The Press Box - 'Bachelorette Party' — With Nick Viall (Ep. 327)

Episode Date: July 7, 2017

In the absence of a new 'Bachelorette' episode, The Ringer's Juliet Litman is joined by friend and former Bachelor Nick Viall for a free-for-all podcast. They talk about some common misconceptions about 'Bachelor in Paradise', life after reality TV, the Kardashians, NBA players, and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Juliet Litman. No episode this week, which is incredibly freeing because I was able to bring in a wonderful guest, a dear friend, a drinking buddy in the making, currently sipping coffee sitting across from me. Mr. Nick by all. Welcome, Nick. Hello, Channel 33. Hi. The ringer. The ringer. Yeah, all of it. It's confusing, honestly. We got to work on the branding a little bit. We've come a long way. We have come a long way. I first met you like a year ago. Well, even before that, you know. Before that, I called you Norm Cornyk. I didn't know you. Didn't even like me. Didn't even like you. And now I'm texting you to get a drink with me sometimes. You didn't respond, by the way.

I was with my family at my sister's wedding. I was trying to seem cool. I was like, yeah, I'm going to text Nick. He'll come meet us. And then you didn't respond. Don't feel bad. I don't often respond to a lot of people. Really?

I find you to be pretty responsive. My texting etiquette has gotten worse since being on. Because you're your wifeed up? No. No, I can't blame that I'm Vanessa. It's just my bad habit. I just want Vanessa to know that I also invited her on this podcast today. She is in Montreal.

She's out of town. We parted. We parted. We went different paths from Milwaukee. She came to my sister's wedding. So she has her foundation coming up, July 16th, in Montreal. If anyone in Montreal is listening. Will you be going?

I will be going. Cool. So I'll be. But she is going there earlier to kind of help coordinate it and set it up. I think you're going to be there for Jazz Fest. I don't know I'm going to be there for Jazz Fest. I think I'm going to be there during the Just for Laughs Festival. I heard that's a good one.

I heard it's pretty good, too. So hopefully I'll be able to check it out. So even though you used precarious language, you're still together. Huh? You made it sound like for a second that you'd broken out. You're like, we probably ways. I was like, yeah, I shouldn't say it. Like, yeah, that's the annoying part, I will say.

We can touch on that. But no, yeah, we're still together. Cool. How many months? So let's see, you filmed, you proposed around Thanksgiving. So you're like on eight months or so. Only public for like two or three. What is it?

Yeah, why don't call it the public because it was certainly the relationship before that. So I guess, you know, we met in, I don't know, we don't even like have a... You met in September, you proposed in November on the show, and now it's July. So that's about eight or nine months. November, yeah, I don't know, something like that. Well, we're in month seven, and that was month 11, so there you go. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah, eight or nine. Yeah, that's great. Wow. Good for us. Yeah, you guys are doing it. What's the most common thing that you are asked now about either your relationship or being the bachelor? Like, what's, like, the thing that people most want to know? I don't know. I mean, I've, being in this world now for about four years, it's all the same.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It hasn't changed since you've, you're a new level of famous now. It's different. I've noticed that, well, when you first, I don't want to come across. It's okay. Just be you. Just be me. I welcome all types on this podcast. That's like a producer telling you to just have fun with it, you know? Just like, hey, just have fun with it, man. Just do you. Just do you. Do I don't know what? Just be yourself.

Do you? Is from. DJ Polly Del Vuccio of Jersey Shore. That's why I first started saying that. Really? Yeah. I've noticed when I first started getting recognized being on it, you know, it's like, oh, you're the reality TV guy. And it was kind of like this just kind of fun thing, I think, for people to recognize me and be like,

oh, I got a picture with that guy, you know? And I think now I notice people like will get nervous and it'll be shaking or you can tell they want to take a picture, but they don't want to interrupt you. Some people have no shame. So I noticed that, you know, like people react to me differently now. Sure. I think having become a little bit more recognizable or just having been on for so long. Also kind of different crowd who watches Dancing with the Stars.

Sure, yeah. Like, I feel like there's more moms watching Dancing with Stars. I think there's a pretty good overlap. Okay. It skews a little older. Yeah, it does. It does. I think when one time we, we've only hung out once and make it sound like we're best friends.

The one time we hung out, two people stopped usually. to get drinks, or sorry, to get pictures. And one was clearly a Bachelor watcher, and one was clearly a dancing with stars watcher. And there was like an age golf of like 20 years. I don't, see, I don't remember either of that. You don't? No. So the fame doesn't phase you is what you're saying.

I mean, I just kind of, yeah, I don't like remember the faces or. Okay, Mr. Big Time. No, I just, I. Sorry, you walked into that one. Well, I just, I don't know. All right. So what are you doing now? You've got the polished gent.

That's your, like, box. Explain what the polished gent is. The polished gent. It's a men's grooming line. So right now we are focusing on facial products, like anti-aging products and facial lotions. We are coming out with some hair stuff. You know, starting a business is not easy.

And so, you know. Tell me about it. Yeah. But it's fun. It's exciting to kind of, you know, we, We've constantly been on backwater, but we also, you know, from an inventory standpoint, we try not to hold on to too much. But there's a lot of ups and downs.

But overall, it's going great. I mean, the response has been fantastic. And so it's just a new venture that I hope is, you know, run for a while. Who are you doing it with? I have some, you know, a couple of business partners. That's cool. Are they from The Bachelor? No.

Got it. Who's like your best friend from The Bachelor world? I don't know if I have one. Other than Vanessa, obviously. Yes. I hope, I can't wait until that one. I'm always on edge when it comes to stuff like that. I'm not trying to trap you or trick you.

Vanessa is my best friend from Bachelor. Okay. Yeah, I like to keep my circle small. Uh-huh. I like to keep it even smaller in Bachelor World. Okay. I've gotten really, really close with Jared over the years. Heard he's a good guy.

It's a fantastic guy, and I really valued my friendship with Jared. You know, and I would say I've gotten really close to that. She eye, really, Carly and Weld are fantastic people. I would consider your friends. Did you go to Carly's wedding? I did, Carly and Evans. You went to it? Yes.

How was it? It's wonderful. I thought she looked great. Loved her dress. Also, her hair looked really nice. Was it fun? Mm-hmm. I was a little quiet, you know.

Okay. So what was the vibe like being among the production? following this Bachelor in Paradise scandal? It was interesting because the wedding took place. In Mexico. In Mexico, right before they announced everything was cleared. I think they knew at the point at the time. I didn't, I mean, I had a pretty good idea at that point what happened

and more importantly what didn't happen. But it was definitely a weird feeling. There's no denying that. but I'm really glad that things seem to work out for the best. I don't know if you have shared or have any opinions on the topic. Do I have any opinions? I find it complicated. I know you're not watching this season.

What do you find so complicated? I like watching Bachelor in Paradise. It's fun. It's silly. And I like everyone who watches the show. I'm like, yeah, they're drunk. They're going to hook up. Cool.

Yeah, but I don't, the two aren't. necessarily mutually exclusive. People might drink, people might hook up. How much? This whole notion that people are going to get hammered and then hook up is like, that doesn't... Are you saying that's not what happens on the show? People drink and sometimes at times, whether it's on Bachelor in Paradise or the Bachelor of Bachelorette shows people, there's always the people who get really drunk.

You know, they aren't... hold their alcohol, they forget to eat, they're nervous. I don't know. I mean, but that's not the norm. That's not the majority of the people. Okay. Well, here's the information I have as a media member having not been on the show. Okay. The new rule is you can have two drinks per hour.

I've heard something to that effect. If I had two drinks per hour over the course of three to four hours in the sun, I would be very drunk and embarrassing myself. So to me, so I have two thoughts about that. One is I'm like, well, that's still a lot of alcohol. People could still definitely do things they regret. So at least that will still be entertaining television. But second of all, how much was they drinking before that two per hour is the rule?

Well, who knows? And I don't know if that, I don't think you can make some sort of deduction that if that was the rule, then they must have been drinking a lot more. I think it's just that they didn't police it at all. They didn't pay attention. So if, you know, sometimes people will take three shots in a matter of 10 minutes. I mean, it's been done before. We've all seen it.

And I can't say that it hasn't happened at any point. I just generally think when it comes to alcohol consumption in that world, I've always said, I've never seen anyone be encouraged to drink. Really? I was going to ask you that. I have seen people cut off. You know, I've read stuff from former bachelor people saying something how, like, you know, like if you don't want to drink, the producers will pressure you into drink.

by saying let's have a drink together it's like oh I mean I don't know like okay I mean you can assume that it was just a manipulation or like or maybe the like you know I don't know I've I've been lucky enough in my life that I've when it comes to alcohol consumption I've never blacked out I've never been out of control I've I've been really drunk in my life but I'm fortunate that I get sick you know my body I'll get sick and so I I don't know what it's like to black out I don't know I don't know what it's like to it's scary it's happened me like like a couple, like twice. It's scary. And, you know, certainly when I drink alcohol, you lose some of your inhibitions, but

but I've never felt out of control and I can't say I've never remember anything and I can't say that I can't be accountable for my actions. You don't like lose, like I lose dialogue. I'll remember like where I was, but like I'll remember, I don't remember like saying stuff. You know, I, there's been a couple of times where I've been, and it was a long time ago in college, for the most part, but where I've been really under the influence. Sure. And I got really sick.

And I was hammered. And I still vividly remember parts of those nights. I remember thinking about how hammered I was. Like, I remember knowing. I just, I've been lucky that I can't go there. But at the same time, like, I never felt like I was being pressure on that show. I think in that world, people, especially, like, cast members, have a convenient way of, of sometimes when things don't go their way

blaming the show or blaming producers or like stretching out like oh if they wanted to have a drink with me then that it was all this you know listen producers are producing a show yeah and there's no doubt and I'm not sitting I'm not here to like defend producers

but like if if all they do is like I will you know I will say that I've at times I think producers sometimes will remind people knowing that they want to, you know, if they show up, they kind of want to get airtime. Cast members do. And they'll remind people that sometimes if you don't speak up and say what you want to say,

chances are you won't ever get noticed. So if that's manipulation, then oh my God, so what? Although they are simply pointing out people, them knowing that they want to be heard. Do you think that some people are like more manipulated than others, though? Because there are like other, there were stories on people like Chris Bukowski and like other folks who were like, you know, this show ate me up and spat me out. I don't doubt that, but people have to take some ownership for their actions in life and on the TV show. And I've been on all ends of The Bachelor. It's interesting because you were made to be the villain.

You were villainized, right? I was definitely the villain, you know. And did I think I actually did villainous things in reality? Of course not, you know. I think one thing that's like tricky though, that's different between The Bachelor and The Bachelorette is like for you as a man like pursuing Andy or pursuing Caitlin, I don't think it comes across as like a problem for the guys. But I don't think it seems like as aggressive as the way that like Corinne pursued you or Courtney Robertson pursued Ben or like even like Tierra. Remember her from Sean Lowe's season who like talked about her sparkle? Vaguely. I didn't really watch that season, but I remember.

Is it different? I saw parts of it. It's a different characterization of women when they're like aggressive, sexually aggressive. Also keep in mind, just the term villain in Bachelor World is just I know, it's ridiculous. It's just someone who, it's

a high school popularity contest. I would love it if you, if someone was like, oh, you're going to be the Bachelorette, I must be on your show to pursue you. That's so nice and flattering. Often the seasons are very, very bro-y, right? And there's a lot of conforming. it's like high school. And there's a lot of conforming, you know, strength and numbers,

and especially for the people who don't get a lot of time early on with the lead, they're bonding with the people. And so when people who are outliers, who challenge the status quo, something maybe is aggressive of Chad, you know, calling all the guys out and being like, or just a guy who's, you know, decides to get a girl flowers because, like, he had a good date.

Like, when you isolate yourself, whether deliberately or unintentionally, like, saying myself, you're going to get eyes on you, and you're going to get some heat. And then there's a lot of caddiness, whether it's from the guys or girls. And that's how you, you know, for the most part, that's your villain. You know, it's not, it's a popularity contest. Chad, on Paradise, though, didn't he say, like, wasn't he pretty mean to Sarah? I'm not defending, yeah.

I mean, listen, Chad's, you know. I'm just saying it's not the same. They've been extreme, like, for the most, I've always said in that world, you're, for the most part, never is good or as bad is what people perceive. you to be, right? Listen, there's no defending Chad's actions in paradise, and he was aggressive, and I never felt like any of our lives were in danger by any means. But I think, I thought he was being incredibly disrespectful at the time to Sarah, and I think she...

Yeah, I heard she's really cool. Yeah, she's cool. And I think it was wise for him to go at that point. But, like, also, I mean, I don't really know Chad. Were you there yet when Chad? Yeah. Were you on all of Parasurban? I was. I was the second one to arrive and one of the last to leave.

Nice. Yeah, you and what was her name? Jen? The dark hair. We don't need to talk about her. You've moved on. I just think that it's different with the way that men and women are characterized on these shows. Like, men are made to seem like kind of dumb or, like, too drunk. Whereas, like, I feel like, if I was Claire Crawley, first of all, her dating Terrell Owens is one of the most underrated things that's happened in our world. She's dating Terrell Owens? She was last summer. I don't know if she still is.

Come on, that's great. Yeah, I had no idea. So you're dancing with the stars brethren. Wasn't he on dancing at one point? I don't know. I'm sorry. Do you not watch reality TV? Not really.

What do you watch? Netflix. What do you watch right now? Have you watched Glow? I heard it was very good. No. I'm behind, yeah. I watched the most recent season of House of Cards.

Oh, nice. Did you like it? You know, I love the show. It's, I really didn't like the ending of the season. Nothing will beat season one in the first half of season two. When she gets, spoiler alert, hit by the train. When Zoe gets by the train. I love Kate Mara.

I was sad when she left. I don't like Kevin Spacey, so I went into that show. Back to Paradise. So. I thought we were going to cover like. We barely talked about Paradise. There was a lot to cover here, and you're an expert. Let's continue.

I've heard from several people, you included it. They actually didn't drink that much. Paradise. I remember Ashley I said she was never drunk on camera. I'm not a huge drinker in the sense that I don't binge drink. And so like I certainly drank. I had a beer here and there and at the cocktail parties I had a few whiskeys, but you never seemed to add a control on your season. That's just me in general and there are plenty of times I'm not drinking. Like you just can't like you know lace. Lace was the opposite. She seemed to always kind of be on that level.

But, you know, she certainly, like, wasn't other than maybe the first 20 minutes of getting there with Chad, you know, she was fine. I just, you know, having been on all sides of it, I think cast will conveniently blame the show for their things that happen. And it's not to say that they don't genuinely, might feel. you manipulated. That doesn't mean, you know, but it's so easy to read what's out there going in and conveniently blame the show.

And what I mean by that is like, again, like, I don't, my perception of what happened on Andy season was different than what you guys saw. Sure. But I can't deny that, and I've said this before, another podcast, that it's a, you know, I was aggressive with my time and I didn't really care about getting drunk. with all the bros all the time. And so... So, like, what would you do when you'd wake up?

That rubbed him the wrong way. And so they talked crap. And then... You're the... I'm not here to make friends guy. I didn't... And I never really said that, but I was like, you know... And I didn't expect it, but, like, I sincerely liked Andy.

And at that point, I just decided to not waste my time with those guys and focus on something that I actually meant something to me in the moment. Okay. I respect that. I mean, I also get that. Like if I was competing with other guys for... But also, it was a season that, you know, probably from a show standpoint, wasn't casted that great because I don't think the show enjoyed making me the villain.

Quite honestly, if Chad was on my season, I never would have been the villain. I would have been just the guy who took second. You're not watching, so you don't know this, but Rachel's crop of dudes blow. Like so much worse than Andy's or Caitlin's or who was last season, Jojo? Worse than Andy's? Andy's pretty terrible. Who were the other people that went far? I guess she had Juan Pablo.

I didn't have one by the way. Oh, no. Sorry, she was on one of Pablo. Who else was on that season with you? Josh Murray. Oh, well, we know about Josh. Maybe the top half is pretty good. And we had Chris Souls.

Okay. Who else? I guess I don't remember any of them. There you go. Weren't that good. But it was just a lot of, that season in particular was very bro-y. We even got the lecture from Chris Harrison or Andy where it was like it became a thing that we were just, all the guys were just like in love with each other, which happens to a certain

degree every season. Sure. But there weren't a lot of guys willing to have an original thought and put themselves out there. It was like if it was like approved by all the other guys and it was all like fist pumps after you got to talk to the girl. So would they like wake up and start drinking and you just wouldn't hang with them? There were just some drinkers in that group. It wasn't like everyone.

I know that you don't have to drink, but if you want to start drinking at 10, they will. It is always available. Happened. I mean, they cast adults, and we get treated like adults, you know? I mean, I know some people don't. You're not allowed to read, but you can drink. That's not true. You are allowed to read.

Did you bring a book with you? No. So what would you do? You'd wake up. One season I did, but I didn't read it. I would bring, like, a lot of magazines. So you wake up, what times are your wake-up on The Bachelor, Bachelorette? Have we covered this?

Your wake-up time? I don't think so. Sorry. I'm an early riser, but for the most part, they, you know, nine-ish. And then what? Are you talking about Paradise or The Bachelor? It all depends on the date. Or as the Bachelor, you get no sleep.

None. None whatsoever. Okay, whatever. This is minutia. I care about it, but other people probably don't. What's your biggest regret about being the Bachelor? You can come back. Biggest regret?

I'm not one who, you know, I'm a Renault-regats kind of guy, you know. Yeah. What's the one, like, I know before, in pre-production, you, like, go over, like, your likes and dislikes to set up the dates. Like, obviously. What do you mean? You're, like, they, you say, like, yeah, I would love to do this kind of date, or I'd like to do X, Y, or Z. Like, you have some input on the dates that you go on. Yeah. They do. I mean, you know, I got lucky because we, last second, went to Wisconsin. Oh, right, because I had a lot of influence. Like, the roller skating date was all me. Okay. That looked awesome.

It was awesome. And it was actually 100%. percent my idea. I've heard that's a really good museum, first of all. Yes. And second of all, there's nothing, I can't think of anything better than like a fancy date in an empty museum. That just sounds like the most fun. That's pretty cool. That's like if you're, yeah, I just, I would love to do that. Great stuff by you. Thank you. Okay, so I can't get a regret out of you. What, I mean, um, what was the hardest part of being the bachelor? Like anything else, it's easy to go back. Um, you know, sometimes you are, you know, you can always wish you would put your foot down in situations more with with some of the women.

But part of being the bachelor of the bachelorette is to let people be themselves. Yeah, you got to be open to it. You know, you can't shoot things down. And, you know, I knew that at times I wasn't a criticism for allowing things to happen, and that's annoying. But I don't really regret it because it's like you got to let things play out. Okay. All right.

Fair enough. Fair enough. I want to go back to Paradise for a second. I forgot to tell you what the other new rule that they have. Oh, okay. The other rule is if you want to have sex, you have to ask permission from a producer or to like tell them what's going to happen. I mean, that's this kind of obvious based off of what happened, but whatever. Well, like, how did it used to go down?

You could just do whatever you wanted, right? You could just like walk off. Well, the traditional rule was there's these couple rooms and they have names from them. I forget what they are, like the boom boom room. They have like the tree house and some other one. And the rule there was you can't sleep in it unless you're a couple. Wow. Right.

So it was like a nicer room or something? No, yeah, not really not. It was like it was more private. Uh-huh. Where everyone else is kind of bunked in a master bedroom. The guys, the women and men are separated. But you're just with a bunch of dudes, you know, in bunks or with a bunch of women. Like a twin bad.

Yeah. So there's just some privacy there, right? And so that was the rule. And it seemed to work, given that, like, a, Adults seem to be, like I said, they're just clearly just reacting to what happened. It's probably a little over the top for the sake of what happened and doing the right thing. All it is is just saying, hey, listen, we know you guys like each other. All right.

If anything goes down, you're wanting this to happen and you're wanting this happen. And great, now they're just covering there. Sure. It's like for liability. Yeah. I mean, it's probably a little over the top and ridiculous. but like it's also it's not even

I'm guessing like so what it's just like right before you go to bed because in Paradise things are way more casual way more producers or hanging out with cast

and vice versa so there is more like producer cast intermingling in paradise yeah but even just cast ingramingling intermingling and like in The Bachelorette

and Bachelor they have these things called man chats and girl chats where they're often like you know you're hanging out the house or hanging out to hotel and just to drive conversation about like what's going on in

the date it's always like oh hey you know um you two let's let's have a conversation and you know depending on who the people are they might be chatty kathies or the they might be a little bit more closed off and maybe a producer will ask them questions like oh what do you think's going on the date today you know do i think they'll get a rose and like it's always these same similar questions and paradise there's just so there's just none of that that's awesome actually it's It's really, it's just a lot more organic conversations, a lot of conversations about nothing. Right. There's almost no guy chats or girl chats or group chats, very little.

And so. I'm guessing to implement this rule, like right before you go to bed, it's like, hey, all right, you guys are going to go in the tree house. So you guys, you know, to adults, but if something goes down, I have your consent. Okay, sign here. Okay, great. Like it's not like they're going to, you know, so I'm guessing that's that. And it's probably nothing more. I always felt like there actually wasn't as much sex in Paradise as they wanted you to believe.

There isn't. And even if you wanted to believe, I mean, it's up until, I mean, not to like, up until me, there wasn't like, it was like people assumed there was sex on the show, but it was never really talked about. I know. You did, you broke, I think you've broken a few unofficial rules that have changed. of the show, in my opinion. The show's probably evolved since I've been on it. Yeah, you're like, yeah, it's interesting. Because I've thought a lot about this.

I wrote about it for the ringer.com as well. The Bachelor is like ultimately like a chaste show. Like we're like, there's like time for sex at the end. Sorry, in the fantasy suite. And otherwise, like, you're not supposed to do it. You know what I mean? Well. I mean, people do.

I know. Well, you're not supposed to. Like when Caitlin and I had our thing in Dublin. Oh, yeah. That wasn't supposed to happen. Right. Which doesn't really make any sense, but in that world. Yeah, it seems like a great date.

It was, you know. And it was like eight days before the fantasy suite dates. Yeah, no, it's ridiculous. But it was like out of sequence. It was out of sequence. And again, at the time, people had no idea just how much the two of us knew each other and how familiar we were and how many conversations we had. Also, even if you didn't, who cares?

You're having a good date. Sure. Like you don't have to explain yourself, but whatever. You know, that's the criticism we got. But no, it's not about sex. And even paradise. It's like wildly overblown. It's like, oh, people with Sex Island.

And like, for the most part, just friends hanging out, you know. It's not like some orgy. It's not like people are cooking up. That's all ridiculous. And it's not, it's in no means a drunk fest. But yeah, it's not shocking. Like every season of every kind of show, the first if, filming there's always one or two people who you know get a little too excited too quickly and drink

too much and make bad decisions but um we have to be accountable for our decisions um i there's the you know do you plan to watch paradise yeah i want to you know in a sense that i like i love the show It's fun Well You know The cast You know Like

It's going to be primarily Rachel's guys And a lot of the women From my season Right I guess that could be Kind of weird for you It's not weird

It's just not compelling for me Right Because you know them It's just like Eh You know Part of the fun of these shows It's like projecting onto people

Or whatever Yeah And it's just like I'm not rooting Like there's no I don't have vested interest In anyone There

Raven's there I'm just saying She's just mentioning that she's there As a lovely human being You know Wish for the best in life I think the craziest moment ever on The Bachelor Was when she told the story

About being up her boyfriend I'll never I'll never forget it I'll never ex-boyfriend I will never ever forget that one I always appreciated her authenticity And honesty She got the best date You know they didn't air that segment in Arkansas

I heard about that Like apparently it was a mistake But Was it that or was it the It doesn't matter I don't like talking about. Your season? Yeah.

Why? Because, like, I just... Does it feel disrespectful? No. No. I mean, like, Vanessa, she's a very confident person. That doesn't... Stuff doesn't bother her.

It's just more... Like, nothing good can come from me talking about it in a sense that, like, it only, like, can make headlines where, like, someone can take it the wrong way. Like, you know, I've kind of moved on from it, you know? Did you guys watch the show together? Well, most of the time, she was in my... Montreal because we couldn't see each other but face time while watching not really I you know as the as the lead you get episodes in advance so you know being my fiance Vanessa also had the luxury of of seeing things

early right as I'm gonna say the winner has to be able to see things early too otherwise that's bullshit there's some special privileges that the quote unquote winner gave come on she won she won you four time up here it's tough it's tough being in her position it really must be like I can't I can't imagine. Like, I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't go to show. I mean, it's, you know, I'll say this. It's not to make a headline, but, you know, having talked to past couples and they kind of always prepare you, but unfortunately, the, the, the, the, the, the, the bachelor couples, there's really no such thing. I think every couple before us would agree, even the ones who are still together, would agree that there's really no, like, you know how every couple in life, you

I have this honeymoon phase. Sure. There's no such thing as a honeymoon phase in Bachelor world. You just don't have the luxury of everything's fast-tracked. You're in the fire right away. You're in the fire right away. The first thing you have to do is kind of like download all the things that happened when you're on dates.

You're out of respect because like you just, you know things were going on. But like it's all of a sudden the winner goes from I have to be okay with him dating other women to this is my fiance. And I'm, he's no longer the best. bachelor to me. This is my equal. Right. Right. This is our life. This is our life. And I've made these sacrifices and these crazy decisions and I have, you know, and so that's, and every couple before that deals with that. And so, and then you go having to rewatch it and then most likely live in different cities.

And there's nothing easy about it. And so there's no such thing as a honeymoon phase. And I think every, you know, every day that Vanessa and I have together with each other, we're thankful because, you know, there's always great days and there's days we have to, you know, work through things. That's true of any relationship. Every relationship. And I think the cards are stacked against, unfortunately, just by nature of the show. I don't think I'm, like, you know, revealing any big thing is that it's not easy to start

a relationship in that environment. And so it's not, it's, because, you know, for all the criticism, you know, Bachelor Gets and the couples, It's not about whether you really, like, love someone. All the relationships that having been a part of one and not knowing the details, like, they're all, in people, like, oh, is it real? They're all real. They're all real feelings. I mean, especially in Bachelor and Bachelorette.

You know, Paradise, who knows. It's a good spring break. I think there's an even mix. There's some, obviously, you know, people. Evan and Carly, shout out for them. Jade and Tanner. But she's pregnant, huh? Yeah.

But they're all real. What you have to go through to get to the end, there's real feelings. But it's after that of getting to know each other and dealing with some stuff that no couple has ever used to had thought they'd even have to deal with. So what's the one thing you were worried about her seeing on TV? I wasn't really worried about her seeing anything, to be honest. I was, I was without getting in the detail, I was comfortable with my decisions, and I was okay with telling her telling her.

what did and didn't happen. And I quite honestly was proud of my decisions as The Bachelor, knowing that I had a relationship to protect with Vanessa. But it doesn't make it easy. And it doesn't mean that there weren't things that she still don't. You know, like what I still dated 29 other women for nine weeks. So bizarre. What was the best advice you got from someone who'd been in your position or one of the winners?

Your great love, Ben Hickens. you're never going to let me forget about how much I love Ben what could I do to make that less of a sticking point nothing okay yeah okay fine one thing is that Ben is so gracious I've wondered how aware he is of how much I talk about how much I love him he would never let me know he's just too nice too much of a peopold pleaser

yeah I'd call you out if it was it you have you you would call me out on anything it's okay though I like to be called out it's good um I uh yeah he just told me if I'm not feeling don't pick someone. Interesting. Okay. But thankfully I was, so I did. I'm so relieved that you and Ben, have a good relationship.

It would be very hard for me otherwise. Yeah. I mean, I think Ben and I, we consider each other friends. We don't like talk on a regular basis. Sure. We've always been kind of there for each other. And I've asked his advice at times, and he's asked mine. And, you know, we certainly have a lot to share with mutual experiences.

and we've been there for each other from time to time. For some reason, Caitlin's season, just a gold mine when it comes to her guys. They really keep giving. Jared is that season, right? Jared, yeah. I think Ben Z. Yeah, he is there. I'm not particularly into him, but he's just, like, in the mix a lot.

Is it? Yeah, he's back on Paradise again. With his giant shoulder tattoo. Gigantic. I don't know if, what is he, I mean, he's a handsome guy. He's not offering much to me, but I'm just saying, I think Caitlin's season produced a lot of characters. I feel like your season was kind of low on the hot tubs.

I mean, obviously you and Vanessa at the end had the hot, cold tub. No, there was an early run. I don't know if they all made it. Danielle and I. I forgot about Danielle. Well, often, that tends to happen. Oh, man. Do you want to know what?

I go to a SoulCycle around here, and the nail salon next door is owned by Danielle L. Oh. D. L. Interesting. Winner of the Backstreet Boys date. How are the Backstreet Boys? What were they like in person?

Because I'm obsessed with them. I went to their Vegas show and it was incredible. Really great people. Who was the nicest? All of them, really. I mean, not to, Howie was... Howie and Kevin seem the most normal to me. Kevin was definitely like this really...

It was weird to think that he's a backstreet boy. Oh my God, I love them. Only because he's so, like, stoic and mature. Yeah, he's so mature. I mean, he's also almost 50, but that's fine. He started in the Backstreet Boys and he was 21 and they've been together for 24 years. But I love Hem, he's my favorite now. They were so nice and down to earth.

Were they like Bachelor Watchers? I don't think so. Have they ever seen him before? I don't know. I didn't quiz them. I didn't get the sense that they were big Bachelor Watchers. Okay. Nick Carter's on an ABC show now.

So you're our equals. He's on Boy Band. Well, he's hosting it. Yes. So that's a little above my pay grade. Oh, interesting. That brings up another important thing. Chris Harrison's basically not on the show anymore.

He has so little screen time. Have you noticed that? Yeah, I mean, the show's evolving. It's interesting. I wonder if he's still getting paid as much. I'm assuming he is. I don't know. I mean, his rate per minute has certainly shot up.

These are not questions I can really answer. Are you still under contract with ABC? Yeah, but even just still. It's again, like, Chris is a great guy. People can always just take things out of context when it comes. And when it comes to the, I don't, like, this is a, I did a podcast recently with a couple of friends, but this is a testament to our friendship because I don't do this stuff. You and me? I hate talking about Bachelor World.

And I love my time there and I'm very grateful for it. But at this point, I feel like all I can do is make headlines I don't want to make. All right. We don't need to, I won't keep putting in a tough position, though. But I'm always going to be selective. of like Chris is a friend. He's a great guy and the show's evolving and, um, okay, very diplomatic.

I appreciate that. So what's next for you other than the Polish gent? Do you like living in L.A.? I do, yeah. I'm, you know, I was doing some stuff out in entertainment before I went on in Paradise. Um, and obviously this, this opportunity as the bachelor is a nice platform that, um, you know, we'll see what's next. You have a lot of Instagram followers now.

How many do you have? Like 2 million? No, no. One point something? 1.3-ish. That's a lot. It's not bad, you know. That's like very significant.

Well, you know. That's what you get for being in the back, I guess. So we'll see what's next. I mean, I've... Would you consider going on TV again? For sure. Yeah, I'd consider it. Depends.

I'm not in any way going to ever do a reality TV show as the subject, especially about my dating life. That's not going to happen. There's going to be no Nick and Vanne. so. Happily ever after. Question mark. You know how that question ends. And yeah, we'll see.

But I will say this. Like, I'm not, if I'm never on TV again, then so be it. I'm never going to do something just to be on TV. I don't see myself doing marriage boot camp. Actually, I'm never going to do marriage boot camp. I've got a suggestion. I don't do, I'm not going to do like some bad cooking show. What?

The cooking shows are a good idea. The celebrity. Bad cook. You should be on HGTV. Maybe it depends on what it is. You can be the next chip in Joanna Gaines. Do you know how to build stuff? Sure.

Okay. I just hung some pictures on my wall. Oh, nice. Nick, suggestion. Survivor. Go on Survivor. No, I don't want to do reality TV like that. Oh, but the thing is you're an athlete.

We know that about you from your time. You're good at talking to the camera, and you're really good at interpersonal relationship. So I think you could go far. Probably. But you still don't want to do it. I think it's the most respectable reality show. Over the...

Yeah, sorry, over The Bachelor. I mean, I don't... The Bachelor was the only network television show to increase its... Thanks, Nick. That's my badge of honor. I know, great job. Imagine what you could do for Survivor. Survivor, I feel like it's on the decline.

I don't know. It's still a really good show. I also think that you... I've never seen it. You have it? No, my God. I've heard great things. I've heard great things.

You would love it. you should watch it. You're not watching anything anyway. I know you've got the time for it. I would like to not do reality TV if possible. Okay, so we have to get you a scripted show. As a contestant. We'll see.

I don't have any specific plans. Would you be a producer? Yeah. I would. Sure. I don't know. I wouldn't say no to anything specifically other than being contested on a reality TV show, per se. Okay.

I want you to watch Survivor. and that we can have this conversation again. You know, I learned a lot being in the bachelor world. I could probably be a producer. I could probably be a good reality TV producer. Here's some other ideas. What about writing a book? Like a tell-all, like Andy style?

Don't you think that's a little scandalous? I probably could write the best tell-all of all time. You definitely could. Not even close. Yeah, you've been around so much. There's so much that people don't even know, too. Seriously. You won't even tell me off, Mike.

Save me for your book, your memoirs. I just think that's a bit. I like to think I'm better than that. Okay. If I ever wrote a book, it wouldn't be a tell-all-based. I think some things are better left on sad. It's not to say that there might be like some tidbits in there about my experiences, but, you know, and again, the part of the reason why I showed discretion in podcast is like just because

I have opinions about things and people doesn't necessarily mean I should share it. Because it's not going to do anyone any good. Fucking men. I wish the whole world realized that, except for me, of course, on my own podcasts. Yeah, I just, you know, and so I would like to, if I were to write something, it would be about maybe connecting my experience on the show and relating it to, I think there's a lot of correlations between life and The Bachelor. I think that's so successful as a show, it's why it's so relatable. And I think as ridiculous of an environment as it is, there's a lot to be gained from it. And there's a lot of, like, things you can learn from it.

And so if it would maybe be around something like that. And then maybe I'd drop in some nuggets of things that happened. But it wouldn't be a tell-all book to basically roast all the people I interacted with. Sure. You're not going to get your revenge on Andy. Yeah. I mean, what's the, you know, I just don't see the point. Guess you guys made up.

Were you surprised when she arrived in Brooklyn? Nothing surprises me. Okay. You know. You know how things go. I will, you know. Yeah. So I don't know.

Should we talk about the Kardashians? Sure. What happened yesterday? I don't know too much about it, but I was flying back from Chicago. And, wow. Rob Kardashian used to date Black China. Are you familiar with her? Very, very vaguely.

Before she did Rob Kardashian, she did a Taiga. Taiga dates Kylie Jenner. So that's like a weird web. That seems super messed. It's a weird web. Rob and China had a child together named Dream. The child, I think, is like around one year old or something. Are you a fan?

Are you a fan? You seem to be well-versed. I am well-versed. I am definitively not a fan. I actually hate... I've never seen a full-off. That's not sure. I just recently watched a full-up episode.

We don't have to talk about this long as then. Well, I'm just going to fill you in. It's actually, it's kind of like the Paradise scandal. I saw his tweets. Yeah, so I unfortunately did as well. So he was mad at her. And in the past, they have, like, gotten back each other by, like, tweeting each other's phone numbers or calling each other out.

but he went on a run on Instagram where his account then got suspended. So he took it to Twitter and he posted all of these extremely graphic naked photos of her. Really awful. That's not good. That's awful. I did tweet something about, I'm always fascinated and amongst like my peers in Bachelor World are just, I would argue that it's more productive to watch paint dry than to argue with the internet. Yeah, absolutely. As someone who's on the internet all day, I agree.

Like, it's just the arguments people will have with the internet or react to the internet. And it's just like, really? Totally. Listen, I've been there. I've, you know, certainly had a lot of darts thrown my way over the years. But, like, and it's not to say it hasn't gotten to me a little bit. But, like, isn't there at some point some, like, realization of this is not ever really going to. It's funny.

I was talking to my mom about this who's not like a, you know, a denizen of Twitter, really, although she's, like, familiar with it. And it's really hard to explain to someone who doesn't have that impulse and is rational why you would want to just, like, fire off a tweet that's, like, aggressive or mean or rude. I get it, right? And that's not to say I haven't had that feeling at times. Sure you have as the receiver of so much criticism. But, I mean, in life, almost always the best response is nothing.

Yeah. High ground. And you just got to ask you, it's always, all you're going to do is like the only thing it accomplished is just getting something off your chest. But no one's listening to you. Totally. Especially on the internet. I guess some people find it to be like cathartic or I don't know. I guess.

Do you ever read Reddit? No. What's your internet like consumption like? Lots of sports. Sports news. But you're not going to do basketball. It's a real problem for me. I'm a sports fan.

So I'm very, like I followed the NBA free agency. You know, I'm not a. NBA fan, but I could hold my own in a sports conversation, and I could sound like an intelligent NBA fan. I believe that. I believe that. Bulls, disaster. Although, are you a Bucks fan?

I'm more of a Bucks fan. Janice is amazing. I love him. He's really, really something. Yeah, he's got a great smile, and he really likes Ed Shearan. Just love that guy. He's very, I wonder what his ceiling is. It seems high.

Oh, definitely. I'm really excited about him. There's a lot of, there's, as of today, rumors that his people will try to get him out of Milwaukee so he can be a bigger star elsewhere. Where? Where? I don't know. I mean, he's not a long-term contract. It's not like it's easily going to happen. I mean, you know, that's a problem that Milwaukee's always going to have. The money that's being thrown

around the NBA. It's wild. Wow. Seriously. Like between like there was Blake Griffin, Stefan Curry, and a third player that I can't think of. Between their, the guaranteed money assigned to them is more than 20 NFL quarterbacks

combined. It's crazy. Quarterbacks. Like that... NFL players got a raw deal. They need to renegotiate. It's ridiculous. That's because the NFL is bigger than the players, and that's the only sport where it's about the sport, not the players itself, and the NBA is all about the stars.

Totally. They don't wear helmets. I can see Yon's his smile on every play. It's crazy in the money. I know. And you can't say it's not justified. Imagine being Markhal Fultz, in your 19 years old,

and you're fucking millionaire now. It can be at all the Chick-fil-A in the world. He's a big Chick-fil-A fan. And even if he ends up being like a below-average player, he's going to get like still a $40 million guaranteed contract. Not even like sick. Hope he's got a good money manager. He'll get like, you know.

I know. A seventh man gets 40 million guaranteed in the NBA. Sir are you a Packers fan too? Die hard. I like Aaron Rogers. I don't know him as a person, but I love him as a quarterback. Have you met Jordan? His brother?

Yeah. What a world. It's so wild that the Rogers and the Bachelor intersected. That is weird, right? I still remember it and can't get over it. I love it. It's bizarre. Jordan's my white whale.

I've been trying to get him to come on this podcast. I don't think it's going to work out. Why not? I don't know. He doesn't respond to me. I emailed him a couple times. I've met him a couple times. Nice guy.

I don't. They're living in Dallas, just kicking it. They seem to do a lot of home construction. I guess they flip houses. I'd like to be a house flipper. Well, you know, doesn't he work for ESPN? Maybe there's a conflict of interest there. No, I'm cool with ESPN.

Yeah, no, it's fine, you can bring it up. No bad blood. Yeah, I don't know. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, if I could, if I knew him, I would recommend. Thanks, Nick. What would you ask Jordan? I would ask a shit ton about his relationship with Aaron Rogers.

Well, see, then that's why he's not going to come on. I wouldn't start there. I would ease him into it. I think I can lull him to a safe space. I get why you want to do that, but from my, I don't, very limited understanding. It's like, why would anyone... It would be irresponsible for me to not ask about it. Fine, it would be irresponsible for him to answer anything.

Fine. Wouldn't it? I guess. I also... Everything that you, anything he says, even like pleading the fifth is going to, like, make an unnecessary headline that, well, I'm assuming... You're spooked by headlines, man. No, it's just, you know, people, like, you know, that's...

I'm never going to... Listen, I, you know, I asked for this. other thing, you know, being in the public eye. But, like, you know, everywhere we go. We, you know, like, just recently I've just found out, like, someone took a picture of Vanessa on a plane and, like, went to every media outlet trying to sell a story about how our body language wasn't to their expectations. Is that the second time that happened to you?

Wasn't there a plane footage of you coming home? Well, that was, yeah, that was a video. Right. But this was just pictures of us, like me being on my phone and Vanessa looking at the window and sleeping. And the truth is, Vanessa and I don't talk to each other on the plane most of time because people like that might be listening. Also, who talks on planes? It's rude.

Well, yeah, or just, but that's the thing. It's just like a, it's hard not to have to look over your shoulder. I mean, I like to think of Vanessa, I do a great job of just living our lives. But, you know, then stuff like that happens. You know, every time you like let your guard down, you know, someone, you never, I never would have thought I've been on a plane with that. I remember that flight. I don't remember who I was sitting next to, but someone was literally taking a photo shoot of us

without us knowing. Did they, so did they sell those photos? Yeah. So it's just like... Are they in Star? They're in some magazine. Oh, wow. That sucks.

Can they make money off of you? I don't think it's a lot of money, but I think there's certain publications that will buy pictures and some that don't. I'm going to take a picture of you before you leave and see if I can sell it. Just kidding, Nick. I would never. I would never. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just, unfortunately, there's these eyes on us that it's weird because like the media.

loves the right about The Bachelor. They do. I mean, even... Drives those clicks. It drives those clicks. Bachelor gets clicks. I mean, Josh and Amanda still get clicks. I don't even think they're together.

Snoose on both of them. No interest. She's back on Paradise, I guess. It seems like an interesting choice. It's a bad choice. I'm very critical of her. Why? Because moms shouldn't go on Paradise.

If you're serious about the, like, the role that you're setting? All I'll say to that is I'm very, very, very thankful for the mother of I had. Okay. That's a great note to wrap things up, I think. Are we done? You want to keep going? We've been talking for like an hour. It's up to you. I got a little bit of time. All right. What else? What's next? What haven't we covered? I don't know. We've only talked about me. I am so boring. I'm happy to tell you whatever you would like that. We can talk about other people.

Okay. Sure. Who do you want to talk about? Who do you want to talk about? I don't know. Many of the topics I raise you've rejected because they're too hot. We can talk more about Paradise. I don't know. I mean, it's just more like my season. It's like, oh, you know, I don't know. Your season was the best season. I guess yours was good.

My season wasn't that good? You were the revelation. It was one of the highest rated shows. You're very invested in ratings as like a validation. I think, well, not every lead cares about it. Like they do. Does Ben? Of course.

Okay. Yeah. Sure. You don't think so? I don't know what he's going to tell you, but he, like, he talked about his ratings. to me. He'd be like, this is the thing, Juliet, that you just don't understand. You just want everyone to enjoy what they're seeing. Ben's the people pleaser. That's why I love them. But listen, I think every lead, like, they hear about the producers talking about it, like,

as the lead, you have a certain relationship with the producers. And like, yeah, you want to, like, you feel like you're responsible for it a lot. And so you want it to do well. That's an interesting note, because I think that I really like Rachel and I would like to watch her. And I don't, I think the ratings have not been great this season and are like, fine. But it's, like, not a great season. It has nothing. to do with her? Yeah. Are you aware of the lead drama on her season?

I'm, yeah, a little bit familiar. There was a guy who had like these really racist tweets, and it's just like kind of a cloud of the season. It's a bizarre choice by the show. I don't know. I don't know anything about that. I was familiar with the tweets. You would think that they would be aware of something like that, but who knows?

I don't know if something like that flies under the radar, but anything is possible. It's very weird. So who else are you in touch with a lot? from your various seasons. Less than less now. I mean, I'm spending a great majority of my time with Vanessa and family and friends. Smart.

I always like, you know, like, again, Wells, Jared, Ashley I, Carly and Evan are the twins. Paradise Alums. The twins are interesting to me. I'm still close with the twins. People seem to like the twins. I love the twins. Is it because they're fun?

They're just cool. I mean, I have a huge appreciation for people who are authentically themselves. in a genuine sort of way. Not the people who say, I'm just going to do me. Like, it's an act. Did you watch their show?

I was on dancing, so it was air at the same time, unfortunately, I didn't get to see it. But, you know, like the twins, and for different reasons, even like Evan. Like, Evan isn't a weird guy. You know?

He knows it. And he owns who he is. And he's just interesting, and he doesn't mind showing his insecurities and having a conversation. and talking about real things. The twins are the same. You know, they're interesting women,

and, you know, they own up to their flaws and insecurities, and they're just interesting to talk to, not because we're not, like, philosophizing with the twins, but they're just... It's a good name for a podcast, philosophizing with the twins. They're interesting to me in that way. Ashley has the same. Jared as well.

Jared, like, Jared's gotten better. I've worked on Jared. Ooh, what does that mean? What have you done? Well, I mean, I haven't done anything. But like I've always challenged Jared whether he's I mean I've I take no ownership for Jared's development as a human being But I've always given Jared crap about like playing it safe You know, but he he does a little bit

You know, I challenge I'm closer with Jared than I am with Ben So I would you know Sometimes people play it but that's okay. That's that's just who they are I probably I'm more of an outlier than I need to be sometimes I was just recalling how Jared like followed Kayla and was like really into her That was weird. Ben's third last year. She was on Paradise with you.

Yeah. She was really into it. Yeah, you don't even remember her. Wow. Like whatever. Yeah, Jared was like into her. Unless that was for TV. No, he was really into her.

Do you ever read RealitySteev.com? Who? Reality. Oh, nice. Okay. Cool. Feisty. No.

I mean. I fell for it. So you don't. I've, you know, I've read his stuff. He's made my life difficult. Sure. No. Just curious.

much that you engage with the kind of the blogosphere? You know, I haven't. Doesn't seem like you read that much about yourself. I've gotten a lot better. I mean, I can't say I've never done it. And I've certainly, early on would go on realitysteve.com with hives. You know, because he leaked that video. Oh, is he the one who leaked it?

Yeah. And so. I mean, I was a celebrity, some dumb kid who just got his heart crushed. And so, yeah, you know, he doesn't. seem to he has a high opinion of himself I think I don't know maybe or not I don't really know the guy but he was

a yeah I think he's very opinionated about people he's never met and it sounds like he'll cite his sources but I'm pretty sure most of the people he talks to have some sort of acts to grind sure most people in that world do like it's a show where you show up with a bunch of other

people and you get judged sure and as soon as you get sent home you're like well this stupid you know and there I can't believe I got sent home before so-and-so I would definitely feel that way I'd be like oh fuck this person outlasts me what does that mean about me or to like that's self-reflective at least most people are just like oh he sent me home before that person well he's an idiot and you know and then it's all of a sudden like you know who's the saltiest from your season when they got sent home um you know who I liked by the way I don't know.

But I think every season, they all go home, especially early on and start talking crap about the lead. They even talk crap about Ben. Even Ben. Even Ben. Because it's like he didn't pick them. It's just like, oh, what's wrong with him? And I'm sure, yeah, just Ben. So precious.

You know who I really liked Christina, the Russian gal? No comment. No comment. Okay. Fair enough. I hope she's in paradise. I think she might be. Some people aren't as they appear to be.

Ooh. Okay. Okay, cool. I'll keep that in mind when I'm watching Paradise. I think she's on it. My guess is people will probably like her on Paradise. Okay. Cool.

Do you read reality, Steve? No, I try not to. Oh, because you don't like the spoilers. I don't want those spoilers. It's worse for my podcast. Occasionally I'll check in with what he's up to. I don't follow him on Twitter because he tweets out pictures before airing. Which is fun.

I mean, listen, I give the guy a lot of credit. He's, I think, more than anything. He's a hustler. Well, no, he's a super fan, you know. That's a great point. It's a good insight. And it's, which, you know, it's funny because I'll give a little mindset of what it's like to go on that show for the first time. And people's interactions.

And Normcore. Here's the thing. It's like, it's changed a little bit now. I think social media has kind of warped the world a little bit. But Caitlin season, Andy's season. season, you know, being around the guys, whether I was friends with them or not, my general thought was everyone went on with a level of sincerity that was, I'm here for the adventure, and we'll see what's up, you know?

It wasn't like, I'm going to be this, I'm going to get 200,000, like, it was no concept of social media at that point. It wasn't that big. That's so wild. So what year was the ending season? 14. Something like that. I mean, like, Instagram exists.

And like, yeah. No, but it's true. It was really different. I thought, oh, I'll get a bunch of followers. Like, that will be weird, like, to think, oh, I might have 2,000 people following me or something. It totally was different, though. That was kind of cool. Like, it was like that, but it wasn't, like, a business proposition.

And so I think, and so when people get done, there's just, like, this bizarre realization of how big the show is. And then everyone's just kind of, like, paranoid about whether they're going to look good or bad. And it's funny because overnight people in the show will instantly become recognizable or famous, you know, to certain degrees. depending how far you went. And especially back then, I think, especially in guys, you're really opened up to what is Bachelor Nation and what is Bachelor World. Who is Reality Steve? All the various blogs, Channel 33 in The Ringer. No, but seriously.

So you're saying I'm part of the problem, not the solution? Well, no. What I'm saying is, it's funny because you guys are all just fans at your core, right? some more super fans than others. Wow, you just grew me with Reality Steve. Okay, carry on. And when we first get out, like to me, at the time, reality Steve was like this big name and like who's this guy who knows everything.

Like, is he a part of the show or all these like people who had like these, you know, social media followings who were like had these radio shows. It was like, oh my God, like I hope they like me, you know. But all they are like some are just crazed super fans. Right. But at the time, like, you just hope people like you. And so, like, if someone wants to meet you, you want to meet them because you want to give them to like you in person, you know, because you want them to say nice things about

you on their podcast, you know, because you think they have some like, or they want to, like, everyone's so paranoid, you know, because like we're just afraid of looking bad kind of thing. And so because you're just, you've done this experience, you're, you've got your, like, lights knocked out by the experience. And then you're just, everyone's talking. and your friends are like bringing you all these like blogs and every all your friends and family are showing you everything right i thought you're going to say blondes your friends and family just bringing you all these blondes you know ray hallie steve was like harassing my dad and like

trolling him and like like scaring the crap out of them like that's how he gets out a lot of his information is like talking he talked about crap about the show like you're they're going to screw over your son blah blah and like scaring the crap out of my parents you know and so like um he's email he like reached he'll like try to like find these people and I think we all like and so it's I had this kind of moment you know it's and again I've read the internet and things like that and I remember there's this one Twitter guy on Twitter and he tweeted at me enough that you know I noticed him right and he had this podcast and he was very like a lot of people critical of me and I didn't do like any podcast or whatever of him and so I

I went to the Milwaukee Bucks game. Fun. A couple months ago with Vanessa. And he came up to me. He was there. And there's this guy shaking in his boots. Comes up to me. He's like, Nick, I drove up for Chicago to see you.

And I have this podcast. And I was hoping you'd come and be on it. And I was like, yeah, I don't really, you know, do much of that anymore. And I didn't tell him, but I recognized him from Twitter. Oh, really? Yeah. And I just remember this, like, thought of thinking, When I first went on, he was somebody to me in the sense that he was a guy who had a podcast who commented on me.

And he ultimately had this power over me. And I look, and here's this guy who's this kind of nerdy, weird kind of guy who's like just shaking his boots, meeting me. And this is the guy I was who I'm so worried about what he has to say about me. Right. And it was just kind of like, wow, these are just super fans. They're just crazed super fans who are so much super fans that they start blogs and track people down to do spoilers. And like that's great they can start a business out of it. That's hot take culture.

Yeah. And so it was just kind of like, wow, like this is these are the opinions of the people I cared about. And then you kind of gives you some perspective. And so yeah, they're so critical. Like they, you know, but then they get a chance to meet you and they're, you know, I don't know. I mean, they have a lot, people have a lot of strong opinions about people they've never met, which I find interesting. And then some seem to be more protective of the women versus the men. I mean, there's definitely some of that.

I, as a woman, feel some of that. We were talking about a little before. Like, I just think the way that women get demonized is different. Although I think. Yes, and no, but, like, I know, like, reality and Steve has commented a lot about a lot of the guys. He didn't even write something about like, like, during Jojo's season, it was a lot of like stuff about Jordan. A lot of, like, he does this every season. And I'm sure people came out of the woodwork.

And I'm not, I don't know what. I think he makes fun of them for, like, being dumb, right? Well, yeah, and listen, there's plenty of guys in that world who don't make great decisions. And I'm not here to defend any of those guys. I'm not friends with most of them, right? But like, yeah, guys date, right? And so it's always like he's a player and blah, blah, blah. And I'm not, I don't know what I'm not here to defend them or I don't know.

But it's just like everywhere there's always like these sides of the stories and as long as he's willing to, as someone's willing to talk crap. I mean, I think someone came on his blog who, someone I knew, I was referred to someone by someone. And this person ended up being crazy. And she like was stalking batch for people. Oh, God. And she, you know, she seemed cool at the time. I was like I was told I should like get to know this person. And she also had a blog, you know.

And she worked with someone who did become a friend. And long story short, like, she started, like, making up all these stories about, like, my quote-unquote relationship with her. Like, I barely knew her. But she took a couple pictures of me over the years. And then she since had been, like, kicked out. She went to a couple, like, screenings of, like, tell-alls and stuff like that. And she got kicked. And she spread up a lot of rumors about a lot of people in Bachelor's relationship.

And after I became The Bachelor, she went on his show. And, like, it's the point where I had to block her and think, I hadn't spoken with her a year and a half. And, like, she was, like, saying how, like, I told her that I was The Bachelor and we were still friends, but she was talking crap. And, like, you know, he had her on the show. And it was like, see, you know, like, he had this. But, like, and then he was, I know that he was told that that person was nuts. Right. He didn't, like, check his sources.

It's not like did a retraction or anything. Yeah. And again, I'm sure some of the stuff he gets, there's some accuracy's too. And so it's always one's some perspective. But yeah, I mean, listen, like, it doesn't, I've never allowed to get to me now. I don't pay attention to it. But early on, I mean, I can't say that it didn't. Yeah, I mean, you have to, like, build up like an armor almost, right?

Like, I mean, there were time. Like, after that video, I literally would get, like, panic attacks if he was like, everyone's like, he said he's going to tweet some news. And most of time it was never about me. Right. I would like. I don't even know what I would did. I wasn't even sure what I was afraid to get out. But like I also never thought a plane video would come out.

It is crazy to think about like how much has changed in the three years you've been doing this basically. I guess for you it's longer than three years. Because I think Andy season was 14. Right? Andy season was 10? No. Oh, the year? Oh, it was the 10th episode.

10th season. If reality Steve's listening to this, which I'm sure he will, I'm, I'm, No offense. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Because let's see, Rachel is right now at 17. I'm sure he's a good guy. He's doing something with my friend Charlene now, so. Oh, yeah, so she's doing a part with him.

I've heard she's awesome. She's fantastic. She's very intelligent, very intuitive. She seemed cool. They're doing something together, so. All right, well, Godspeed. Godspeed. Nick, it's great to see you.

Thanks for coming today. Thanks for having me. Hopefully you'll come back again sometime soon. Buy the Polish Gent for the Polish Gent in your life. and follow at Viol Nicholas 28 on Twitter and Nick Viol on

Instagram you do a lot of stories do I don't think I do much at all Oh my God you totally do and that's cool I like it I like to keep up with you I feel like my social media game has gotten worse

Well we're gonna take We took one picture but I think we didn't take another I didn't like it I looked bad Well and I'll post it Thanks for listening I'm Juliet Litman Thanks the hotels tonight as always And I'll be back next week

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