The Press Box - Beyoncé’s Vogue Cover, Plus a Weekly Dose of Celebrity Yachting | Jam Session (Ep. 509)

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins discuss the details of Beyoncé’s new Vogue cover (1:10). Then, the two give an update on David Geffen’s notorious summer yacht, discussing the celebrity politics of being photographed and seen with questionable public figures (18:52). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the only booking app you need. And now it's time for jam session. Welcome to Jam Session, still the official or perhaps unofficial, depending on who you are, aka if you're not one of our moms. The unofficial slash official podcast of summer, I'm Juliet Lippman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. Hi, Amanda. Hi, Juliet.

I'm going with official. Okay. Official podcast of summer then. You know, it's like the secret. We're going to make it so. Sounds fantastic. Let's make it so indeed. We're going to cover one of our favorite topics, David Gavin's Yop.

But first, we got to talk about Beyonce. Beyonce. Beyonce, baby. She's on the cover of Vogue. She's back in our lives. Should she talk about her essay or the photos first? So she's on the September cover. Let's talk about the photos.

She's photographed by Tyler Mitchell, who's a first-time photographer for Vogue, and also somehow, impossibly the first African-American photographer in Vogue's 100-plus-year history. Is it for the cover or for the whole magazine? The cover. But still. Few. It's over 120 years Vogue's existed. That's like honestly sick.

How do you, you kind of have to go out of your way to make that a thing. Not to accuse anyone of anything, but like you have to go out of your way, if not to not hire black photographers to like meet them. You have to be like, I'm cool with whoever comes past my transom. Like that's just actually like that's shocking. I agree. I have no defense or explanation for Vogue magazine, nor do I work there. It's baffling. It is.

It's like you kind of can't wrap your head around it. Yeah. 123 years and 12 issues a year? Yes. Oh, my God. Well, they had a lot of opportunities. Well, thanks to Beyonce. I used to be extremely critical of Beyonce. And I still am like a little dubious of some of the praise and adulation she receives. However, I found this as told to, as told to Clover Hope for Vogue, written by Beyonce, incredibly moving. Like profoundly so, in fact. Yeah, so let's talk about a little bit about how this all came together. It was rumored ahead of time. There were several rumors. We can talk about them. One of them being that Beyonce had, quote, unprecedented control over. this issue of Vogue magazine that she helped pick the photographer, helped design the shoot, put the whole thing together herself, had a lot of say, which we've talked about this before on jam session, but when typically you are reading a magazine cover or an interview with a famous person,

that famous person did not pick the photographer, they did not write the story or the headlines, or decide what to where they are executing someone else's vision. One note on that that I also think we can come back to is I'm fairly privy to like how athletes book covers, how athletes operate when they do media. And for whatever reason, I find that athletes really get to call a lot of the shots. And I mean like specifically male athletes. Yes. And I think there's a real difference still to this day between how male cover subjects get to define the terms of their agreements with like magazines and websites versus how women do. Like when's the last time there was like a fight between a male celebrity and a magazine and I can about like how they were portrayed like a legit fight because like obviously the Lena Dunham one kind of like she wasn't mad at Vogue but there was a lot of like discussion about those photos and how they were retouched of her and I just think there's a lot because of also just the way that women's appearances are focused on more so than men's.

Yes. There's a lot more like kerfuffle around that and it's just sort of like kind of amazing that maybe like until Beyonce Vogue still had this power. I still has it. Maybe she's just an exception. That's really true. And I think especially the September issue in Vogueland, which this doesn't matter if you don't care about Vogue, but just put in some context. The September issue is the most important issue of the year.

They made a whole documentary about in a winter of putting together the September issue, which I recently rewatched because it's on Amazon Prime. And I was having a birthday, and that's what I treated myself to, was rewatching the September issue again. Still really fascinating. But you must be a Gracehead. Yes, of course. I mean, I'm both. Grace, Grace Connington and Anna Winter, we know my feelings about Anna. But the September issue is typically 800, 900, 1,000 pages. It's that really, really thick print issue. And they put a lot of effort and the ad team puts a lot of emphasis on it. So to give Beyonce as much control as they did is significant. It's really Beyonce's in charge. And I have to say, the results are. great. Yeah. I think these photographs by Tyler Mitchell are really beautiful. They're slightly more,

they're slightly less stylized than is what you get from a, say, Grace Cottington shoot or an Annie Leibowitz shoot. But, you know, Beyonce always looks beautiful. I really like the photographs. And as you alluded to previously, instead of the traditional cover profile, there is, and as told to, basically kind of a diary slash essay piece of writing by one Beyonce. It was so different that I was like, are these excerpts or is this the whole thing? Right, right, right, right. Because it really is she's just talking. And it's very clear that she chose the topics.

And she had some things that she wanted to talk about. And she talks about them. And I don't want to minimize close. So it is as told to Clover Hope, who's a great journalist. And I don't want to minimize what it takes to make someone comfortable enough to talk this candidly about a number of issues that we should talk about. So all credit to Clover Hope. but it really is like Beyonce is just talking to you. Yeah.

And talking to you pretty intimately and without a lot of interference, which it's, you know, from Beyonce, that's really significant. Yeah, absolutely. She also makes a point about having a lot less makeup on. And she does, it is like much more natural. I mean, she looks stunning. And like, if this is what she looks like about makeup, like, wow, I'm so impressed. But it's pretty amazing. I also think that like this just feels like such a piece of the work that she started doing with Lemonade.

And that's like pretty cool. Like even this feels like really open and honest in a way that we haven't gotten from her before, let alone most celebrities. But it feels like an extension of a project that she started a few years ago. And I really respect that. I think the extent to which her artistry is matched by her work ethic, which by all accounts is like just astounding, is pretty cool. And one of the reasons that both the photos and the piece are really cool is because they like speak to that. Like it's like deliberate and it has a lot of like thought put into it. And like it didn't just like happen overnight.

Like there's like hard work. And like I'm so sick of the portrayal of celebrity as being easy. Absolutely. And she's prepared and thoughtful. And she's doing this because she has something to say. And she's really considered what that means, which is very different from, you know, anyone just getting to hop on the internet and like share their thoughts. There were some people who expressed concern that a celebrity was just handed a platform or a cover without any sort of intermediary. And it's like, do whatever you want.

And, you know, quote, what about the journalism? Which I think for someone less compelling, maybe I would feel that way also or was someone who didn't have honestly, who hadn't earned it. Also, no shots at Vogue, but like I don't think of that. I don't think of them, let alone the September issue, was like a bastion of hard. journalism. That's all true. You know, it sets a precedent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I get all of it. I think the writer Laura June tweeted something that I'm just going to read it because I agree with her. She said, I'm so glad to have this Beyonce essay diary of her thoughts rather than a profile. I can't say that would be true for everyone, but dot, dot,

it's Beyonce, which, again, that's essentially how I feel. Yeah. It's kind of similar to also when Gwyneth Paltrow decided to talk to the New York Times. And they did an as told to about Harvey Weinstein. It's like that was a story that they had reported and really controlled through reporting. And then a major turning point in that story was when Gwyneth Paltrow did her piece, which was, I'm sure, not on her own terms completely. But, you know, when she chooses in New York Times, like, there's also like, I'm sure, like a kind of negotiation of how it's going to go. And it's not without her saying this is how it's going to, you know, this is how it's going to happen. Absolutely. I actually thought that you were bringing up the other Gwyneth Paltrow article

in the New York Times, which I thought was a fascinating example of not quoting someone that you spent a lot of time with, and I thought it suffered for it. There are some people that you just, you want to hear from. And if you, if they have something to say and they give you the time, you got to get out of the way a little. That's not always the case. And journalism, holding people to accountability, sure, yes, et cetera. But part of the celebrity journalism gambit is to recreate the experience of spending time with the person,

to give a sense of the person. And sometimes that involves just presenting the person. Yeah, absolutely. And also that, you know, Beyonce was going for like an unvarnished, like, straightforward presentation. Yes. Across the board here. Yes. And she really, she nailed it.

I don't know. I just, I found her talking about her body so moving. Yeah. Should we go through the highlights? Yeah, sure. I found her talking about her body particularly, like, meaningful and impactful. Because, first of all, when famous women who are celebrities often don't talk this way, And again, like, especially living in LA, like, you're so aware of the subsect of people who, like, just spend all of their time getting into shape and looking a certain way. And they look great. And it's their only job so they can do it. Yeah, exactly. And Beyonce says that. Like, it's basically a job. Like, when she decides she wants to have a six-pack again, she'll work really hard at it and she will. And I really, like, admired the openness of that she talked about how she is currently, how that's changing. And, like, how that's, like, a noticeable difference and, like, coming to grips with it. Like, like, I think that there's so many changes that have into your body specifically.

after pregnancy, but not that I would know. But, like, just in general as you get older, and it's not really discussed. Like, you're supposed to just, like, still look great. I actually blame the housewives in some part for, like, contributing to these myths because all those women are, like, older, but they, like, obviously spend so much time trying to get in shape and shout out to them. But I just found that, like, transparency, and that is a real change in, like, most dialogue that any celebrity has.

And she talks about how it's a change for her. She said that that was not how she responded after having her first child and that she was working through it. She also gives the immortal line, but right now my little Fupa and I feel like we were meant to be, which I think, God bless. I mean, you know, how many of us will be saying to that to ourselves forever. I think also along this lines, she speaks pretty candidly about the very difficult pregnancy and birth with the twins, which women don't usually do. And women also aren't often given the space to talk about those things. She's been, with Jay-Z, they've been like pretty like open and like leaders in like sort of de-destigmatizing miscarriage and tough pregnancies.

He brought it up first, right? And I'll Watch the Throne. I think that he's addressed it first. Yes, or one. I can't remember if it was that or Watch the Throne or kind of a single later. Yeah, but it was like several years ago at this point, which is like pretty incredible. I mean, there's just like each section had sort of like a wow, like good for you if we're speaking about it. And then obviously there's an ancestry section.

Yes. Which is like probably the most thorny. Yes. But she talks about how she was descended from a slave owner and like how she learned about that and coming to terms of it. Like that is certainly an experience that I could never understand. And I really, really admire her for, you know, for like not only disclosing it, for like wanting it to be part of her narrative and like coming to terms of it. Yeah, absolutely. And she, you know, she also talks about how that amazing Coachella performance came together and why it was.

so important for her to incorporate so much black history and symbolism into it because she is aware that she has this platform. And she wants to just change the way that we talk about things and how these things are discussed and who can talk about them. It's really admirable. You know, I was thinking about this on the way over because we talk about Beyonce a lot on this podcast. And you have some conspiracy theories, but otherwise I'm, I know that you really admire Beyonce. both as a celebrity, but, you know, she has talent. She makes good use of that talent. I admire her immensely.

And we talk about her a lot. And as do a lot of people. And I was also thinking simultaneously about this recurring theme that we have on Jam Session of, we got to be careful about how much we deify celebrities, what we can expect of a celebrity, not confusing, say politics and celebrity. but to have limits and to understand what someone can be to us. And I was kind of like, do I need to examine my Beyonce-ness of it all? And I think the answer is no.

I think that I was just kind of like she is really an inspiration. And you don't say that. That's such a corny-ass thing to say. I'm really aware of it. But she is aware of her power. She is using it in responsible ways. She is not claiming someone's entire life, but using it to start other conversations

and to make other women feel good about themselves in ways big and small. And I think that's just the best case version. Yeah. I also remember going to the tour for Lemonade. And I obviously was an amazing performance. It was at the Rose Bowl. It was such a cool spectacle.

I did not have good seats. And I still thought it was really cool. And then I didn't really like the part where she started speaking and it was very like sort of spiritual. And I just thought it like, it wasn't as well executed as the rest of the show. And I just don't think that she is, like, necessarily a great speaker for what a wonderful performer she is.

And it's been really, really cool watching her use her art and, like, these magazine moments to have a message and to convey it in a really deliberate way. And, like, maybe she doesn't like speaking. Like, maybe she also doesn't like to give interviews or she doesn't like, you know, maybe like, I don't know. And I don't mean that to be like, maybe it's like a backhanded compliment. I don't mean it to be. But it just was like a weaker part.

part of the show when the rest of when she perfects everything else like the the dance month numbers all the outfit changes she she had freaking like the like pools on top of the stage to do freedom the song with tendrick Lamar like it was so cool and I just thought it was like not as strong as a presentation as the rest and this is like just the like strongest most impactful meaningful celebrity like presentation for lack of better word that I that I can think of and I used to be really critical of how I thought like Jay-Z and Beyonce got like so much adulation and love and I wasn't sure they deserved it because I was like, well, we haven't like heard from them. And we've heard from her in really, like, poignant ways over the last three years that have just made me change my mind.

And I think that even if she was always like this and I was underrating her and was like too, it was like mean, I think like the ways that she's like grown up and like managed to figure out how to transition from being like a, in a girl group to being a solo artist to then being like a like one of the most famous moms is really amazing. Yeah, absolutely. And she talks about that a bit in this interview. as well, that she's learning, that, you know, she looks back at herself now in her 20s and she was learning how to navigate these issues. And there are some things that she's learning and learned in something she's still learning. It's true that we have kind of like watched Beyonce, quote, grow up, which sounds like a ridiculous thing to say because Beyonce has always been this avatar of like female strength and perfection and was just kind of like that

pretty instantly. But she was still in her 20s navigating a marriage, navigating, growing a business all very, very much and in the public eye. And she's done it so well that maybe we don't think about that. Yeah. But again, she's really impressive. I'm, we're lucky to have Beyonce. I really feel that way. I feel the same way, too. And I really didn't used to. I've really come around. She's not that she, not that she needed me or it matters, but I do, I do find it impressive. She also, I just think is so much prettier in this natural look. I like, I just think she look stunning, but good for her. She doesn't really need my approval one way or the other. I love the photos. Do you think they were taken at the Malibu home? Maybe. One thing that I've noticed

about the last few years of Beyonce is she's such a strong connection to place. She even mentioned it, like on the run too, performing in Berlin was really mean for her because of Jesse Owens. And obviously, so much of lemonade was tied to New Orleans. And then I think these photos, like you said, they're less stylized in terms of the portraits, but the local. locations in some ways are like way more noticeable, even if you don't know exactly where she is. Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that they were in any way not deliberate or not. Oh, yeah, of course. Like, again, there's a lot of skill that goes into this.

Stop taking, you know, pictures of me random places, please. Put your phone down. Yeah, unless you're really skilled. It's amazing. Shout out to Beyonce. Their tour seems fun. Hope everyone's enjoying it. I really want to go.

It's in September at the Rose Bowl. Oh, it is. Yeah, that's cool. Rose Bowl's a great place for a concert. I've still never seen a concert there. I've only gone the one time, and it was really good. Yeah, I enjoyed it. Great job to Beyonce.

Do you have any Vogue thoughts in general? Yes, so the other rumor that was alluded to, that I alluded to earlier, was that this would be Anna Wintour's last issue of Vogue. And that was pretty widely reported to the point that Condénais CEO issued a denial of it, And that she said that she would be working at Vogue indefinitely, which, by the way, is not a concrete answer when you actually read through it, read through the lines. But anyway, yeah, everyone seemed to think that this would be her last issue. Right. And that had been ruined for a year so far that does not seem to be the case.

It's, it would have been a good last issue to go out on, I suppose. Of course. I don't know. We'll see. Who knows. Good luck to Anna Wintour and to everyone else. This concludes the deep and meaningful portion of jam session. Yes.

And now we need to move on to an important summer update, which is the beginning of the low-end portion of this podcast. Yes. Yacht season, people, still happening. The yacht of influence is still sailing through the Mediterranean. Unbelievable. Okay. David Geffen two days ago posted an Instagram from his yacht,

which we've discussed, and it featured the following people on it. Oprah, Julia, Marguerle, is in her husband Keith Leberthall, who I could talk

about it for a long time. Steve and Daryl Roth, though, and is spelled incorrectly. Lloyd and Laura Blank Fine. Definitely want to hit that. Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson. Truman Hanks,

one of his sons, Bradley Cooper and Sean. Is that Sean Penn? It's unclear. Bradley Cooper is like almost unidentifiable in this photo as well. Which one is he?

I think he's behind David Gaffin. Oh, I see. So he's hiding. I get it. I suppose. He's something. This is really something. I don't even really know where to begin with it. So just to refresh her, the last time that we talked about David Guffins, yeah, which was two weeks ago, it was Carly Klaus and Josh Kushner, Michael Hess and Mishan No Nu, Paul McCartney and his wife. Yes. It's a real, this is the place to see and be seen this summer. Bruce Springsteen was also there. Oh, yeah.

With his wife, Patty. Also, by the way, the name of the ship, in case you've forgotten, is the right. Rising Sun. And in many of David Geffen's Instagram captions, he just refers to it as like, Rising Sun, Rising Sun and Copry, Rising Sun on a clouding day. Like, he just is, he fucking loves his yacht, and so do I. I wonder, if David Gavin invites you on the yacht, are you allowed to ask, like, who else is going to be there? Here's what I was going to ask. I don't think that you're allowed to. I think you're probably allowed to know, and you have to assume that David Geffen is sort of, it's like having a dinner party, right? You've got to be monitoring the this situation a bit. But I think that you probably, I don't know, how much money do you think

you have to have to ban someone else from David Geffens yet? Interesting. To ban someone. I think somewhere above Bradley Cooper, but below Oprah. Okay. So Oprah can ban some, I think over probably could ban someone from New York's yet. Not that he would be invited, but I feel like someone on the level of like Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio could ban someone, but like Bradley Cooper couldn't. Okay. I feel like my real question is, are you allowed to go on the yacht and not be on the Instagram? Well, I think, I think no. I think it's like, I will do what I want.

You're on my rising sun. But how long until these people are aware of the fact that being photographed on David Geffen's yacht puts you in a certain group of celebrity that's maybe going to have some backlash on you? Well, I think the Lloyd Blank Fine thing is tough. Yeah. That's tougher than to me, Josh Kushner. Okay. I think Lloyd... I think neither are good.

I think the Lloyd... I think that the Lloyd Blank Fine Association here is going to be a blight on some supposed progressives and some supposed liberals. I just think that's a tough one to stomach. I would agree. I guess they have deniability. It's not their yacht. Sure. They didn't know who is going to be there.

And it's not, I mean, I don't know. It's not... But I think... It's tricky. It's a tricky one. It's also like, it's not to say they don't like, they all probably knew him already anyway. Right, that's my thing. It's actually not being photographed with him. That's the problem.

It's just once you're in the photo. I know. It's like you're on some yacht. I know. It just reinforces so many of the, of like the stereotypes about Hollywood, too. Yes. Like this is like so funny and silly and I enjoy it. But I'm also just like, oh, right, this is why people hate Hollywood liberals because

then they just like go on the yacht. It's out of touch. Hang out with anyone who's on their level of wealth. And they just like keep it moving. The Bernie bros are like, yeah, these fucking guys. They totally are. Yeah. But I'm just like, it's so easy to not have these people be angry at you.

And it's by not letting, by not posting the picture, David Geffen, of everyone on the yacht. I guess he doesn't care. I mean, that's the other typical Hollywood of being like, I need to make sure you know that all of these people were on my yacht. Right. And that's like the price of entry. Yes. So you probably do have to pose for the Instagram. Right.

Right. Right. Yeah. So it's a, it's a. Would you go and agree to be on the Instagram? Yes. Yeah, you would. I would be lying if I said no. Right. Just love luxury, Amanda. I also love luxury. It doesn't seem like a fun crew, though. Would you go?

I don't know. And I know that that sounds like I'm lying. I know that sounds like the biggest lie in the world because no one loves fancy vacations as more than I do. And this would be a really lovely vacation in the Mediterranean. But here are some of my concerns. Okay. Number one, as we've established, this podcast is now about how I hate photographs. But like I really, really don't like photographs.

And I wouldn't want to pose and be on this Instagram. But also, we've also talked about a yacht just being, I prefer a hotel in general. Yeah, I agree. Right? But then also you're on a boat with a lot of strangers. Yeah, it's true. I don't like to be somewhere where I can't just, like, escape me by myself. So this would be tough.

I just want to say, I just noticed that one of the comments on here is from Wendy Murdoch, and it says, have the best time, DG, and then five hearts. Oh, that's really good. Ironic. By the way, a slight detour while we're talking politics and stuff. celebrity. We were chatting about Succession and the ringer slack today. Yes. And Alyssa Barra's and Act was saying she wanted a little bit more Wendy Dang and the Marcia character. Yeah. And that inspired me to go to YouTube and look up the time that Marcia that Wendy

Dang defended Rupert after he got the foam pie in the face in front of Parliament. The MP that was questioning him at the time. Yes. Louise Mench. The one and only. Listen, really? I'm pretty sure. Stop it. I'm pretty positive. That's incredible. I know. I want to watch that television show. I know. Wow. Yes, it was wild. Okay. I sent it to Chris Ryan and I was like, this looks exactly like Louise Mange, but it can't be her. And he was like, well, she was in parliament then. And I was like, I'm pretty sure it's her. That's amazing. I know. So anyway, this is just a, this is a, this is a portrait of the 1% and why the 1% is hated.

It really is. Regardless of who you give your money to. It's also like, none of these people's lives have changed in any way except for like by their own making in the last like 20 years. That's really true. It's like really, the day. David Geffen updates are just like so unbelievable that the people he gets to come together. But like when you really dig into it, it's just like, oh my God. It's a it's undercover. It's all I want to say. The David Geffen yacht, when it comes to come back into, into the port, it'll be sad.

It's really true. Can I say one more thing about the photograph? Of course. Just a tremendous number of bare feet in this photograph, which like I guess that's what happens on a yacht. But a lot of men in bare feet just bearing all on Instagram. Oprah's wearing obviously extremely expensive slides, but they're so ugly. They have like a really chunky heel. They look like they're practical, like, so you don't slide on the deck if it's wet, but they're so ugly.

You won't catch me criticizing Oprah. She does look great in her, like, her caftan. Yeah, and she's having the most fun. Juliana Margoleys has a bad rap, just so you know. Yeah. Like they basically- Everyone knows that. They ended the good wife and reconstituted as the good fight to get rid of her. I know that.

You think just because I didn't watch every episode of the good. good fight that I don't know that Juliana Marqualee has a bad rap and that she and Archie Punjabi would not appear on screen together. Even for the last scene. I watched the last scene. I saw the camera angles. I know. So I can't believe she got invited. Does David Geffen not know that she's disliked? Well, maybe she's only mean to people who she feels to be beneath her in some capacity. Maybe she's really nice to Oprah and David Guffin. She probably is. Yeah. Her husband, Keith Lieberthal, is just like a civilian. He's just a lawyer. Yeah, he's really cute, though. He's really cute. Good for Julianne Marley's. A hot lawyer and also a younger man for her, which I love. Um, this is, would you rather be with this crew or the Carly Klaus crew? I would rather be with this crew.

This crew, of course, you got Oprah and Tom Hanks. And Bradley Cooper. Oh, wow. That's, well, I, I wonder, I, Julianna Marley's and Bradley Cooper together at a dinner table, I just seems really, really tense. Um, Notable Irene Shakes not there. Just want to leave that there. It's a good point. Just no Irina. Yeah. Oprah seems like just so fun on a yacht.

Like I think that she'd be my ideal yacht mate. I agree. Can't think of anyone better. That's definitely why I'm picking this group. Yeah. Also, Tom Hanks and Reed Wilson seem like they probably get really like liquored up at like sunset. They seem very fun. Yeah.

Also like shout to them for bringing their son. They co-produced Mamma Mia too. So they are, they understand the spirit of the summer that we're going for. The official movie of summer. to go along the official podcast of summer. This has been Jam Session, our summer update. Thanks so much, everyone. Thanks to David Gaffin and Beyonce.

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