The Press Box - Bomani Jones on Our Post-Literate Society, Who to Root for in the World Cup, the LeBron-Industrial Complex, and Jay-Z (Again)

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

Today on The Press Box, Bryan is out, but Joel Anderson is here, and he's joined by Bomani Jones. They discuss myriad topics, including the literacy crisis (04:07), Bomani's time at summer league (45:14), LeBron's decision (50:49), the Jay-Z concerts (01:00:52), and much more. Host: Joel AndersonGuest: Bomani Jones Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, media consumers. Welcome to the press box. You've got me, Joel Anderson, and producer John Not Bones Jones on the Ones and Twos. Our fearless leader, Brian Curtis, is out today, probably curled up on a couch somewhere, reading a book in New England. Hopefully, I can hold it down

until he gets back into the saddle. In the interim, we've got a special, but also a sort of regular guest for a very full show today. We're going to talk about that big, scary, cover story for the August 26 edition of the Atlantic, a voluminous piece that hopefully we all made it through title at the end of reading is here. Brian and Dave talked about that the other day, but this guest is made for this topic, so I thought it was worth bringing back around.

We're also going to talk about how we've been taking in the World Cup, which will conclude this weekend with a third place game between England and France on Saturday and a final between Argentina and Spain on Sunday. We're getting to the pause a little bit later. And we're going to talk about this upcoming class of NBA rookies and the ever-present LeBron James Industrial Complex. And maybe a few other things that Tom's allows, you know, the Jay-Z Yankee Stadium residency, our beloved home state of Texas. Who are we going to talk about that with all these great topics? Well, if you like him, you're in luck. Today's guest is my good friend, Beaumani Jones, who many of you might know from his highly acclaimed podcast, the right time with Bomani Jones.

He's graciously agreed to sit in with me today. Bomani, thank you for your very valuable time. I appreciate you having me. And I would actually say that if you don't like me, it's even better for you because you got the chance to like come the fuck around. Yep. You know what? Stick in.

Yeah, if you don't, like you don't have to be wrong forever. Nobody's obligated to be wrong forever. You have your chance to get on the good foot. Starting now. I try not to read comments, but I will say people really, respond well to you on press box episodes. They get to hear you talk about stuff that maybe sometimes you don't get to talk about

on the right time. Yeah, that's it. I appreciate that from the people, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, I pre-date that. Shout out to Brian Curtis. I didn't know he was the go to New England type. I thought he was from Fort Worth, but you know. Oh, he is.

He got a place. Man, look, man, I'm fine. Oh, he has a place. In Connecticut, man. I'm finding out. A lot of folks got places in Connecticut. Not me, but you know, a lot of people. Yeah, I mean, I might get a place.

It ain't gonna be a no goddamn. Connecticut, though. That's just not... But that's what New York folks do. Don't they summer in Connecticut? I understand that they do. If I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it a little different. That's all I'm saying.

That water cold. Like, that's, that's my thing. I've done, like, the Rhode Island Beach. It's cool. But the water cold. But, like, you know, for different reasons, like, you ain't gonna catch me dead and no Martha's Vineyard and nothing like that.

Oh, well, we got to talk, because people have been invited me to Martha's Vineyard forever. Yeah, you go have fun with them. Really? You go have fun with that. No thanks. No thanks.

Okay. All right. My wife is, you know, she was a Harvard Law grad, did some of the Martha's Vineyard thing. And I made fun of it at the time. And then we got to a point in life where people now want to invite us up there. And I'm just like, yeah, we'll see.

No, my thing is it's like, yo, all these people that you don't hang out with are hanging out together. Don't you want to come? No. I don't. What? You got to skip Gates.

I got nothing to get. them, you know, but I ain't going. Well, I would go to Martha's venue before I go anywhere in Connecticut. And I'm pretty much, there's not a, I'm not accepting any place in Connecticut. I can't really tell them places apart, man. I'm going to be perfectly honest. I mean, I could sort of tell this between Boston and all that. But anyway, well, we'll, if we get, if we circle back to that, we will.

But I want to get started. I'm sure many people here are at least aware of the latest talker that made the cover of the Atlantic Magazine. And if we're to believe the data, not many of you read that piece and a fraction of you made it all the way through the 8600 word cover story. That story, the end of reading is here

and it was written by Rose Horowitz. Brian talked about this some earlier this week, but I really wanted to bring this up with Bumani because I feel like he's been touching on this issue for years in some ways. Just to bring everyone up to speed again in the piece, Horowitz argues that we're already in a post-Litton.

age, she points to rings of data showing that fewer adults and fewer children are reading books of any kind, that more of us have become addicted to screens and videos as opposed to print and text, and that the election of Donald Trump itself is evidence of our, quote, distracted, disputatious society. Here's a line from the story that really struck me. The advent of reading and writing transformed society. It altered people's consciousness and politics, along with the intellectual feats they were capable of, the decline of reading will bring about changes of the same magnitude. It will affect our innermost thoughts, our society's politics and culture, and how we tell the history of our civilization. If we look closely, we can see that these changes

have already begun. Look, Bo, I was a big reader in my youth. I was always carrying a book around, even annoying my mom. I would bring a book to the table. Every time there was dinner, I would have a book with me. A book was always by my side. I read well into the night. And I still read now. I know I read more than the average person if you don't believe this data, but I don't read like I would want to, right? Like, I thought I would be more of a reader at this age in a particular way. And it hasn't quite worked out that way. And I think I'm struggling against all the same things that all these other people are. Where are you on that scale? I actually think that in the last three, four years or so, I've become more of a, like, book reader. than I had been at any other point in my life, to be honest.

Like, a lot of that stuff would read and things like that. I'm going to be honest with you, man. You know, I just always thought that school was like a smart contest. And I felt like my reputation preceded me. Like, whatever this was that you needed me to prove, like, oh, you want me to read this just so I can tell you what I read? That's dumb, right? Like, I missed the point in a lot of ways.

I'm not exactly sure, like, where the change can. I think part of the change came for me in terms of like doing more reading as I try to like height myself up to, you know, maybe write one of these things myself or something like that. But I do a lot more reading now. And it's a gratifying reprie from the screens, quite honestly. And I found that as I like kind of started to get into the process, you kind of, just like anything else that people are addicted to, you got to kind of get past that shaky part. And then once you push through that, then it's like, okay, boom, you can go. Like I found that like, I think that. that, you know, the screens are the real star of this story.

Right. I thought. And so, like, I think about it, I took a 15-hour flight with no Wi-Fi. Man, I knocked out two books on that bad boy. Oh, wow. Like, it's amazing when you take that option away, right? Like, how many more things did you could do?

I actually, I felt very similar to Joel Anderson in the sense that when she used that term post-literate. That must have been when he felt like when he saw people raising the roof. Like, I felt like I had been using that term. Oh, I felt like I had been using that term for quite a while. I don't know if I got it from somebody else to be perfectly honest, but I think that it's not post-literacy.

It's post-literate, which I think is an important distinction. Like, I've talked about this in different places, but I was reading this book on Frank Sinatra. And it talked about how it was Sinatra, and I want to say Jimmy Cannon, who was a famous newspaper columnist in New York City. And the book described this scene, the two of them arguing,

which is, who was a better author? It was Hemingway versus Fitzgerald. I forget who had which side, but I'm pretty sure that Sinatra was on the Fitzgerald side. Anyway, what struck me about it was these guys were both high school dropouts. Yeah. Yet they were engaged in a conversation about who their favorite author is.

Like, think about the way that we know who authors were in the past, right? And like, guys, what we don't think about them as is dudes that just had stuff that was out at the time. You know, like something that was like something that was just in the store. Like, for example, my sister writes fiction, right? Like her books are things. They are right now. But somewhere down the line, they're going to talk about her in the way that you talk about.

Like it's called Alice Walker, for example, the color purple. Yeah. Color Purple was a book that was in the store. Yep. Right. Like the fire next time was a book like, like it was like, yo, ball would just drop. You know what I mean? Like there was a new book.

I can't think of who writers are. Like there's some of the big machine type writers. right? I mean, you know, type of guys like, what's, what's my,

James Patterson, right? Like a dude like that or like John Grisham was or whatever it was. Like, their names that come out. But writers aren't stars

in the ways that they were because we don't consume books in the way that we used to. Well, I mean, well, first of all, I'm going to say,

one guy that I think has managed to beat that or, you know, sort of defy the honest is your dude, Tanahasi Coats, man. Like, whenever he drops a book, he's one of those people I feel like people will look for it.

He gets to go on CBS. Yeah. People are excited about that. But yet outside of him, you're right. I can't really think of that many anymore. That's not the world that we're in at this point. Because you get later,

like a guy like John Updike, for example, those books aren't that old. You know what I mean? People talked about that. Like, I don't have a great answer for you for when that turned around. But the thing about, like, Sinatra and Canon is those guys had to read,

because that was the only way, to really do it. That's right. Like that was what your entertainment options were. As we got more cable and everything else, like as a writer who dabbles in some economics or an economist who dabbles in some writing, it depends on which conversation we're in. I always thought about it when I was writing

that every word that I wrote needed to provide the reader more benefit than the effort cost that it took to read that word. Right? Like a big thing that you learn with economic stuff is that effort is cost. And so if you're going to write something, like, and if you read the stuff I write, I think you can see the philosophy in it. Like I'm trying to make it as easier read for you as possible, give you as many ideas or whatever,

but make it where you ain't got to work that hard. Economic. In order to get it. Yeah. Right. Because, I mean, that's part of what the activity is, is there is that trade that comes from it. But the thing is, everything is easy. Like, there's so many different ways to find, you know, to find things that,

to consume your attention that are easy, but aren't necessarily more fulfilling or compelling. But the reason that those people consume those things like that previously was not simply because they were fulfilling or compelling. It's because they were there. They became fulfilling and compelling because they had to justify the activity, right? It's almost the competition that's there. Well, the competition for the book or wrong magazine piece or whatever it is,

I can click a video. somebody might tell me about this in two minutes. Now, the part that people need to be honest with themselves about is they're doing shit with their time anyway, right? Like, it's not like they're saving that two minutes so they can do something so rich and valuable. No, they're scrolling on screen doing, playing a game, arguing people, you know, or whatever it is. But I do think that that is true. That is where we are. And by turning off that portion of our brains, I think this is the part that gets lost.

It's an evolutionary sort of discussion. that the sort of thinking that you develop from reading being a necessary skill, people are going to lose that, right? Like I read those Neil Postman books, and I forget one of these, one of these cats from back in the day was talking about the advent of the written word was very controversial. Yeah, right.

And the idea was that the written word was then going to, the memories that people had would be less vivid. The oral tradition, yeah, and all that, yeah. But physiologically, because they don't use that, we're not using that portion of our brains anymore. And so we kind of evolve past that. The photograph is another thing where obviously there are benefits to the fact that we have these things that hold a record and then go back to them and everything else.

But there is a trade. I'm not sure that the technology has provided us truly a proper trade for what we're losing from becoming less literate because we are becoming less thoughtful. And every tool that is created is one that. makes it so you don't have to think as much, which kind of ignores the benefit that you get from thinking itself. I'm saying, one more thing because I know I've been going for a while. No, you're good. But I did not feel like in the piece.

And I'll be honest, I ain't read every word. So you tell me, I missed this. You know, look, you know what it is, though? It's that many words on a screen. Yeah. If that many words were in my hand, it's a much easier read, right? That's why I like the Kendall. The Kendall is an easier read than the Kendall app.

I agree. for that, you know, for that same reason. But another Postman idea, Postman wrote a book of The Disappearance of Childhood, and this is like the offshoots of the literate age. The argument that he makes in that book is that childhood at the time it was written had only really existed as a concept for maybe about 150 years. The idea of childhood was a result of widespread literacy and a result of the printing press.

And the idea that we teach kids certain things in certain levels in certain places was about the idea of what they were literate enough to understand at different points. But that also allowed us to like keep secrets and that a part of childhood is with, of maintaining the idea of childhood is withholding certain information once you decide that they could handle that. Before you had literacy and widespread schooling and things like that, kids were just small adults. They worked right next to you in the factory. They worked right next to you in the field.

I saw pictures of them in the coal mines. That's right. Right. But that's also like part of the explanation for why it is that you have these like, like children having children at 14 and things like that. They were not seen as a separate class of people. They were simply seen as small people. There was no like delicate way that you're supposed to treat them. Like the idea of a teenager is a very new idea. You know, I bring all that up to say in this era of the internet, without that literacy as a barrier.

take a look at how the idea of childhood has changed, right? Think of how more widely exposed. That's right. Children are now. Think of how children dress like adults. That's right. Basically, adults dress like children, children dress like a dust, like all of this blurs.

And part of that, I think, is us being in this post-literate society because once you make it to where you can just click and watch a video or whatever it is, then the access goes away. Like we talked about this already that was the name, Hates book, The Ancient Generation. I know what I mean? I understand his politics are not ours, but the points of that book are very compelling,

and the big argument he makes is that we have sheltered our children too much in real life and given them way too much country on the internet. That's right. And so they have access to all these things. So once we decide the reading doesn't matter, then we put everything in a bucket that is very easily understood, at least on some level, by everybody.

And that's another offshoot that we have of it. So I thought that piece was important, but I was a little surprised at how surprised a lot of people were by reading it, like that these were ideas that were not confronting them already. Speaking of writing, when I was first writing the intro for that,

I was going to say these are provocative but fairly predictable conclusions, right? Because it seems that way. I don't want to ask you about when you noted, you said, you know, you want to take your credit for coming up on post literacy early. But I'll say this when I was a kid and I'm talking about, you know, the kid, when I was, you know, I read a lot as a kid. When they had those book at, you know, competitions or whatever, I was cleaning that shit up. You know what I'm saying? But I remember people treated it as weird.

Like I remember I had a very acute sense that reading wasn't something that a lot of people did. Even then, we're talking about the 80s and 90s. Like I didn't, I don't know how many friends you had you grew up with that actually did a lot of reading. So I knew that it was already sort of like a thing that not many people did and especially a lot of boys and men didn't do. So that's, that I think is the interesting line. Because for me, it's tricky. My parents are college professors, right? Of course, right.

Like I remember the day that I realized, wait a minute, you've read all these things? Right, like all these books that are just on the shelf in the house. Right? You, whoa, right? Like, I didn't realize that somebody had read every one of those. But, like, when I look back on it, especially the girls that were high achievers, they seemed like they had read everything. Right. I certainly had not.

I wasn't even reading the things that were assigned to me. Oh, same. I had not. But, like, I did. I don't remember getting to college. watching people read books that weren't aside. Hmm. You know, and the other thing with Postman,

Postman died in 2003, but his boogeyman was television. Right. That all of this was the result of, like, television is the beginning. And what's interesting because the internet and first provided us all these opportunities to read. To learn.

That was the goal. Like, oh, you can look all this stuff up. I read, like, what, and to be fair to me, when I talk about this reading, that's just really talking about books. Right. I read the newspaper. I read magazines.

Like I read all of that stuff. And then when the internet came around, I was always reading something. Even to this day, like the internet is a video machine. It's something that is not really, I don't know, that's not the way I necessarily lived to consume things about it. But once the video capability came about, it just became a television on steroids.

Yeah. Right? Like all the postmen ideas are about television and all of them hold up because the internet has proven to be an extension of television rather than the deviation from. I feel like, and this is from before we even knew each other, because you used to teach over at Duke University a little bit, right? You did some teaching over there. And I felt like one of the things that you always used to talk about, you were surprised. And again, Duke, one of the best institutions in this country or one of the most highly regarded institutions in this country. And you said, oh, man, these people ain't reading. They coming in here and not prepared and all that's a way. Is that fair? Is that a fair? You know, some of them, to be fair, right? Like, some of them showing up. up and had it all the time, right?

Where you get to the end of semester and you tell, hey, you know what? I've enjoyed having you in my course, right? Right. But it was like how much outside stuff they had read. Like my dad, cool as super nerd you'd ever meet. But his thing was when he was in graduate school and I was amazed when he would say this. He said that he had two lists when he was in graduate school. He had the list of things that he read for class and his own personal list that he had

planned to read. I'm like, how did you have the time for both? That's right. And you know why you had the time? Because the muscles were stronger. Right. You know, like, and like I find now, I watch those muscles for me get stronger as I like lean in more, you know, on all of these things and kind of mindfulness stuff in terms of like maintaining the focus. Because I think that's another part of it too with what the internet has done is makes it difficult for people to focus and have that level of, have that level of concentration.

Like when you think about it in a lot of ways, reading is an act of meditation where you give it, you give it your attention, at least for me, at least, and your mind starts going somewhere else. You got to pull that shit back. Like, you pull it back and be like, oh, damn, I miss half a page. Right. That's right. Let me get back to where it is, you know. I try, and I should let people know.

And I mentioned this on Bumani's show. Bumani is a very good friend of me. He, because he saw me on social media a little too much arguing with people, something that I, I've stopped doing. I don't know if you've noticed in the last couple weeks. I ain't really anything good for you. Good for you. But he got me this Kendall, and it has really helped a lot.

But yeah because they fooled us They're like you can do everything through the phone Wow wouldn't that be convenient And then turn the phone into a piece of evil Yeah right The thing is why so I was trying to figure out Because there's also a part of me And you even said it with Neil Postman

There's a part of me that always is like Oh there's this panic every generation There's TV Yeah you lead yeah you lead towards that Cell phone smart So yeah everything everything is always been Trying to pull us away from books And even in the story, it talks about how reading is a fairly new phenomena when you look at the totality of human existence.

We've been able to make it without reading for more time than we've been here on this earth. But like, why do you think like it's that important? Because that's what I'm trying to figure out. I'm like, you know, even though people read and were literate, it's not like horrible things that happened. It wasn't like this wasn't a earth where there wasn't like, you know, widespread degradation and, you know, cruelty and everything else. So why do you think it's so important? I think it's important because it is, it affords you the ability to go deeper

in your understanding of things. Like the nature of the medium, allows for that. And I think also, at least I find this, that when I read, I'm more likely to have thoughts that shoot from what I'm reading or like allows it advancement. It is more conducive to providing, you know,

prepare you for discussion about these things. So for me, that's where I think it is, where I think it's important. Because yeah, like before we had the written word, there was no reading. Right. You know, there are entire societies that never had written words. Right. You know, that that went through. You're right. And in the world, the world existed, however it did. But I think that we would all agree that the existence is not simply of the written word, but the mass production of the written word. has been a societal net positive. Oh.

You know, I think there's, I think there's no way around it. I read a different book that made this point about the internet and where the internet has been a bit of a net negative. I can't remember which one it was, but it makes the point that all that the internet has allowed us to do is send more messages and send them more quickly. But not necessarily more thoughtfully. In fact, in a way, the ability to send these off more quickly

is bad for us because it makes us more rash. It makes us more impulsive. It makes us more likely to say things that we would probably regret. The world of the written word, both in its production and its consumption, requires us to slow down in a way that I think is a societal net positive.

Like, you and I were both writers at the advent of the internet. Yes. We have gone from the letter to the editor that was physical to where we begin emails, which felt a lot like the letter to the editor. To where they have kind of devolved to now,

which is comments and tweets. Right. And those emails I used to get in the year 2000 were much more thoughtful. Yes. And I could engage, I would engage those people. Yeah.

We would have back and forths about what it was that I was right. And sometimes I'd find out I was wrong, right? Oh, okay, I got you or whatever. How often. or the opposite, that is, do you now receive correspondence from people that is worth engaging? You know, so that's an interesting thing you say about that

because I actually get emails semi-regularly from people who listen to this show, for instance. And to those people, it takes me a while to get back to people to respond because I want to be thoughtful about it, right? And I'm always really impressed when somebody sends me an email. And so, yeah, I try to always respond, especially if somebody comes in good faith and, you know, whatever.

But, yeah, it doesn't happen nearly as much. And then I think it also sort of perverts the way you think of your audience, right, like the way that it is now. Because then I think, and you know, you know me, sometimes I think of the audience is more antagonistic to me. Yeah, you just don't hear from the people with nice things to say. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And as I was like, you know what, let me take a step back so that I don't do that. But also the other thing that I was thinking about with that is that it really, so it has changed the work that I do on a day-to-day basis, right? Like, I talk a hell of a lot more for work than I used to.

And I still fundamentally think of myself as a writer. But when I write, I don't really give a shit if people don't read a lot or if they're like, it's going to take a long time to get to it. I'm writing the way that I like to write. And my hope is that the reader is going to come along with me. Do you think about that at all when you're right? Because you did say you try to be economical. I've always viewed it a bit more in a producer-consumer relationship.

Okay. That I want to write in a way that people can consume as easily as possible. So for me, if you read stuff I wrote like 25 years ago, a bit more flowery. Yeah.

You know, the sentences were extended a bit more, dot-da-da. Now, granted, part of this is how I was molded by editors that I had to be a little punchier, to be a little quicker. I don't always know if that made my stuff more fun, but it's definitely better, you know, as a result.

And so I had that idea of how I can serve my audience the best. But no, I want to make it as easy as possible for them to read the stuff. I did the bill with his line, brother, don't do too much good to be talking. Brother, if ain't nobody listening. You know what I mean? Like, I'm very much into it in that way. it, like, I'm

Maxwell in this writing thing. I'm not the greatest of all the time, but I don't put out some jams and people like them. And you might wait seven, eight years. You know, before I drop another one. I feel that. I feel that. Well, yeah, I mean, because the thing is,

is like, again, I think that I've, much like you, I've gotten much more economical with my words, but I still fundamentally, when I'm writing, I'm thinking about a thing that I want to see in the world. Right. And so the stories, the stories that I choose to write, I'm like, I don't see that

and I want to see it in the world. And I'm just trusting the people are going to come along with me. And I know that there are people out there that read and will read that stuff. I've been rewarded for it for my career. Well, hold on. I want to be, let me ask you a question. I want to be clear, make sure I understand where you're coming from. Is that in terms of the style, what you're talking about?

Are you talking about the style in which you write, or are you talking about your topics because I would say on topics, because I would say on topics, you and I are very similar in that regard. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say both, but yeah, you know, the thing is, and it's weird when you think about style, because style is something that, like, you don't realize you've developed until you actually have it, right? So you actually have a voice. And it took me a long time before I found my voice. I was trying to write like Ralph Wiley, and then I was trying to write like Rick Riley, all this other stuff, right? And so eventually you end up somewhere or wherever. And so I ended up with that.

But yeah, in terms of topics, I'm definitely more like, I don't see that out here and I want it in the world and I'm just going to trust that. So yeah. Yeah. Like I hate writers who write for themselves.

Okay. Because I think in what you're describing, you are not the person I'm talking about when I say that, right? Like when you're saying, like, I want to write the thing that I want to see, right? Which is not the,

not the same thing as what I mean. I hate what I call masturbatory writers. Okay. They just beating it all over the page, man. You know, they ain't doing this for nobody else, but they own fulfillment. That's the only thing. It ain't producing no life.

There's no, there's no relationship with anybody else on the other side. They just close their eyes and get to work. I hate that, right? And you just try to show me how many big words you got or like, they're like super rappers, basically. Yeah, right, right, right. Like super rappers on the paper.

Miracle miracles. Yeah, I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. because to me, the idea, the thought is that you've got ideas that you want to share and why share them if you do not want them to be received. You know, like, that's the thing. Like, if writers who write for other writers, hate it.

That's true. That's true. Well, in that regard, I hear what you're saying because this is how I feel about books and we can move on after this. I'm not going to write no book that I don't think nobody going to read. And people have tried to get me to write books over the years and, you know, like, hey, you should write this book. Or have you thought about writing this?

I'm like, bro, first of all, I have to sit with that book for a long time. That is a very hard for me. Well, that's what I was going to ask you. And I say this, this does describe me. So I say this with no judgment. Okay. Is it that the idea of climbing that mountain scares you a little bit? Yeah, it does.

Because it scares me to death. Well, you remember when I was doing so, slow burn is basically writing a book. Yes. When you do Slow Burn is writing a book, I was losing my mind during one of those seasons. Like the LA ride season, you were there. I was like, man, I just,

I almost had a breakdown in the middle of because it was so hard. And so, yeah, like, it's very scary. And then you got to worry about the reception for the rest of the world. Yeah, well, see, so the second part, the rest of the world and the rest of your life. Yes. But it surprises me because as you put it, you have written a book.

Like, when I wrote the Vanity Fair piece I did on, Trinidad Chapples. Mm-hmm. Very good piece. Y'all should read it. Thank you. What I'll stick with me forever is it was the first time I'd ever written anything of that magnitude and I didn't feel panicked toward the end.

Like, I remember I sat here in this office and when I was finally getting done, that piece of, one thing that's a little easier when you write something that's reported out is you, other people are, you just, you just do it a lot of connected. Uh-huh. Right. You know. Pieces together. Uh-huh.

Yeah. But I remember what I got done. And I was like, wow, it's never felt like that before. Like I am, even though I don't do this often enough, I am better technically than I've ever been. And my ability to put things together is no longer riding off a feeling. It's really with the technical understanding of how to construct and put these things together.

And so when I think about it with you, you've been doing this for so long and you do it so well that it's right there. But you would, but in line with what we're talking about, when you have a reverence for the craft and a reverence for the product, It is daunting the idea of doing it and putting it together yourself. And we're actually moving to a place where I feel like these people ain't scared all about writing. They be throwing out of writing.

I wish there was most shit. I feel, and me and my wife talk about this all the time, I feel like more people should be awed by the process of writing. Shit, most people should be all about a process of podcasting. Yeah, fair point. Fair point, fair point. We've been talking about this for a while, so I gotta move on. We can talk about this forever though and maybe we will at some other point.

I got to get us on to this next thing, which is the World Cup. All right. And I'm calling this the World Cup fans with no country. All right. That's us. That's us. That's us. That's us.

No, we haven't got no country. Soccer bowl. Yeah, the soccer ball is you call it. Yeah. So for people catching y'all up, I'm sure y'all know. But on Wednesday, Leonel Messi and Argentina scored twice in six minutes and 24 seconds to the end of their semifinal against England to advance to the World Cup final. There they'll face Spain, which shut out betting face.

favorite France 2-0 and the other semifinal Tuesday that sets up a gold medal game on Sunday between Argentina, the South American champ versus Spain, the European champ. Bo, how much of this have you been watching? Because I love the World Cup. Like, it's amazing to me. It's one of my favorite things to watch. I have gone from appreciating the World Cup to loving the World Cup. Okay.

Now, for the first, okay, so the first week I was here. The next two weeks, I was in the Dolomites, and it was like the World Cup didn't exist. I mean, you're saying, yeah, that's crazy. That's Europe. Yeah, well, part of it is, you know, Italy, nowhere to be found. But I think the other part is I don't recall seeing any television on when I was on the, when I was in the Dolomites, to be fair. But like, I'm in New York.

Like, I don't know if it's just because it was in New York. But, and because it's, the big thing about the World Cup being in the United States is that it's on our time. Right. Which makes things a lot easier. man, I was so excited in looking forward to go into the Senegalese block

to watch France in Senegal. But they had blocks up. You had to be able to prove that you lived, work there, I had a reservation. They wouldn't let you go. It was the wildest thing. And so then I just wound up going to another spot and watched it. And the whole place is glued to it. Yeah. Right. 100% locked in on it.

Like, this is the rare thing that the whole world shares it. Right? Like every, it's just a whole different energy around it. And I saw Tieri-R-Ree made a point about soccer that really helped me understand it better than I ever had. I saw him on the broadcast where he said, it is not a game about consistency. It is a game about moments. And what you never know is when that moment is going to come.

So you take that and then add the cultural part. And then there's an element of it that is like the Indiana State basketball tournament used to be not terribly dissimilar than the NCAA tournament, which is not everybody's playing for the same thing. Right. Cape Verde lost that heartbreaker to Argentina. Playing the game that they played against Argentina was a victory. It means a lot. They're playing for something different, right? Everybody is truly playing for something different. And so that leads to a level of entertainment and like an engrossment that is much different.

then again, here being in a city where you get on the train and you'd be like, oh, I was, I think I must have been going to catch a flight, but all the people in Ecuador jerseys, they must be go, they spot must be in Queens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so it's interesting you say that too because, I mean, again, we're, I mean, one thing about it is that we're from the South.

And I mean, obviously, we're from the Black South, which is, and many of us down there playing soccer. No, I'm shit. Even white people. Oh, it was rich white people that was playing soccer in Houston. Exactly, exactly. It was like, all right, that's what y'all do over there. So I was very late to it.

And when I came around to it, I think it was about the World Cup in 2006, something like that, where I was like, oh, I get this. And especially the international stakes and everything. Like, it's easy to kind of keep up because now I can look up the country. Oh, do I like this country? Do I like this? Do I like this section in Wikipedia? Cool, I'm a role with that.

So that actually sort of brings me to Argentina, which look, man, some people have gotten upset at me for being like, look, the blackness in me won't allow me to root for Argentina. I'm so sorry. I'm surprised that anybody's had a problem with that. Because the internet I see has all kind of jokes about like, gee, why do you have a sourcrout recipe

in Argentina, right? And I guess this is the reason why it surprises me or maybe it shouldn't surprise me. International competition, people typically root first for, first for country. Yep. Second for homeland. Third, geopolitics.

Yes. Like what you think the Olympics was such a big deal for? United States versus the Soviet Union. Right. It was people rooting against the politics in the way of life of the Soviet Union. Right. Argentina, guys,

maybe maybe people just think it's an accident that they don't got no black people on the team. Well that's man bro. See you know my co-host van. It's like, well, America don't have a right. So I saw his point, right? Which felt to me very much like, oh, you got a problem with you still use that iPhone, no.

Yeah, right. You still use your Amazon. Like I talked about this with Foxworth on my show that what's interesting about both the United States and Argentina and men. Maybe this fits other places, but these are the only two I can think of, where the colonizers became the face of the colony. Right?

Which is to say, the United, this land, the people who represent this land are not the people who are indigenous to this land. No. Right. Argentina is the same way, right? Who had this first? That don't really matter no more, and I'll do it. I mean, but it's right next to fucking Brazil, bro.

You know what I'm saying? It's not just that it's right by Brazil. It's like Paraguay, which has its own, you know, I recall they were kind of kind to some Nazis too, but Paraguay is largely indigenous. It's right next there, right? Archita, I went to Buenos Aires in April. And I was a little surprised.

I did not feel mistreated except when I couldn't get an Uber. And the one time I did get an Uber, a black man from Venezuela is the one. who picked me up. I was expecting the worst and I did not get the worst, but their history is uniquely problematic. Okay, if I got to decide who to root for,

seems like a good enough reason as any. Look, man, that's all I'm saying. And again, which is not to excuse the American history of racism, anything like that. I understand where we are on this. But, bro, look, just bottom line, I'm not going to root for it. no team with no black people on it, bro.

Like, I mean, there's just that right there. Yeah, like, look, our Native American brothers probably don't root for U.S. teams because I'm not saying, at least they didn't kill us all. They came pretty close. They get them, right? Like, Dominique said it. He was like, at least the United States

act like they got some shame to it. Like, Argentina doesn't even have any black people so that they could be like, hey, let's put this to decide for this victory. They ain't even got that. But what is interesting, I don't know if you know this. They consider Maradonna to be black.

I have heard that, exactly. Like by their standards of race, and people have to remember that race thing is a sliding scale. For them, Maradona is black and they love Maradona. Now, if Maradona look like Pele, I would be very curious to know how that

goes over, right? Then they're also interesting because their messy thing is weird because messy spent so much time in Spain. But yeah, it's, yeah, no, I don't, you got to, if you decide who to root for, you got to pick one or the other, like France and Spain. Yeah, I root for France because they got more brothers on the team. I told you about when I was in Barcelona, uh, during Euro two years ago, and France played against Spain. And I needed somewhere to watch it, but I didn't want to go watch it with the Spaniards because I was afraid of what they might say.

Yeah, man. So I went to the French spot. I mean, look, bro. And it's like, just in here, FIFA is investigating this incident right now what Argentina fan was saying go cry at the zoo to this influencer, I show speed. Many people probably know who I show speed is, man. And again, I know that that can happen. That's a one-off, whatever.

But like, this kind of thing always kind of crops up with Argentina over and over again. So, whatever. Look, man, it's obvious. They're the only team that ain't got no problems. Like, it is obvious that you ain't going to do that by coincidence. Look, man. You know it in Friday Night Lights, the book, when they're talking about Odessa Peruvian, and that was a real point of pride for Odessa Permian this one time.

We didn't need them. You know what I mean when they say them? We didn't need them. And then eventually they kind of came around, but whatever. But Argentina hasn't reached that point yet. And obviously, it's working out for them. But even if they needed them, they ain't got them. They're not going to do it.

That's right. That's the thing, the fact that they ain't got none. Or they could go get one. You know how it is. And some of these other countries, man, they'd be like, look, man, we can, we can, We can ease the citizenship thing over here real easy for you. But do be fair, they don't need them. They don't need them.

They don't know. They don't know. Look here. If the United States didn't think they needed to. Let's be clear about this. They have only led us in to things that they thought they needed us to do. Well, I was going to ask you about that because this is the question that people always talk about what America needs to do to be good at soccer. Right.

And I always, my thing about this, and I think it's funny. Like, I think the American fascination with being good at soccer is funny to me. I'm just like, why? Like, why do you, why do we care? Every country can't be good at everything, bro. You know what I'm saying? It's just not our jam. It's just not our jam.

It doesn't matter to us as much in the development system or whatever. Do you think we need to be good at soccer or how could we be good at soccer if that's even possible? I don't know how we could be good. I'd said on my show, maybe we just the Texas A&M of soccer. Damn, bro, come on. Eight wins, maybe nine. Hey, man. They just went 11 and two last year.

And had it in. I mean, two losses. Hey, they almost beat Miami, man. That was good game. That's fine. That's fine. They almost did. You're right.

But in the end, they got all the resources in every year. Like, why can't they be better? Why can't they be better? Or maybe, or maybe we're in North Carolina football when it comes to it. All these things in place, good at these other things. You think would trickle over to whatever it is. Maybe, like, there's no explanation to why Argentina is so, good. Like there's no demographic

explanation for why it is. Spain is not some giant country with an that's a powerhouse economy. Absolutely. Right? And unlike France, they don't really have they don't have colonies in the same way that they can harvest to put

together a team. We're typically not really as good as Mexico. That's right. Right? Like why? I don't, I wonder with soccer like looking how good Brazil is, what's been fundamental about Brazilian soccer, because being good is like the ethos and the spirit of it. Like it's almost like to me it feels like there's something more

ethereal about it that for whatever reason we can't get all. People have made the argument that one place where Americans get it wrong is we're too fascinated with athleticism. I mean, we're in a sport where the best player is 5'7, 140 pounds. Right, exactly. And we still try to win the game getting off the bus. You know? And so like, but I think in line with what you're saying to get to your original point,

why shouldn't we be good at soccer is the question? And then the other question is, why should we? Yeah. But what we got to start doing is being like these other countries, and it still seem like an American thing, but we got to start looking at it this way. We got to the round of 16 again. We've all got 194 countries, baby.

I think it's 205 different little, because, you know, countries is a different term for soccer. Number 16 ain't bad, man. It really isn't. You know, we played against Belgium in the battle for Lumumba's Tooth. And we just went, like Belgium, which I think it's like the size of Maryland. It's very small.

Very small country. They got us, man. And they dumped that ass, too. And for some of some of the Cagolese cats on their team, which is a whole other, you know, but like, no, I think we Americans, there's no compelling reason. It's kind of like part of why golf is so frustrating with people for people who play is like, why shouldn't I be good at golf? And the answer is you're not. You're just not. Right.

I could get in it. I tried to swing some clubs with Danny Haifis. And I swung about 100 times. First of all, I was sore shit the next day. It was unbelievable. It is more of an athletic endeavor than it seems like. Oh, yeah. And I remember, I'm sitting there.

I'm like, well, first of all, I'm 30 years removed from being a good athlete. And I'm like, but I think I should be able to do this. I don't understand why I can't do it. Just can't do it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Bumani was recently in Vegas to watch some of the NBA summer league.

Yes. Check out this upcoming rookie class, which is going to, you know, probably has a chance to be as good. Well, I don't know. Nobody should compare it to the class 2003. yet because that's crazy. But the potential is there, the hype is there, the claim is there.

AJ DeBastor, Darren Peterson, Camboozer, Caleb Wilson, all these others. And the Summer League winds down there Sunday and then we'll really be in the off-season. What was the enthusiasm for those rookies like down there? What was it like watching those guys play? Oh, it was high. Like the thing I talked about, though,

I went to the game, DeBance and Peterson, Utah and Washington. And the thing you have to remember is Las Vegas proximity to Utah. Yep. And also in line with that, Las Vegas has a significant Mormon population. The reason I bring that up is on one team is the BYU guy. The other side is the Utah Jazz. Right.

That place was packed. Oh, they were in there. They were in there. There was a heavily invested crowd in that. And both of those dudes are as advertised. Okay. Like, both of them are as advertised. I didn't get to see Wilson or Boozer play against each other,

but Caleb Wilson looks like the truth. Boozer, I am skeptical of. And I admit that where he went to school ain't helping. The Duke thing is, yes. It doesn't help. Tripping you up. No, but in watching, people I trust to know way more about basketball, me are super enthusiastic about him.

And I saw a guy that I thought had to work a little too hard to get buckets in college. And that for me was the thing. But no, no, no, no, no, no. We got something here. Now, the question is, and I think it really, to me, Boozer is not in this discussion and I would say even the people who are high on Boozer would agree that he's not really

in this discussion. Okay. Wilson, Peterson, and DeBanza look like guys who could become like S-tier players. Right. Superstar best player in the league

after Victor. Wow. AJ, you feel that? You really feel that. Okay, wow. Dude. Look, maybe I just love the fact he's six, and it's all downhill everything, right?

I love the way that he plays. For those of us who have fairly incorrectly lamented that this country does not produce basketball superstars anymore. And I mean, I think that's an inarguable fact at this point. It looked like we might gossip. Okay. With these guys. And Peterson, we're going to look back at Peterson.

Like, remember when Anthony Edwards was coming out and we were like, yeah, I wonder if he, I don't know if he wants it, though. Yeah, well, he went to Georgia. Georgia wasn't great. Yeah, that's what we're going to be saying about Darren Peterson. Okay. Like in watching Kim, it was like, he wants it out here. Yeah.

And not in a performative. I got something to prove to you right now sort of way. Like, nah, I think that's just how he's wired. I don't know if it was your show or somebody else. I was saying the people of Kansas sort of did him a disservice. Yeah. By allowing those rumors. You know what I'm saying?

I talked to somebody around the Kansas program and he said, we did him a disservice with the narrative. I'm glad to see because I felt like he got to, I just, my thought always, whenever a basketball player is going through something like that and people start questioning, you know, their will or whatever. I'm like, bro, you don't get to be that good. You don't get to be at that level if you don't have some degree of like, want it. Well, yeah, but it was a fair question. And I think that it was the new world and the old world colliding.

And what I mean by that is it is the old world in the sense that there's all this money waiting on you on the world. the other side. Right. You should protect yourself for that. Also, the new world of, I've already got this money. So why do I need to like give it, give it all right now? What do I have to prove?

I've already got X million dollars that's coming to me. And so I think that for a lot of people, rather than just making the proper assumption and take everybody's word on its face that he would play if he could, but he can't, they operated on the, see, that's these kids today. And that's what I think I called him up and I think is a touch problematic. And for me it was weird because the guys that cover college basketball

also cover high school basketball. And everybody who watched him in high school said that he was a vicious competitor. He was that dude, that's right? You think he just stopped being like that out of nowhere? Like, for example, this isn't the same. It's not about competition. If you remember when Derek Stingley was going in the draft

and I know he went after sauce Gardner with people like, I don't know, he wasn't that good his last two years. I'm like, so do you think he got worse from when he was the best freshman corner you'd ever seen? Well, that was the thing. Like, you think he became a worse player? How could he impress you more than he did his freshman year? Like that was, that was a thing. I didn't see anything else. It would never, he would never, he would never be able to do anything to live up to that, come out the gate looking like he did. Right. Do you think it all just flipped? And so that was my thing with Peterson

looking at it. It's like, you would have to give an explanation for why it is that you thought that he just didn't want it at all anymore. Right. Because there are, look, there are very few guys whose issue, once they got to the league, was that they simply didn't want it. You had some guys where I think it was so easy they got bored. Derek Coleman, I think is a great example of that. One might argue Rashid Wallace is under that.

The game was just too easy for them, right? Right. Those guys who feel like that aren't six, six. Right. You got to be special to stand out at that side. And you got to want it. You got to want it. You got to want it.

You got to want it. One of a quick thing. Right now it's, Thursday. We're recording this on Thursday. So we don't actually know where LeBron is going to go. That could change between now and then or whatever. But again, once again, one of the most pressing stories this offseason is where LeBron is going to go. Where do you think he's going to go? Where should he go? I would argue it is not one of the pressing stories of the off season. Man. I would argue that we're just curious. It's an interesting story. Well, I mean,

wherever he goes, that's going to be a big deal. Is it, though? Well, I mean, I mean, I mean, I think it'll be big with the press conference. Do we think that LeBron is swinging the balance of power in the NBA with where he goes? I don't think so at all. So let me ask you, if he goes to him, Steve Kerr said something along the lines that we got him. He was joking, but whatever. But Steph, Braun, Anthony Davis, Draymond, what do you think that team is? Well, Anthony Davis isn't there.

And I don't think. Not yet. I don't think. I don't think that happens. I don't. Okay. I don't think teams want Anthony Davis. I think that the physical unreliability is there.

And so that leads us to that. Okay, so if you get those guys. And I guess the only way you pull that off is to trade Jimmy. And I don't get, if you're Washington, why you want 35, 36-year-old Jimmy Butler coming off an ACL tear. Right. Because it got a ripple. Washington thinks they've got something.

I do. So I don't think they trade Anthony Davis at all. I think this. I think if there's a lesson for LeBron to learn from his time with the Lakers is,

don't go someplace where they've hated you forever. It's not going to change. That's right. You know what I mean? I don't think it would be a good look for him to go. It would be interesting,

but it's not pressing. If he goes to Minnesota, that's a basketball like, hmm, we might be cooking with gas here. Hmm. Kind of situation. Philadelphia would just be weird.

I think it seems like a team that will be destined to hate and hate everybody hate each other. Yeah, I just, yeah, also I just, you know, again, it all rests on Joelle and B. No matter if LeBron go there, and if Joel and B can't play, then it don't really matter.

Yeah, but, but I think the counter argument is LeBron James, Tyree's Maxie, Jaylen Brown, and V.J. Eskham, mm-hmm. Man. It's a lot of players, but I just don't, let me tell you, LeBron loses mind playing with Jalen Brown. Kyrie was one thing, you know?

I mean, that's why. Yeah, man, that's real. That's where he's like, man, let me tell you. Let me tell you what I'm not going to listen to today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, hey, hey, slob ala-lakem, look. Look, yeah, say bean pie. Yeah, I'm talking to you. You know what I'm talking to.

I really should say, because this is actually one of my colleagues now, Rich Paul said something along the lines that NBA players don't, they're not excited for LeBron anymore. In fact that they want to root to see him lose. Do you think there's anything to that? he's making that up? Yeah, I mean, why would they be excited about LeBron at this point? Well, because, I mean, I think, I know things are different from the MJ era,

but I just, I can't remember a player of this stature that it just feels like his peers or the people just below him sort of seemed like actively want to go at him or be like, nah, that dude's corny. Yeah, Jordan is a different force of nature as a personality with LeBron. And Jordan wasn't around like that. You know, but like LeBron LeBron's been very around and LeBron's 41 year old

and very heavily attached to social media which is going to make people think you're corny. I mean, I mean, dog, is that not who is on social media? 41 year old? Yeah, but all I'm saying, but we're talking about the guys in the NBA and all I'm saying is somebody's daddy and he is somebody's daddy in the actual league dancing all the time and shit.

like the um you know that that that demystifies you yeah just a little bit i mean we're talking about a generation of athletes that extreme with neon and people like that and you know yeah yeah but i'm just saying he i would i understand the argument that he is demystified that's fair the other thing you have to remember about jordan in the last portions of his career retirement out for two years play three years, retirement, out for three years, then come back. The mystique maintained.

You know, these cats did not grow up wearing LeBron shoes in the way that people grew up wearing Jordans. Like, Mike is just a totally different animal. So, yeah, I'm not surprised that the young guys want to go at LeBron. And LeBron, like I say, LeBron been there forever and LeBron's been getable. That's right. His teens have been getable.

But yeah, this is kind of, you know, is kind of what happens. If you listen to the last, last dance, you see that Jordan's last couple of teams were getable too. You know what I'm saying? The Wizards, people forget about that. They ain't talked about that in the last dance.

No, it's not that people, well, one, of course they didn't talk about in the last dance. That wasn't what the movie was about. Yeah. Two, yeah, Jordan. Yeah, Jordan was getable, but it was Jordan coming off of two years of retirement to play for a team that nobody thought was good.

Like, the expectations was not that Michael Jordan's going to come back and dominate the league. Like that's almost where it's interesting to me about LeBron is that it's almost ironic that part of why this is happening with LeBron is that he's been good enough to matter but also in a way that people feel like they can kind of get him.

And them cats was trying to get Mike when he came back too. They were just blown away by the fact they were playing with Mike. That's true. I mean, again, I submit that if LeBron had gone 37 and 45 of him. It would be a permanent stain on his record. If he did it for the Washington Wizards after two years of retirement, I do not think it would be a permanent stain. I'm not going to compare the Lakers to the Wizards,

but the Lakers had five consecutive losing seasons. They did, right. Right. And I don't think that anything that has happened with the Lakers has been a permanent stain to anybody. LeBron's permanent stain is 2011. That's right. in 2010. Like Michael Jordan came back. Also, we have a different concept now of like different sports medicine is different.

The ideas of longevity or different. Michael Jordan came back at 40 years old, played 82 games at 37 minutes a night or those things like that. Like Jordan came back as an old, as an older player. There was reasonable context attached to his return. Now, if you want to make the argument that people do not evaluate, reasonably, perhaps that is a different discussion. But going 37 and 45 for a team that's not won 50 games in my life, I'll put it to you like this.

As soon as he was gone, two years later, they made the playoffs, but okay. Two years is a long time. Okay. Like, if we're saying, so if LeBron James were retired for two years and came back in 40 and played for a more abundant franchise. Now, if you want to make the argument that part of why the Wizards are more abundant is Michael Jordan's leadership, that's a different discussion. But no, I don't think that coming back at 30, if they were like 21 at 61, yeah, that would be a stain. But I think, I feel like you subscribe and that's that internet thinking, well, what if such and such did the same thing, huh?

Well, you know, you're sensitive because people came at you by saying that LeBron. Was it, what did you on Moripovich when you, when you proffered this? Dude, I did that on Mori Povich show six months ago and the clip just got cut recently. I am not sensitive about it. You just saw it. Okay. All right.

I don't even know what would I be sensitive about about that. Because people were saying, oh, that's exactly what. You think I know what, that's the funny part. This is between me and you. I don't know what they were saying. I don't read that shit. You do that. You put yourself through that misery.

What would they say? My point was very simple. I have made my decision. And I think I know the clip. you're talking about. I think Michael Jordan's a better player than LeBron James historically. You can tell me everything and you can line up all these stats and that's fine. That's not going to change what I saw. I've made my decision. My point was that all these arguments back and forth, I cannot believe you fail for aggregation.

You should be ashamed of yourself. My point is that all these back and forwards that everybody has about this. I made this point at South by Southwest in 2024. You're not changing the fact that I was there in the moment for what it was. I know what it look like. I know what it felt like. If you disagree with me, you're just going to have to be satisfied with being right because I'm not going to argue with you about it. That was what my point was. I don't know why that would engender any sensitivity except for every now and then there's a hater that just need to try to find a way to try to get slick with it and look who's here. No, man, I look, I don't have a problem with it. I mean, I disagree with you and I was there and I

felt like I'm right and I'm happy with being right. Last thing. What did I just say? Yeah, I'm good for you. Now, your 37 and 45 thing is reach, but this good for you. Braun was a better basketball player at 18. He was a better basketball player in his 40s. I don't understand. So, like, in the middle. Oh, it's just, we're just going to ignore the part of the middle. Well, I'm just saying, again, but it wasn't just the part of the middle.

Either of those things matter. Okay. To me, in the grand discussion, he was better at 18. Jordan was in college at 18, so it doesn't matter. Better, okay. He was better at 40. Who cares? He's probably better from 18 to like 24 then, basically.

No, 24-year-old Michael Jordan was better than 24-year-old O'Bron Jacks. But I mean, look, like, if that's how you feel, that's fine. Michael Jordan never gave anybody a reason to think he was a loser. And LeBron did.

And there's no way around that. Well, since we were talking about controversial things, do you want to talk about the Jay-Z show at the Yankee Stadium last week? Okay. Or do you want to move on? I didn't watch any of it,

but it seemed like people had a good time. You don't wish you could have been there? No. I mean, I could have been there if I wanted to. Oh, that's fair point. Okay. That was for people who love Jay-Z and I just like him.

Hmm. I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a, you don't have him as one of your greats? He's, he's one of the greatest rappers who ever lived. He's just not one of my favorites. Hmm.

Those are two different discussions. Okay. That's interesting. What did you make of his, the freestyle? Did you see the clip of the freestyle? Yeah, I mean, it's the same thing we talked about the last time.

Yeah. Well, I mean, this is, who he is. I'm going to write about this. And hopefully, I mean, it's not going to be out before, you know, before then. But I thought, actually, that the shot at Colin Kaepernick was actually, I'm not going to say it was beneath him, but I found it to be shocking. Because I don't, I don't understand taking a shot at Colin Kaepernick, unprompted.

But then I actually do have a copy of Colin Kaepernick's. as yet unreleased auto biography. And then it started to make sense. And I'm not going to say any more than that. You guys are going to have to get the book. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You got to give some idea of what you mean because I don't understand what you mean.

Colin Kaepernick talks about meeting Jay-Z and meeting with Rock Nation in the book. Oh, okay. It didn't go well. In the penultimate chapter. So if you read that book, and hopefully this is not violate the Embarrow. and people, it will increase anticipation for the book.

But people have been saying, why did Jay-Z go after Colin Kaepernick? Why do you go? Why would he even bring that up? If you read the book, and I assume that somebody at Rock Nation got to handle a copy of that. Oh, okay, okay. And so now it makes a lot more sense. But even then, I'm just like, that's not, I don't understand taking a shot at Colin Kaepernick, because first of all, it's not the same thing.

He reached a settlement with the league that was. was not a non-discharagement. It was just not to close. They couldn't disclose what all was going on with, you know, what the terms of the deal was. And also, it was recompensed for them, blackballing them out of the league, basically. Right. And so I just, again, I know that Jay-Z is who he is. Like, he's told us who he is from day one. But I thought that was a misstep. But again, his fans seemed to eat it up. Well, so, okay, in line with what I said about the concert. The concerts were for people who loved him. And so he could get away with that in real time

with the people at the concert because those are the people who love him. I mean, the man calls himself Jehovah. Right? Like, it's not, this is a different... We don't talk about Jay-Z stands as the stands that they are. Well, because they're our cohort.

Yeah, yeah, but even still, they don't, like... I mean, yeah, I guess that's fair. But there's a devotion that comes in the way that people talk about Jay-Z. And Jay-Z, Jay-Z has achieved the American dream in the most standard, typical way that people talk about the American dream. And he has become what a lot of these rappers, which they could have become, a lot of these people out here all the way down to the wife he's got, right? Like, he's won in so many ways.

And he just can't handle the idea that there's any, that doesn't like worship that fact because look what he did was very very difficult to do and what he pulled off is very difficult and impressive in its own way but that's not enough for him

he also needs it in a way where we all must revere him and assume the goodness of all of his intentions and the truth is the way his explanations for how he went from saying, I don't need the NFL to working with the NFL, don't hold water. Right. Right. Now, I have been told at the time that Rock Nation had bought

the company that had that Super Bowl halftime deal. And then it's like, oh, let's see, what's going on. Like, it was almost like a serendipitous sort of thing that it all came together. But his we're past kneeling, he's always going to have to answer for that. And, that's different than Michael Jordan, Republicans wear tennis shoes, because Jordan was just joking. Right. Right. Like, Jay-Z said this in front of everybody. Those owners had already said that they needed a black figurehead to make them look better.

Terry Peggola said that, like, it was a clear quote when he said that and Jay-Z became that person. And by the way, we still rock out with the halftime shows and everything else. But the truth is, no, man, that was a bad look for you. Right. And for I maybe it's because he has no proper retort for it. But his thing is, y'all talk about it. Oh, now y'all want to talk about Cap again. We want to talk about it because you never did in a way that people found to be satisfactory.

Right. You just didn't. Right. Right. And I mean, and to compound that, I mean, look, man, there's a lot of retailers in America and in the world, right? If you were looking to release the 30th anniversary edition of reasonable doubt. That's a bad look, man. There's a lot of people that you could release that album with, bro.

Why did it have to be Target? You know, it did not have to be Target. And again, he did the big, well, you still use the iPhone. See, that was exactly it, right? Yeah. Like, well, you're going to say something about me, but are you still going to do da-da-da? Brother, you can't escape Amazon. That's impossible.

Right, yeah, right? Like, no, no, you did not have, here's my, and this is the question he can't answer. if you got all that money and you can't take that little bit of a stand that little bit that isn't even really a stand no then what good is the money

right well that's what the freedom the argument for all of this has been and he's made it explicitly in his music and in the very few interviews that he gives is that he thinks that that money gives him a freedom right they're like I can't be the poor if I'm one of them

yeah but where's the freedom right That's what I'm saying. Like, you still don't have enough money for the, you're still working toward that freedom? All money is not good. That's the thing. All money isn't good money. But the thing that is very frustrating about this is that his fans, his devotees,

they don't even see, they don't, they eat that up. Like, they accept that. And I just like the, the can't knock the hustle, a ethos that has pervaded this country over the last, you know, whatever basis is founding, but certainly even more so in the last generation or so. It's just really been disappointing because I'm just like, yo, like some hustles you actually cannot. This country and the religion to which the majority of that country subscribes

believes that richness is nobility. And if you have a certain level of rich, you are noble by definition. Yeah. Right? Like, that's why every time, ooh, we got a black billionaire. Take Byron Allen, for example. Who ask people how Byron Allen made all that money.

Right. You know what I mean? Like Bob Johnson. Go ask people how Bob Johnson made all that money. And what came with that and everything else? It's just the idea that simply being rich is something that you should praise, especially like when you, when y'all had put them clips up the last time I was on and we talked about Jay Z. And Fat Joe came in the comments.

I guess I said, I don't admire Jay Z. Jay Z being rich doesn't inspire me. And Fat Joe said, well, if you had, come out of the projects to get to where he is, it would inspire you, which I think is a fair point because I didn't come out of the project. So therefore, this is not inspirational to me in that regard. Like, I can see why there is something,

there's an inspirational quality to go from where he started to where he ended up. If where he ended up is a place that you would want to be. And I don't think I'd want to be where he is. That's just not the stuff that I want to do. That's not where I would want to end up personally, right? Like, let me tell you something. Jay Electronica going from Magnolia to be in a Rothschild.

That's crazy work. That's as crazy as the Jay-Z work, to be perfectly honest. How'd you do that? I mean, the n-O-I, bro. Yeah, I got to, honestly, that move right there is more shocking it against the odds than where Jay-Z wild up. It's crazy. That is crazy.

That's true. Like, when he think about that, Jay Z sold some dope and then turned that into some proper investments and made it work. He watched that line. Yeah, like, Tronica ain't sold nothing. I mean, bro. I mean, seriously. And how did he end up there, bro?

He got to knock up Erica Badoo and become a Rothschild in some form or fashion. Insane. Man, he needs to write his memoir. That's what the thing is. We need to hear from him. I have a friend that is adamant that is that he is the biggest scam in the history of rap. Wait, do we both, do we both throw this friend? No.

Okay, all right, okay. Well, anyway, but yet to your point, and I can close, I mean, the idea that you're right, that people, the wealth is nobility here, it's the only thing that explains why somebody is repulsive is Elon Musk has fans. Because there's nothing, there to admire. Like, that does not look like a person whose life you would want to have, a person, the kind of person you would want to be. He doesn't seem happy.

He will even admit that in public sometimes. But yet and still, there are a lot of people that if you say something about him negative, they would show up and be like, how can you not admire what he did? You know, all that kind of show. Let me tell you something. 25 years ago, I was taking a financially managerial accountant course in graduate school. And I was reading this book by Sean Salle, Sean Selle, it's a sex lot and headlock. It was a history of the WWF at the time.

And I remember his cat rolled up on me. And it was his Asian dude. His English was not the strongest. not do an impression of him. But he says, Vince McMahon, I love him. I had never heard anybody say

nothing like that before in my life. That's wild, man. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, well, he's just such a great promoter. And I was like, oh, okay.

That's not how I look at the world, but apparently that's you, big dog. You know what that makes me realize? There's Don King fans out there. Hey, man. And I'll say you this. If you love Jay-Z, you should really love Don. Oh, Don King got it out the mud, bro.

Don's one of them dudes that was the smartest dude in every room that he walked in. Yeah, man. You know, like, Don pulled off some magic. Man, he makes the shit happen, man. Does he have a memoir? I need to look that up. There's got to be something. There is.

Not that you mentioned it, I wouldn't like to read that. If not, somebody needs to get on that. But anyway, well, I've held you long enough. Thank you to the great Beaumani Jones. Check him out at the right time with Beaumani Jones three or four times a week depending on if he's traveling somewhere around the globe. Hey man, we're on summer hours, man.

It's two or three for the summer. We'll be back to four in September. I will be listening to every episode, including the ones where you allow people to call in and call me a hate on your show, but that's fine. We also listen to the episodes where you get on and hate. Also, you know, I'm not going to even talk about how you sort of my argument for the boycott on the SEC,

I felt like that wasn't a fair representation of the argument. We'll talk about that some other time. Didn't you make the argument yourself? No, I felt like the argument, the argument that I said that you don't have to take less money, you can take money from somewhere else. But that's fine. Well, you also said, I don't think it's that big a sacrifice

to take $5 million instead of $6. I see, you know what? You did say that. Okay, all right. Well, you know what? Look, so be it. All right. We just sit here and talk about it.

about what we admire people and the money and all that stuff. And so, you know what? Yeah, maybe if I said that, then I guess I got to stand by it. But what I really meant was that you could take that money. If you make, if Mississippi State want to give you $6 million, I bet Michigan State will want to give you $6 million. But that's fine. I was trying to get out of here, man.

Thank you, Beau. I'm Joel Anderson. Production Magic by John Jones. Next week, Brian is back from the road. some of y'all will be very excited about that. Some of y'all might wish y'all could hear more of this, and maybe you will at some other point. So until then, y'all be easy.

And look, read something while you got some time, please. A good book. A good book. Try it.