The Press Box - Bill Walton on David Halberstam’s “The Breaks of the Game”

Episode Date: July 19, 2021

Bryan Curtis is joined by NBA Hall of Famer Bill Walton to discuss David Halberstam’s book “The Breaks of the Game,” about the 1979-1980 Portland Trail Blazers. They discuss Walton’s relationship with Halberstam, his experience playing with the Trail Blazers, and why Walton has not yet read the book.  Host: Bryan Curtis Guest: Bill Walton Associate Producer: Erika Cervantes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Emmy Award-winning producer, actor and comedian Larry Wilmore is back on the air, hosting a podcast where he weighs in on the issues of the week and interviews guests in the world of politics, entertainment, culture, sports, and beyond. Check out Larry Wilmore, Black on the Air on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, media consumers. Brian Curtis of the Ringer here. This is the Press Box podcast. My partner, David Shoemaker, is on assignment today. Now, from time to time, we do podcasts about what I call the great books,

meaning great non-fiction books. We had John Crackauer on the podcast in January to talk about Into the Wild. And since we're in the middle of the NBA finals, I wanted to revisit an NBA book. The NBA book, you might say. It's the Breaks of the Game by David Halberstam. Now, the breaks of the game is about the 1979, 1990 Portland Trail Blazers, a Blazers team that won the NBA title with their center Bill Walton three years before. But when Halberstam found them, they had lost their mojo.

But this is David Halberstam we're talking about. He wanted to do something way more ambitious than your usual season with a team book. So he starts out with this big swaggering Halberstamian thesis about how the NBA is in decline. And even more interesting is all the reporting he did. He writes a lot about race in the NBA. He's very good on the relationships between the players, what he called the collision of humanity. But the most striking thing about the breaks of the game is the writing. Halberstam's passages about the lives of Blazers players like Kermit Washington and Billy Ray Bates

are among the best sports profiles I've ever read. They show Halberstam's ability to get close to players and their families and then just write the hell out of the material. So I want to understand what being interviewed by David Halberstam was like. Halberstam died in a car accident in 2007, so I brought in Bill Walton, who was the center of that championship Portland Trail Blazers team. and by the time Halberstam was reporting this book had left the blazers for the San Diego Clippers, not happily, and was recovering from foot injuries that would define his career.

Now, Bill Walton is now an announcer at ESPN. You know him as that as a great American character. But here's the interesting part. Bill Walton gave David Halberstam the information he needed to write this book, but Walton has never been able to bring himself to read it. Why not? Here's Bill Walton on David Halberstam's, the breaks of the game.

I'll start here, Bill. How'd you first meet David Halberstam? Right. What a privilege to be able to talk about one of the greatest friends and most important influences in my life in David Halberstam. And I got to meet David through Jack Ramsey. Jack Ramsey, just this brilliant human being. And to try to put a label on Jack Ramsey is so narrowing.

But Jack knew all these people. And he was a very curious guy, Jack was. He loved knowledge. He loved information. He loved science. He loved sports. He loved people. He loved everything, really. And he took his job as a coach, teacher, parent very seriously. And so when he was always out in the world and he would come across these most interesting people, he would build, his network. And I was lucky enough to play for Jack Ramsey, who was the coach that made me the best player that I ever was. And we had this perfect team in Portland. And it was just a dream for me, a dream that I wish had lasted forever, but it didn't. And so then when it didn't last and when it fell apart, that's when I met David Halberstead. Because David was interested in the story of our team. He knew Jack and David loved our team and loved all the people on the team.

We had this, a very electric and eclectic group of people. And so these guys were just, it was this magnificent band of happy people. who were playing basketball in a most glorious place on earth, Oregon, with these remarkable fans who were just so fun and full of life and joy and optimism. And really all the things I look for in my life. And then David saw this. And then he said, I think there's a story here. And so as he was putting the story together for the breaks of the game,

game, which I haven't read. I've tried to read it many times. I'm a huge David Halberstam fame. And I've read all those other books. And some of them I've read more than once. But I have started the breaks of the game, Brian. I'm going to say 10, 11, 12 different times. And I just can't, I can't get through. It's too sad. You know, I read a lot of sad books. I love the storytelling that David Halberstam has been a huge influence in my life on. There's also been a lot of other writers in my life. More recently, say Timothy Egan, Daniel James Brown, and then Hampton Sides. But earlier on, it was James Mitchner, and then earlier on, after that, it was James Mitchner.

and then earlier on, after that it was Irving Stone. And their abilities, and there's lots of other rights. I'm a book guy. My mom's a librarian. And so we grew up in a household with out a television set. First, for financial reasons. Second, for my mom just said there's nothing on television worth watching. But my parents, greatest parents in the world, but not into sports.

And so David, who I did not know before the breaks of the game, I read all his books, and books that had shaped me and it changed me here, the making of the quagmire, one very hot day, the unfinished odyssey of Bobby Kennedy, Ho, the best and the brightest, all these different books that, you know, that just came regularly into my world and life because those were my interests. And one of the endless things that I love about David's writing is that for him, it's about people. And that's what I think too.

And that's what I love. I love history told through the eyes of the people who lived it, who made it, and his remarkable ability to capture the story, the essence of the human beings. and I have no idea what it says about me in the breaks of the game because it was just too sad. I mean, I got enough sadness in my life. I try to find the bright side of the road. I try to see what love can do. I try to be able to walk through the mission and the rain and ring the chimes of freedom.

But David, when he came to me through Jack to work on this book, look, I was still very much a stutterer. Now, when you're a stutterer, you're a stutterer forever. And I still am a stutterer, but I have learned how to speak to some degree. At that point, I had not yet met Marty Glickman, who was the master teacher in my life in terms of learning how to speak. Now, other people are still searching for the master teacher who can teach me how to stop talking. But Hardy was the guy who worked that lesson of this is how you learn, Bill.

Now, I had all these master teachers in my life, including Jack Ramsey, including David Halberston. But David was this really cool dude. I mean, he was big, he was rugged, he was physical. I'm not sure that he was athletic himself. But, you know, having grown up there in the New York area, haven't spent some time in Connecticut, you know, yonkers, and then to go to Harvard. And then his life journey, because he was a guy who was always willing to go to where the action was.

And for him to leave Harvard and go take his first job down in Mississippi, I mean, that, this was not a guy who was looking for an easy road. He was not looking for, you know, sitting around. and just sharing a good laugh. I mean, he ends up in Mississippi. They basically run him out of there. And then he goes up to Nashville. And he's right there, and this is in the late 50s,

and he's right there at the start of, you know, of what we know today is this incredible movement of humanity to try to make the world better. And his time spent there was the foundation for the book, children. And when I read the children, you know, and the children came out in 99. And so that would be 1999. And so when that came out, man, that was one of those books. And you know, I read on, I used to read on airplanes. But they have changed the comfort level in the seats on airplanes, with the exception of jet blue mint.

And so now I watch videos because it's just extremely uncomfortable with the poor lighting and the poor seats to try to read a real book. I mean, I can read on my computer some, but I read all the time. And when I was reading the children, I'd be on these airplanes. That's when I was broadcast in the NBA and San Antonio and the Knicks in 99. and the rise of the Lakers with Shack and Kobe and Phil and all. It just passed through Michael Jordan and everything. I'm reading all the time and I get to the children.

And the children is an epic book in terms of length, in terms of depth and breadth and storytelling and all the different things that go into making something that's truly great and will change the world as it did and still does to this day. But I'd be on that plane. man, I'm reading this book, the children, and I'm just like crying and the tears are just running down my face about people around me and their seats are saying, are you okay? Do we need to call a doctor or something? But it was quite embarrassing.

So when David ultimately got to me in the early 80s when he was doing breaks of the game, which came out in 1981, excuse me, got my dates wrong there. Because what happens, Brian, when you get old, and I'm 68 now. So this was, breaks of the game came out 40, 40 years ago. Yeah. And so what happens as you get old, you remember what happened? You remember where it happened? You remember who was there, but you can't remember when it was. Was that two weeks ago or was that 25 years ago?

So this was a book that was written, you know, put out 40 years. years ago and it takes a long time to put a book together. And so David was here at the house where we've lived now for 42 years at our house now in San Diego, which is my hometown. David had come for the first time to the interview to the house here. It was all set up through Jack and it was all good. And I knew who he was and that's one of the reasons that I agree with. to do the interview because I did very few interviews because of my self-conscious nature of my

stuttering problem, my shyness, my reluctance to ever really open up to strangers. And so he's at the house and we spend a very nice day, afternoon, you know, long time all around the place. And, and we're, you know, we're bouncing off, you know, different planets throughout the universe here and all the different things that we're talking about. And he's got his notepad and he's writing it all down. And, you know, he's just, you know, very professional guy, very smart, very inquisitive, very thoughtful. And also very kind. You know, he was, he was just, he was trying to get the story, you know, a story that had not been told.

And so at the end of the day, he says, you know, okay, Bill, that's, you know, I don't like my interviews to last too long, because the subject of the interview wears out after a number of hours. And so, you know, as he said, okay, I mean, you know, we can reconvene again whenever you'd like, because I like you a lot. And, you know, I had read all these other books, you know. And, you know, one of the incredible ones, the Powers That Be, which was the 1979 story of, you know, of the huge media companies in our world and life. Now, the world of media has completely changed.

But in those days, his focus on CBS and the time with Henry L.A. Times and the L.A. Times and the Washington Post, it was just absolutely fantastic. And to have lived a lot of that stuff because I was, you know, starting. I'm going to say starting in 1967, everything I did in my life was reported. I mean, literally everything. Every day I'd be in the newspaper or I'm on television as the subject. And so when he comes out with the powers that be and his analysis of life and the powers that be and how that all played out.

And I try to remember one of the great, you know, there's always so many great lines when you have it, When you have a master writer, a master teacher, their ability to use the language, to research, to get the stories, and then to turn a phrase. And that was David Halberstam. And his ability to inspire me to try to be better. And he was talking about, I think about the Washington Post, and there was a major divorce in a family that was involved in running the post. I can't remember the specifics, but the line could be summed up something like this, that everybody was jostling for a position surrounding the two parties that were getting divorced, and they were so, so intent on being on the winning side of the divorce.

So it was just one of those moments that stood out to me. And then when David is now at our house here where we still live, and we're out by the pool when we were saying goodbye in the jacuzzi and he was asking me all this stuff and we were going to move forward with it with further interview sessions but also a friendship, a friendship that I saw, that I crave, that I wanted and that I hoped would build from that that because I'm a fan. I'm a fan of a lot of things and I'm a real fan of David Halberts. I'm a real fan of great authors and great books because they're so interesting and they're so

they're so difficult to put together and to try to recreate something. But, you know, he was clearly at the top of that world and the top of his game. And so as he was walking out, he said, hey, Bill, would you mind if I went and interviewed your parents? And I'm not sure anybody had ever asked me that before. I mean, maybe in passing, you know, but my parents. zero interest in athletics, zero interest in sports. They're not athletes or sports enthusiasts themselves.

They don't live that world where you just get up and go all day and playing ball and doing exercise and getting going. That's just not their world. My mom was a librarian. My dad was a social worker, an adult educator, and a music teacher. And so I said, you know, sure, that's fine. So I call my mom and dad. And they just live 10 minutes from here.

Now my dad has now passed away. my dad passed away in 2004, which is 17 years ago. And so this is in the early 80s, 40 years ago. And so my mom's still alive. She's 94. She lives in the same house. And every day I go and visit her. And she and, you know, I just, we just relive all the great moments and talk about the

stories of our lives and how great she was. as a mom, as a grandmother, as a great grandmother. And so I called her my mom and dad. I said, hey, man, there's this guy, David. He wants to come and interview you guys. And they said, sure, send them over, no problem. And my parents just the finest people ever. And so that was the last I heard of it until my nightly phone call. Because literally my entire adult life, every night before I go to bed, I call my parents and just to make sure they're okay. And also to just kind of fill them in on what's going on, you know, because they're wonderful, wonderful people.

And so when I got them on the phone late that night, they said, Billy, you didn't tell us that this guy, David, was David Halberstein. For the first time in my life that I can remember or really sense, that my parents were proud of Little Billy. They were the greatest parents ever. And they were so encouraging and so nurturing and so supportive. And all the different things I was doing. But I never shot a basket with my dad.

I never played catch with my dad. I never, you know, I saw him run one time at the church picnic and fell over laughing. And, you know, that sports just wasn't their deal. They loved books and music and art and literature and singing in the church choir. My mom loved knitting and crocheting and then the radio. And that was their life. And that was my life until I found sports in 1960 when I was eight years old. And I had this incredible remarkable coach, my very first coach, just absolutely over the top,

who volunteered at our elementary school for, 59 years of his life, 59 years every day. And then after this first coach who just inspired me and showed me how much fun sports were, then I had Chick Hearn in my life. That was the voice in my ear. And then after Chick Hearn, a couple of years, I found Rocky, my first coach when I was age, 1960. I found Chick Hearn.

I was nine, maybe 10 in 1962, when Chick Hearn. when Chick joined the Lakers. And then every coach and every teacher that I had was a John Wooden disciple. Because John Wooden and Chick Hearn were omnipresent in every person's life in Southern California who was trying to live a life of sports, which I was because I love that. I love the competition, the physical nature and the fighting and the elbowing and the yelling and the screaming. And with basketball, I could practice.

myself. So I had all these incredible forces in my life that were inspiring me, that were guiding me. And then so when my parents, who, you know, then lived through the recruiting process and the media process and college scholarship and the championships and being part of UCLA. And this is incredible, incredible success story of the teams that I was on. But, you know, they just kind of, yeah, okay, okay, that's nice. What are you reading today, Billy? What are your teachers teaching you in school, Billy? So now fast forward.

And so they finally show some acknowledgement of real pride, man, Billy knows David Albersdam, right? And so again, now fast forward another whole bunch of years. And there's this legendary political cartoonist for the L.A. Times named Paul Conrad, who was this, now Paul has passed away. But he was just this overwhelming presence in all of our lives in Southern California and throughout the syndication that the L.A. Times was able to do. with Paul Conrad's cartoons. And so I got to know Paul and his wife Kay over the course of my life. And so Paul one time he calls me up and said, hey, Bill, I'm coming to San Diego.

I got a show down there. And Kay and I are going to be there and we'd love to connect. I said, fantastic. Will you please come to dinner at the house? And so Paul Conrad and his wife, Kay, came to dinner at the house. And I invited my parents as well. because my parents were the ones who had turned me on to Paul Convent. The newspaper in our house when I was a child growing up,

and throughout my dad's entire life was the L.A. Times. And so we have this wonderful dinner with Paul and Kay. And then we're just so fun and the bantering and going back and forth and the storytelling and the education that was just being passed on to other generations. And then after dinner, we changed from the dining room into the living room where there was a coffee table and couches and chairs and things in a fireplace. And my mom very concerned that we did have a TV. We might have even had two TVs in the living room at the time because they didn't really have DVRs then. And I had to watch a lot of games.

And so after dinner, we were in the living room. and I had strategically placed on the coffee table where I had asked Paul Conrad to sit, he had published many books about his coffee table compilation books of his career. And so Paul sat down and we all sat around him and he was holding court and telling the stories. And then he sees these books and he picks him up and he opens him up. And he just starts flipping through him and he starts telling stories. about all the different cartoons, you know, how this came about, the ramifications, you know, when the president would call up the ownership of the L.A. Times say,

I got to have Paul Conrad's head on a platter now. And the head of the L.A. Times would say, no, Paul Conrad's our guy. And so all the incredible battles that he fought, the battles that we thought we won all these years ago. but we're still fighting them to this very day. And so Paul and Kay, they've got to go. And so they leave first. And then my mom and dad, when they're leaving, they stop at the front door. And they looked back at me.

And they just were beaming. And they just said, Billy, that was really, really cool. So those two times, David Albert, Tam, and Paul Conrad, those were the time I got some credit and some recognition from my parents. I'm the luckiest guy in the world because David, you know, David then, you know, after Nashville, and, you know, then he says, okay, I'm going where the action is. I'm going to the Congo. Yeah. I mean, how many people in your life do you know? I mean, you're a journalist yourself, Brian. How many people in your life have just stood up when they said, you know what, I'm going to go to the Congo and report on everything that's going down there? Oh, my God. And then he goes to

Vietnam. Oh my gosh. And then he comes back for the for the for the for the civil rights battles and action and fighting in the streets and on the bridges and everything. And then he ends up in Poland. Oh my gosh. When that's all going down. So what a life. And then all the different subjects, all the different people, all the different stories that he's been able to tell. And it was just absolutely incredible because our lives intertwined. because I was on the road constantly in my playing days. I was on the road constantly in my broadcasting days. And but let's take a moment and step back a little bit

because when, you know, I've had a lot of health trouble, right? And a lot. Orthopedic health, you know, that's my challenges. And so I've had 39 orthopedic operations. And David was around, you know, and I was having a lot of, you know, three, four, five operations every year. And so he would read in the newspaper or hear on the radio or see it on TV that I was going to have another operation. And he would go down to his local bookstore.

And he would just have a shopping cart and drive and, you know, push it up and down the aisles of the bookstore and just be pulling things off the shelves. And then when I was in the hospital, there'd be a big box. delivered of all these remarkable books that I would have never been able to find. I mean, he was like my personal librarian. And then here was a time when I was totally unable to play. And the doctor said that, Bill, you'll never play again. You have to stop. You have to sit down.

If you don't, if things don't change, Bill, in a quick and timely manner, we're going to have to cut your foot off. And I'm like 28 years old at the time. So I make the decision to go to law school. And so I'm planning on going to law school and kind of looking around. You know, I'm a San Diego boy to this day. And San Diego's greatest place on earth. David calls me up when he finds out I'm going to go to law school.

He said, hey, man, you got to go to Stanford law school. And so I said, what for? He said, believe me, trust me. Stanford's the place for you. You got to go. And so David made the first call up there for me to Jack Friedenthal, who was the guy in charge. And then he passed me on to Jack Friedenthal, much to Jack Friedenthal's dismay. I mean, Jack loved life, he loved sports.

You know, he loved young people. He loved law school. He loved Stanford. Just an incredible guy, Jack Friedenthal. And they were not going to let me in. But then I badgered him. You know, I used Coach Wooden's tools to overcome the adversity, including the persistence, the perseverance, and the discipline.

And I finally got in. And, you know, they were very reluctant to let me in. And then after a year and a half, you know, I got better. I had this pioneering experimental surgery that had never worked on anybody before. And I got better. and I dropped out of law school to go back to play basketball in the NBA. And the doctors were mad as comedians. They did not want me to play.

And Jack Friedanthal was mad as committee. I mean, he just looked at me with those arms crossed, you know, just like, I knew we shouldn't have let Walt Nied here. And then when I was trying to play again, I was playing a little bit. And it came crystal clear that it was time to move on from Donald Sterling. And so when I made that decision, David jumped right back in and he said, Bill, the Celtics. The Celtics are for you. And so he said, just call Red Hour back and just tell him that that's what you want.

And so I did. And I got on the Celtics and then when I, and then after the deal was done and I was actually going to go there. Because, you know, I'd only been there in a hotel or I don't have. been there with the Grateful Dad. I never thought about living there. And so David calls me up, said, Bill, you got to live in Cambridge. Don't let them talk to you. Don't let them talk to you into moving out to the suburbs. Bill, you got to live right there in Cambridge as close to Harvard Square as you can. So Bill, here's the number of a realtor who's really good in Cambridge. And so he set that all up, and we just found the perfect house, a block and a half from Harvard Square. And it was just a dream come true.

over the course of our lives, because he was a fan. He was a fan of sport and a fan of life, and he loved to be at events because that's where the stories unfold and that's where the ideas come from. And so, and then when I could no longer play and I was trying to become the broadcaster, you know, David was, you know, he was always on tour with some sort of book promotion giving speeches and everything. We would have dinner everywhere. And I would go to hear him speak. He would come to hear me speak. He would critique me in the broadcast world. He would make all these introductions and the dinner parties that I got to go to. He always knew the most interesting people in every town. He knew the best restaurants in every town. We were at the

theater district in New York. We were all over, you know, in the 90s, it was all Chicago all the time with Michael Jordan. And David, he was coming in and out of town on a constant base. as I was always there. And then, you know, in Paris, when Michael was, you know, playing with the tournaments over there, the exhibitions and how fantastic it was, wherever we went, you know, it seemed like our paths crossed. And we got to do things all together. And then it was really fun because the children, not the book to children, but our children, and his lone child, Julia, they became friends.

They're basically of the same age, Julia. And then our second son, Nathan, he went to Princeton. And so as soon as David heard that Nathan was going to Princeton, David was on that phone to Nate. And he became a mentor and a supporter and a guide and a teacher to Nathan. And he made all these introductions to everybody at Princeton for Nathan. and how that has changed his life. And then to see Julia as she has progressed in her life.

Now, David died in 2007. And we'll get to that in a little bit. But Julia, she got married in 2010. You know, when, you know, she went to Brown for college. And Nathan was going to Princeton. And so right when she left Brown, she went to become. a public school teacher in the Teach for America program. And so this was just, just angel of mercy giving her life to make everything better for everybody else. And the

relationship that the children, our children, his lone child, developed and built. And then in those days, we, you know, we were going to concerts all the time and around the country because, you know, I'm on the road all the time. And so David would come to the show. And so David would come to the shows, come to the Rolling Stone show, whether this, come to the Grateful Dead shows, whether this, come to Bob Dylan and Neil Young. It was just absolutely the time of our life of my life. I can't speak for David, but it was just always one of those things that that I looked forward to so much because he was so interesting and the variety of the different books that he wrote, but always with the emotional, personal attachment to the lead

characters that he decided were the most interesting. And whether he was writing about the guys rowing the boats on the Charles River, the amateurs. And so he takes me down there, right, and introduces me to all these guys on the Charles River. And I get in a boat and I'm starting rowing the boat, man. And I'm singing row Jimmy, row Jimmy to these guys who were trying to go to the Olympics and everything. I'm just trying to stay alive there. And then he, you know, and then he does the books about the Red Sox and the Yankees and the Cardinals. And over the course of my life, I got to know all these guys from just events and promotions and deals going down. And then the way that David was able to bring them all to life.

And it was just really, really remarkable because just, you know, in the book about Michael Jordan, and then all the different things that you have, the way that he kind of changed from writing all these political history books to alternating with a, you know, these political history books, six, seven, 800 page, you know, epics that, you know, that you could spend your whole life trying to write and read. And then he would come up with these short couple hundred page sports books that, you know, because he loved sports and he loved, he loved competition, and he loved the emotional commitment that it takes to be the champion and the way that he was able to analyze, not only just through the research, not only use the English language.

And, you know, but he also saw the sadness in life, the sadness that he, lived himself personally when his brother was killed in Washington, D.C. And, you know, his brother was killed in a home break-in by a burglar there. And it was just absolutely awful. And the devastation of personal loss that he lived through. And that, how that impacted him, how that changed him. And always, always in that situation of trying to move things forward to a better place. And so as we remained close over the years and we kept doing all these different things and our children were all together, you know, in a constant basis and sharing their life stories and what they can do to carry on.

And, you know, and as my life has been defined by meteoric rises to the top and then catastrophic health crises, which just take me right down to the bottom and have to start over. again and learning from all the different people that he wrote about and how they, how his subjects were able to continue on through the incredible adversity. I mean, my life looks like a piece of cake compared to all these people out there that he's been writing about. And so then, you know, we're talking and we're talking and we're going through everything. And, you know, I'm now the broadcaster and I'm on the road constantly. He's writing books. But I, you know, one of the the great challenges for a writer, for a journalist, you know, for a specialist, you know, like yours, like you, Brian.

I mean, you've got this incredible career and you bring out all the stories. But to identify and to find the story, I mean, that is such a challenge. And David was just brilliant on this. So I'm always bugging him. Like, what's your next book? What's your next book? You know, he's like doing it all. And it's all coming together for him.

and he's going through all these books, the education of a coach with Belichick and the teammates, the friendship story of the Red Sox guys, the firehouse after 9-11, and then the war in a time of peace with Bush, Clinton, and the generals, and the way he would just take these seemingly iconic figures

and expose them. And just the way, you know, he would lay it out. and really set the record straight because it was fantastic to be able to read the true history and to see what kind of human beings some of these people actually had devolved into. And then, so I'm bugging them. What's your next book? You got a lot of short ones to your, what's your next big book?

He said, Bill, I got it. I'm working on it. And so this, but it never came out. It was just like, oh, my gosh. And then, you know, he had told me what the story was about. He said that it was, you know, it was about the Korean War. And, you know, little did I know that when the book actually came out, that it was the history of the world from America's first civil war in the 1860s until the present.

and this is remarkable book. So he calls me up, and he said, Bill, you've been bugging me for so long about this Korean War book. I'm calling to tell you that I just turned it in. I just dropped it off at the publisher's house. Hyperion was the publisher, which at that time was part of Disney, which was, which owns ESPN, which I was working for. And so it was, you know, this book gets turned in. And David says, Bill, I'm coming to California. I'm coming to California to speak at Berkeley, you know, at Berkeley, to the journalists,

you know, to the next generation. I do, you know, he does that a lot. You know, there's an incredible giving, caring, loving, selfless human being, like so many of the others in my life. And so he says, Bill, come on, let's connect in California, you know. And I said, David, I'm going to be in the East Coast when you come out here. I got a job back there for a while. And so he said, okay, but this had happened all the time because our paths were always crossing,

and we were always both so busy. We connected when we could. And so David flies to California. I fly to the east. We pass in the air in the night. And he gets to Berkeley and he gives a speech to the students there. And then in 2007, the speech is over. And one of the students in the class drives him across the Dumbarton Bridge on his way over to Stanford, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Atherton, wherever, he's going to interview Y.A. Tittle to get to the next book.

Because, you know, all the great ones that I've been exposed to, Brian, in my life, they're all about getting to what's next. They're not into sitting around and having people say nice things about them. No, man, they're into work. They're into making a positive difference and directing the course of what's going to be next. And David was just right at the forefront of that. Ramsey, brilliant, Woodlandi Wilkins, Red Hourback, Casey Jones, all these remarkable coaches, Jerry Garcia. Let's get to work. Let's what's next?

Where are we going? And so they're driving across the Dumbarton Bridge. They come into East Palo Alto. And they're on their way to go see Y.A. Tittle. And there's a car accident. And David sitting in the passenger seat gets key-boned in the car. And it's 73 years old and in perfect health. And so full of life, so full of goodness, so full of kindness, so full of knowledge, so full of everything good, dead on the spot.

And things were never the same again. Now, Hyperion worked really hard to take the coldest winter, which was a masterpiece. They're all masterpieces, but as you get older and you're in that position, the masterpieces just keep getting better and better. And that was David Halberstown. And so Hyperion, they knew they had something. But they couldn't do a book tour because David was dead. And so what they did was that all the cities, you name the city, and there was an event,

and they identified one of David's friends to give the speech in that town. So here I was, Little Billy from San Diego. And the event, they called me up and they said, hey, will you do the book presentation of the coldest winter in San Diego? And we did it at Warwick, which is this incredible book. store in downtown La Jolla, where we've just done so many great events. And this place, Julie runs the whole show there. And the night we had there, oh, my gosh, there was people standing out in the street. I mean, it was like a, it was like a Grateful Dead concert. There were so many

people there. And it couldn't even get in, but they stayed outside in the hope in the chance that they may be able to hear just a little bit of the sound of the content. And it was one of toughest speeches I gave because, I mean, I was crying the whole time. It was just so emotional for me because how much he meant to me and how many different things that we had done together. And over the course. And now, you know, they went ahead and they finished that football book about YA Tittle. Frank Gifford stepped to the front. And he took care of that to close that story. because they had all the notes and, you know, and David was a meticulous researcher. And he was just one of those guys.

But, but Giff, you know, he stepped to the front and he said, I'll take care of this because, you know, he was in the game and everything. And, you know, Frank Gifford just absolutely awesome. But for me to be able to have the life that I've led, to be able to know David Halberstam to, for me to be able to say, hey, I'm with him. and all the different lessons of life that I have learned, not only from his books, not only from reading the words, but to see him, to watch him,

to witness his relationships with total strangers, with other people, with adversaries to people that he knew, that we knew were criminals, who were evil, who were war profiteers, who were, guilty of cronyism, guilty of war crimes, and to be able to stand there and look them in the

eye and speak truth to power. That was David Halberstam. And I've tried to do whatever I could to continue what he started and what he just lived his whole life. Because when he died, I told myself, Brian, I said, I am going to live the rest of the of my life in honor and tribute to my friend and this great giant of a human being, David Halberstam. And to be able to do that. And when I talk to my mom about whatever I'm reading, she says, oh, well, Billy, remember the David Halberstam books that you read all the time. And remember the firehouse and the children and the powers that be and the coldest winter.

Yeah, Billy. And then he came over to our house to see us and talk to us about the best and the brightest because that was the world that my parents lived in. That was the parents. That was the world that my parents hoped for me. And I just hope that I've been able to do my parents proud because they have given me, along with David, those folks have given me the greatest life that anybody could possibly ever hope to have. When you say you couldn't bring yourself to read the breaks of the game because it was too sad,

was it sadness because of the years that he's writing about in your life? Is it sadness at the dissolution of the Trailblazers? What? Sad at the breakup of the team. Mm-hmm. Because those are my guys. and that was my team, my time, by everything. I mean, Maurice Lucas, greatest teammate that I've ever had,

so important in my life that we named our next born son, Luke Walton, in honor of Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins, Johnny Davis, Dave Torging, Bobby Gross, Larry Steele, Boy, Neal, Corky Calhoun. But it wasn't just the players. It was the place. Oregon, that's where I wanted to go. That's where I wanted to, you know, to stand up and say, hey, man, this is me.

And then the Blazor Maniacs, you know, the fans there are just, just awesome. And the way, not only the way that Maurice Lucas made me the best player I ever was, not only did Jack Banji make the best player I ever was, not only that Lionel and Johnny, Dave was the fastest backboard in the history of the NBA. And Bobby Gross, no matter who he was matched up against, Bobby Gross, forget the statistics. Bobby Gross outplayed everybody, everybody he ever was matched up against. He was the perfect team mate and the perfect team player. And then just to have so much excitement and so perfect.

And the way we played, the style, the fast break, the team game, the back. the back doors and the ball movement and the speed and the quickness and the full court man-to-man fast and the fast break. The fast break that would just come at you like the Missoula floods coming right down the Colombian gorge, man. And those fans who would just push and drive and just be so full of life and energy and enthusiasm and all the things that you look for. And we knew there was nothing that was.

going to stop us and then in the blink of an eye it was over and that's why I'm so sad and that's why I can't read it because that was what I really wanted and we had it but it was just so free so free and darned you know I spent my life Brian trying to be a part of something special. And that that blazer time, that that was very, very, very special. And then, you know, so I start reading the brakes of the game,

and it just comes back to me and just how sad. Because, you know, you know, when I've learned over time that, you know, the great stories are built around dilemma. And then that dilemma is addressed,

through courage. And the inability of me to get by, to survive, to sustain, it's tragic for me person. And it's something that I cannot get back. Fortunately, fortunately the people, you know, so many, so many have passed away. David Halberstam, Boris Lucas, Jack Ramsey, William, Harry Glickman, Larry Weinberg, Robin Jones. A lot of the guys who are right there in the thick of everything are no longer here.

But fortunately, Lionel Hollins, Johnny Davis, Bobby Gross, Dave, and we're working on it. We're working on keeping it going. and God bless the people in Oregon, man. They have always treated me better and nicer than I deserve. I found one passage when I was reading the book that's about you at UCLA. Can I read it to you? You'll have to excuse me if I start crying. It's not going to be sad, I promise.

It's just a really, it's a good example of David's ability as a writer and him trying to capture the duality of Bill Walton's existence at UCLA. Here we go, Bill. Thus emerged the Walton of the twin cultures. First, the finally disciplined, totally sacrificing and dedicated basketball player, immensely respectful of immediate authority, singularly purposeful about what mattered to him, quite willing to obey all the rules and procedures of his craft. And second, the Southern Californian, who embraced the counterculture, let his hair grow as

long as his coach would permit, smoke dope, moved openly among peace protesters, the tallest demonstrator on campus, a friend and fan of the Grateful Dead, the Walton who was public in his criticism of American racism and who answered his phone by saying, impeach the president. That's one sentence. Love the way he constructs those sentences. And that's what I look for in an author. someone who can someone who can deliver the message

in a creative, imaginative, inclusive way. And when you think back to all the other writers that I mentioned earlier along with David, that's what those guys were able to do. David, at the top, though,

his ability to put so much into one one of the things about the Grateful Dead is, you know, You are an educated, you know, scientists, journalists, facts, knowledge, all this kind of stuff. I mean, that's what your life is. So just think of that timeline from A to B. Now, in the world of mathematics, in the world of science, between any two points, any two points, no matter how close they are together, there's still a space in between.

Now, the Grateful Dead, they understood that space between. And they were able, with the six or seven different musicians and the use of technology, they were able to fill that space. That's what David Halberstein did with his typewriter. Because remember, this was not an age of computers. David died in the year that they came out, that Steve Jobs came out with the iPhone. That's how things have changed. What we take for granted now with our word processing capabilities, with our research capabilities.

David was doing this all on a typewriter with a notebook. I would go to his speeches, right? And his speeches were, you know, he talked to all these different groups, students, business groups, philanthropic groups, advocacy groups, civil rights groups, you know, Amnesty International, ACLU, all these different groups that he would speak to. And he had this folder, he had this folder that he would carry around and he'd walk up to the podium, right? And he would look out over his glasses. And he would look at the crowd before he started talking.

He knew who was in the crowd. This was a guy who had great sense of anticipation. And then he would just start turning the pages in his folder. And there must have just been little reminders of what story to tell or what phraseology to use in the way that he would seemingly effortlessly deliver this remarkable. message that made you believe that the battle to get to tomorrow was worth the effort it was going to take. And when he would tell the stories of being in the Congo, for the time in Mississippi, where the owner of the newspaper came into him and said, hey, man, what you're writing in our

newspaper is not going to fly here in Mississippi. And then when you went, and when the stuff with the children all went down, and all the different people and we were he was able to tell those stories just absolutely perfectly. And with his phraseology of what you just beautifully read, I wish I could speak as gracefully, as fluently and as effortlessly as you do. But I am a stutterer. And when I hear you read the talent and the brilliance and the skill of David Halberstein, I think of Yosemite Falls. I think of Multnomah Falls.

I think of the Columbia Gorge. I think of the John Day River, maybe the Amhaha River draining the northeastern slopes of the Wallawa Mountains and the Eagle Cap wilderness. But the ability to take an idea, to take a thought, to take a dream, to take a memory, and to turn that into something that's timeless, that's you, Brian. That's David. That's the Grateful Dead. That's Bob Dylan.

That's Neil Young. That's John Fogarty, Jackson Brown, Jim Cliff. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. I'm honored to be on your show. Ring that bell. Ring the chimes of freedom. Oh, I love it. Can I do one more passage?

Just one more? Not a sad passage, Bill. Your show, you do whatever you want. Okay, here we go. This is you getting ready for a game. Okay. Okay. And you've obviously told Halberstam this,

and this is how he put it into words. He, this is you, Bill, would sit in his home or his hotel room in those hours and actually see the game and feel the movement of it. Sometimes he did it with such accuracy that a few hours later, when he was on the court,

and the same players made the same moves, it was easy for him because he had already seen it all, had made that move or blocked that shot. He loved that time. He had it all to himself. He was absorbed in his feel for basketball. Does that sound like you? That is me.

Everything that I do in my life, is broken into two different things. One is the performance part, the other is the preparation part. And I love preparation. I love practice. I love the dream. The games, the performance, the shows,

those are super fun too. But to be able to figure it out in advance as to where you're going to go. And this is one of the great challenge, because in life, everything comes so fast to you. And David, he had this incredible discerning eye. He could tell when people were full of it. He could tell when people were lying.

He could tell, you know, when he was, you know, talking about, you know, the generals and all the different wars that covering. When he was dealing with the general managers and the powers that, be in whatever aspect he was dealing with. But David was always trying to get to the level of humanity when the dilemma was so strong and the courage that was needed to overcome that dilemma. And the way that you just described, what you just read in those two chapters, you know, those two segments of breaks of the game, I never got that far because we'll begin.

of the book was just talking about all my friends and how how it all fell apart. And, you know, when you have something that is so meaningful in your life and it just, it turns out so tragically sad and bad, you know, you just want to like put up a protective shield and get to a, get to a more positive place. that you were able to read those two segments to me because now I'm going to feel a little bit better about the world. When you say that is me, right? I think that's the highest compliment you can give a writer.

Not that resembles me or that's a nice take on me, but that that is me, right? So the preparation, you know, I'm a deadhead. I'm a hippie from San Diego. I'm a beach guy. I'm a nature guy. and I'm a sunshine guy, I'm a water, you know, sun rock and water, the elements, right? And music. And so, you know, that ability to be able to dream about what's going to happen.

And all the different permutations of the possibilities that are going to be coming at you. And you don't know. I mean, it's a basketball game. It's life. Anything can happen. But it was like when I joined, when I left UCLA, because I had this perfect life. I never, I rarely encountered anyone that didn't have my best interest at heart until I joined the NBA.

But I was unprepared for the NBA. I was unsuspecting. I was undiscerting. And to be able to meet and know and learn from a David Halberstead who deals with this kind of stuff all the time. And, you know, who lived through someone just the worst of humanity that you can possibly imagine. You know, Mississippi, you know, Nashville in the 50th, which was. which was a launching pad of goodness, and then end up in the Congo, and then in Vietnam, and then be back in the streets and back on the bridges and back in the restaurants,

and back in the lunch counters, and back in the buses, and to see and witness and live all this, and then to be able to tell the story, to be able to empower future generations as to this is how things can go so terribly wrong. if we don't stand tall and proud ourselves and the righteous, the righteous living of truth and goodness and selflessness, and helping one another to get to that top of the mountain. I'll end with this, Bill. Are you ever going to pick this book up again and try one more time?

I don't know. Brian, I just don't know. I should, but there's a lot of things in my life today. should do and maybe this is at the top of the list i took david knew that i had not read the book i generally i generally don't read about myself i generally don't watch myself on television i do what i have to but i don't do it for pleasures because i don't want i don't want my existence to be defined by someone else and what they think and what they see. I am honored to be defined by David Elk.

I am privileged. I am the luckiest guy on earth. And it all comes back to Jack Ramsey. And Jack Ramsey's curiosity, Jack Ramsey's willingness to open the door and the stories that he would tell of the people who he had met through David and to get to David.

And just, it's, you know, dreams, dreams can and do come true. Some folks would be so happy to have just one dream come true. All the things I tried to do, but only did halfway. Fortunately, I'm only 68 and I'm just getting started. Bill Walton, thank you so much for, coming on the press box. Thanks for having me. I hope you got something you can use there.

It's fantastic. I really, really enjoyed that. I'm the lucky one. Thanks for letting me think. Thanks for letting me dream. Thanks for letting me roll on. Thanks for being Yosemite Falls.

Thanks to Bill Walton for that interview. I wanted to leave you with one quote that Halberstam said after he published the breaks of the game. Here it is. Someone suggested I would trade my Pulitzer for a year. year in the NBA. That's not so. I'd want a little longer career than that. Give me a five-year career in the NBA, and you can have the Pulitzer. All right, that's the press box. Thanks to our producer Erica Servantes for her fantastic work. David Shoemaker, Eric and I will appear in this

space every Monday and Friday with more lukewarm takes about the meet. See you next time.