The Press Box - 'Bachelorette Party'—With ABC Executive Rob Mills (Ep. 328)

Episode Date: July 11, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman is joined by ABC's senior vice president of alternative programming, Rob Mills, to discuss all things 'Bachelor' and 'Bachelorette.' They talk about the most recent 'Bachelor in Paradise' news leaks (4:10), some of this season's 'Bachelorette' moments (17:05), next season's 'Bachelor' candidates (30:24), and the upcoming 'Bachelor Winter Games' (44:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're like me and you're not so great at planning ahead, you have to try Hotel Tonight. Hotel Tonight is an app that helps you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute, up to seven days in advance. It's perfect for a spontaneous getaway or indulging in a little staycation. All it takes is 10 seconds, just three taps and a swipe. So what are you waiting for? Get in on these killer last minute deals and download the Hotel Tonight app now. Welcome to Bachelor Party. I'm Juliet Litman.

Today I have with me, Rob Mills, Senior Vice President. of alternative programming at ABC. Is that correct? That's correct. Thank you. Got it. Great research. Thank you.

So that means that you oversee all reality, all variety. Anything that's not scripted is the easiest way to describe it. Because it's also late night as well. So it's Kimmel. It's all the last time we talked to was right after the Oscar. So it's all the big specials. It was great. Yes, exactly.

And includes all the bachelor shows. And all the bachelor shows, which is a thing in that. And now I've discovered to a new full-time job I have as American Idol. Oh, interesting. You've got Idol. Idol, yes. When's that starting? It'll start next spring.

With Katie Perry. With Katie Perry. $25 million woman. Wow. So Katie Perry, Ryan Seacrest, anyone else announced yet? I think it's about you and me. That's what we have money for left now. By the way, it would be good.

If you're listening, imagine me and Juliet flanking Katie. I love pop music. Be amazing. I love it. Well, I know that. Yes, I know that about you. As a matter of fact, the last time we did it, yes. What do you think about boy, ma'am?

I'm curious. Be honest, by the way, too. It's totally fine if you don't. I'm just glad somebody's watching it. It's very British to me is my main takeaway. Oh, interesting. It reminds me, I think maybe it's because Rita Oura does some of like the narrations over the packages or whatever. Yes, exactly.

But it kind of reminds me of the way X Factor is on the UK. Tiny smidge of Great British Baking Show and the way the packages. It's just a tiny, tiny bit. I'm so impressed with how in the know you are with all these shows and everything. You really do watch everything. I love British television. I wish I could watch it more easily. Sick dick.

I love it. Have you heard about this show? Apparently people who are supposed called Love Island? No. That's this British show. It sounds like it's basically British Bachelor in Paradise. Oh, interesting. I watched The British Bachelor.

Oh, what did you think of that? Well, I'm just so disturbed that Kate Middleton's sister is married to Spencer Matthews's brother. Yes. That's like if I don't even know what the... That would be like if Malia Obama ended up marrying like, I don't know, Krista Sutter's brother or something like that. Like something really, but way trashier. That's not even a good example.

That would be like too high class. Isn't that be amazing? Isn't that be really? Somewhere right now Trista's listening to this. It's really weird. No, I would say that that's like their higher class in the Matthews family. The British Bachelor was too trashy for me. It was too much like Jordy Shore.

It is fascinating. We had this big like retreats with all the international bachelor people. And hearing about how different it is in different ways. Like in Japan. it's like the fantasy sweet is like we're going to hold hands tonight. Oh, God. Like it's very, the dates are all like really weird. Like it is all, that's, I think the one that's the most culturally, like, where they actually have to take in, take the culture into account.

But like Australia has this thing where they give out the white rose and the black rose. So it's interesting. They all put their little tweaks on it. At the ringer, there's a lot of interest in the Canadian Bachelor. Yeah, Canadian Bachelor. Sure, that's one that, I keep wondering if that's when we should run and like off cycle. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like, why not like in October or something?

Yeah, exactly, just to get you through. What's the 8 o'clock show on the schedule in October? On Mondays. On Mondays. Dancing with the Stars. Oh, one of your shows too. Yeah, thank you. Sorry.

Exactly. I guess we can't bump that. That's right, exactly. No. Is that two nights, though? Is that always? It's Monday nights, just one night. Got it.

Okay. Let's talk about The Bachelor. Yes. Let's just talk about Paradise. It's the biggest story of the last few months. We'll start with the meaty story. Yes, Paris. So, yesterday TMZ broke down how it's going to be addressed in the show.

Question number one. Who feeds TMZ their information? That I am trying to find out. I think we're going to have to offer a bounty for anyone who could figure out who this is. As a producer, as the... I want this to be like Mel Gibson and Ransom. It's a great movie. Turning this on you.

Anyone who can give me information on who is feeding TMZ dead or alive, I don't care. Those aren't planted stories? Oh, God, no. No. So what TMZ report is that Chris Harrison At the beginning I actually didn't see this. Wow. So TMZ is now doing a story on Chris Harrison.

No, well this is what it was. At the beginning of it said that... I think we now know who the leak is. It said when filming resumed, Chris Harrison brought all of the contestants to the site of where the Corinne and DiMario incident occurred, explained to them what happened, told them it blew up into a scandal

and asked them if they wanted to leave, and then everyone opted to stay. That's what TMZ reported. Well, I know Chris Harrison spoke to everyone. I didn't realize that the gathering was at the pool side. At the pool side, yes, exactly. Chris Harrison staged the jacuzzi. He got it all fine, ready to go.

It's very, yeah. It's very grimy. So as a producer, you don't support that? Support. Timsy. Yeah. No, you want to be able to control the information. It would be very easy to do it, but to have this stuff come out like before.

I mean, there were some stuff on TeamZ where I'm like, wait, is that true? And then you kind of, it's like, yes, it is. What was the thing that you were like, is that true? Well, not even, like things about how the new, the drink minimum and the consensual stuff, like that was like five people knew about that. Is that true? How it is, it is true that there are, yes, there are new. Two drinks per hour. I just want to say at the end of three hours, I would be close to blackout.

Absolutely. It's not, it's basically, it's the same exact thing as it was. I mean, it's responsible, but nobody really does that. Exactly. You'd be blacked out. 100%. Does the network, so I think one thing people don't understand is that ABC doesn't like run production on this show. It's Warner Brothers.

Correct, yes, exactly. We've learned so much about like the TV process through all of this. Seriously. So what's it like on the network side to find out production is shutting down? Like who calls you? What's your reaction? Do you have to tell someone else? Like what happens?

Yeah, it starts at the producers called me and said we had something that happened. We need to look into it. I mean, they acted so incredibly responsibly, which was, look, somebody is leveling this accusation. We've got to look into it, do our due diligence. So they did that, and they call me. And then, yes, and then I call. Bob Eager? Like, who do you call?

No, I don't think. It doesn't necessarily go that eye. I called Channing, Dungy, who's the president of ABC. Right. Again, as level-headed a person is over me, she said, okay. People speak very highly of her. Oh, she is the greatest. But also just really, which, you know, it's.

It's starting to say this is a bit of a rarity in that role, but, you know, really somebody who has a lot of common sense. Sure. So just was, okay, you know, let's, we're doing the right thing. Let's look into it. And then we'll take it from there. So is ABC involved in Warner Brothers investigation? No. The production does it.

So you're right. So Warner Brothers is the production. But, I mean, we were sort of there, you know, obviously in constant contact doing everything. But, yeah. I mean, did I expect it to go to the level it went? No, absolutely not. And you mean by like the level of attention? No, where we were, I don't think we necessarily thought we would be sending cast home.

But I think it was such a, something that was going to take so much, so time intensive that that's what happened. And that's when it really got, you know, sort of everybody knew something was going on, obviously, because the cast, it's Instagramming. Yeah. You know, from wherever the Houston airport or wherever they were. Yeah. And an LA Times reporter and then reality, Steve, we're on it like really quickly. Oh. on a Sunday afternoon.

It was amazing. I'm like, wait, is that true? Oh, yes, it is. I need to. That's so wild. It was crazy. That's really wild. Did you think filming would resume?

Or did you think that was just the end of the season? I thought it was important for us to. I mean, we were, like, we've got to, we've got to get this back up. You know, God forbid, you know, something horrible happened, which you don't. And again, it was great. They acted so responsibly. But it was like, if it is what it. what it certainly looks like, which is something we need to look into, but, you know, it's

nothing happened. We need to get back into production. Interesting. Because otherwise, it's going to give you, it's going to, you could say anything happened then. Clearly something happened. Wouldn't something have happened if, you know. Sure.

If you don't go back. I mean, it would have legitimately been, they had to move heaven and earth to get back. And I cannot say enough about the producers. I'm actually shocked that logistically it was able to work out. I am too. I don't know how they did it. I mean, and thank you to the good people of Sayulita. for giving us an extension on the house.

That was important. Was there sort of like these are the things that need to happen for us to resume production? Not in terms of the logistics, but like in terms of feeling comfortable that there was not any kind of sexual misconduct and there wasn't like a crime committed. Because it just got really sore. I mean, it was very complicated. Yeah, it was very common. It definitely was like, well, let's play this out as if, you know, to make sure that even the accusation. of this will never ever happen again.

Right. So it was just, I mean, like I said, it could not have been done more responsibly. I mean, the thing that's interesting, though, is like, again, this is just taking precautions. It's not like anything. And it was always, you know,

there were so many people who are quick to say, well, this is, you know, this has just been a long time coming. This is going to happen. You think it's really not what this show is about. I mean, I think Mike Flais put it perfectly. It's like the bachelor's PG, The Bachelor's PG-B.

It's not like, you know. If it could be R, would you like it to be R? I'm serious. It's a serious question. I don't ask me that question. I don't know. I mean, it's not that the moments that you remember, the best moments in paradise are actually the ones like Kirk and Carly breaking up and Jade like running to her and telling Kirk to don't take one more step, like go away. And then Carly and Evan proposing or Jade and Tanner getting together. She's pregnant now. She's pregnant and they're having a girl. Oh, how lovely.

They're in Hawaii now and their baby bonus. Oh, that's nice. Isn't it nice? Yes. Paris has show that had babies, it's had marriages, it's had. It really is about that second chance of love. And yes, there's, I mean, if anything, it's just that it's goofier than Paris. But it's not like, oh, my God, everybody, go get drunk. I think the biggest difference is that the alcohol is acknowledged.

Because on the bachelor, it's obviously there. Sometimes we do. Certainly the first night. Yeah. But it's not like a plot point. But it's the closest to, but it's the closest, it is a plot point on the first night. And then after that, they're all outside on dates. So there's just not the, this is.

basically just night one of the bachelor every night. They're all in basically a house. And you have some of the dates that go outside. But that's why I think it's more, you know, of a plot point. Sure. Because I think that's the biggest difference. Because like with the Carly and Evan staff, like, or Carly and Kirk when he broke up with her, I always like I was assumed that like when you wake up and you're hungover, everything feels so much worse. So I don't know if they had been drinking night before or whatever, but I just assume, I just assume that not only was she getting dumped on television, but. I don't know. Only was she getting dumped on television, but she also probably was just feeling awful. Oh, yeah, exactly.

Like, dehydrated. And so I just think that's, as a viewer, that's the biggest difference where it seems like the kind of the, it was bound to happen. A narrative comes from the fact that there's like more of an, there's, it's a show about partying. Yeah, that's right. So, you know. But it is, but relationships do form and they do. I was thinking about the Carly and Evan thing. I was like, actually, this makes sense.

Like they're two. I understand why it worked out. Also, it's a lot like... Oh, it's perfect. It's a lot like online dating. The reason there's, I think, a high percentage relatively is because the people enter like a kind of like an unspoken contract of like, yes, we're doing this because we're both looking for the same thing right now.

So I think that kind of explains why there are couples that work out even if it's not like from the show they're on. It's because like same mindset, looking for a relationship, similar experience. When everyone will say, too, when you go on The Bachelor, you spend every waking moment thinking about like you don't have you don't have your phone you don't have really you don't know what's going on in the outside world yeah I don't even know what we told the people

when the election happened I assume we told them Trump won you know I asked me about that oh what do you say because I was so curious he said he found out from watching local news in Finland to wherever he was my god from like I would have loved to see what that news before was like me too I was like if you also if you guys have that footage like put that in a time capsule oh my god absolutely that's interesting that was actually my biggest question

during his season because it's so weird that he was like they were in isolation against like this crazy bad job. Right, exactly. All this stuff is happening. So you're there and you're literally thinking about, okay, who might, not even yourself with Nick, you are thinking about that, but also what about me? Like what am I looking for? Like you do the most self-reflection you would ever do. Totally. So by the time you get to paradise, it's like, okay, I know, I know what I want, I know what it. I mean, Evan actually wrote a very insightful piece for The Hunter Report. Oh, I didn't read it. Oh, you didn't read it? Oh, I did actually.

Please bring Bachelor in Paradise back. It's a show, you know, basically like, think of all these couples of babies. It won't happen if you don't have a Patrick in Paradise. There were a few notable people really defending it. Like, I remember Ashley I saying she actually never really drank that much when she was on my pod. Lucy, the Free Spirit, said that she only had, like, one drink on her birthday. No, it was interesting the ones that were like, there's no way anything could have happened. Like, that's not what happens on the show.

And then the other ones who were also very quick to say, like, well, you know, this never happened. Like Claire was like, oh, the worst thing never happened was I ever talked, you know, I had a crazy conversation with a raccoon. Sure. You know, instead of saying, I can't imagine this would have happened, like nothing like that happens on this show.

Right. I think the thing with Claire, why she's like actually not a good sort of like defender, is because she seems like she was manipulated. Like, obviously she didn't talk to a cartoon. So, it's sort of, that. Or a raccoon. Oh, sorry. Sorry, a raccoon. By the way, that's a great idea. I'm

bookmarking that, though, for next season. We bring a cartoon in. I just, yeah. What are the Harlem Globetrotters doing here? That would be funny. I don't understand. But anyway, she seems like sort of like a quote-unquote victim of the show where she's made to look dumber than she is or whatever. That's right.

So you could see where then, like, maybe that would happen to someone else where they were kind of like not being in their right mind and being twin. Well, there was another one too who gave a, you know, I guess I shouldn't name names, but you can look up her interview with Fulcher. And it was, it was a very bitter, bitter interview. How horrible it was. I must have read that. I don't remember who it was. Okay. She was

I think got broken up with Graham in season one. Got broken up with my Graham in season one. I don't remember, but I... You could find it. Anyway. So you said you and Mike Fleiss really wanted to come back. Was there anyone who was like, no, we cannot bring this show back? No, I think everybody, it was, let's do the investigation and make sure.

And then once everybody knew that, okay, the investigation, you know, happened, we've looked at these, we're, you know, we feel. confident that these allegations were fairly baseless. Yeah. Or actually baseless, not even fairly baseless. Then it was, okay, how do we bring this back? Sure, sure. So that was the, you know, that was really the thing. Last time you were here,

we talked about Corinne a lot, and I asked, I was like, you feel like there's sort of like a new level of, like, raunchiness, because I think with Nick season there kind of was. Yeah, I think there was, too. I think that also, though, felt, though, it wasn't necessarily brought on by Corinne, but more Nick. Like, Nick was the first one that ever acknowledged

relations. Yeah, he actually said that last week. He was like kind of the first, he kind of changed the show by having sex with Caitlin. I mean. He's like, I changed the show. Nick is a friend, you know? It's okay. Exactly. Don't hate the player, hate the Nick. It does seem like the show is more popular than ever, so it seemed like the worst time possible for a scandal. Were you aware of the way? Did you feel that? Like this is bad timing?

I don't know that there's ever good timing, but it definitely, yeah, I don't think it was it was great. I don't think it felt like the momentum stuff, but it was like, oh my God, like how could something like this possibly even be possible? Sure. Yeah.

But I don't know. Again, it was such a, it felt like a thing that really was kind of baseless. So it just was sort of puzzling more than anything else. I think that was the other thing too where it was just make sure,

it's so important to get back because you can't, you know, give any credence that anything like this would have. Right. That is interesting. On a different note, also a slight scandal with Lee, the season on The Bachelor, who I hate Lee. And I don't know if that. I love that.

You like that's like a controversial opinion. No, it's not. I know this isn't popular, but I hate Lee. It's not controversial. Do you like him? I mean, as a viewer. No, no, absolutely. I think he's, you know, I mean, obviously you saw how, I think if anything, maybe we focus

too much on Lee and the Kenyon Lee thing. and got away from the romance. Totally. Like watching last night's episode and being like, who were Adam and Alex? So I was even there in Matt and Adam? Matt and Adam.

Exactly. Alex was the big guy, yes, exactly. But I could see, yeah, that's totally the right mistake to me. I thought that Matt, is the one with the darker hair? Matt was the one was slightly balding. Why I was receding hair line too, so I can say it. Yeah, exactly.

And I can say it too. I mean, it's fine. He seemed like he didn't get to be on Jersey Shore. And so like seven years later he ended up on The Bachelorhead. Exactly. But I was just like, who is this guy? And to see Rachel crying over sending home someone who's never been in the show. It was a very bizarre thing that she said this whole thing of like, you know, you're in a different.

But if we were on the show, it would be different. And you were sort of like this, the, you know, you and I are so similar. So that was kind of weird because it was like, well, where did that come from? We didn't see any of that. Yeah, it was really weird. I think we probably made, you know, we played up some of the other dramatic stuff too much that I think in hindsight now. Sure. Maybe we should have downplayed that a little bit.

Although, I mean, I can tell you that Kenny, when he went back, the brow beating of Kenny to Lee was like 25 minutes. I mean, he just went, just, yeah. Oh, it was long. I mean, we cut it down to whatever, two minutes or whatever. Well, Lee just seemed like just completely detestable. When did you find out about his anti-Black Lives Matter and like anti-feminist tweets? Well, nobody, I mean, it's like, look, obviously I think now we will look up. up every contestant. Although I don't even know. When did he make those comments? It feels like

they were like years. Like last summer? Okay. So that's a year. I mean, I guess we, you know, look, we'll look at everything and see it. And I think there needs to be a time where it's like, okay, we need to go back however long it was. I mean, it's all different now. I mean, social media didn't even exist even like, whatever it was, five or six years ago. I know. It is really different. Like, even when Nick was here last week. But of course, like, we never did it. And you get to remember there's, by the time that, you know, you get to whatever it was 30, and then you have a couple of options. So you're talking about 32 people.

Yeah. And, you know, yes, we should start looking at all that. But you just don't think, okay, we're going to go and look at all 32 guys social media for the past five years. Yeah, totally. That's what you got to hire an army of Redditors because people on Reddit are good at that. Is that what it is? Okay, good. I think it's people on Reddit.

There's also this thing called Mechanical Turk, which is like you can hire people for like whatever. It's just kind of stuff. Yeah. Let me know if I can help. You're going to get a special thanks credits. Great. I can't wait. And we actually run real credits.

I'm like, because we're grandfathered in because the show is so old. That's why we do that thing at the end with the little, the blooper and everything. Yeah. Are other shows not allowed to do real credits? They do, you know, like a squeeze credit where you see the credit and then you see a promo for what's on next week. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Oh.

So that went into effect. Yeah. But it went into effect the Bachelor because the Bachelor's so old. The two oldest shows on ABC right now, I think, are America's on videos on The Bachelor. Number Three has got to be Grey's. I think Gray's is probably number three. two of three. So, shout out to me. I love grace.

AFV and the Bachelor. Yeah. Okay. I was never really into AFD, but I did like the occasional Bob Sagan. Because you laugh so much. Me? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I just.

Here's the billion dollar idea, by the way, not to get off tangent with Bob Sagan. Because, you know, Bob Sagan has that, you know, blue sense. I've always said, like, they need to do. Blue is an understatement based on what I've heard. They need to do, like, America's Dirtiest Home videos where people send in, like, and Bob, Bob Sagan does that voiceover for that? What's the, that's a funny idea? Wouldn't it be funny?

Yes, it's hilarious. What is like the net, like, what's like ABC's Bravo? Like NBC has Bravo. What does ABC have? We don't really have that. It's like free form. We don't have the NBC has all the, which show? This Bob site, blue.

No, no, no, that would have to be on like showtime or something like that, exactly. Or maybe it's online only. Like, log in with your birthday. Yeah, exactly. For 18 and over. Let's get back to the Lee stuff, though. So were the producers like aware during filming of like how? how racially charged.

No, I don't think it was, again, I feel bad that it got, you know, that sort of got the lion's share of attention from it. But it wasn't like, oh, this is really good. Like, let's, you know. It is, like, a really a bummer because I can't think of another, like, racial plot line. And also, there's never been a black bachelor or bachelor ever before. Right, exactly. So it's just been such a, like, uncomfortable experience in some ways.

It was. Have you gotten this feedback a lot? Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that we've definitely seen that. And I think, like, last night was the most positive I've seen since the very beginning because I think it finally felt like it focused back on the romance. Yeah. It was back in, like, the fantasy world.

And you never know. I mean, the beauty of this show is that it does have such a rabid following. And, you know, now with social media, you can hear from it. I mean, the fans are the ones that really produced the show. Right. So you hear that. And it's like, okay, we clearly made a mistake here. You know, we'll course correct.

And, you know, don't play into that. Interesting. That's, like, cool to hear, actually. Because it wasn't like, you know, what's interesting is this is going way back. Do you watch Allie season, right? Whose? Allie? Yeah, it's like my favorite.

Like the two-on-one where it was, you know, Casey and Ray and R. And Casey, you know, who also was sort of a nut and he was crazy. But he was always like, I'm here to guard and protect her heart. Like he was there for Allie. I just want to say for a backstory for people who didn't watch that. That two-on-one was with Casey who got an insane tattoo in the middle of the season. That was amazing. He got a tattoo that's a garden protector heart, which is like his personal catchphrase.

and Justin rated R. Riego, who was like a Canadian wannabe wrestler. Yes. And like those kinds of guys, do they exist anymore for this show? Because we don't have that. This season. I feel like we've had some of that because I've actually compared this season the closest to Allies, I think, that we've seen. In what sense? Well, just like the guys are all very different.

Like Allie had very different taste. I mean, some of them are, you know, somebody like, you know, some of them are into like the jock. Sure. that's sort of it. She's clearly not based on her husband and her real winner, Frank. Allie? Yeah. Have we ever talked about that?

I think Frank could have been. If Frank hadn't taken himself out, I think he would have. They probably would have been married. He would have been married, yeah. Who knows what would have been? Roberto might have been The Bachelor? Like the sliding doors of what might have happened in vaccination. Her husband looks a lot like Frank.

He totally does. That's clearly her type. Yes, I know. Exactly. Very similar. Yeah. I was really into Frank. I wish she had won and not taking himself out.

However, Frank is one of those guys that I wish we had, like, Bachelor in Paradise. Back then. Back then. Yeah. And I think we still bring him. I know the producers still talk to him. I would definitely bring Frank back in the fall. Get him in Paradise.

He'd be amazing. Totally. How old is he now? I don't know. Bachelor of years is probably like 108, but he's probably like 32 or something. Do you feel like people age out of The Bachelor? Like, it's 42 old. I think you do.

I think you age out. Like, it is that weird thing where I think you look at yourself like Chris Vikowski where he's like, I'm retiring. Right. Like you have to. I think Nick is really. retired from the bachelor world. Where is there to go for Nick?

I don't know. I just think he's, I was trying to convince him to go on Survivor. He didn't seem into it. He'd be great on that. Do you think they'd put him on? Maybe. Hmm. They put Jimmy Johnson on.

I know, but that's Jimmy Johnson. This is Nick. Coach Jimmy is one of the greatest contestants in Survivor history. Oh, he was great. Him and Lisa Welchell. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, exactly. Oh, I forgot about her.

Survivor, they need to do a Survivor season where it is like just weird pop culture, like, footnotes. That would be awesome. I've always wanted to do retired. I wanted them to do retired out. athletes. The challenge kind of did that. But like legit ones. Like, let's get Kobe on the island. Oh, God. Could you imagine? He would definitely. No, no. Here's the ultimate, any reality show, but probably survive by the best, Jordan. Michael Jordan. Yes. The most, like, cutthroat, it doesn't matter what game you're playing. Can we just get Michael and Kobe on a desert island,

film it? There'd be nothing better. That's a... Who do you think would win? Michael. I think Michael will stop at nothing until he wins. He's the terminator of just life. You don't think the age would be an advantage? Have you ever heard about him playing cards? Of course. I don't think he cares. Playing for keeps is on my favorite books. How do we get Michael and Charles Oakley against really anybody?

I don't care who. I once saw them at a party together, Michael and Charles Oakley. It was one of the greatest moments of my life. Yeah. And what just wanted an incredible one-two duo. Like, it's just amazing. One thing for The Bachelor might want to consider is having like a hype person be there for the lead. I think that's interesting.

Do you remember they sort of did that for a little bit, Jesse Palmer? Yeah. Remember he had the ring. her in the house. Sure. And Brad Wilmack had a therapist. The therapist was the drummer for Go West. But seriously, like, it almost, it was interesting when Rachel was really upset and she

was like, you don't know what it's like to be in this position. And she was, she didn't, it felt like kind of like code of language for being, like, you know, like, you don't know what's like the first black bachelor's. She's talking to her producer. And that was a genuinely fascinating moment. And that was, it seemed like the kind of like. She's given us a lot of really good fascinating moments. Yeah.

Like, it's always real with her. Special person. Yeah. Like I thought the scene that was so great when Kenny gets out of the helicopter and she's like, what the hell? Yeah. Like you've won the road. Like, really? Like you need to.

I mean, to me, she probably should have just left him there at that point, although I love Kenny. Yeah, I like him too. But at that point, you should say, why don't you just, you clearly are more interested in him. Yeah. Stay there. I think the Lee plot was such a bummer and people didn't like it because Rachel's so awesome. Yeah, exactly. That it was like a distraction from her.

And it was also, she clearly didn't know because you've seen her now. on Twitter be like, oh my God, like, how did that guy make it? I'm sure she's, you know, irritated that she wasn't informed. I don't think anybody knew, but. It's funny. It's like she, yeah, I don't even, I kind of like get why she's on the show and why she has a hard time dating because she's awesome. She is.

So amazing, yes, exactly. But you can just tell us that, like, so many of these guys are just not on her level. It's not even just about being educated. It's just like, or as smart, but she's like a thoughtful, three-dimensional person. You know, it's interesting. I think you know this. like we start filming Bachelorette right after Bachelor ends so it's much a bachelor you have much more lead time. Right. So you have even just with casting from announcement to then and it was hard. I mean I think that I think look I think actually these guys are great. I thought it was a great cast but I think with more time too you wonder yeah.

Like do you different different casting or whatever. What do you have had because you're right it's like she really is such a diamond. Yeah. She's truly dynamic. It's interesting. It's interesting. You know about the whole thing she dated Kevin Durant too. Okay. Is that real? It is real. So can you tell me? I heard that she had told Nick but it got cut out or something like that and it wasn't aired.

I don't know if it did. It certainly might have. What does that mean she dated Kevin Durant? They dated and then she went to law school and it was like, okay, clearly this is not going to work long. Oh, I didn't know that. On the Bill Simmons podcast, it came up right after he won the championship. And he was like, what is that? You know, she was at the championship.

Yeah, I know. He tried to, he basically, we can go back and check the tape, but he was. He was like, what is that? Like, yeah, I don't even know her. He basically denied it. Oh, I didn't know that. Wow. Yeah.

But you're telling me it's real. Oh, yes. We need to get him to after the final rose. Are there receipts? I'm sure that. I don't know. I'm sure there are. You can get him to after the final rose.

He's in L.A. He's spending the summer here. Can you imagine? That would be incredible. We don't talk at all about what happened this before. All right. We got to settle this once and for all. That would be incredible.

K.D., Rachel? I don't know. I think it seems possible. Chris Harrison grilling both of them? Oh my God. It might be amazing. Chris Harrison. Is he pissed about his screen time this season or what?

It got made up for 10-fold in Bachelor in Paradise, believe me. He's fine. He's happy. Oh, I get to do a talk with the cast. I guess you're doing everything again. Oh, no, he's very happy. He also is the bridge in Bachelor and Paradise between the shutdown and the start-back. Sure, of course.

So he has to say, you know. He does also welcome everyone to Paradise. He does, yes, exactly. He welcomes and he has to welcome back. So it's like, trust me, he got plenty of time. I want to go back to my idea here, my hype person. Like a, you know, like someone gets to just bring like their sister, their brother, their best friend to be like, to like for some check-ins. I love this idea. Just for some check-ins because you could get like an authentic release.

Authentic conversation. I tell you where this was a missed opportunity was Nick with Bella. Oh, God. Totally. Because she was totally like Chloe Grace Moretz and 500 days of summer. Like that's what it would have been. It would have been huge. And like, you know, maybe it's before they leave L.A. Maybe they're just there for the LA portion, and it's sort of like their hair. There's only like three episodes, though.

Then, well, I guess you have them there in person and then you do like phone or Skype check-ins. Because clearly once it gets more serious, it's when you need that person more than ever. It's sort of like a way to take like the producer conversations and make them like on camera basically and try to get like something a little bit real. Or do we just get Charles Oakley? Designated hype man. Sure. Or just Charles Oakley. This is your person, Charles Oakley.

That could be a great idea. It would be amazing. What are you guys thinking for Bachelor? I have a guess. Obviously, I can't say anything. Okay, so if we go from this season, just taking everybody. Only one option, it's Peter. Well, I was going to say, I've never heard more, you know, people say Peter has to be the Bachelor.

Like, the guy's still in it. I dislike Brian. I hate him after this week. I just want to beg you to not make him The Bachelor. I don't know if he wins. I don't know what happens. I just beg you. Here's what's interesting.

I mean, clearly people are in love with Peter for whatever reason. hot. They almost want her not to pick him. This is what people have played Peter. I know exactly why. I was shocked to find out he's a trainer, like shocked when I went to his Instagram. And also because he's listed as business owner. Yes, exactly. And it's because he's attainable hot. He's not attainable

for most people. Right, exactly. But he seems like he's also not, he's not like Dean. He seems attainable. And that's what I think Dean's unattainable? Dean is definitely, yeah. I'm not into Dean, but I know that he's unattainable because people keep comparing him to Chandler Parsons. and that's like an unattainable kind of look.

Yeah, but that's Chandler-Parsons, Dean, completely different. I mean, Chandler, like, three or four years ago before he was... Even then, he was like... And he's always been very handsome. That's why I became a fan. Right, exactly. Of course. But he's also a pro ball player.

Yeah, but Dean... What is Dean? Dean, I have no idea. He's way too young this week. What a bad week for Dean. I can't believe he's making it to the final four. I think Dean, you could see Dean. Dean's like, how do I blow this?

So I don't have to go home. It's pretty... That hometown is, like, nothing you've ever seen before. I'm excited then. Oh, it's, it's, yeah. Is it just weird? It's emotional. It's incredibly emotional.

Oh. Because his family abandoned him. I feel really bad. Well, it's just hard. I mean, I actually had a parent die young, too, like right around the same, a little bit younger than Dean, but it was my dad. And it is actually, you hate to say it's, but if one parent's going to die, it's better for it to be the dad. Uh-huh. Not because your mom really is the glue who takes everything and does all that.

And I think that's clearly what happened here. And it is. It's really emotional. But also, you saw like the dad's a yogi now. Yeah. It's really something else, I have to tell you. So just quickly to go on Bachelor, I'm stunned. You have not done some sort of writing campaign for Ben Higgins 2.0.

Oh, interesting. I can't believe you haven't thought. That's why when I told you, I was not throwing a curveball at you. It didn't even occur to me. But I'm curious why you haven't said anything about that. I'm not saying, of all people, like you're the ones. One thing that happened is that I'm going to meet these people. They morph from being, like, funny TV characters to real humans.

I know, exactly. So that it's hard for me to be like, yes, Ben, do it again. But of all the bachelors, you know Ben better than anyone, I think. Thank you. Don't you think? Yeah. He's like genuinely. Honestly, you can't do any more with Nick because you don't want Nick to then supersede that.

I know. Nick won't let me forget that I love Ben. Every time I see him, he's like, and your boy, Ben. But what would you think about that? I'm just, I'm asking you specifically. It's not even like a thing. I like it. I don't know if Ben would agree to it.

No, I don't know. I mean, literally, the only reason I'm asking you is because you're such a Ben. Yeah, exactly. Yes, we have a framed photo of Ben here on the lot. I got it as a present. I didn't ask for, but I'm happy to have it. I like that idea. The thing about Ben is I feel like he would actually be good because he's someone who, like, takes lessons

and, like, tries to, like, change his behavior and, like, become a better person all the time. So I think he would be different in round two. Right. Similar to how Brad was different in round two. But Brad was such an – well, it's interesting. And Brad was such an interesting story because he picked nobody. Right. But what's interesting about Ben is he told both girls, I love you.

Yeah. I also. Do you think Ben ever regrets, like, not picking Jojo? Probably. I think everyone who's been with, I just feel like Jojo probably has a lot of guys who regret not making it work with her. I totally agree. She just seems fun. She's really hot.

She seems like very self-assured. Awesome, yeah. Like, I can definitely see her as a heartbreaker. Yes, exactly. That said, I think she's great with Jordan. I believe in their relationship. Oh, totally. It seems real.

Oh, it absolutely is. And I'm excited for them. I'm dying to get Jordan on this podcast. I just can't get in touch with them. I'm dying for it. I wonder if he'll beat the Espies. Oh, interesting. Maybe.

I got to corner him if so. I know, exactly. Anyway, Ben 2.0 is fascinating. I like that. I will say I would prefer that to Peter. Interesting. I think it might be a little dull. Well, we've got to see what happens with Peter.

I mean, everyone's just assuming that this is happening, only because they seem to really like him, Not, you know. My biggest, no, I can't take my biggest complaint. I was very dismayedly beyond the show. But my second biggest complaint is the sound of Brian kissing. I cannot endure 10 episodes of Brian making out. That was the loudest.

We played a clip from that on the EW show today. And it was like you hear this orchestra playing and you hear this smacking. Like that grounds out the orchestra. He looks like like a marine animal of some kind, like sucking in his food. when he gets out. When he gets the watch last night, he's so excited, and he just kind of like, almost like mounts her to make out. I was like, what is happening?

Had he gotten going to church date? I don't know maybe that he would have done that. God, you brought that up. We'll come back to that one second. But also, when he was like, did you go to private school? Did you wear a uniform? What it looked like? I was just like gross.

Like, come on, man. Was that Brian or Peter? That was Brian. That was Brian. I really, he can't be the bachelor, just telling you. He can't. Okay. It won't.

It won't work. He's too. And we haven't, okay, so we've talked about basically the other three. What about Eric? I like Eric a lot. I love Eric too, but as The Bachelor, I think it would be, he'd be so insecure. Yeah, I think he's. That could be an interesting.

Eric has a lot of layers to him, I feel like. That would be interesting, though, an insecure Bachelor? I kind of like that. Well, wasn't that Ben Higgins sort of, the I'm unlovable? I never bought that. I just think Ben's problems. That was like his gimmick. You know, like in singles where he's,

I forget what is, but Kira Cedric's like, I think your gimmick is not having a gimmick, and that's the gimmick you. And Ben was like, it was like, I think that saying you're unlovable is your gimmick. Ben's problem in like his thing is he's the people pleaser. And that's why he's such a nice guy. He is, he wants everyone to be happy,

doesn't want to let anyone down. He is the proverbial frog that gets in the water, and it slowly starts, and all of a sudden it's boiling. Yeah. Because he couldn't, yeah. Yeah, but like he's not unlovable. He's just like, he wants to be love. He wants everyone to be happy.

Right, exactly. It gets in his own way. Yeah. But he's certainly not unlovable. No, not at all. It's ridiculous. No. Hey, I'm with you.

Do you guys have a problem with former contestants, like choosing people or choosing us to be, like, their mouthpiece? Like, Lauren clearly has given the people several interviews. I don't know. It's like, what can you do? I mean, it's just, the world is so different now. It's just you sort of throw your hands up and say there's only so much you can do. Right. It's so interesting.

There's like a whole cottage industry that I'm obviously a part of around the bachelor. Yeah, it is. It's fascinating. By the way, it's certainly better than when I started working the show, which was Lorenzo season. Wow. You couldn't, like, nobody cared. I don't think the penny saver wouldn't do an interview with the bachelor.

That's a deep L.A. pull, the penny saver. Exactly. It's funny when Us Weekly was sold a couple months ago this point. Yeah, to the company that owns National Enquirer. Oh, that's what it was, yeah. They may own Star as well, but they don't think so. I don't know. Star National Empire would be.

They own Radar and the National Enquirer. Oh, they do? Okay, wow. And now us. And one of the kind of like a lot, there's a lot of history of us weekly happening. And kind of a big pivot point for them was when The Bachelor ended up being like cover stories and like when they kind of got on board of The Bachelor. Really? That's so interesting. And I forgot what season it was.

It's Jake Pavelka's season. Jake, right. I mean, I remember we, first of all, I remember that so much like it was yesterday because it was the first cover they did, it was like shocking seekers of the final four. And at first it was really scary because it was like this was the first time you started seeing things. on their past because it was like Vienna. It was something about some guy she dated and when she worked at Hooters and they're like, none of this is true except for the working at Hooters part.

That's it. It's all a fabrication. So I remember, and it was all like worried and then you've come to find out like, no, it's actually good for the show. Right. The worst thing, really with any reality show is apathy. Like you want some sort of feeling,

whether you love it or hate it. And with Bachelor, that's even like amplified. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I just saw that last night the show had the best ratings in its time slat, 18 to 34 or whatever. Oh, 18 to 34, this show destroys almost anything else. Oh, women, it's not even close, but even just adults, but it's majority women. Right.

Women are. Although so many guys watch the, you talk to so many guys, like the whole ratings thing always seems completely skewed. Let's go back to Rachel in church. So Rachel went to church with Dean. Yes, exactly. And she also on her hometown brought Nick to church. It's interesting. On many reality shows, I think there's a very large Christian demographic,

certainly true of Survivor. Yes. And I feel like Rachel is maybe one of the most truly religious leads that's been on the show. Yeah. Do you think that's the case? No, I think there's been plenty of, look, how can we forget Sean Lowe, who is incredible Christian. But they didn't go to church, really. They didn't go to church.

You didn't show it, but clearly very religious. I think there's a lot of religious people. Ben is religious. Yeah, there's a lot of them. I think a lot of them are actually. It's interesting, like it's on the show, though. Like, I feel like... No, this is the first time it's been, yeah, it's been played up.

But it's also interesting that, like, church is a leisure activity for Rachel. Yeah, it's almost like anthropological. She's like, I've never been to a Catholic service. Right, exactly. That's right, exactly. Which is, like, another, like, layer to her that makes her interesting. Oh, yeah. No, there is no end to what's, like, really cool about her.

Did you ever consider her father not being able to be on television as, like, a problem? Because he's a federal judge. There's a problem, but obviously, there was so much curiosity. that you wanted to see it. But, I mean, it's like that's not the... It's like a technicality. The most important thing is the lead is good. And the rest will take care of itself.

Yeah, she's just really cool. She's awesome. Like, what could she do next? Like, where should Rachel go from here other than we're trying to be a lawyer? My guess is she's going to... She's going to go back and practice. But I feel like she's somebody that if I was like a, whatever, CNN or court TV or something

and I was looking for a legal animal, even just as somebody when something big is going, she's the person I would go to. She is a very sure. She is, yeah. No, you'd believe her, and that's like a skill. Like that was the thing when Idol sort of was Simon Cowell, where you just believed that this guy was like the preeminent A&R guy. Way to plug Idol for yourself.

Is Simon Cowell coming back? He's not coming back? Oh, damn. Exactly. Does he even own the show anymore? No, he never did. That was the thing. That's why he did X Factor.

Oh, right. Because he owned it. Cyco owns X Factor, which is company. Got it. God. You're so, it's like you work in the industry. It's crazy. I would like to. You have such a shorthand.

Oh, really? Maybe. Sure. Talk to Bill a better trade. I have a lot of reality TV show pitches. I'll tell them to you off air. Excellent. That just reminded me of something else I wanted to circle back on regarding Paradise.

I meant to ask in the beginning. Is it true that producers like script storylines in advance? That was one of the biggest sort of like, is true. No, that was the most bizarre thing I had ever seen. I mean, they are aware of certain, I mean, the kids. Contestants sort of, not script storylines, but it's like, oh, I met this person here. And then I'm also, you know, they say who they're interested in. So there is a certain time when it's like, okay, she's interested in Dean.

So, you know, we'll do that. But then Dean also said he's interested in, you know, whoever, this girl. So then we'll have her come in. I mean, obviously you can see there are certain things that are done. Yeah, it's not completely random. But it's not, no, it's not like, okay, here's what's going to happen. You know. Got it.

Like, we're going to have these two people get together. and then, like, no, it doesn't make any sense. And you wouldn't have these legitimate relationships. Right. And by the way, it's not like Evan, it was like, oh, we're going to have Evan and Carly give me. I mean, she, it took her forever to, like, to feel this guy. She'd seen him on the show. He was kind of a buffoon, you know?

I mean, he was the erectile dysfunction guy. Yeah, that's funny. She looked great at the wedding. Did you go to the wedding? I did not, because it was in the middle of all this stuff. Like, we had no idea. We still didn't know if the show was coming back at that point. I think the wedding would have aired as, like, part of Men Tell All or something.

That was my guess. different. Interesting. Nick went to the wedding. He said it was lovely. He wouldn't say anything else. He was worried about violating an NDA or something like that. So goodbye.

I can't say. Yeah, exactly. Good on him, but what are you going to, I don't know what you're going to say, but okay, that's fine. I love the fact.

I want to get to know more about Evan's sons and Carly. I feel like it's a weird version of like overboard. I think it's cool that we don't know. Like I'm like, good job, Evan. We shouldn't know. Whenever they show discretion, I appreciate it and I applaud it.

That's nice. Yeah. Yeah, I like it from them. So Paradise comes in August, right after the Bachelorette. Paradise comes in August, right after the Bachelorette. You worried about ratings at all? Are you think it'll be helped by the scandal? Well, here's what I find fascinating is that everyone's like,

it's going to be the highest ratings of the summer. I don't actually think that's the case. I think it's going to do exactly what it does. If you never watched Paradise before, I don't think this is going to catch you to watch. Yeah. I think people who like the show are like, I'm happy it's back coming back. That was the most important thing. Like, it means a lot.

I mean, honestly, I mean, honestly, these shows mean a lot to people. I remember when we had Bachelor Pat on, and something I forget, again, Twitter is so great, because you're going to actually, and somebody had mentioned, like, their friend who was dying of breast cancer, and we flew her out to, like, the big finale.

Remember we used to the big finale? Yeah, of course. And it ended up, like, and the cast was, like, amazing to, you know, it was great. Like, they all, they went out, and they took pictures. I think she went to the finale party, and they hung out with her.

And then she died, like, you know, a month later, and this was, like, the last good, they told us, like, this was her last great day, and it was, you know, which is, you know, the Bachelor Pad finale is your last great day. But it is nice that it means. That's something. It meant something.

It's a lot. So it was great to have it back. People do care about it. I mean, Ashton Coucher went crazy. Oh my God. I loved them. They were amazing. They were so great about that because you can always tell where it's like, you know,

it's like Ice Cube and Kevin Hart, who haven't have ride along too coming out next week. Right. You know, this was so much better because it was like. it was like you just felt like they weren't plugging anything. He could have plugged the ranch by the way. I know he could have. And she could have plugged Bad Mom's Christmas, but nothing. I love them.

They're great. They're so great movie. Oh, God, so good. Just one of the best. I'm really excited about Winter Games because I don't like the Winter Olympics, so this is better to me. Winter Games is going to be great. What is it?

Do you know yet? Do you tell me? Here's my pitch. When Caitlin didn't have hometowns and they went to that weird resort, you guys should go back there in like Utah or something. Wait, that was in Ireland Colorado, no, it was in the U.S. It was like in Colorado.

Oh, right, yes, that's right, that's right, right. No, we're working on our tradeout now. Oh, cool. It will not be there, but it will be in the continental United States. Okay, cool. It should just be like, um, here's one of the angles. That's exactly right.

And they have to do like weird, not like actual skiing, but like sort of a version of like the challenge, but in cold weather. Yes, there'll be several nods to Hot Dog the movie. You probably haven't even seen it. I've never seen that. Trust me. It's great. Watch it before so you can do your research. There is going to, to be a, we're hoping, because it's funny

to have a time about it all the international bad, like it's sort of a USA versus the international bachelor angle, which will be fun. And yeah, and then we're figuring out, but obviously, yeah, there'll be, you know, some silly challenges similar to Bachelor Pat. You got to get the married couples or, like, people who are like considered successes to work at the resort

or something like that. Well, you know who reached out when we did it and we were just talking on Twitter, but Jojo was like, oh my God, like, I would love to have her there. Cool. Yeah, that'd be awesome. I'd be really fun. They seem like fun hangs. Oh, my God, totally. So that sounds great. Yeah.

So I think that'll be a fun. But I'm, that's one of those ones you're nervous because it's like, we can only screw it up because it's such a great. Because you're right. It's like the Winter Olympics or the Boring Olympics. Is there anything that's worthwhile? People like ice skating. Yeah, I guess so. But I don't know the ice skating.

You know, it's like one of those things, it's almost, sometimes it's like men's tennis where if you don't have, you know, whether it is a Connors or McEnroe or Samperus and Agassette. Like, if you don't have those people. And that was sort of like, obviously, Nancy Kerrigan and Tony Harding. I don't know who any of the ice skaters are, and I know you get to know them when they're on, but that was, you know, when you have that or you know all the old ice skaters, I don't know who the new people are. Yeah, it's just not as fun. And also, the timing's going to be tough because it's in Russia or something. You know, it's interesting.

So it's in South Korea. Or North Korea, one of the Koreas. You think North Korea is getting the Olympics? No. I mean, I just, I didn't say it. But I was like, I don't know if it's South Korea or not. It's in Russia after that. Or I guess the World Cup's in Russia.

It was in Sochi. But you know, though, it's going to be basically live. Yeah, I know. It's going to be live. And that's actually not a good thing for the Olympics, because you can't edit it down to the packages. People actually like it where it's like more manipulative. Such a TV producer talking right now. Yeah, exactly.

Because the people I know don't like it. But. No, but they don't know they do until they see it live. And it's like, oh, my God, I've got to sit through all this. And we're in California. Korea is like 16 hours ahead. Right. So the timing is going to be really.

So they're still going to have to edit it. It's still going to be weird. So longky. Because that means. It's like primetime 8 p.m. there is noon here. Come to Bachelor Winter Games. That's really the place to go. Are you going to do it every consecutive night?

That would be tough. I don't know. We're figuring on how we're going to parcel it out. You could do it big brother style. Because don't forget we're going to Bachelor running too. You got to do it live. You should do it like Big Brother in real time. I don't.

I would do that. It would scare the hell out of the producers. So unfortunately. Do you want me to talk to Channing about it? You can, but she'd say, talk to the producers and they'd say, there's no way we can do this. I liked the television show. Summerland, which Channing's sister was on, Merrin. Did you ever watch that? No, but I know, I know she was on that, too.

Jesse McCartney and Zach Affron were also on it, and Lori Loughlin. Wait, Jesse McCarthy and Zach Gaffron? Was this pre-high school musical? Yeah. Holy cow. But this was on like ABC Family, right? When it was that time? Yes.

Wow. It was. That's crazy. I know. It was like a show that'll be lost to time. It'll be like a breaker high kind of thing with like Ryan Gosling, whatever. It sounds like it was sort of R. DeGrasy. Kind of.

I was really into DeGrassey. I had a job in college where no one came in. I was at a bookstore. No one came in. And it was like the early days of YouTube. It was like 2006. And so you could just put anything on there. No happening a problem.

And I just watched all of the Grassey. I was like, who's this Aubrey Graham fellow? I love a wheelchair basketball player. Exactly. I know. Yeah, I loved all that crap. So good. Still love it.

I know. It's great. Do you have any involvement with free form? No, none. I was devastated to find out the Greek reunion wasn't happening. So I can talk to them and see. Send that note along. I see Rusty over here in Hollywood sometimes.

Exactly. That was a great show too. That was a good show. Yes. I saw that Kelsey Grammer's daughter should be, yeah, she should have been a bigger star. She was very good. Yeah, she looks like she could have been a good bachelor. At least that character could have been a good bachelor.

Oh, God. Amazing. Rob, thanks so much for coming. It's always so much fun. Yes, exactly. You'll have to come back again, right? Oh, always. Absolutely.

We'll make this a thing. Excellent. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening. You got it. And thanks to hotel. Tonight and I'll be back next week. As always, thank you for listening and again, thank you to Hotel Tonight.

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