The Press Box - 'Bachelorette Party' — Whaboom's Exit, Crazy Group Dates, and a New Villain Rises (Ep. 316)

Episode Date: June 7, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman is joined by former Bachelor Ben Higgins to discuss this week's episode of 'The Bachelorette.' They talk about Blake and Lucas's final moments (8:08), possibly the strangest group date in 'Bachelor' / 'Bachelorette' history (17:44), Eric's drama with some of the other guys (28:00), and 'Bachelor in Paradise' (39:07). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, the Ringer launched Binge Mode, a podcast dedicated to rewatching and giving expert analysis on our favorite TV shows. For the next six weeks, the Ringer's Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion will dive deep into HBO's Game of Thrones. From theories to history to their best impersonations of Robert Barathean, watch along with our Thrones experts. The first 10 episodes of Binge mode dropped Monday, June 5th. That was yesterday, which corresponds with Season 1 of Game of Thrones. Every Monday after will release a new batch of 10 episodes leading up to the premiere of Game of Thrones season 7. You can subscribe to binge mode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Bachelorette. I'm Juliet Litman. This week's episode of the Bachelorette was pretty excellent.

I think the week three is my favorite week of every season and therefore had to bring one of my favorite guests, Mr. Ben Higgins. Hello, Ben. Hey, Juliet. Week three, one of your favorite episodes. Yeah, I think week three is always good. I was just thinking about it because you've whittled it down. Like they started with 31 guys. Now they're still like way too many. But you can really focus on like who's important, who matters. And the group dates are also smaller.

I just think it's a good, I think it's a good number. So we're going to talk about the episode. We're going to talk about Lucas and Wabooms fighting. We are then going to get into the group date when they went to Ellen. Then we'll spend some time on Eric. We'll do a sweep of the news in the Bachelor world. And then I'm introducing a new segment today, which is, the closing Rachel highlight because she's so awesome. She deserves like the best Rachel

moment of the week. So we're going to start doing that starting today. But first, Ben, what's up with you? Where are you right now? I am sitting in my office in Denver, Colorado. Well, I just got done working for the day. Nice. What do you do? Well, I still have the same job I had before all this craziness happened. I am, I'm selling a brokerage software for the financial services industry. So if you want me keep going into that, we can do that. Or we can lose a bunch of listeners. Well, do you have some friends where you've known them for so long that you can no longer

ask them like the big life questions? Like you just have to pretend that you know? Yeah, definitely. I don't want to go down that road with you. I wanted to have clarity. Precisely what your job was. So I saw an opening and I seized it. I love that

Well and I do have to I'd be so upset with myself if we hung up the phone And I wasn't able to tell you that I am still working And generous coffee Is up and going Nice We're close Yeah we're getting ready to launch the website

Which is amazing So if for anybody it hasn't heard or know about it yet There's a couple buddies and I started a coffee company That all profits are going to Three different charities including Humanian Hope United, which is the charity that I'm on the board of. So that has been just like a kind of a passion project for me over the last few months, and we're just getting ready to kick it off.

That's awesome. Are you like a coffee connoisseur? Like, are you a big coffee drinker? Not at all. No, no. Actually, it kind of all came out of nowhere. We were just really looking for a for-profit idea to support nonprofits because fundraising is hard and difficult.

and time-consuming. So coffee was a great product for us because it can come straight from Honduras, which is a country that we have a lot of connections in. So that's where that came from. Cool. Well, that's exciting. And then you have a third gig, which you didn't want to discuss, but I'm going to make you. There's actually two things. There's two things. One is that, obviously, if you listen to this podcast, you probably know, Ben is no longer with Lauren. Right, Ben? That is correct, Julia. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Okay. You know, I am. Just to be as brief as possible, as short as possible, like breakups aren't fun. They're difficult and they're hard and I'm not great at being single and I don't like this world, the transition, but I'm doing really well.

Good. Well, it sounds like you're busy because the other thing that you're doing is you have a new podcast. It's called Almost Famous. Thank you for bringing it up on your podcast. Well, I wanted to bring it up because I'm a little upset. I mean, we have talked about it, you and I, because I just think you should have done a podcast with me. I was never offered. I was never asked.

I didn't know it was on the table. I would have loved to. I didn't know it was on the table, Ben. Oh, God. Well, I was upset, too. I was kind of waiting for that call, waiting for, you know, hey, you know, Ben, we could talk more. but no I got a call from IHeart Radio a few months ago and they and they just asked if I would have any interest in in pursuing a podcast and it was kind of a general idea behind it was not exactly Bachelor or Bachelor at Focus but just more life and kind of what's going on so that's where it's spun from and I actually Juliet surprisingly I really like to talk and I really like doing the podcast So, yes, I'm upset that you never asked, but that doesn't mean we can't continue to talk this way.

That's true. That's true. I know. I'm happy you're on today's show, and I'm happy for you. Your co-host is Ashley I of The Bachelor World, and everyone knows. How is it going working with her? It's actually going really well. It was a surprise pairing.

Ashley and I knew each other, but not super well. Yeah, you're surprised. But it's going great. And actually, the more and more I get to know about Ashley, the more and more I just appreciate her humor and intelligence. And then her perspective on life and the Bachelor and Bachelorette, the one thing about Ashley that I'm not necessarily, I don't feel necessarily the same about it. She is a massive fan of the show. Right. I'm like to the point of, you know, I think when she cries on these shows, it's not coming from a place of drama or like any type of not being real.

She's being completely real. She's being herself. She's being as generous as possible. She's so obsessed as the Bachelor and Bachelorette. It's fun to talk to her because I don't get that way a lot of times. Sure. Yes, she's like a real analyst of the game. Mm-hmm.

Yes, she is. Is she liking this season so far? She loves it. Yeah. I actually just talked to her about it because for a while I wasn't, you know, really, it was just weird for me. You know, Jojo's season was weird to watch. Sure. Just not.

I just didn't. And Lauren and I at the time were just kind of just trying to separate ourselves. And then next season, I watched it as much I could, but I was really busy at the time. I missed a bunch of episodes. So I wasn't as invested as I am right now. And I think I'm invested right now, honestly, because this is going to sound weird. And I've been told that it's always been this way. But I'm just seeing it now, maybe because, you know, I've been blinded to it.

But, like, this crop of guys just seem incredibly unique, abnormal. Odd, interesting. She is a good word. No, I'm not calling that I'm interesting. I'm calling your take interesting. I think that I think you're dancing around the fact that these dudes are not as good as Rachel. Like, she is awesome. And I just think they're not as good with her.

I mean, like, this is a good segue into the week's episode. Because probably the two worst dudes were Lucas, aka Wabom. I just call them Woboom and Blake E. And they, the episode began with them kind of having like some. attention and basically Wabooam told Rachel this story of how he I don't know how he knows this but he claims that Lucas was standing over his bed while he was sleeping and he's sorry Blake was doing that while eating a banana let's listen to the clip and Lucas will explain it I mean the other night like you know he was over my bed you know peeling a banana and he was like

licking the banana like this. You know, I woke up and I was like, why, why is this? Okay. Yeah. Is this a real or is this a joke? Okay. So, you know, that's an absurd story. A lot of questions there.

Like, did someone tell him? Did he secretly have his eyes open? Like, what is that? It doesn't make any sense. Buddy, I mean, his eyes were a little bit fogged over during this conversation. conversation from a place. Sure. But his mind was going to a place that was not only confusing, but just odd, but I don't know

about you, but that part didn't even upset me because I think Rachel is so smart and definitely smart enough to realize in that situation that like whatever Lucas is telling her isn't exactly true. And if it is true, like there's a backstorm. And so I don't think that didn't upset me that much. Well, okay. And Blake's rebuttal was like even more ridiculous. So she confronts Blake about it.

And do you remember what Blake said? He was like, this can't be true. This isn't true because I'm on a special diet and I don't eat bananas because I don't eat carbs. Oh, so good. So good, Blake. That is so, so L.A. Like, what an L.A. response. And as we know, Blake lives in Venice Beach where he's like obsessed with his penis.

And it's just completely absurd. I don't know how Rachel held it together during that moment. No, she's doing a great job. We both recognize that. You know, doing this myself at one point and now seeing her in the same situation. Sometimes I think in the back, I remember like situations like this, and I never had something as crazy as this happened. But when these conversations are occurring and you're like, this is just off and odd. But you want to listen and you want to be attentive to what the person's saying in the back of your head.

I can't imagine what the conversation was going on in Rachel's head. Like, and so upset and so mad at just knowing that, like, she is, you know, dating this guy that is also telling her that, you know, there's no way the story's true because his diet doesn't allow it. When you were on the show. Oh, go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say that's the moment that Blake really, I think, started to irk me for where I really recognize that this guy and I just don't see I die. Yeah. I mean, that's a kind way of putting it.

I have a question for something that you just said. Yeah. When you were on the show, did you really consider it like I'm dating all these women? No, I don't think so. I think I would say, yeah, you'd say you're going to know them. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like, especially cocktail parties, felt like you were at a networking event. Like you're kind of just bouncing around talking to as many people as possible.

getting to know as much about somebody as you possibly can. But at the end of the night, you're exhausted because you're socially drained. And so none of that is exactly refreshing. Right, right. So dating, hopefully, is refreshing. Networking is not. That's true. Okay.

That makes sense. Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it, I guess. Okay, I have a theory to share with you. Some people are saying this Blake, and by some people, I mean, my coworkers, Blake and Lucas were on a show together before. They were on a show called X-Ile, and one of them hooked up for the other one's X, and now one of them is roommates with some whatever. They have all these connections. Do you think it's possible that that fight at the end, we'll listen to the clip in a second, was completely staged, and they're in cahoots together?

Oh, no. I think they absolutely hate each other. I mean, if you're going to, and my theory is, if you're going to stay. a fight, like stage it out where you both look decently intelligent in your responses to each other. I know. If they stage this, they stage it with the idea of let's make each other look as ridiculous as possible so that maybe people talk about it.

But like that wouldn't make that much sense to me. It was pretty absurd. Actually, the only thing that I was kind of won me over on this theory was, Blake was a little too good at saying Wa'Boom himself. Like here, let's listen to him. You're a washed up joke. I can't help but feel like if you weren't here, I would have had a real shot at getting to know Rachel, but because you were too busy, and making a joke out of this experience, I'm going home. You win, Lucas. It's like he's done this so many times before. I just was like, I was like, I don't know how to do the Wabooom convincingly. I'm not going to try right now, but I couldn't do it. And I feel like Blake's pretty good at it. That's like he's so good to almost like copyright infringement or something.

No, you're right I don't know honestly Julia I guess I've never been thought about it that way the only thing I thought during this whole argument was I just feel bad for Rachel You know honestly like this This situation is taking away from

It's actually not taking away It's entertaining and it's making her life easier Because she's probably sitting back laughing Hopefully maybe having a drink Watching this go down because this is a moment that she doesn't have to be talking to these two crazy. Right. And it's almost that they basically eliminated themselves.

Like she didn't even make the work hard for her. No. No, definitely not. Yeah. So they could just piece out, bounce out of there. Definitely. I would say to just a tip. Ooh, a Ben Higgins tip.

I love it. I wish I had a sound effect for that. This could be a new segment. The any time. you meet a man who speaks of his anatomy in the way that he did from the very beginning. That's probably not somebody you want to invest too much time and too long term. Agreed. I would just take that away.

So all the people tendering, bumbling, hinging, whatever you're doing out there, if on the first day or even within the first couple texts back and forth that this comes up, and this is a point of pride or of bragging from the person, just kindly walk away. It's not worth your time. You're so right, Ben. And quick follow-up are you using dating apps now that you've referenced them? No shot.

No way. Oh, my gosh. So you'd rather go on The Bachelor. You'd rather go on The Bachelor than use Tinder, is what you're saying. Oh, my gosh. Well, wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa, let me be careful how I respond to this. Neither.

But, no. The idea of dating apps is just not a good place for me right now. I'm stumbling. I don't even know the words that tell you right now. Like, this makes me nervous talking about it. Yeah, you're so flustered. Wow. I'm flustered.

I don't want to, Julie. I don't want to. Okay, okay. I just wanted some clarity. Thank you. You provided it. We can move on now. Let's move on to the Ellen group date.

By the way, being on a group date seems like that would give me anxiety, but that's okay. So, oh. Ellen is the site of this week's group date, which, by the way, this show is really stepping up the celebrity appearances. So far this season, we've had Milakunis to National Culture. We've had Kareemarim al-Jul-Jabbar. Now, Ellen, who's literally one of the most famous people in the world. It's crazy. It is crazy.

Yeah, it's exciting, too, for the show. I mean, it shows that the impact the show has. Obviously, these celebrities are going on the show to help Rachel out, but also to kind of promote, you know, their show or whatever projects they were doing at the time. Yeah, but what's Ellen promoting? I mean, she's... I mean, probably your show. Yeah, I mean, of course, but I don't even think she needs it.

Like, I just feel like these people... I just feel like The Bachelor is more popular than ever, and the celebrities are turning out for it. Did you see last week with Ashton and Mila? Yeah, yeah, no, and then Kareem? I mean, that's crazy. I know. I'm, like, obsessed with Ashton and Mila now.

I didn't really think about them now. I just think they were the best. Hope they never break up. anyway. And that's exactly why they came on the show, so that people like you would now become obsessed, Leno. Well, it was a success. They just seemed so great and normal.

I'm really into them. I also thought it was funny that Ashton said he started watching the show because people said he looked like Jared, which is just not true. Anyway, back to this week. They go on the Ellen group date. And I thought this was one of the more awkward dates in Bachelor history, which is maybe controversial. However, they have the guys, they play some games, whatever, but they also have the guys take their shirts off and basically like dance like strippers.

Like literally, Brian had like all these dollar bills coming out of his waist as a result. And this show is definitely sexist and like, you know, has a lot of things that are wrong with it. And like, that's fine. You accept that's the price of entry of watching this show. But I kind of thought this was sneakily the most explicit objective. of men or women, like maybe in the show's history. They made them into strippers. Yeah, right?

Yes, that's exactly. Maybe that's why it makes everybody feel so uncomfortable. Does it make you, like, am I making you uncomfortable again, Ben? Yes. I've talked to you for 15 minutes and I've been uncomfortable the whole time. I'm sorry. I want this to be a happy place for you. You bring up my relationship.

You bring up the dating apps. You bring up with my bachelor. If I go on The Bachelor again, you bring up male strippers. Like all of this is hitting just too close to home. No, I think, honestly, like, I like your point. It's the price you pay or you know you're getting into it when you watch The Bachelor Bachelor or The Actrat. You know, the argument of is it sexist or not, you know, that's always going to exist in a show like this because the format is the way it is. Yeah.

This segment, and I've felt very odd just about myself after watching this week's episode, is because I was negative the whole time. You were? I don't think there was a moment in this episode that I was like, not that, like, I wasn't mad at the show. I wasn't mad at the people. I just felt like the whole show was, like, kind of rubbing me the wrong way, making me feel too anxious. But, like, especially this date, right? Yeah.

For one reason, this date made me feel out very odd because I pictured myself on this date and I know what kind of shape I'm in compared to these guys. And I was like, this would be one of the most embarrassing places you could, or, put me in, like, ever. And then, yeah, it was just weird to watch all these, like, dudes just don't dance here. Yeah, it just was, like, a lot more explicit than the show usually is.

And, like, you know, like, it's 25 women vying for a man's attention. And even, and obviously they do the opposite now with Rachel as well. But, like, first of all, The Bachelor is, in their ratings more popular than The Bachelorette. And the whole show just sort of imposes a really, conservative, like small C, like, value set onto, like, what is marriage and sort of, like, how you should approach it or whatever. And, like, obviously, there are people come out to the show who I really like, and I don't think everyone just goes on, like, purely because they're just looking for marriage and think this is it. Like, and obviously you can speak to

that more than I can. But it's, like, you know, people go on, to be on a reality show and, like, for a funny experience, whatever. But it does impose a certain, like, really retrograde structure, which, you know, for whatever reason, doesn't bother me and millions of other people. Maybe it should. But it just. just this one week watching them strip on Ellen was just like so, I was just sort of like, whoa, this is kind of a different level for this show. And like, I don't know if it was good or bad, but it definitely was the most like, oh, these are pieces of meat and like we're going to have fun with them than more so than usual. And that's not even romantic. Because usually

there's like kind of like a, it's either like super goofy and wacky or like overly romantic, like too, like too much so. And this was neither. It was kind of, it was, It was just kind of like a huh moment for me. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, one of the, I remember this, I just thought about this as you were talking. When I was doing my season of The Bachelor, one of the dates that we were coming up with and talking through as a team, because I don't think it's a secret, right? Rachel's maybe helping plan these dates, but like she has a whole team of people helping to put together. Rachel's not like calling Ellen and be like, hey Ellen, can I bring these guys by?

No. So if anybody's watching the show believing that, like, sorry to ruin this for you, but like you shouldn't expect. that. We were in Vegas, Las Vegas for a week of my season, and one of the date ideas was to go to, I think, just do like a striptease class or something. And I think we all kind of sat around the table and talked it through. And then it was like, this just doesn't feel right. It doesn't seem right. It doesn't feel like who I am or who any of these girls are or who we want to portray them as. And so it kind of got nix, but I remember the idea getting brought up. And it kind of like made me think through that and say like you know

what would we communicate to the viewer or to these women if this was the situation I put them in right um and so I mean I don't know give or take that but that was a situation I remember and it was similar to I guess this Ellen experience totally with these guys

but you don't hear a lot of like you're not hearing a lot of like criticism from it yeah I know the date art I think it's partially because Ellen is so like family friendly like you know and her show is in general that it's kind of like having the men like jokingly like be act like strippers on Ellen is very different than like taking a

group of women to a strip club in Vegas or like a strip tea's class in Vegas you know what I mean like it's it's kind of like all about like how you do it and where you do it and I'm not I'm not just like co-signing and we're talking it through right now but it definitely was like interesting like this is the direction they're going with for this show I don't know it was really weird and then it really quickly pivoted they put their shirts back on by the way all these guys have just like amazing bodies

I think they must not eat. I mean, like, I don't, how do you live? I mean, how is that possible? Do you ever have a meal for pleasure? I don't get it. I don't get it. Yeah, it makes me mad. I mean, it doesn't make me mad.

It just makes me more, like, confused because I work kind of hard. I'm just not there. Oh, my God. So anyway, then they put their shirts back on. I would say that Peter, from who had a one-on-one last week, was wearing a really great cardigan. I was really into it. Yeah.

Then they start playing like some never have you ever game. They never have you ever game. And Rachel's like, I love the game, never have I ever. And first of all, I do not. I remember like hating playing it in college, but of course you had to. And one of the questions was have you thought about having sex with Rachel? And it's asked for the six guys. And only and two, sorry, four of them said yes, two said no.

And I have a take, which I'm curious to hear your. opinion on, but if I were Rachel, I'd be like, you haven't had thought about having sex with me? Like, why are you here still? Because this show, at this point, all you have is attraction to each other. You don't only know each other. So if you're not thinking about it, like, what's the point? I would almost be like, okay, well, if you haven't thought about it, then maybe you shouldn't be here. Interesting, yeah. I think those guys had to be lying, right? Yeah, they had to be lying. They had to be.

Like, there's no shy. And maybe they're just nervous, and they just felt like it was an inappropriate question. So they thought they would go with, you know, their grandma's going to be watching this. Their mom, dad, whatever, going to be watching this. Like, I don't blame them for the strategy of, okay, let's, like, be appropriate in the situation that we know millions of people are going to watch here in a couple months. Like, that's okay to me. Sure. Because you don't want to ruin your character or embarrass your family based on some question you're getting asked to Ellen that you know is probably hopefully not going to be that.

important long term. But I agree with you. Because at this point in the show, you have a great insight into this, Julia, but like you aren't around each other very often. All you have is ideas of who Rachel is or who she could be to you. You know, you see her in passing. You see her for moments at a time. You're thinking about her probably most of your day because there's not allowed that else to think about. And I feel like at none of those moments, something intimate pops into your head. Well, that's maybe just odd. Or, hey, more power two, you are pure and I desire to be that pure one day. You do? I don't, I don't desire to be that pure. I was just like, come on. I mean. Neither to you, Ben. It's fine. It's fine. This is not a place for, this is not a place

of purity anyway. But I was just like, why even pretend? I thought that actually was like a bad side. Rachel, like, no, no thanks, guys. Ultimately, ultimately the date was won by Alex the Russian, who was very funny. He apologized to someone's grandmother for dancing up on her, which was like probably the latest moment of the show. It was kind of a breakout week for Alex, but like, he, you know, he got a lot of time on the group day, I guess, because he got the rose, but I'm just sort of like, eh, I'm not investing in him. I don't know. He was one of the ones who said he had, he had an, he had not thought about having sex with Rachel, which is just, you know, as we said ridiculous. We need to talk about Eric, but first, let me tell everyone about one of my

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What I see, I kind of feel like it's a lot of facade. is playing playing. I'm invested. I'm going to be fooled. I don't think she's faking it. I'm just saying like it seemed like she's playing a game until she gets what she's supposed to get. Okay.

So Eric said he didn't think Rachel was being real. Did what he say, ruin wrong for you or offend you in any way? Not at all. Okay. Not at all. He's, no. I'll start with that. I agree because he's not saying she is fake or she has the wrong motives.

He's actually kind of like was just like sad. He kind of like understands of where things are and he's got a sense of like, kind of like for lack of a better word, like the game. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, he's getting into the mode of the mode that you see every season have a couple people feel this way, right? Where they're into Rachel. I think he's doing it well. He's into Rachel. He's not claiming a love or, you know, a long fantasy wedding with Rachel.

He's claiming, hey, I'm just into her and I don't feel that back. and I see her making connections with other guys in front of me that I'm not feeling myself. And I want to know why that is because I know how I feel about her. And the only other participant in this is Rachel. And so she might not feel that way about me. And it really comes down to patience. People stop losing patience at this point because they're too anxious and they're vulnerable. And they don't like to be sharing something that they're pursuing after.

Yeah, totally. So then things get worse for Eric or whatever. Rachel brings in some of her friends from next season. There's Raven who came in second. There's Corinne who was crazy. Neither you nor I liked Corinne. We discussed her last time. She grew on you, though, right?

Yeah, she did grow on me. And I will say, I actually think the other women like her. And like I think you could tell during the season Rachel liked her. And if Rachel likes her, that kind of makes me like, okay maybe she's better than it seemed like I was only seeing her when she was sloppy drunk or something yeah I could tell you that most of the women from I haven't I haven't actually met anybody from last like from next season not one of them but from from Ashley I's perspective most of the women do like current yeah they appreciate who she is yeah I kind of got that sense so like after after I realized like what was happening with the editing I kind of came around on her that's good to hear I'd love to hear I got to talk to

Ash and more better takes yeah anyway Anyway, the women come in and they kind of get to know the guys. They go with Rachel on the mud wrestling date. Very brief diversion. I just want to say that Kenny is a wrestler, a professional wrestler, and he's on this date, and he does not win the group date rose. If you're Kenny, how do you show your face around the wrestling community ever again? I agree.

And he kind of got dominated from at least what it looked like. He wasn't doing a lot. Yeah. Yeah. That was a really tough look for him. Very embarrassing. You've kind of put them on the spot there, right? You don't want to be the professional or something

and then have to go on a date with a bunch of other people and be the best. There's a lot of pressure on that guy. I know. Poor Kenny. He did talk himself up, though. Anyway, so Raven asks the guys who's not there for the right reasons, and Bryce and Lee both say Eric.

and then everything kind of like kind of gets out of control from there and it's also like kind of a tricky conversation because we can't really go much further without mentioning Lee who I don't know if you saw this last week but it basically came out that he had all these tweets from like a few years ago that were basically you know kind of like very like anti-Black Lives Matter anti-Islam like anti-Muslim and also anti-gay. And so there's just kind of like basically very hateful tweets. And I was just curious.

Like when you were The Bachelor, how much, do you know how much research the producers did into the various contestants? And I guess you weren't privy to any information. But do you know what kind of like work went into that? And you might not. If you don't, that's okay. No, I mean, I have an idea, right? I don't think I can see where this would slip through, right?

I mean, I don't think they have a staff of people going through. through every single person's tweets, Instagram, social media accounts that they're casting on the season. I just, I mean, if it's years ago, how do you expect them to do that? Right. They just can't. But they do make sure that you're, I think, safe, that you don't have a history of a criminal history that you haven't psychotic. That kind of stuff does happen. But I could see where, I don't think the, I mean, I think this is a lot bigger issue than, I think this is a bit.

big issue. I do. I think for him to get on the show and have a platform at all right now, I think The Bachelor probably is not excited about it or happy with it, and there's no way they did it. They allowed him to go on the show if they knew what this was going on. Yeah, because it's really bad. If you go back and look at it, like, I mean, this is like one of the least offensive things he wrote, and he said, he said, guys, when is the last time you actually saw a pretty feminist? There's a reason for this. Like, that is literally the least offensive thing that he's written and like this and what and like the sampling I'm looking at. Like it's really bad and it's particularly unfortunate when they have the first black

Bachelorette. Like it just casts like a whole like a whole shadow over this. And on top of that, he becomes like a true villain this week and not in the way that like Courtney Robertson was ever a villain or like who's the villain or even like Nick was a villain. Like Lee says some really like just like offensive things. Like let's just listen to a couple of clips of things he says. I have no reservations to tell you that I said that because you have the least relationship experience out of everybody here.

I don't even think that was a question. Was that a real question? It was a real question. Who's the least experienced guy here? It was a real question. It wasn't a motive thing. It was that out of all the guys, you had the most to learn. So you're saying, you think, I don't think I shouldn't be here? Have you or have you not experienced love? You know the answer to that. Which is no. So you haven't experienced love. Okay, but what are you getting to?

Okay. You are a good. great, capable individual. You have so much potential, and you're an amazing person. But last night, I walked in, and you were screaming. I don't care if Eric disrespects me. Okay, he means nothing. This is all crazy.

This is one kid with a bad issue, and I think there are better guys for her. Eric doesn't like losing. Neither do I. And it's not going to be free. I'm happy you got the rose, man. It's good. You deserve it for growth.

His tweets being surfaced last week and now with this really weird villain turn he's taken is, to me, very uncomfortable. Like, this is, like, definitely the worst part of this season so far. Definitely, yeah. I mean, there's two thoughts I have. One is he's just got to go. And, like, I hope the show, I mean, obviously the show didn't know this at the time. They're not going to tell Rachel to send him home.

But I hope that this just ends because this storyline is not one that I'm in. that I'm interested in it from the sense of, okay, you know, how dark can he go? But that's not also a healthy place for me to watch and be entertained by. So I don't, I just not, it's not a villain that I want to even watch because it's not like a Corinne who is kind of funny and innocent and just a little crazy and like he's not harmful to anybody but herself. He's actually harmful. I feel like to not only the show, but to the people around him. And I agree with you. And there's a level two where it's my own, I guess, my own personality is when I watch him patronize Eric, it's the one thing.

Like, I don't get very angry often. But that would be the one time that, like, as I'm watching it, I'm, like, getting angry myself, knowing that there's a person out there that feels like they can sit on there. High Orson speak down to somebody like he was speaking down to Eric and, like, giving him advice on life in a totally condescending way. really this league guy just I just don't want him around I don't want to watch the show I don't want to watch the show with him in I know he's he's like really like dark I'm like oh this is like from like a weird twisted movie or something he's not fun and then Iggy confronts like Eric talks to him too and Iggy says to him like your opportunities for growth are X Y and Z and I'm like dude is this a job interview like your opportunities for growth are you evaluating his job performance like what the fuck These people just aren't good at like, like, it's like they can't be friends. It's weird, right? Like, I had a couple people when I was on The Bachelorette that I remember, like, Sean Booth and Chris Tramberg and JJ Lane and Tanner Tolbert and Jared Haven. Like, those guys were just good friends to be there in the show.

And they would have never came to anybody and said, hey, here's your opportunities for Grosbin. They just feel like, hey, how you doing? Like, or if I was making a mistake, like, they would just feel like a friend would be like, you're being an idiot. Like, snap out of this. Like, what are you, like, what are you so, like, nervous about? Like, there's 26 of us here. She has no clue what she's doing right now. She's just trying to make it, like, through a day.

Right. Yeah, but, like, none of these guys are, like, lighthearted enough. Like, they're not, like, they don't know if they're having fun. No, not at all, which is, which is too bad because a lot of The Bachelorette is, you know, I do have high regards to this show. I think it can work. I think it can be a great thing. But I think also, like, and I would believe the show would even claim that, it's also just a good,

experience. You can learn a lot about yourself and have a good time. Like, relax a little bit. You're stressing too much. But yeah, it was a weird situation. And just to go back for a second, Lee made a comment. And I want to hear your thoughts because this really shook me at the end of the episode. And I talked about it in the almost famous podcast, but we didn't get to expand on it. And I don't want to quote them word for word because I don't, I just don't have in front of me. but it said something along the lines of, when I anger somebody or when somebody's upset and I just look at them and smile and they get more upset, that brings me joy or something along those lines.

Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, can you get any darker? No, it's like a true sociopath. That's, like, really bad. Like, that's messed up. Yeah. That's, like, really bad.

Yeah, it seems like he's really good at acting one way, and then he's, like, secretly, extremely, like, just, like, villainous. I don't know. He's really bad. I really dislike him. I'm concerned he's going to end up in paradise. No, I don't think the show's done with him. Okay, good.

Well, that's a good transition. I want to talk about the Paradise cast, which was announced today, at least part of it. Okay. I'm going to run down some names, okay? Raven. Yeah. Love Raven. Excited about that.

Craven. I've ever heard on The Bachelor, Bachelorette. Is Raven talking about when she beat up her ex with the show? That was the crazy. I'm not over it. I'm still not over it. Actually, had the pleasure of chatting with Nick recently and asked him about that. And he was like, yeah, it was wild.

Anyway, Raven, Corinne, Amanda. Amanda has two daughters. I do not support Amanda going to Paradise. Oh, she's on your season. I forgot about that. She was, yes. You don't need to comment on her. I know she's friend of Lawrence.

Too close to home. Alexis at the back. I do like Amanda a lot. I don't, obviously, I haven't had any contact with her. I don't know why she chose to go on. But she didn't ask me for my advice, so she's going on. Yeah. You and I both would have advised against it, particularly Amanda.

Alexis, who was the Dolphin Girl next season. I love Alexis. I'm very excited about this. Derek from Jojo's season, who I do not remember at all. Neither do I. I bet I wasn't that connected to that season. Demario, who just left today or yesterday. Interesting.

I kind of want to give Demario a second chance. Rachel was absolutely right for sending him home, but I just think, I don't know. He seems kind of fun. Yeah, and at this point, like, that girl's not with him anymore. You know that. Totally. I know. Go for it to Mariel.

Lacey from Nick's season, who I barely remember. Christina from Nick season, who was great. She's the Russian woman who was cool. Nick from Jojo's season. Nick was, like, tight with Chad last year in Paradise. I don't know if you watched Paradise. Do you watch Paradise, Ben? Doesn't really seem like your style.

I do. I tune in every once for a good laugh. Yeah. I mean, I don't remember Nick. though. I have no clue who that is, but I do, I mean, I'll watch myself in Paradise. It's the only time I get to see the ladies from my season on The Bachelor date again, which is fun to see. I'd like to see them find somebody. I'm cheering for them. Only Amanda from your season announced so far. Pretty crazy. Then there's Danielle the nurse who didn't know, you know, she's a nurse,

didn't know that her fiancee was an addict, which was very weird, and then he died, so I don't one joke about it. Taylor from The Bachelor from next season, who was Corinne's nemesis, so they'll certainly be fighting. Then we got Robbie, who was Jojo's runner-up, Ben Z from Caitlin's season, so you know him. Do you like him? I do like Ben. Yeah, he's a super nice guy. I don't think this is his arena. I don't see him fitting in, I mean, I think the guys will like him. I think the girls will obviously like him, but he's, he is a very nice, just soft-spoken guy. Like, I, but he's ripped, so, I mean, maybe he's Paradise is his deal. He's shirtless the whole time.

Counterpoint, he had that massive shoulder tattoo that just looked like a mess of something. And I don't know if he wants that on display all the time, but that's just me. No, that could get some heat. It will. I want the best for Ben. He really is a good dude. Okay. Yeah, because he was on the show, you were Ben H, and I'll always think of you as Ben H because there was also Ben Z.

There's Ben Z. And real quick, this is funny. We give Ben crap a lot on this when we talk to him because Ben Z has also been known to for a while, like after, I think it was my season. He was just, I think, because he's such a nice guy. He's a friend, but he was in contact with a couple of the women for my season. And so we always laugh like Paradise would be a spot, but then everybody would like converge on him because they've all talked to him before. But I honestly think he was talking to him as friends. That's funny. And then obviously in the world of The Bachelor, people don't just want to be friends. Right. So I think he.

Not here to make friends. No, but I want to get good point. Yes. We're not here to be. Good one. Okay. Then there's Vinny from Jojo's season who is fine and Alex, who I don't recall it all. from Jojo season.

Whatever. Cool. There'll be more people going in. That's quite the lineup, though. Yeah, it's really recent. I guess it's like recency bias. I'm sure there'll be some like, what do you think about Robbie?

Random people. Robbie never wore socks, like literally ever. And, terrible feet. Yeah, it's probably a smelly feet. Robbie was fine. He's not my guy, but that's fine.

There's no one here who I'm like, yes, I love them. But, you know, I think it'll be good. I'm actually more excited about Bachelor Winter Games, which is coming in February, which I don't know what it is, so I'm excited about it. It's like, I think it's a big Bachelor Papp.

I wonder if anybody knows what it is. I don't, I think they might not. I just honestly ask the question. I wonder if anybody actually knows what it is, but I guess we'll wait and see. I don't. Last piece of news, and then our final moment of Rachel, us weekly reported over to the weekend,

or maybe early last week, or end of last week, that Rachel dated while in college, The one and only Kevin Durant of the Golden State Warriors and likely NBA Finals MVP. I have questions. Only person or only source, only outlet on this is Us Magazine, and they reference an insider, but they don't name anyone. And if Rachel was already on this show, how could we have not have known this already? I guess from what the story I've heard, she told Nick, and it just wasn't aired.

Oh, really? Yeah, it just didn't seem, I think, like a storyline that really, made anything more of the show or got to know her better. But good for Kevin Durant. Rachel's a great woman. I know. He might be a world champion, but yeah, I mean, she's the Bachelorette. Wow.

So you're confirming this. Wow, that's big. Okay. I can't believe that. I know as much as you do. I just know that I think it – I just assume it's true because of the sources I've heard it from. Right. Okay.

Good to know. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Very helpful. Just tell me, Nick. No, I'm sorry, I almost did. It's because we were just talking about Nick, you know, you mentioned him. Sorry, my bad.

Nick will be excited about that if he listens to this podcast, which is not likely. Well, maybe I'll tell him to. Okay. Finally, I just wanted to celebrate the best moment of Rachel from this week, which was when she sent Demario home. Let's just listen to the audio. I just need you to understand. I need a man who, when they're confronted with a difficult situation, they don't start lying about it. I need someone who owns their mistakes when they're presented to them.

And I gave you time after time after time standing in that gym looking like a damn fool to give you an opportunity to explain yourself. And to be honest with you, if you had been like, you know what, Rachel, I f***ed up, this is what the situation was right before I got here, but this is why I did it. You honestly probably would be in the mansion right now, but that's not what you did. And what I saw in the gym yesterday, that was a boy. I'm looking for a man and I feel like I have some amazing men in that house who are here for me.

So I'm glad that you've realized that you should move forward but I need you to know that forward isn't that way to the mansion. Forward is outside of it. So I'm glad that this has been a life lesson. I'm glad that you gave me the quote about the joy and the pain

and I hope that the pain that you've gotten from this gives you joy somewhere else. It's just not here right now. Thank you. Wow. What a girl. She is a full. forceful, strong woman who I know we'll get rid of Lee

because it's the right thing to do. And I love her. She's great. She really is like a high quality person. Oh, she's amazing. I mean, she's amazing. Have you met her? A couple weeks ago. I did at a Dodgers game two weeks ago. And we were very quick.

Hi, you know, how you doing? I'm Ben. She's like, well, I'm Rachel. And I was like, I know I've watched on TV. But she's great. I mean, I'm watching her so far and I've heard And, you know, I'm still at close contact with a lot of the producers and staff on the show. And it sounds like she just handled herself well. And she committed to the process. She committed to the long hours and the long days to make the most of the experience.

And they all seem to really like her, which is great because there's a lot of good people that work on the show. So it's nice to hear that the lead treats them well. That's awesome. Well, this has been super fun, as always. Ben. Thank you for coming on. I'm really glad that you still have time for me, even though you're almost famous. And, you know, whenever you want to come back, this podcast is ready to have you. Thanks again. Wow. This is great. Yeah. It's a standing invitation. And if, you know, you want a second podcast, we could figure it out. Well, thanks, Julie. It's always good to talk to you. It really is.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you to hotel tonight. Don't forget to watch binge mode and I'll be back next week. Bye, Ben. See, Juliet.