonymity so they can speak candidly? Oh, yeah.

This is an actual line from the New York Times. A dozen cardinals could divulge only so much because of secrecy rules that carry the penalty of excommunication. Oh, wow. So that's a little bit different than getting in trouble with your political bus. Mm-hmm. Other Pope content highlights, of course we resurface the old tweets. Yeah.

Can't believe popes have tweets. That was a surprise, wasn't it? Mm-hmm. They are also tweeting about J.D. Vance. Pope's so like us. And speaking of which, tons of small details here, the new Pope likes steak. Yeah. He plays Wordle.

Wow. Two for two with David Shoemaker so far. Yep. He graduated from Villanova. and a friend told the New York Times we've had a lot of fun watching the Knicks. Then we had an unlikely sports media angle. First of all, the Chicago media,

I think there's Chicago media, it may have been ABC News, completely screwed this up because they said the Pope was a Cubs fan. Oh, yeah. He's not a Cubs fan. He's actually a White Sox fan. Yeah, it's important distinction there. Fundamentally Chicago thing you can screw up.

By the way, overwork Twitter joke, and we will be getting to those in a second, but overwork Twitter joke, the Cardinals never would have picked a Cubs fan. But amazingly, somebody found out that during the 2005 World Series, when the White Sox won their first title since whenever, game won two outs in the night, the Astros, Adam Everett is up, and the now Pope is in the stands.

Pope was there. The Pope was there. And Fox did that thing they always do during big baseball games. You know, you have like, strike two. And they did do the little. cut away to the stands. Yeah. And someone is inevitably blowing on their hands or just kind of jumping up and down.

There was just one man with a halo around his head and light shining down from the heavens. A supernal light was coming on the future pope. By the way, a little trivia. That was Bill Webb, the legendary late Fox director who took that shot, a guy who was like a giant sports television. So did not think I'd be working him into the Pope story here. But here we are, David. Were you surprised at all?

how much our friends on media Twitter were into the Pope even before we knew that this would be the first American Pope. I was. If you would ask me, if we had talked about this with some crystal ball, guessing what the next, you know, knowing the Pope was about to pass away, etc. I would have thought that the coronation of a new Pope would be a thing of the past. It would be a thing that we don't really pay that much attention to

to in the media anymore. And yet, it was as big as anything in recent memory has been. All the news channels were just on just content TikTok following the whole thing. And social media, yeah, it was just blowing up about it. I mean, you knew there would be, you would expect there to be jokes and whatever else. But, like, people were really following the announcement of a new Pope. Like, it was the biggest thing in the world. I guess, like we always say, people are thirsty for monoculture.

And even if it's a thing that sort of seems otherwise outmoded, like the election of a new pope election. That's right, right? Selection. Let's go with selection. They do cast ballots. I suppose it's on election. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

But anyway, people were wild to follow it. Is it just because the Met Gala was over? We need another monoculture moment. If they aired the Met Gala, like the live entrances of the Met Gala on broadcast television opposite the selection of a new pope, that would be interesting to see who would win. Folks, we will have 101 overworked Twitter jokes in just a second because this is one of social media's finest moments of the selection of Leo the 14th.

But first, coming up on the press box, Politico's Adam Wren is going to join us to talk about Joe Biden's breaking of silence. Could that have anything to do with a damning book that's about to come out? Plus the new world of NBA TV and the present world of Jason Tatum takes all that and much more on the press box. A part of the ringer. Podcast Network. Media consumers, Brian Curtis,

David Shoemaker and producer Bobby Wagner here. David, we're recording this before game four of the Nick Celtics series. Yeah, we are. So everything we say may be completely moot by the time people listen to this podcast. Should we just give up or? Yeah, let's forge your head like the Celtics. All right. I got to say, Jason Tatum.

not my favorite player in the NBA. The Celtics, not a team I ever root for under any circumstances. But I felt the Jason Tatum takes after game two went a little over the falls. Oh, yeah? Tell me more about that. The legacy defining takes.

Yeah. I saw Dan Lebitard talking about, you know, Jalen Brunson and had the game winner against the Pistons in the first round. Mm-hmm. And he's like, where are the moments with Jason,

Tatum, where are the moments we crave from a great player? I'm like, well, you know, holding up the Larry O'Brien trophy last year, was that a moment? Do we sweep that one under the rug? That's a good question. Because he played badly down the stretch in the first two games of the series. Yeah. It's just funny to me because, you know, again, I was talking to Bobby about this the other day and there is something happy about not being a prisoner of rings culture, especially on debate shows. I'm like, I don't know. Kenny Smith won two rings. What are you going to say?

Like, well, I should be able to say things. Yeah. I don't know. It just, it felt very, very strange and it felt like we were getting debate show style commentary from outlets you wouldn't expect. Well, there's also, I mean, also in the legacy debate, which always bothers me in this context. Well, I mean, it can bother you because it's just so ephemeral and sort of empty whenever people bring it up. But it's also his debate, I mean, his legacy is being defined by the people who are making this argument. You can't be, you can't just be like sitting outside like some spectator and be like,

I don't know. I mean, this is really going to affect his legacy. No, you can just, it's your job to say this is legacy is trash, right? It can't be some like, I have no control over the legacy. But no, you're the only people with control over his legacy. You are going to determine the way that Jason Tatum is discussed the years moving forward. You can't be a neutral legacy watcher. Yeah, you're not the beyonder.

there just like, you know, silently watching. But you don't, you're, this, you're, you're part of this. Do you think he deserves it? Well, then say that, you know? We're in like a, I think, I think we're in like a post-apocalyptic culture from the rings culture. Like, we've moved beyond that world because something weird happened with like the pandemic, with the Dodgers ring and the Lakers ring, where we started saying that rings

were fraudulent now because those ones didn't count. And once you opened up that Pandora's box. you can now say things like, well, Jason Tatum's ring was the most fraudulent, which is not really a line of argument that you used to see anywhere except, like the worst of the worst Twitter comments. Yeah.

And now you see it on first take. Now you see it every morning when you turn your TV. That's my theory on why this is happening. I think you're on to something. I think we overcorrected away from Rings culture. Bring Rings culture back. That's what the press box is telling you guys. Oh my God, because everybody's, you know,

really happy about Jalen Brunson. and I agree, it is more fun to watch Mighty Mouse go to the hole than it is to watch Jason Tatum shoot a step back three. That is objectively, aesthetically more pleasing. But folks, Jalen Brunson has been out of the second round of the playoffs one time in his life. And it was with Luca. That's it. That's all. I mean, what are it's like, well, he showed me a lot.

Okay, well, she showed you when? Showed you last year before they got bounced. Okay. sure I don't know that whole thing felt like it got completely bonkers there and I understand the incentives right we want to pounce on the moment

because if you go all in on the moment then you can do it again after game four and you get both you get both content opportunities it's just I just think and by the way let me say this it's okay to discuss people's legacy on podcasts in long form

in writing I appreciate all of this stuff but the point of a TV show is to discuss what happened in the game, right? I mean, this is, if you only have 30 seconds to get your point across, let's say, Jason Tateum needs to be more assertive going to the basket. Jason Tate, what has Jason Tate need to do? I'm guessing that, I'm guessing that Joe Mazzula is not like pulling Tateham aside in the locker room and just being like,

I know you think you gave it your all, but consider your legacy. What are we, it's just so silly. I was watching Celtics Nix game three on Saturday, David. this is ESPN's number one team that was doing the announcing. Mike Breen, Dorisberg, Richard Jefferson. Very funny moment early when Breen did the TV announcer tick where he says his partner's full name. Yes.

Democrats are at a crossroads, David Shoemaker, as they approach the 2025 for the 100 days of Trump. But Richard Jefferson just turns to him when Breen's done and says, you can just call me Richard, Mike. to call me Richard Jefferson. That team, by the way, the number one ESPN team, not a bad listen. No.

But you can really tell they are working it out. Yes, I agree. Richard Jefferson to me feels like he's in that mode where it's like, I'm going to get my stuff in. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't totally matter where the broadcast is going or what was said right before I started talking. Yeah.

I'm going here. Mm-hmm. There was a moment in that game. I don't know if you caught this. Drew Holiday does a pump fake at the three point line and goes to the basket. And all the Knicks were on the three point line. So he's just got the emptiest cup you will ever see in an NBA game out of a half court set. Yeah.

And right before he gets to the basket, he does this very unnecessary like fake pass. Like he's not trying to freeze anybody. There's nobody in the frame. But he just does a fake pass and he lays it up. And Doris Burke on the broadcast says he did that. right at the next bench. It was totally unnecessary, but just a little like, you see that right at the next bench?

And then Richard Jefferson comes in and just shuts her down. He's like, no, I don't think he was doing that. And I'm like, you know what? Even if you didn't think that that was how that should be interpreted, sometimes you just got to lay out for the greater good. Yes, I agree. Let us just chuckle and move on instead of shutting her down and saying, no, you're wrong about this.

Yeah. It's just full, that, that pervades that broadcast to me. Yeah, they're still finding their footing for sure. I got to tell you, I feel a little bit uncomfortable having this conversation only because I feel like the public conversation. I mean, I know we have the esteemed role of co-hosts of a media podcast, but I feel like the public discourse about just announced teams in general, and specifically this win as it is the NBA playoffs,

has just been like just so loud lately. I know this has been coming up for a while, but like everybody that's tweeting about the game has a take on the, booth and it's not something that I know we've talked about it a lot this stuff has happened before but historically this is this is not something that you ever heard people talking about you know the people the announcers that were assigned to your game are just sort of like it's like complaining about the the temperature outside you know this is just the thing I guess people do complain about it but this is just something that we got to deal with you know that it's been there's been a lot of it

does it feel like there's been more to you too yeah I think it always happens in this round because you go four deep on each network. Oh, yeah. So you're hearing people that you might not always hear during the regular season. That's true. So though, I cannot tell you how many tweets we got like, hey, can we get it only in journalism for Mark Jones's broadcast? You use the word vicissitudes the other day in a broadcast. I'm like, it's not actually journalism per se, but yes, vicissitudes would count as an only in journalism word.

I just think people wind up seeing that in a different way. But you're right. like the games have been so close. Yeah. That a well-adjusted person that didn't host a media podcast should probably focus on the basketball. Leave the heavy lifting to us. Speaking of which, David, in other NBA media news, we got a look at the future of NBA TV

this fall. Oh. With an announcement this morning that Michael Jordan, that Michael Jordan is going to be a special contributor to NBC's. coverage. I know. Now, that's exciting. Definitely brings back the NBA on NBC nostalgia. For sure. He won all of his titles on NBC. Do you think Michael Jordan is going to be on the air more times than Wayne Gretzky is on the air as a part of Turner's NHL coverage? I found this news out while recording my wrestling podcast earlier today. We talked about it a little bit. I mean,

and the first thing I thought was I got to talk to Brian and see if he knows anything. I met with that clearly this is a this is directly related to Tom Brady going calling the NFL games and the dollar figure attached to that right even someone is outrageously wealthy as Michael Jordan had to see that and just be like I would also like that amount of money right yeah I didn't know that was on the table yeah exactly um the way that they have him is like a special correspondent sounds a little bit like he's going to be doing the Barbara walters interviews like the Chris Connolly cutaway is at half time or whatever. And I'm guessing that's not Michael Jordan's cup of tea,

nor his ideal skill set. I don't really know what you do with Michael Jordan. I don't know what, if you could somehow capture the Michael Jordan from the last dance and just have him commenting in real time about the game he just saw, sort of like Charles Barkley, if he never left the green room, there could be some magic there. but it feels like you're going to have as much difficulty

kind of recreating or recreating that sort of magic to a degree you'd have so much trouble that it's not going to end up coming out like anything special. I just don't know. I don't know. I feel like is Michael Jordan going to give thoughtful readings of the games as they're happening? Or is he just going to be in pre-tapes talking about? I don't know. What is he going to talk about? I think you're right.

We've had last dance Michael Jordan in our lives exactly one time or however many episodes the last dance was. So I kind of doubt that we're going to get that guy. Even if he were to be in that mode, I just don't think he's going to come to the set that many times. I mean, to me, again, this is a great press release. Yeah. You get him for NBC's first game in forever.

You get him in the playoffs. Maybe get him during the conference. finals. And by the way, that'd be great. You know, he is in the Tom Brady zone where anything Michael Jordan says about present day basketball is news. Yeah. Michael Jordan on Jason Tatum's legacy, let's go. Yeah.

I'll take it. Pro or con. Michael Jordan has an exemption from the Jason Tatum legacy talk as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. I just don't think you can get him that much. Practically speaking, special correspondent means. But the other thing is that Tom Brady really set the bar not just in salary, but in terms of like activity, right?

I mean, he didn't work for that money. He was there for doing the prep, showing up and calling the games. It's a wonderful job, luxurious job for most people in the world, but a lot more than, I mean, I don't even remember what your reaction was,

but my reaction when the first Tom Brady press release came out was that this is just a show, like whatever, like he'll never show up to call a game. And if he does, it'll be just something, he'll pop into the studio for five seconds, like whatever. But he really did it. And that's, and that's going to be the,

what people are going to compare Michael Jordan's involvement level to, which surprisingly is actually really high. What Kaz, the co-host on my other show suggested, which is, I laughed at and now I'm actually just absorbing is, can Michael Jordan do a gambling segment on the NBA on NBC? Oh, my God. I mean, David Stern's not around to stop it. Yeah. So maybe?

Because this is the new Jimmy, the Greek, is just Michael George. Jordan just smoking a cigar and Michael Jordan's picks tonight. Yeah. Oh my God. That's such a great idea that it now has to happen. We got a little bit of a look, David, on what NBC is going to look like this fall when they get the NBA back.

No surprise, Mike Tariko, Noah Eagle on play by play. Uh-huh. Reggie Miller and Jamal Crawford on color. Yeah. Carmelo Anthony in the studio. Love it. That's an interesting adventure. And I like the fact that we're bringing new people in here.

similar to Amazon bringing in Dirk Davidsky and Steve Nash. There's some more NBA on NBC nostalgia that I'm not sure about. That is Jim Fagan, David. A famous

voiceover guy, Wikipedia tells us he not only did NBA on NBC voiceovers, but W.W.E. voiceovers. That's why he's so familiar. Here's the thing. Jim Fagan died in 2017. and NBC is going to bring back AI generated Jim Fagan

to do promos this fall. Wow. Yeah. I don't mean this to be to diminish Jim Fagan's ability nor his contributions to the promo reading space. But it does seem like there's probably a lot of other Jim Fagan-esque announcers out there that could do this that are still working, right? And it would still give you the same vibe as Jim Fagan.

And I, this just feels a little bit cripply like, like, like we're taking a job, giving it to a machine, but dressing it in this, in this, dressing it up with this pretensive nostalgia and the,

I'm sure that there's whatever, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

payment they're giving to his, to his estate, right? Completely agree. Completely. agree. It would be like if they fired, if they, you know, if they fired you and they're like, oh, we're, you know, we're going to replace you with this AI, Grantlin Rice or something, you know, and just like we have. Like, how cool is that, guys? We actually brought them back to life for this

purpose. And, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's still taking a living person's, a working person's job away. Yes. I mean, that's like the prettiest face you can put on AI. What if, what if AI brought back your childhood. Yeah. What if AI gave you all the feels from the NBA on NBC? It just seems so unnecessary. Yeah. Like I understand the power of the Jim Fagan guy because when I was watching the Saturday Night Live shows the other day when they were doing the anniversary shows. Yeah. I'm like, you know who I miss? Don Pardo. Yep. Who used to have such a great voice. Remember Phil Hartman, Jan Hooks? And they had the new guy and I was like, ooh, this feels off somehow.

Mm-hmm. But just because I had that moment of discomfort doesn't mean I need AI-generated Don Pardo. Don't give them any ideas. David, I want to talk to you about how people don't know what to name new media ventures. Oh, no. I think I said that awkwardly, but follow me here. Comcast is spinning off their cable assets, MSNBC, CNBC, USA, and others into a new company. This is being called Spinco for a while.

Yeah. But now they have announced the name of this new company. It is versant. What? Versant. Oh, okay. Versant, Adweek tells us, is an actual word in the dictionary. Okay.

It means conversant. I was going to say, it's not the opposite of conversant. No, it's a versin. So these new old cable channels newly repackaged will be versant with politics and business news and sports. Wow. Strange one. Similarly, ESPN has a new app coming out this fall. Oh.

This is the first time you'll have ever been able to buy ESPN, including all the games, everything ESPN has, over the top. the app was known internally as flagship app. Now it has a formal name. According to CNBC, it will be known as ESPN. Let's see, there you go. There you go. Someone tweeted and said, you know what? It could be worse.

They could have tried a Macs-style rebrand. I was like, what's a lesser sports brand of the 90s? Well, at least Max has like a logical connection to, well, maybe not logical, but a linear connection. It's not like one of these made-up things. That's something like the deuce. You could call ESPN. It's our app. It used to be what we call the ESPN too.

No, it's incredibly. Versant I have a huge problem with. It's just, that's just terrible. Unless it's one of these secret things that only the people in the, you know, front office ever use the term.

I don't. I just don't. That just feels like, I mean, listen, I know the pain of going online and searching for an available URL or email address or whatever,

but Versant, something that you or I would come to with our very limited resources. That should not be what a major corporation is putting out there as like the only option we can come up with that's not already squatted on by somebody else. It feels like it was created by AI. Like we had you read novels about high tech from the 90s and watch movies from the same period. Yeah. And come up with the name. Or maybe they're just like, we're going to sell this so soon anyway. It's like, who cares what it's called? It's going to be, it's going to be a, piece of another company before we know it.

Only in journalism word of the week, David. This is where we celebrate words that you read in news articles all the time, but never hear in human speech. The word of the week is Mercurial. Oh, love that one. Former Steelers wide receiver George Pickens was described as mercurial in ESPN, the athletic, the AP, Sports Illustrated, and the New York Post. Yeah.

The athletic also called him. Enigmatic. Yes. To vary things up a little bit. Runner up was the new Chicago Pope being described as polyglot. That's a Mr. Hamilton word right there. Two quick pieces of audio for you. This one I love because it combines so many of your interests.

P. Buttigieg, professional wrestling. Yep. And one of your more controversial food takes. Oh, no. Buddha Judge was on MSNBC with Jen Saki and just listen to where this thing went. You've got the Secretary of Education saying that we need to make sure kids are trained in something she calls A1, which means she doesn't understand that it's AI, which means she doesn't understand artificial. It's not A1 steak sauce, everyone. Like, I love A1 steak sauce, but A1 steak sauce is not one of the most important.

Oh, man. I mean, I've got a lot of thoughts here. I do think it just kind of comes back to like, I think if you get something like that wrong in a public place in a public setting, you should maybe just, that's it. That's it for you.

You're allowed to retire gracefully. Some things that aren't disqualifying, but A1 instead of AI is disqualifying. Or at least come out there and just be like, guys, I just came over here from Ruth's Chris. I'm sorry, I had a brain fart.

Like, I was just down in all this steak. Yeah, that should be disqualifying. I think. Good on Mayor Pete for calling that out. I'm also good on Mayor Pete for saying he loves A1 steak sauce. Sound a little bit like a politician lie,

but, you know, I guess he's going to have to back it up now. We'll see him eating some steak. What is the steak of political campaigns? Are you allowed to go out to like a diner and order like a strip steak? It's not exactly like you can't go out BC and eating an expensive steak, one of these Washington steakhouses. That would be problematic in its own way. Yes, Capitol Grill doesn't feel like a place where you want to be seen during a political campaign.

What about Midwest diners steak and eggs? Oh, yes, 100%. That's a great one. Did Pat McAfee wrestle this weekend? Speaking of wrestling? Pat did wrestle this weekend. He did a great job. And the only complaint that I heard was that he looked a little bit too good for a guy that's supposed to be, not just he's an announcer, but sort of playing the role as the of an announcer.

And maybe his dominating opponent didn't look quite dominating enough. But he did. He got his ass kicked. He got the crapied out of him and then choked out of him by Gunther, who is a certifiable badass. It was a good match. But I think more important than that was the underlying storyline of journalistic integrity. He got into a beef with the bad guy wrestler because Michael Cole, who you have interviewed and written a wonderful profile of

was as the straight man, the play-by-play man, a little bit too gleeful at Gunther's loss at WrestleMania. Oh, I see. And so Gunther came out, said, you got something to say, you can say it to me, he went after Cole, McAfee stepped in to defend his honor,

and now we're here. And the funny thing was, it was really like she echoes of what you would hear in the media during, you know, or past several years of merits of journalism, debates where after the after the attack michael cole's kind of apologizing the fans for what they saw and apologize and he's and you know trying to make sense of this whole thing but he's also sort

of apologizing to go through he's like listen maybe i did go a little bit over the top maybe i did say some things they shouldn't said but at the end of the day we're fans here too you know i mean we're journalists but we're we're also fans and it's just like wow he's he's ready to start a football podcast. This is the... Oh my God, I love it. I will never forget a couple years ago when you and I were at WrestleMania here in Los Angeles. Pat McAfee surprisingly came out of the back, came down to the ring to wrestle. And we were

sitting next to Jamel Hill. Yeah. And I just look over Jamel Hill. Here's Jamel who had like a job like Pat McAfee's at ESPN. Yeah. And we just lock eyes like, oh my God, what is happening right now? Uh, Oh, it's so great. One more piece of audio for you. Cameron Kinsey is a political analyst. And she was on Fox News at night recently.

David, I want you to hear something that happened during this segment of hardcore political analysis. Ideology. It's not about. Oh, my goodness. Oh, we got this. We're just going to get some help. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but Cameron. Let me come back to Lydia while we get some help for Cameron here.

So Lydia, the president, we're going to actually, we're going to go to a break right here. We'll be right back. So Cameron Kinsey collapsed in the studio. Good news. She's doing fine. She blamed dehydration says she is going to be all better, be on TV again very soon, we hope. What I want to focus on here is the host of the program. Mm-hmm.

I'm glad this is where we're going. Okay. Yeah, because what would you do in that instance? Do you notice how the host immediately said, hey, other guests, can you just fill for two minutes? Yeah. While we deal with the situation here? This is one of those great, great questions about life. We all like to think that we're the person that would just dive from our seat to the floor and start administering CPR, right?

Just throwing your tie over your shoulder and just trying to do whatever you can out. I think there's a whole lot of us that would probably end up doing exactly what he did, which is just to sort of look shocked and go back to doing your job until your producer tells you it's okay, it'll leave your seat.

But it did seem to, it did feel like there was a real lack of humanity there in that moment. Well, there's a sort of anchor professionalism that kicks in. Yes. We're on television. I got to keep the television show

going. But look, if I collapse on this podcast, I don't want you to throw it to Bobby to talk about rings culture for a couple of minutes while you text my wife. We just, we can just stop the podcast. Like, let's just take a moment. We have the ability to edit after the fact. So, you know, we're privileged that way. Wait, you guys want me to be editing this podcast? Especially the whole thing I said earlier, Bobby, you know what it's about. I'm sure you take that out. Man, no, I mean, it's a, it was a deeply weird situation. What is the, you as the, as the expert in journalism and journalistic ethics, what is the appropriate thing to do there? Is it, is it, is, is anchor mode actually the right choice just to try to throw it before anything else, before you do anything else?

No, you go to commercial. The person is saying right next to you. Yeah. Just to make this clear, because people couldn't see the clip. It's like, this is a, this is a guest in the studio. She fell out of a chair that was about five feet away from him and fell towards him. I think you just say, like, look, I don't. don't need word from the truck, we're just going to break.

Yeah. And we will figure this out. But do you have to say we're going to break or do you just go to help? Oh. And let's, and let the producers. You don't even worry about it. You just,

you just go to help. You don't even doing that bit of anchor professionalism. That was the appropriate response judging by people's reactions, at least in an immediate aftermath of the clip. It's like, no, go help your coworker. You know, like this is,

that's who cares about the TV show. Okay. So there's two levels of professionalism here. There's go to break. There's announce you're going to break. and then I guess the third level is throw it to the other guest to Phil. Like what would he have done if she had like if they were sitting closer and he had collapsed, she collapsed directly under his shoulder?

Like she was just leaning on him. Does he just be just like put his arm around her and just be like, we'll be right back after a few words from your sponsor. Oh my God. I'm just glad everybody's okay. That was a weird moment. All right, David, coming up in 30 seconds. Why is Joe Biden suddenly chatty?

Politico's Adam Wren will tell us. But first, let's do the overworked Twitter joke of the week where we celebrate a gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time. Send your nominees to at the press box pod where they are always, always gratefully received. As promised, David, we have a ton of jokes about the Pope. Chicago Pope, to name one such joke. That's a good one. Dub Pope also came in big.

Yeah, I saw a lot of Dub Pope. Did that make you a little uncomfortable in the fact that it's just not funny? Yeah, just sort of outdated. Like it felt exactly like a joke that somebody who was around then would have made. Right. Here are the actual funny ones. Number one, David, with Trump's tariffs in effect, we are now making popes in America. That's great.

Chicago got a pope before I got a quarterback to throw for 4,000 yards in his season. Fantastic stuff. Ironically, picking a pope from Chicago probably created a fair amount of Italian beef. It is now heretical to put ketchup on hot dogs. That's great. I love this one. Early exit polls suggest the new Pope did particularly well with male voters ages 45 to 79. Another one, please let him go out on the balcony to the Chicago Bulls music.

You'll know that people actually did this with a clip. So a couple of NFL draft jokes here. Your Holiness, you fell to the fifth round. Does that give you extra motivation? But the best was a visual joke from Timothy Burke, who had the white smoke coming out of the chimney paired with the ESPN NFL draft graphic, the pick is in.

That's great. Just great stuff. If you posted anything except de Pope, congrats. You made the overwork Twitter joke of the week. All right, in the notebook dump, David,

let us bring in one of our favorites. Adam Wren is a national politics correspondent for Politico, and it was announced last night that he is now a contributing author to Playbook and leading the Friday and Saturday editions of that newsletter. But here we like to think of Adam as our Pete Buttigieg Bureau Chief.

Adam, welcome to the press box. Thanks. I'm actually headed to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, to catch up with his first in-person town hall tomorrow. Notice you're in your car doing this interview as well. That's right. Do I get authenticity points here? political reporters so like us. They run errands, go to town halls just like we do. That's right.

All right, Adam. So many things to cover here, but let us begin with the former president because he has broken his silence. Yeah. Even though that act did include some odd pauses. Biden gave interviews to The View and one to the BBC. You and two colleagues wrote about this in Politico. Tell us, why is Biden breaking his silence now? Well, it conveniently comes just a few days before the earliest excerpts of the Alex Thompson, Jake Tapper book, Original Sin, much Ballyhooed, to use an only in journalism word, a book that is, you know, that is said to be damaging to his reputation, to his legacy.

And so in some ways, this uptick in appearances was designed to sort of pre-but the book, according to people familiar with the thinking of the strategy of these interviews here. They are hoping to show that he is still not in cognitive decline as they maintain, and they wanted to kind of put him out there ahead of the excerpts. We're expecting the first excerpts to drop sometime this week from, from this book that is said to have, you know, anecdotes that, that really show, and the author's telling a cover-up, and they've called it explosive, quote, end quote. And so I can't remember a Washington book that has had this much buzz around it. And, you know, this isn't the typical

Bob Woodward release. This is something that is much bigger than that and has kind of the PR muscle behind it to bear that out. This is bigger than a problem. Bob Woodward book because what? Because it's so urgent because it's such recent history because well I mean Brian Brian asked initially, you know, about the PR, about, you know, the the sort of fight for his legacy happening so quickly. Is that it is the battle is the battlefield right now? Is that what's going on?

I mean, yeah, I think Biden, Biden people who are, who are close to him would say that, you know, the reason why he's out there is because this litany of books that have have been coming out in the recent. weeks and that are still to come even after the release of original sin are calling him to get out there and to defend his honor and his legacy. And so, you know, he feels like he has to, has to do this to sort of burnish, you know, what his time in office was like. You know, we're seeing, you know, polls come out. We're seeing historical presidential rankings come out with him, you know, mired in the, you know, the 20s even, you know, farther down than that. And so, you know,

we haven't really had a media cycle like this greet a former president until only recently. I mean, if you go back to, you know, even Obama, there wasn't, you know, 30, you know, different morning cheat sheets or newsletters, media, substacks, podcasts like this one to sort of instantly assess a president's legacy. And so I think he feels the need to be out there. And and beating back some of these anecdotes and stories. And it comes at the same time that Democrats are trying to figure out how to either cut ties or pick up the ball and run from the Biden-era Democratic Party. So there's a lot of hand-wringing happening with Democrats in the wilderness.

So all of these forces sort of combined together to make him feel like he has to be out there. I mean, there's been some reporting, too, that Biden, Inc., this machine that it kept many of his family members gainfully employed and receiving money. Mark Halpern has reported that that that is tanking, that this is a money play. Other reporters suggest that he's, you know, he wants to have a voice in shaping where the party goes from here. And so I think all of those forces are kind of coming together. At the same time, you have the Trump administration, as we reported last week, privately threatening to release the, the HIR audio, that's the special prosecutor who is interview Joe Biden about documents that were mishandled, classified documents that were

mishandled. We've already seen the transcript of this interview, but the audio, you know, could potentially, you know, not sound great for him, you know, forgetting key facts about his life, his late son, Bo. And so that's something that they're anticipating to the Biden team. So watching the interview he did with a view over the weekend, Alyssa Farah Griffin got to ask the tough questions. Whoopi Goldberg and Joy Behard, not so much. What popped out to you about that interview? You know, it was interesting to me to see former first lady, Joe Biden, sort of by his side,

and she would, you know, jump in and sort of help him at times where he seemed to get off track. And so that was just a very stark reality to me. It wasn't just Joe Biden going to his safe place on the view. I think that was his dozenth appearance since 2000. 2007 on that show. So he's often retreated there at difficult times in his political career. But the fact that that Jill Biden was by his side, I think had the opposite effect of what people who put Biden out there wanted to convey that he was still with it, that he didn't need help. And so that really stuck out to me. You said people who put Biden out there. I mean, obviously, I guess President Biden or former

President Biden has the ability to, you know, call Whoopi Goldberg and say, hey, can I come on? But presumably, this is part of a deliberate media campaign. Tell us what you know about the people that are helping him out. Yeah. So the Biden world has hired Chris Marr. He's a former deputy principal of press secretary in the Biden White House. He also was the flack for former defense secretary Lloyd Austin, you know, when he had this surgical procedure and sort of went dark and caused kind of a mini-Washington. global scandal. And so Chris Marr has been brought on board since at least April to help him, you know, book him for some of these more partisan appearances that he's doing going after Trump after the first 100 days. Traditionally, we don't see a former president go after his successor in the first 100 days to give him some space, him or her, some space to establish themselves.

But we're past that now. And Biden is going after Trump a bit in some of these. these appearances. Now, Biden is provided with a federally funded, a taxpayer-funded spokesperson for his first six months out of office. But as he transitions beyond that, Mark, we know that Chris Marr, who, by the way, is a former Buttigieg spokesperson as well, in addition to his Biden world pedigree, is out here, you know, helping him get, you know, make some of these appearances. And also helping ease the transition to you know, the Biden Foundation, you know, the Biden Library that we're inevitably going to see at some point here in the next few months. Jordan Hudson was right there as a media advisor. So, congrats to President Biden for making the choice that he did. I want to ask you something

else, Adam, about another story you've reported on. Last month, you interviewed Alyssa Slotkin, who's the new Democratic Senator from Michigan. And she told you the party should drop the term oligarchy, which we've heard over and over again on the Bernie and AOC barnstorming tour. What is behind the oligarchy wars? Yeah, you know, she essentially just said that most average Michiganders, people that she talks to, don't understand exactly what that word means. And so she, this was part of an interview. She gave me ahead of a speech to her supporters back in Lansing, Michigan,

where she was laying out what she called a war plan. she's a former, you know, Defense Department, aid, National Security Council pedigree, who has helped plan some of these operations that we take place in other countries. And so she has a war plan for attacking Trump. And part of that is to drop the word oligarchy, you know. And in addition to that, she's saying that Democrats need to find some alpha energy. And she pointed to Detroit Lions coach Dan Campbell as a model of how they should be, how they should be channeling that alpha energy.

So I thought that was fascinating. The Dan Campbell model here is that he can bark at his players and cry once in a while. That's right. Democrats, she said, need to be able to do both. They can't just cry. They need to be able to bark as well. Did he cry at the national anthem? Or was that somebody else?

Anyway, crying in the national anthem. Siriani. That was Siriani, yeah. Okay. So maybe it's a combo model there, I guess, in my head. You said you're going to see Pete Buttigieg tonight. Yeah, actually, yeah, it's tomorrow night. Oh, tomorrow night.

And this is, and this is, what do you say, his first town hall? It's his first in-person, you know, voter, voter present town hall event since leaving the Biden administration in January. So he's going to be meeting with some veterans to talk about how the Trump president's, has impacted them in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. You know, regular people can go to this event and they're, you know, expecting upwards of a thousand, thousand people on the ground. So not quite Bernie AOC numbers, but pretty significant in a place like Cedar Rapids, Iowa, a state where he won the caucuses back in 2020. Sure. He's got a lot of support there. I guess from your, from, from your vantage point, we've had these conversations on this show about Tim Walls. I know,

there's obviously been a lot of discussion about Bernie and AOC, who you mentioned, Gavin Newsom's hanging around. At what point is it a given from the seat of your car as you're sketching out your next piece in your head? Is it a given that Pete Buttigieg is presently running for president of the United States? Or is this just part of the weird fabric of the world we live in now? Yeah, I mean, you sound, you remind me of my editors who are asking me the same question in real time. But I mean, I think my answer is, what are the incentives if you're a Democrat? for not running for president in 2028. I mean, there aren't there aren't a lot of incentives to not run. It's going to be a historically large field. You know, the last time he ran as a mayor of the fourth

largest city in Indiana, that helped him vault into a cabinet position. And so I think all the incentives here are to, are to run for president. And I think he is running. Now, what's fascinating to me is going to Iowa, which right now is not on the early nominating calendar for Democrats. And so, you know, this doesn't really ladder into the 2028 conversation beyond him just, you know, getting these images of being surrounded at a town hall by, quote, real Americans, end quote, and vets. And having that sort of luster at this point in the game. But he is in what his aides have called his DGAF mode right now, where he's throwing, he's throwing a lot of things. up on the wall and trying to figure out what works. He was just on the smartless podcast today. He's been on any number of sort of right-leaning podcasts. I'm like, as the Pete Buttigieg beat

reporter, I'm like several podcasts behind. So even I can't keep up with these appearances. But yeah, it's fascinating to watch. I think he's trying to figure out how Democrats can solve their podcast gap, their Joe Rogan gap, if you want to call it that, and communicate in a more broad way. And it's fascinating because he's actually not doing, you know, he came to prominence by having this go everywhere strategy where he would talk to, you know, the smallest podcast or the smallest regional local newspaper in Iowa. And now he's being like much more selective. He's not talking to mainstream outlets as much because he doesn't get asked, you know, news of the day questions that sort of pin him down on a particular issue. And he's trying to

break out of the echo chamber. David and I were talking before you came on, Adam, about the history of political beards. We know the Al Gore beard after he lost and had that wilderness period in his political career. How do we interpret the Pete Buttigieg beard? Yeah, this is funny. It's like you guys are in my Slack channels with my editors. We actually are. As media reporters, by the way, just FYI.

Okay. That off record, whatever you saw was off the record. But, oh, I mean, this is like, you know, I, I am doing these sort of stories about Democrats in the wilderness. And, you know, one story was how Democrats are cursing more. They're dropping the F-bomb more freely to sort of get that authenticity shine happening. And the latest iteration appears to be the beard. I mean, it's not just Pete Buttigieg who has a beard. Chris Murphy, the U.S. Senator, is sporting a fresh beard. And so, you know, Ruben Gallego has had a beard. So we are seeing the beard. So we are seeing the beard.

trend happening with Democrats. Now, J.D. Vance has a beard, and so, you know, he's looked at as a possible Republican nominee in 2028, so maybe they're trying to, like, check, check the beard gap that way. But, yeah, I mean, we're, you know, I've also noticed that Buttigieg is wearing more flannel lately. Now, part of that is because possibly that he's moved up to Traverse City, Michigan. but it's it's interesting to see all of the ways that Democrats are trying to be like real people in middle America and appeal to it's in counties kind of the 90% of counties across the U.S.

where Democrats last ground last November. I wonder in the last presidential campaign where both nominees had Beards was. We're going to have to go back to like Rutherford B. Hayes or something like that. It's going to be like the 10th paragraph of Adam's story. Yeah. We'll never forget.

So this, that's right. This helps me get all the B matter ready for my next dispatch. So I'll have to go research after we talk about this. It is. There's the flannel shirts. There's the beards. This all ties into the DGAF mode that you referred to earlier. There's a little bit of a performance to it. I mean, I think all of these things are deliberate to the extent that, you know, I'm guessing his razor didn't fall down into the toilet or something every morning. but I mean outside of outside of Buttigieg is can we interpret everything we see from Democrats out there as some sort of

no matter what they say a Kabuki theater putting themselves in line like you said for a potential presidential run? I think so. I mean there are murmurs that Alyssa Slotkin, who we name checked, is eyeing, you know, being a presidential candidate in 2028. I think it's hard not to. You know, it is starting earlier than it ever has started, a 2028 buzz, because you have, you know, a term limited candidate ostensibly, and according to the Constitution and Donald Trump. And so you have people getting out there earlier than ever before. So it's just, you know, even if these are the purest people who have no ambitions, even if that's the case, even if we take them at their word, it's sort of hard not to view.

these moves in light of 2028. And you know, we have the midterms right around the corner. And so there's just a lot of gesturing, a lot of politicking. We know, you know, Tim Walz has been out there. He's going to South Carolina. Maryland Governor

Westmore, both of them are going to be in South Carolina at roughly the same time in the next week or so. So it's just it's happening. And even if they say they're just focused on the current moment, It's just right around the corner and the race for donors and to figure out where the Democratic Party needs to go to here is on.

All right. Adam Wren, please call in from your car soon. Work on your own DGAF credentials. Thank you so much for coming on the press box. Good to be with you. Thanks for having me. All right. It is time for a feature that never needs to grow beard. It looks just fine like it is.

It's time for David Shoemaker guesses the strained pun headline. Yeah. Last Monday's headline about My Pillow Guys' efforts to start a streaming network was Sheet Show. Today's headline, David, once again from the New York Post. Hopefully a little bit better than ready, villain, and able. It's about Donald Trump's tariffs and the remarks Donald Trump made recently about toy shortages. Maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls. Trump said.

I want you to think about Barbie. Barbie, as you ponder, what was the New York Post's strained pun headline? I think there's one famous phrase involving Barbie. So, yeah, I was good. Malibu Barbie Barbie's Dreamhouse. Barbie's. A little more Australian than that.

Oh, shrimp on the Barbie? It's cartoonishly Australian. Shrimp on the Barbie. Oh, you're so close. Scrim. We're not going to have as many barbies, so we're going to have to. Is it rhyme with shrimp? Mm-hmm.

A little sk-skimp on the Barbie. Skimp on the Barbie. Skimp on the Barbie. Good stuff, New York Post. He is David Shoemaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Penex of Magic by Bobby Wagner. Joel Anderson's here Thursday.

You Shoemaker, you and I will have more lukewarm takes about the media next Monday. See you then, David. See you later, Ryan.