The Press Box - Ep. 115: 'Ringer Wrestling Podcast' With David Shoemaker and Dan St. Germain

Episode Date: May 20, 2016

The Ringer's David Shoemaker and comedian Dan St. Germain on the recent rumblings around the wrestling world, ECW and hardcore wrestling in WWE (25:00), and a preview of WWE's 'Extreme Rules' (48:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So drop your old site and experience buying and selling tickets the way it should be. to start using Seatgeek, download the free Seatgeek app, or go to seatgeek.com. Welcome to Channel 33 and welcome to the unnamed Ringer Wrestling podcast. I'm David Shoemaker, aka The Maskman, although that's not my Twitter handle anymore. And I'm here today with my good friend, Dan St. Germain. Dan, how you doing? David, I'm great. Thanks for having me on.

It's a great new world here. Yeah, it's a pleasure. This looks like Right now it looks like the office we're at You know in True Detective When Woody Harrelson like kind of failed private detective business It has that There's just two office chairs in us looking at each other

Yeah it's it's incredibly awkward And made more awkward by the fact that our producers Are sitting there with their backs to us So I don't really it all made It's it's very strange We'll have a name for this podcast eventually I was just saying to Dan Before we started recording that it's like

that naming a wrestling podcast in the year 2016 is the hardest thing in the world because literally every phrase, every catch phrase, every name of every move, everything's gone. Everything's been taken. Yeah.

But, you know, I'm sure that, I'm sure that through the wisdom of Bill Simmons will figure something out. Dan, introduce yourself to the people who don't know who you are. My name is Dan St. Germain. I'm a stand-up comic here in Los Angeles. I knew you from New York.

I was in New York for like eight, eight years. A long time. time and I also have a podcast I call host the Not Safe with Nikki Glazer podcast. It's mostly her podcast. Her name is in the show and I write for them and I'm a huge wrestling fan so yeah there's I'm excited. I'm excited. Nicky Glazer pro wrestling crossover. There's a lot of crossover. Yeah, there's a lot of cross over. One thing you learn when you get to L.A. is that most writer's rooms are like 35% pro wrestling nuts. So you know yeah. There's a lot of it. There's a lot of us out there. Feel good about yourself wrestling fans. That's true. Although when you first bring up

you're a wrestling fan, it's kind of like bringing up your gay in the 1950s. Like you have to like say a couple things to like you be like, so what do you do on Monday night? You like hint things, you know? And then eventually you're like, oh, he's one of us. Yeah. Thank God. Or she is.

Mostly he's though. Yeah. It's better now than it was when I started doing this, when I started doing this writing about wrestling job. I'll say that much. Yeah. People still get it confused for UFC and boxing and obviously collegiate wrestling. But, you know, we're working.

We're working our way to prominence. Well, listen, we're going to talk today about Raw this past week. We're going to talk about Extreme Rules, which is coming up this weekend. I'm going to talk about hardcore wrestling in general and where it exists in the modern wrestling world or WWE in particular. But right off the bat, there's a couple of news items I wanted to make sure we touched on. The big one of today, which is, by the way, Andre the Giants, 70th birthday or would have been a 70th birthday. I saw from Stephanie McMahon's account. Yeah, well, Andre is getting a lot of due spotlight these days.

There's a movie and a documentary in the works separately. David Arquette, right? It's going to be playing it. I have no idea. He's going to be playing. That would be really great. David Arquette with like Lord of the Rings style special effects. I would be all in for that.

So John Sina was announced today as the host of the 2016 Espies Awards. I saw that. I'm excited for him. Yeah? I like John Cena. I mean, I was one of those guys in the beginning who, you know, thought he was super corny, but like, you know, even, um, even watching old clips last night to see how much he's evolved. It's, it's amazing. And he's like genuinely funny in train wreck,

you know? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's kind of, I mean, I don't know, I don't know, ironic is surely the wrong word, but it's interesting that John Cena is maybe better at everything besides being a wrestler. And actually, and I'm one of his defenders. I think he's a top-notch wrestler. Yeah. But his personality conveys on good more, I mean, on, uh, the Today Show sort of better than it does in the ring. Like, he's, he's like, my, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's, he's like, he's like, he's, He's like the white Michael Strayhan. All right. I think that's a good idea.

That's a good way to look at it. And I think he'll be great on the SPs. I mean, it'll be... Yeah, I mean, he's going to have like 20 riders. Hopefully it's not the same people

that wrote the Torito stuff. El Torito stuff. He'll have a bunch of riders. He's charming. He's funny. It'll be fine. He'll be great. We'll keep battle wraps to a minimum.

I think so. We'll bring him back. Yeah. Yeah, I saw him on... You know, he has that reality show, which is still in progress. I saw the first episode. Is it good?

Yeah. I mean, it's a reality show. Yeah. I mean, it's very, people are competing to see who's like the most all-American soldierish. It's really an unnerving thing to see John Cena in pants. And I mean, like, for some reason, I get the oversized suit that he wears on, like, the Today Show is sort of okay. But he was cut at the beginning of the reality show, he's wearing just like really form-fitting, like, military pants and a tight military sweater.

That guy's so big that no matter what long pants he wears, it looks like Capriese. You know, like, he's like, it just doesn't look appropriate for that guy. It looks like he's wearing, it's closer to naked than his wrestling attire is somehow. I'm not sure how that works. But yeah, he's great. And he also saw, he was on the last episode, I think, of American Idol. He was one of those, like, celebrities in the audience because Fox is pushing this show. Right.

So, seeing John Cena outside of the ring is always a little bit jarring. But he's very good at being that person. So congratulations to him. and yeah, I hope he does great on the SPs. Emily just had back surgery. Do you have any feelings on that? I mean, I know it's sad again because she seemed like she was starting to, you know,

kind of figure it out and... Totally true. But her new character was really great. At least she didn't, like, throw out her back like stealing some from CBS. That's just really inappropriate. That would have been worse. Oh, man, I don't have the court ruling here in front of me,

so I'm just going to not comment. And let's see, there are a couple interesting things on, there was an interesting bit from Dave Meltzer that I saw on Reddit about how WW's ad rates were like kind of shockingly low. Like they have the, they have such a desirable demographic, right? And even though the ratings are down, we all know they're down from years past, they're actually good for cable TV. Yeah.

And yet their ad rates are one-seventh of a UFC fight night and one tenth of just like, you know, cable show X. Yeah, I don't, I mean, maybe it's just because they know guys don't buy anything. Guys in particular. Guys in particular don't buy anything. You know, I don't know why that's the most coveted demographic because, you know, the only, like, most of the albums that sell are very female friendly still, you know, like, I just don't, I don't get it, you know.

Yeah. What would you bet tickets to your comedy shows? Oh, it's so hard to get them, David. It's, you had to get on a list. It's like you're on the list. You haven't even been to one yet. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to do that.

There was also a story about this concussion. There's a former wrestler's lawsuit that is just very slowly over the course of a couple years been making it sway through the system. I saw that a bunch of people got deposed to him. Yeah. Vincent and Triple H were deposed in a sort of surprised deposition. Like they didn't give them that much warning. Yeah.

This case is really hard to follow. I mean, at some point there's going to be, you know, I mean, people have written more intelligently about it than I can speak to it right now. But there were a lot of these former wrestler cases that, and some of them got thrown out. Billy Jack Haynes was like the, whatever, the name of record on one of them and his got tossed. And this is just, I think what's at stake here is that WW is like hiding information about concussion. I mean, it's basically like the NFL concussion scandal. Like you knew more than you said you knew.

And I don't know. Yeah, this is the gray area. I mean, because it's like, for a long time, no one knew about CTE. You know, it would be like, it would be like, it would be. be like, you know, prosecuting someone for being racist in the 40s. You mean everybody, you know? Yeah, we do that about old professional wrestlers on a semi-regular basis. Yeah. So I guess you got to wonder when they, when they found out. I mean, Vince has not had a great record with court cases, so I'm not sure how. No, and, you know, well, I mean, we'll see. His personality doesn't

necessarily lend itself really well to those situations either. So we can, we can, I mean, honestly, it's one of these is one of those situations. We're like, I hope the truth, comes out, you kind of just expect that the ending is going to be a sort of screw job, no wrestling correlation intended in one way or the other. Like it's just going to seem like they get to the wrong place. But I mean, it's crazy how much has changed because, you know, we were, you told me to watch a pay-per-view from like 11 years ago last night and just how many headshots were in that pay-per-view.

Oh, yeah. It's totally changed, you know. Yeah. Yeah. We watched one night. We watched the ECW one night stand, the second one from 2006. for this conversation we're going to have later about hardcore wrestling. And yeah, I mean, it was the level of just insane insanity on that car.

And it wasn't even, I mean, it's not like it was just like blood from start to finish. But when it happened, it was just like, yeah, really kind of hard to watch. Brutal, especially like, because one of the things that you would say always on your old show, you'd talk about like. It's called cheap. It still exists. Well, we don't want to acknowledge it like TNA. Yeah. I think it's okay.

I think those guys are still my friends. No, I think, like you had said before, it's, it is like watching it. It's really fun to watch certain people wrestle. It's really fun to watch like RVD get hit with a chair, but it's really not fun to watch Terry Funk get hit. Yeah. Like some people, you're just like, I don't want to see you guys. I don't want to see the cast of cocoon fight in hell in the cell. Oh, sure.

And it's weird to see Edge like bump around when you know that like his career was like ended not too long, you know, just a few. years after that because he is, you know, a generative neck condition. I mean, and you don't even know if one contributes to the other necessarily, but that's sort of what the CTE thing is all about. You know, I mean, you just don't, the correlation is always going to be a little bit, a little bit foggy. And, uh, and, you know, I just, I don't, I can't imagine this case is going to, like, break out any brand new information that's going to help our understanding. But, um, you know, if these guys are, what if a professional wrestling is the one that finally settles concussions? I mean, they, they, they made a smart move, like, from a

marketing standpoint or PR standpoint, they got out ahead of it before the NFL was, they just felt, I guess the NFL thought they couldn't do that, that they would have been giving away too much in their own court cases by saying it was a real thing. But, you know, WWE went from like pretending it, you know, this sort of thing was impossible. Like CT didn't exist to being like this donating massive amounts of money to the Legacy Foundation or Legacy Institute. They're listed in the deposition too, right? That foundation. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They're part of it. So, I mean, I'm sure I'll be talking more about that in coming weeks. Let's just jump to Raw this week.

Sure. It's been a couple of months since I've talked about an episode of Raw on a podcast. Are you excited? I'm excited, man. I've been gearing up for this. Also, like, the past few weeks of Raw have all sort of blurred together for me, though, because I don't, like, I haven't been speaking out loud. I mean, except of occasional, like, hobos on the street about, like, what,

what happened on Raw last night. You realize it wasn't a hobo, just Smith Hart? I'm not, yeah. So if I'm missing anything, just explain it to me or, you know, tell me that I'm crazy. But, all right, so the big going thing, the interest right now is the Roman Reins versus AJ Stiles feud. Which I thought, this was the first week for me, it seemed a little slow. Like, before this, I thought they were actually doing a lot of, almost like Shakespearean

subtle, like, turns in the sense that like, okay, well, well, he's going to hit him, but he's going to hesitate, but then end up hitting him because of something else someone else did. Yeah. And now it's almost kind of, I think they've kind of worked through as complex it can be now, and now they've just got to have a blow off match. I agree. I mean, there's something particular about, well, there's two competing interests in wrestling.

Neither of them are the actual thing that's happening on television, but one, I've said this before. So much of what happens on Raw is choreographed more for, like, the video package that they end up showing before the pay-per-view, than like what's actually happening. Yeah. But also it's, it's live, right? So if AJ sort of like, you know, grimaces and repeats a line,

you don't know if that was just sort of like a flub or if he meant to do it. If you were watching this on a movie screen somewhere, you would take it as high art or like as some sort of art and you would accept it for what it was and read into it, read in all the subtext and whatever. But I think you're right. And they've been kind of going around in circles with this, but it's in a weirdly fulfilling way.

It does feel like something real is playing out. on screen between the club, which is now, I guess, the official name for AJ and his buddies. I'm not, I don't know if I agree with that. I don't know, but whatever. And, and the Roman reigns and family. Why do they have to name it? That's my thing.

It's like, they already have the Baylor Club, right? They have T-shirts. The idea doesn't quite exist yet, but. So, like, when he joins, is it going to be the Baylor Club Club? Like, that's what I'm, like, can't they? Couldn't they have just saved? that until he joined it. Yeah. And also, I mean, we didn't really get the, we're still messing around with the idea

that they're not aligned. They're just off-screen friends who are intersecting in the ring occasionally. I got to say, their outfits are pretty rough. They have to do something. The white sleeve, the, yeah, it looks like Power Ranger villains. Like, it's pretty rough. And Roman Rains' outfit, it's like the factions that are fighting have the most, like, 90s outfits that I've ever. It's like Max Moon-esque sort of outfits. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, in Roman Raines and, I mean, you also get that sort of like indie wrestling vibe

where there's just way too many clothes being worn. Like, what are we covering up with all these guys sort of? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's definitely a weird look. But anyway, I mean, but, you know, Gallows and Anderson have been really great so far. I mean, it's like that the, yeah, it's good that the Uso's are doing something besides just being generic faces, you know, so that's nice. This is, I think, they're ideal.

usage in a lot of ways. I mean, say what you will about Roman Reins and as champion or whatever, but like, they're much cooler as, like, friends and enforcers and everything else than... Well, Roman Range is so much more interesting when you don't have Stephanie or Triple H involved them, because the whole dynamic leading up to that WrestleMania was like this one guy against the machine, but everyone knew he was part of the machine, so no one bought it. So now that he's with the Uso's, you're at least like, okay, well, this is like a family. I can buy this.

Yeah. I buy this character at least. Yeah. And the feud with AJ Styles definitely has a lot of like these, you know, the real, you know, the real world connotation too. Because AJ is getting all these cheers that Roman should have been getting. Right. At least on televised things. I mean, Romans, you know, very popular as far as merch sales and, you know, headlining live, you know, house show.

It's that kind of stuff goes. Yeah. And he definitely gets his fair share of cheers. But, but yeah, I mean, it's nice to see them feuding in a sort of, in a sort of real way. And they're feuding, while not a hardcore way so far. I mean, we'll see what happens on Sunday. It seemed like a very realistic battle. The Romerade still does remind me of like every generic browser's porn star.

I've never seen in my time. He has that look. Well, you know, I remember people making that joke about Batista, like how eight years ago or however long it was. I mean, I think that that's kind of, that's Vince McMahon's, you know, aesthetic. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I think, you know, at one point. AJ kind of felt like he was turning heel a little bit.

You know, he said, the quote was, is this not the new era of the WWE, which I don't know if that's also a branding thing that I just missed being happy. I hate the new era. Because they did that in the, it always just seems like a cry for help because the last time they did that, like, the new generation, it was right after Hogan left.

And it's like, Diesel, you know, like John Pierre Lafitte. Yeah, it's like we're like totally rebooting, but we want to make it sound like a good, thing instead of like, you know, we're just replacing the cast with a bunch of people you've never heard of or something. Exactly. And they're also repeated. Speaking of like, you know, things we've heard before, they're totally, they're like, Michael Cole is very loudly pulling the Love them or Hatham, or Hadeem, or Hattem stick with, uh, with, with, you know, the Sina

stick with, with Roman Reims. They push that. Whenever they, it's like the, you know, this guy's crazy for Ambrose. When they find one thing they think works, it's just they, they beat it until it's a bloody pulp, you know. I love it that they do it. They'd said it, and they, I think it was big cast, it's a little bit of the new era and then made an Urkel joke. It was like, the weird. You made a joke.

Like, it's like, this is so new. Yeah, baby. You know, like you're just some awesome power. We talk a lot about, you know, how wrestlers have too, like, their schedule is too hard. They're out there on the road too much. They're busting their bodies up. But really, I think that the, the takeaway from what you just said is, they need more days off so they can, like, watch television and get, like, immerse themselves in contemporary

pop culture. I think that'd be good for everybody under the employee of WWE. We'll come back to these guys when we talk to pay-per-view, but the other big, I mean, the other really cool segment from Raw was the four-way IC title thing where it started off as a, you know, one-on-one, right, and then quickly

evolved into a mixed tag. It was cool to see Sammy Zane and Kevin Owens on the same team, despite the fact that they weren't getting along. He's so great. Kevin Owens? I mean, they both are, but Kevin Owens, it's like, he's so good, It really is like if a snarky wrestling fan became a wrestler

That does have that feeling of like he just says exactly what you want to hear Yeah, you know Like tells the story you want to watch Yeah, he's exactly the wrestler that we all think we would be Although not like one zero of us could pull it off to the extent that he's pulled it off The you know it's funny because the crowd is so into him that it actually makes the announced team better Like because they're like getting into the crowd as you want like during the course I mean, during the course of that match, they acknowledged how into the crowd.

It was a weird thing. The crowd's really into Kevin Owens. But then, like, the announcers were just kind of caught up in it. It was a very strange thing that you don't hear that much because they're very, very, they're very state or they're very, like, sticking to the script, sort of. And he's one of the few guys who, like, like, when he went to, when he had that match where he dropped the NXT title in Japan, where people cheered him. Um, where people, like, threw the flowers away and said, I hate your stupid country. And then immediately started booed people started booing him again. Like he's one of those guys who can at least for a moment flip you.

Yeah, I mean, it's the sort of, I mean, it's the thing we seen before with The Rock and we saw with Paul Heyman where people, on some level, it's a, it's a respectful boo. Like, oh, like you kind of get, you kind of get jolted back into the, into the rest, like the old school wrestling mark where you're like, yes, we will boo. Sorry, I forgot. But like, but, yeah, but he's actually a much pure heel than the Rock, you know, I mean, like, when the Rock was a heel, it was still a lot of the sort of carny stuff where he's just like, you know, it was a sort of jokey heel. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I think that that feud is really great. And one of my favorite things that came out of that match on Monday was the Mizz getting You Can't Russell chants, which I actually think is a step in the right direction for the Miz.

Just the fact that crowds are responding to him enough to chant, you can't wrestle. I mean, that chant could have been his highest point in five years or something. He's in one of those weird positions where if you don't give him anything and you see him talk, then you're like, oh, this guy could be doing so much more. but as soon as you give him something, people are like, why does he have this? Yeah. He's in this like he's not, you know, he's just, he just, it just doesn't seem like it fits no matter where he's at.

Yeah. It's, it's always been a weird thing for him. And it's, it's going to continue to be that way. I mean, I think he's, I don't, I mean, obviously when he was the champion, he was just sort of shotgun in that position and you can obviously have a million, I mean, take exception to that a million different ways. But he definitely had more utility as a champion than he does as sort of, just sort of floundering on the midcar.

right yeah um and i think that because when w w u.g gives you a chance to say what is he doing then then that answer that question sort of answers itself you know i mean it's like he's not really doing anything and i don't know why he's there although the miss is like he's really great in a lot of ways he's a really really compelling talker he's the most one of the most hateable guys on the roster and uh and you know with marie spack i mean i think that there's i think that there's you know a lot more that they can mind there and he's not a bad yeah he's not he's not a bad wrestler he does he does he does have that thing I think Brandon Stroud said it a million years ago

that like he's one of those guys that he looks like he's playing a professional wrestler like he looks like he's trying like he's sort of a sort of a Panamae aspect to his in ring stuff and whatever he was like a Hollywood actor trained really hard to become a wrestler sure yeah and he sort of has that body too

where it doesn't quite match the other like that anyway I won't get too much into like my body critique on the show it's the next 45 minutes we should get off for Rob but I guess the other other cool things for the second time in recent memory the women's contract signing was the main event of the of the of the of I don't know if was a go home show last time but um that was kind of cool and and that natalia was was one of the two is it is like I don't know it just sort of seems like they're uh you know that they're

that they are really committing to this and maybe maybe it's artificial maybe it's going to be short lived but it's but the the women's division is has been consistently one of the most entertaining parts of the show for a while and w you really see at least you know at least maybe it's another PR thing but they see the value in putting these women, you know, front and center. Yeah, I mean, I love, you know, obviously I love Flair of Charlotte. I love to tell you. I did feel like it felt like almost like a segment that more benefited

than McMahon storyline than it did because you have Stephanie being really nice to Shane for a couple weeks. And now you see the first crack, which is her slapping the beloved Rick Flair in his hometown. Yeah. I know he's playing a heel, but no matter what, he's going to be a face in that town. So that Rick Flair bump, the bump that he took off of that slap might have been the first, like, comically bad bump in Rick Flair's career. I mean, it's like he's been so good for so long, but it was hilarious. So they don't really have any complaint.

I mean, he was sort of the way he was like reacting in slow motion and then sort of looking back to make sure he didn't fall on his daughter and like clip her ankle and like, oh my God. But it was great. I mean, I just, I love that they're finding ways to use Rick without making, without it being like demeaning to Charlotte's character. I'm sure they're people that disagree. but like she's still the star, you know, and Rick is sort of just like the corny manager at this point. But the, do you think where, you mean, you mentioned Steph,

do you think that this is heading eventually to like a Charlotte Stephanie match? No, I think they're setting up. I mean, it just seems like, I mean, this is all from the dirt sheets, but it seems like they're setting up Shane and Triple H again, which would be a smackdown in 99, but, you know, it seems like it's going to be like a main event at SummerSlam or at least that's what they're going for.

right? Why would they put them together? It doesn't make any sense to put them together like this unless they're going to

break them apart. It's the old wrestling thing. Yeah, no, of course. That totally makes sense. I still, at some point I can just see myself leading up to their SummerSlam match

if that's what happens, asking why Shane is wrestling in a hockey jersey when he's like the third best built guy on the roster as like a 45-year-old man was amazing. His fashion deserves its own column. Like he's,

he's he's uh he's trying some things out like it's it's it's pretty interesting um let's get out or ross are do you what do you have anything to say about the shining stars um i don't know i don't understand it's like now they're so afraid of being racist that i think they most generic it just feels like a look it feels like a six graders report on porto rico is wrestling that's what it felt like let's have the most generic Puerto rican combo yeah like they're just all island people. They're all that. They're dealing with Zika right now.

They're real people there. They've got their own bullshit too. You know? Oh, man. I certainly felt like when they were walking to the ring and saying the island was their, I mean, the ring was their island and all that kind of stuff. Like it was corny and it seems so bad. But it felt like an NXT gimmick that was called up without any retooling sort of.

And this might be like a hot take, but I actually think that the Shiding Stars would just be really over an NXT if they were two guys you'd never heard of. and ran this exact same gimmick down there for a couple of months. Oh, good American Ultra. I mean, that's like the most throwback gimmick ever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They did, it's also weird to see their finishing move is so violent

because I just remember that from ECW, Total Annihilation or whatever. Yeah, of course. And I'm like, it's just such an amazing, violent, awesome, like move. And then to have these guys who are just kind of generic do it, you're like, this doesn't make any sense for their personality. I just want, I've just missed somebody yelling, total annihilation, you know what it happens. Yeah, I think we. We all, we all, there's some things that Joey Stiles did really well.

I was just like, like going into that zone and screaming the names of moves really loudly, I think. You go back and you watch it and it's just so canned and corny, but it worked so well to like just make your blood boil. You know, I mean, you're like to really get you going on it. All right, man. Well, you talked about, you talked about ECW. We were just talking about the great Joey Stiles. And Extreme Rules is coming up this Sunday, but before we get into the pay-per-view, I told you I wanted to talk about just, sort of hardcore wrestling and where you know what its place is in in wb right now like it's come a long

way i wrote about eccw after it had you know shuttered shuttered itself shuttered its windows whatever from deads on deadspin years ago um it's kind of talking about how hardcore wrestling was like necessary for professional wrestling at that moment in eccw in particular you know it had gotten really silly at wf wwee it was just sort of cornball thing that was really really easy for casual fans or non-fans to make fun of. And ECW, you know, love it or hate it, just sort of redeemed the whole, the whole wrestling world by making it real again. And so, you know, in the way that, like, when our parents were watching territorial

wrestling and, like, when I was growing up, watching just, like, some random fat dude come out and punch Jerry Lawler in the face in, like, the, in, like, the CWA studio. And you're like, oh, man, that's real. Like, they look like they're fighting in a parking lot. Like, that's a real thing. Yeah. But I don't know. And then, you know,

WWE at this point has totally co-opted it. You know, the fact that it's its own pay-per-view and very rarely anywhere else, except for cage matches and stuff like that is, is, uh, I don't know, man. I mean,

do you, like, do you get, you get excited when you hear they're going to, there's going to be an extreme rules match or a chair? No, I think it's the same complaint most wrestling fans have where once you, uh, you know,

it's like hell in the cell, you know, once you, there's no rate, if you're just having a gimmick match for the sake of gimmick match, then it loses its meaning. You know, like, there's no reason that, like, really, there's not a reason A.J. Stiles and Roman Rane should be an extreme rules match.

If you really, like, look at it. Sure. You know, like, they have, in their feud, they haven't earned that yet. And even if, Jericho, Ambrose, maybe, but. Even, and even if A.J. Stiles and Roman Rains had earned it, it sort of, it's sort of made less significant by the fact that, like, there's all these other matches on the card that are also engaging in these stipulate. It just seems, it's, I mean, it doesn't seem.

forced. It is forced. That's the whole premise of the thing. But yeah, I mean, there's also this aspect of this sort of indie movement being co-opted by the mainstream, right? I mean, like, whatever your favorite, like, indie music scene, like, by the time that your favorite indie band makes it onto a major label and is on all the radio stations, you necessarily, it's not the same thing. Yeah, Smashy. Bobkins are doing the Batman and Robin soundtrack.

Exactly. And even if it is the same thing, then you still are mad because it's like everybody's into what used to be your favorite thing. That was my, yeah, that was my identity. And yet wrestling fans still clamor for blood at every turn. It's gotten to the other event. Can we at least just, if someone bleeds, we don't have to stitch them up? Can we just, like, not stop the match? Oh, yeah.

Just at least give us that. Yeah. Yeah, or just let them bleed for a few minutes for like 30 seconds. So there's like blood around or something. Right, exactly. Well, we went back and watched, this is not, this is not by no definition classic, you know, ECW. But we went back and watched ECW one night stand, oh six. because I thought it was really interesting

because they did a lot of real callbacks to what made ECW ECW, and then the main event was John Cena versus RVD in this sort of establishment versus underground championship match. I don't know, I think that there's, I think that there's a lot of interesting things

about that show. We watch it from the beginning and Paul Heyman comes out in, you know, leather, long leather coat and baseball cap with the ponies. ponytail and you kind of, it's hilarious because physically he is current Paul Heyman, like under all of that, but he's just wearing this silly costume to evoke where, you know, like the,

the Pauley Dangerously or Paul Heyman of the early ECW heyday. And just, but hearing him cut this promo, because he's obviously so good at it, I guess part of my, I, part of me, my, I had this question that like is part of the reason that we love hardcore and ECW so much just because Paul Heyman told us to. I don't know. Paul Heyman is like, he could have been a senator, you know? Like, he's one of these guys. He could have been an, he probably could have been an Oscar winning actor.

I mean, he could have done a lot because he's one of those guys. He's still considered ECW. And you talk to a lot of, you watch those ECW documentaries, either the ones that are produced by W.B. Or the independent ones. Yeah. And a lot of it is them rightfully so blaming Paul Haman for the discretion of ECW. And then Paul Haman is able to be like, well, no, W. WWE's destroying it, but then you actually look at the facts.

You're like, no, you lost all that money, but somehow he's the guy who's like, he's able to, like, just through one promo convince you that he's the underground dude. And he's the one who's fighting against the establishment. Well, and going back to, like, the indie band, like, parallel, it almost makes him cooler for the fact that he, like, squandered all this money and put them out of business, right? I mean, it's like, we all love the rock stars who drink themselves to death more than the ones that actually, like, make it big. Are those the ones that feel more legit? There's a certain legitimacy that comes with like flaming out. So like crazy. So we're now with shoot interviews.

We know the roadies that the rock star put out of business and it's not as fun. Yeah. You know, when they talk about the money being gone. Oh, yeah. No, that stuff's all really sad. But, you know, I mean, I don't, it'd be interesting. It's always a great counterfactual. Like, what if ECW it's found a way to continue?

What if some angel investor had come in and kept it afloat? I mean, I think that Triple H said this when I interviewed him years ago. and I somewhat agree with it that like ECW is great in your memory. It's great in theory. If you go back and watch full episodes of the TV show or whatever, it's not as great. You know, there's a lot of weird stuff. And One Nightstand 2006 was actually a good example of that. I mean, like the show starts with the Taz Jerry Lawler match, which is basically just like a comedy, like get the crowd going.

It lasted one second kind of get your rocks off sort of match. It felt like a good way to start a live event rather than a way to. to start a pay-per-view. Yeah, I mean, but I think, and I think that's really indicative of what that show was and what ECW was in a lot of ways. You know, the TV shows were kind of pasted together live shows and with weird backstage segments, like, stuck in there. I mean, the ECW legends that they brought back, you know, Bals Mahoney versus Masada Tanaka

and Sabu was there against Ray Mysterio, who was obviously a big WWE star at the time. Yeah. And then there was the full-blooded Italians. were in there. I mean, that stuff just felt so, at least in retrospect, just kind of a lot of it felt really just insignificant. Well, that full-blooded, the one thing I found really significant, though, about the full-blooded Italians versus Tijiri, I think it's super crazy, right?

Yeah. It was just big show coming at the end and, like, clearing house. And it just seemed like almost like a metaphor for what's going to happen to that company. That's great. WWE is just erasing your history, you know, at the end of it, big show's statement. And our WWE guys stands tall and everyone else is decimated. The funny thing that you see throughout the course of the match is that at the time, they're running this ECW invasion angle, you know,

before they launched the new ECW TV show. And like Kurt Engel is team ECW. And a big show like makes a turn on WWE and becomes ECW. And again, this is the, my indie band is making it big fan base where the fan base is largely WWE fans who are like, loving, who are chanting along as if they're ECW fans. Yeah. But the fans wholeheartedly embraced Kurt Engel and Big Show. You know, there's like, there's no distinction between the cheers that Sabu got and the

cheers that Kurt Engel got. All Kurt Engel had to do to get those cheers to say like, oh, yeah, I'm Team ECW. Well, that's because at the time, too, I was a huge ECW fan. And when I came, when I came back, I was like so hopeful. And that was the moment, like, that was pitch hate John Cena time. You know, like, those peak, sorry, peak hate John Cena time, where everyone was just like, just any alternative. Yeah, well, I mean, but we'll talk about that title match, but first, I mean, there was the, the Foley, the Mick Foley, Edge, and Lita versus Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer, a match that was gross.

Some stuff, no, I mean, like, that's the thing that I thought, too, where I was like, like, basically Edge, uh, molesting, Bulah, whatever name is at the end of it, uh, and the, Boilogutty, uh, like, how did he say your name of Bula? Bula, thank you. And he's like, humping her while, I'm like, this is gross. Yeah, that was a really weird

edge and lead a, like, X-rated moment in their, in their careers. But, but yeah, and,

and, I mean, you were talking about, you were talking about Terry Funk, and he just got absolutely just bloody, you know,

to a pulp in that match, which is always sort of weird to see. I mean, when you're watching, like, just watching it on the WWE network, it's just like,

I can't believe this is still here. Like, it's very strong. I mean, it's great for what it is. I'm not saying they should take it off. Terry Bung is one of my favorites of all time. Mine too.

But when he was fighting in Japanese death magists, he was still old and it was fun. You know what I mean? We're like first years at ECW. He was still the old guy and it was really fun. But there's a point where it's just like becomes, oh, this is a fun grizzled old veteran verse, oh, I'm afraid of this guy's for this guy's life. And what's the line that you cross to get to the other part of it? Yeah, that's really, it's a good point because it's not, like, he had a lot of these guys,

they kept wrestling for a while after. But for the purposes of this show, they were. trotted out as just sort of like reunion tour right like we're just going to bring these guys back out here and like we're going to do the things that we're going to pop the crowd i mean it's basically like an ECW version of stone cold coming out at wrestlemania and stunning you know whoever you know i mean just like getting just popping the crowd that's stone gold's not going to wrestle a match but he's going to stun a guy and drink some beers and whatever the difference is that in this case terry funk just like gets is like bleeding like a stuck pig which is if that is like you know the

special move that you're known for to pop the crowd. It's not a great special move. Hepatitis is not a good special move. Did you, throughout the whole pay-per-view, did you, like, whenever they played the EC, like, didn't you think the Wyatts were, oh, yeah? Because they, like, the old ECW, I guess, sound effects was the same thing, the same sound effect they used whenever the Wyatts appear. So the whole time, I was like, oh, my God, is Luke Harper here every time that happened.

Yeah, the, uh, Terry Funk was, I guess, is like, one of the most famous ECW matches ever was his match against Sabu and born to be Wired 97 where they had a death match like a Japanese-style death match that was just absolutely gross and it basically ends with them so tangled up in barbed wire

that neither of them can move I mean it's just like it sounds like I'm like overstating it I've seen that match like it's just at the end of the match people have to come out with like wire cutters and just extract them and it's disgusting

yeah yeah I mean it's not yeah I mean it's always I always I keep saying hard to watch It's a good match. It's really interesting, but it's it's, that's also when Sabu had like a like a 12 inch gash in his bicep and just taped it shut like and he still has that giant scar. You know, I mean, just it's crazy. Sabu is like one of my favorites just because he is the he is the guy. Like I think like we're like hearing him to talk is Jericho or I forget where it was, but he doesn't know like he's like yeah, I don't know how to talk. So I just have to put my body through a lot of pain. Yeah. That's like what he's. I've also always loved him because he just sort of looks like your friend's. dad. He would be wearing like a short sleeve button down on a clip on tie and working at like a, you know, Office Depot or something, except for the fact that he just decided to be a pro wrestler and was incredibly good at it. Oh, so good. But yeah, and before we get up, before we get to get away from that match, there was also, we also got to reference Bula's famous match against

Bill Alfonso, which was also back in 97 where she just bled him like a stuck pig. Yeah. The rumor is that he was supposed to be his farewell, like he was just getting fired, but he bled so much and every, every, all the boys just, like, loved him after that and he stayed employed. But, yeah, it's, that's, that's, that's, that's the kind of weird world, parallel universe of ECW, where you can have a non-match that is somehow more compelling than a real match. I mean, it speaks to what made them so great. And at the time, it was really, really amazing and important for wrestling, but it was, uh, it was, you know, it's, it's a lot to go back and watch now.

Yeah, I mean, I'm glad I quit drinking, but if I could go back and, like, with, like, like, I'm would love to go back and go to like an ECW event in like Philly or Hammerstein Ballroom. Oh yeah. And just, you know, because that, I mean, that must have been so crazy. It was just like half like half like Woodstock, half gathering of the juggalo's. Yeah. And then like, oh my God, it would have been great. There's nothing.

Yeah. I mean, there's not, it's a very singular wrestling experience or it seems like one. I wasn't there. But like I would love to go back and do that too. But that's definitely one of those promotions you couldn't explain to your girl. friend. You know, like, you couldn't go there. Yeah.

It wasn't like PWG where there's a little bit of like an open like hipster aspect to it or whatever. Yeah. It's really strange. It's like these are all. That's another thing watching the event that I thought was they always make reference on these, on these shoot interviews or anything else. And by the way, watch RVD shoot interviews because his impersonation of Sean Michaels is the greatest Sean Michael's impersonation.

He does the eye right. It's amazing. But like what like that, like the East. There is an element of the ECW audience. Like half of them went to Ring of Honor, but the other half who didn't graduate high school and are truck drivers, they must have disappeared.

They're not around anymore because some of those, and it's probably good because some of those chants are like, you guys are animals. Yeah. Animals. Yeah, it was really rough. And, I mean, it got really rough. That was, I mean, it was the sort of, like,

birth of the fans are an equal part because we can get together and chant. We're like, we're like the third man in the ring because, like, you can't stop us, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, there's, I've said this before, but there's nothing, there's nothing better than, like, the seamless transition from, like, holy shit

where you're just reacting to the match to can't see shit where you're basically stage directing. Like, the whole crowd is just, like, you're wrestling in a really inappropriate place right now. Like, 90% of us can't see what's going on. You're back in an aisle. You're going to, you know, you're going backstage. I thought that was, that's always, like, been the funniest thing to me.

But what do you think about Rob, Rob Van Damme versus John Cena for the title with this like crazy unnecessarily schmasey ending well i love i i forgot that like cina was still had the mark walberg accent at that point they were doing promos in the back and you really you forget how much his voice has changed yeah that was my first thought he's evolved he's evolved more than you think well it was kind of cool because this is like the first time like maybe and cina was probably just working the audience but you did feel like he was legitimately pissed at times and he was working real heel. It wasn't like, like, hey, I'm a heel, wink, wink.

Yeah. Like, he was like legitimately, like, it was, it was interesting to watch his character work in that match. Yeah. Because it was like the first time he was like, hey, I'm going to play this multi-layered sort of character. Totally true. I mean, I think I remember people saying at the time that he was surprised by the response

that he got. You know, I mean, he was a pretty pure baby face to that point. And, and yeah, I mean, and was very, very over with the mainstream WWE crowd. I mean, it wasn't, you know, we, we all forget how popular he was after all these years of Sina Sucks chance or, you know, whatever. But he's, yeah, it was interesting to see him getting that sort of treatment. Although it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

I mean, it didn't feel like he was, he wasn't getting significantly, a significantly worse reaction than like Randy Orton got. You know, I think it was just you're an outsider. We're going to give you the, we're going to give you the shit and we're going to move on. And also, like, Sina made, like, it wasn't RVD who gave them the most fun that. night it was Sina. When Sina was like throwing that shirt and they were throwing it back. That was the most fun that crowd had.

They had just as much fun doing that as they did when RVD won. You know, so like there is a begrudging respect of like, you're going to make me happy that you're pissing me off so much. I mean, I think it was definitely as a fan back then, it was an absolute shock that RVD won, right? I mean, it was despite the fact that you look back at it now, it seems like, oh, it's an ECW event. They're setting up this ECW TV show. it all makes total sense.

I mean, I was, if I were, if I had a wrestling podcast back then, making pay-per-view predictions, I would have said 100% John Cena wins, but they'll figure out a way to make RVD look good and make the fans a little bit happy. They'll, you know, he'll hit a, he'll hit the Van Terminator after the match. He'll do something, you know, and it was, it was crazy that they went that way. Also, what did you, do you, what did you think about the ending? I mean, I thought it was, you know, I actually thought it was, I thought it was booked well because it's like, you,

It was booked well to it. It's kind of sad when you, when you figure out, like, right afterwards, RVD lost both titles within a month. Yeah. Right after that happened. And it was basically just to build an edge Sina program again, which, you know, whatever to that. But then he lost the ECW title, like, big show. Yeah.

From a screw job. Was that, like, a marijuana arrest situation? Was there a reason why he dropped it? I think it was a marijuana. And I don't think he was getting along with anybody in the back. At least that's what he said. Yeah. With, like, shoot interviews.

He was like, not a, yeah. He's not a get-along type of guy. It doesn't seem like, which is funny because he's got this pothead persona. Yeah. But,

you know, I don't think he's... I'm going to go watch the shoot interview as soon as we're done doing this. There's some good ones. But yeah, it was really cool. I mean, the weird,

the screw joby ending was weird that, I mean, that Haman had to come out and make the count because the referee had been knocked out because then the next night on whatever was the next night. Was it raw?

Yeah, it was raw the next night. That he came out and said, and just said, like, oh no, Vince is respecting the decision. You know, like, it seemed like there was some way they could have booked it so that, like, it would have seemed legit. I feel like fans there didn't get the full feeling of, of, although they did get to cheer

for Paul Hammond at the end of the show, which made everybody very happy. Yeah. But now that I'm saying that, like, imagine if that, if Triple H played that Paul Heyman role at, like, a big NxtE show and came out and, like, counted one, two, three for a for a title change. Like, everybody would just be shitting on Triple H so hard for booking himself into the main event. Triple H really is like he is the most, like, I can't win no matter what, because even when he's like, I'm going to put somebody over and be the bad guy, then they cheer for him.

It's like the weirdest, he can't be. The good guy he wants to be. He can't be the bad guy he wants to be. No. That's sort of like the state of wrestling in 2016 in a microcosm, though. It's just like, nothing. I mean, sometimes things work for a couple of months, but at some point it's going to go off the rails, whether you like it or not. Seven hours a week.

Yeah. You got to just be ready for it. So, I mean, we're going to transition into extreme rules, the pay-per-view that's coming up. You know, I think that watching that main event, like when Edge came in and then the, I mean, the Schma's finish or whatever, it was nothing specific to WWE. But Edge running in was like you were talking about the big show earlier. It was like, oh, yeah, this is just a WWE storyline. And we're just appropriating this content or this style right after. I mean, this was the second one night stand.

And then the year after that, I guess, is when they launched extreme rules and made, for the first extreme rules, I think they were clear that, like, this is, we're doing this instead of one night saying it's the same thing, different name. Yeah. I mean, not ECW stars coming back, but this is our hardcore night. And then, since then, they've sort of like distanced themselves from ECW and all that kind of stuff for, you know, a variety of reasons. But, I mean, there is a direct lineage from ECW to this pay-per-view we have on Sunday. And it's just sort of weird to see that it's like just kind of how How unexciting it is I mean if they like you were saying before

If there were one match if one match had earned You know we hate each other so so much we're gonna hit each other with brass knuckles for 30 minutes Like that's cool but it's like you know it's like you know when you have a Democratic or a publican convention And they have protest zones You know it like kind of takes the steam out of the protest Yeah, if you like all right all right well this is our carefully planned air where you're allowed to be mad at. The free speech zone, which is just like, it's all just like it's double speak.

Yeah, that's what Extreme Rules feels like. It feels like the free speech zone. And I don't get it, but, you know, I mean, they have to have more pay-per-views. They have to have more. You have to have some hook to market it on every time, but it's, you know, market ahead of time. Yeah. To Slim Jim or whoever their advertiser is that's paying one-seventh, what they would pay the UFC. What would you pay, what event would you rather see go?

Extreme rules or hell and a cell? Or TLC? Um, I mean, they're all, I would, I would just throw them all out. But like, I feel like TLC has insinuated itself as sort of the fourth major pay-per-view. Like Survivor series is out and TLC is in. No, that's money in the bank, right? Money in the bank is kind of like the fourth bank. Then there's TLC.

But I think TLC is legit. I mean, I feel like, even though, like, if you have one thing a year, if that's, that's like a hardcore style pay-per-view or anything can go, then that actually could be, because, come a storyline where like people are trying to infudes before TLC comes around you know whatever like we know this is happening like yeah I'd rather feud with Zach Ryder this month you know let me get out of here but um but yeah I mean it's just it's it's too much and I mean I've I've been saying forever that they should just have like you know four or five major pay per views that have names and the rest should just be WWU 150 or whatever just make it and then have the have the main event or have whatever even if it's not a title match have a big match carry the thing have you know Dean Ambrose versus

Jericho's face is really big on the poster and just say like, you know, WW150 Jericho Ambrose, whatever, you know, like make it seem like a real thing. That's great. Like in your house. Yeah, just don't call it a thing. Don't call it in your house and you'll be fine. You know.

That was the only reason I was here was to try to like bring back in your house. You just have like three pages of in your house material right in front of it. It is a little bit on the nose that when they started in your house, the big goal was like, oh, even you wrestling fans could maybe own a house. You dirty animals

One day Yeah I mean that's why we're not getting We're not getting fancy advertisers You know They're just like they know They're all homeless That's it

Yeah well it was the worst house ever It was just like some like Beach House And Orlando And it was like a two year lease or something Like you didn't really get the house It was like what like Brutus the Barber Beef Cave Lost in a settlement And then they're just like yeah use this

Oh man The bathroom mirrors are all broken up Don't worry about it All right, from the extreme days of ECW to this Sunday, WWE's Extreme Rules, Paperview. Yeah, I couldn't get my excitement level up too high for that. Let's run through the card and make some picks. If you have any thoughts on any of these fudes that we haven't already covered,

by all means, bring them in. Do you care about Dahl Ziegler versus Baron Corbyn? You know, a friend of mine, give him a shout out, Diego, who also works at Not Safe. he brought up the fact that Baron Corbyn is like a real which is the weirdest shad at just giving someone their first name um you can't go Rafferty I believe uh I may have mispronance his name now I feel like a dick but I I feel like at least Baron Corby brought up this is a good

heel yeah so I mean he is a legit heel he hates he hates the fans and wrestling I mean that's the point this guy had made to me and so do I care I don't know I I mean, I don't, I would like to watch it. I'm not like, ugh, but it's also not like a reason I'm tuning in. I think, yeah, I think that the feud is actually, for, it's a small thing, but they've done an okay job with it. It's stretched out maybe a little bit too long, but the, but the, yeah, I think that I have this, my, my biggest hang up with Baron Corbin is not what I thought it would be when I

I had to watch him in NXT that I was worried that he wasn't good enough or he wasn't, he wasn't going to quite get there. I now have this sort of like meta-level discomfort watching him that I think that WW is going to mess it up. Or like they're not like they haven't figured out how to make this career work. And we're going to have to just watch it sort of fail in slow motion over the course of the next three years or something. Yeah. They don't know how to.

But there's no way to make that guy. There's something about having a receding hairline and having a lot of hair. Like he's got the he's got both which is like the most heelish thing ever. I don't know why. It's a very weird look. And I get, like I've, what of my, as a bald man, one of my like never ending pet peeves, that WW, you know, they have like Dr. James Andrews under, you know, like, they can call the best surgeon in the country and every time a wrestler blows out his knee, and yet they don't have just

like Tom Brady's hair transplant guy on speed dial, you know, there's like so many of these, there's like five wrestlers who were like going bald in front of our eyes, and it's just like, we can't, it's terrible. It makes me sad, you know. Just let a go. Yeah. Let it, yeah. And the option, the other option is join, uh, Cizaro and myself on the, on the beautiful and bold

into the spectrum. Zazaro Zazaro's like, I love Zazaro, but I don't know what I feel about that magic mic strip away

James Bond suit thing in the beginning of it. That whole thing is really weird and it just smacks of them giving him a new gimmick. Remember,

when he debuted, it was like every three weeks. It was like, now he wears a beret, now he wears a sunglasses, now he has a different coat than he has.

Now he speaks a lot of languages, you know, like it was all... Just like make him the, I mean, make him the Benoit of art

without, you know, the horrible history. But like, he's just, a really good wrestler. Yeah. That can be his gimmick. Well, they do that in the ring, and that's when he's most over.

No one cares how he comes to the ring. It's just all sort of silly. Although, dude does look good in a suit, and I kind of like, you know, it's growing on me a little bit. It seemed really corny at the beginning. So, you know, I don't even know. I agree with you. It's just, it's too much, but I don't hate it as much as I thought I would. The New Day versus the Vod villains.

Do you have, do you, any thoughts on that? Let me see. It's very hard. it's very hard for wrestling to put up something legitimately funny not just like wrestling funny where you're like this is ridiculous this is coming from a professional comedian but I will say the Kobe Kingston going back to 2009 Coffey Kingston through the time machine was like legit hilarious

I'm like oh that that's like I can't you know like you get so surprised when you're like oh this isn't the rock just you know telling some it is this is like legit like self-referential and really clever And a lot of, I mean, to make the bigger point, it's something like structural about pro wrestling, right? I mean, it's not like that wrestling is just full of unfunny people. I mean, we both know very funny people who've written for WWE. Absolutely.

You know, we both talk to Ray. Trees O'Neil. Yeah, for WCW or WV. Yeah, and, and, you know, I've talked to a million wrestlers who were like legitimately funny people, but just the way it conveys from the ring through the cameras to where you are at home, it's just like, it's difficult to be funny in the way that we all normally experience like laugh out loud humor or whatever. I think like

what I've experienced is like it's weird because the ones that are funny in wrestling are actually not funny like in real life but like people who weren't like I think Batiste is really funny as like a comedic actor and he was never really that funny as a wrestler up until his last run when he would do

some stuff as a heel that was pretty funny but then he ends up like figuring it out comedically you know I guess because he took it so seriously. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, you, you, I mean, I think part of it is being able to play heel and being in the modern era, you can sort of be a little bit funny. But I think part of it's also getting out and looking back in and saying and like, just being self-aware in a level that

you could never be when you spend, you know, years and years on the road five days a week, just performing in front of crowds. You can understand why John Cena got a little bit pissy when fans started booing him because he's just like, no, wait, I'm doing this job the same way I used to be doing it. Like, how is, you know, like, I'm a professional wrestler. This is what's supposed to, I'm supposed to get cheers. Like, this is crazy. But you take a step away.

And maybe John Cena, you know, maybe his forays into Hollywood will help him too. But I think if you take a deep breath and you come back, you can just be like, oh yeah, this is sort of, this is just a put on. Let me just like, I can acknowledge this. Isn't it weird that they seem like they're definitely building up more for Sina's return to Raw than anything on Extreme Rules? there were like three packages there on Monday night and I actually

he's coming back and I'm looking forward to that more too I mean I just moved to Los Angeles so I think people listening here might know this but I don't even have cable or anything so I watched it on Hulu and those packages were in the Hulu plus like there I think there were at least two and maybe three on the Hulu presentation

which is amazing because they have like they cut it down to 90 minutes right so there were whole segments that didn't make the Golden Truth thing didn't make the Hulu show I mean there There were a number of... The Becky Lynch match didn't make it. There was a, like, no joke, like, three-minute golden truth package.

Really? Waiting up to the match. It was crazy. I was like, is this really happening right now? That's nuts. They, like, they built it up, like, it was this huge storyline that we've all been, like, like, hook, like, you know, glued to the TV for, you know. That's, it's, uh, at least they're giving, at least they're giving those guys some screen time.

And actually taking these, like, kind of mid-level or sub-mid-level feud seriously, because, like, what? I wish that they just, like, like, do the obvious story with those two. It's like, oh, they're old veterans who lose a lot. Why can't that be? Why can't they just be

the mid-card version of the expendables? Exactly. Why do we have to like, do this goofy comedy thing with them? Yeah, just finding ways to get on the television. Yeah,

exactly. I think that's why the Cody Rhodes, a few, they're the brothers or whatever. That worked so well. Yeah, that's totally true. Dust to dust.

Well, so there's, we're still talking tag teams, but do you think, I mean, are the vaude villains? I'm excited. I mean,

I think they're actually handling them pretty well. When they made the jump, they're still sort of the same retro characters, and they talk about, you know, loving the past. When they first got called up, I said, the only way this works is if they actually just make them hipsters who like, like, who act like, you know, current, contemporary people who just, you know, grow the funny facial hair and say they like, and just pretend like wrestling was so much better back in the day. It's not too far from what they're doing. Right. But are they, you think they're, like, here to stay, or are they just, like, filling in for Inzo and cast since Inzo? those hurt right now. I think they're filling in,

unfortunately. I like the gimmick. I'm, you know, but I, here's the thing is I really love the old Vodal. I mean, like when Bo Dalles first got called up to the main roster, and that gimmick, which I think had more legs, didn't last. So this gimmick, which I like, which I think has even less legs, I

don't see, you know, I don't know, they've been doing a better job. They'll be on Superstars real soon. I would say on Chee Pete, the big thing with character, with creating a character is you can build a, you can make a character in NXT and get it over, right? Like I said, like the shining stars or whatever could get, could get over on

NXT because the crowd there is, like, they're supportive, you know, and they're like, they chant in unison and stuff. Not everything works, but a good gimmick can work. But the thing with bringing somebody over to Raw is that you have to, number one, maybe tweak the gimmick to make it more palatable to the mainstream. Like the Ascension should have never come up the way that they did, you know, being the same gimmick. But the second thing is you have to be ready to pivot, right?

You have to go in knowing what. What, like, in case of emergency break glass, you've got to know what's behind that glass. It's from the very start. And I think that hopefully they've been doing a better job of that. And hopefully the vaudevillans sort of have that second act built into them, built into their characters. We'll see if they've figured it out. But, yeah, I mean, Bo Dallas, they just clearly didn't. They had this, they debuted them well.

They had them wrestle, do all these kind of like squashy matches and get himself over. And then try to get himself over. And then what happened, then what was supposed to happen after that? I don't think anybody really knew. I mean, you know, you bring up, like, why gimmicks work in NXT versus WGB, and I think it's the same reason, like, in ECW people who get hot that would normally not get hot in WCW and WB. It's because people trust NXT.

Yeah. So when you bring out a character like a vaudevillian, they're like, okay, they probably know what they're doing. Let me just give it a burn. But WB.E has burned us so many times before. 100% true. Yeah. Like when you bring out something weird, they're just like, oh, this is going to be like Mantar.

Yeah. You know, like they don't have the, they don't have, they haven't earned up enough goodwill for us to. That's exactly right. And even if they bring out something good, you're just like, well, they're going to screw this up. Yeah. And ECW was the same thing where people would be like, like, you know, like people would, like, would have these amazing careers that normally, you know, just incredible was a main event. And I like that guy a lot.

But, you know, like if he wasn't just in WWE, it would not have worked out the second. Sure, and they had guys that were, you know, like minimally talented that sort of perpetually existed on the midcard or, you know, whatever. And they weren't, and they were beloved wrestlers, you know? I mean, to be able to get, like, I love Tommy Dreamer to death, but like, to look at that guy when he debuted, to think that he was going to someday be like the face of hardcore. The day, they just sort of made that happen just by sheer force of will. And, you know, a lot of Singapore cane strikes to the back is pretty incredible in its own

right. But anyway, wait, are we doing picks? Do you have, do you, do you care who's going to win Dawes Ziegler versus Baron Corbyn? I think it's, I don't, I really don't know this one because I think it could go, they care as a little about either one. I feel like that they, I think it's going to be Corbyn, but again, I got that would, I would not be surprised. Yeah, this has been a weird feud to predict from the start because it seems like Corbyn needs it that it needs to demolish, you know, needs to win in his debut feud, but it's weird to, if Dolv Ziegler has one, has any you know, one ounce of backstage creed or pull or whatever, it seems weird

to make him just die, you know, go under for Baron Corbyn. Didn't he already beat Corbyn last month? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're trading wins, but, yeah. 50-50, yeah. 50-50 booking, I would say. All right, so Corbyn, yeah, New Day has to beat the vaudevillans. Are we on the agreement there?

I mean, they may just because we're saying that, they may swear it. That's the only reason. Is there any way that Natalia beat Charlotte? No. Even with the Rick Flair, it gets involved, and she loses the belt stipulation. No, I don't, I don't see it.

I still think that they're building Charlotte to eventually lose to Sasha. Yeah. I think that that's, I think, I think that you're correct. But it's a, the stipulation is interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if there was like, Rick Flair was secretly involved and the title was held up the next night on Raw, only for Charlotte to eventually just get the title back or, you know, something to keep this going. But that's been, you know, it's been a fun feud, you know.

Like I was saying before, I'm happy to see Natalia, like, getting, getting, being put in a position to succeed. She's always been good. Yeah. You know? Rusev versus Calisto. I think Rusev wins just so they have the option of Sina possibly winning the title back when he comes back. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, Calisto's been really good, but there's just sort of a limit to, it seems like, again, they've just sort of capped out what they thought they could do with them.

He's really good. And, you know, he's impressed me, but I just don't. It's a new, wait, and the League of Nations is over. That's over. But the, but Rusef and Doreel. It's really over for Wade Barrett. Yeah. Like super over for him.

But yeah, it's over for everybody else too, I think. But Rousseff and Del Rio are still buddies. I guess. They were working together to. I mean, I heard a rumor, you know, I read all the dirt sheets on the worst. I'm sure anyone who works for the company is going to be like, this good, you know, if they're listening. But I, I, I heard that like, that they're keeping delst.

There's people that are keeping. Del Rio down like they don't really have a plan for Del Rio and then Rousseff has like a ton of backstage heat from other stuff so it's just weird to break up a faction and then keep two-thirds of it together I don't even know yeah I'm not even sure exactly what's happening with that faction so maybe maybe this is just one of those storylines it's really gonna be there's really artfully put together and it's gonna pay off in like six months with a lot of these like small twists and turn you never know when they stop looking at look at the new day when they stopped putting the microscope on stuff it could get really good yeah

I mean, it sucks as a new day. I mean, because the League of Nations is, like, as poorly as they were booked, a lot of the time, were, like, got, were getting really funny and, like, they were, they had to go out of, like, group charisma. Greatest WrestleMania 7 stable full time. That's what it felt like. Yeah, I guess that's true. What about, so the four way for the I.C. title, we talked about a little bit before. I mean, it's, I mean, it's a really cool match, you know? I mean, I'm sure it's probably going to be, I mean, I can see this being, like,

a throwaway five-minute thing. I could see them just like letting this be the anchor for the show and just put it, you know, have it go 30, 40 minutes or something like that. This one of the harder ones to predict, I'm guessing, right? Yeah, I mean, I said this at WrestleMania, but like it's, I can see a, I can see, like, I don't think that, like, if they're going to go with Owens and Zane, if they're going to go down that road, I don't even know they are, but if they're going to do Owen Zane, they don't need the I-C title, right?

I could see a thing where they're doing Owens and Zane. Zane through to SummerSlam and they just let Cizzoor versus Mizz be the IC title feud for right now, right? I can also see them splitting this off in the other two pairings where you have like Ms. versus Sammy Zane for a few months and then Owens versus Czaro and that would be for the IC title, right? I think the smart money's on Cizor to win this. I'm tempted to agree. I actually think Ciz are the better options, but just because they seem to be trying to give Miz a push, but also Cizzoara.

Both those guys seem like they're trying to find the right spot for them. And like I said, Owens and Zane don't really need it right now. Owens can keep milking the, I want to take back my title at any point in the next two years that he decides to not be wrestling Sammy Zane or, you know, just want, need a, you know, something to do on an episode of Raw. Although there's like, you know, I key, Cesarro's one of those guys. He's almost kind of like Dean Ambrose where like he only works like you're saying, like in a really elevated position. Sure. You know, like, Cizaro is one of those guys that I like. I'm less interested with him fighting the Mizz, but I still think he would be an amazing

Brock Lesnar opponent. You know, he's one of the only guys who could legitimately do that, like him, Kevin Owens, maybe, and Randy Orton. So it's, I don't know, it would just be so much better. I keep going back to this where can we combine the U.S. and Intercontinental Title? I know there's like not enough people, but it just makes it less important because nobody knows which title is more important. Yeah, it's totally true.

I mean, at least there's some, I mean, the I see title is clearly more important, but it just it's it's if it's their storytelling crutches and as long as they're there it you don't have to work that hard I mean they're there I mean and not that they don't the w. creative team doesn't but and they've done a good job for this one I mean to juggle the four guys in the I see title match in a way that they all sort of have a stake you know that like we're having trouble picking we can't project where they're going and also they've all gotten like a good amount of screen timing character development I mean the Miz is coming out of this better than he started so I mean they all are um Zane and Owens has the

been the closest to treading water in this for some, although they're still kind of telling their story to the casual fan in a way that you, you know, the people listening to this podcast, we don't need to be, have it reiterated to us that these guys have known each other for years, but for some people that's necessary. Do you think they're going to bring El Generigo

back at some point? Yeah, well, I told, I said this back back on my other podcast, but someone posted online that El Generico's mask, when you look at it, the red is actually the exact same shape as the Z, Sammy Zane logo, Oh, really? Like, there's no way it's not deliberate.

That, that's, like, Sammy Zan's always been a weird name. And it's like, what, and I could just imagine them being like, what if we use this? Oh, look at this mask is like an S.E. And then, like, and then like, yeah, and then we like, so we got to find a name with an S and a Z, you know, and that's kind of how it all came together. That's the coolest thing about that. It's like, oh, man, what do we do? We've already had him fight too much. All right.

Well, he's all generic on it. And then it's a completely different few. It's, it's such a gimmie. And I mean, I fantasy booked this. I think in a column or something a year or a year or two ago that like, like Sammy,

like they've been, they've been trying to, you know, they tried and failed with the original Sincara and that Sammy Zane could actually be the new Daniel Bryan

and what, the thing they always wanted from Sincara, which is like if they just had, you know, the authority keep him down and fire him and then he comes back

as a luchador, then he's like the luchador of their dreams and like the underdog, like, main inventor of their dreams. Like he, like,

and just the amount no matter how everyone listening to this and thinks there's no way they're ever going to do generico just the number of masks that they would sell makes it plausible more than anything else I mean you know them wanting AJ Stiles and Samoa Joe keep their names or evidence that they're willing to do anything

yeah I think and AJ said recently that like you know someone asked him or someone asked Samoa Joe and he said I have a really good lawyer it was a joke but then he said it was actually like you know we went and said do you want to sell t-shirts tomorrow or do you want to sell them in three months once I get this new name established. And I think that that's a...

The merch is a real consideration for him. I think so. But yeah, but I hope he comes back. So, okay, what else we have? Dean Ambrose versus Chris Jericho. In the Ambrose Asylum. It's so silly. But at the same time, I will...

I'll defend this match by saying, this isn't sillier than a lot of the stuff that ECW used to put on on a regular basis. Well, I think it feels more WCW Halloween Havocke. Yeah, that's true. You know, than it does. I kept saying, like, I would love the Asiw. them would just be like a big house and every door you open it's somebody who has a bad

relationship with the company now. Like it's like, oh my God, it's sunny. It's Scott Steiner. And that would be for me the craziest. Because the way it came down, it almost looked like a video game where you pick up props to fight the way they were elevated in each. So I think it's pretty stupid. But, you know, I mean, I'll always love Jericho even when he's in.

And, you know, I think that his heel version now is better than. any time he's been faced years beforehand. Yeah. You know, especially, you can't be in Fazi and not be a heel. A hundred percent true. You can't have a side celebrity band for the thing you're not known to, known as, and not be a heel. Yeah. You know?

I mean, you also can't be like a 45-year-old man in underwear and not be a heel. You know, that's just sort of inherently, like, like, he's, you know, showing off a body that he doesn't have anymore. But he's like, just really, but he's still really into it. I realized, too, when they had the whole light-up jacket feud, I'm like, is this a plot line from Greece? I feel like this is something that would happen in Greece. There's nothing better than you broke my

jacket. There's no better wrestling feud than you broke my thing. I mean, it keeps coming back over and over. The other great one, which we've seen, which we saw, I think, twice on Monday night, was like, I'm taking a title that doesn't belong to me and, like, pretending it's mine. Like, nothing makes a champion matter than someone just, like,

forcibly stealing the title. I mean, you think that in, like, a professional organization, there'd be some recourse here like, like, you know, texting Vince McMahon and saying, can you tell him to give me my title back? I always thought the coolest way they could get the Wyatt's over is if you have the why it's either the win the

world title or they will the intercontinental title or something, and then they do the Shane Douglas thing where they set it on fire in front everybody where they're like, hey, it's all meaningless, you know? Oh, yeah. But no, instead they're, I don't know what they're doing. What are the whites doing? I literally don't know the answer. They're not coming back. I guess Bray was injured

and Luke's injured and Eric Rowan, hopefully he's got a gig. I don't know. So I guess they're going to be coming back at some point. I don't know. They obviously need some sort of a retooled. They certainly do. When I talked to Bray at WrestleMania, it seemed like he had it planned out, but he just was waiting for someone in creative to say, okay. We'll see if any of that works out. Yeah. Such a talent, that guy.

He's the best. I mean, just really, he's so good. He's good in the ring. He's so good on the mic, you know, just with a little bit of steering. and he's one of the coolest real-life guys. Like, they should be sending him everywhere, you know, just because he is sort of scary and weird. I mean, very scary and weird in real life. I mean, Harper is great, too. They're both incredible, and it just stinks to, like, you know.

But back to Jericho Ambrose. I mean, I think that this is a silly feud, but it's fine. Like, this is a totally fine place for these two wrestlers to be, if they're not going to be in the main event or you know for ambrose at least who he's not going to be in the main event but you know it's just it just seemed like and listen i don't love ambrose in the ring or anything and i don't i don't love the almost like casey jones version of the brian pillman he's doing you know um but it just seems like such a miss it seems like they're just missing opportunities these guys when you look at the michael's jericho feud of like 2008 and how intensely personal

that was and you just see what could have happened at WrestleMania 32, if they just let Lesnar beat Ambrose to a pulp and taken more pain than anyone else, this whole feud would be completely different. Sure. It could probably headline the pay-per-view because it would about actually be about like two guys who really did hate each other rather than two guys. It seems like the dude-love versions of both of them are fighting. That's what it feels like.

Oh, my God. Now, okay, now I hate this match. That was exactly right. I mean, I don't know. That's kind of what it feels like. Maybe I'm being hypercritical here because I, no, you're. absolutely right. I mean, it's a comedy match. Like, it's a comedy feud. Like, that's, that's what it is. And, and, you know, I guess my point is that, like, just acknowledge what it is and don't,

you know, and let's not get to, you know, don't, don't criticize it for being, you know, a crap match or whatever, when it's clearly just setting out to be funny. But you're right, there's a way better version of this feud of putting these two guys together that they didn't even attempt to get at. And I guess they can. I mean, I also know that, like, Jericho can never be the heel like the Sean Michael's heel anymore. He's more of the man of a thousand four holds heel right now because he's just goofier now, drinking in baby. And it's not bad. But I don't know. I guess with Ambrose, you just, it felt like they could have had somebody there who can, maybe they still do. But why not? You know, like, I just thought it was kind of desperate in the months

leading up to Mania where he was headlining a lot of stuff because they knew Raines couldn't close at the show. Sure. So what do they do? And like we said, I mean, I've said it before, you said earlier in the show, I mean, Ambrose has that charisma to be a main eventer, you know? And he's, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's just a matter of them putting it together for him. You've said it before. It works better in the top position. It's weird when he's not. Yeah.

It's just, I mean, no one can be at the top all the time. I think that, you know, it'd be interesting to see where they go if they continue with this feud or if this is the end. It's a, you know, this, this, this treehouse of horrors match is, is going to be, it might be the, the right time to go out and, like, refill your beer or whatever. when you're watching the show. And then all we got left is the main event, man. Roman Reins versus A.J. Stiles. It's got to be Roman Reins, right? Right?

Yeah. I mean, I think that it's sort of a win-win. I mean, you know, we talk a lot about guys who can win by losing if you look good in the match. And A.J. Seals has done that against Roman Reins in the past. But I almost think that, like, just the cred he'll get for making Roman Reigns work is greater than any title. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I just can't see that. From everything I've heard, like, there's just no way that Vince is going to have a guy that didn't get over in his company, you know.

So, which is crazy. You know, people make this, like, people were always like, oh, Vince has to destroy whatever is competition. And I mean, that, that, that, that, that, I understand why he did that because, you know, back in the day, that probably helped it help putting Dusty in the Pocodots, you know, because that meant that WBF was. was the only sole competitor. He destroyed the memories of everybody else. But now it's like, dude, you're the only game in town. What do you have to lose by having this guy go over? No one's going to challenge you.

I think if any way is going to change it. It's right. It's with AJ Styles. I mean, the amount that they, I wrote about this on the ringer, on the ringer Facebook page. Yeah. The fact that they're actually acknowledging the world exists, you know, is really big. I mean, I don't, it's almost, I mean, like, AJ is incredibly over.

I don't want to discount what he's been able to do, what he can physically and like, you know, charisma-wise do, but it's almost, but like, I don't think that, I don't, I think that you're right and that Vince is never going to look at AJ Stiles and the reaction that he gets and say, now's the time to break the rules that I've established. But I kind of just think that it's, it's more of a realization of, that he's caused and just to know about where they are in business right now. I mean, they need, they need to find, they need to figure something else out. And if letting A.J. Styles go over is, I mean, that's a very simple thing that they, that it wouldn't

be a terrible idea to test market, you know? Yeah, no, I don't know. They've been doing that over the past couple of months. I mean, I still think this ends in some former fashion with, you know, with the club officially forming, or you go straight to, you know, AJ didn't get the job done and here's our real friend Finn Baller, you know, and take it from there. And then that feud can commence. I think, like, I mean, I get to, though, realistically, what, AJ styles, like 38 or something.

Like, he's a little older. I mean, it's not like ancient for wrestling terms. Oh, sure. So it's not like, you know, it's not like they're hot, like they're keeping back the new guy. But I heard rumors that Anderson and Gallas are going to turn on AJ. Like I've heard like. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's what everybody's assuming just because like Finn Ballard doesn't have a place in this feud.

If he gets called up sooner rather than later, unless it's in age, I mean, just like in Japan, he took AJ's place in the bullet club, right? So like, it'll be, or AJ took his place. Sorry, did I get that backwards? Right. So, but yeah, but like it's, it's, they, they, they fill sort of the same spot, you know. But it's so interesting because how we're talking about this has nothing to do with Raines. And that just shows you how they haven't got them over at all.

Has nothing to do with WWE either. I like this is like everything existing. Everything in the WWE man of incident is happening on a meta level and it's the happiest I've ever been in my life. Like, it's just so crazy. But yeah, Roman Raines, I mean, listen, if that's his job, he's going to be the big, you know, the big champ. And obviously he's doing this interesting job of working sort of heel. and, you know, he's, we're in a much better Roman reign space than we were three months ago. What if this was like the ultimate master plan of McMahon finally getting Sina over as a face?

Having a beat. He beats rains and everyone's excited. That would be really great. I mean, in that, Matt, oh, man. But that could be SummerSlam is that, like, finally, after 13 years, Sina is the face that I always knew he could be. Yeah, I mean, if Vince McMahon comes out and, like, publicly shames, publicly shames, publicly shames Roman Reins just like, I put a lot of money into you

and you couldn't get a single cheer and then brings out John Sina. Like that might be the only way to get Roman Raines over as a baby phase. But yeah, that could be, I mean, listen, I mean, we shouldn't spend too much time fantasy booking because we'll just be disappointed in the end. That's the one lesson I've learned

in many years of podcasting and writing about wrestling. Wrestling is like a relationship. Don't, you know, don't put unrealistic expectations on it. Yeah, or any expectations on it. All it's ever going to do is disappoint you. That's not true. You can enjoy it. And Extreme Rules is inevitably fun. There will be things that we like about it. It's just like the one night only, I mean, one night stand show that we watched before. I mean, there's about two-thirds of that show is skippable, you know? I mean, then like for the, for the Terry Funk match, for the main event, there are a couple other moments throughout the show.

I mean, and, you know, it's just transcendent. And that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, something that this sort of hardcore stuff can do for us that regular matches can't. Yeah. It's like, you know, if every, I always judge a great WrestleMania or something by like, if it's got three great moments, then I'm fine with it. Right. Everything else is terrible, whatever. Really?

Yeah. I think that I, on some level, I agree with that. But then also, like, you can, you can, it's really easy to argue both ways, right? I mean, you can just be like, well, yeah, all they were doing was making moments. There was no match. Yeah. There was no, there wasn't a card. There wasn't much of a, you know, a thought-out card.

I sort of agree with you in just so much as like the moment retroactively makes the match. Yeah. You know, like I don't remember what happened. I didn't remember what happened at Hell and a Cell at WrestleMania as I was walking out of the arena. But I was like pretty sure when I rewatched it, I was going to think it was awesome. And it was pretty awesome. Yeah. But part of that is knowing that that big fall is coming, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. I was, that match I have mixed opinions about, but I just think it's weird that Shane was able to like put forth that good of an effort. I just wanted to be such a schmaz. The whole thing I wanted to be a schmaz and it wasn't. Yeah, there's a, yeah, I mean, there are a lot of very, there are a lot of very good complaints you can have about that match on like a sort of like, like, what the hell level, you know, like what was the thinking, like the logic doesn't hold up behind any of this. but, you know, it was what it was, and we got to see Shane Floph of a giant.

I mean, that's pretty cool. Yeah, nothing can be better. Extreme rules probably nobody falling off the top of a cage, but, you know, we might see, we might see something. Maybe a crew member. What? Maybe a crew member. That's really, wait, so we got a no-d-Q match.

We got an Extreme Rules match. Texas Tornado match. They just announced that. Usas versus Anderson and Gallos. Oh, really? It's not a Texas tornado match. That's what they call. What is it called?

Texas Trinado? Tornado tag match. Oh, is that it? Oh, Texas Tornado is the wrestler, yeah. Carry on Eric RIP.P. Rest of peace. So, yeah, that match has not made it on to Wikipedia yet, so I'm very, I just. Maybe they're taking it off, but I remember they announced somewhere.

I think just the wrestling fans that update Wikipedia have taken the day off. I think that's the, that I'm disgusted. This podcast is not going to have a lot of success if you go after internet wrestling fans, David. I guarantee you. Probably true. The submission match for the women's championship, so that's a really cool and logical stipulation. Fatal 4-way, which is not particularly fatal.

It just is a match with a name, and they put it on this card. The asylum matches are one big schmazy, I mean, has their chance to be the one big, you know, kind of crazy match. And, I mean, I'm sure the main event will have plenty of chairs. They've had lots of, you know, and they'll have some cool bumps.

They'll have a lot of looking at chairs, too. There's been more looking at a chair during this main event program. Yeah. Should I hit someone with a chair? It's like you could just split the difference and punch him five times and the amount of time you're going to stare at the chair. Exactly.

Not to mention I'd be way more scared of the styles clash going wrong than a chair. That is the most lethal move. It's like in the WWU right now. That's way scarier. Yeah. Than a chair on the flat of your back, definitely. All right, man. Well, that's it.

Do we miss anything? No. That James Bond reference. I think my friend comedian Mike Warren's actually made it. observation so I don't want to pretend like I stole that. What's the James Bond? I think I called Cizaro James Bond at some point with the James Bond. Oh yeah, he's like a James Bond.

I was like a Chippendance. I was getting nervous of my wrestling podcast. You know what I mean? This is the one place where you're safe. You can just steal all of your friends' material. Wrestling, yeah, is the one place you can do. What was the news stuff that you mentioned earlier? No, the big news for me was that Vince McMahon sold 40 million of his own stock,

which makes me wonder, David, is the XFL coming back? I think that that's the only possible solution. It's the only possible scenario. Or the World Bodybuilding Federation or whatever. Whenever Vince moves that much money, you should be a little scared. Well, Steph sold... Because something really stupid is coming. Yeah, Steph sold a bunch of stock, you know, earlier this was the beginning of this year.

And it turned out she was just buying a gigantic new plot of land or something. Yeah, yeah. Everybody was really freaking out for a while. I mean, it's weird that they're in this situation where they're like, where Vince is the majority owner, you know, the company, no matter how much he sells, probably. and and yet he's still like like people watch him when he's like oh I just want to like I want some liquid you know with some cash so that I can like buy the best boat anyone's ever seen

where he's like gonna you know I'm going to build a build a space shuttle I'm going to beat Elon Musk to outer space or whatever like but still people look at him and think WW is about to go wonder I mean there've been some weird like grumblings from like I saw some some like investor site was talking about last week something was talking about how you know, like they are a very interesting property for a major media company to buy because they sort of have this Marvel universe or like, you know, Disney sort of like, you know, they're their own brand, they're their own thing. You could combine them with amusement parks or with whatever else. And they have this like this WW network platform that if you can just sort of like swipe that

technology and use it for your other things and there's a lot of, there's a lot of ways that they're valuable beyond their cable ratings. Yeah, absolutely. And wrestling is so weird because like in almost every other medium like you're like, oh, if somebody buys something you love, you're kind of like, oh, I hope they don't screw it up. And wrestling's the only one you're like, man, wouldn't it be great if someone Disney bought this? And then they could save it maybe. Oh man. Well, they would certainly run into the ground, but we could be hope we could fantasy book the way that that gets really, that that's really, that works out too. You also told me earlier that Paige and Del Rio were dating in real life, which is, you know. Yeah. When she calls him Pappy, it's because people genuinely think that he's her father. Oh, no.

I saved this for the end because I knew I couldn't go on after we broke this news. Yeah, you're a big page mark, right? Yeah, from the very beginning, yeah. See, I liked her. You know, I think she's really good wrestler, and I think she's being underutilized and smoking hot. But, like, once you're on Total Divas for me, it's like, I'm not as turned on anymore. Totally true. I see how the sausage is made, you know.

Exactly. And it's all, yeah, it's like day. It's like if someone you think is really hot, dates like the worst person in the world. Right. In your regular life, I'm not saying this about Del Rio. I've met him. He seems very nice. But, yeah, I mean, it just seems like there's some people, there's always some people in your life that are just, that just, like, the stink of that dude will never get off the girl.

Del Rio is that for you? No, no, no. Total Divas is that for me. Right. Like, it just sort of changes the way you perceive them. I felt that about Luna and Bam Bam. Wait, which one of them did it change for you? Use your imagination, David.

All right. But I bet you that sex tape's pretty good on a side note. Luna and Bam Bam? I cannot think of a better way to end the first episode of this podcast. The Jersey Triad and Luna. I'm not. We're done. We're over.

Guys, thanks for listening. Thanks to Tate and thanks to Joe for producing the show. And thanks for The Ringer and Channel 33 for employing me. You have anything to save the end? Plug, man. Follow me at DSJermaine on Twitter. Danceatejermain. comnet has all my stand updates and all the shorts I've done.

Watch not safe for Nikki Glazer. I co-host that podcast. I also co-host my dumb friends podcast on all things comedy networks. That was really good. I'm at David Shoemaker somehow. I got my real name on Twitter. So yeah, we follow each other and occasionally go back and forth. Mostly text messages because our jokes are really lewd.

But just a lot. There's not a mass appeal for the Bam Bam and Luna humor. I think so. But maybe somebody will just start that Twitter account. Guys, thanks for listening. We'll be back. early next week after, or I'll be back after Extreme Rules. We'll have something up probably Tuesday afternoon.

So subscribe to Channel 33 and we'll keep this thing going. Thanks.