The Press Box - 'Bachelorette Party' — DeMario's Deceit, Celebrity Guests, and Whaboom! (Ep. 313)

Episode Date: May 30, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman is joined by her colleague Hannah Giorgis to break down Episode 2. They discuss DeMario's surprise guest (1:29), celebrity appearances by Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis (23:17) and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (31:43), and evaluate some of the contestants (38:34). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Bachelorette Party. I'm Julia Lippman. It's only the second episode of Rachel's season. Boy was as a doozy. There's so much to get into. There's Milakounis and Ashton Coutcher appearing. Plus, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar appearing. So much star power for one episode.

It's hard to believe. Plus, Rachel being just a badass bitch. I fucking love her. And it's just a lot to dig into. My guest today is my ringer colleague, Hannah Georges, who is one of our culture editors and overseas special projects. Hi, Hannah. Hello, hello.

How is it going? Good. Thank you for joining me. I'm incredibly excited to talk about this episode. The Bachelorette is not as popular as The Bachelor. It's just a factor. It's just a fact because I think the men like to watch for all of the crazy women on The Bachelor. Some of them drop off for The Bachelorette.

But they're missing out if they're not watching because this week's episode was ridiculous. No, it's incredible. And I think that people deeply underestimate how entertaining it is to watch that. much masculine drama. Oh my God. I know. It really is pretty unbelievable. We are going to count down the five most shocking turns of events on this week's episode. And I think people might take issue with my rankings, but what's the point of rankings if you don't do them this way? You know? We're going to get into all of it. And most importantly, we're going to talk about DiMario, who probably had the biggest storyline of the show, but I don't think what happened with him

was the most shocking. So I'm just going to say number five, the fifth. The fifth. most shocking thing that happened this week was DiMario supposedly having a girlfriend and definitely being very shady. Yeah, I don't think that was surprising at all. When she said his name, I was like, oh, okay, of course. Yeah. Who else was it going to be, really? I know. So someone had to have a girlfriend because that's how this show goes. Like there's just got to be someone with a, what I like to call a GBAH, a girl back home. And for Demerio, it's not even back home because he is from Century City. Or that's where he's Kairon said he's from. But Hannah, you're from Southern California. California. Have you ever met anyone who's from Century City? Absolutely not. I'm actually

firmly convinced that Century City doesn't really exist. It's just a creation of the Hollywood system because it houses like CIA in a very good mall. Have you ever been to that mall? I absolutely have not, but I think next time I come back, I might have to know. It has a really good movie theater, and I was there on a Friday evening a few years ago, and I was like, wow, this is like, this is what Los Angeles youth do. I just go to the mall and hang out on Fridays. It was hilarious, and I like to imagine DeMario, like, being from near there or something like that. I did some digging on DeMario because I was convinced that the Century City thing was because he worked at CIA, because that's like the main thing of Century

City is that. That's where CIA is, right? They named like Avenue of the Stars or something like that. What did you find in your investigative journalism? Thanks for asking. So I went to his LinkedIn page. And most importantly, he went to Fit him, the Fashion Institute of Design Merchandise from 2005 to 2009. Are you solidly respectable? Are you familiar with Fidom? I am. Isn't that where Heidi?

It was one of, somebody on the hills. Yes, exactly. Lauren and Heidi were going there in season one of the hills. Well, okay, first of all, shout out to me for being more loyal to Heidi than to Lauren. Are you a Heidi girl? Is that something I should know about you? I'm not a Heidi girl, but I feel like I know more about, more about her than I ever did about Lauren because I read that extensive profile of her in Step, Spencer,

written by our dear colleague, Andrew Griddott-Dar back when he was a complex. Yes, exactly. Yeah, Heidi is, like, at this point, more interesting, though. Lauren is certainly more rich. Lauren is, like, very wealthy. First of all, she was obviously rich to begin with. And second of all, she has, like, her Coles Apparel Empire. She's written, like, several YA novels.

She has... Wait, she writes novels? Yes, the Y.A. novels. They're all called, like, candy. Okay, I might have to read those. It's, like, L.A. Candy, Secret Candy. I don't know. She has all these novels, and then she has a line of clothing and anthropology carries.

And then, I don't know, she's just like, she's killing it. But anyway. So she's still out here. What did you say? So she's still out here. She is. Were you a Hills fan? No, I was all OC.

Laguna Beach and the Hills didn't do it for me. Really? So you just, you liked the OC, the television show, though? Yes, absolutely. And that is not entirely because I'm from Orange County, but, you know, figures in heavily. Sure. I mean, the OEC is one of the, season one of the OEC is like one of the best episodes, one of the best season of television of all time. But I digress.

Anyway, back to DeMario. He went to fit him at the same time as Lauren and Heidi. And I just like to imagine them like walking past each other in school or something like that. Plotting assorted shenanigans. Yes. Maybe this is all Heidi's idea, actually. That would be amazing. Somehow Spencer was behind this, Heidi and Spencer.

I'm going to write that fan fiction. That's a great idea. And maybe like Lauren can like do a ghost. writing for you and get it published. Just an idea. Anyway, this is all to say that DeMiro did not work at CIA. He worked at a company called Michael Page, which is just a executive recruiting company, or a recruiting company. So that's like, you know, I was imagining he was in-house, which is this is like a lot less glitzy, but sure, it's cool. Whatever. He also worked at Lacoste at one point as an assistant general manager, and I like to imagine that he still has, like, a lot

of old Lacoste clothing that he's wearing. I would like that. I can see him just strolling around taking his various lacrosse polos to this woman's home where he allegedly has keys still. Okay. Great. Okay. Thank you for bringing up the keys. Okay. So, Demerio, in case you forget, he was the one who was, like, really into pop culture on his bio. He's, like, referenced Justin and Brittany. And he just always has, like, a saying, which was, like, kind of annoying. Were you into him before this, this whole episode, this whole situation with his ex happened? I felt very neutral about this man. He started me as somebody who, like,

he wasn't one of the people that I was like, get this person off of my screen, but I wasn't rooting for him either. Right. Not that I'm rooting for a huge group of people on the show, but you know. Are you rooting for anyone? I think I like, what's the dude

who was the camp counselor who went to the camp? That's kind of weird, but I kind of like him. He's a little charming. Kenny, sort of, Peter. You know, there are a couple on here that I don't hate. Interesting. Okay, we'll come back to that. Anyway, Demaria was annoying, or just to me, and like, fine to you.

And then this week, he really took center stage. Even before they got to his group date, you just knew he was going to get a lot of screen time because they showed him around the house, like hanging out with Josiah, talking about how women just love to watch their men play basketball. Sure, I guess. And when he said it, it sounded so bad. But it is kind of true. I do love to watch men play basketball.

all. Right. It's not. Well, I think he has an incredible power to make things that are actually normal statements sound strange and unappealing, which should have foreshadowed perhaps what was going to happen. That's a really good point. If you like just acknowledge his actual words, nothing is that crazy, but the way he delivers them and how he strings them together is offensive. Absolutely. Basically. So what happened this week was they have a group date where they play basketball and Cream Hemp tool Jabar is there. More on that in a minute. And DiMario's really excited.

He dunks on Rachel. If you had to think of one way to win over a woman on her basketball court, where would you rank dunking on her? That's got to be pretty far down on the list. Totally. I also seem like that. That's not ideal. You can just perform well, you know, make some points, cute, like whatever.

But don't dunk on me. Dunk on someone else. No. Dunk on like one of the. other dudes. That's the point. Like instead of just doing a verbal dunk on them, which is usually what they have to do, like you actually get to dunk on them. It's amazing. Okay, so they're playing basketball. And then at the end, some woman at the end of the date, this woman who comes up to Rachel. And I don't recall her name. Did we ever learn her name? Something like Nikki.

For some reason, I thought it was Alexa. Lexi. Oh, Lexi. Was it Lexi? Something like that. Okay, great. I swear I did a lot of reasons. I did a lot of searched about this episode, but neglected to learn her name. So Lexi comes up to Rachel, and she's like, I know DeMario, and we were dating until last week. And we're just, I've mentioned this before, but DeMario showed up on the after the final rose and was probably cast, like just a few weeks before filming began. So it is quite plausible that while they're still in his supposed hometown of Los Angeles,

he was like with Lexi, the GF last week or whatever. And Rachel's in disbelief. And then she goes back to get DiMario to have him confront Lexi. And I want to just go line by line through what DeMario, some of DeMario's best quotes in the Lexi situation. Okay, so DeMario sees Lexi, his supposed X. And what is his first reaction, Hanna? Oh, who's this?

He just said, who's this? Who's this? Incredible. It's pretty unbelievable. ball like when you first see someone you know and even if you can't place them would you ever say who's this like pretending to never know them absolutely not never in my adult life have I said who is this about a human being that I have met several times let alone dated let alone date that that was incredible I was like you're not even going to say like not even an awkward hi

nothing just to who's this like explain this to me it was I fully expected him to do the wow yeah but you know or even like walk away or like pretend to trip or like you're tie her shoe buy some time just give yourself a little a little bit to like get get to her or something so then uh rachel explains who she is and what she's doing there because he pretends to not know who lexie is and demario says and i quote i don't use these words lightly he says this girl is psycho i met her many many times ago i met her a long time ago um at the ringer we refrained from calling people of psycho and crazy because that's just like a not a nice thing to say. From a man who you supposedly were involved with, that's like a pretty

hurtful thing to say, actually. Right. Absolutely. I also have a quick question about what many times ago means, like how, what unit of measure is a time? That's a really good point. How are we quantifying that? Exactly. Like many, many times ago is not a normal construction. And that it, that like, means that he like catalogs all of their interactions or something. I don't, I don't really understand. I don't, I don't know. He was, he was grasping for stuff. And then, then they, like, move forward and they're, and they're trying to understand, you know, what happened. And Rachel's asking him from questions, like, well, when was the last time you saw her? Is she telling the truth? And he says, this is personal life stuff. Like, I'm not, yeah, not personal life stuff.

Personal life stuff. So again, like, what is life stuff? And also what, well, how is that not relevant if it's about his personal life or any life stuff when presumably Rachel would be entering his personal life and life stuff. Exactly. And in fact, she said to him, I know this is personal life stuff. I'm trying to talk about personal life. He was going personal life-half-huff and she was saying personal life and life stuff. And I would like to say that he lost that. Semantics are very important on this show in punctuation. It tells you so much. It doesn't surprise me that a smart girl like Rachel would agree. Absolutely. And that's what somebody says. somebody said later on in the show that she's, you know, an attorney.

It's true. You're not going to just toss this logical fallacy slash non-word slash non-phrase onto the table and expect it to fly, baby. I know. You have to do better. She's smart. I love Rachel. He goes on to say, we had something, but then I lost it. And then in reference to if they were still communicating, he said, I tried to wean it off.

She was texting, but I tried to cut it off full. And then she was like, actually, you have the keys to my apartment. and he responded, I don't have the keys to your apartment. Oh, wait, actually, I'm sorry. I mailed those keys to your apartment. Oh, did you? I mailed the keys to your apartment.

I just let that sink in for a second. I mailed the keys to your apartment. I'm Hanna. Sir, sir. Just explain the logistics of that to me. When's the last time you mailed something? You know what? The only thing I mail is my rent regularly,

and I still feel annoyed about that. Me too. Me too. In fact, I have to like mail my rent today and there's a post office, there's a mailbox right by the office, and I still find it to be such an imposition. Like, who mails stuff? It's ridiculous.

I think that we're in 2017. There's no reason to be doing these things. Also, why are you mailing keys to a woman? I know. Whose keys you had? Seriously. At least give me, you know, do me the courtesy of bringing the keys by my doorstep. Right.

Even if you don't come on inside, whatever. I also want to say that I think you'd need a bubble mailer to effectively mail keys, which is just like a huge imposition. Right. And he doesn't strike me as a kind of man who would spring for a bubble mailer. No, unless he, like, stole it from his office. It wouldn't be stealing, but, like, just took one. But mailing keys is objectively more difficult than, like, just dropping the keys off if you're in the same city.

Absolutely, and it costs more money. It does cost more money. Like, mailing keys is, like, at least $2. Right. So now we know tomorrow's fiscally irresponsible. Seriously. I was, like, I know that you were really floored at the Who's This. I mailed the keys to your apartment really got me.

No, who's this just really opened him up. It just started everything off on the right foot for me. Am I right? I mean entirely wrong. Yeah. It did tell you who he is, though. It gave you a good sense, you know? So then they move forward with this heated conversation.

And Rachel's like, so when did you last speak? And Rachel's like, if I look at her phone, will it match what you're saying? And DiMario says, it depends on the dates. Okay. Okay. And then, lastly, before Rachel looks at the phone, he finds. Emily says, we've had sexual intercourse before. Thanks, Bill Clinton. I mean, sexual intercourse, like, I don't know. I don't think I've heard that phrase outside of health class in a while.

So thank you for that, DeMario. Well, we'll throw back here. I know. But what's going on? Why? Also, who needed that specific detail? We understood what was going on here. I know. Even the phrase, like, we've had sex is like, or like, we had sex, like, they had sex. It's like, just, like, feels very, like, school marm to me. Although I will say I say that quite often. But it just doesn't sound like normal. It just, I don't know. It was, that stuck out as well. It's also just like, is now really the time to be 100% forthcoming?

Like, you could have gone with a euphemism here. That would have been fine. That's true. You could have been like, yeah, we were involved. Right. We all know what the deal is. It's okay. Absolutely.

Also, it kind of seems like a win for her lawyering because after a few minutes, she got him to own up to it. And it's sort of like her cross-examination worked. It was yet another win for Rachel. basically as everything is absolutely so then ultimately this culminates in rachel pulling one of the best moves in the history of the bachelor's let's roll a clip so let me tell you something i'm not here to be played i'm not here to be made a joke of which is what i feel like you're doing right now with me so i'm really going to need you to get the f*** out just incredible incredible

that was just unreal like that is i would say a top five bachelor's moment how how long have you watching the show, Hannah? I feel like I would watch episodes here and there of the other seasons, and this is the only season I really committed myself to watching all the way through. Like, I insist on knowing who wins this thing and watching every episode live if I can. But normally it's just, you know, a little here and there. Sure. Well, I think that this is, like, this whole interaction is, like, just unparalleled. There's certainly been, like, exes who show up or whatever, but Lexi was very comfortable talking to the camera. Like, she, at one point, she clearly Rachel and Demario had like walked off or something and she's just looking straight at the camera and saying like she's just like explaining what's happening and is really um sassy it's almost like she had practiced or something or has been on TV before she was excited she was excited to be there like normally the whole woman to woman's situation is very drawn out it's kind of sad it's whatever on you know on the show and also on others but she was ready for her time to shine yeah she really was and she just um she was ready for it and she owned it she got to Mario out of there

It was pretty wild. I was watching it back. Sorry. I'm so sorry. What'd you say? I said you got him out the paint, if you will. I'm so sorry. You're really ready for the NBA finals, Hannah, I could tell.

So I noticed after, well, I rewatched the DiMario situation like five times. And I noticed that at a certain point, after Rachel tells DeMario to get the fuck out of there, both Rachel and Lexi. By the way, we never confirmed that's her name. We're just going with it. Rachel and Lexi both grab at the top center of their pants, like in the back. Both of them very specifically. And while it's, I think, very natural for many women to, like, grab their jeans or whatever when they stand up,

this seemed like they were turning off their mics or turning their mics back on or something. And I'm pretty sure there were something edited out that we didn't get. I don't know what it was. I feel like we got a lot. But they both, in a very specific way, were, like, grabbing it, like, where the mic pack would be. And it's an emotion I'm familiar with because NBA coaches do it a lot in the middle of games when they don't want the cameras

to pick up what they're saying to their teams. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. I wonder what they're talking about there. So I'm curious about how to cut out. But like we got so much and like it was so amazing. What could possibly have been lift out? Right. What else is there?

And I don't even mind. Like I don't even need to know what's on that underground next year. Oh, no, no. It was enough. I was like gloriously entertained. and I look forward to any and all follow-up of this. I know. I really want DeMaro to come on this podcast.

I'm trying hard. Oh, my God. I'm going to stalk him until it works out. I just want to go to Century City. Yeah, seriously. Now I know where he works. Although, if one of our colleagues was like, hey, I'm taking three months off, I'll be back,

and then we found out they were on The Bachelor. Like, A, we'd be excited because this is the ringer. But could you ever look at them the same way again? I would have a lot of questions. And I feel like at that point, you would just have to submit yourself to some of those questions, at least. Yeah. Like, that's not fair.

Yeah. I mean, I would ask a million questions. But, like, let's say also we were, like, headhunting. And, like, DeMario turned out to be the person, like, assigned to our account to, like, help us fill a position. Like, how could you take him seriously? Yeah, you're already laughing at the thought of it. Well, to what extent is it fair to not take him seriously? I'm like, well, you've been shown to not be trustworthy and you tell lies. But does that show up in your professional life? I don't know.

Right. I know. I know. But it's just, like, just know too much about DeMario. Oh, absolutely. I feel like with coworkers, like after a certain period time, you learn a lot. But it's like one of the few relationships where you just kind of like go in blind and have to accept it. And with someone who was on TV, like you would just have so much extra information that you didn't really deserve to have. I don't think I could deal with it. Oh, no, no, definitely. And it's not fair because they don't have that on you, presumably, you know, unless you have a whole staff of people who happen to be on TV.

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So get in on these killer last minute deals and download the hotel tonight app now. Okay. DiMario dominated this episode, but there's really a lot more that I wanted to dip into. Namely, Rachel did a series of other stunning things that I'm still not over, including how she was with Dean. Dean was on the group date. He was on the date that I believe Mila, Kuhna, Kuhna, and Ash and Coocher, appeared on, which was the husband material competition.

He did not win. Would you like to explain what happened on this challenge, Hanna? Because I would love to hear your interpretation. It's not even a challenge. I mean, that's using the wrong terminology. But yeah, tell us what happened. It was like if you made home economics a relay race. Exactly.

That's what this would be. That's a perfect way of putting it. And it was judged by Milakunas and Ashton Kutcher. Which incredible, first of all, like their commentary about that being their date and their one-on-one was, first of all, adorable, secondly hilarious. I know. But the, how many of it?

Was like five of the men had to do all sorts of home-related things to prove that they were husband material? Because Rachel swears that she's wife material, which I believe. Oh yeah, definitely. But they had to change a diaper of like a doll. Also, weirdly, the poop of the baby doll situation was censored. Yeah, that was so bizarre. Like, there are a lot of things on the show.

that are strange and might benefit from censoring, but I don't know that I would have picked that personally. Anyway, there was that. They had to, you know, go down a long track sort of thing with a vacuum cleaner, with the baby attached to them in a baby Bjorn situation, set a table perfectly. It was bizarre. It was a lot. There was a lot going on. It was like being a dad while running a relay race, but not really being a dad because it's a doll, a baby doll, not a real baby. It was so ridiculous. Dean did not win. Waiboon, won. What boom should not have won.

Kenny should have won. Kenny, the actual father. I know. And Kenny did do the best, right? He did. And then Wabom came and stiff-armed him toward the end and claimed the title. Somehow Ashton and Meele missed that.

I feel like they caught it and Ashton really wanted his time to speak or to be a guest about Woboom in general. And you know what? I'll allow that. Okay. That's fair enough. Also, I want to say that my number four

most stunning thing about this episode is that I now really like Ashton Kutcher and Milak Kunis as a couple. They seemed like fun and normal. And like you said, they were making funny jokes, but this was like their one-on-one because they left their own baby home with Mila's parents.

And like they just, they clearly were wearing their own clothes. They didn't like go through like, they're probably wearing makeup for the cameras, but like it wasn't like they were so fancy. I don't know, they just seemed like really cool and normal. And now I think I need to put them

in my top three of celebrity couples. Wait, who were the other two? Number one is David Bennoff and Amanda Pete. I just like, I just love them so much. I don't know. Like Armila and Ashton number two. Like, no one else is, like, jumping out at me as number one. I mean, have any other couples been on The Bachelorette?

Great point. Right. No competition. Yeah. And the way they got into it was because Jared, who was on two seasons ago, was, people said he looked like Ashton Coucher, which he did not, but whatever. And that's so they started watching and how they're really into it. And, like, clearly they sought this out because I don't think the Bachelorette would be like,

you know, it would be great, but to get Mila and Ashton on the show. So, like, they're like, obviously don't take themselves too seriously. I thought that Ashton looked like he had a little bit of a dad bot in a very endearing way. Definitely, definitely. Did you catch that? I did. I was like, okay, that's a kind of medium shirt for the situation that's happening here. I'm not mad at it.

I don't know. I just really liked them. They seemed cool and, like, fairly normal. Obviously, she's already been, like, the cool internet girl. But this, mostly, I always liked Terry and I love Sarah Marshall, but mostly this turned me pro on him, which I didn't know could happen. Absolutely. same. I also appreciate that they said that Rachel is looking for, at the beginning of the race, they said Rachel's looking for a man who has health insurance. How many of you have jobs? How many of you

have health insurance? And when I went back and rewatch this, I noticed that Dean did not raise his hand. Really? No. Oh shit. He's also, bless his heart, is 25, right? Yeah, he is 25. Okay. So you know, it happens. Yeah. So Dean winning in group date, Rose, is number three. Like, I just didn't see that coming for a lot of reasons. You kind of started to get into it because he is 25 and Rachel's 32. And While seven years is really not a big difference, I just think a 25-year-old male could be very immature. Right. And those seven years in particular are very formative. There are a lot of things happening in your life, in your career. And I say this as someone who's 26. Like, I understand that I'm not living the same life as somebody, you know, who's seven years old as me.

And if I were a dude, I don't even, you know, no shade, but it would be an entirely different situation. Totally. I just don't see it for Dean in general, though. Okay. So Dean, crucially, was one of the... the first four on after the final rose and he said to Rachel, I want to go black and never go back, which is like probably a low point in the show's history, I would say. It's really, it's rough. And so it's kind of hard to not look at them as like a potential couple, like, without like considering the racial, racial implications, partially because Dean like made it so like fetishized to begin with. I was like, you didn't have to do that, dude. You could have thought of anything else. Like I get that,

you know, anyway. And that, that feels like it's not a. reflection of his age because there's plenty of 25-year-old dudes who wouldn't say something like that. Yeah. But I do feel like there's a way that he sort of approaches her in this like very California, he's from Venice, like, very like California laid-back surfer way where it's like, I don't know what to make of you being a black woman, but it's kind of cool and interesting. And the show doesn't really get into it. Like Rachel responded really positively to that and was like, oh, it was really bold.

You know, and I know a lot of black women watching were like, yeah, it was really bold and also a little bit racist. Yeah. I think there's a word missing here. And I think it's been interesting to watch this season not grapple with, I think it grapples with race a little bit, but they kind of haven't gotten into racism as a thing. And there have been a few opportunities where they could have. Right. And she could have really, you know, she could have said a quick little, like, almost cutesy line about like, you know, don't do that again or do it. You know, like, maybe not.

Or like it didn't have to be kind of like an after school special teachable moment. Yeah. But a quick little retort would have been great. And I wonder how much of that is her as a person, how much of it is the editing or the producing or what, you know, just the sort of mechanics of the show. Right. Yeah, maybe like we're not seeing it or something.

Because just by waiting so long to have a black bachelor or bachelorette and then like announcing it under fairly unusual circumstances before the previous season was over. Right. Rachel of Being Black is a really big deal. Like it's historic and it just moves race into. the forefront of the show when it was kind of always like a sub narrative about it, which that it was so white. And so it's unavoidable yet it's not really being discussed. And I wonder

it isn't it come up like more directly in the future episode. But it's sort of like a very surreal experience to be like this is a big deal and this is already a show that like operates inside its own orbit and like kind of creates its own reality, but is ignoring like the biggest storyline like both inside and outside of the show. Definitely. And they cut to a teaser clip every once in a while that shows her asking one of the contestants, have you ever taken a black girl home before or introduced her to your parents or whatever. And that's interesting. So, yeah, maybe we will get a little bit more of it later. But it does feel like even if they're not doing a kind of big, isn't this wild, isn't this intense, like this is like a big deal.

Even if they're not kind of making that so intense right now, they could, again, nod, at least nod to what's going on here. Right, like more like an acknowledgement. Right, right. Like the contestants are pretty like meticulously diverse. Yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah. Like even like, you know, they have like Eggie who they, not only do they not usually

have black men. They also don't usually have Hispanic men. Yeah, absolutely. So that is. They had in the first episode like South Asian men. I was like, I've never, that this doesn't happen. Yeah, it's true. And yeah, it's true.

The other thing, though, that's also like kind of complicates the Rachel and Dean thing is that he's young and doesn't seem to do that full of substance so far, not to like, shit on him. And she's the opposite. it. Like, Rachel's so awesome. Right, right. Like, she's clearly so smart. She's very poised. She's witty. Like, she is a different kind of bachelorette, not just because she's black, but because she's just, like, a fuller woman, like, in terms of, like, who she is than pretty much anyone else. Like, there's no one else even really close to her, or at least the way they

were portrayed. I think that, like, that's, like, not to sell any other women short, because I think I like them. And, like, Andy Dorman was also a lawyer, and I thought, like, had more substance. but we didn't really seem to have access to that in the same way that I think Rachel's like truth like a 360 view of her as like a human is really being put on display. Definitely. And it gives her all the more space to potentially critique or you know

because you already see her being sort of full and complete and full of herself and aware of who she is in this world and how she walks through it in a way that clearly, you know, resonates with people. Yeah. So I actually think that it would go over well. Yeah. I don't think.

And I'm very, cautious about saying that in general, black men on TV defending themselves goes over well. I don't, I think frequently it doesn't, but I think Rachel is in a pretty interestingly unique place where she could kind of push back a bit and people would for the most part support what she had to say on that front. Yeah. She kind of has like 100% approval rating right now. Yeah, which is pretty cool to see. Yeah, it is really cool. And I don't know, she just like, she seems awesome. Like I would like, I would like to hire her for the ringer. Like does she want to work with her? Rachel, if you're listening. Yeah, seriously. And I don't know, she just is like,

She called Dean a breath of fresh air. Actually, let's roll the clip of her talking about Dean. Anne walks Dean being a complete breath of fresh air for me. Dean is making me laugh. The conversation is so easy. He makes me very comfortable. So she calls him a breath of fresh air. And it's funny because she is the real breath of fresh air.

Right. And I feel like she makes him seem way better than he is. Right. Which, you know, who among us has not made a man seem a little bit better than they are? I like understand that. However, I think Rachel in particular can do better. It's true. And I was doing a deep dive on him.

He's a, you know, he seems like a fine person. He lives and works in Venice. Went to his Instagram. Seems fairly basic. Like, you know, just a regular Venice, bro. It's such a type that I'm familiar with. And maybe that's what Rachel's into. Who knows?

Bless her heart. Seriously. Okay. Number two, most stunning thing about this episode, directly tied to the conversation we're just having. Cream out. Joel Jabbar showing up. I mean, I don't even know where to begin. To quote Roger Sherman, our colleague, it was truly stunning. Last year, sorry, a few months ago, hard to keep track of time in Bachelor Nation. Careem Abdul-Jabbar wrote a critical article for The Hollywood Reporter

about how The Bachelor was like corrupting romance for millennials. And he also really took issue with their lack of diversity. Lo and behold, episode two, there's a basketball date. And who's the expert that shows up. Frickin all-time NBA scoring leader, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I was excited, but definitely not as excited as the men. They whooped in a way I had never seen before. They were like cheering.

It was unreal. Let's just play the clip of Kareem coming in. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar just coming through and like, oh, a personal friend, he just comes out. I was on 10. I cannot believe that I'm standing next to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He's the god of basketball. So Kreme wrote a follow-up for the Hollywood Report.

yesterday, but why he agreed to do it. And part of it was because they did address some of his concerns by casting Rachel. And so he, like, felt more comfortable being a part of it because she's not, because A, she's black, and B, because she's so awesome. And it's just like a stunning reversal. Who knew he could be won over so easily?

I think my favorite thing that Roger said, actually, about this reversal, is that his, Kareem's critique of The Bachelor read, like he had watched many, many, many seasons of it. And so, you know, I think that they, by casting Rachel and by sort of addressing some of those concerns, they gave Kareem the permission to actually be enthusiastic about this thing that he had secretly liked a little bit all along.

Right. That's a good point. It's like now he could be out in the open with it. And also it is like kind of a dialogue, I suppose. There's just not a dialogue so much as like the Bachelor and the Bachelor I've become like very self-aware. So when there's someone like Kareem who's as famous and like just like a, just like a dialogue. frankly meaningful because he is such a big deal in basketball and basketball is popular, then there's a way to get him involved or whatever. So it's like, on the one hand, I'm like,

wow, this is so cynical. But on the other hand, I'm like, wow, this is really cool. Right. Also, imagine having that power. Imagine saying, like, I wish a show that I watched could do this thing that makes sense and is meaningful and, like, not at all trivial. And then having it happen. Like, that's incredible. I know. It is really cool. Like, I was excited to see Kareem. However, I don't feel they used him as well as they could have. Like, all he does, give them some tips and then sits in the crowd with Rachel. And by the way, that's probably what I would have wanted to do, frankly. If you were ahead.

I'm also, I'm not Kareem of Jhbar, so like they, there's little use for me on this show. But that's, yeah, that's what I would have wanted to do if I were on. It's just give people a couple, you know, a little pep talk, a little advice, and then just chill with Rachel. I know. She does seem really fun, and it seems like they were having a blast on the sideline. Which leads me into the number one thing that shocked me about this episode.

Which is that Rachel admitting she doesn't. doesn't like these guys. Let's just roll this clip. Great guys. The conversations have been a little mundane, but for some reason, we can't turn the corner. You know, I'm not getting the romantic aspect that I need and that I want. Okay. This makes Rachel truly incredible and unprecedented as The Bachelorette. I have been watching the show for a while with too much interest, and I can't recall anyone ever flat out being like, these guys are boring or like I'm just not into them. And of course, that's why she's having fun,

Kareem. He's like, actually an interesting person who I'm sure she was like enjoying talking to. Right. And is relating to her as a human being. Yeah. Like, as a person who was on their TV once and they think is cute. Yeah. It was like incredible.

I don't know. I loved it so much. And it just makes everything moving forward seem so much more authentic and genuine with her. Yes. Because she's like just being so real. That like was kind of her line. this whole episode's like let's just, I want to be honest. Right, I want to be honest. I want to be real.

I want to keep it 100. And like, if any other bachelor had said, I want to keep it 100, I'd be like, all right, sis, okay, sure. You know, but he or she is just like the whole time kind of being consistent in that way. Yeah, it's pretty dope. And also, like, these guys, a lot of them do seem like a snooze. I know Josiah, like, seems sweet. Oh, no. No, I wasn't, I was not into his whole stick. Okay, what did he do to piss you off? Because I wasn't into him either, but I'm curious for you. His whole, like, it hurts me when you hurt Rachel? Like, okay, I understand it. Empathy is important. Yes. Like, that seems pretty hard to argue with. Great. I'm not objecting to that. But his, it felt really performative,

the way that he was like, I saw Rachel. Yeah. upset. Like, it hurt me to my core. Like, the way he says core in that scene, just exhausting. Like, sir, tone it down. Yeah. You know, you can be there for somebody without making it sort of about yourself and about how chivalrous you're going to be in saving her from DeMario. Yeah. And it felt like him capitalizing on DeMario's mistake. And the way that Blake is only relevant. because he hates Waboom so much. Oh, God. God.

I just cannot stand Woboom. He's really rough. You know what we forgot to cover was Ashton Coucher's response to Woboom winning that challenge. Can we roll this clip? Let's just roll the clip. What I was? I didn't even know what that was.

That's the sound that he makes. For what? Like excitement. Why? Just because he can. Foul on the play. Okay. So Ashton Coochard did not care for Wabooam and was really confused by him.

That was really satisfying to watch. His face specifically, just incredible. And the way he kind of, you know, the horn. Yes is hard for that. Ash and Coochard was uninterested. That might have turned him off from The Bachelor now that they're fans, it might be over because of Wabooam. That was really wrong. I don't see it for Wabooam.

Like, obviously I think he's annoying, you know, all the critiques that you could have of this outlandish, like, overgrown frat boy of a contestant, fine. but Blake's entire character thing on the show is that he hates Woboom and is going to say Rachel from like the fakeness that is Woboom which like we all have eyes. Rachel has eyes fine. She if she if you are gleaning this from this man I'm sure Rachel is too. And that's why I felt about just size thing. I was like we get it tomorrow her, her. She can see that. You don't need to do this sort of long spiel performative whatever it is you're doing.

Right. And like it's one thing to have someone be like, are you okay and like check it on you? Right. It's like she doesn't need this like coddling bro. Back off. She was not the one who was in the relationship with him for however long and then found out that he was going behind your back. All things considered, this is not the worst of heartbreaks and the worst of disappointments.

There's still however many dudes around. Yeah. She's coming out just fine. Right. Just fine. Blake is like kind of the most pathetic because he's just so obsessed with getting rid of Wabom. And I'm just like, dude, he's not going to win. It's fine.

Like play it cool and be you. Also, isn't Blake the one who said that he wanted to like go on a sexual journey with Rachel or something? He's the ones of obsessing his penis. Let's cool it, dude. Yeah, I really don't like him. I hate him more than I hate Wabum, in fact. Because I know Waboolema will be gone. Yeah, absolutely.

I bet Blake leaves before Wabom, actually, or at the same time. Let us hope. Also, the whole bit about how Blake is Wabom's ex-girlfriend's roommate or something like that. Why? Like, unnecessary. It also reminds me of at the beginning of the episode, or I think I was,

or maybe it was last episode, where all the sort of old bachelor contestants said that they knew somebody and that they were in terms. intentions weren't good, pure. Bring it back around. I know. Blake is like a archetype of like the guy is too worried that doesn't really have, doesn't have his own schick. Right.

He's rough. He's definitely out. So Peter was like kind of, we didn't even talk about Peter because I, I find him boring. But Peter is fine. Yeah. Peter and Rachel had a one-on-one. They went to Palm Springs. They went and hung out with her dog. Peter is very handsome.

Peter is like the annoying kind of like attainable hot, attainable model. hot. He doesn't look like a Ralph Lauren model, but he is like model level hot. Definitely. That's like very LA hot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not into him. I'm not not into him. I'm just like, okay, fine, Peter. He's, Peter and Dean seem like other front runners right now. Which is wild to me. I know. Like they both are, I mean, you know, I don't like Dean, obviously, but they are fine. I know. They're fine. They don't seem good enough for Rachel. Yeah. Not at all. Not at all. I don't know why I weirdly like Fred. You do like Fred. I don't know what. Fred's the one from camp. I think there's something I'm doing about him. Yeah.

Who Rachel's like I either weren't. She was like this was another like interesting moment or like they kind of talked about race but then immediately pulled back from it. She was like there weren't a lot of black kids at camp. So I remember you. Right. And that could have been like, you know, similar to The Bachelor, there aren't a lot of black people on The Bachelor. Right. So you remember.

Yeah. But they didn't like really lean into it. They acknowledged it. And then it's like kind of like when you accidentally make eye contact and then immediately look away. That's kind of like what happened in this scenario. That's kind of how this show handles race in general. Yeah, so far. Yeah, he seems like interesting and nice.

I like Kenny a lot. And I was upset that he didn't win the husband material. I like Kenny too. Kenny is the dad. And he does, he did seem like... The wrestler. He also seems proud to be a dad, which I feel like a lot of these shows, a lot of this time on the show. The parents kind of make it like, it's part, like the way that it comes up on the show.

It's kind of like an accessory. Like, oh, I have a kid. But for him, it's like his identity. He's like talking about his daughter a lot. seems like very proud of it, which is very sweet. And even the way that he talks about his daughter sort of being involved in, you know, his dating processes in general, like this isn't, he's not coming, you know, he's very much a package deal.

Yeah. And it feels great that he centers at. Totally. I know, he is a nice guy. I hope we get more Kenny. We just need a little bit less of these novelties, less, less Wabom, less Blake and less DiMario. Although obviously we're getting more of him next week. I'm determined once he's off his show to get him on this podcast, though.

We need to hear from the people's champ, Damaria. I think if we frame it as his. Him telling his side of the story, we could definitely do it. I agree. Thanks for believing in me, Hanna. Thanks for believing in this show. Anytime. Thanks for coming on.

It was great to chat with you. Definitely. Thanks for having me. It's been a blessed. Of course. Thanks for listening. I'll be back next Tuesday, as always, and I promise to never yell while boom. And thanks to hotel tonight.

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