The Press Box - 'Bachelorette Party'—The Finale With Ben Higgins and Hannah Giorgis (Ep. 339)

Episode Date: August 9, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman discusses the final episode of the 'Bachelorette' season with her colleague Hannah Giorgis (1:08). Then, former Bachelor Ben Higgins comes on to give his thoughts on Peter's reluctance to propose and his pick for the next Bachelor (27:54). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We're pleased to announce the newly relaunched the ringer.com this week. We're really excited for everyone to see the new site. Check out our latest articles, videos, and podcasts at the ringer.com. And special thanks to Miller Light, who have been with us since the beginning and have been fantastic partners. We're thrilled to have them as the relaunch sponsor for the site. Miller Light, the official beer of the ringer. Welcome to Bachelor Party on Channel 33, part of the Ringer podcast network. I'm Juliet Lippman.

It's a big, big day at the Ringer. The site relaunched. And more importantly, we actually got a good Bachelorette finale, or finale, as Chris Harrison would say. It was dramatic. It was controversial. There were a lot of tears. And I have a lot of thoughts, like just so many. And I am excited to get into them. We're going to talk to Ben Higgins, the former Bachelor. But first, I want to talk to my colleague, Ringer, special project editor, Hanna Georges. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Juliet. How's it going? Let's just say it out loud. This podcast is not going to be nice to Brian. I've been very mean to him since I first encountered him. And I don't feel differently after tonight. Let me just say that.

So there's a lot to talk about Brian and Peter. Like I want to talk about Eric because I really like him. But there's just so much with the other two that I'll be honest. I don't know if we're going to get to him. Let's begin with Hannah. How are you? What's your final verdict on this season? This was your first time watching, right?

The Bachelor. Yeah, this is my first time watching all the way through. So I've popped in here or there. And this time I was like, I'm going to do it. I love Rachel. I can't not watch this season. She's a first black batte ralette. It's going to be great.

I don't know why I put myself through that. So do you regret it? Would you do it again? Oh, God. Yes, but I think that I would have more wine involved. I don't know. I would just prepare for it differently. I feel like this time I was like, it's going to be fun.

So you were too sober. Entirely too sober for the entire season. But that just seems unhealthy. So, you know, I don't know what I would have done. Monday night's not my favorite night for wine drinking. Yeah, no, not I do. I have things that I like to get done during those, you know. Yeah, totally.

It's the beginning of the week. You can't, like, ruin it on Mondays. But I just am so overwhelmed by how much I dislike watching Brian. I kind of feel bad about it because I don't know him, so he might be a good guy. And I want to trust Rachel. But he won. He's engaged to Rachel. And I can't, I just can't get over it.

Like, I don't know. I find him very off-putting, which is a mild way of putting it. Are you surprised she chose him? Last night's finale aside, are you surprised she chose him? I think the cynic in me isn't surprised. The cynic in me saw sort of her tumbling toward only prioritizing this sort of, you know, farce of the show. But there was really, really a part of me that kind of saw her growing with Peter and sort of, you know, like many fans of this season, really believed in the possibility that she would choose a human being who had some substance to him. Do we even know if Peter has substance, though?

I'm not sure. I, you know, I feel like he's so boring that he has to have substance. Right, like he's hiding it or something. Right. Or who just thinks about things, at least, you know? My final review of Peter is that he's emotionally withholding, which I guess is like why this happened. But I know he's very handsome. People really like him.

But I don't think he'd be a good bachelor because he just doesn't give himself over to it or not. Definitely not. Yeah, I think that he, the reason that she didn't pick him and the reason that he you would be a bad bachelor the same, which is that he kind of doesn't let himself fall for the conceit of the franchise. Right. And if you're going to sign up for this, you've got to sign up for this, you know? Right.

And that's why she was like, this is not the right show for you. Like, this isn't the right, like, journey for you. Right. She really shut that down. She really did. You really don't want him to be the next bachelor. Okay, cool. She really did.

I wouldn't want to be the next bachelor either. She definitely still into him. That was like, oh, oh, God, that hurt. Yeah, I mean, who among us wants? and ex that we are clearly still into to have their process of finding love televised. I certainly wouldn't. So I have a question for you. When they were having their really emotional, like, this is what's happening.

She's come to his room. They're wearing the matching outfits. Did you consider that a breakup, like the conversation we were seeing? I have watched so much reality TV that I just expected that to be a heavy conversation. And I expected them to come back from it. I didn't think that it was a breakup. And I thought even as she sat there, even as they were talking it out on, you know, with Chris Harrison right there, I still expected something to pull through.

So I didn't think that it was a breakup until they kept referring to it as such. Yeah, exactly. So Chris Harrison's like, I've watched a lot of breakups. Yes, Chris Harrison, you have. So have we, because we've been watching this show, at least I have. That was not a breakup. That was like an inconclusive conversation. And I'm convinced there were something else that we just didn't see where they're like,

this is over. Because at no point where she was just like, well, then I can't pick you. And as far as I saw, it left with her saying, I love you and him saying I love you. And then she walked off. And, like, that was the kind of conversation that would leave me. This is what would happen by Rachel. I would have that conversation. I'd be, like, hysterical.

I would get into, like, my conveyance, my car, my cab or whatever. I'd be weeping to myself. And then I would just be like, fuck, I need to talk about this more. And I would call the guy back. And we would have a whole follow-up. Like, that's not done. That's not a wrap on those two. And it was such bizarre editing.

Like, I was so confused by it. Especially because it took up what felt like half of the finale. Yeah, it did. Which was already long. So it was just we're spending all of this time kind of becoming emotionally invested in this scene and in this fallout and in what they're calling a breakup and sort of not getting any resolution. I don't feel like I got any resolution. Me neither. She called it closure when she talked to him on stage.

And I didn't feel like I got closure for a relationship I wasn't part of. Me neither. Me neither. And I still don't really understand what happened. And something happened with Peter, like a few episodes ago where he just was like not into it. I don't know if it was his hometown. I wonder if one of his friends didn't like her, which seems like an outside chance because we got so little of his friends that they didn't even seem like they actually knew each other.

It's like meticulously curated. Yeah, I know. I know. Who are my black friends and are they available today? Like that's like. But not too many of them. Just like a fair number. Just a lot.

And there was an interracial couple there, right? Wasn't there? Yes, definitely. Yes. It was very like, I want you to know that my community is comfortable with this. Right. Okay, we got it. We got it. Yeah. Thanks for making it abundantly clear. But it was just, it was just a really weird edit. And it was by far the most compelling thing that's happened this season. Partially because people being like actually emotional and going through a breakup, like does make for good television, which is part of why the show is successful.

But it was like, he is so stoic. And it made you realize how little you got from him in other points. Right. In a way that, you know, if you zoom out for a second, is actually appropriate. for how long they've known each other. Right. But, of course, that is not the conceit of this year television show. Okay, so I'm really glad you brought that up. Because Peter's being villainized or vilified. I don't know what the word is for...

What's the vilified? Villefy? Okay. He's being villainized or vilified or both for being completely normal. Like, who is ready to propose after not eight weeks, nine weeks, when you spent like a cumulative 30 hours? Right. Brian, the weirdos, sleaze bowl.

Totally. We'll come back to him in a second. I'm not done with Peter. yet. But like, is, in this case, this is kind of like gets back to the problem of the season. And I just feel like this, this season broke the show. Like, yeah, because there's like a genuine connection here that can't be resolved in nine weeks, like for either towards breaking up or staying together and getting engaged. There's a black woman who is unlike every other Bachelorette by the, because of race, but also because she is like a more substantive person.

it seems. And then there's like all of these idiot dudes who just like aren't on her level. And it just seems like there were so many things going on that didn't fit the like the concede of the show. And I, you've, you've referenced like the quote unquote concede a few times. And like at what point did you feel like it was sort of like this is broken? I can't play along with it. Because I think that like kind of there has to be like a breaking point, I think. And that you can pin a point. I feel like we spent what three solid episodes on link. and Kenny. Yeah. Because it was definitely more than the two, the two sort of weird cliff hangary ones.

But I just feel like that distracted from the very central concept of this being a show about Rachel wanting to find sort of lasting love or whatever she wants to find. It just felt like we were watching a spectacle. And that's kind of been my biggest frustration with this season is that it's leaned so heavily into the spectacle of all the other things happening that you lose, you know, the fact that at its core, it's still a game show, you know, competition, whatever, sure, but it is fundamentally about the central person being able to find a partner. And I don't feel like I watched a season of racial Lindsay kind of going through a process through which she will find that person. Yeah. I think that's a really like good way of putting it. Do you think it's possible like for someone who watches less reality TV than I do? Like for you, is it possible to watch a show like this and believe in it and like actually feel optimistic about

the couple's chances? is? Well, I mean, I think it depends on how you define, like, love and the way that people seek it and find it. I think that if people, like, if, you know, if she had chosen Peter and they kind of fundamentally decided that at the end of the day, they were going to do the things that they needed to do as adults, as partners, as committed to one another to make things work, I do think that's possible. I'm not saying it's going to be common or it's going to be, like, the default every single time. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that people would find a of meaningful connection with another person in a way that could lead to like a lasting union.

That's beautiful. No, but it does speak to like why last night's finale was so compelling and weird and people are talking. I think this is the most, I'm happy because I think this is the most people have talked about Rachel's season in the entire run. And it doesn't have to do with race, which is like so refreshing. It feels like the most we've talked about Rachel. Yes, great point.

It is the most we talked about Rachel. and that is like that's refreshing A because like that's kind of like why I was excited about this season why I think a lot of people were excited about this season and I feel like this was the most like you like you said like this is the most we've actually focused on Rachel

and it's really nice that there's not some kind of like made up scandal or some kind of like you know sexual assault or racial subplot going on that is like weirdly refreshing and why I wanted to get into this season The thing that is also just so frustrating is like that could have been the outcome. Like if she wasn't so set on getting a ring and having like the typical Bachelor fairy tale, then she could have been with Peter.

And like obviously we don't know and there's so much editing that goes into it. But it's just so hard to understand how she can stick with Brian after this incredibly emotional goodbye with Peter where she's like so broken up. And even earlier on the episode, her feelings in like confusion over Peter were affecting her time with Brian. Like how can either of them want that? Right. It honestly doesn't make sense. And it's really frustrating to watch. And it was really still, though, interesting to see people kind of dig into her decision-making process and kind of unpack that and think, again, about her and sort of what her motivations might be.

One thing I'm realizing now, even hearing you say that is that she, her run on this show has been atypical in so many ways, so many ways that are clearly frustrating for her, for viewers. and I wonder if part of that was sort of part of her stubbornness rather was her just being like I want one thing about my time on this show to go the way that everyone else's did. That's a really good point that she just sort of like what she probably wasn't aware at the time like what you should you can't be what you're at it's going to be like but that's a really good point that like this is sort of the way the show is supposed to go is you're supposed to get engaged. So even though there's so much emphasis on in the beginning about how she was the first black lead and how this. is like a groundbreaking season, there's just sort of like a level of normalcy that maybe she wanted, which was you get engaged at the end of the show. Right. That's an interesting, that's a really good point. I hadn't thought about that at all. And that's just sort of like what has made this season so complicated is, I've talked with

this a lot. There was no way to kind of like discuss what was happening without making it seem so, like some kind of like a B plot or like kind of an other ring of Rachel in some way. Right. And that has been like really just like shitty. Like that's just like not not fun. Right. Right. Not fair. Totally. And like how do you, one, how do you plan around it?

And two, you know, what do you do after all those things happen? So I don't know. I don't envy her in that regard at all. It must be incredibly difficult. But also the producers could have really could have handled that better. Yeah, it's true. It was really fascinating watching her interact with Peter last night. I think a lot of the time when they like have to face their exes on the specials, it's kind of manufactured or just not that

dramatic because everyone's moved on. But those two definitely have not. Like, how can you? Especially when when you see it right after Eric who, you know, just for a quick moment, can I just say his glow up has been beautiful. I'm very happy. He's beard. He looks great. He looked great last night. What's going on Eric. Hey. I was like, I was like, how do I meet Eric? He's really handsome. He was tan. The power of a beard. Yes. I love his beard. Great. He was definitely, definitely my favorite guy. Like, like, definitely. And I was like, it's going to be so sad when she has to break his heart, which we knew she was going to do, but still, he still somehow seems to have emerged from this process having grown. He looks great. And he sort of, when the two of them talked, it was just very much

like, this had to happen. It was unfortunate. We had some good time together. We learned from one another, cool, like, I wish you the best. And, like, you know, the best that you can hope for in that situation. But it didn't feel abnormal. Right. The Peter thing felt painful to watch. So painful and, like, sad. And actually, I have to say, I was never that into Peter, but like, I like him now. I'm just like, oh, this guy's kind of interesting, which is a real tell about, who I am that I'm like into I'm into this complicated emotionally withholding guy who is like, no, I won't go along with it. But then on the other hand, I'm like, cool, you won't go along with it. Like, good for you. Right. There might be some depth. Yeah. No, no, no. I see that.

I wasn't, I wasn't that fully invested in him before I watched the episode before this, but especially this. I just kind of was like, well, it has to be him because it can't be Brian and we know it's not going to be Eric. So it has to be Peter. Like, please. Right. It's just like ultimately, if they're both kind of making sense, like, let's just say they both have a point. Like, He's like, I think I, I think this could be something, but it's too soon for me to know. And she's like, I need you to commit right now because that's what I'm doing here. Those, those in a world are both kind of valid. Right.

You know, but he, it's just, it's just funny that he wasn't like willing to just like do it. Just be like, okay, sure. Because I don't know, like, it's so unlikely that any of these relationships would last anyway. Like, why wouldn't he just be like, yeah, okay, I'll go along with it. It's kind of like, even if he's being rational, it's very hard to. understand what was like happening in his head because what did he think the end result would be here? Yeah, I don't I don't know. There was part of me that was like, why are you being stubborn about this one thing when you've signed up for this process? Yeah. And it felt like a pride thing more than

anything. It was like, I don't want to be a dude who somebody who this sort of whole country sees proposed to someone publicly. And then if this doesn't work out, I don't want everybody to know that I went through this process and it didn't work out and that I put myself out there in this way, much more so than, like, I don't want to commit to you. Right. It was just really, it was just so strange. And then if you are Brian, who I would never want to be, like, how do you sit, how do you come and sit with her and you're like, okay, cool, cool, that was really awkward.

You are, like, sassing him because you're obviously still into him, but we're engaged and everything's great. Like, how do you go on like that? The same way you go on the show and pretend in every other way, shape, and form. Like, it doesn't, I don't know. Do you feel strongly pop Brian or is it just me being crazy? No, I really, I actively don't like him. And I think I started, I started the season and started watching her interaction being like,

oh, this dude's a little cheesy. He's a little extra. He's a little all these things. And in sort of it became almost sinister the more you watch. Like it's just, it's strange how he can make himself work in every setting, how he does this whole chameleon thing, how he's too, it's too much. And I feel like of the, you know, if that's his fatal flaw and people, Peters is kind of being stubborn or being reserved.

One of those feels like more surmountable than the other and it's not Brian's. Right. He also just like, I think calling a chameleon is a good point. I'm just sort of like, you're just here to try to like play the role of the guy who's going to win. Right. And like he didn't-studied for this. Yeah. Even when he was like, this is, the vibe wasn't there.

Like Rachel and I weren't connecting. That also just seemed like somehow practiced or something like that. I don't know. I just can't. I cannot stand him. I kind of feel bad about it, but I don't really. He'll be just fine. Like, either he marries Rachel or he just gets, you know, famous off of this.

Either way, he's fine. Yeah. I can't stop thinking about Peter and the cheek implants comment. I'm like looking at a picture of him right now, like, wait, are they? I know. It does kind of change the way you look at it because his cheeks are really prominent. That must have been what he met. He had prominent cheeks, right?

Like, how else could that go? I don't know, but I want to find out. Just tweet at him Hey buddy What'd you mean? Yeah I'm just like You know

Just trying to figure out What's going down here Tweet at both of them And see who responds first basically Great And if that doesn't work Then I think we have some resources For some investigative journalism on this front

Yeah absolutely You know just an idea Yeah absolutely What did you think of Spain As a proposal site I guess you aren't You might not be aware But like very often they go to like

South Africa Or like Bora Bora or someplace Like really far flung and this was in Spain. Interesting. I was really annoyed that it gave Brian the opportunity to roll his R's that often. Which again, like I'm clearly, you know, anti-Bryon, so I'm just going to take everything.

But it was, yeah, just the fact that he had the obvious lead-in with all the Spanish there was annoying. I know. It was almost like tailored for him or something. Right. It was just like once that started happening, I was like, oh, no, no, he's going to take this and really, really run with it. And of course he did. It was fine. I don't know.

Anytime Brian. That sounds says it all, Hana. I kind of liked, I generally would, like, for myself, would prefer, like, a Caribbean, some kind of tropical destination because swimming in the ocean is my favorite activity. However, I thought Rachel looked really cute in all the clothes she wore in Spain. Like, it was a really good climate for her. Well, you know, that actually makes me wonder if that has to do with her hair. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, because if she were regularly swimming, you know, even when they did, I remember the hot tub scene with Eric, like her hair was kind of pinned back and up. Like she's not going to be doing, with the kind of style of hair that she has with her hair being straight, she's not going to be doing kind of like immersive swimming experiences or anything. So I wonder if that was in consultation with her on that front. That's a great point. It would just root that's, you know, like if you're a black woman in your hair straight and you want it to stay straight, you're not going swimming like casually. Right.

You're not just like jumping into the ocean, like seeing how it feels. Right. Right. Right. Right. Snorkeling. Yeah. You're just like, nah. That's a really, that's like a good point, though. Also, like, those are the kind of things that, like, I wish a show talked about. Like, you know what I mean? Right. Right. Right. Or she, like, made jokes about it. I, like, actually really, really appreciated that they talked about her eyelashes a lot.

Me too. Oh, my God. They've been so distracting. And I really love lashes, but they've been really, really distracting. And, like, I don't know, I think I was, like, really sad and thought it was cute when Peter talked about how you couldn't pick them up off the floor after she cried them off. That was fascinating. That was also just, like, there's been so many moments this season where you're just like,

this is so fake that the really, like, authentic ones shine through. I feel like every other podcast. I've, like, oh, that was real. And that was very real. But I'm also just like, Peter, why don't you just pick him up or something? Right, right. Right. But it just felt like this, I don't know, like for him to acknowledge this artifice in a way that was, it just, it was a lot happening at once.

And I was like, oh, he's really, really sad. It reminded me of there are like all these memes like floating around Twitter that are like, you know, dudes will be like, you left this here. You have to come pick it up. And the picture will be like a bobby pin. I was like, oh, that's what he's going through right now. It also was just like more a sign that we just only got the tip of the crying iceberg. Right. Oh my God.

Wait. How have we not talked about when he, like, ripped his sweater off? Oh, my God. I love that. I was like, I feel psychotic because I'm like, yes, upset and mean Peter is the hottest Peter. No, I've seen so many tweets and so many responses like that. I think in Allison Davis, who was at the ringer wrote. Yeah, shout to Allison.

Love her. I know, bless. But in Allison's kind of rundown, she said that's like her new sexual orientation is Peter ripping all of his sweater. And crying. He may be one of the hottest Bachelorette contestants of all time. Oh, yeah. Easy. It's what I call attainable hot, which is like he's so out of almost everyone's league.

But the way he like presents himself and like his coloring is makes it seem like you could have a shot. But like no, you cannot have a shot with Peter. Sorry. Right. Right. Like he just might flirt with you at like Starbucks or something. Like it wouldn't be a bar, you know.

Yeah. He'd hold the door for you or something. Right. And he'd be like, oh, that made my day, you know. Yeah. But ultimately, us regular civilians have no. chance with Peter. I actually think I have a better chance with Dean than I do with Peter. Oh, Dean, Dean, Dean sucks. Peter, Peter's just really hot. But yeah, I, I just wish that we saw

more, like, people being, like, truly upset. But I guess you have to really know each other to get that upset. And you have to get to a certain, like, point in the show. And obviously, just not many of them get enough time with Rachel to really, to really do that. Do we ever see Brian upset? Only this week when he was like the vibe wasn't there. And then he like confronts her. And she's like, you didn't feel it? And she reaches at her arms. Oh, right.

Right. And she's like, oh, he could read me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can see where like, I guess like ultimately if you are a woman going into this and you're just like my one goal is to get engaged, I guess you're happy to have Brian around because he's like right there with you. That's what he wants as well. Right. It was I think, you know, it was a pragmatic move in that sense.

And I don't, on the one hand, I don't want to begrudge her that. and I'm also personally in a way. Yeah. A really big part of this show, you may not be aware, is Neil Lane comes every time to, like, present the people proposing the men with rings to give to Rachel. Neil Lane was in it for like a second. We barely saw him. I know.

Yeah. That was bizarre because he's usually like, it's usually a big show of like picking out the rings and Neil showing you all the options or whatever. And I kind of wondered if Brian proposed a second time because of that or something like that. Like, I don't know. The ring didn't get enough air. Time. I don't know. It was weird. Yeah. What did you think of the ring? It was fine. I don't know. I'm not really into like huge diamonds. I like more modest ones. I saw, I saw, um, Menaenao tweeted like a pear shaped or handcut pair shape something. Like it tells me all I need to know. You know, and everybody's saying like, like, you know, flashy, gaudy, blah, blah. Just like Brian. Oh. It's true. But shots of Brian once again. I really like Rachel's look at the end. I loved the dress she was wearing when she got proposed to. Yes. She looked phenomenal. She dresses well in general. I mean, they dress her for this, but she has input.

No, but she knows her. Yeah. She knows her looks. Yeah. Like, there's so many women who don't how to dress their body properly. And Rachel is definitely, like, not one of them. Like, she just, I feel like she looks flattering in every outfit she wears. She does. Shout out to her. I liked her flannel a lot, too, that she wore with Peter. Yeah. Her, like, fall, her, like, autumnal, like, you know. Yeah, she looked great. So, do you want Peter to be the bachelor? That's the big question. No? No.

I don't really want to watch him potentially string along a lot of people because it feels like if we get any emotion out of him, it will be the second to last, if not last episode. And like, I don't want to watch TV for that long. That's just kind of women pursuing somebody who's not, you know, open or down for whatever the show is. Yeah, totally. I also, I think I would be disappointed by the kind of women Peter actually ends up with. So I, which is like, I don't know, I guess it's like a mean thing to say, whatever. This is a mean podcast today. Exactly.

I'm just going for it. I don't think I would like his women. I think it's just also going to be hard to come back after. Like this crop that Nick had and that now that having Rachel. Because it's just like kind of like cooler women than usual. No, I mean, not like there's anything wrong with all of the other ones. But I do feel like the show is gravitated in a slightly different direction for the better. in terms of the women they're casting, if not the men. And I hope it, like, stays on

that course. But I don't know. Like, I guess I'm just kind of like what I'm saying is I'm used to now kind of like professional women who are populating the show. And I don't know if that would like continue and whatnot. And I don't know. Maybe I'm just like casting aspersions all over the place right now. But I don't know. I don't know who should be The Bachelor. I'm stumped. I'm really stumped. Yeah. I don't know. And I'm a little concerned. I feel I would watch, I don't know what this says about me, but I would watch. watch Dean, honestly. I think he's my pick, too.

I think he's the best option, honestly. It would be extremely entertaining. He would have a lot of fun and be awkward. It doesn't really matter who they cast to be, you know, the contestants. Yeah. He would fuck up is one of the reasons he would be fun. And like we would know, we would also know that it's not going to last, you know, but he would be fun about it and it would be great.

I feel like if Peter did it and kind of tried to sell himself as believing in the sort of, you know, conceit of the show suddenly, then it would just feel, you know, it always feels fake, but it would feel especially frustrating after having seen this. I think Dean is my pick too. He's a lot of to keep coming back to because like he just seems like he's like just kind of like down for whatever right now, which could which sometimes leads to the best relationships and you're just like, yeah, whatever comes my way, let's see what works out. Right.

And he just seems like even though he's kind of young, I just feel like he would he would be the most entertaining. And I think he would like trip over himself. Like he would be bad at like balancing the various women. Oh, absolutely. And like an endearing way. Yeah. Exactly.

to be like, oh, this goober. Look at him. Do you plan to watch the show again, Hanna? Oh, God. I don't know. Because, you know, Paradise is, I guess, the next thing. And I don't know that I can watch that. Yeah, it's very fraught. Yeah, right? And then it depends on, I guess it depends on who they cast as a bachelor. Right. I mean, I would love to see Eric, too, but I just don't think he got, he didn't get enough time last night. No, he didn't. He didn't do him. Yeah. And I feel like, also, frankly, especially after the way this season ran, I don't think that they're going to do too black. contestants in a row. Like, they got to space it out. I know, which is like just probably very true and just like shitty. So, right. All right. Thanks for coming on, Hannah. Thank you for having me. We'll talk more about Sorette in a second. But first, let me tell you about our new podcast. We have a new podcast launching this week. Let me tell you about the rewatchables. It's the newest film pod. And it's going to feature Bill Simmons and a roundtable of personalities from the ringer universe discussing movies that can't seem to stop watching. If you're a sucker for cable movies that are on.

constant repeat, this is the show for you. This week, we're breaking down a few good men. I hope to do some rom-cons in the very near future, and we've got so much more coming. Subscribe and listen to the rewatchables wherever you get your podcasts. And now, special guest, good friend of the pod, one of my favorite bachelors, Mr. Ben Higgins. Hi, Ben.

Hello, Juliet. How are you? I'm good, and I'm happy to be talking to you. Likewise. What a weird season it's been. Did you watch the whole thing? I know you were kind of, you were in and out, although you do have your podcast. I do have my podcast, yes. I, you know, I watch it in and out, like you said. There's some episodes I catch the whole thing for. I think there was one week where it's like

four hours of Bachelorette that I didn't even try to invest in. And then I was, I was gone out of the country for the last two weeks, so I didn't watch The Bachelorette then. So I've been in and out, but, you know, because of the podcast, I try to read notes and I write, read summaries and try to stay up to date. And that's why, you know, my opinion of any of these guys isn't that legitimate. I don't know any of them. I don't know Rachel even that. Actually, I don't know Rachel at all. And so I'm just watching it as a fan now. And, uh, and also learning a lot from like Twitter and Instagram, just kind of reading the comments on how people are feeling about certain situations. Yeah. People really like Peter. It's kind of funny. I'm not one of them. I like him now, but I have not liked him that much.

And now people are just really, yeah, now they just really like, I don't know, people are Jonzing for Peter, but I don't think he should be The Bachelor. It's a little bit like, though, like, why did he sign up for the show, though? Like, if he wasn't going to do it, why did he sign up for it? I don't think he went into it, not thinking he would do it. I think he went into the show thinking, we'll give this a shot. And then once he got to the moment where this became real, where he was actually had to make the decision, am I going to propose or am I not?

Then it probably hit him like, well, I'm not ready. But you don't go on to this show knowing what your feelings are going to be or what to expect. Right. You can't, there's probably no way to, like, anticipate it. No, if I walked onto the show, right? Okay. So I sign up for The Bachelorette. And I don't even know at this point when I'm signing up who the Bachelorette's going to be, right?

Right. But I'm telling, and you ask me, hey, why are you going on the show? And I would say, because I'm where you get engaged. And if at the end of this, I'm there, I'm proposing. That, to me just seems weird. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So why did you go on the show?

No, you don't agree with me. No, I just, why did you go on the show? Because it was a new experience. Maybe possibly I could have fallen for the person. And it shook life up a bit. And I think if anybody goes on the show says, you know, at the end of this, I'm going to get engaged. I think you're crazy. I think you go on the show going at the end of this, I could possibly fall in love.

Right, right. Yeah, no, that makes sense. It makes sense. It's just sort of like, I was talking with this earlier as well, sort of like she was invested in the structure of the show and he was invested in her, but not in the show, which is just so fast. which is so fascinating because I don't think she didn't like him. I think my main takeaway is like they still really like each other and I find that kind of upsetting.

I wish there was like a way for them to like to like test things out. Like I don't know, give it a shot. For some reason, my takeaway is I'm upset that Rachel and Peter aren't together. I think that's like what a lot of people felt, but they weren't really articulating. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And I think you make a great point there. Like I think your analysis is perfect. She, for whatever reason, kind of got maybe sucked into, to the full.

format and what this could lead to where he was just saying, hey, this is so good and so real to me that being on a timeline and being stuck into a format of a show doesn't seem okay. And I'm going to stand firm in that. You've got to give him a lot of credit. You also got to give her some credit. I mean, she knew what she wanted and she stuck through her guns, even if she really loved Peter. Yeah. I just like, honestly, I know this is going to make.

almost watching the final rose last night I thought at one point there was Peter and Rachel were so angry with each other they're just going to start making out I know they're just like there's so much tension that you're like why if you really are over this person why is there so much tension yeah

they're not over each other sorry Brian they're not over each other it's very clear to everyone who's watching it's bizarre I don't know I like I really dislike him but now I'm talking myself into feeling bad for Brian because like she's just still into Peter We can all see it.

Yeah, a good-looking dude. He wears a suit well. He seems like he can handle a conversation. He's intelligent. Had some, like, tendencies I think he thinks a lot, which is not a bad thing. Yeah. But he's going to make himself super nervous as the bachelor. I'll tell you that right now.

Why doesn't anybody talk about Eric being The Bachelor? I mean, he seemed to be pretty likable, right? Yeah, I was discussing this. I liked him a lot. I don't know why we're not talking about Eric more, though, because he, I don't know, I really liked him. He had a great showing last night after the final rose. He seemed really fun and relaxed.

And he just seems like kind of easy to be around. I like him. It's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I think he's great. I just talked to him today. Really? Yeah, he's, you know, he's likable. He's funny.

He's confident. He has a lot of positive energy. Like he's not spencing. That sounds like he's manipulative. Manipulative. No, he's like, he seems to be. turn situations into being very positive and he seems to have good insight.

I don't know. I'm surprised that I was kind of confused on how he's never been brought up in my mind or what I've heard in the Bachelor conversation. Yeah, I haven't really heard him either. I wonder if he's just not popular enough. Like, the people seem to like Dean and Peter the most from the season as far as I can tell.

But Dean goes to Paradise, so I think his profile will probably take a hit in some way. Yeah, I mean, somehow I'm talking about being a bachelor, but Eric isn't. So that just confuses me. Up in the mountains in Colorado, and somehow I'm still talking about being a bachelor. Because you're beloved, Ben.

They wanted every man. They want the layman. The kid that still sits at a cubicle. That's our guy. That's the guy we need. What's your price? If they were like, we'll offer you $1 million. Would you do it?

You know, money to me is not worth the, emotional toil it would probably put on me again. The show was rough on me, Julia. I know, man. Before and after. You know, I never want to get to a place where you're numb to other feelings. And at some point in The Bachelor, you kind of have to become numb to other feelings because you're breaking up with somebody so often and it becomes so real at some point.

And then at the end of it, once you're done breaking up to people with people is one of the biggest moments of your life where you could possibly be proposing the person you're going to the rest of your life with. Like, I don't, I'm not at an emotional, stable place right now to take that back on. Right. That's interesting. Yeah. It's like, it just seems like it must be so intense. I can't imagine, like I can't imagine what it's like to feel, to think you're, to feel like you're falling in love with someone or falling in love with someone. And then have it be on camera and also like just having to decide like your future together so quickly. Like even if Rachel and Peter had been like, yes, let's give this a shot, no proposal,

even that having to like make that choice in that moment is really intense. Like I kind of can't imagine it. Like it must must be like really emotionally just like damaging in some way. Peter didn't seem good. By the way, Peter has aged a lot over the course of this season. Like his gray hair has gotten worse. He just looks stressed out. I mean, you see, you should see my before and after pictures.

Yeah, it's terrible, Juliet. Wrinkles, gray hair, receding hairline, gone to crap after The Bachelor. Come on, I saw you after. You're being hard on yourself. It is hard on you, though. And you're right. I mean, that's the thing is, you know, anybody that goes on this show and comes out of it, you know, if you're the lead on the show and you come out like, just,

and you're joyful and you're like, yeah, that was easy. That was whatever. I just don't think, I don't think it should ever be easy. Like, it's going to be hard. It should be hard. Even if you don't, if you think the Bachelor is a joke. Like, if you think the show is just funny and fun to watch and it's entertaining, that's fine. And I get that.

I get that. But, like, when you're in it, it is, it is emotional. It is hard. And you don't, you don't want to become any situation in life. You want to care about others. And in The Bachelor, you just have to, in Bachelorette, you just have to care about a lot of people. And it gets tough. Right.

Sounds exhausting. It really seems exhausting. I don't know. You can get you on the show. Me? Yeah. No. You'd handle your stuff well.

No. Come on. That's nice, but I don't think so. I just, I've now, over the course of this podcast, I've talked myself into wanting more of Rachel and Peter together. I'm just like, can we trap them in an elevator and have, like, a security camera in there and they don't even have to know? Or, like, what can we do to get more Rachel and Peter? Because I'm not done with that story. Like, it's, it finally got good at the very end, and now it's over.

I'm so bummed. Yeah. exactly. We didn't get enough. You know, I can kind of, I kind of feel, I don't know, I don't want to do this. I know how real this moment is for Rachel and Brian. And I know that they're walking out of this and they've probably anticipated the moment where they could be in public and they could be, they could show each other off and that they could be a couple and go on dates and start life together. And I want them to be able to celebrate this time, especially if they really do care about each other and this is a real love. Like, I want this to be good for them because I know how real it was for me and how much.

I desired that joy and just those moments after the show. But with all that being set, there was tension last night that I don't think we got fully cleared up between Peter and Rachel. And as a result, I'm with you in the sense of like, hey, I want to see them back together. Well, how does this end? Instead, they just be mad and they walk away. I know. One thing that's interesting is, like, they changed the format of the show a little bit. So the decision is made, or I don't know if that's a completely.

completely true, but I basically wish we could get like a Jason Mezzanick situation where he chose Melissa Aycroft and then switches to Molly after the final rose. And like I just really wish that would happen. I don't know. I just feel like Rachel and Peter, I'm just now convinced that they're meant to be. We need to make it happen somehow. It's, uh, is that Jason, I love Jason. He's the greatest dude.

I've heard he's a good guy. That's brutal. I know. Absolutely brutal to think about. Like the emotional turmoil that, um, I forget. the person that he turned down or had to literally propose. Yeah, Melissa had to go through, like, in front

on national TV. That's hard. I know. There's been some moments in the show when they do a highlight reel. I think some of them that I remember is it the Casey and Vienna girl and then the Jason situation, all that. There's some really emotional moments that

are great to watch and hard to think about real people going through. I know. I know, because it is like someone's life at the end of the which I often forget when I'm like being really mean. It is. It is definitely somebody's life. Ben, what do you think about the, like, just the franchise in general? How would you rate this season, like from what you saw?

I mean, how are ratings? I haven't looked at it. How did the final season ratings go? They were okay. They think they were down over Jojo, but they were still pretty solid for the time slot. Yeah, Jojo was really popular. Yeah, I mean, Aaron Rogers' brother was on it, so. Yeah, that's a huge poll.

You know, I think the franchise, it seems like it's at an okay place. There has obviously been some issues within the franchise that I don't think have been handled perfectly, but they seem to be getting out of them and kind of moving forward. You know, I don't know if Bachelor in Paradise is a great look for the franchise. I think it kind of takes away a little bit from maybe the elitiveness or the, the Bachelor and Bachelorette just being this beautiful experience where solid normal people go through

and try to find love. I think The Bachelor in Paradise kind of exposes people too much and maybe fans are going, I used to like this guy and I used to like this girl, but now I just am seeing through it. I don't know. That's a hard question. I don't, for some reason, maybe I'm wrong. And please tell me, I don't get the sense that the franchise is at the most popular place it's been,

but I still think it's good. And I still think it's going strong. It's been a weird summer. It was really, Nick season did really well, as he would be happy to discuss with you. And love Nick. Do you love Nick?

He's your favorite. No, Ben, okay, when I talk to Nick, he's like, you love Ben, he's your favorite. And now when I talk to you, you're like,

you love Nick. He's your favorite. So you guys can just talk to each other. I do like Nick, though. And, anyway, but then, like, there's just been all of this controversy

this summer. So it's just been kind of weird. I honestly think that for all the controversy that I have felt conflicted about, last night's episode is one of the best Bachelorette finales, I think I've seen in a while. You're the first person to tell me that everybody else felt disconnected and uninvolved and felt like it had a lot of loose ends. I think if you take the Rachel and Peter stuff, like almost like in isolation, like outside of the rest of the season, it was compelling television.

I was like, wow, these people are like really tortured and really upset and I feel for them. And that's what it's about, right? like feeling compelled. I don't think I could say that about most of the other episodes this season. I thought Rachel had a few moments where I was like, wow, this is really real. She's interesting.

I want to know more about her. But like moment to moment, I just found the guys to be really unimpressive. So I think compared to the rest of the season, I was like, wow, this is really good. And just in general, like, usually the finales are such a foreground conclusion. And, like, they did not spend a lot of time last night

on Neil Lane or, um, sort of like preparing to propose there wasn't a lot of like the kind of usual beats of a finale partially because they intersplice that after the final rose throughout instead of saving it for the last hour so that made it more interesting to me and I liked having I think because Rachel's so thoughtful I liked having her way in as they went along instead of waiting for the end yeah I mean that's good that's a good point Rachel Rachel is a I mean she handled herself very well I would agree I don't think I felt that early on to the men in this season way maybe weren't up to par.

They weren't. They weren't. So, yeah, I don't know, you know, kind of where that led, but Rachel, and just, if you just take her in isolation, she handled herself very, and I think sometimes maybe, like, too direct. But I thought she managed the process, which you have to do as a lead, extremely well. And she's going to walk out, you know, without anything else to be said, I hope she walks out of this. And her and Brian skip off in the fairyland.

happy forever. Like I hope that's like she just she deserves it. Yeah, I think they will be. They seem pretty happy. I'm happy for them. Ben, thanks for coming on. I'm always a delight to talk to you. We call you the Mel Kuyper Jr. of the Bachelor here at the Ringer. So I mean, that is just such an honor. It is if I could, you know, if I go down on my legacy as being the expert on the Bachelor, uh, God will be very proud of the life I live, I'm sure. We're going to hear more from you on the Ringer podcast network. I won't say where, but it's going to happen. You'll be on. some other shows. I'm excited and talk about it.

We're going to stay tuned. Do you guys have to listen to every episode to make sure you catch Ben? Juliet, call me anytime. I will, buddy. I'll talk to you soon. All right. Bye. All right.

Thanks to everyone for listening. This has been Bachelor at Party. And, you know, we've got to find out who the Bachelor's going to be. I'm working on a couple special episodes, so keep an eye on this feed. And I will be back soon.