The Press Box - Dissecting the Latest Kardashian Scandal, Plus: a Meg Minute! | Jam Session (Ep. 576)

Episode Date: February 20, 2019

Khloe Kardashian split with Tristan Thompson this week after allegedly finding out he cheated on her with Kylie Jenner’s best friend (2:10). Lee Radziwill, sister of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, passed away last week, and The New York Times gave her a very rude obituary (17:07). We introduce a new segment called Meg Minute (28:30) and host another round of Celebrity Real Estate Corner (39:26)! Hosts: Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins Read The New York Times obituary of Lee Radziwill here. Watch the Architectural Digest tour of Maggie Gyllenhaal and Peter Sarsgaard's home here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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P-O-D-S-U-R-V-E-Y. Dot com slash J-A-M. Thanks for your help, everyone. And now let's do the show. Hey, I'm Sashid. I'm Juliet-Litman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. I'm so thrilled to announce that we have a new segment coming later in the show.

It's called the Megyn Minute, and it will surely be longer than a minute. We've got some Megan news to discuss. Some Meg and Megan. A Meg and Megan. It's going to be really great. It was originally Meg Corner, but obviously, There's real estate corner. Which will also be hitting.

Yes. And that's a sacred space in the Jamstession universe. So we needed to keep the corner separate from the minute. Maggie Jillon Hall and Peter Scarsgard, we see you. Sarsguard. Scarsguard's the other one. I can use it all the time. I never put the A's in the right place.

I assume they're all related. Anyway. We also are going to discuss the earth scorching heat rock of an obituary of Lee Radzwell from a couple of days ago. It's some throwback gossip. It's pretty good, though. It's amazing. And of course, for me, there's a real housewives tie in. And first, we have Kardashian news. It's really about a trust your sources or know your sources kind of thing. And let's just get into it. Yesterday, news broke, broke in quotation marks. Heavy quotation marks. Square quotes, some say. Where does that come from, scare quotes? I always assume the UK. Okay. I like that. News broke that Chloe Kardashian. and Tristan Thompson were once and for all done after his many cheating scandals because the latest cheating scandal was that he was seen making out at a party, a house party with Jordan Woods,

the famous best friend of Kylie Jenner. And at first, I just sort of had no interest because I hate these people. And then I really dug into it because the Daily Mail had a lot of info. And this didn't seem right with me, Amanda. This set off a couple of bells for me. And it has nothing to do with like the morality involved. I mean, that's a whole other situation that I don't care to parse. But what was your initial reaction? My initial reaction was, were Chloe and Tristan still together? I think it had been on and off. Yeah. Like he'd been making trips to L.A. She would like leave him out of her social media post and she would include him in a social media post. And just to be clear, I only know this from the Daily Mail. Like, don't follow her. Okay. So I don't completely know. But I think they were like still trying to make it work perhaps because they have a child. Totally. So there was no official.

breakup, there was no official were back together. It was like a on and off situation as far as I could tell. Then my second reaction was, and I don't really know how this happened. I guess this happened because I did like every other person

with an Instagram account look through the Instagram story of Kylie Jenner's birthday party for her one-year-old daughter, Stormy. I actually did not look at that. Wow, okay. So I'll give you a recap.

Well, there were several parties, but the big one was Stormy World, which is like a play on Astro World. which is Travis Scott's tour and experience. And it was really a lot. They rented out some sort of warehouse situation, and there were carnival rides, and there was a performance of Baby Shark.

Are you familiar with Baby Shark? I'm familiar with Baby Shark because when I was at summer camp, like, as a CIT, approximately 17 years ago, that was like a thing we sang with the kids. It was like somebody you would like stand in a circle and like you would sing that with like the younger campers. Like, it's been around for a long time. It didn't just, like, I know it's on the internet now, but like, it's an old-storied song.

As a non-camp person, that fact blew my mind when I learned it. When many people were like, oh, yeah, baby shark. I sing that I came. Baby shark do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah. Yeah, I only know this from parent Instagram, which I am not a parent, but I have friends who are parents, and then it pops up in the background. And, like, one day I knew that I knew baby shark.

This is just, like, a thing, like, all of my camp friends and I, like, just, it's, like, part of, it's, like, part of our DNA. Like, that's a song. Well, now it's part of America's DNA. The world. I mean, the video that's gone viral is Korean, isn't it? Yes, it is. And it does, especially now that it's been featured on Kylie Jenner's Instagram, it's definitely international. Who performed?

The kids? I don't know. I didn't investigate it that much. I mean, again, this was like an Instagram story and it's like... Do they have to co-opt everything? It's so fucking annoying. Of all the things they're co-opting, I'm fine giving up Baby Shark. I guess.

Stormy was very small. You have no emotional connection to it. That's true. That's not that I really do. And the child is a one-year-old child who looked like pretty confused the whole time, but she definitely was like, oh, it's baby sharp. She's very cute. She's very cute. But so anyway, as a result of looking at this Instagram story once, being like, wow, this seems like a lot for a one-year-old's birthday.

My Instagram Explorer is now just all Kylie. That's all I took was like one mistake, one moment of weakness. And suddenly, Kylie Jenner just owns my Instagram Explore. So I'm like pretty familiar with Stormy, what's up with Stormy right now. And then I was, and then as a result, I'm familiar, I'm not familiar, but I could kind of recognize on site the Kylie Jenner's entourage. Sure. So Jordan is one of those people. Yes.

So then I was like, oh, it's that person that I always see with Stormy is basically was my second reaction to it. That was a very long answer to your question. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. So the first thing that I was like, I don't know if this makes sense. I understand rationally and like based on the law. lot of, I don't know, like years of living and also, not that many, and also like movies that like it's possible that someone's best friend and their brother-in-law could have like

an ill-advised damaging career. I don't believe that Jordan Woods would do that based on the very little that I know about her. Well, so the story as, so the story as reported by TMZ, which is something we should come back to. Yes, absolutely. is that they were making out at a house party in front of a lot of people. Yeah. I just don't understand this from a practical level. I don't either. It's really dumb on behalf of both of them.

Is that just like I'm too old, Kaya, do people in their 20s make out at house parties in front of everyone else still? I don't think you would if you knew that person was your best friend's sister's baby daddy. Okay. And also, thank you. This is really horrible. But there's like a financial incentive, a huge one for doing. For Jordan Woods to not do that. And I'm sure that while they're a really good friend,

she's also probably really aware of how much she benefits from being Kylie's best friend. Yes. And so that's just everything in the Craven, Kardashian-Gner world has a price tag attached to it. And I don't believe that she would sacrifice that money for it. But so, I don't know. But that's just kind of like something that's just my personal gut reaction. That's not provable. And like all of the reports say that's true.

So setting that aside. Yes. That's fine. Let's talk about the TMZ factor. Yeah. TMZ often has exclusives on the Kardashian-Gener family because there's some kind of direct pipeline there. I don't have the details of it, but I know it exists. And similarly to how it's bizarre that Jordan Woods would like, would do this to her friend and her friend's family on an

emotional level and also on a financial level, I don't think TMZ would run a story that damage the Kardashian-Gener family if there was any chance there could be like blowback for them. And so then that seems like there's some kind of agreement that per their other stories, like this is like somehow connected to like their broader coverage

of the Kardashian-General universe that is generally beneficial to the Kardashian-Gener's. So the Kardashians are aware that this is happening. Yes. And if they didn't orchestrate it, they were at least involved

or gave the sign-off or coordinated response to it. Yes. And I think the coordinated response part is key. They're probably, even though I find the Jordan Woods factor, like so, so hard to believe and shocking, I think the coordinated response is what is really crucial. And this happened last year with Chris Jenner. What was the story that she did the whole response to?

Well, I was thinking about the original person Thompson story. Yeah, I was thinking it's very similar, which is the pictures came out in a... From him in a nightclub in D.C. Yes. And they've been sitting on it for a long time. And they came out. and there was suddenly a very coordinated response and then it wound up on the show.

And it seemed like everybody, if they hadn't orchestrated it, then everyone was on the same page about what was happening and how to turn it into content. Yeah. It just seems like there's a level of, like we said, coordination,

because then Chloe's best friend, Malika, I think that's her name. I've never seen her on the show. I just need to always remind people that I'm not a fan. she responded like something about hoes on Instagram and then Chloe responded like four shouting emojis which was like taken as confirmation that this is true

and so it's also weird to me that none of the other sisters would pipe up that usually like rise up to defend each other on social media so this which is then like causes its own kerfuffle so this all seems very state very coordinated and orchestrated and then TMZ had a follow-up today which I read early this morning. It was about how Kylie is really conflict and upset.

And I just want to read a portion of it. Yes, please. I think this is a key weird quote. Sources connected to the Kardashian clan tell us, at first Kylie didn't believe it, but then after doing some recon, it sunk in that her best friend may have crossed the line. We're told somehow Kylie got in touch with others

who were at the party and her doubts evaporated. Somehow. I mean, come on. Somehow, like there's sources. there. Obviously, if Jordan was there, she'd probably had other friends who were there too. But just sort of like the reporting of this is that's almost like thou

dot protest too much. Like, you don't have more information in TMZ? Okay. Sure. And it's just the whole thing just is fishy to me. And not that anything is not true, but just the way that the information is coming to us is suspect. It definitely, this somehow

is the TMZ called Chris and sent all the information and they realize that they need to have some sort of comment to protect Kylie if they can't stop the Jordan and stuff from coming out. The no comment from the other sisters is the only thing to me that signals that maybe they were caught a little off guard by this. Yeah. Because you're right. Normally they would be out there just being like trashing this woman.

But because Kylie's in the mix and now they're caught between two sisters. Yeah, yeah. You can't really say anything in public. So, you know, there was a bit of talk on the slack. I think Andrew pointed out that a new season of the Kardashians is starting in a couple weeks, and they do need to manufacture drama and storylines. And this would be a pretty, especially if Tristan is already out of the picture, more or less, which it seems like it I was reading that Chloe basically doesn't spend any more time in Cleveland.

And he's in and out. And it seems like a mostly parental relationship, but they have thrown people under the bus for less. Yeah, yeah. So that was plausible to me. me, though it does seem that Jordan maybe did something. I don't know that she's following the Chris Jenner playbook, as it were. I know. I don't even know why I'm like, I can't believe this happened.

Maybe I'm prude or like, I don't know. I probably did. I just can't believe how she'd be so dumb. It's really stupid. And also mean. It is mean. It's really stupid. I just don't understand.

It's a Bizo. It's a straight up stupid move. Though I felt that we said the exact same thing about Tristan a year ago when he was like photographed. Tristan Thompson's still making dumb moves. Yeah. So some of it is just that there is a lack of common sense that I suppose if you sell your entire life to a reality show in TMZ, you have a different type of sense than I do anyway.

I'm having a feeling similar to when I finish season two of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which is I'm feeling a little sorry for Tristan Thompson as I felt sorry for Joel on Maisel. And even though in both cases, like the mad kind of like wrecked this to begin with. But I do just feel bad that Tristan Thompson doesn't really have the wherewithal or funds or capacity to, like, defend himself. He just sort of, like, is a part of the story. Did he not have the funds, number one? Not on the same level. I mean, I know he's rich, obviously.

He plays for the Cleveland Cavaliers, but it's not the same. Number two, defend himself against what? I don't know. I just feel like, like I said, this is. Just because the Kardashians are not good actors, doesn't mean that he is a good actor. I know. Everyone's kind of a mess here. I know.

He does that. That's why it's similar to feeling bad for Joel on the marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Like he's not really worthy of this sympathy. And yet, it's how I feel. I'm just trying to be honest with you, Amanda. No, I appreciate that. And I'm trying to, I mean, maybe I'm just a mean person. No.

I think some of it is also just, I have no respect for people who just can't even manage the basic stuff. Go in a closet, like a 15-year-old. Like, don't do the dumbest possible thing. Because then you've just really created, I am, I cannot explain or dictate to anyone how you co-parent or how you deal with a long-term relationship or a long-distance relationship or a relationship in the spotlight. I do actually think it's more complicated. And when there's a kid involved, you guys got to do what you got to do. I have no words for them. But I do not understand making out with someone in front of everybody else when you know it's going to get you in trouble.

That just is stupid. It's kind of like only appropriate at your own wedding. like when it's like time? I don't mean it. No, but it's weird. It's weird. I mean, people make out at parties. Sure.

I don't mean to be like, like people make out of parties. I haven't been to a party in a really long time. Nor I haven't been to a party where people make out of a really long time, which is why I asked Kaya. But like, people do make out of parties. Like, you know, I will not throw stones there. What you're going to do is not cheat on a high profile person in front of a lot of people who have camera phones and are going to sell that shit to TMZ. for money.

No pictures yet, though. Oh, interesting. No pictures. That's why there's so much room for disbelief. Okay. Picks or it didn't happen, you know? I guess so. Which is like, I don't know, perhaps they had yonder where you have to put your phone in a pouch.

Yeah. Well, you know what? We will be able to see all of it on the new season of the Kardashians very soon. I will say, did we talk about this? The episodes, I did catch the episode of the Kardashians when Chloe was going into labor and all of the Tristan stuff was unfolding. And it was pretty gripping as far as television goes. Great job by them.

They are good at making that all of this stuff into actual narrative television. Yeah. And I thought it was pretty fascinating. And she's on a speakerphone and they're all in L.A. trying to get to a plane in time. And she's asking like what contractions are supposed to feel like. And it was pretty intimate. That's interesting.

So maybe this will be an interesting. TV show. Yeah, I'm sure it will be. I don't know. Like at what cost, which we already did like the social cost of the Kardashians last week. So I don't know if we need to relitigate it. No, we don't. I just, you know, Ryan Cicrest and Christian are great at their jobs. They are great at their jobs. And Bina Murray, who basically invented reality TV as we know it. So good job by, good job by the TV people. Yeah. They're earning their keep. I wish all the young children in this situation well. That's kind of where I am. I'm sure they'll be fine because their parents are extremely wealthy and can afford the best care for them. So they'll be fine, but, you know, spare a thought for the kids.

It's quickly becoming this slogan of Jam Session, the podcast where we wish you well. We don't want to be involved, but we wish you well. It's pretty much a life motto as well, yeah. Seriously, stay over there, but good luck. Moving on. All right. This is like opposite end of the spectrum. This is like the best kind of celebrity opposed to the worst. Kennedy drama. Okay, but here's the thing. This is mean. It's the opposite. But in many ways, especially when reading this obituary they were going to talk about, they are the Kardashians of their era.

It's totally true. And it is as it is sisterly rivalry and bitchiness and cutting people out of wills and stealing boyfriends and all of the above. Lee Radzwell, the mother-in-law of Carol Radz-Wil of the Real Housewives. That's definitely how every obituary led. Probably more importantly, the sister. of Jackie Kennedy Onassis, died. Yes. She was 85.

She was 85. What a striking woman she was back in the 60s. She was so gorgeous. It's like a really cruel and also hilarious read of an obituary. We're talking about the New York Times obituary. Yes. That ran. Not just anyone.

And yes, it's catty and dismissive. There is a 400 word detour just about Jackie Kennedy Onassis' sex life. Incredible. Yeah. I mean, it's talking about possible relationships between Jackie Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy. It's not even though Aristotle and NASA stuff. It's literally just, and here are some thoughts about this dead person's sister's sex life.

I've committed a lot of time, energy and mental space in my life to what I believe to be a cover up of an inside job and the killing of John F. Kennedy Jr. Oh my God. It's not funny, but I just, you just went. straight to the conspiracy corner. All right, go. Let's do it. I just want to say that I believe that.

That's all I need to say right now. Okay. If you'd like to find, if you'd like to dive into the Reddit message board with me. To be clear, because I started cackling. JFK Jr. Yes. And not JFK. There is also, wait.

No, I mean the president, John F. Kennedy. Oh, I really thought that you were starting a new conspiracy corner about the JFK Jr. And I was like, wow. No, no, no. I mean, that's just a different kind of tragedy. I can't even parse it. Anyway, I've thought a lot about that.

I honestly feel that I have been neglecting the greater Kennedy universe. I need to get more involved. This is an almost inspiring journalism to me. One thing I want to talk to you about, and we can do some favorite quotes, the writer of this has been preparing for her death for so long that many years ago, he reached out to her for a quote. That's not common for obituaries. No, well, the idea of pre-writing obituaries, especially at larger newspapers like the New York

Times that has the resources and has a full obituaries desk is pretty common. There are a lot of people, if you reach a certain level of renown, and also you reach a certain age, there is probably, there are people whose entire job it is, is to research and write these obituaries and have them ready to go. As seen in the film Serendipity starring John Cusack. Wow, I had forgotten that. And Jeremy Piven, who plays an obituary writer in that movie. Yeah. So that's common. And I don't remember another person citing an interview with the dead person in the obituary? Me neither. But I'm sure that it's, I'm sure that people have been interviewed before.

I just think the brazenness of referencing that conversation is amazing. I've never encountered that. Well, so this obituary is interesting. And I actually, the Kardashian parallel is pretty striking because Le Radzwill. Yeah. If you want to call her Radzy, that's what Andy Cohen calls Carol. So I'll go for it. So Radzzi is a pretty unique figure for her era because she was just famous for being famous,

famous for knowing other people and for marrying and for, obviously, that's not unique. There was a whole socialite starlit era of the 60s and, you know, going back for a long time of people being famous for who they married and what social causes they gave to and what they wore and how rich they were. But she really turned it into a new industry. She was a reality star before her time in many ways. Yes. And then gave birth to someone who... Anthony. Anthony.

Yes. Who married. Carol. Yeah. And he passed away of cancer, testicular cancer a while ago. It's well before the real housewives. Seemed like a great guy based on how Carl talked about him. Well, he was a journalist like her.

I think they met at ABC News. I didn't know that she was a journalist. That's fun. That's one of her stated reasons for leaving the show slash being kicked off is she's returning to journalism. Sure. Okay. I'm very rough season with Carol last season, but I'm pro. Okay. What is your favorite burn from this obituary?

Gosh. This is in the fourth paragraph. She made several attempts for professional recognition but achieved only pale reflections of the spotlight on her sister. Very, very harsh. You know, accurate, it's true. because if your sister is Jackie Freakin Onassis, then you're not going to be the most famous person. But it's not exactly a sympathetic telling

of what it's like to grow up in the spotlight of one of the most famous women in the world, which is I suppose that's what we expect empathy and a burnishing of an image from an obituary. And this is just kind of social commentary. Yeah, and also really rude about then, like, her professional endeavors once she was famous and tried to be something more,

she became an actress. To be fair, people at the time were not very kind. No, but, and this is what it says. She was in a remake of Laura, of Laura, the Otto Premiger film. And to quote this, the reviews were not kind. That's just the lead of a paragraph.

And then it quotes it, sending clothes horse upon whom no discernible sespian demands were made. She is just not an actress. I mean, it's very tough. And, like, even if that is, true, must she be remembered that way? I don't know. Do that have to make it in? Obituaries are not like always so factual. They're like capturing every moment. It's sort of like this seems like

it went out of its way to capture the many ways in which she didn't live up to some kind of Jackie Kennedy standard. That's honest. Yes, it is true. That's kind of what else are you supposed to say about someone other than she was just kind of trailed in the spotlight and we're not sure. And it seems like she definitely slept with our style. Anasas before her sister swooped in and married him, but we can't be sure. No, we can't be sure about that. And then she married some other people. Super Jam Session Corps.

Yeah. Jackie Kennedy and Aristotle Onassis, Ari, got together on his yacht. Oh, yeah. In the G&C, like off of Greece. Yeah. So, like, we would have been all over that if we were in our 30s in the 1960s, which I would have loved for the record. Although, based on reading this, I don't want to live through a presidential assassination.

It seems really tough for everyone involved. Yes. I would agree with that. Including the country. Yes. It just seemed really horrible. Yeah, and she basically married this guy just to have resources and get out of the mess. Yeah.

By all accounts. Yeah. They were estranged by the time he died in like 1975, so they were barely married. Fun personal fact. Are you familiar with the dress that Jackie Kennedy wore to marry Arianasis? I am, yes. That was my wedding dress inspo for sure. I didn't quite get there.

It was like a lovely tech. style and it had longsitino and longsleeved but short. Yes. I'm very into it. Great look. That's a, it is a great wedding look. It's also an adult wedding look. I feel that so many adult, so many wedding looks are like infantile or like juvenile. And it's just sort of like why is everyone trying to look like a child bride? And that was like a real adult look. I was rewatching my favorite movie that you have left me. I'm like I have a fucking wedding video. Jesus grace. I've never even seen my wedding photos. Don't at me. No. I was rewatching One of my favorite films that you recently deserted me on the mountain alone with for weddings and a funeral.

I didn't desert you. It's fine. I just don't have the same passion for it. And that's okay. We got a different passions. Well, I have a passion for it. I was rewatching it last night. And the first wedding, the bride comes up the aisle.

When he arrives late. Yeah. And the kind of Scarlet, the weird character is like, oh, she looks beautiful. And the Chris and Scott Thomas character goes, Scarlet, you're blind. She looks like a meringue. Which is a really bad dress. Many people do sometimes look like marangs or other confections at their wedding. And it's not how I would want to look.

I want to look like a person. Yeah, I completely agree. The other thing that I wanted from this and didn't get a lot of was more exploration into the Grey Gardens connection. Oh, yeah. The Bouvier clan. However, that would have put Lee Radswell on like a pedestal because she would have seemed like so normal and accomplished. compared to big Edy and little Eadie, who just have their own kind of psychosis. And so I think they were omitted because that's like as relevant to like who she is in the world as some,

as like being front of Truman Compote. Like honestly, because the E.D. Beal times two are really famous. And like Great Gardens is a really big deal. And that's like the other arm of the Radzwell Kennedy family. I mean, that's the Bouvier family. And I wish they had been mentioned in this and they were not really. I agree with that. though if I had to choose between that and just speculation about whether Jackie Kennedy

slept with Bobby Kennedy, I'm going with the... Anne stole her sister's boy or like Mr. Yeah, I did wonder whether this is a bid for a... I mean, there are several books written about them, but this seems like another thing where I suddenly want to go read eight books about the Kennedy sisters. I know. I just, I really regret not putting more emotional energy into the Kennedy universe. There is 50 years of documentation that... we can get for you. There is like a whole decade of Vanity Affairs alone that I can buy for you

on eBay and you can be a part of it. I just want to know that the guy who wrote this Robert McFadden, first of all, he's like been a reporter for a long time. He might be on the obituary desk now, but he was like a breaking news reporter and he probably has a history with the Cardinals, with the Kennedy's, not the Kardashians, my bad. They're easy to confuse. They know, particularly in this context of this podcast. Here's what I'm going to say. This is a very rude obituary. We didn't even talk about the fact that it just details Jackie Kennedy's will and how she left Lee Radswell out of her with like a very rude note. Yeah.

Being like, because I provided enough for her in my lifetime. Amazing stuff. They kind of had this coming a little. But I would like to advocate for more obituaries like this. Let's do it. Let's be honest. Yeah, absolutely. Because this is, I suppose it's not comforting to the people who have just lost a loved one.

And that's something to think about. Maybe we could like do like a week before you're allowed. to kind of write the real talk obituaries? Yeah, sure. But I don't know, public figures are public figures. Also, she's dead now. She can't, like, contend with this. Which I guess she can't defend herself, but whatever.

Yeah. He did reach out to her for comment beforehand, as we know. Yeah, I guess I don't know what else you were supposed to say. Great raid. Just a great raid. Thank you to Robert McFadden. Let's move on. Time for the inaugural Meg Minutes.

Do you want to start with Megan Markle or Meg Ryan? I was going to ask you the exact thing. Let's talk about Meg Ryan. We'll keep it brief. Sure. There's a new interview in the New York Times Magazine as a part of our friend David Marquesi's new column. The expanded talk column. Expanded talk.

Thank God, because I did not like how they used to edit the talk column in the back page. It just wasn't enough space. So it's a lot more space, a lot more expansive interview. David is a very gifted interview. You may know his interviews from New York Magazine. He's now at the Times Magazine. And his first interview at the Times Magazine was with Meg Ryan. And it was a freaking delight.

It was really good. She came off amazingly, like just amazing. And I completely agree. And the thrust of the interview was essentially, why did Meg Ryan quit acting? Kind of like she was big and in Hollywood and a big star in the 90s. And it's not like she's totally disappeared, but she has clearly kind of stepped away from the industry and the spotlight. And why did she do that? And how does she feel about it?

And is it connected to her experience of being a woman in Hollywood or how. an audience perceives you. And she's just very thoughtful. Yes. And she does seem charming in the way there is something about the interview that I recognized from watching too many Nora Ephron movies. Like that some of it is just that Nora Ephron was capturing a certain aspect of Meg Ryan. But I just thought that she...

That makes me think of something. Yes. Why isn't Nora Efron thought of as anuteur? I mean, how much time do you have? I know. I mean, we know the answer to that question. It's like basically sexism. Yes, it is.

But it's so true. Like she harness Meg Ryan in like the way that so many male directors and writers get credit for. Like Aaron Sorkin, like, whatever, cool guy. You're fine. I mean, he's done great work, obviously. But like, she's such an amazing ability to put her actors in a position to succeed. Yes. And that's like what I think to me, like kind of defines like an author.

And she just doesn't get that credit. She also just had such a specific vision and created like a whole world. There's a whole Nora Ephron version of New York. there's a whole way of thinking and writing. She has such a specific imprint on culture, which absolutely deserves a tour. Maybe we can talk more about this. When Harry Met Sally turns 30, I believe in August, it's definitely this year. So 30 years of Nora.

So we will explore that a lot more. How about that? It's great. Okay. I feel overwhelmed thinking about it. Well, I'm going to read some books. We'll do a whole thing. Have you seen This Is My Life, or ever read it, the Meg Wulter book, with a screenplay by Nora Ephron?

No. I thought that you were... But when you were talking about why isn't Nora Ephron considered a Natura, I thought of the wife. So Meg Wallets are also in the mix. Anyway. No, I'll seek that out. I was one of my favorite movies as a kid. Yeah. Really? And actually, Emily Nesbaum recently brought it up

in discussing the Marvel's Mrs. Maisel. Anyway, back to Meg Ryan. She was delightful. Do you have a favorite part of the interview? I think the ending is very charming when she's just talking about Cohen Brothers movies that make her happy. And David is kind of like... but they don't make me feel happy. And then they talk.

She clearly thinks a lot about movies and has specifics and likes talking about movies the same way that we do. And there was something that I recognized in it and just liked and was drawn to. I think that she's also very wise about her career. It seems like not only, I mean, she's had a lot of success. But then she did the thing where she takes a step back and somehow manages to have found to made peace with that and is good with where she is, which I don't know that I would be able to do that. Yeah. So one of my favorite moments was when David was fumbling for a word and it was Metzier. Yeah.

And she just knew like exactly what he. I don't know if that was a kind edit on her part or if they just had like a good kind of like sympathetico together. But that was like a really cool moment between an interviewer and an interviewee that made them both look thoughtful and made her look awesome. Yeah. And I just like loved that moment. I thought it was like an all timer.

There is a real art to interviewing people. It's really hard. And it, and the art changes depending on whether you're interviewing. someone for it like a Q&A like this or a podcast or a profile. But creating connection with someone, I mean, it's hard to do in any circumstances. It's interview or otherwise. It's his Metsia. Yes, exactly.

So we recommend that. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah. The one thing I wish had been addressed and perhaps it was and maybe she just won't talk about it. But of all of the women in Hollywood who I think about their trajectory of their careers, it's very hard we need to not think about the plastic surgery she had done. Yes. Because it was very obvious in my opinion.

and also came, it seemed to map against the decline of her career as well as an actress. And I'm just so curious about that. I'm like, I'm judgmental about plastic surgery in a way that I wish I wasn't. But I also like wish it was something that was discussed a lot more openly. And I don't know. She's such a curious case because she was like an icon of a very specific type of romantic comedy woman. And then she really changed her face and also her career declined. Yeah.

I agree with you. and I'm also happy that, you know, it's tricky, right? Because I do also want to hear about that and think a lot about it. I had the same thought. I'm also like, I don't know that she needs to go through her life answering her face for her face every single time. So on the one hand, I'm like, I'm glad that she was able to have a thoughtful conversation without having to answer for that because it's like we never asked Brad Pitt about his apparent plastic surgery. I wish everyone talked about it. Totally, totally.

And on the other hand, I am really curious. They do talk a little bit about the response to the movie In the Cut, which was like a different sexier Meg Ryan. And I thought that that was a pretty deft way of talking about responses to physicality and trying to reinvent yourself as a woman without having to get into the stuff that might make her feel uncomfortable. Sure. So, no, you know, I think it's great. I recommend the interview. Shout out to David Marquesie. Good stuff.

Shout out to Meg Ryan. Our other Meg. Our other Meg. In the city of New York, Megan Markle is having a baby shower. Or it happened, unclear. Thrown by Amal Clooney. It's not clear who's actually throwing it, but like in the tabloids, the people we know who are in attendance are Serena Williams, her stylist, who she needs to fire, and friend Jessica Mulrone, Abby El Spenser. Oh, Amal Cluny.

And that guy, Marcus, whatever, who's her good friend, who allegedly set her up with Harry. So Amal Clooney is organizing it. Yes. Amal Clooney also has a home in the UK, am I correct? Yes, she does. Is there any reason that it needed to be at two very high-profile hotels on the Upper East Side in New York City? One for the press. Yep.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for answering my question. Not invite her in-laws? Yeah, I guess so. Aren't you? Oh, I don't know. I don't know what the etiquette is for baby showers and or royal baby showers.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, even if Kate had one, we don't know about it. Like, it's not some of the royals do. Right. So perhaps it. We're not publicly. Yes, not publicly. Perhaps it wasn't allowed. to be a public affair in London.

I guess so. I mean, I'm sure the clunies have a lovely, amazing crash pad in New York, but it's actually not one of the places they're known to live. They are known to live in Los Angeles, London, and Italy. Right. And actually, they have two homes in the U.K. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know, she probably also just wanted to go to the U.S. one more time before her baby came,

the movie, I guess. I guess so. She doesn't really have, like, a huge connection to New York, does she? No. I think it was probably just, like, closer. Okay. Easier. Right.

They went to the polo lounge for dinner. That's just like... I think the paparazzi photos that have been captured from Megan's time in New York, first of all, she's been there since Friday. The pictures came out yesterday,

Tuesday. That's a really long lag. That's like, to me, again, clear orchestration. Okay. And second of all, it looks like the paparazzi

were called based on how people were like were walking out of the restaurant, like one by one. There's not groups of people together. And it just suggests to me that they knew this was going to be happening. And, like, maybe that's partially because, like, they wanted to control the situation.

Right. But it had a real staged look to it. They certainly seem aware that it's happening and certainly didn't go to the full lengths that they can go to in order to avoid this sort of thing. It's true. One thing that I've noticed about Megan that I feel like is an attempt to, like, seem like, an every woman is that she does repeat clothes a lot, which I clearly have no problem with, but it's just funny for a celebrity. she fucking loves her ankle length Victoria Beckham Navy wool coat that she also wore to church on Christmas. And she just is double-breasted. She likes to mix it with black clothes, which is a look that I like, but I think is interesting.

And she just like, she rides hard for a certain group of friends. Yeah, on both cases, I'm kind of like, with the coat, I don't know, she's pregnant. How many giant coats are you going to find? Spagumarkle. Right. That's true. also, they don't make clothes to fit pregnant people, especially designer things. Yeah, not nice ones. So you find something that you like, you feel confident. Sure, great, go for it. Love it.

Support you. The Friends thing is a nice testament to her loyalty. I wish that they didn't also, the friends didn't also have to be so in front of the paparazzi. It does seem like that's part of it as well, that with all of the celebrity aspects around this baby shower that they just decided to, that it makes it both more paparazzi friendly and also that perhaps paparazzi were, if not called, then accommodated. I have a question for you. Maybe it's a really dumb one. Yeah. Who is more famous internationally?

Serena Williams or Megan Markle? Like, all nations, not just like the ones that we often discuss on this podcast. That's a great question. Because I think it might be Megan, but I don't know. Serena is so famous and she has been for so long. And she's the face of one of the biggest global brands, the most prominent female athlete they have. Right. She, I don't know.

She's Serena Williams. Like, she's, like, among the most famous people in America. And certainly, I think, the most famous female athlete worldwide. Yes. I would say that. I still think that Megan Markle is probably more famous, which is wild. The reason I think that is because I think that the instance. of the royal family just has so much built-in infrastructure around its fame.

Yeah. Like, everyone knows what that is around the world in a very certain way. And I think tennis is increasingly popular, and obviously Serena has Nike, and Serena has the, I think she is the most famous female athlete, but I don't, I think that goes further some places than others. Yeah, totally. And I think that it's probably, if I were betting, I would say probably Megan Markle. Yeah, it's an interesting conversation, though.

Yeah. I don't, that's not who should be more famous. It's just kind of how I think this works. Yeah. Something to think about listeners. Yeah. Lastly, Real Estate Corner this week. Peter Sarsgaard. Is that correct? You did it. And Maggie Jillon Hall, who meant shout out to my camp, Camp Hall, and Maggie Jillen Hall went there and loved it. She's one of our most famous alums. Jake didn't like it as much. He only went for like two summers. Okay. L loser. All right. They live in Brooklyn. They do. They live in well. Well, okay, we'll get to that. But the house that is in Architectural Digest is in Park Slope. And they were sort of in the 2000s wave of celebrities moving to Brooklyn. Yes, they were. They were kind of of a class with Heath Ledger and Michelle Williams.

Yes. Of that era. Yes. And so they have finally given their tour of their home. And I watched the accompanying video, which is not always something that I do, but it was extraordinary. Within the first two minutes, they cite the German film The Lives of Others as design inspiration for their home, which is you couldn't write a parody of Maggie Gillen Hall and Peter Sarasgard giving a tour. It's a pretty weird movie to reference, but also a fantastic movie.

I was about to say I love the lives of others. It's really great. If you haven't seen it, it's a German movie about life in East Berlin. Yes. And we're someone's a spy. listening, whatever. Right. And they're referencing kind of the East German artists in the movie and a certain vibe. It's a fantastic movie. Really, really wonderful. I should rewatch it. Anyway, it's an amazing, hilarious flex to cite the lives of others as home design inspiration within

the first two minutes of your architectural digest video. I just, that's a fact. We can't get around that. Absolutely. And it goes on from there. You meet their cat and Peter Sarsgaard gives a speech about how it's important to adopt pets, which I totally agree with, but that kid's going to get shoehorned in. They share a desk. The kitchen is in the basement. There's so much going on. They listed this house recently. So we know that it's 3,600 square feet, three to four bedrooms, two and a half baths, 4.6 million. Right. And so this is what... I think that's a good deal. Yeah. I mean, it's a beautiful home. I will say that. It is to my taste. I wanted to talk about it because of this listing. So the architectural digest story came out on February 12th.

I believe that means it's in the March issue of Architectural Digest. And they listed it mid-January. Yes. But there is on magazines like that, there's a longer lead. So there is a theory, I believe it's by Ruth Graham from Slate that architectural digest or similar real estate stories where you get to tour a couple's home often signal that a couple is getting a divorce and they want to raise the. interest and rates of the home when they inevitably have to sell it off. Jennifer Aniston being an architectural digest a month before she divorced Justin Thoreau being the prime example here. So this was obviously, I believe it was Katie Baker who immediately was like,

oh no, now I'm where they're getting a divorce. It could also just be basic real estate speculation where they do this and then list it. Yeah. I mean, it's a really nice house. It is a really nice house. I lean more towards divorce, to be honest. I kind of feel like maybe they're just moving to L.A. Oh, interesting. She's from, she says, she grew up here. Yeah, they went to Harvard Westlake.

Huh, that's possible. They are really committed to wood. They have a teak bathtub, which is phenomenal. Yeah, can we just listen to them. Let's let them describe, though. This is our amazing bathtub. This is a teak bathtub. It's amazing. It's made by Scottish

barrel makers, and we've had it for 10, 12 years, right? This is a favorite room. Let me like this. Yeah, that it's Portlandia, but it's all the stuff is beautiful, so I don't know what to say.

I know. It's really nice. It's also unique. Like, this house is not garish. It's somewhere between modern and classic. It's really well done. Like, I don't know.

It also just, it actually looks like someone lives here. The bedrooms have so much light, which is huge. Like, there's archways. It's a really fucking nice house. Do you happen to know

what street it's on in Park Slop? I believe it's like Garfield place or something. So it's right between Fifth Avenue and the park. It's on that stretch. It's right by the guerrilla coffee. Got it. They also have a huge backyard. I mean, like huge. It's like 45 feet by 20 feet, which is really big for Brooklyn. Like, that's outrageous. They say that they've been working on this for years and kind of bits and pieces. And you can tell that it does have that project lived in feel as opposed to we just hired a designer. to make everything happen.

And I like that. It is a really nice home. I will say, so there's like a article that accompanies it. In retrospect, the body language between Jennifer Aniston and Justin Thoreau was horrible in their spread. And I think maybe Peter Sargegard is just really weird. But I wouldn't say it's great in these pictures. I don't know. But maybe he's just weird.

Would you be super comfortable if someone came into your home and was taking a bunch of pictures of you? No. I wouldn't either. She's wearing an outfit that I could really see you. wearing. I was about to say, I just freaking love it. She's wearing an amazing dress and then Gucci loavers and white. It's a real like Versace, Johnny Versace type of shoe. Like he would wear those since she looks great. Yeah. Okay, everyone. Thank you for listening. As we like to say, we wish you well. We do. We wish everyone well. But for you, the listener, we like, we really do wish you well. We still want something to do with you.

We'll be back in two weeks. Thanks, everyone.