The Press Box - Can CNN Survive the Paramount Merger? Plus: The Next Host of ‘Inside the NBA.’

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

Today on The Press Box, Bryan and David discuss potential retirements on 'Inside the NBA,' the Paramount–Warner Bros. deal finally going through (9:09), and potential Halloween costumes for the pod (21:34). Then Bryan is joined by Lachlan Cartwright from Breaker to talk about James and Lachlan Murdoch (27:15). Plus, David Shoemaker Guesses the Strained-Pun Headline! Subscribe to Bryan's newsletter here! Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David Shoemaker Guest: Lachlan Cartwright Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Jon Jones Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Limited time offer see website for details. David? Yes. You might have seen the news the other day that Charles Barkley is retiring from television. Is this the news he made on Bill's podcast? Was there a... It was.

He also doubled down later. This is Charles Barkley's 14th retirement from television. So we want to congratulate him on finally leaving the medium that is paying him many millions of dollars to discourse on the NBA. If he doesn't retire, do we just stop talking about him in protest, just pretend he's retired?

That's why he's clearly not retiring because he would not like that to happen. An interesting thing in this retirement announcement was that he said his retirement was tied to that of Ernie Johnson. He told Bill that he and Ernie are a package deal and unless Ernie changes his mind, this following season will be Charles's last on TV. Funny note about that, Ryan Glassbeagle reported front office sports that Ernie Johnson has not actually decided to retire. Another good reason to just treat any Barclay proclamation with, you know, with, what's the word I'm looking for? Handlewood kit gloves. Take it with a grain of salt. Kenny Smith is just like, is just like setting things on fire in the studio just trying to get someone to pay attention to his job security, but, you know, to no avail.

But let's take Barkley at his word in one area. Okay. Ernie Johnson might retire. Mm-hmm. And let's say that you and I were working at ESPN

or perhaps Turner Sports and we were trying to find a host of Inside the NBA who would not only be great on that show but whose presence might cause Barclay to reconsider. Mm-hmm. Who would be the next host of Inside the NBA?

Well, we've thought about this. Listen, there's a lot of people you could go to. I mean, I think that right off the bat, you start thinking of who does Barclay have relationships with, any of the various fill-in hosts over the years, you know, would that evoke some sort of loyalty pledge from Charles Barkley? But if the question is like, who should replace Ernie, I think that there would be, I know, I think if this was two years ago, there would be a lot of theorizing that it would be like Stephen A. Smith and people would be up in arms about whether, you know, you just go to like the biggest names.

Like, is it Mike Greenberg? You know, I mean, like, he's done some turns, some NBA stuff for them. And certainly has literally everything on ESPN. Yeah. And certainly has the greatest, you know, maybe like universal competence at such things. It's sitting in the middle of the table and taking a good ribbing, you know. But if it was up to me, if we were making this decision, I don't know if this is like a moonshot. I don't know if this is wild. But I think that the right answer is Scott Van Pelt.

I think temperamentally, sort of, he is more expansive than Ernie, but he's a temperamental match. he's clearly able just to I mean anybody that's done a one-man booth has a leg up on the competition and he's done solo sports center for how long? How long has that been going on now? No offense to Stanford C. but it's going on for years and years and years

almost as long as the ringer's been alive. And listen, I'm not saying those two jobs are mutually exclusive but whatever he set out to do when he started his sports center gig he has accomplished, right? I mean like he's like it would be totally fair game for him to say I'm moving on to something else.

I don't know if he'd be interested in that job. I mean, it's hard to imagine he wouldn't be interested in the job on some level, but I don't know if that would be the next step in his career. But he's right in that sweet spot. He's a decade younger than Ernie and right in that and certainly, you know, feels very youthful for his age. I think he would just be perfect. I think he'd be perfect for that.

I think if you're going to do the exact same show and bring somebody else into Ernie's spot, Kenny Jet Shacker's still there. I mean, sorry. Charles Jet Shacker still there. And you don't just want, you know, a soup can and they're just filling up space. I think SVP would be the move. SVP is right where my mind went too.

You say temperamental match. That's exactly right. The thing about Ernie Johnson is that he can host a show, he can be the traffic cop, but he also has this ability to talk about things outside of sports to be a little bit personal and emotional when the time is right. That's exactly what SVP is on SportsCenter. He's a guy when he drives off road, you trust that he's not going to steer you into a ditch, that he knows how to handle those things.

he's also not going to be manipulative or go there too much. When the occasion calls for it, he can work on that terrain. I think I can just easily imagine him on that show. And I don't think you'd have to give up Midnight SportsC. I mean, he is doing it from Washington, D.C. So maybe there'd be some plane flights to Atlanta and some jury rigging of the thing. Also, you know, can we just, when we have inside the NBA after a late game on ESPN, do we need sports?

can we just let it roll into the night? He can do the highlights from that show and let Barkley and Jet and Shaq just talk about it. So we just make it one thing. Hey, tonight we're doing Inside the NBA slash Ports. It also sort of bridges the gap between Inside and ESPN in a way that this season, you know, that they haven't quite figured out yet.

ESPN, to their great credit, has let it operate on its own. And this season we'll see a lot of that. But, you know, I'm sure they would prefer there to be some sort of connected. tissue there. You also mentioned like what does SVP want to do with this life?

There was that idea that he might get a late afternoon show on ESPN, which to me was like, why would you want a late afternoon show on ESPN?

Yeah. This is a time of day when people are just doing other stuff and the idea that people are sitting there waiting for a show on linear television

at that time of day. That just struck me as a terrible idea. This is actually interesting though. Now, inside the NBA now is a strange kind of beast

where it's produced by Turner and licensed by ESPN. So maybe there's some contractual hurdles that would have to be the that someone would have to leap over there. But I like the idea. SVP as the next toast to be inside the NBA. If only if Bernie Johnson is indeed retiring,

again, let's not trust Charles Barkley too much on that. And you keep the show as intact as you possibly can. Yeah. And there. Something there. All right, David, coming up on the press box, the Paramount Warner Brothers deal has finally closed. What's going to happen to news at the new company and what's going to happen to sports?

I want to have some literary Halloween costume talk with you. Some decisions must be made. Plus, Lockland Cartwright of the newsletter Breaker joins me to talk about Rupert Murdoch and his adult sons. All that much more on the press box. A part of the ringer podcast network. Hello media consumers. Brian, it's David. It's Isaiah Blakely and John Not Bones-Jones,

twisting and tweaking the dials. I would like to direct everyone before we begin our intense discussion of the media today to my new newsletter over at Substack. It's called Now They Tell Us. The first edition is up. You can read it right now. There will be a column that is landing in your inbox very soon about Tony Romo. David knows that because David did.

the art for it. And by the way, the art treatment, told you this offline, but the art treatment for now they tell us looks absolutely fantastic. Thank you. As always, you also came up with this awesome idea where we're going to have photos of whomever I'm writing about. And they're going to look like a photo that is on a physical, in a physical newspaper. Have that quality. When your stuff is designed by David Shoemaker, it's a little stuff. It's 20% better. Let me tell you. Anyway, Now they tell us it's on substack. It's absolutely free. It's free.

Sign up right now. David, I want to talk to you about the Paramount Warner Brothers merger. Let's do it. It finally closed on Tuesday. How many months of our lives have we been waiting for this merger to finally reach its end point? If you want to know about the movie parts of this deal, I direct you to the law firm of Fennessee and Bellany. White shoe lawyers, David, not injury, personal injury attorneys. I thought we should talk about news and sports in particular.

News, of course, means CNN. We got news this week that Mark Thompson, who runs CNN, is going to stay on and continue to run CNN. Under the aegis of David Ellison. Yep. That is a big old short-term win for CNN. But I underline the word short-term. Yeah. Barry Weiss is not running both CBS News and CNN right now,

but there's absolutely nothing stopping Ellison from changing his mind six months from now, or a year from now, putting the news divisions under the leadership of one person. I would also say this. I am still bearish on the idea that CNN is going to remain. recognizable CNN in the new company. And I'll give you three reasons why I'm bearish. Number one, CNN is pretty much counting on David Ellison's benevolence. Oliver Darcy had an interesting note in his newsletter status the other day that

Ellison, when he gave this press conference, after the deal closed, said, well, you know, we were having these relationships with the Trump administration. But now the deal's closed. Almost as if, hey, you know, we were having to do some things and say some things and throw some parties because we didn't want the administration to interfere with this giant business deal. Now that it's closed, hey, you can cut loose and reveal my true self. I am pretty dubious about that. But like I said a minute ago, it just goes back to, does he really want CNN to be the CNN we recognize? Does he not want it to be politically tinged?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I don't think that the first part, I don't know that I'm that dubious of it. I mean, when you think about the amount of money that was in play here, whether or not he did anything he wouldn't have done, that had to be the guiding principle. Let's get this thing across the finish line, you know?

And I'm sure they made a lot of decisions that in their mind helped make that happen. but to be dubious about like well would he have not hired barry wice i mean that yeah sure maybe i i presume he still would have like you know whatever um but it is injury i mean it you said for the time being at the beginning of of of discussion i think that's the real operative term and i think it's really hard to foretell much beyond that i know over in the if i may over in the pro wrestling sphere wrestling fans are constantly freaking out because Turner's apart owner in AEW wrestling,

the number two wrestling organization. They have a big time slot on TBS on TNT and, you know, or a presence on HBO Max. And everybody's worried that due to, you know, preexisting personal relationships with TCO, the owners of WWE, that they'll just sort of like show AEW the door. And what I've been preaching since the beginning is like, whole, like, not just AED, but, like, wrestling in general is a rounding error right now.

And whatever you want to say about what the future may hold, there are so many bigger things on Skydance's agenda. It'll take them years to get to this decision, right? And I think that in some sense, CBS, I mean, sorry, CNN is like that as well. a bigger fish, but still, that's down the road. And you certainly don't want to be just doing, just upending,

well, I mean, you don't want to sink some of the value of what you just bought as when they're in the process of streamlining this and turning it into a positive investment. So I think that it'll probably be safe for a while. And like I said,

the last time we talked about this, I think it's good if they ever do want to change CNN, let's let's see it, keep CNN, the same and let and so we can blame them when we make the change you know they didn't they didn't they whoever you know they didn't do everything they could have done and there's also the PR aspect of this you think it was bad PR for the Ellisons when a couple of semi notable anchors left 60 minutes I mean just imagine if the masthead of CNN walked out the door you know I mean it could be that that could be

you want to keep CNN as a viable thing semi separate from CBS News no matter what the few no matter what your political or or business ideology is if everybody if everybody who's name was on a show walked out the door you couldn't do that the only thing you could do is just to absorb them and cross your fingers and hope for the best all right so that's part of the bullish case that I subscribe to because I think there is a scenario where Ellison believes in Barry Weiss he wants Barry Weiss to lead CBS News going forward but he is very cognizant of the damage she has done to CBS News. He has also done to CBS News.

Yes, very much at his at his behest done to CBS News. So he looks at CNN and says, hey, let's not do that again. Let's not sync the value of this thing. Or at least not let's not do that again right away. Right. Yes. Let's not have Anderson Cooper didn't want to continue on 60 minutes. We don't want Anderson Cooper to then walk out the door at CNN.

Yep. I think that. But again, you're counting on his benevolence or his mood or his decision-making. There's nothing installed in here that's going to keep him from just changing his mind. Sure. But that benevolence is what every legacy media institution counts on in some form or fashion now. Every publishing house, every newspaper and increasingly, every television, every, like, terrestrial TV station, it's all dependent on the on the benevolence of some rich person or or hedge fund another reason

I'm bearish on CNN remaining CNN there's always one of everything at a newly merged company stealing this idea from Dylan Byers right okay you got one of this over here and one of this over here we end of the company we got to pick one person the new company skydance is already done that with sports. They had David Berson who run CBS sports and they had Louise Silverwasser who ran T&T sports. Alex Sherman broke the story the other day that Silverwasser's out and Berson will be the new sports guy at the company. So are you really going to have two different news chiefs going forward? You might think CBS News and CNN are different entities. We may say, okay, we're combining some of the reporting on the back end. Are you really going to have two people?

long term, I'm skeptical. Yep. Here's reason number three. I'm a little bearish. We don't know how CNN is going to make money going forward. Remember every time we have a cable news person on this podcast and I always ask them, as Stephanie rule this summer, okay, what is going to happen that's going to make people under the age of 40 pay for cable news?

What is going to happen to? CNN's been trying to figure this out. Thompson has some ideas. They put the website behind a paywall. By the way, website got better when it went behind a paywall. What it wasn't like less interesting daily mail. It was like,

oh, you paid for this. You're some quality articles. I'm always pleasantly surprised when I click on a CNN.com link now. But they're figuring out the whole business of how is CNN going to be viable going forward. And when you're in that position of vulnerability, that's when somebody swoops in and says, hey, forget the ideological parts of this.

Forget how respected you are in the industry, Mr. Thompson. We've got to take over and do something different. That's what makes you vulnerable. And again, that's why I'm a tad bearish. I drove past Sports Illustrated Stadium on the way here. So I just want to. Speaking of entities that are not what they want to. I guess having the naming rights to assign.

soccer stadium is better than just being like the logo on a random shirt at Marshalls. So, yeah, it means so SI might be turning in the right direction. But, but, you know, the value, the, the whatever value of the brand of CNN could mean different things to different people. Truly can. I want to take you to sports over at Skydance. Awful announcing, Sam Newman had a great recounting of everything that is going to be in this new company.

So CBS brings the NFL, college football, and golf. T&T slash Turner brings MLB, including the postseason, NHL, NASCAR, and tennis. Also, you'll remember the NCAA tournament has had this weird schism for years and years now, where we get to see part of it under CNN, part of it, excuse me, me on Turner. Now that's going to be under one corporate roof. Yep. T&T and Turner Sports also has been really, really desperate to retain its viability. After the NBA rights walked out the door. Yeah. One of the strangest things they've done, or I mean, again, it's strange that makes a ton of sense is basically lease college football

playoff games from ESPN. Yep. ESPN at present owns the entire college football football playoff, but they lease certain games to Turner, which helps ESPN get some money back and also gives Turner sports a reason to exist, TNT sports. Yeah. It would be interesting to see how that continues under the new company. But that's a pretty good sports portfolio. Yeah. I mean, I think that the leasing of games might be the first thing on the chopping blockboats in terms of like balancing the books and also just necessity.

When you're one empire, you know, you don't need, you're not just looking for sports anchors. to keep people coming back to the other rights that you're 100% in. But that is, it is, that is really healthy. I mean, I don't know when the last time you would have gone to like the sports tab on the HBO Go app, or the, sorry, the HBO Now app. But it's pretty sparse at times, you know? And the thing that we always talk, Bill talks about it a lot that in the, you know, in the streaming era, sometimes the hardest thing is just to like figure out where the thing is that you want to watch even though you know you own the ability to watch it you've paid for the ability to watch it the more that you can you know the more that you can lay claim to in one spot that pretty quickly has is that the best sports portfolio i mean i guess yespns i think would still be better though the espion doesn't have a full sunday of NFL games that's interesting question because Yeah, I mean, really, it's just how much NFL can you lay claim to?

You know, how much NBA can you lay claim to in terms of like anchors? But it's, I mean, that is a huge portfolio. Not to mention the UFC. Yeah. Which is on Paramount's app. I should add that in there for the new company. Can we talk Halloween for a second? Yeah, please.

I've been putting together some Halloween costume ideas with the fam. we went to this place in Burbank that's like the year-round Halloween store. So not Spirit Halloween, but the actual like this is a cool brick and mortar business. They were looking at all the costumes. And I had a few ideas. And then I was like, wait a second.

Halloween is on a weekend this year. You and I do the press box on Thursdays in a normal week. Should we have literary themed press box Halloween on our final episode before the holiday? Yes, absolutely. This does sort of, this does sort of limit my masked man show Halloween options. I was looking at some face paint things. I don't know if I could do...

These don't feel mutually exclusive to me, but okay. But yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Why not? So do you want to talk through some ideas, or are we talking about a surprise? Let me talk through a few ideas. Okay. Just to kind of get your sense of this. one idea I had and I only had this idea because I bought a bust of this gentleman last year

to be part of our Curtis family Halloween decor. Edgar Allan Poe. Sure. It turns out that Edgar Allan Poe is actually a packaged Halloween costume with an old-fashioned looking suit. Oh, you can get him at the costume shop. Yeah. He's like sexy, sexy nurse and Edgar Allan Poe are two things you can buy in a package. And he has a raven on his shoulder.

great as he was famously known to have yeah when I found out this it's really really sold the really sold the bit pretty well when I found out it was a package thing I was a little less excited about being Edgar Allan Poe but that's one idea

here's my other idea I'm more excited about this one what if I were 70 Stephen King for Halloween I got kind of a full 70s man hair wig. Uh-huh.

I got some appropriately retro glasses. Stephen King is just a studying eye wear. You've got like a bottle of prescription amphetamines falling out of your pocket. 70s 80s Stephen King was a fun time guy. I thought I could wear a sports coat and then I was like, okay,

now what would Stephen King wear? How would anybody notice this? But you know there's a T-shirt that just says based on the novel by Stephen King. It has kind of cool old-timey movie credits writing? Yes, yeah, absolutely. Could I pull that off in a way that would make our press box audience happy? Yeah, I think that there's definitely a way to go with. I mean, there's definitely a direction here, for sure.

Okay. It's just that his face is such an important part of his. I don't know. Like, if they did Stephen King on SNL, there would be like a prosthetic, some prosthetic teeth or something. So I don't know of just, I don't know of just the everything else really drives the point home, but yeah, maybe so. I kind of think you need to go with more of a meta approach. The t-shirt's a good idea. You need to go with more of a meta approach, though, and introduce blood into it somehow or, you know, something. Just have a bunch of takes about Troy Jackson versus Susan Collins in the Senate race up there in Maine. Exactly. That's a Stephen King. We know. Mm-hmm. If you have ideas for David or for me, press box ringer at gmail.com

these must be literary journalistic it must be in our press box zone I guess it could also be a concept like occupied CNN the list of writers who people would recognize who could just identify the photo

is pretty short I'm not talking about modern like you know modern people who have appeared on ESPN or something sure but like just famous writers who you would know just from a photo. How long is that list?

Pretty, pretty short. I'm just trying to think of novelists from our lifetime. Who else would you have to instantly recognize? Like, you'd have to go, it would be like, Mark Twain. Edgar Allan Poe. Edgar Allan Poe. You could go like, you know,

Dasuevsky or Tolstoy, but I'm not sure anybody would know the difference. I don't. I would not recognize those gentlemen. James Joyce, for the ball knowers, People like James Joyce is definitely a unique looking fellow. Good one. A Norman Mailer cut a certain figure. Yeah.

Yeah. Mailer's not a bad idea. If you want Norman, David to be Norman Mailer for Halloween. Also email us. David Foster Wallace, although I'm not sure. Yeah, for the ball knowers, absolutely. He's great. I think there's probably a really incredible costume and like Thomas Pynchon costume

that you could pull off out there. Just the like, the, like, some like a grainy black and white photo of you for a face or something like no one knows quite what you look like there is a recent photo of him that was no i know but but the gimmick would be that he's mysterious right tom clancy with some coke bottle glasses oh yeah grisham like people know but that's like but he's not interesting looking that's not a costume yeah um the the clancy one is really good i don't know i don't know who else okay press box record gmail write us recognizable writers that david and i could be on a Halloween episode of this podcast.

All right, David, time for our special guest. All right, let us welcome in our special guest. He is Lockland Cartwright. He writes the essential media newsletter, Breaker, which I gobbled up last night. Fast forward to the Sharon Waxman mentions, if you want a good laugh. This week, our friend Lockland broke out of Breaker

to write about the Murdoch Boys for the revived new establishment issue of Vanity Fair, where he is a contributing editor, we're always so happy to have him and his fedora here at the press box. Lachlan, welcome back to the show. Gidey, Brian. Thanks to having me back on. Great to be here.

So I try to remain neutral in the issue of media newsletters. You're all my sons. You and Oliver and Max and Dylan and everybody else. But I had a friend in media tell me this the other day, and I'm going to share this with you. He said, I prefer breaker because there's actual news in it. Oh, that's very kind. I must throw that person money. But I have new competition because you've launched your yourself.

Well, let's just. Reading. So you're going to get a break or run for its money. Well, but if they want actual news, they're still going to be turning to you. Let's just put it that way instead of, you know, chin stroking and finger pointing in my place. Let's talk about your stories about the Murdoch boys. And we'll start with James Murdoch, who is the Murdoch outside the empire. He's creating his own media empire now.

He bought Vox and with it New York Magazine. which once upon a time was owned by his father, Rupert. Why did James Murdoch want to own New York magazine? Yeah, it's a tale of two Murdoch brothers. Vanity Fair reached out to me several months ago and said we were bringing back the new establishment list and we're assigning you the two brothers, James and Lachlan. And so I put in the ask for interviews and one brother said yes and said yes to an interview with his wife and the other said no.

So I sat down with James and Catherine and spent about an hour at their office. officers at Luper, and I put that question to them. You know, why are they, you know, forking out 300 million for Vox and New York Magazine and the Pod Network? And they really see this as a key part of what they're building at Luper, which up until now had been a collection of different properties, including the Tribeca Film Festival, including Art Basil, including this Ideas Festival that they're looking to get off the ground. And really, they're sort of building a culture company. And they see New York Magazine as a key. part of it and investing in long-form journalism and the pod network. And I think part of it will be

leveraging these assets together. So you're going to see New York Mag collaborate with the likes of the Tribeca Film Festival with the likes of Art Basil as they build this company out. But really, if you take a look back, this is James's real re-entry into media. He did not like when I sort of brought that up, because that's a touchy subject for obvious reasons. But it really is. his comeback into media since leaving Fox and NewsCorp behind. And, you know, you can see in his eyes that, you know, they really have big plans and ambitions for this. And I think part of it will be investing more in New York Mag, you know, bringing alive more of their politics coverage as well and events. He made a lot of noises to you about New York Magda, where what we would say in the

media are the right noises, said he did not want to be a slave to the algorithm. He had a great phrase where he called it mechanized pandering, right? I don't want to turn this into some kind of, you know, AI bot that's just spitting out stories you want. You can tell he went to Harvard, right? Yes, right. Yes, exactly. That's the kind of metaphor you get at a kind of phrase you get over at that place. I did want to ask you this, though, nobody buys a media entity just to keep it like it is. And other than sort of coordinating with the Tribeca Film Festival, other than pouring more money in a podcast or in, excuse me, politics coverage. What do you think he wants to do with New York Mac? Yeah, I think he wants to sort of take it to the next level to compete against the

likes of the Atlantic and the likes of the New Yorker. I mean, I have to give Jim Bankoff a tremendous amount of credit for landing the plane here when all of the other digital media properties around him have crumbled and ended up in the digital media graveyard, including, you know, the likes of BuzzFeed and Huffpo and Vice. And also David Hassel. for keeping the consistency of this magazine intact. But I think that James and Catherine have real ambitions for this publication to be, you know, in the same conversation as the likes of the Atlantic and the New Yorker. Is it true that in your interview, James wouldn't even mention his father's name?

That's correct. And I pressed him several times. And I used several different inroads to try and, you know, get in there. And he just was having none of it. He just shut down on me every single time. The only little bit that I was able to. sort of, you know, get out of him as when I said, did Project Harmony, the non-so-ironic title, codename for this audacious plot by Lachlan and Rupert to rewrite the family trust, which

saw them all in Nevada in that courtroom, you know, did that bring him closer to his sister's Elizabeth and Prudence? And he said, it was lovely to spend quality time weeks on end in Nevada, jokingly. But, you know, anytime I tried to get near anything about his father's legacy, I also tried to draw him out on what he thinks of the current state of Fox News, bearing in mind, I was the journalist several years ago at the Daily Beast that went to them and other members of the Murdoch family to ask their opinions about coverage in Murdoch properties about the Australian bushfires. And he came back with an absolutely stinging statement criticizing them. And that led to his stepping down from the board of news corps, but led to this rift with his

brother and father, which ultimately led to Project Harmony and the fact that they are now estranged. But those were the two words that were really off limits. That was Rupert and Loughlin. How does he square being a good steward of New York Magazine and also sitting on the board of Tesla with Elon Musk? So that's something I again pressed him on and something I think that he was not too happy about me bringing up. But I asked him that.

I said, look, mate, you know, here you have all these political causes that you're invested in, whether it's climate. You know, they're donating to all of these candidates right now. including Tala Rico and Mary Potola through majority Democrats, a centrist group. Here are all these altruistic causes you're invested in, but yet you're sitting on the board of Tesla, which is obviously Elon Musk's company, Elon Musk, who owns X and has turned that into a misinformation cesspit. And he really tried to steer that question back to say, you know, Tesla's a separate entity. Test is doing incredible work. He asked me if I've sat in one

of their self-driving cars, which I have not. And then I asked him again about that, which he just sort of battered away. But it is, it is really a wrinkle in this that he still is on the board of Tesla, which, you know, Elon has done, you know, some real sort of harm and also as an architect of Doge. You mentioned the political donations that James and Catherine Murdoch have made. Tala Rico, Peltola, and also Josh Turrick in Iowa. The through line there is they are looking for centrist? Yeah, that's, I mean, that's kind of this organization that they're a party of majority Democrats, this is how a lot of the money is being distributed when you go through the filings, the Electoral Commission filings, you start to see drops of money coming in from them

and then also from majority Democrats on their behalf. But I think this is their way of trying to sort of balance the scales. I asked Catherine Murdoch, do they see this as a way to sort of reset after Trump and that that was something that she confirmed to me. But this is a real thing for them. And it's not just those three candidates. There's dozens and dozens and dozens that they are giving money to. And it's clear to me that they really do want to try and reset the conversation politically after this administration. Let's talk about Lachlan Murdoch, the other Lachlan, as it were. He wouldn't sit down with me. Who would not sit down with this Lachlan. He would not sit down with this Lachlan. He's still inside the empire.

Fox bought Roku recently. That was a huge deal. What do you think makes Fox a viable media company going forward? I think Lachlan has been very smart with, you know, just sticking to a couple of plays, which is live sports and live news. So Fox have had tremendous success with, you know, the World Cup rights, with their NFL rights, and also with with Fox News. And I think that, you know, that's been the place that he has kind of,

really sort of, you know, concentrated on. And now by bringing Roku in is really the biggest, the biggest bet that he has made. You know, it's a $20 billion bet. James Murdoch, the Australian billionaire, a friend of his who he used to go in business with, you know, said it's, it's Lachlan's bet, not Rupert's. It's the biggest bet he has made. And it's sort of the bet after, you know, him coming out of the shadows and really coming out of Rupert's shadow, sorry, and being named the successor. And it's, you know, now he owns sort of the infrastructure on which people stream. You know, Rupert did an incredible job of controlling, you know, distribution and content. And I think this is Lachlan's way of making sort of a digital, you know, play on that.

So if we think about Fox for the next 10 years as the media world changes beneath our feet, it's Roku, it's live sports, especially football, and it's Fox News. Yeah. Those are the pillars of Fox. Those are the lanes. When you listen to him speak, whether it's at an investor conference or on earnings, or I speak to people in his inner circle, He doesn't talk about the newspapers. And that's going to be something to watch when Rupert does go to the big news from the sky because there is going to be a lot of movement that will go on on that front. I can tell you that much.

But he does talk a lot about life sports and life news. And that's where they've had a lot of success financially because the ratings for those have been sky high. Although what it is fascinating and I had a column in Breaker last night is sort of to watch Fox News start to turn away from Trump. And that is in part because their numbers have taken a hit. You know, I was looking at Fox's ratings from September last year compared to September this year.

They're down 32% total viewers, 44% in the key demo during prime time. And even on Monday nights, Rachel Maddow up against Hannity, which usually is Hannity's time slot, Mattour 1.9, Hannity 1.4 million in that 25 to 54 demo. So you are starting to see noticeable changes on air at Fox. And as one former executive told me, that's because they see where the viewers are going. And the viewers are starting to switch off from Trump. For instance, for yesterday, they were running water wall coverage of the French riots. Another TV exec compared it to me as if they were watching the BBC.

So there is some really interesting stuff going on with Fox News now. You know there was always going to be a break with Trump. It was just when would it happen? Right. And how dramatic would it be? Correct. And we're a month out of the midterms. And, you know, his popular idea is an all-time low.

Fox are masterful about following the audience. And that's where the audience is going. They're switching off on Trump. I always had this image of Rupert just holding a dial, you know, somewhere in a control room and saying, you know, we've got to tack 15 degrees this way. Well, the other interesting juxtaposition, mate, is that I broke a story last Thursday that last Tuesday,

Rupert Murdoch, Robert Thompson, Rebecca Brooks, the editor of the York Post, Keith Paul, Emma Tucker, the editor of the Journal and Paul Gigo, the Wall Street Journal opinion editor, were all having dinner with Trump at the White House. Also with Scott Bessent, Marco Rubio, Stephen Chung, Caroline Lovett, Susie Wiles. And that was part of a reset for the journal's relationship with Donald Trump, bearing in mind the $10 billion lawsuit about the Epstein story they broke. There are a number of opinion pieces that Bessett took umbrage with. And so you have just these different split screens that are going on right now with Murdox relationship with Trump that are just

really fascinating to watch. And to add another one, another reset to your pile there, how about Rupert and Trump with when it comes to the NFL with Roger Goodell, right? You know, so Rupert encouraging Donald Trump, hey, you know, these guys need to be investigated. They put the screws on them. I was reporting out a piece for another Vanity Fair piece to their sports issue about Roger Goodell over a several month period. And I watched in real time as the Murdox do what they can do, which is they leverage all of their entities against someone or something. And in this case, they put the full force of the Wall Street Journal, of Fox, of the New York Post on the NFL about about the rights deals and about how it wasn't great for fans. And then that led to investigations starting to open up

into the Trump administration. And then, you know, Lachlan announcing that they weren't, you know, talking to the NFL about a new rights deal, which is something I think the NFL had been sort of guiding the process along to. You think Rupert won the NFL standoff? For now. For now. But those rights as you appreciate will come back around. And that's where Roger Goodell and his and his posse will be standing firm as David Hill, the former Fox News, Fox Sports, sorry, executive told me when they went to go negotiate with the NFL for sports rights, for NFL rights, he felt like it was. arriving to a couple of blokes in ski masks with with with with with shotguns because it's very much a stick up. So the NFL still has has the leverage and those those deals will come

back around and and Lachlan will have to find the money to to pay. It's quotes like that. That's the reason we all have Hilly still on speed dial when we need something for our stories. Before you go, Lachlan, you were listening to the David Ellison press conference now that the Paramount Mergers. Finally, finally, finally. Complete. Are you bullish on CNN going forward? I am now that this whole shamozzle about who was going to lead it has for at least for now been settled. We don't know the terms of the deal with Mark Thompson. We don't know how long that that agreement is for. Is it just up until, you know, a year? Is it through the next election? I mean, if Allison is smart, he wants Thompson in that chair through the next election,

because things are going to get pretty bad shit crazy after the midterms if the Dems have the Senate and the House. You're talking about investigations, possible impeachment. So you want a real safe pair of hands running CNN. Mark's not a young bloke and was kind of brought out of retirement to do this. So at some point, there's going to have to be some succession. Does that mean Alex McCallum? But I am more bullish now that we know that it is,

Tompson and not say Barry Weiss because we saw that movie has has played out at CBS and it's been a horror film. The short-term bullishness, though, is it not? Because this is all, I mentioned this with David earlier in the podcast, this is all counting on David Ellison's benevolence if that's the right word, that he's not just going to change his mind. And actually, you know, Barry should run both companies. Sure.

And then the other thing we haven't mentioned is there's going to be a lot of pain here. They're taking on a humongous amount of debt to get this deal through. So there's going to be a lot of pain. There's going to be a lot of layoffs. There's going to be a lot of haircuts. So CNN is not not in the clear by a long stretch, but at least they have a leader who is a safe pair of hands, someone who is respected in the building, someone who talent likes. And I think someone who can guide them through this insane moment we're about to go through. And so I am more confident now than say I was a week ago.

But, you know, Alison, to your point at any moment, can change his mind. This editorial board is total malaki. you know, that is just he's appointing these people. I mean, it's like the Ombudsman. They put into CBS News and Ombudsman, and I met him at White House correspondent to the party. And I said, mate, how hard's the job? You've got to deal with all these complaints and, you know,

it must be, you know, a lot of headaches. He said, I only work one day a month. I said, why do you do this one day a month? So it's those types of little, you know, things that really aren't, as they seem and as they appear. And the jury's still out on David Ellison, you know. a lot of stuff could happen during this deal that people are still dirty on. So he has to win back a lot of people.

But certainly by re-upping Mark, he's showing the right signs. All right, Lockland Cartwright, if you like this podcast, you will like Breaker. If you don't like this podcast, you will probably also like Breaker. We appreciate it. Thanks for coming on the press. Yes, mate. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. All right. It's time for David Shoemaker guesses, the strained pun headline.

Yeah. I'm going to swing over to the other side of the studio to get my phone so I can read you the headline. Okay. It's what we call skillful podcasting here at the ringer. Today's headline, David, comes from our good friend, Jerry Sloan, not the late Utah Jazz coach, no, he is, for the last, no longer with us.

It's from the Detroit Free Press. It involves a player. I know you've been spending a lot of time thinking about Dylan Larkin. of the Detroit Red Ways. Okay. Larkin. Oh, excuse me.

He plays for the, let me just start out. It's time for David's Shoemaker guess is the strained. Wait, three, two, one. It's time for David's Shoemaker,

guess is the strained pun headline. Yeah. David, today's headline comes to us from Jerry Sloan. Not the late Utah Jazz coach. The other Jerry Sloan. It's from the Detroit Free Press. It's about a hockey player.

I know you've been spending a lot of time thinking about. One, Dylan Larkin. The headline reads, amid booze for Larkin, Rangers backup, Blanks, Red Wings. Okay? Amid booze for Larkin, Rangers backup, Blanks, Red Wings.

We're going to go with Mr. Larkin's first name, Dylan. I want you to ponder. What was the Detroit Free Press the strain punt headline? Is it a Bob Dylan joke? It is. What would our go-to bag of Dylan phrases?

Like a freewheeling Dylan? Like what the, God, my Dylan knowledge is not great. Does it have Dylan in it? Or is this like a time out of mind? Dylan chose to play things in a certain way. It would be Dylan. Oh, Dylan went electric? Yeah, this is Dylan,

Dylan, comma, electric is the Detroit. press that line. That's great. There we go. Pretty good for the old sports page. He is David Shoemaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Producing magic by Isaiah Blakely and John Jones. One more plug of the old newsletter. Now they tell us over on substack. Check it out. A column in your inbox within the next 24 hours about the legacy of one Tony Romo. Instagram. We are at pressbox ringer. Pressbox ringer at gmail.com for Halloween costume ideas and all of their concerns about this here podcast. David, I will see you next Thursday with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you later, Brian.