The Press Box - Ep. 107: 'The Challenge' Podcast With Juliet Litman and Drew Goddard

Episode Date: May 6, 2016

The Ringer's Juliet Litman is joined by screenwriter Drew Goddard to break down the season premiere of MTV's 'The Challenge,' Johnny Bananas's master toasting (20:00), the struggling new season of 'The Real World' (36:30), and his career highlights (49:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Lippman. Today I'm here with Drew Goddard, screenwriter. Hello. What's like, when you like introduce yourself, you're like, I'm Drew Goddard from X. Like, what do you say? I'm trying to get people to say bon vivant.

Okay, so you're bon vivant, Drew Goddard. That's right. Cool. Sounds good. Perfect. Yeah. But just in case it's not enough information,

you worked on the Martian, you worked on so many things that people love. Lost, Buffy. Buffy. Angel, lost. We're going to come to this at the end, but you have worked in a vortex of beloved things. I have. It's pretty amazing.

I've been very lucky with my career, for sure. I'm sure it's more than luck. We can discuss that later. But first, I want to talk about the real world road rules challenge, now just called the challenge. Nothing could make me happier. It premiered two nights ago. This is Friday, May 6th that came out on Wednesday, May 4th. Really interesting move this year.

The challenge has begun before the real world season has ended. Yeah, and I'm sure that was not, they didn't, I'm sure that was planned, but it feels like it's because they knew that this real world season was subpar. I haven't even watched it. It's in Las Vegas, right? It's rough. Okay. Let's talk about that later as well. But first, the challenge.

Great. So it's Rivals 3. We're in Mexico. Yep. I feel great about Mexico as a location. It's a wonderful location. Because it gives you, look, it looks beautiful. It does.

But it feels like trouble. Like you feel like trouble can happen in Mexico, which is what you want out of a challenge. Sure. And we also have the bonus of T.J. really working on his Spanish. So they're in, do you know the name of the city that they're in? No. It's like Waltzuko. Oh. But T.J. has really like mastered the pronunciation. He said it like several times. And he doesn't usually do that. So, you know, T.J. I keep wanting to call him C.J. even though he's been in my life for so many years. He got into a really bad biking accident a few years ago. And I feel like he's now fully recovered. He's giving the show his everything. Yeah. I actually feel like he's more powerful than ever. Oh, yeah.

broke him down and built him back up. Yeah. Because he feels strong. And we should talk about the, one of my favorite moments is always when you see, you know, this season on. Right away, T.J. screaming, what is wrong with you, bro, at somebody and we don't know who that is. Yes. I'm more excited to find out who he's screaming at.

This season on was really tantalizing. Really strong, right? So someone will be going to the hospital. Yep. Someone gets kicked. At least one person gets kicked out. Yep. I think there's probably going to be a physical altercation.

It sounded like T.J. was genuinely disappointed. Yeah. the person, which is always good. That means something, because TJ's seen a lot of disappointing things. So for him to actually sound disappointed and surprised, who knows what that could be? It had to be more than just quitting a competition, which is usually what gets him upset, but this seemed like he was like, a human, TJ was like, nah, I can't get down with that. Yeah, and it felt like, my guess is, my prediction is violence of some kind, because it sounded really disgusted, but he's seen some disgusting violence. So who knows, I'm so excited what this

could possibly be. He's lived through CT beating up after. Adam, Derell, Brad, yeah. Just punching, who did he punch in the face when he just said, yo, bro, can you take a punch and hit him? Oh, I forgot about that. It's amazing. It was like for no reason. Just hit a guy for no reason. I kind of miss C.T.

I would have liked him on this season. What do you mean, kind of? I mean, definitely. I miss C.T. all the time in everything I do. How much do you keep up with these people in between seasons? I don't, I don't, well, it's a great question. I try not to. Okay.

Because I like to watch these seasons fresh. Like, come in. I like to come in fresh. Because if you know too much. much it pollutes the view. Sure. It's like it's like too many spoilers. I don't right like you want it's like their their presentation on the challenge is kind of like that's like their persona you don't want the outside information. That's right and but we live in Los Angeles right and so you can't drive down sunset and not be passing the saddle ranch at some point. That's like ground zero for them.

Always. I've never been. Have you? I've never been. I feel like I know what it looks like in my head. I know that there's a mechanical bull there right. And in my mind, Cara Maria is always. always there. For me, it's Robin is always there. Okay, yeah. Like, Robin just seems like she's like the hostess. She's also like probably the best bull rider. She's working her way up. Yeah. You know. One issue will be manager. Like it gives her time to go to audition. So she does it at night. But the truth is, it's her home. She's always, there's always been like rumors about Robin out in the ether of like being like, not anymore because she's like married and she's a mom. But when she was like really big in this world, there were always rumors that she was like just like a big partier. And so that's why I just

imagined her at the saddle ranch. And by rumors do you mean that's what we overtly see all the time? Because, yeah, it's just on the show. Robin is one of the queens of the hot mess. Real world San Diego is like one of the best seasons. San Diego won that she was on. San Diego one. San Diego two, one of the worst, I would argue. That's true, but it gave us so much challenge talent. Correct. That's how we got crazy Frank. Frank, Zach. Yeah. Jack is a first round draft pick now for challenges. And what was the name of the blonde that Zach dated when he was on the show. Ashley, she was in Ashley, I think. They're all Ashley. That was, that's probably the largest discrepancy between challenged talent. Yeah. And quality of

the actual real world show. It's so true. Because there's so much talent, but the show itself not great. Yeah. The only one that is, like, that is similar is Real World Chicago. Yes. But also, that was a great season. I don't, ah. It was time. It was the 9-11 season. Yeah. I thought it was an okay season. Interesting. But, but I agree with you 100% because it gave us Tanya. And Anisa. An Anisa, who if you just look at just the amount of years they have given us. Two heavy weights. They were both long gone, but we have a lot of faces coming back this season that I was excited to see.

And one thing they did was so when everyone came on screen, on their Chiron on the bottom of the screen, how many challenges they've been on and the best they've ever done, which is why did it take all these years to bring that? I loved it so much. And what it did is it legitimized finally the sport. It's true. It feels like analytics are starting to take over what we're doing here because now I could look at it and go, oh, if you look at it, what was it, Johnny? Johnny's stats have always been, we've always known they're amazing.

Yeah, he's been on nine times, one, five times. That's crazy. Yeah, that's an incredibly high percentage. That's an insane win percentage. I don't think that there's like any NBA parallel of anything is good. No. I just hope that next season we'll have Paul D. Podesta as like an executive producer of this show.

Moneyball has really arrived. So we're going to talk about Johnny, but first, Camilla, she's back. Thank God. She has one win. I think thanks to Johnny, right? Yeah, she does. And let me ask you this. As you go through this, who were the people you were most excited to see?

Number one was Wes. I'm so happy Wes is back. Wes is like great television. Who was your number one? My number one is, I have two. I'm going to give you two answers. One, the one, the person who surprised me the most. Okay.

Because I wasn't expecting to see this person and I was so excited to see her. But my number one is Leroy because Leroy is my favorite, not just my favorite cast member. I think he's my favorite person of all time. Ever. He's the greatest. Yes. My friend David Jacoby feels. the same way. He's the greatest. I mean, I sometimes go back, part of this, I contend that the first

his season of real world, Vegas, Vegas, too is the greatest season of the real world. That was like the 25th season, I think. It was really good. From top to bottom, it is, it is insanely great. And part of that is because Leroy is so wonderful. So Leroy, I'm always excited to see, but you know who I was really excited to see? Ashley. Ashley from San Francisco Explosion. Speaking of hot messes, oh my God. How great was her seat? She was so. so good. I think she lasted three episodes. Yeah, I think it was like less than two weeks. It was great. And she came in having learned absolutely nothing. Nothing. It's the best. She may have been like put in a box in between that and now and she was just like waiting for her moment.

I wonder who was like, let's get Ashley back because so she's paired with Corey, who was from her season and like they had a fight on their show. But like I'm sure Corey hasn't thought about Ashley in like a really long time. He's probably like, oh, right, her. And I wonder like if they just were, they wanted Corey and they had to find a partner for him or vice versa. Yeah, you can tell when they're trying to force conflict. Yeah. As we go through the teams, there's a couple that really stand out. Yeah. If you've watched the show, you're like that.

They're not real rivals. No. And Corey and Ashley are not real rivals, but I'm happy to have them both. I really like Corey. I don't know why, but I just really enjoy him. Without question. And one of my favorite things is when teammates who had conflict suddenly become best friends. Yes.

And him immediately in this episode saying, I got Ashley, I got her back. Yeah. You're just like, okay, I love this team. And Ashley had the kind of the salacious scene of the week where she went into the bathroom with Jamie Carr Maria's cousin, no Car Maria this time. And Corey was like the most excited. He was like so happy that she was like getting some action. And I think it was his excitement was important for her frame of mind because one of the things

if you watch these shows a lot, you notice that can happen is the first person to hook up can get shamed by everyone else, particularly if they're new. Particularly if they're new, they're sort of like chum to the water. and Corey saying, no, it's fine, good for her, led to hers coming out and saying, I'm going to do it again. Yeah, she's like, that was fun. I'll do it again. Yeah, so I think that we can't assume she'll be here for a few weeks.

I can't let her go. I hope so. Yeah, seriously. So, okay, so she hooked up with Jamie, who we met last season, Carr, Maria's cousin. Turns out Jamie's a corrections officer. Did you know that? I did not. That was really threw me for a loop.

That's right. And then I could only see him as like a version of an orange is the new. Black character after that. And he just was so goofy. Like he was, I think he was shocked that Ashley was interested in him. And he was just like, he was trying to land his,

his, like, one-liners so hard in the interviews. And I was just like, this guy is a total clown. It's always sad when you can feel them trying to land one-liners. Yeah. He was like,

I'm here for like something, something and to bang seigneuritas. And I was just like, come on, dude. Like, that's something that a character on orange is the new black would say. Correct. You're trying to hard. Just be you.

Yeah. We like you for you. Just do it. He's basically porn stashed to me now. That's the only way I can think of him. But you know, it seems like he has a whole new personality that Cara Maria around. It's true. He's really coming out of his shell.

It seems like he might have been scared of Cara Maria. And probably Abram last season. I'm scared of Abrams last season. I think we all are. Yes, definitely. I'm not going to judge Jamie for being scared. No. It was totally justified.

Camilla, who I mentioned, her partner is Tony. Okay, but hang on while we're talking about Camilla. Yeah, we just need to mention that she's an entrepreneur now. and owns a spa in Miami. Do you think Dwayne Wade goes there? I'll tell you who's going to go there, and that's Drew Goddard. Because I cannot imagine what that spa is like. That feels like the reason to take a trip to go find out.

Absolutely. When you think of like tranquility and like calmness, you do not think of Camilla. Yeah. If anybody needs an investigative reporter to just go and tell you what Camilla's spa is like, I'm on the case, I'll work for free. I feel that's really good to know. We might send you. Right.

Especially if you're going for free. That just sounds like a great idea. my own fee. I like that she was like, I'm going to be an entrepreneur and I'm going to get into the spa business. That's, you know, first, shout out to her for not going for the t-shirt business, which is the obvious one in the challenge world. But this just seems like really hard. There's not a lot of successful spas. Like, that's why, you know, they come and go. It seems like a really high barrier to entry. Like, could it even be a nice spa? Well, here's the thing. When I think of spa, the thing you want out of a spa, right, is calm. Yes. That is the last thing I associate with

Camila. Right. Like, it's the last thing. She is, she's fiery. Maybe she's trying to, like, become calm. And that's why she's embarked on this. But in my mind, she blows her top once a day at the spa. I would not want to work for her. She'll, oh yeah, she'll lose her mind and scream, you will die as somebody. And it's about, I would pay so much money to go to that spa and have Camilla yell at me. She, you know, a few years ago, like, was so drunk that she just, like, was walking on the patio. She just walked into the pool without even thinking about it. And I think that has been used in every episode, every season, whether she's on show or not, like showing like how crazy it can get. Is that one Camilla moment? They actually show two over and over. In her screaming, you will die. Oh, yeah. Exorcist possesses her.

And throwing the chair really hard. She's just great TV. She's just great. She's back. She's partnered with Tony. He needs his own like exegesis, so we're going to come back to him. Great. But Johnny Riley also back and he says that all he's been doing is been eating Twinkies and playing World of Warcraft in his mom's basement. His partner is Jessica from Portland. former roommate. She sucks. Yeah, I'm not excited about her. No. And here's one of my problems, because you know who I do love. I love Avery. Oh, yes. I don't know why, how do you not put Avery and Johnny together? I think something really bad happened between them. Correct, and that's why I want to see them work together, right? I wonder if it's like almost like dangerous to put them together.

Oh, interesting. Because I feel like I don't want to like accuse anyone of anything, but I could just see that getting out of hand. Like, I could see that just being too, like, too combustible. Yeah. You're probably. Right. Avery is on the show, though. But yeah. And she's been like basically aborting Johnny and vice versa. And teamed with Leroy, who on paper, that might be my favorite team.

Oh, yes. Of all time. I think Avery and Wes seem like they're headed for a hookup. And Avery and Kelly Ann really look alike to me. Like, Avery is like the new school, Kellyan and Kellyan and West famously dated. So, Wes has a type. I feel like I wish, and you may know this better because you follow. Do we know if Avery's single right now?

I don't know, actually. I wish that was included in the. stats at the beginning. It should be. Just so I know what to expect. That's a great note. You know? Yeah, because just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean you want to hook up with

someone, but like it just adds a level of gravity if you do. Exactly. That's a great note. We got to pass it along to Buna Murray. Okay, so Jessica, who is Johnny's partner, she recently moved to L.A. to be a chef. So we could, you know, seek her out and try to get her to cook for us. Several real, former real world members are in L.A. trying to be chefs. Who else?

Trying to be a chef is very specific. Vegas one. Not Eri-Lawn, but... Arisa? Arisa is a chef. Interesting. We can hire her to come to our house and cook dinner. That would be a great reality TV special.

Right. Where are they now, like top chef cook-off? Without question. Oh, that would be great. Again, free ideas were given. I love it. Leroy, who you mentioned as your favorite, he's back. It's great.

He came with a pinch nerve. That's a real fighter. And let's discuss his job. Okay, thank you. Quote, I bartended for the Britney Spears show, close quote. He also said, you may know her. She's kind of an icon. Then he said, also, I party and I do challenges.

So the Britney Spears shows only three nights a week. I've learned. Just so you know, Britney Spears makes like $50 million a year working three nights a week. As she should. Sure, she deserves it. Did you read that long article about her in the New York Times recently? I did not, but I have been to the Britney Spear show. You have?

And it's worth every penny. Really? Oh, it's fantastic. What's her best number? I did not know, by the way, that Leroy was working there. Yeah, you messed up. I didn't know. I don't know how I didn't know this.

You could have seen him. I would have spent so much more just to hang out with Leroy. I know. It's amazing. I bet he only works at places where, oh, I guess Vegas is very, like,

guys here, women here. Yeah. He probably only goes to, like, where it's all women. I feel like Leroy is beloved by all. He transcends gender.

It's true. He is beloved. Like, everyone does love him. Wait, what was the best Britney Spears number? Like, what's your favorite Britney song?

You just asked me two different questions. Sorry. Toxic best number. Oh, sure. Well, it's a good, dancers. I get it. Yeah. It was a good video too on the airplane. I think that's right. Yes, that was a good one. I can't believe you went. I'm in awe.

Look, I'm a big Vegas fan and we can get to that. This is part of part of why I dislike this latest season of how interesting. Yeah. So I, you know, and I like a good show. I like any, me too. I love pageantry. Correct. So you can convince me to do any show in Vegas. I've been dying to go to the Celine one. Vegas guest of all time. Because if anyone wants to go to any show, yeah, I would go to any of them playing. I've heard Mariah is good too. I'm sure. Because she like comes in on like some weird jet ski or something like that.

Because anyone that has a lengthy catalog of hits and a flayer for pageantry is going to be great in Vegas. It's going to be a great Vegas show. I wish that I had seen Shania Twain actually. She did not see her. She's like a weirdly underrated star, I think. If you look at her Wikipedia page, she's got so many hits. It's a great Wikipedia page. I feel like she's an unsung hero of the 90s.

Okay. So if you're going to Vegas, you know where to find Leroy. he's bartending for the Britney Spear show. Just incredible. Incredible. That's just everything I want from Leroy. You may also find me there now that I know that, just hanging out with Leroy buying drinks. Okay, so everyone knows where to find you.

This is great. We also have back Nicole, who's Nani's cousin. Nicole also seems to have a new personality since we last saw her. And she works at a strip club, but not because she's a stripper. She's a bartender there. So what's the over-under for how many challenges from now she has become a, when she has become a stripper? Like two.

I would say one. And I would take the under. I would take the under. I feel like everyone's taken one. Yeah, I think so too. Also, I like that she pointed out that her eyelashes don't fall off because she's got the good glue. Yes, that was amazing. Amazing, right?

Yeah. So the challenge this week was like something involving heights and she was like, you're like dangled over water. It really doesn't matter with the challenges. I'm not even going to explain it. Heights and dangling. Which is always the challenge, right? Yes. And this is one of my thoughts on how to, how to improve the show.

I think I'm over dangling over water challenges. No more high. Yeah, it's like they've really exploited the fear of heights as far as it can go. I think so. And one thing I did notice, though, is so, like, basically there's, like, two beams. There's a risk of falling off. It doesn't really matter what happens. Don't worry about it.

Correct. So then some of the girls fell off. And I noticed there were different, like, amounts of, like, length on the bungee cords. Like, some were dangling a lot more than others. That was really weird to me. I was like, is there a hierarchy here? Like, are they trying to induce fear from some, but not others? Probably.

It was so weird. The people they knew weren't scared, they probably didn't drop as far. Probably. Just because it takes longer to get them back up. Yeah. Let's just get through it. Yeah, that was a great line from Nicole. That's like a top three line.

She also is much more comfortable in front of the camera, as seems now. She's coming out of her shell a little bit. Though I thought, I think she had a sneaky strong season last season. Yeah. I thought she was pretty great. Yeah. She went, was it Tony she went insane on? Yes.

Yeah, a great moment. Yes. I feel like, and again, anyone in the Nani bloodline, I feel like is, is, is, slated to be a star. I'm just out of pure draft sensibility. I would take anyone with those same overlap genes. If you can get some of

that fire, you got to hold on to it. Yeah. Just take the back. There are two bloodline pairings, Nani and Nicole, and then Johnny and Vince, who were back together. And I feel like the production went out of their way to not show them together this time. Oh, you're right. You're right. There was no shot with

Nani with Nicole, and there was no shot of Johnny with Vince, which I thought was kind of weird, but I I guess they're just trying to, it's part of like the narrative building or something. It's good for the Nicole's and the vincers of the world. Yeah. Because it's actually saying that they can now shoulder their own character. Absolutely. It's, it's a display of trust.

Vince's partner is Jenna, who is like a great challenge character and someone I would never, ever want to be around in real life. Yeah, I agree with both of those statements because she's great though. When Jenna's on the screen, I'm like, oh, good, Jenna's here. Is she one of our greatest female athletes? Like, she's really good at challenges. And, you know, she, I think she would describe herself as not. the brightest person. But she's so good-natured that you're just happy.

She just makes me happy watching her. She just wants to have fun, jump in the pool. Yeah. She's a good time. She really is. Okay. Last people to mention, Kellyanne is back. This is kind of like the undercard.

They're really important people who are back are bananas, Sarah, Nani, and West. So let's just talk about bananas first. Last scene, not what. He didn't even make it to the final last time. So his power, he's kind of like a LeBron right now. He needs to prove himself. He got got last time. Hard.

Yeah. You know, and so we'll see. We may be witnessing the athlete. This might be Jordan on the Wizards. Yeah. Like this might be overstaying his welcome just a touch too long. It's true. But he did come out with a really strong toast this time.

One of the best. Incredible. So one, this is something I've mentioned on podcasts before, but Johnny came to a Grantland party once. Really? And gave, yes, and gave like a sneak preview of his toast. And I didn't realize at the time, but it turned out to be like the, the word for word speech from

lone survivor that is given in the beginning and also in the trailer. He said like I'm a lover, I'm a fighter, I'm a MTV Challenge Survivor. And I think it's like really like I'm a lover, I'm a fighter like I'm a US like Marine something something. Like he totally co-opted it. And it was a really good speech this time.

And I meant to like write on the lyrics and Google them to figure out like what he was copying now. Because he's just not capable of writing those speeches. Yeah. Without question. But apparently he's got like a great like toast inspiration board on Pinterest because he is just, he comes with the fire, you know? He's got good taste too.

Yes. And also last time I was very mad. They showed like three toasts happening on the first episode in the previous season. They only showed Johnny's this time, which I was very happy about. Like let's, you know, give him his proper place as the Toast Master. That's right. He should host like the opposite of like a roast on Comedy Central. Yeah, but like great toasts.

Yeah, exactly. By the way, I would pay Johnny to come just give toasts at the next function. Maybe at the dinner that you're hosting where Orissa is. cooking, Johnny can give a toast. Or first day of shooting on any movie I do. Sure. Just have Johnny come and say like every crew gather around. Johnny's going to say something.

From working on this lot. I'm dead serious. Johnny, if you're listening, how much... We can hook you up with that. He's a friend of the ringer. Great. So Bananas is back and he's really pissed at Sarah. He actually let Sarah fall.

He kind of threw the challenge to allow his partner Sarah to like dangle off the ledge, literally. See, here's the thing. I feel like, and tell me if you agree. Okay. I feel like you could tell that Johnny and Sarah are drumming up conflict, that they actually don't have the level of conflict, but they know that this is what their characters are supposed to be doing. They're such pros. They know that they need that. And I don't like it.

Interesting. They're too savvy right now. The two of them in particular have always been very savvy. They've always been ahead of the curve in terms of knowing what sound bites to give. Everything feels very scripted. He's the opposite of Jamie. Right. Like his sound bites are very crisp.

They land. They land. But it, it, it, it, it, is. the rough edges. He's kind of admitted that too. Like he says like he knows how to work the cameras. He knows what's going to get him on. I mean,

he's been on this so many times. And as far as I can tell, he doesn't do anything else. He is dating like a world-class Olympic snowboarder named Hannah Teeter. Wow. And he basically just like, I think travels around with her.

Great. And also like post pictures of him of him with Kevin, with Kenny and Evan. I just put their names together. Great. And so I think he's just really dedicated to the challenge. I think him not winning hurts his. to his income. I think he probably relies on it. I can't imagine he does anything else. Although,

I wonder what he gets for a club appearance now. How much would you be willing to pay Johnny to give a toast at your dinner? Or sorry, if it's part of your budget for your first day of filming? $125,000. Wow. Sure. That's how much I would pay. That's not the budget. That's just out of my pocket. Wow. Just to see it happen. I would love to work on your set then. It sounds like you really care about morale. I'm very generous. Yes. So Johnny and Zara back. They might be milking it. Sarah. disappointed in her of her coming back. I thought she was kind of beyond this. And I felt like she'd really grown.

I thought we'd seen a full arc of her character from having a crush on Kenny to leaving the show, getting married. She has a full Etsy store you can buy stuff from. And now she's back. Like, were you just too free? Like, I don't understand it. Yeah. She's in that phase where it's over, Sarah.

And you haven't accepted it yet. Yes. And she will. Like, there's a certain point where if you're married, you probably shouldn't be on challenges unless you've married. Whereas like Brad and Tori, you can come on anytime. Right. Because you marry, if you marry a former challenge person, I'll take five years.

Of course. But other than that, bring your kids. You shouldn't be there. It's not for you. Would you watch a family challenge? Like Robin has kids now. Jasmine is not on the show anymore because she's had a baby. Like, would you watch a challenge with kids?

Like, if they all went to like club med and did the challenge there or something? I would watch it. I don't think I would like it. Okay. I would watch every episode of it. Would it be good TV? Probably not. because there's something about kids that makes it gross.

Yeah. And also it would really, like, you know, every bad decision they made with, like, the repercussion would be, like, right in front of you. Right. You're just reminded. You couldn't excuse it. Yes, you couldn't excuse it. We also got Nani back who was like, finally, I don't know why I took her so long, accepted that this is emotional and she's just got to like give herself over to it. I feel like she's given that speech every time. Yes.

And it takes exactly one episode for her to forget those lessons. Like she just, God bless her. I love her so much. She is fascinating. She's also a bartender, although it didn't come up, but I just know that about her. Great. And so I guess that's the family business. I don't think she's at a strip club, though.

I wonder who she's going to hook up with because there's not a lot of options for her. Like, I feel like she's been through a lot of people. And the new, the new, Are You the One people I'm just really not that into because I don't know them. Well, that's my question for you. Do I need to be watching Are You the One? Because I'm not. My brother watches it and, like, tried to convince me to. But I don't know.

I don't know if I have space in my heart. for that. Well, it does feel like it is now an official. It's an official feeder. It's opposed to just one show that they grab somebody fun off of. Right. Which sometimes happens. Now it feels like, no, that show exists to feed the challenge. Right. So if that's the case, maybe we have to. I have to. I love Darya. I'm really happy he's back. Your enthusiasm for Dario makes me love Dahlia. I'm like, okay. And by the way, I want him and Nicole to date. Oh, yeah. Don't you feel like that? That would be great. That is a couple that will be fun to watch. He just seems so misguided that it's incredible. Like, he's delusional about himself.

Yep. He doesn't seem to get embarrassed. That's the goal, that's the golden quality for these shows, like inability to be embarrassed. A lack of self-awareness. Yes, which brings us, let's just talk about Tony. Let's just, we just have to. Like, you, we could have spent the last 25 minutes talking about Tony. We'll try not to spend 25 minutes on him, but it's going to be hard. So Tony is from real world skeletons, Chicago. And I remember, I remember, I remember, specifically, you know, five minutes into his first episode going, he is going to be a challenge, Godson. Yeah. Like you could just tell right away he's just built for this. He is so ridiculous. So on the challenge, he immediately, like, he hooked up with two of the girls in the house, sorry,

on the real world. One of whom was this woman Madison, who he has since had a child with. They broke up because he cheated on her. And then she still got pregnant by him. And now they have a baby named Harper, and she's like four months old. So there's that to begin with. He cheated on her on camera. On camera. Yeah. Yeah. She was multiple people. Five minutes into the last season. Yes. He came in guns blazing. Yes. So, okay, so he's a dad. Great. Congrats, Tony. The miracle of life. Then it came out a couple weeks ago that one of the skeletons who appear on on the show, one of his ex-girlfriends that he was still like entangled with named Melissa is also pregnant by him. And so he has another child on the way. He's going to be a father in two states, presumably. And he's going to stay on these shows for

the child support. He needs the money. Tony, very virile. Very virile. Very virile. And last time we saw him on one of these shows, he had on the first night, impulsively, even though he was dating Madison hooked up with Christina from already the one who was also back. So that's like that's like where we're coming from with Tony. Okay. Let me ask the female perspective. Okay. Because because from my point of view, we have all, all, every man has lost a girlfriend to Tony. Sure. And I don't mean, there's a Tony out there. No, I mean actual Tony. I mean we've all, like there is something about Tony that people, that women seem to find irresistible. Do you find this true or not? No. Do you see what it is because clearly a certain type of a woman finds Tony irresistible. Right. What is it about Tony?

I think it's that Tony seems like he should be unavailable. Like he has so many options, but he's actually incredibly available because he has no standards, or not just no standards, but just likes everyone. Like he seems to like all women. It's true. So I think he's an enthusiast. I think that like his availability is so surprising that it wins over people like Jessica. That makes total sense. That's my take on Tony. And he literally seems to just like every single woman. Yep. Maybe every person

because he started doing like a ridiculous thing which was Tony's top 13 girls which he was like listing on a pad so that must have been partially for the cameras

but he probably does that as someone who ranks everything I get it yep. Absolutely. And he was like he was doing it with Jessica and he was like

number one is you which I thought he was just saying to like because she was right there but it seems like he likes her. No, let me let me dive deeper on it.

Oh please do. Let's remember Jessica took a chastity vow. Oh, I forgot about that. She took a chastity vow. I totally forgot about that. She is not going to sleep with anyone until she is married, which to Tony is a challenge. It's just a yellow lighting blow past.

Hit the accelerator and come right in here. That is the worst idea for Tony and for Jessica. But let's watch what happens. I mean, what's the overrunner? I bet Tony sleeps with her in two episodes. Oh, yeah. I'm so excited. Two episodes, that chastity ring is coming off.

I totally forgot about that. Thank you for the reminder. Tony also said he was into Avery. It seems like everyone's into Avery all the time. Sure. And then he was like trying to be funny and like put bananas on his list. And so he just, I don't know if that was an act for the camera for Jessica or like just something Tony does. And it's hard for me to rule out the third option because I do make lists out of everything.

Yeah. So. I think he could objectively find bananas attractive. Sure. I know I do. Yeah. I think bananas is looking great. But I'd put him on my list.

Bananas is bulked down a little bit in a good way and he looks more like a human. And I think he looks great. He has a nice shave, good haircut going on. Again, five-time champ. Yeah, he's a five-time champion. You can deny the appeal of the belt. Good grooming for him. So Tony's partner is Camilla, and Camilla was not excited about that.

And Tony said, like, in his own defense, she's only seen drunk offensive Tony. Tony, that's all we've only seen. That's right. We've all only seen that from you. And he's like, she hasn't seen me compete. That's all we want to see, Tommy. Let's be clear. I don't care if you're a good athlete.

Yeah. Although he did have a strong showing in the actual challenge. He did? I don't even remember. That's how much the challenge actually registered. dessert. I cannot remember anything other than people just repeatedly falling down on a rope. It was a 90-minute episode and like 15 minutes were spent on the challenge and that felt like too long. I wish I could have seen them like going to a bar. They must have gone to a bar.

I'm sure Mexico has a lot of good options for that. I would assume so. And it's also, I bet they should save money on flights so they can put more money into the alcohol budget. You're not going anywhere too far. Yeah, the problem was Camilla is really short. So one thing that they do on Survivor is that whenever there's a challenge, they tailor it to each person. so there's no advantage, no physical advantage based on like a height or whatever. Right. On this, they did not do that. Too much work.

Yeah. It was way too much. Too much work for them. You're totally right. I think that's right. So like Jenna won and Camilla did not win. Many people did not win. But Camilla among them because she's just really short.

She's too short. It's not really fair. It was not fair. I guess they just don't care. Yeah. They really must not. And like Camilla's shortness really came up because Tony was next to her and also next next to Cheyenne at one point.

and he just looked like a giant and I was like how do they find all these women under five feet that's like hard to do because I don't get the sense Tony's a giant no I don't think so I think he's like regular size he's a solid he's like a six footer I think that's probably right yeah so he got into a fight with Cheyenne

and she was mad at him for claiming that she said he wanted to hook up with him or with someone and she kept yelling at him if you ever lie on me and is that a freest construction you've ever heard before no but it's one that I will use from now on if you ever lie on me, which was also so funny

because she was mad at him for like making a sexual innuendo and then she kind of was doing that as well unintentionally. That was great. It was really weird. Because she also said, I know where you eat and I know where you sleep. I don't remember her. I guess she was she must have been voted off like the first

season. Yeah, which usually happens with rookies. Usually rookies are the first to go so you have to show up a couple of seasons before I'll even know your name. Yeah. I was just so happy that Tony was here and they gave him Camilla a good partner, I think partially to ensure that he stays for a while. Yes.

Because he got hurt on the last challenge. The one before that, he was a rookie, so he was voted off. And, like, we need a lot of Tony. I think it's going to be a good season, but, like, Tony is integral to it being a great season. Right. There's a couple people that they go early, I'm going to be super bummed. Yeah. Like, I think Johnny also and Sarah, like, is, like, a stacked team.

And I'm sure that was intentional. It's almost too stacked, though, right? Yeah. That team's going to be tough. If they do not take bananas out early, which I'm always shocked that teams don't do. I know. It's always shocking that you don't go right after bananas. He must be fun because like why else would you keep him around? I think that's part of it. I think part of it is what happens when you're not on the show. Right. That he's the ambassador. You get the better club

appearances if Johnny is your friend. Right. So you're going to, it's going to hurt your earning. It's like a rising tide lifts all boats. Correct. And Johnny bananas is the tide. And if Johnny hates you, you're screwed. Right. He's, uh, he's, he's Jordan and this is the dream team. Right. You don't want to be Isaiah. Right. You do not want, he will nicks you. So I think there's part of that. You don't want to go after him. But the sad part is you have to go after him to win. I wonder if Tony and Johnny can coexist.

They're very different. Even though they're both good for the TV show, they're very different types of characters. Tony is just dumb. He makes dumb, inexplicable decisions that are bad for his old life. It's like he almost sabotages himself. Yeah, but that's what makes him such great television.

It's true. Because he will never have Johnny's self-awareness. Right. I never feel like Tony's delivering a soundbite. I feel like he's just talking. And the first thing that popped in his head is what he said, and that's what I want. Johnny's like the narrator and Tony is sort of like the star. Yep.

Johnny's like Nick Carraway and Tony is our Jay Gatsby. Correct. That is the correct analogy. Do you think Tony's ever heard of the Great Gatsby? No. There's just no way. No. He's probably, I wonder like how many books he has read in his life. Do you think it's under 20?

Without question. I will bet my fortune on it. All the money you're going to give Johnny for giving him. All that money can go to Tony. If you're wrong, yeah. Without question. Who do you think is most likely to be the one that gets kicked off that disappoints T.J? That's a good question.

Tony's got to be in the conversation. I think it could be Dario, who I really, who I. Dario, absolutely. Let's come up in our top five. On the woman's side, Camilla? Maybe Cheyenne from what I saw last night. Yeah, somebody could go really, it's all about crossing some sort of line. I don't think Camilla.

She doesn't, like, she gets really upset, but she doesn't get violent. I feel like it's got to be being violent. Or like something really stupid. Right. Want to argue the one guy who really set out to me was Brandon, who apparently on the show had a relationship with blonde Christina. Yes. And now has a girlfriend that seems like she's programmed all of his responses.

I believe he also had a relationship with another girl on the show. Yes. Alex as well. Yes, he did. Yeah. And it seemed like his current girlfriend said you are not allowed to be paired with Christina. Yeah. under any circumstances.

Right. That was the obvious pairing. Right. And so he's with Brianna, who doesn't like him. Yep. But they seem like they're going to hook up to me. They seem like they have the kind of like tension. That's my most likely for TeamSest is them.

I think you're right and I'm excited about it. I have to say normally I'm not excited for an Are You the One member? No. Except for Dario, of course. Yeah, but this season I'm sort of excited about it. I feel like it's a strong group. You're welcoming them into your heart. I like it.

I am. Look, I want the best for them always. You want the best for the franchise. And that's R. the one we have to get behind it. I learned. It took, you know, years to learn. Sometimes the best talent doesn't come from the real world. Sometimes it comes from fresh meat. It's true. You know, like sometimes it comes from these new places. Freshmeats's given us so much. That's right. And so you never know. Tell me about this real world season, because I'm not watching it. It's in Las Vegas again, right?

Look, I am a, I'm a part of the reason where you're talking is because I'm such a real world fan. Yes. I would argue that real world is one of the greatest television shows in the history of television. And so it hurts me to say this. Yeah. It is said with love, but I think this is one of the worst real world seasons. Well, it's really been buried. It's been on 11 on MTV on Wednesdays, Tuesdays. It's really bad. I think they know it's bad. Isn't there like someone on it who's like just like objectively racist and like very open about it? No, she's just young. Oh, okay. They're making that the storyline. Interesting. But she's just young and from the south and says it says the occasional thing that sounds bad. But it's it fits the very real world paragon.

paradigm of we're from different worlds and we say things but we learn by the end. That's clearly what's happening. I like her. You know, you can tell she makes mistakes. The problem is it's just boring. Right. The show is just boring. Did they have a job? No. And part of the problem is I believe that the other two real world seasons are two of the best in history. I feel like, I feel like Vegas has a, has a booyah base that creates great real world seasons. It's so true. Really hard to make a bad real world season. It's really, it's very true. The first one, was with Stephen, Alton, and Erlon and all of them. And when they were like, that was like, that was acknowledged as one of the most important

real world seasons when everything kind of like changed, basically. You felt like they made the change to go from all the time social awareness to let's just get kids in here who are going to sleep with each other and party. Totally. And now they kind of jump back and forth between the two on that dial. But that first Vegas was just. It was wild. Stephen and Trichel.

Well, it was a great season. And then Alton turned out to be one of the greatest challenge competitors of all time. Absolutely. Until he sullied his legacy. But that's okay. We'll just ignore that. The body starts to shut down. I guess so.

I guess so. And then the other one was with Dustin and Heather, Nani, Adam Royer. Yeah. I really believe it's the best season of all time. Do you love Vegas as a city to visit or as just like a place for reality television? All of the above? Interesting. Yeah.

I do not like Las Vegas. See, I'm a compulsive gambler. You are? So that helps. What's your game? What do you got? Anything? I will gamble on anything.

That's how you and I know each other. Yeah, from a survivor pool. Yeah. Wow. Frankly, I owe my career to gambling on reality television. Are you good at it? No. But I'm fun.

I recognize that pools like this, your job isn't really to win. Your job is to be the fun member of the collective. Sure. As opposed to the person that is a real bummer. We've all competed. with the person who's a bummer, don't be the person in the pool that's a bummer. What's your origin story with betting on reality TV? So I, Survivor Season 1 comes on.

Yeah, yeah. Deep cut. It's the year 2000. It is. And I'm a PA. I'm a production assistant on a floor where everyone has development deals in television. So it's all these TV writers, right? And I know I want to be a writer, but I'm very naive and I'm from New Mexico.

and I don't, you know, know how to do this. But they sort of liked me and I would do all the jobs no one wanted to do. And I also loved, I was an early fantasy football adopter. You know, we were doing it in high school when there was no internet. When you'd add it up in the box scores. Oh my God. So I was constantly looking for ways to draft things. I love my favorite thing in the world is to do a draft of any kind.

Really? So Survivor Season 1 starts or finishes and it's a phenomenon. It's hard now to really remember. It's pretty cool to go back. and read about Survivor Season 1. It was the last sort of gasp of the old television. Yeah. Where everyone in the world was watching the same thing in real time.

Right. And so it really, when Richard Hatch won, it changed the world. It changed how narrative television, our approach to narrative television. It changed what you thought as a viewer could happen. Because you never saw a villain win the way Richard Hatch won. You never saw that happen. And so it was really exciting. It was really exciting to me.

And so when season two came around, I said, I bet we can draft. I bet we can figure out how to make Fantasy Survivor. So I went into the office there, and I just started putting up everyone's pictures on the board. I made a draft board. And what happened was all of the producers started walking by, and they'd say, what is this? This looks exciting, you know, because Survivor was really in the zeit guys at the time, too. And I just explained, oh, we're going to do a game and we're going to have a draft. And they started arguing right away, like, oh, well, clearly you want Colby.

Clearly you want this. And I said, come join the fun. and so all of those people joined. Marty Knoxon was one of them. Oh. Works on this lot, in fact. Who I love. And so I got to know her through that.

And she said, Drew, you seem fun. Let me read your stuff. Cool. She read my stuff and said, why don't you come work at Buffy? So that's how I got my job at Buffy. That's amazing. I mean, look, when people ask,

how do you get ahead in Hollywood? My best advice is, and you can't just be good at your job. Be good at your job. That's a given. But also try to make other people's lives better. too. So try to come up with the things that don't be told to go make a survivor pool. Just do it. Right. Just do it. Right. They'll start looking around and go, let's keep doing this.

Right. This is fun. It's like the fun thing people didn't know they wanted. It's true. That's right. That's exactly right. And that, so then we've done that every year since then. Right. And that has ballooned up into a point, I don't even know if I've told you this. So 10 years ago, one of the, it's now a group of screenwriters mostly who do this. And whoever loses has to buy the dinner. And that has been Oh, nice. Because everyone's trying to stick each other. The bill is always outrageous. And we go to these crazy restaurants and order whatever.

And it's fun. At one year, they told Jeff Probst about. Somebody told Jeff Probst. He showed up to surprise us. That's incredible. And delivered our trophy. Whoa. And now he had so much fun at the dinner.

Now he comes every year to our dinner. That is so cool. And we just ask him survivor questions. He's a man. So if you have questions for Probst, just let me know. I'll get the answer. This is blowing my mind. He's like one of the most underrated.

talents across field, like ever to be alive. Without question. He is so good at what he does. The fact that he does not just win the Emmy every year outright. It's outrageous. It's just fatigue. They should, like, name an Emmy after him. Without question.

He is so good at, like, the play-by-play. And when he, like, modulates his voice, it's amazing. And now Drew, he's making a comeback. That's right. Like, even if he has, like, PA's or, like, producers, like, in his earpiece telling him where to look, he's still, like, ad-libbing all of it. You can't fake that. Yeah.

Like, you can't fake that, not for this long. That's amazing. him. That is all him. And he really, like, he's really fun to talk to, especially if you love the show, which I love Survivor. Yeah, I do too. And so he'll really talk to you about how they make the show. And the more I learn about it, the more impressed I am with the show, I already consider to be one of the great television shows of all the time. Sure. The production on it is incredible. It's incredible. It's probably like someone who has, like, production experience. It must be, like, really fascinating to think about. It's gorgeous. Yeah. That show, that's the other thing. Like, when you watch other reality

shows, nothing looks like Survivor. I remember when they went to, um, HD for Survivor Gobone. And I was It's like, wow, these are great shots of the animals. It's really hard when they cut back two shots of season one and two when they weren't in HD. It looks rough. You're like, oh, this is how we used to behave as a civilization, and I don't care for it. I know. It's funny when you go, like, I love Gilmar Girls. And so when I watch that now, they've made it look good for Netflix, but if you watch it's

indicated version, it looks really bad. It's funny. And that show's not even that old. And I mean, I was, like, obsessed with every WB show, basically, including Buffy. So I just, it's funny when you go back and look at them. They just, they look so different than the way TV's made now. It's as jarring as black and white to color. Yeah.

Like it really is that, at that big a jump now when you look at the quality. That's so funny. What are some of your other favorite reality shows? Well, Survivor and Real World to me are the, are the, are the cool. They're the OGs. They're the OGs. And they're the ones that I still keep up with. I think right now in terms of new kid on the block, it's Vanderpump.

It's amazing. I mean, Vanderpump is the one. It's incredible. It might be the best show on television right now. It's, it also, sort of like The Bachelor has gotten a lot more popular more recently. Yes. Like The Bachelor's been on forever.

And right now it's probably like the peak of its popularity, I think. And at least maybe it has to do it the internet or something. But Vanderprop has been on for like four or five years now. And I think this past season, it really like hit a cultural touchstone where it was just mainstream. I think that's right. I'm on like a crazy email chain with like 30 people that like don't even know each other that just talk about Vanderpump rules, even in the off season. Yeah, it's just, I think it's just the quality, quite honestly. Yeah.

Like it's really, it just steps its game up every season. And it's getting, it's phenomenal. My only problem with it is it makes me feel sad about L.A. I see, that's interesting because I actually, it makes me love L.A. It does. Yeah, but I know what you're saying because to me it is the best depiction of L.A. that has been on, on the air without question. Like it is, it shows what L.A. is really like.

And I don't mean how they think they're presenting L.A. I mean the reality of what's actually happening. Sure. Like people who move here to become actors or models. And talk about all their big breaks and even get a reality show. And so there's this meta game of, oh, they're getting four grand an episode. So that's actually their job. Right.

But they think in their brains this is their big break. Right. And so the facade holds. Right. Like we are still watching L.A. for what it is. Yeah. Which delights me. And when you like read an interview with Schwartz or Tom Sandoval, they are like really invested in their other careers.

Like Tom Sandoval really cares about his band and like music videos he's making. and his most recent music video, dare I say, not too bad. Not too bad. But I would never have seen it were it not for Vanderpump rules. So there is, look, it's possible. Sure. It's possible to break out of the reality show world. Sure.

It's just very, very, very difficult. The thing that's weird about Vanderpom and I don't want to sound like an agist, but like Tom Sanofal is like old for this. Like he doesn't have like a long career and music ahead of him. He's like he's mid-30s. Which is true. I mean, I think that that's how you would find. people that will go on Vanderpump.

That's true. You know, like you have to be, you have to have tried the other thing and didn't, it didn't worked out for you. Right. There's an aged, there's a Kevin Costner and Bull Durham feel. Sure. This is your last run. And you better bring it.

Have you been to sir? I have. The food is medium. The food is medium, but, but Peter being the manager. I know. And James actually being the DJ there and, or seeing Tom in the back smoking is worth, I'll eat the shitty food. There's, um,

A parking lot, like it's hard to park in West Hollywood, very hard. And there's a parking lot behind it, basically, where you, then it's the best place. It actually works out really well. Like, don't valet when you go to Sir. Use that public lot because then you can, like, see the environment where they're having their fights in the back. It's so great. It's great.

And it actually, they're actually there. Yeah, they really are. Which tells me they're not making that much from the show. Apparently, Jacks only bartends one night a week now because it gets too crazy. The fact that he's still doing it. I know. At all. I know.

I was so sad when Jack's's mom came to visit this year. It, there was a feeling of reality intruding. here. And also like, why hadn't she come before and is she happy with her son's life? I don't know. Like, while I love it is television, the like real human element. Like, their apartments are so terrifying. They're so dirty. So, yeah, part of why I love the show is Katie and Tom live in the apartment next door to where I used to live. Oh my God. When I was a PA. And so it's fun to just see my street. Like this show really has. No. That's what's crazy. Everything looks exactly the same. And this is now 20 years ago. And so it's like, this is LA. This is, you know, people,

uh, uh, diluted people trying to make it. And, but just going to clubs. That's Los Angeles. And it delights me. If only they had started a reality fantasy league for their office, maybe they could be doing better. Correct. Then they could have worked on Buffy. Sanofal. I got some advice for you. So what's the, I'm going to ask you a few questions about your career. Great. This is now, now you're the reality TV person. Okay. I'm on it. What's like the thing that people are most passionate about? that you've worked on. Because you've got a lot.

You've got Buffy. You've got Lost. Angel. Now you've got the Martian, which I think it will be a movie that people love forever. Yeah. The Martian certainly,

the Martian was the first one that I said to my mom. Mom, I've finally done something that you can tell your friends to go see. Because usually I do something like cabin in the woods and my mom would tell,

she's like, I got all my friends together and we're going to watch you. I'm like, mom, please do not show that movie to your friends. But what about Jesse Williams? The greatest. Who doesn't love Jesse Williams? Who doesn't love Jesse Williams?

I can't believe our cast. Yeah. We had Hemsworth. I know. It's incredible. That's the greatest. But yeah, so Martian is definitely the biggest, the widest tent, I suppose. Buffy fans will always, I mean, admittedly I'm biased.

Sure. I love Buffy. Sure. That's my first. And so Buffy fans will always be the most passionate. I think Buffy probably changed the most lives, which means something. Like people come up to you and they're genuine about that, and that means a lot. But no, look, I've been really lucky.

Yeah. She's worked on a lot of things that I'm certainly proud of. was it like to be like in the Lost Vortex when that was happening? Because you worked in seasons three, four? Yeah, but I did. I think I wrote my first episode season one. Oh, you did? Yeah, alias and Lost were in the same building. Right. And so I would just, I would just walk around and say, hey, can I help? Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, because I love that show right away. And so, and so it was fun. It was, it was interesting because right before that, I had been on Angel, which was the lowest rated of anything I've been on. And so the network just left a

alone. And I would say that the last Angel season creatively is the strongest season I've ever been a part of. Like just from, just when I look at the writing of it, I go, this is our best written season of anything. And then Lost comes on and is such a gargantuan hit. I know.

Such a gargantuan hit. And the meddling, the amount of meddling that we would face every single day. It just reminded me, be careful what you wish for. Because Angel, they just left us alone. They didn't care. And I think we did our best work. And then Lost was loss was a joy but it was hard because what happens is when you become a big hit everyone wants

to now have their say in it right and they don't trust that no let the let the creatives do their thing so it's so fascinating it's hard to imagine a show also like having that same level of like like I feel like similar to survivor people are like whoa with loss it was of a time I mean as we as we get more diluted sure television which is I think is a great thing yeah there's so much good to be out there to do that. It is crazy. So I asked you before we started recording if you like disco music because of the disco music and the Martian. Did you, I haven't read the book, but I loved the movie. Did you write the music stuff in or is that part of the original? It's part of the book. Oh, interesting. But I got to

pick. Oh, cool. So that was, that's the fun part is playing the disco music and going, well, this would go well with this scene. That's so funny. And then Ridley changed some of them too. And he picked some great ones too so it was but that was that to me that was what clicked that was when I wanted to do the martian when I when I was driving around my car playing I think it was don't leave me this way and I went which didn't make it in the movie but I went oh this is the moot oh no it was waterloo when I played waterloo and thought oh he can destroy his spaceship to waterloo this is this will go together this is the tone so I went in and I played and said this is the tone of what we're talking about because the studio was very scared of space at the time really because it was before

gravity. So there hadn't been a hit. Interesting. It wasn't like a genre hit, like a Star Wars, Star Trek type hit. They thought that this would, it was going to tank. And I said, no, no, we're going to make it fun. Don't worry. I can't think of anyone other than Matt Damon who would like really carry a movie like that. He was incredible. I'm not, you know, I'm not supposed to say this. I guess I can say it. But we, you know, you make the list of who it could be. He was the only name on the list because you needed someone who you would believe as a rocket scientist first. You you needed someone who could be funny and who could break your heart and is worth, you know, the hundreds of millions of dollars that this movie's going to cost.

So you need someone who can do all of these things. And I've just whittled down the list. It's now Matt Damon. Right. And he was like incredible. And it just must have been fun as a screenwriter. And obviously correct me if not. But like he, because it's just one guy for so much of it, you really are very aware of the script

because it's just one person doing dialogue, basically. And he was amazing. And it was also just made, it was like a fun watch. Like, I had a great time watching it. Oh, that's nice to hear. No, he definitely made me look good, for sure. Like, I would highly recommend if you're a screenwriter getting Matt to do your movie. They'll think you're a better screenwriter.

Are you into space in general? For sure. Tate over here. It's like his main interest. Really? We talk about space so frequently. Tate and I shared an office for two months. Okay.

And we talked about space, like, pretty much every day. And, yeah, we just, we talked a lot of interstellar talk as well. Okay, great. And some gravity. But, yeah, we just, we love space at the ringer. We are always taking. wants to live 100 years on Mars. I love it in this room. It's very warm. It's funny. Anything you want to tease coming up? I mean, I feel like you are one of the busiest people.

I've been trying to get you to do this podcast for like 18 months. I'm so glad. Well, part of it was we needed to wait till we had the event. It's true. We needed the challenge. And it was it. We got a good episode this week. Kickoff of the challenge to me is almost as good as the Super Bowl. That's how much I look forward to it. It is really, really exciting. I really look forward to it. So I was really excited. One thing I really liked about this episode, which I forgot to note, was that new idea, which I am so pro, it's two-pronged. One is they had people come in at different times. So, like, Johnny arrived first. So that was very interesting. That was more real world than challenge. And then-

The anticipation, which is great. Who's coming? Exactly. Who I get? And then on a related note, he goes into the bedrooms. There's like a gigantic bedroom with beds of different sizes. That was an incredible touch. That was great. That was, whoever thought of that, whatever PA was like, you know what? Or like, maybe they just couldn't get all beds the same size, whatever it was. It was so funny. It took a great wrinkle to think about them interacting in the house that way. I think about it far too much because I also, my fairness, you know, my inner fairness

alarm always gets bothered when people pick their rooms without everyone there. But that's clearly the... They want that. But now they want that. And so that means the producers know that. And they have decided that Johnny gets first pick, right? Because they're sending him in that house first. That's not by accident.

Right. They, they're sending people in the house based on call times. Sure. They figured this out. And so that's a whole other game. Like, who are they sending in the last? That's probably the least important or a heavy hitter. Right.

To bring up the rear. But that person is getting a bad bed. Notice that the way they planned it led to Tony being put with all the women. Amazing. That's not by accident. That's not by accident. That was planned. By the way, they knew if all the women go down that room, well, let's save room for one guy, send Tony.

There's no question in my mind. In summation, the logistics coordinator of the challenge is our MVP of the first episode. Great job. Andrew, you're the MVP of this podcast. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. It's so much fun. I'm going to beg you to come back another time.

And yeah, thanks for listening. This has been Channel 33. Don't forget to check out After the Thrones on HBO Go, HBO now, HBO on demand, and even actual HBO. That is our friends, Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald's post show for Game of Thrones. And that is on Mondays. So check that out. And subscribe to all of our other podcasts, NBA show, NFL show,

Shackhouse, Bill Simmons Pod, and keeping at 1600.