The Press Box - AOC, Francesca Hong, and the Battle for the Democratic Party. Plus: Stephen A. Smith, Journalist?

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Today on The Press Box, Bryan and David take a look at the Democratic Party. They talk about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s recent interview on ABC, Francesca Hong’s takes on holidays, and much more (8:30). Then in the notebook dump, they take a look at the discussion around whether Stephen A. Smith is still a journalist and if it's Greg Olsen’s time to be on the no. 1 broadcast team (45:03). Plus, the Overworked Twitter Joke of the Week, and David Shoemaker Guesses the Strained-Pun Headline! Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David Shoemaker Producers: Isaiah Blakely, Jon Jones, and Remy Hdz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Damn it. I'm back in Los Angeles. New York month is over. Not for me. You're now in the New York office. Yeah, it's true. This is very exciting. I wrapped up my East Coast residency.

That's what we're looking for? Yeah. With a family trip to Boston. Amazing. Have you done the Boston trip recently? Okay, let me give you the absolutely on the nose family things to do in Boston. Okay.

Regina Pizza in Boston's North End. It's kind of just the the Boston Pizza Spot. I'm sure there are better ones. Save your emails. I don't care. The Freedom Trail Tour where someone in colonial dress

takes you to Samuel Adams' grave and the site of the Boston Massacre. Freedom Trail evokes something else for me. What am I thinking of? That doesn't, that doesn't, it looks like freedom trail is like the founding of our country. But go ahead. It was one of those famous American landmarks that I didn't know much about.

Uh-huh. Until arriving in Boston. I was like, yeah, of course you do the freedom trail. Yeah, of course you do. The freedom trail. I learned all about it while it was going on. I'm an idiot. All right. Boston Common, we went there.

But most importantly, I went to the legendary Brattle Bookshop. Yes. which was just a couple of blocks from my hotel. Now, there is a gentleman who works at Brattle Bookshop, Zach Marconi, who's a great friend of this podcast and a friend of mine as well. So my son was in there with me and he took us to the basement. And I'll put this picture up on Instagram so people can see it. But all the books, they're going to go out to the Corels next to Brattle Bookshop.

Oh, yeah. Brattle, you have an empty lot with Corels full of books that cost $5 or $3. There were thousands. and I mean thousands of books stacked up at the basement ready to go out to the corrals that had not been looked over by human eyes other than Zach's. Right. We saw those. There was a stack, and this is me telling you how great this book story is, there was a stack of 6,000 copies, yes, 6,000 copies of Life magazine in the basement of the Brattle Book Show. I thought you're going to say Catcher in the Rye.

Go ahead. Oh, waiting to be picked over. I bought a number of copies of 80s and 90s Time magazine, which is more. more urinized thing rather than old issues of life with Eleanor Roosevelt on the camera. It's funny how the more disposable media has, a medium has become, is just like a more fun thing to carry around and page through, you know,

just like the novelty of it. Yes, and why do you think that is? Is it because it's a moment in time? Yeah, books are, the great books are timeless. And also we've just been around long, like the idea of being shocked by a,

by a certain printing of a book. You know me, like I'll see, if I, back in the day, if I saw a cover of a book that I've made, the British paperback edition, like 100% I'm buying that, you know? But I've kind of seen most of the stuff now, you know? And there's not a, there's certainly,

there's not, there's nothing that's going to, like, shock me too much. But an old magazine, you're just like, oh my God, like, this happened? These two things happened on the same day. That's the great thing about a magazine where they have, like, the multiple headlines, you know, on the front,

where you're just like, those two things connect somehow, but it's only this issue of Esquire that connects them. It's pretty cool. So most men, when they get into their middle age, start getting into jazz. You and I got into old magazines?

Yes. Is that what happened? Totally. Wash you and I just did a whole podcast about this. And speaking of amazing moments and time, he gave me the issue of Entertainment Weekly that was published right after 9-11. Oh my God.

I'm just imagining Ryan Raftery and the whole cast of Entertainment Weekly being like, okay, what's our bite at this apple? Do you have a book, by the way, that you would buy, even if you already have it, no matter where you are? Is there like you have that catcher in the ride? Like, you know, crazy person has a million copies

that Cratcher in the Rye thing? Hall of Ruse travelugs. I have bought so many copies. Yeah. And I've forgotten how many copies I bought. So now I'm buying triples when I thought I was buying doubles. if that makes any sense what's yours well along those lines you know as a designer I love like a series design but because of the series design I have bought duplicate and triplicate of McPhee

James Harrison Jim Harrison sorry I'm trying to think if there's any other ones oh certainly Jim Thompson you know where it's just like you see it you're like I don't know if I've read that one you know and it's like you get home it's like oh I have four copies and here's the one with it's highlighted you know like but it's it's I clearly have um For me, True Grid is the one. I published, I was fortunate to work at a small press that had republished a lot of Charles Portis back in the day.

And so part of that is that you constantly, like we ordered old copies, you know, just to have them in the office for reference of old paperbacks, old hardcoverers. And then some of them ended up in my possession. And then for some reason, it's true grit has so many cool old additions that I would just pick them up all the time, the mass market, whatever. And now it's just reflex. If I see True Grit, you know, pre-modern edition of True Grit, I buy it.

And Dog of the South, too. Do you buy that as a gift for someone, or are you just stacking them all up on your shelf? No, I just want to keep them. I want to keep them away from everybody else by owning the cornering the market. You're trying to drive up the price of gold only true grit. Exactly, exactly. No, I mean, True Grit is, I mean, True Grit is Robbie Portis' best book, but it's so different than all of his other stuff. Like, Dog of the South is the real secret handshake.

You know, Dog of the South is the one that, like, I would give as a gift, and people would be, would be, you know, so, I mean, also, the one that I give as a gift a lot is James Crumley. Oh, he's so good. James Crumley's trilogy, if you ever find that as one unit, I will get that and hand that to people because that's an incredible one. But, yeah, but no, I usually just buy it a tow hoard. One of my friends pressed to James Crumley book into my hands a couple years ago, and I have loved him even more than I already did before that. All right, so if you see a scarcity of Charles Portis novels at Brattle Bookshop or elsewhere, blame David and send him your emails and also the second and third best pizza restaurants in Boston. Please direct those to David as well.

Coming up on the press box, David and I are going to dive into the battle between the centrists and the lefties that's roiling, only in journalism, the Democratic Party, plus a monster Washington Post scoop. Is Stephen A. Smith a journalist? and is it finally Greg Olson's time to get a big job. All that and much more on the press box, a part of the ringer podcast network. Hello, media consumers.

It's Brian Curtis from L.A. It's David Shoemaker from New York. It's producers, Isaiah Blakely and John Not Bones-Jones with you. David, let me give you a couple of discreet news events. Abdul El-Sayed won in Michigan last week. He did? By the time people hear this podcast. Francesca Hong may be the Democratic nominee for governor in Wisconsin.

Correct. A Democratic Socialists of America co-chair is still pondering a question from David Remnick. Even more people, David, are angry at James Carville. And Thanksgiving may have been canceled. All of those are scenes from the battle for the Democratic Party. The soul of the Democratic Party. Oh, that's a good one. You know, I first heard that when Jesse Jackson was running against,

was it Jesse Jackson versus Bill Clinton? Was that posed as the battle for the soul of the Democratic Party? It's a phrase that. Jackson was the last man standing. That could very well be true. Hearing just about my entire life. But I thought we'd go into some further scenes from this battle, which is playing out right now in front of America.

Let's start with AOC. She was on ABC's this week with Jonathan Carl. Good job winning the Sunday booking wars Johnny Carl. And of course Carl asked the question, are you thinking about running for president in 2028? Or maybe running for Senate since Chuck Schumer is 75 and will be up for your election in two years. Yeah.

And AOC responded, I think that anything is possible at this juncture. She was also asked about Francesca Hunt. Hong, the likely Democratic nominee for governor in Wisconsin, here's what she said about Hong. My understanding is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate. Yeah, she's moved away from it. Right, she's moved away from it.

And I have a local city councilman that has this saying, woke one was crazy. woke one was crazy Woke one was crazy That phrase got a whole bunch of attention on Twitter By the way As an interviewer of politicians Myself if an amateur one

When a politician takes you to a place like that You're just absolutely grateful Oh yeah Because you don't even have to attempt the transition That's what I was going to say Because do you have further to go or because you just already know you already got there? You already got there. Yeah.

I mean, could Jonathan Carl have said, hey, you know, by the way, you once mused about defunding the police? Yeah. Now you're in a different place politically. Yeah, he could have asked her that. I'm not sure he gets there or gets there as gracefully. But when she says the words woke one, it's like, oh, speaking of which, I'd love to ask you, too, about some of your past statements. Yeah. just like we talked about Francesca Hong.

So here was the follow-up, and here is how AOC talked about the so-called woke-one period American life. I mean, did the movement go too far with some of those positions? I mean, you briefly supported the idea of defunding the police. Well, you know, I think that during this time, and during, especially during COVID, there was a huge opening of the overtime window. We were shut down. There was some of the highest unemployment rates that we have.

seen because of those shutdowns. And I think that the doors were really open in trying to entertain any and every policy that was going to get us to a better place. And I actually think that the discussions that were had in that time were quite fruitful. I think that when we talk about crime today, it's fundamentally different than the way that we talked about crime in bringing crime down, right? And I think that we all share in the goals of having as love. a crime rate as possible. I think that, you know, during lockdown, of course, rhetoric in that time is not rhetoric that we would use today. And I'm grateful that these candidates have the opportunity to present who they are to their electorate and what they're campaigning on in this moment.

So that's the fuller answer that a lot of people commenting on AOC's answer did not either hear or at least refer to. What did you make of her talking about her past positions and past positions of allies. I think that when she said the words, woke one was crazy, not to over-simplify it, because obviously that's the opposite of what you just said, but there was something in her face that was really telling, and I don't think I can really parse it out. We haven't seen enough of the AOC. I mean, and I think we're going to see an increasing amount of, I don't know if it's going to be, you know, Hunter Biden levels, but the, but the Carl interview kind of felt like the campaign kickoff, or we'll look back on it that way. I think it'll be one, it'll always be the best get for so many of these

comments for all these media outlets but I think it'll be a lot less scarce on national platform is moving forward my own guess so you think she's going to do a lot of interviews but it'll be like the majority report rather than your conventional Sunday morning Jake Tapper type of interview

yeah I just think that she will that now this is my guess is that this will be the beginning of her willingness to say yes to interviews where they will be asking her about whether she's running for higher office right I mean this is so all interviews Yeah, I mean, no, but I think that I think there will be a lot of majority report type stuff. I think that she's just open to it.

We'll see. That's just conjecture. I don't know. I mean, I think that in a lot of ways that what she, her explanation, I think, was really smart and was really correct. But I think just like being willing to have the conversation, being willing to say woke one was crazy and performatively laugh about it on the air was sort of like a necessary lift for Democrats in general moving forward. and the fact that she kind of took it on herself. You know, it's the sort of thing that a lot of politicians are not always willing to do. You just sort of like insist that people forget about the past instead of actually addressing it even in the sort of vague, jokey way.

So I'm not saying it was like impressive, but it was interesting. The rest of, you know, the answer was right on. But just watching AOC in a serious interview in general is always such a meta experience because you're already imagining how the right and how the center left are going to respond to it in real time as you're listening to her talk. You know what I mean? Yep. That it's hard for me to even like answer a question about the content. You know, it's like I see as terrible as it is. Like you got to listen to her because you, because I myself am sitting here saying, I'm falling in this trap.

or like, I feel like I know AOC more by the, by like, the quote tweets about her than I do about, like, for what she actually says. And usually from a live stream rather than an interview like this. Yeah. I thought the same thing. I thought the interview was almost giddy. It was just had a very funny tone to it. Maybe I just haven't watched enough Jonathan Carl lately. He almost seemed to be just utterly pleased to have AOC there on his set.

answer questions. She's also just incredibly charismatic, which can get lost in the discourse about her. I think that you would see that sort of giddiness. And Carl is, I can imagine him laughing along with whoever he's interviewing. But it's a sort of reaction that like, and I'm not equating them, but it's a sort of reaction that like Obama would get, right? Like you get him in the room and suddenly it's just like, you're just like knee slapping and having a great time because he's just like so charismatic. He's a good politician. She's a good politician. But also, like, there's a humanity to it. And maybe that's part of being a good politician.

And maybe it's all a put on. But you feel like you're actually engaging with somebody in the room and not just with a character. It's funny. When I watched this interview, I thought this about AOC. She's very good on a live stream. We saw her this week talking about freezing her eggs. She's very good at a conventional political speech. Yeah.

For two years ago at the DNC in Chicago. She was fantastic, one of the best speakers I thought in that an entire week for the Democrats. She just has not done a lot of conventional news interviews by choice, nor all that many podcasts. Yeah. She also, since she beat Joe Crowley in that Democratic primary now that feels like a million years ago, she just has not campaigned very much. So we are now going to see her if she is indeed running for president or even for Senate in New York in very different places. I mean, just imagine her on a stage with a bunch of other Democrats that will be happy to bring up a thing she said six years ago in their attempts to try to beat her in a primary. I mean, that's just, again, she's been part of the war.

She's been out there campaigning for Abdul El-Sayed and other candidates, but she has not been in that particular case. And I think that's really canny. I think that's probably, I mean, entirely deliberate because you got to know as soon as she gets elected that you could never achieve not just the presidency, but like the Senate. if people see you as part of the establishment. You know, if people see you as, as a familiar face even, you know, and so you got to kind of play scarce a little bit and figure out their exact lane to maintain some of that outsideriness. And, you know, like you said, I mean, I think it's,

I think that opening yourself up to it now is, is intriguing. And I think you were, you know, you're going to get to know her a lot better, is as far as we can tell, probably a good thing. I'm very interested to see how much follows from this. Does she start doing pods like every other potential 28 candidate who's out there getting reps? Does she put herself in that position? Or is she kind of in a tier like Kamala Harris, where she feels like people know what

they need to know about me? I certainly don't need visibility. I don't need name ID like another candidate would. Dude, if we weren't talking about the split in the Democratic Party, and I'm not just talking about you and me. If the world wasn't so obsessed with Abdul Aseid, the entire news cycle would be about her freezing her regs. And that's not because of what the newsworthiness of it.

It's because the entire right-wing media machine is like cranking out posts about it, right? I mean, people that I like and respect are like, is she, is she, I mean, ideologically separate from me, but are like, is she, what was it? Was it the bulwark who had the piece of that? was she doing it to like hide campaign money or she no she was refraining from getting married so that she could hide money or something through her, through her fiance. It's like people are obsessed with her on the right.

And she doesn't need to be doing more media to get the kind of exposure that most politicians would like die for, you know? And frankly, because of where she comes from politically right now, it's like negative pieces aren't bad for her. You know, like they don't reach the middle people, the people in the middle. And they probably make the people on the left, like, applaud that she's getting dragged. And, you know, the people that those stories are actually reaching would never be getable anyway. Yeah, and they convince people she's not the establishment to go back to what you said a few minutes ago.

Yeah. I do think, too, something we've seen, we saw this with El Ced, Michigan, and we'll see it even more in 28 is, to what extent will the Democratic primary run through people like Jonathan Carl? Kristen Welker, too, not just to single him out. But does it matter? If you're really good on a live stream, maybe that's all you need. Maybe that gets you 75% of the way there. I think the necessity. Oh, go ahead.

No, just being able to, you know, banter and, you know, joust in an interview like this just doesn't matter that much anymore. I'm not sure. Especially if you start with that kind of name ID, that kind of following online, and that kind of movement within the Democratic Party. So I think that the answer is you have to be good at both. and experience in both. And I think part of the whole Hassan Piker thing

that we're going to talk about is just like a generation of politicians and media members who just aren't familiar with what streaming is. You know, like, just don't, would not be good. Remember last cycle it was like, the idea of a politician being able to like just sit across from Joe Rogan for two hours was mind-boggling.

Like, what, two hours with him? You know? Like, I'll give him 15 minutes or say, you know what? Four minutes. Yeah, exactly. So I think being able to do both is really important. And being able to change gears to do both, which you saw AOC do, right? By the way, AOC is the acronym, whatever, the initials that we're also used to,

I still can't wrap my head around AES for, I'll say that, right? Like every time I see AES, it takes me a minute to remember who we're talking about. I completely agree. But yeah, I mean, I think that the, just to put it very broadly, I think that she needs to continue. You do mainstream Jonathan, Carl, Kristen Welker interviews when they are about something, you know? When it's like when you are the person they want to talk to, when you can be the whatever. I mean, it's mostly bad examples, right?

If you can be the Lindsey Graham on international intervention that meet the press calls every time something like that happens, that's when you go do those shows. You avoid doing this strictly like, like I am running for president. I'm probably running for president type spots in national media until the last minute. But, you know, save that for the streams. You know, save that sort of personality. But yeah, you start doing the big interviews when you can be the voice for your point of view. For a particular issue. Yeah.

She may just be so big that that's just impossible at this point. I mean, everybody's going to ask. we would ask if she were on this show. She's going to have to be super deliberate about it. And also signal, I mean, you talked about majority report type stuff. Yeah, she's going to be signaling a lot to her fans into potential voters about herself by what she chooses to do. You know, which shows she chooses to go on. I'm sure it's like three quarters of her strategy now is just saying no, you know, and deciding when to say yes.

Let's talk about Francesca Hong. She's 37 years old She's a chef She's a Democratic Socialist She's a member of the Wisconsin State Assembly Representing parts of Madison She's leading every poll for governor by double digits Primary is tonight

Tuesday night She is not endorsed by Bernie Sanders and AOC She holds positions That are from the so-called woke one She talked about defunding the police in the past Now she says she doesn't want to defund or abolish the police since she's been running, we've seen a lot of

old comments or posts about holidays. This is from Julie Bosman at the Times. Valentine's Day, Hong wrote in 2022, brings out, quote, the worst of humanity on a day, quote,

capitalism tells you how to show love. Halloween, Hong said in 2025, is, quote, not my thing. quote, I do not enjoy fireworks, Hong wrote several days before the 4th of July in 2019. Wasn't this a Brian Curtis bit? What's the deal with fireworks? The fireworks are overrated. Yeah, okay.

And weirdly, and in a related note, Andrew Kaczynski, K-File over at CNN, has a piece today where he found a video where Abdul El-Sayed is also bagging on fireworks. I'm not kidding. I'm much more interested in who's the pro-file. Who's actually going to put their name on a pro-fireworks column? Well, that's what I love. I mean, this honestly sounds like a really bad podcast bit. Yeah. Okay, guys, I have a hot take here.

I kind of don't like fireworks. I mean, did the Golics roll that out a couple of weeks ago for the Fourth of July? It just doesn't sound like... Oh, yeah, no. I remember the Brian Curtis take was, who were we applauding for exactly? We're applauding. Everybody applauding. Yeah, everybody applauded.

Yay America. Like, I've indulged in what is kind of a bad podcast bit, but this does not feel terribly controversial? No, it's more like, it's more like you a little bit eye-roly because it's like, yes, it's like the overworked Twitter jokes, right? Like, these are opinions that everybody's had at a given moment and probably should resist tweeting out, but whatever, it's you're being yourself. The Valentine's Day thing, capitalism, I guess, I co-sign that absolutely. Valentine's Day is the worst. Halloween. Halloween I like.

I always watch those old episodes of Home Improvement when we were kids where Tim Allen would be wearing like really elaborate Halloween costumes. Sure, that's fun. But you can never live up to that. That's the thing. I was like, I don't find the show funny, but I want to be that dad someday. Yeah. Being a dad, being a dad changes Halloween immensely, right? It does.

I don't want to be one of those people that's at like other big parties with adults wearing costumes, but I want to be like the dad who's kind of way too in a home. 100% yes. But prior to that, I don't care about Halloween. Remember, I mean, God, in our 20s, Halloween was just like, well, it's what your uncle would call it would call it an amateur hour, right? You just go to, you're like,

my local bar is now filled with people in taco costumes. I don't understand what's happening. That's true. The one opinion that drew Francesca Hogg, a lot of attention were, was her take on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving, a holiday known as a time when all of America

gathers to watch the Dallas Cowboys lose, on national television. Here is Hong's take. Let the lions off the hook there. Go ahead. Here's Hong's take to Caitlin Collins on CNN. They brought up as well

was a post from you in 2021 where you said Americans should cancel Thanksgiving, should have done this in 1621. The post has been deleted. Republicans have been highlighting it. Do you still believe that Thanksgiving should be canceled?

I'm a chef and one of the first meals that I made. that was for the community when I was 16 was a Thanksgiving meal. I always think my hospitality background in owning a restaurant for seven, eight years, that bringing folks around the table to share conversation and build community is always a good thing. But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our communities. And so I think there I wanted to make sure that people understood that there are multiple views,

but views can evolve. And the position that I'm running for right now, and I think my background as a chef, will actually help me become a better governor that's able to bring more people to the table. Again, that full answer has a lot more context and a lot more nuance than she wants to cancel Thanksgiving. I did laugh at the, they should have canceled it in 1621.

I don't know why that's funny. It's just hilarious, yeah. That just makes me laugh. I actually think the rest of the holiday tweets defend, I mean, make me feel, I think, make me feel better about the Thanksgiving tweet, which is she's just sort of a curmudgeon. And that's, and that, and actually, like, maybe that's the sort of personality that should be running your state, you know, as opposed to just somebody who's just a bully, just over-the-top excited about every freaking holiday, which is the people we normally elect.

Yeah, I mean, whatever. I should have mentioned this when you were talking about AOC, but one of the, one of the interesting things about, I think, of the real advantage she has in being a national figure for so long, when that's nominally a negative, is that all of her old takes, all of her cold takes, bad takes, whatever, just sort of get put aside because you're like, well, she's been in my life for a decade, so we must have worked through that, right?

Like, she hasn't gotten canceled or fired or removed from office yet. So anything old is just sort of thrown out. But when someone's new, then you have this gold mine of old tweets, of old posts or whatever, and you can just ask them about each one. It doesn't matter if immediately after that there's a response where you said, ha, ha, ha, I'm just joking. You're still going to get questioned about it on TV. So to some extent, I think that younger voters just roll the rise at these lines of questioning.

Ten years ago, you tweeted, like, nobody cares, right? Like, nobody takes that stuff seriously. Is it part of your current platform or not? But to the extent that, like, you're going to be asked about it, I mean, part of that sort of inevitable and I think part of that is going to be pointed out as people saying look at legacy media dying right in front of our eyes. It's as much about posting it as it is a battle for the Democratic Party. Yeah.

I mean, I just, yeah, I think so and I think we're still, we meaning the, you know, media, the big media is still just figuring out how to talk about this stuff. It really is. Related note from Will Staken in political playbook today is that Francesca Hong, if she wins on Tuesday night is looking to shake up her comms team and rapid response team, which may be related to some of this stuff. I also want to second this tweak from our old friend Jay Kang.

He wrote this, the thing that happened in sports where people started thinking like general managers is happening on here with regard to politics where everyone is trying to be like a comms manager. Yes. If you're really trying to give advice or trying to control the narrative,

please stop and just post. I absolutely agree. I cannot tell you how many people I saw. I be like, here's what Francesca Hong should have said. Dude, I didn't even see that. Thanksgiving. How is that our job? I didn't see that tweet, but I have been, I have like notes in the margins right here about the exact same thing.

It's like somehow the horse race method of looking, of, you know, looking at elections, which we've, which we hate, has morphed into the campaign manager method. We're all just like trying to correct and trying to decide who should be run, which candidates are better in the general election from the primary. Like why, like how it, why does this conversation matter at all? It has absolutely no bearing on the reality, which is who wins. It's not whether, are we just trying to make predictions so that we can say we were right if the person loses? Like it's all, it's just all pretty incredible.

And yeah, knowing, being a comms director, it's just, it does. doesn't matter. Like, those tweets don't matter at all. They don't sway anybody. They just, the same people are having the same conversations with each other, you know,

and it's just like circular, well, not firing squad, but you know what I mean. Yeah, and it's just fundamentally as journalists, it's not our job to help politicians ace the test. No.

Maybe it's the Pod Save guy's job, and it actually was their job once upon a time, but it's not my job. I want to know what they actually think. If AOC's views have evolved since 2020, I want to know how, how and why in the most honest way possible that she's thinking differently now.

Like that's interesting to me. Genuinely interesting to me. Not give me the perfect answer so we'll stop asking you about it. Like it's just stupid. That just doesn't, it doesn't help us learn about these people at all. It just should be the idea, right?

We are trying to learn about these people. And readers who aren't engaged in that sort of discourse are like are grading the candidates It's based on whether or not they do the thing that their favorite podcaster or tweet or said, right? You're just like, well, Francesca Hong's a bad candidate because she didn't do it with the Midas Touch guys said she should do it.

You know, it's just like it doesn't, like that has no bearing on reality. What else I got for you at the battle for the Democratic Party? Michael La Rosa, disaffected former Biden World guy. It was Jill Biden's spokesman. Speaking of comms people. came out and said he won't support Abdul El-Sayed.

Now he's also mad at Pod Save America for removing, and I think in fact they just changed a clip of Chris Hayes talking about Hassan Piker. Oh, yeah. That's a thing that happened. This guy had to exist, right? Like Fox News needed this person who was like, I'm a Democrat, and I cannot in good conscience endorse Abdul El-Said please do all of our shows.

If what? I was going to say if the devil didn't exist, we'd have to create him, but it's God, right? That's the Voltaire line. There's a Dasoevsky line that's kind of similar. That may be about the devil. But you know what I mean. He would exist whether or not it was this guy.

This guy is, I mean, I don't know if. Is this a situation? Is this a wrestling thing where it's like, if I'm mad at him, I'm getting worked because he's just doing, he's doing schick. You are getting worked. Absolutely. Yeah.

Maybe it's a, real. Maybe it's real for all I know, but just this person had to, there had to be. No, I think it is real and I think you would have to exist. Yeah, absolutely true. And by the way, former spokesman for Jill Biden is just like the funniest. It truly is.

Like, have you had to guess whether or not you would agree politically with the former spokesman for Jill Biden, you would say, absolutely not. Like, there is no world in which that person is not a Republican, basically, you know, and you're just like, yes, okay, it turns out they are. You're not nodding along saying, you know, the former spokesman for Jill Biden is

making a lot of sense. Exactly. He has the finger on the pulse of the electorate. Joe Scarborough was mad at Hassan Piker. You brought this to my attention. Here is the host of Morning Joe. You had Donald Trump, obviously and rightfully catching a lot of grief when Nick Fintes came to the White House and had dinner with him.

I would guess, though, if you had a Republican campaigning with Nick Fintz across America, yeah, there would be questions asked. the same thing with Piker here. I don't watch a ton of morning, Joe. So when I was watching this clip, I was just absolutely amazed at the range of guests that were on the screen. We had Joe and Mika sitting together.

We had Jonathan Lemire. We had Pablo Torre. Probably has been doing some MSNBC reps. MS now, sir. Don't you dare call it MSNBC. This is news and opinion about our world. Pablo had said something interesting in this segment where he said, you're talking like Nick Fuentes is the comp.

I think Charlie Kirk is actually the better comp to Hassan Piker. Yeah. Which I thought was really, really interesting. Also, when I hear the Hassan Piker stuff, I'm like, I totally understand. If you, when you have surrogates come out, it's totally fair game to say, hey, if this person is your surrogate,

do you believe what they said in the past, even if everyone has distanced themselves from that particular remark about 9-11? but Mike Rogers has been endorsed and supported by Donald Trump. Yeah. Donald Trump has a lot of things that he has said over the years. Are we going to go up to Mike Rogers and be like, hey, do you agree with Donald Trump's? Not just Donald Trump. Every other Republican who's endorsed him, half of them have said things that are so far beyond the pale that they make a San Piker just look like whatever the most boring word I could say right now is.

That's what I mean. It's like, do you agree that Rob Reiner should rest in piss like Donald Trump thinks? Yes. I'm sorry. Which he didn't apologize for, which he didn't, you know, which he didn't retract, you know. No, what you feel? He clearly feels that way. First of all, most of the people who are mad, most of the moderate liberals, whatever,

the moderate dems that are mad at Hassan Piker have never listened to Hassan Piker. It's the same thing. They're also the same people, by the way, that four years ago were saying, we need to have our own Joe Rogan. By the way, no one's ever been, no Republican has ever been. asked to defend Joe Rogan's previous statements, you know, like the things that he said randomly on a podcast seven years ago. Also, and we can, we might edit this out of the podcast, but like, I think Hassan Piker, I think it's crazy to say that America deserve 9-11, but if you've, but the level of vitriol that that comment gets from people like Joe Scarborough shows me people

that have never wondered why, and that to me is the most damning thing. There's two kinds of people. if you get randomly punched in the face either the people that either punch back which are the kind of people we traditionally celebrate and traditionally get ahead in life and the people that say, why did that happen? Did I do something to make him punch me? Right? And the answer is probably no. I didn't do anything.

He's a crazy person, whatever. But if you don't ask the question, then you're not the sort of person I want in politics. You know, like you have to actually be thoughtful and be like wonder about such things. And I'm not saying that was what Piker said. I'm saying that like the way that people respond to that quote, if they do it honestly, shows a lot about who they are. But yeah, it's just, I mean, it's, the imbalance is crazy.

And the way that the way that the moderate Dems are have, are dogpiling Piker, and by the way, not succeeding at running him out of endorsing anybody or saying on the stage with anybody, it's just frankly embarrassing, you know, it's just like it, I mean, comparing him to Donald Trump is one thing, Dude, if Donald Trump was on was live streaming for three hours a day, would that, do you know how many more problematic things would be said? If Tucker Carlson was live streaming for hours a day, not like performance, not like podcast performing, you know how many problematic, how many so much worse things would be said?

Our vice president, buddies with Tucker Carlson goes on his show. The things that he said, or things that he says. Or just tweeted the other day where he's making fat jokes on Twitter. It's like, okay, sure, you know. it's absolutely crazy and the only thing you can do is drag up one irreverent comment from seven years ago that he's retracted and apologized

for it's like absolutely mind-boggling these are people who are just afraid of change they're afraid that James Carville is he on the rundown James Carville is worried that he's going to get run out of town there's no use for him anymore he used to be Hassan Piker mostly based on his accent more so

than his politics but still he was just like he was the the loudmouth liberal you know he was the guy that you could be trusted to say the the appropriately lefty thing on any broadcast. That's why he and by correlation, by by by by corollary his wife, uh, were, we're constantly on TV all the time. But, you know, if in, in the modern world, there's no use for dinosaurs like him. Before we move on, I want to talk to you about this Washington Post scoop,

which is not about the Democrats, but it is about Donald Trump. This is from the embattled Washington Post, David. The beleaguered Washington Post. The troubled Washington Post. Still coming out punching. Scoop by Dan Lamoth, John Hudson, Andrew Botran, and Joyce Shohun Lee. The headline is contradicting public statements. Trump took secret flight from Turkey amid Iranian threat.

It's just a real zinger of a headline there. I love the headline, but I also love that they were able to use this phrase in the subheadline, elaborate ruse. Which is just a wonderful, wonderful only in journalism phrase. I'll read the top of the story here. An Iranian assassination threat against President Donald Trump prompted an extraordinary operation last month. Extraordinary is another favorite, only in journalism word, by the way, in which he

flew secretly from Turkey on alternate military aircraft while the White House said he was aboard Air Force One, the Washington Post has learned. The article continues, in Ankara, Trump, to the old Air Force One jumbo jet in view of television cameras. He was secretly shuttled minutes later to a smaller plane, an Air Force C-32A via an airport catering truck typically used to load meals and other supplies pre-flight. How big was this truck?

Was that the catering card? You do see that right when you're at the airport. They have the big ones. You're like 10 minutes away from boarding. And you're sitting at the gate, and you're starting to get a little antsy, and then you see the truck come up on the lift to the door, and you're like, okay.

But is it, like, actually big enough for a over six-foot-tall Rotund Fellow to climb inside? And his staff, according to this piece. Yeah. Like, other people got into the catering. The times, I wish I'd taken a picture of it because it's gone now, but on the front page had something like Trump hid in catering cart to change planes, which is just wonderfully funny image, especially if you think of, like, typical airplanes.

food that Trump was in there where they have the foil tops over the hot meal so that they stay hot until the flight attendant rips it off in front of you after you've chosen the pasta or the chicken. This is just an unbelievable story. And what's unbelievable too is

remember the first version of the story which was reported in the New York Times. Which was that the new Air Force One that came from Qatar lacked some of the defense systems of the old Air Force one. So therefore Donald Trump was taking the old Air Force One out of Turkey due to security

concerns. Well, it turns out he wasn't even on the old Air Force one. He was on a completely different plane. And I'd also like to know why or just the thought process behind Donald Trump's DOJ issuing subpoenas to New York Times journalist after that first story came out. Because they were saying, wait to say, we want to know where the leak was in the government that got you the scoop. Usually you don't go to court. when something is being concealed, in this case that Donald Trump was not even on Air Force One original recipe, he was on a completely different plane.

It's just unbelievable. It's crazy. You think this is probably why he was so pissy when the time story came out because he knew the second part was coming, and I think just intrinsically it's embarrassing to hide in a food truck and be forced to switch to another plane because you're, you know, when you're a man like Trump? It feels like if that is the case and that feels definitely like something Donald Trump would feel,

why would you just start issuing subpoenas at that point? I don't know. It's freaking crazy. Does that help? None of it makes any sense. I mean, Trump and his, everyone related to him don't have a very good grasp of the legal system. So maybe not too shocking. But yeah, it is very bizarre.

And it's really bizarre how this store, I mean, just, since this is a media podcast, do the journalists who didn't make, get onto Air Force 3 or whatever we're calling it, have a right to be upset that they were sitting ducks flying in Air Force 1 thinking that Trump was there when he wasn't there for a national security threat. Absolutely. Beyond the idea of we should just know where our president is, that's part of transparency, right? We should know where you are. We should know things about you, which sometimes all presidents, but especially this one, don't want to tell us. Yeah, like, wait, I was on the plane that you didn't feel. was secure enough to fly on from Turkey?

Yeah. But I still got to ride on it. Interesting. It is. Well, also, I guess it also flies in the phase of all the lies that he gets the Trump Canadians to tell about Iran, right? Like, if there's actually that credible a threat that he could not fly in literally Air Force One or Air Force Two, that makes him look kind of weak.

But yeah, yeah, it's a, what a bizarre, bizarre story. Congrats on the scoop to Lamoth and Associates over at the Washington Post, which is still kicking some ass, particularly on military affairs and national security. All right, David, coming up in 30 seconds, thoughts on the journalistic career of one, Stephen A. Smith. But first, let's do the overworked Twitter joke of the week where we celebrate a gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time. Send your nominees at the Press Box Pod, where they're always, always gratefully received. Today's nominee comes from Mike Shaw. You saw the story about Janine Piro

withdrawing the charges against the Olympic canoeist, which is another phrase that makes me smile every time it crosses my lips about the damage done to the reflecting pool. Yeah. There's an overworked Twitter joke to write. Are you saying the DOJ withdrew the pool vandalism indictment upon reflection?

Trump has asked him to refile, by the way. I think that just came out before we started recording. Yeah, that was that whole wonderful, again, speaking of great stories, the White House confrontation between Puro and Trump and Doug Bergam. You also smile at the words Olympic Canoists.

Congrats. You made the overall Twitter joke of the week. All right, just some quick ones before we get out of here. Stephen A. Smith and journalism. Have you been following this story? No. What is this? So Mike Wilbon went on the awful announcing podcast and said that Stephen A. Smith is no longer a journalist.

That he's a show. Yeah. And, of course, this brought a response from Stephen A. Smith himself, from everybody. You know, it's one of those things where people are like, yes, yes, finally somebody said it. And Wilbon, of course, is saying it in the context of any of us who host shows are no longer journalists. Jamel Hill's old phrase for this was former journalist because she was trying to make a distinction between somebody hosting a show and somebody who's actually working a locker room.

The problem with calling it out, and as Wilbon must have known and calculated, is that you know you're going to get the response. You never say anything like that into a vacuum. You know Stephen A. Smith is going to respond. Oh, multiple podcasts, multiple videos made about this. I don't seek to be a contrarian about this, But this all reminds me this discussion about who is a journalist and who's not a journalist of the rise of bloggers 25 years ago.

When people in print media were like, see, I'm a reporter. I'm a journalist. You are taking my work and just adding a comment to it and posting it online. You, sir or madam, are not a journalist. Yeah. I mean, there were even more traditional disputes back then, like at my paper, we wouldn't be able to publish that blog post with only two sources or one source or whatever, and yet they are so they're not real journalists.

There you go. And I just remember my boss at the time Jake Weisberg at Slate was like, you know, anybody who wants to be a journalist is basically a journalist. This is not like a medical doctor where you have to go to school for so many years and pass various exams. Right. This just, I just, and I understand the distinction that's being made here, but Stephen A is commenting on the news on television. in his own in inimitable way. There's the word I'm groping for. He's a journalist.

I'm sorry. You may not like it. You may not be your cup of tea. He may be fundamentally different from Don Van Nata. I don't, he's a TV journalist, as broadcast journalist, as Bobby Hayden used to say.

I don't really, I don't see this as like a particularly interesting distinction, nor do I think that he gets, gets thrown out of the club. I don't get it. I think there's two things. One is, like you said, Wil Bond probably doesn't consider himself a journalist,

at least when he's playing presenter or whatever, when he's a talking head. I like to use that British word presenter. Yes, thank you. And I think that it's more of a introspective comment, you know, whatever. But then separately, there is a case to be made that Stephen A. Smith is so far,

like such a polar example that no, even by a loose definition, he's no longer a journalist. He doesn't report news. He's just there to be an entertainer in the guise of a journalist. Like a loony Fox News reporter or something, you know, talking at or something. Sure. But, or like maybe John Stewart as host of the Daily Show is a better example.

Is John Stewart, is the host of the Daily Show a journalist or are they a comedian? You know, like, but the point is, I think. He doesn't seek to be one, but yes. Right. I would, if he wanted to be one, I would say he is one, sure. So if you seek to be one, then you are one, that's fine. Again, I agree with you. I don't have any problem with that definition or whatever either. People want to be mad at Stephen A.

So this is a handy way and see, hey, see, he's not a journalist anymore. Maybe he once was back in Philly or in New York, but he's not anymore. Yeah. I don't think journalist is a term that we should subject to very high criteria. I think the whole point is that anybody can be a journalist. if they want to be. Now, there's a difference between journalism and propaganda and probably there's a difference with journalism and comedy

and all those kind of things and even journalism and just television performance. But I don't think there should be a very high bar to being a journalist. That's not the idea. How many journalism classes did you take in college? Zero. How many journalism classes did I take in college?

Zero. Like, it's just fine, right? Like, it doesn't matter. And if you want to be mad at Stephen A, just be mad on other grounds. No, and there's even philosophical issues with it, too. right, where it's just like, did Jackie McMullen, or did any of the original cast of the sports reporters

demean themselves to go on the show and sort of be a slightly meta about their careers? Like, no, the opposite. It's made it or like it's made it a richer field for like those sorts of, that sort of exposure, right? So, I mean, it's just, it's, anyway, it's silly. Greg Olson might be getting his moment in the sun again. Mm-hmm.

So the thinking here is, hey. He's definitely going to get his moment in the sun, right? Yeah, I think there's going to be a spot, right, because between CBS and Amazon, there probably will be an opening there. So he will get to be a number one announcer again, which he was once upon a time at Fox, even called a Super Bowl. The whole Olson thing is funny to me because he is really good. He certainly proved he's good enough to be a number one announcer.

On the other hand, I feel like people have been, his fans in the media have been trying to get him a job. and been trying harder to get him a job than he wanted network television has been trying. Like, I go back to Amazon when they first started Thursday Night Football. They went through four guys and never called about Greg Olson.

Yeah. They want a Troy Echman. They want a Sean McVeigh, who came fairly close to taking the job. They wanted John Lynch, who was working for the 49ers. And they wanted Kirk Herb Street. Yeah.

They could have called about Greg Olson. They didn't call, right? They have four choices, and you didn't get to Greg Olson. There was a whole thing about him and NBC. Oh, you know, Chris Collinsworth. What if Chris Collinsworth leaves? NBC is like, actually Chris Collinsworth is really good at broadcasting. We will keep him on our air.

We've got multiple Collinsworths on the roster. We don't need Greg Olson. And, you know, could CBS go get him? Yeah, but to me, given how conservative and given the way CBS thinks, it's so much more likely. If Romo is gone, and that is not a foregone conclusion at this point. But if Romo's gone, it's so much more likely they're just going to promote J.J. Watt from within than go try to hire somebody else from Fox. But anyway.

The one interesting thing to look at, I mean, obviously Greg Olson has been calling games consistently, not as the number one guy on his channel. Number two, yep, on Fox, which is still a good game. No, no, it is. But we always talk about how with a lot of color commentators, their success is sort of dependent on their proximity to the league, right? I mean, it's just like Tony Romo was good when he was like fresh out. And then he dipped and he had to like really work to get back to the peak, obviously. Is it possible that Greg Olson gets a number one job somewhere and then everybody just suddenly realizes he wasn't as he's not as good as he was once upon a time? I don't know.

He seems like a workhorse. He seems like he's that I'm a tight end. So the only way I'm going to prove myself is just to work my ass off. Yes. I'm not like famous like Tony or as famous as Tony Romo is. By the way, the folks at Fox, and you know this better than me, love him and have loved him since the day, but since before they signed him. He called games when he was a player at Fox. That's something that happened.

Like, it is a wild infatuation. They really love him there. They really love him. And they were, again, they were much more interested in him than the rest of the world was way back when. And I think, I still remember when Olson and Burkhart got promoted when Buck and Aikman went to NBC or went to, what, ESPN, excuse me. And everybody was like, man, this is going to feel small. smaller. And then by the end of the season, we're like, actually, those guys are really good.

I think Olson probably, if he's going to get a number one job, winds up, but winds up on Amazon. Like, I and Eagle and Greg Olson makes a ton of sense. It does. Whenever that would happen. Also, just one other note, Buck and Eggman's contract is up this year, which has been getting a lot of attention in sports media reporter world. So they signed a five-year deal at ESPN. They're going to call the Super Bowl this year, and then their contract expires. There's a very thin line.

between reporting stories that are interesting for the folks at home and just doing a hype train for, oh my God, you're going to have to pay the piper to get these guys back and just doing, it's like being the comms director for the politician. Exactly. Being the agent for the,

for the broadcaster. You know who should be the agent? It's Charles Barkley. People should just bring Charles Barkley in to negotiate for them. Troy Eggman and Joe Buck are going to retire. Anyway, just a cautionary note there. Are we talking about a real story? It is interesting to think that they conceivably be calling the Super Bowl

without a long-term contract in place, but it's more a matter of, like, it feels like even though the money is going to be the most money anybody in that job has ever made, it's totally secondary. It's just all parties want to continue. I don't know about that. Tom Brady makes a lot of money.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Any team, I should say. But like... But if, hey, but if you're Troy Ackman, And again, maybe now I'm doing what I'm telling people about to do. Yes, you are. Go ahead. But let's just, I'm going to be Trey Eichman's agent. If I'm like, well, he's making $30 plus million a year.

Troy makes, like, 18, I think. Like, we're going to close the gap, right? Because Troy's probably the best announcer or one of the best announcers out there. And Joe Bucks agents, like, how could he sit next to Troy Eagman making $35 million a year unless he's also making $35 million? Joe's the face of the franchise. I mean, come on now. I also had this for you.

You know Phil Steele, who is one of the probably the biggest of the college football guide producers? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. This is the old analog college football preview that appears at your local Kroger Safeway. We still have Safeway? Yes. Phil Steele tweeted this out yesterday. Warning, there are four different magazines on Amazon right now that are titled Phil Steele College Football that have nothing to do with me.

my magazine. They are 58, 70, 45, and 93 pages and have nothing to do with me. They are scams. My magazine is 376 pages with two full pages on all 138 teams. I did not expect Phil Steele to be on the front lines of the war against AI slop. No. But it totally makes sense. An AI slop Phil Steele's college football 26?

Maybe it's my algorithm, but how many times have you seen those tweets? about like how to create passive income, and it turns out that it's all about just writing AI slot books and putting on Amazon, you know? Have you been reading these things, David? It's just stunning. It's a little short this month. Yeah, it's stunning that you could just like say,

oh, here's an idea that nobody's thought of, do something that's like morally reprehensible and potentially illegal. You know, like they put it on Amazon. Yeah, no, that's funny. But it makes total sense. Like, dude, if that were my job, I would be all over that Phil, Phil Steele.

stuff. All right. It's time for a feature that is never run through the AI content generator. It's time for David Shoemaker guesses the strained pun headline. Yeah. Our last headline about the new Senate nominee in Maine was after an odyssey of a primary, Democrats get to Troy. Today's headline comes to us from alert listener, The Laundry. It's from The Guardian, David. It's a trend piece about actors who are playing the cello in movies. We have enough examples, the latest of which is Pedro Pascal playing that particular instrument

in Tony Gilroy's new movie, Behemoth, which comes out in December. I just saw a trailer for that. I think that's enough to get you home. What was the Guardian's strain pun headline? I mean, I immediately go to like take a bow, but that's not a visual pun, not a spoken pun. That's very funny, but not it.

cello strings I mean listen I played the cello my dad's a cellist I should think I can I can go I didn't know that elementary school before you before you knew me school orchestra only I wasn't like a great cellist it's not like I was a great cellist or anything

I wasn't taking like private lessons actors playing cellists is it a cello pun is it a yeah what if you think of great Al Pacino movies or memorable Al Pacino movies. Say cello to my little friend. Say cello to my little friend. I don't know that that makes any sense, but...

No, it's funny, though. It made me smile. He's David Shoemaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Producing magic. From Isaiah Blakely and John Jones. Thank you, gentlemen. Some plugs, David.

Mm-hmm. I was out buying books in Boston last week, so Joel hosted the podcast with one Jason Concepcion. Yeah, hell yeah. It's very conspiracy-tinged episode of the press box. Please listen to that. David and I reacted to the Abdul El-Sayed victory in Michigan last week. Check that out.

And then the aforementioned Hua Shoe of the New Yorker, our old Grantland teammate and I did a whole podcast about magazines that I hope you will check out. Magazines, what were they? What do we lose when we lose magazines? That's up right now for your enjoyment. Follow us on Instagram at Pressbox Ringer. if you were following us.

I know you're following us, David, but if this listener I'm addressing right now, if you were following us, you would know, for instance, that Lawrence Wright has a new book coming out in October because I posted it on our Instagram. Check that out.

If you want to write us, pressbox ringer at gmail.com. David, I will see you next Tuesday with more lukewarm takes about the meeting. See you later, Brian.