The Press Box - Ben Affleck's Fantastical Back Tattoo: A Timeline | Jam Session (Ep. 444)

Episode Date: March 21, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins break down the timeline of Ben Affleck's phoenix back tattoo now that we finally know it's real (1:52). They also discuss Cynthia Nixon's announcement that she's running for New York governor (24:21), Aubrey O'Day's alleged affair with Donald Trump Jr. (27:15), Rihanna's takedown of Snapchat (34:13), and the latest in the Reese Witherspoon/'Big Little Lies' universe (38:53). More from The Ringer: Cynthia Nixon Might Not Be the Average Celebrity Candidate The Secret Ingredient—and Best Hope—of ‘Roseanne’ Subscribe to 'The Recappables' Also: Photos of Ben Affleck's back tattoo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, everyone. We are very excited to talk about Ben Affleck's tattoo and other assorted notes on jam session. But first, I'd like to tell you a little bit about what's happening at the rest of the ringer. First, I'd like to talk about the recapables, which is a podcast about television. We recap it. Every week after season 2 of Atlanta, we talk about the episode. I've had a lot of ringer Sapphers join me. It's been very fun. Very soon, we will also have recapables billions starting this Sunday night with a man named Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin. they are very excited. They have been rewatching the show.

They have been collecting Henleys and yelling at each other about wags. If you are fan of billions or you just want to listen to two people be really excited about some TV, I recommend it. Speaking of TV on The Ringer itself, Rob Her Villa just wrote a really great piece

about the first nine seasons of Roseanne. So if you have not watched Roseanne in a while and or we're not around for Roseanne, I recommend checking it out. It'll be great before the show comes back. And since we're about to talk about Cynthia Nixon, Justin Charity wrote a great piece about her announcing her candidacy for the governorship of New York. So check that out. And now let's jam.

Welcome to Jam session. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. Many hot topics to discuss today. It's exciting. It's a potpourri. We're going to go political. We'll talk about Cynthia Nixon.

Yes. We'll talk about Aubrey O'Day, returning to our lives. We're going to talk about business and tech. And tech. in the form of Snapchat and the way that it is dealing or not dealing with Rihanna and Kylie. Sure. Yes. And finally, we'll talk about what's happening with the Reese-Wetherspoon universe, the Risaverse.

Yes. But first, our hottest topic, perhaps of the months, maybe of the season. We have to be true to our hearts. This is number one. We debated if we should start this topic. And I just couldn't envision a world in which this wasn't the most important thing to me today. Yes. So we're just going to get right into it.

And that is the confirmation that Tat Fluck is really. real. Ben Affleck's back tattoo was not a part. It was not temporary. We're almost three years on and it's still around. So just to be clear, since this is an audio medium, he has a giant

rainbow-colored Phoenix tattooed on his back. And when you say giant, you mean full-back tattoo. This is a real choice that he made and it's permanent. Somehow we found the one thing more embarrassing than a tramp stamp, and that is Ben Afflex his tatflex. Yes. So should we

Let's give some history. Let's go back in time. I would love to do that. It's a great idea. We have, like, a pretty full timeline here, and I would like to thank Kate Hallwell, who is an editorial assistant at the ringer, and shares our passions and helped us with this research. So I feel like we and Kate are now the authorities on the back to that too. Absolutely. Okay.

And, in fact, she's the one of coming up with Tad Fleck, and I really like it. Okay. So let's start. Let's start July 2015. Yes. These are apparently the first time. that we see photographs of Ben Affleck since he broke up with Jennifer Garner or since they announced their divorce. Are they actually divorced now? Like is... I don't think it's final. Right. I also can't

believe we've been in the divorce state for almost three years. It does not feel that long. Right. I feel like they were just together yesterday. How do their kids feel? I'm still over it. Still taking this divorce hard every single day. I'm really sorry. And I also have, I forgot that I have some Jennifer Garner notes that I'd like to share at the end. Separate bubble-lated. Anyway, so these are the first paparazzi photos taken. And it's... It's not, I just have to say it's like a pretty unfortunate shot of the lower fourth of his back. Yeah. And you can see parts of a tattoo.

Yes. And it is apparent, it's new. It's not a flattering photo. And it's not a flattering photo. And also the tattoo or the partial tattoo that we can see is apparently new to the Ben Affleck tattoo watching community. Yes. So like, what's this? Yes.

They're like, oh, okay. Because he had recently, he had, not recently, but he had admitted that he had tattoos from when he was in his 20s when he was younger. that were regrettable. Don't we all? He said, I don't. I actually don't either. I don't have a tattoo.

I don't have a lot of, I don't know a lot of people who are like, I regret this, actually. This is what he's told people. I was young. It was fun and cool. I'm sorry now, but it's a good lesson decisions that have important and long repercussions. You know, I'm not sure Ben Affleck really learned that lesson about tattoos or really anything. And I say that with so much love. All I want is for Ben Affleck to be great.

It's really true. But we see, he's talking about tattoos. And as you said in 2015, you can see like the something, like the tail of a dragon or something. It's really confusing. And it's bright red on his very pale skin, which I relate to. And it's alarming. And you're like, what's this bright red on his back? Could it be real?

No, of course. It's just paint. Right. It's really elaborate tattoos. It's for a part. Of course he doesn't want to take it off. It really was so hard to apply this makeup. Fast forward to.

Yes. December 2015. Five months later. Photographs are taken on the set of Live by Night, which is a film directed by Ben Affleck. Did you see it? I watched two-thirds I wanted to play in Juliet, and I think that's all we need to say. Okay. Anyway, somehow, it's not really clear what he's wearing.

Like, he's apparently wearing some sort of hotel gown. I was going to say hotel gown. But hospitals, when I met. And we can see the full tattoo. Or I would say a majority of the tattoo. And it is a giant rainbow phoenix. It looks like one of Calisi's dragons. Yeah, there has been some speculation among the younger people at the ringer that it is a Harry Potter Phoenix reference.

I don't know. It has a, it's a truly fantastical creature. Harry Potter thing is news to me. Yeah, well, I think that once again, you just kind of like tuned out once you saw the words Harry Potter. That's fine. I just wanted to give them credit for that reference. Does the Internet support that theory? I don't know, actually.

Because once, like, I kind of took in the theory and then moved on. I'm just trying to communicate to the people listening at home that it does seem like it's a phoenix out of a fantasy novel. It's a illustration and has sort of like magical, I don't want to say quite whimsical quality, but basically what I'm trying to say is this is not like a cool phoenix. Like it's not like a cool tattoo bird. It's like bright colors and ridiculous. Listen, I don't know a lot about the tattoo space. because I'm just not a part of it. But no one has ever been like, damn, I need a multicolored tattoo and shit, that's going to look cool.

Like, I feel like all of the cool tattoos are a single color. They keep it classic. I guess you're kind of the fond design expert here, so I'm not really going to argue with that. Well, I just can't think of, like, all of the iconic tattoos, not that there are that many, but, like, it's a single one on a celebrity in color? I think there are probably some. I don't know. Again, I'm not a huge expert either. I think that it is possible to have a cool tattoo with colors.

What I'm trying to communicate is that, like, Ben Affleck didn't manage that. No. Anyway. So we have these paparazzi photographs. And everyone is so bewildered by them that there's a lot of speculation that it's fake. Because, like, we couldn't actually believe that Ben Affleck would go and do this to himself permanently. Right. It just seemed impossible.

Right. And it seems like it was possibly for Live by Night. You know, it was like a tattoo for a role. that's a little confusing because Live by Night is based on a Dennis Lehane novel, and it's set, it's like an old-timey gangster novel. And I don't really know kind of what Phoenix tattoos they were doing in full color they were doing back then. But anyway, we all thought it was for a role. Though apparently there was evidence even at the time that it was not fake. Yeah, TMZ was always certain that it was real.

And I believe also, Kate did some really. some really, really good work here. I know, that's what I'm saying. And so the pictures of him with the tattoo were taken by a photographer who's part of Fame Flynet or whatever. And so the VP of Sales at Fame Flynet told Vanity Fair that the Affleck picture was, quote,

was a little bit tricky at first because he had to confirm the ink was real before shopping out. And then, quote, usually, as you can imagine, we see pictures of Ben Affleck on set, so we assume that this is simply art designed by the makeup artist for the purpose of the movie. They only sold the image

after he found a source, one who claimed to be at Affleck's house when the tattoo artist was there. So there's an artist, a supposed artist, a so-called artist. Right. I also thought this was interesting. The photographs made $32,000, which is a lot. Right. And the photographer who's talking to Vanity Fair in 2017 about this says that like a normal payday is anywhere between $5,000 to $3,000 per photo. I have to assume a Ben Affleck photo, even a normal one is probably more than $3,000.

He's like pretty much. Seven? Yeah, high target. But honestly, $32,000, I was surprised I thought that was kind of low. That's always me. I'm just always thinking people need to ask more. 32,000 for a white guy's back. I mean, that's a lot if you ask me. It's true. I just always think everything's like $200,000. Most Americans don't have that much money and savings. I'm not saying that it's not a lot of money. I just thought that the market for this was higher. And it has become an iconic photo as we know. Oh, iconic. So somehow TMZ knows this is real, but none of us believe it's real.

Because I think it's really just like a collective unwillingness to believe this is real in late 2015. Until like the last six months, it was hard to believe that Ben Affleck's judgment could be so compromised at least in disparate moments. Right. Now I believe it, however. And this was, they had separated, but like the full Batman of it all hadn't really happened yet. Yeah. You have to cast back in time. We didn't know then what we know about Ben Affleck now.

We knew a lot. I have to say. Yeah. It's just like for some reason, I'm the problem. I'm the apotheosis of the problem. But like Ben Affleck just like gets the benefit of the doubt. Right. And I don't really know why.

What did he do to deserve it other than like write a great movie and be really charming and goodwill hunting? I mean, he's really charming. He's still even really charming. I know. Even with like a terrible back tattoo. In a way, he symbolizes the compromises that we all make when deal. with like really charming men with terrible back tattoos. I just had a face palm myself because I'm so excited how much I love Ben Affleck.

I don't believe it was real either. No one believed it was real. The whole celebrity world did not want to believe that it was real. Correct. Next. Fast forward to February 2016. Yes. Jennifer Garner is on the cover of Vanity Fair in one of the most iconic post-breakup

interviews of our era and certainly one of the two greatest Jennifer on the cover of Vanity fair breakup interviews of all time. We discussed it with in the first two months of jam session being a podcast. It's an origin story for us. It means a lot. The year of wine. The year of wine. It's a life of wine, really.

But one of the best quotes in that piece, which I'd forgotten, comes as a response to this tattoo. Because she gets asked about the Phoenix back tattoo. And here's what she says. It's so good. You know what we would say in my hometown about that? bless his heart. And then she keeps going. Am I the ashes in this scenario?

I take umbrage. I refuse to be the ashes. The I take umbrage was in response to the back tattoo. What a time. What a time. February 2016, a simpler era. So it was just a great time. That was so great.

Okay. So at this point, I'm not sure that would indicate that it was real. Yes. If Jennifer Garner is responding to it at an vanity fair. I think that just like one. right over my head, though. I was like, she's just like assuming it's real. It's not actually real, though.

She's just like, if it was, I'm not the ashes. Right. Complication. Yes. A month later, Ben Afflex tells Mario Lopez on extra TV, always a reliable source. So I suppose if he's like literally giving the quote on TV, I don't know why I'm throwing shade, that the tattoo is, quote, fake for a movie. All right. Okay.

What's his angle here? Embarrassment. I guess so. Listen, we know he went to rehab. Yeah. It's possible he got the tattoo when he was not in the clearest state of mind. That's true. Or maybe he's just going through a lot.

He doesn't like, he was not the innocent party in that breakup, I would say. He didn't have like a ton of goodwill. No. And maybe didn't want that attention. He's trying to position himself at Batman as this point. Maybe he's just deflecting. Sure. I don't think I would want the whole world asking me about a.

Technicolor Phoenix backtasue that I got in a moment of vulnerability. There's got to be like a skin graft transplant he can get for this. I think there's, but it's quite painful is what I understand. I was actually just thinking it must have been so painful to get the tattoo and lengthy. Yes. Couldn't have been in one sitting. No. It's crazy.

Right. So anyway, he decides. He starts saying it's fake. Yeah. He decides to deflect. So I guess that's where the myth came from. Definitively, yes. Yes.

I suppose that we took him out his word. Yes. Even though we had photographic evidence to negate that fact. Yes. And then last month, February 2017, Boston Globe published a photo of Baflack that's nearly identical to the original photo from July 2015. Yes. It's similarly unflattering. It captures the same portion of his back.

It's also him leaning into a car. This is just a really great advertisement for high-wasted jeans for men. Totally. Tuck that shirt in, guys. High waist of jeans, I would never wear anything but at this point in my life. I agree with you. But this is just like, this is tough. Yeah, it really is.

Okay. So very similar positioning. His style has not evolved much. And the tattoo is still visible. It is still there. It's true. Again, this shot, because of the placement of the sweater and the jeans, we're only seeing the tail end. Yes.

And you could think, oh, maybe that's a different tattoo. Maybe it really was fake, you know? It does look a little bit different, I have to say. Okay. Well, maybe it wasn't done. Yeah. That's the other thing? Might not have been done the first time we saw it.

Right. It looks a tad different. Looks it's been filled in more. In fact, it looks like there's more of it. There was. Oh, God. I just got to the full photograph. Okay, just fast forward.

We got to get it. It's like actually painful to look at it. I'm sorry. I misstated it. It was not last month. It was February 2017. Oh, okay. So there's been a year.

It's been a year. And now, since then. Last week, he's in Hawaii, filming a movie called Triple Frontier that co-stars, Oscar Isaac, who is literally everyone's favorite. Garrett Headland, who I think people like, and Charlie Hunnam, who against a lot people also like. Yeah, it's weird. This is a winning quartet. This is a force that I'd like to be on the beach with in Hawaii.

However, I would be embarrassed because I'd be with Ben Affleck, who would be shirtless showing off his gigantic motherfucking Phoenix tattoo. That is even uglier than we knew from the hospital gown photo. The full-back photograph is just... It's appalling. I am speechless in this moment. This is me struggling to form words to react to looking directly into the Phoenix back tattoo. This is the clearest photography we've ever seen of it. Yeah.

It would also, okay, I'm sorry to kind of be like a photo science person here, but... No, please do. It would seem that this has been a tattoo that's evolving. If you compare this full photograph with the tramp stamp tattoos that we have as a result of low-waste jeans and loading things into cars, there is some back that is not covered in the earlier photographs that is now covered with some blue. We didn't have this blue stretch at the bottom. Is this Phoenix on a vehicle of some kind? What is, are those, is, it looks like there's perhaps more than one dragon. To quote the great Starsky and Hutch, two dragons.

There also seems to be... FYI, Amanda's holding her screen up really close to her face right now. There also seems... I'm just trying to... I mean, I'm naturally enhancing. There also seems to be like a peacock feather floating. It definitely seems like it has grown. Is it eating something?

It might be. What is it eating? I don't know, but I definitely think it has grown in size since it first came into our awareness. I'm pretty positive. So it is a permanent... a tattoo that is evolving. Yes. Wow.

He, and not only is it not, not only did he lie to Mario Lopez. Yeah. He's been adding to it. Well, that's sad. I wasn't expecting to be this sad at the end of it. That's indicative of some larger issues. I got to be honest. I don't know, Amanda, this is appalling.

I really wish that we had some full on back tattoos to look at from, from earlier. I also just want to say, pop sugar was my. source for this originally. Yes. And they've somehow kind of like, I think they've like buried the original link that the story that had them. Because I'm pretty sure they broke this or like at least Oh yeah, certainly. Their link was the first one that I saw. Yeah. And I don't see the original post, actually. Oh, so you think they maybe got some feedback? I think perhaps Ben Affleck was not happy with their post. I bet that's true. And now you just see the Oscar Isaac one. Interesting. I think on the same link, in fact.

Interesting. Where these pictures used to live with Ben Affleck, I think, is now. Well, we will share some places that you can find the actual photograph in the show notes. And when I click on this UK link, oh my God, he had people take this down. When I click on this headline, Ben Affleck's colorful tattoo really need to be seen to be believed, Pop Sugar, UK, March 9, 2018. Yeah. I get a 404 page. Sorry, you do not have permission to use this page.

Wow. Wow. Oh, my God. This is a live discovery. We got pissed and had these photos taken down. Do you think it's him or do you think it's photo rights or some sort of paparazzi thing? Because these are all paparazzi photographs on the beach. Maybe there's some sort of...

The authorizing ones live, Amanda. On this March 18th post. Okay. So number one, as we learned from last week's real-life stricane effect by Barbara Streisand, that's not a good strategy. No. So some strategies we've learned for Ben Affleck. Number one, don't lie. No, yes, don't lie.

Number two, don't call everyone and try to. to hide your giant multicolored back tattoo because everyone's going to pay more attention to it and also like, there is no hiding this thing, Ben Affleck. Have you looked at your back? Definitely no hiding it. I've got some unkind thoughts about it. I'm going to save that. Listen number three. I think we should take a little more time thinking about permanent decisions as opposed to just keep adding to your back tattoo. That's just my thought. I'm going to do some follow up and I will tweet about if these pictures have been taking down in other places. Okay, that's great.

Put it in our little show page. At Julia Atletman, I will be tweeting. There will be tweets. There will be tweets. Before we move on to a whole new topic, let's talk about Jennifer Garner. You've got some thoughts about it. So have you been following Jennifer Garner on Instagram? A little bit, yeah.

I saw the selling of the cookies. Right. So in addition to being a good person and doing good works, which is a thing Jennifer Garner does now. And I don't mean that with Eddie Shade it all. Shout out to Jennifer Garner. She has also been kind of rebranding herself as like a Instagram food blogger. Oh, yeah. I have noticed that. She loves Ina Garden. She was on an Ina Garden episode a few years ago. She spent a recent birthday with Ina Garden. Like, respect. Me too, Jennifer Garner. But she now is just kind of cooking on her own. Oh. And will, like, make kid-friendly recipes in under two minutes, which, like, I don't have kids, so I don't really need them. But one thing she keeps talking about, every food recipe uses, like, blue corn chips as the temptation.

and like the food devil that you need to get away from. So everything is like, make this instead of blue corn tortilla chips or blue corn chips and you'll be happier. And I'm just like, what happened? Is she getting paid to do that? I don't know because it's not a specific brand and it's not, she's not endorsing anything and she's not mentioning a specific brand. It's just like blue corn chips have ruined Jennifer Garner's life. And I want to know what happened. Weird.

I really don't know. There's no explanation. I've gone pretty deep in the Instagram. to try to figure out... Maybe she's against the corn lobby. Maybe that's it. Or I was kind of like, if you're a Hollywood celebrity does like your junk food start at blue corn chips, which are like reasonably healthy snacks for the rest of us, that's my best

explanation is that just it's like she can't conceive of something unhealthy than blue corn chips. So that's what she's citing. It's weird. I can't remember if I read this or someone told me about a conversation that she like started visiting a new nutritionist and like a new fitness lifestyle. That's literally every week. I know. There's just like a blog post about so and so who has a new nutritionist and lifestyle.

Yeah, sure. I do feel like she's like doing some kind of like holistic rebrand. Sure. Holistic personal refresh. Like that's not eating blue corn chips. Like that's not surprising to me. No actress who has to be in front of a camera is eating blue corn chips. It's just the specificity and the persistence of this particular comparison.

That's all. It's a weird one. Okay. That's what I got. If you can solve the mystery of the blue corn chips, please at me. I'm at AK Dobbin. We're going to end this chapter, but never closed the book on the ongoing saga of Garner Affleck. Let's move on to some other topics.

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Cynthia Nixon, running for governor in the great state of New York. This had been rumored for a while, but in a way that was kind of like, you know, Twitter's always trying to like draft Oprah or someone to be president. Sure. And I think we have kind of anured ourselves to those suggestions because of the current political climate that we're in. Yeah. And then this one turned out to be real. I know. And I was like, eh, I just, why does the governor have to be famous?

But my mom, who's as left as they come, she's fired up about this. So I had to reconsider it a little bit. And then Justin Charity also wrote for The Ringer about it as well. and I'm talking myself into it. Yeah, you know, I think that there is obviously, there are a couple things that are specific here. Number one, it's governor and not the presidency. Sure.

So, like, in the sense of, like, start local and try to get some experience. Governor is slightly more local. More local than president, that's true. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's also kind of like a long tradition of celebrity governors. This is not the first time we've heard of that.

And then I do think Cynthia Nixon has been, if not, if she hasn't, like, served in office, she has been, like, quite active politically for the last couple years. So you at least kind of know who she is and what she is standing for if she doesn't have a particular level of government experience. Sure. So it makes a little more sense. And I kind of feel like that's why people are willing to get for the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. She has been involved in, like, also school issues and very invested in the subways, I was hot, you know, hot topic. Yeah, I mean, also that was a very good opening.

Her opening gambit was to take the subway, be late, and then blame Andrew Cuomo, who's the current governor, for the never-ending subway problems of New York City, which is like the number one topic for anyone who lives in New York City. Totally. And I will say, she already, because she's an actress, like, she has, like, the theatrics down for running for office, which many politicians do anyway. So at least it's like less of a secret. She's in a relationship with the woman, which I also think just makes her a different kind of candidate. Yes, and has been very outspoken and active on LGBT issues. So I think it's been interesting to watch people respond to it. I was a little more skeptical than everyone else.

Same. It doesn't really matter because we don't live in New York anymore. Sure. You know, I think it's interesting to watch. I don't be an interesting test case. I don't believe there's no way that she's the last celebrity politician. And I think we're going to get a lot more of these in the next couple of years. and it will be interesting to watch what works and what doesn't and what people demand of these

type of candidates and what people are like not having. Sure. And I do kind of, you know, at least, I mean, she seems more qualified than certain people. Sure. I don't really get at that. Absolutely. Yeah. I agree.

On the topic of politics. Yes. On the other end of the spectrum. Oh, yeah. Aubrey O'Day of Danadee King came back into our lives this week because Don Trump Jr. He's getting a divorce from his wife, which is sad particularly for their kids. and for whatever. And it turned out that he had an affair with her from 2011-2012 after they met on the set of The Apprentice.

And all of this Aubrey O'Day information has just come out. Yeah, do you want to share some highlights from the Daily Mail article that really inspired you? I would. You want to just read some bullet points? I think it's an all-time Daily Mail article, to be honest. I'm not joking. I know. I wasn't.

I was just appreciated that. Literally, here are the bullet points. You know how they do their headline and then they give you a tidy summary up top. Yeah. Here's what we got. I don't need to do you read anything more than the bullet point. Headline. Are Aubrey O'Day and Donald Trump Jr.

playing footsie in bed with one another in this photo taken during the 2012 affair? Bullet point number one. Aubrey O'Day posted a photo in March 2012 of her feet being covered by the feet of another man. Next. My quote, my babe is protecting my feet from bunyan attacks. True love feet, she wrote. There's a lot there. There's a lot there.

Keep going. Next. A side-by-side comparison shows that the feet are very safe. similar to those of Donald Trump Jr., who she was allegedly having an affair with around that time. We'll come back to that as well. Next, Don Jr. tends to hide his feet in photos despite his penchant for the outdoors with most of the images he posts cut off at the ankle. What great research. Next.

A report notes weekly on Wednesday revealed that Vanessa Trump allegedly called O'Day with her own children on the line asking her to end the fair. That's awful. That's awful. That's a sad bullet point. And finally, O'Day, meanwhile, was under the impression that Don Jr. was separated and ready to leave his wife, according to sources. All right. True love feat. That's not a thing. That's number one. Next. Also, Bunyan's developed the attack. Like, what? Bunyan's developed the attack. Aubrey O'Day. Also, just who in any sort of, quote, romantic situation is like bunyons are on the mind. That's really, that's upsetting. This is very upsetting. Next. Next. A side-by-side comparison shows. So the Daily Mail literally did a side-by-side comparison. Use their slider technology. Incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. Which Andrew Gidaro brought to our attention.

Yeah. And, you know, it's funny. This is not the first time I've seen internet content studying celebrity feet. Okay. When there was that alleged photo of Kylie Jenner at CVS. I saw some posts of people trying to determine if it was really her by looking at her feet. Okay. And comparing to other feet photos.

This is a really weird burgeoning celebrity internet detective field. Yeah. Can I ask you some questions that I had while listening to this? Do you think that you could recognize a picture of your own feet in the wild? Definitely not. I feel like if you gave me like a lineup, you know, and I had to pick out of... We should do this at the ringer. The number.

I could probably pick out of five. And I think if you did eight, I'm screwed. And that's my own feet. I've never thought about it before. That's because I just don't think about my feet that often. Right. Except, like, are they, do they hurt or not? Right.

The most I think about how my feet look is, like, when I'm putting on a pair of sandals and I'm like, is this too gross? No, is this too gross to go out? Right. Like, is it okay that I show my feet to other people or is it not? Which in general is a thing that I wish more people, specifically men who are fliplops, thought about on a regular basis. Definitely, whether or not you're having a fair with a former member of Daly Cane. Anyway, I think probably one out of five I could pick. One out of three I could pick.

I don't know if I could do it I really have to think about it I haven't considered it but I don't know If you asked me to like Affirmatively describe my feet in any way Couldn't do it

Couldn't do it Me neither Like their size 10 What else do you need to know Like the little The pinky It definitely like hides You know

Under the other toes I don't know I guess I can do it Based on the nails I don't know It's a really weird thing But I'm wondering Yes

Do either of these Or do both of them Have a foot fetish Because I mean sure They've got it right They're like, I don't know. Because also, the Daily Mail implies that Donald Trump Jr.

goes out of his way to keep his feet out of photos. I know, but like that's crazy. But how many photos of you do you have with your face, man? Because he's an outdoorsy person, he would suddenly just be like, hey, look at my feet all the time. You know, the Daily Mail is offensive a lot. And I tweet about a lot. And people will, like, I hate myself for referencing my own Twitter so many times on this podcast. Great.

But there's a lot of problems of the Daily Mail. And I recently encouraged me that they are neither right nor left. are just anarchic. And this is a great example of it. It's like there's so many implications and, like, tacit suggestions here without them coming out and being, like, saying, he's a foot fetish or he's weird or something. Yeah. And this is how you, this is how you make a mess. And this is how you stir the pot.

And the Daily Mail, it's successful. Yeah. It's happening right now. So I would, one might argue that, like, foot love as a hashtag, what was it? True love feat. One might argue that true love. feet as a hashtag with a photograph on Instagram of two people's feet was storing the pot all itself.

Well, Aubrey O'Don didn't know that he was in a relationship, but I guess she could take him down the pictures after she found out. But again, this is 2012. So can you tell me a little more about the song she wrote about him? Yeah. So she had an album that came out around then, like a solo album. Sure. And didn't we all?

Let's play a second of the, let's just play like 10 seconds. I'm sorry in advance for everyone, but I'm curious. Okay, so this is from the deal. This isn't page six, one of my trusted sources. Sure. And they say that Aubrey O'Day didn't have one, but two songs allegedly directed at Donald Trump Jr. There was the song DJT and then she was a 2012 remix of Gautier, somebody that used to know, which appears to been written about him. No. Per page six, O'Day tweaks on the lyrics to make it about someone having an affair with the married man. Quote, you said that was the reason for your pain, but you were scared to ruin your feelings. family's name. Your wife's the only one that's glad that's glad we are over. Wow.

This is elite shit. It's honestly, these people are, how did it take this long? How did it take this long? I am mad, I am disappointed in TMZ. I am disappointed in us, frankly. I know. How did this go under the radar for so long? I don't know. It's a really good question. We're going to have to follow up and find out how many streams this song gets over the next couple of Oh, yeah. That'd be great if her solo album goes to number one. Yeah, because that would be insane and also incredible. Yeah. Wow.

All right, moving on. Next topic. Oh, it's Business Corner. It's Business Corner. Business Corner. Yeah, so I wanted to talk briefly. There are, wanted to talk about Snapchat, which is an app that neither you or I really care about at all, but it is quite popular and very valuable. And there have been two recent incidents in the news where Snapchat, you know,

Snapchat has not really run afoul, but Snapchat has been derided. Snapchat has lost a lot of money. Yeah. Because of things that they did that upset celebrities. So the first one was the redesign that Kylie Jenner didn't like. And so she was like, she tweeted that she was down with Snapchat. Yes. And then their stock fell 7%.

As a result of that. The other was far more offensive. The other was far worse. And it was that there was an advertisement on Snapchat that they say it's a third-party advertiser. And it was a game of would you rather? And it was like, would you rather slap Rihanna in the face or like punch Chris Brown? Yeah. I'm not going to have.

I'm not going to have and also like don't really care about the specificity. He'd ever except it was just like. That's pretty much true. Yeah. It was like suggesting domestic violence against both of them and playing on like a former horrific incident. And then because Rihanna is Rihanna. God bless her forever. I love her more and more each day.

So on Instagram, which is her preferred platform, might as well, just in why she responds to the ad and I'm just going to read it. Now, Snapchat, I know you already know you ain't my favorite app out there, but I'm just trying to figure out what the point was with this mess. I'd love to call it ignorance, but I know you ain't that dumb. You spent money to animate something that would intentionally bring shame to domestic violence victims and made a joke of it. This isn't about my personal feelings because I don't have much of them, but all the women, children, and men that have been victims of domestic violence in the past, and especially the ones who haven't made it out yet, you let us down. Shame on you. Throw the whole appology away, which is just, God bless Rihanna.

Like, pitch perfect, and still very much of Rihanna, she gets everything exactly right. And Snapchat, apologize. They cut ties with like the so-and-so third-party advertising. which is like a running theme this week. Seriously. But their stock sank again by 4%. That is the correct response. And we're 100% on Rihanna's site here. But I have just thought it was very interesting, the effect that honestly, kind of two social media posts

can have on one of the largest tech companies bottom line. They're really beholden to big names. But that's how they get big also. Right. They need and like when they lose the celebs, they're in trouble. Yeah, and it's really fascinating. And I would argue in this case, you know, you have feelings about Kylie and I don't really feel one way or the other about A, their redesign or B, Kylie's effect on it. But in the instance of Rihanna, this is actually the power of celebrity for good and regulating where basically no one else has figured out how to keep these apps and these companies in checked. And Rihanna can do it in one Instagram story. And it's amazing. And shout out to her. And also, surely, we could figure out better ways to do it so that Rihanna doesn't always. have to come to save the day. But I'm impressed and grateful for Rihanna saving the day. Me too. And I, she's, she's just been doing good for good in this world. And it's just,

it's kind of, it's fascinating. Like, one thing it's amazing. Celebrities can do everything right now. It's like that's, it's really, really, that's kind of the turn of it. For better and for worse. For better and for worse. It's fascinating. One thing about Rihanna that I admire is that she's just figured out how to grow up while being famous and it's really hard to do. But she has like, actually grown up. Like she has taken control of her career. She's developed a personality that I didn't know she had when Ponda replay first came out. Sure. You know, I know that people love Fenty Beauty.

Yeah, she's an extremely successful businesswoman. Yeah, it's really cool. And she is, like, thoughtful about the moves that she makes. And it's just really hard to develop a personality when you're already famous. It's very true. And she's not a great job of it. She has. I can't really think of anyone comparable to that?

No. Can I share a personal anecdote, which is I have a friend who will remain unnamed who recently went on an ayahuasca trip, I guess? Is that what they're called? She took ayahuasca. and went on a bunch of trips. And she said one of the revelations that came to her was that Rihanna is like a goddess or some sort of divine being that revisits the earth every 200 years in a new form.

Oh. Made sense to me. I was kind of like, yeah, I could see it. Tracks. Sure. Yeah. I'm good with it. Makes sense.

Yeah. Okay. Last topic of the day. Big Little Lies, back in production, people. Big Little Lies is back. And also Reese Witherspoon essentially owns television now. Yeah. She owns at least one quarter of television.

It's really dope. Yeah. I like it. It's great. So I want to just briefly update everyone on what has happened since we last spoke about Reese Witherspoon. In addition to Big Little Eyes, season two, she has the Morning Show Show with Jennifer Aniston. Love it. Yeah.

Which is on Apple. She just bought Little Fires Everywhere, which has been a bestseller. Yeah. I have not. I haven't either, but I know many people who have. And she's making that one with Carrie Washington. She is on the press tour for A Wrinkle in Times. That's right.

That's right. With Oprah and Mindy Canling. Did you watch them on Corden imitating each other? I didn't. Reese was like, I'm basically the cruise director when we're all on set and want everyone to have fun, make sure there's activities. She seems really sweet. And she just seems like naturally inclusive, which I think people might not assume about her. Right.

Which I just think is really awesome. I watched her with Adam Ripon, which was another great Olympics moment. Yeah. They just became best for. friends, apparently. She's living life. She's out here. She's kind of like the mayor of Hollywood. It's fascinating how fast it's happened. Oh, no. I love it. Rees, we support you. We do. We don't. We support you. Ben Affleck, we want the best for you. Make better choices. And Cynthia Nixon, good luck. Thanks to everyone for listening. And thanks to again to Hotel

Tonight and Florida Coffee.