The Press Box - Ep. 130: 'The Ringer Wrestling Podcast' With David Shoemaker and Dan St. Germain

Episode Date: June 14, 2016

The Ringer's David Shoemaker and comedian Dan St. Germain on 'WWE SmackDown' vs. 'Raw' (15:00), 'NXT TakeOver: The End' (32:00), the upcoming 'Money in the Bank' 2016 (47:00), and Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins (1:04:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's podcast is brought to you by the new HBO series, Any Given Wednesday with Bill Simmons. The new show will feature intimate conversations with compelling guests from the worlds of pop culture, sports, entertainment, the arts, and technology. Any Given Wednesday with Bill Simmons will also include field segments in Simmons's signature commentary on current events. Make sure to watch Any Given Wednesday with Bill Simmons, premiering Wednesday, June 22nd at 10 p.m. on HBO. We're also brought to you by our new website, The Ringer.com. presented by Miller Light, go now and check out the latest in pop culture, sports, and tech at the ringer.com.

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I'm sitting in a room here with my good friend Dan St. Germain and the entire Ringer podcast committee who are just all staring at us strangely. I was saying I'm so excited there's a desk this time. There's a table. I know. The last time Dan was here, we had two roly chairs and we got a FEMA shelter in here. Oh my God. Yeah.

The ringer podcast team is taking over the world. It's a new world order. Yeah, it's a much better studio now. And we have so many exciting wrestling things to talk about early early on the Tuesday morning. Well, we should start out. I just want to start out by saying like, I got so, because I thought when you said, let's watch the first money of the bank 2010. Right.

I thought you meant the whole 2010 pay-per-view. But you actually meant the first money in the bank match. I mean, just the match. And, man, you would have saved us three hours of one of the worst pay-per-views. Like, it was such a bad. The 2010 first money of the bank pay-per-view was so rough. And I'm not one of these guys who shits on, like, wrestling all the time. No, I know.

It was rough. It was really bad. So, I mean, for, for, for, anybody that doesn't understand we've been going back with, I've been going back with my guests and watching some sort of flashback match or show every, every week in preparation to have some little side discussion. And I was like, well, Money in the Bank is coming up.

Let's watch the first Money in the Bank and just did 2010 because it was the first pay-per-view. Yeah. And then you really undersold it. At some point over the weekend, I just texted you and I was like, sorry, buddy, I screwed up. We should really have watched the 2005 Money in the Bank match at WrestleMania. And then I felt really terrible. So I watched both as well. It was rough.

That one was, I mean, it was almost, like, you see that pay-per-view and you're like, oh, I get what CM Punk was talking about. Yeah. That's what the whole paper was to be. What the pipe bomb was in reaction to? It was that pay-per-view. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's funny because there's, it's easy to, you could, like, turn that on and, like, you know, clean up your apartment and it wouldn't seem that bad. You know, at any of it, like, the difference between bad wrestling and good wrestling is about 10%.

Yeah. But, yeah, the bad, like, if you just sit down and make yourself watch it, you're just, your eyes start bleeding after a while. It was, it was really tough. That was a tough pay-per-view to watch. I mean, it was, it was, like, right before, like, the main event was seen of her Seamus. Can we talk, should we talk about this now or no? Yeah, just go right in, man.

A seat of her Seamus in a steel cage match. And it was like this bizarrely, like, it didn't advance the story at all because the, the Nexus thing was happening where the Nexus invaded. uh, W.E. And that was a, that was the one really cool storyline that year. Yeah. And that was like, that was the peak Nexus moment too. I mean, it was like all the original members were there. Yes. And they were already starting to ruin it. Like, because at the end of that, at the end of the, um, Nexus is supposed to be this really like almost like a rabid NWO, you know, where they're going in and they have, you know, they're just like destroying everything. And it's Seamus first John Cena. And I thought,

the funniest thing about it was there's supposed to be this like intense, rabid, and, you know, Anarchy group and then they get there and they totally respect the authority of the referee. This is after they've just, like, you know, choked out ring announcers. Can I say something about that? Like, that's, I was watching Raw this week, watching that, uh, the tag team match between Del Rio and Owens versus the Lucha Dragon. Yeah. It's very, like, like, like quietly very, very good match.

Yeah. But the reason, I've always said that Del Rio is one of my favorites because when, when the camera's on it, when he doesn't need to be in the moment, he's always. in the moment, right? I mean, just like the camera's on, like he has the guy in a submission hold, the camera's on the guy, and Del Rio is still just like doing all the hand gestures and stuff. Kevin Owens is better at him than that. Kevin Owens might be the most, despite looking like a chubby guy.

Yeah. He's the most naturally gifted professional wrestler, I think, in our lifetimes, because this goes to what you were saying. There was a moment where Del Rio was out of the ring. He got not, he was prone on the floor, he was about to get counted out. And as you know, they were, like, fighting for their, to keep their spots in the money in the bank match. And Kevin Owens, who, going by the rules that have been established, you know, at least by proxy over the course of the years, could just have gone over at any point and helped Del Rio up and, like, dusted off his back and helped him back into the ring. But he spent the first, like, eight counts of the 10 count outside the ring just, like frantically screaming at him, like, hey, you're going to get us, you're going to get us thrown out.

And then he walks, so it runs over the last minute and tosses him in. And he was violating the rule, like the hypothetical rules that are. set forward but he's so good at doing it that it made the moment a hundred times more compelling but what you're talking about i i remember watching that and having the same sinking feeling in my stomach is it like they don't the people doing this the wrestlers and god love them they were all like 23 at the time or they were very very fresh they didn't understand why they were ignoring their or why they were they were like following the referees right they were just told who out there and do this one thing they did it they went through the motions and they kind of went to the motions

with an extra sheen of like gruff heel stick or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But like you got to, I mean, like, it's, and some guys spent 20 years in the business and never figure it out. But Kevin Owens has it figured out. You can do inane things. All you have to do is commit to it and act the right way. And it's, and it can be really great.

Yeah. Well, I think with that, with that and, you know, like people who, you know, you go back and it was just bad storytelling with the Nexus were like, like, because when they, when they first, I remember how cool it was, when they first debuted and they destroyed. and they destroyed the ring and they left scene in the middle of it. You're like, wow, this is, in a lot of ways, cooler than the NWO because you're like,

you don't even know what these guys are going to do. But then they have a rep, because basically they're trying to like use wirecutters to get into the match with Sina and Seamus and have a referee just take those, not wire cutters, that chain bolt bolt cutters. The referee take it and them just like seven guys with this tiny referee and they're just like,

what are you doing? And then the referee just goes away without them physically assaulting this guy. You're like, well, now we've completely lost respect for them as a credible opponent for Sina now that like a referee's pushing him around. Yeah, it's very weird. It's like if you've gone

to the extent, if you've gone to the, if you've gone to the difficulty to get bolt cutters, you think you might kind of be it just like, you're in like fuck you mode, right? Yeah, right. It doesn't matter who attacks you or who gets in your way. That's it. That's a really good point. And you can't bring bolt cutters on a plane. Like, so they had to get to that city

go to an Ace Hardware store, grab the bolt cutters. You don't think the WW tour bus just pulls off at like at like Home Depot on the way to the arena so they can get their ladders and trash cans. No, no, they had to rent a car. Oh, right. They're in their own vehicle. Yeah, they have their own bus. They're not allowed storyline purposes to even use WWE's hardware.

We should like, let's circle back around to this. No, I told. I'm happy to talk about it. I'm still smarting over watching the whole three hours. Yeah, that was really rough. I apologize. guys. Listen, the, I mean, I just got done watching Raw. I was up late. This is Tuesday morning recording this for people who were listening. I was up late with the ringer crew watching the

basketball game last night and then fell asleep watching Raw afterwards and woke up and sort of cramming it in the rest of it in this morning. I, man, maybe it was because I was kind of speeding through it. I really enjoyed Raw this week. I thought it was a really effective Go-Home show. It was definitely, you know, not as much like going. up the ladder and grabbing the suitcases last week. Yeah, there were no promo. There were no interview segments that just began with five people sitting on top of ladders. Yeah, yeah.

No, I liked the, I mean, I liked, I mean, I don't know, do you want to go through a beat by beat? Not entirely beat by beat, but let's, but the thing, I mean, I'll mention a few things and you tell me what you think. Number one, it was probably one night only, but corporate Kane was back. I mean, I don't think anything could have excited me more. It's kind of fun that they're doing like GMs every week, GMs of GM pass. Do you think we're going to see John Laurenitis? Is Johnny A's going to make the comeback? I hope so.

I wish, is Jack Tunney dead? Jack Tunney is dead. Well, that was the one I was really looking forward to. I mean, but Jack Tunney's whole thing was that he was the son of another Tunney, right? What was his name? What was his dad's name? Anyway. Who do I want to see?

What's his name? The guy. I'm just saying there could be other tunnies around that could. Jack Tunney Jr.? Yeah. Yeah, Brie and Jack Tunney Jr. That's who I want. He's like, I feel like, well, we have like.

John Tunney was his dad. We have multi-generational wrestlers. We should have multi-generational. I mean, GMs. Stefan Shane. Stephen Shane. Not that they haven't earned it with their lives.

But they're, I mean, but they're, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, so Jack Tony probably won't be there.

Mick Foley could always make a comeback. McFolly is definitely going to be one of the guys who comes. Well, then we had. Rick Flair has a weirdly tour, I mean, has spent a long time or, I mean,

a very significant period of time in a, in a managerial role at WW. And only game. it up so he could fight the Undertaker WrestleMania 18. That's how to make a storyline work. You know, like all these guys should want to be punching other guys in the face and if you're ready to end

a storyline, like let that be the option. Well, William Regal is so like so, because I watched the next, NXT paper review. Oh, that we should talk about that. I totally forgot to touch on that last week. That was such an awesome pay-per-view. But William Regal is so good as a GM. He's so good.

And to watch like, and it shows you like you don't have to have this evil authority figure to make really good wrestling. He's just a GM and he totally sells the product like when they have, when they had what's his name walking at the end. The guy who was in TNA. Oh, rude. Rood.

Walks into that room at the end and you're like, oh, what is going on? It's dispense. And it's not just Regal being evil. Like he's also a member of the audience. Like, what is this guy going? So it's just, it shows you like, we don't have to do the evil authority figure every time. There can be a different type of authority figure. I agree.

I mean, I guess the problem is that with NXT, well, he's great, don't get me wrong. I mean, and he had, he was, he was a GM in, on Raw 2, right? He'd be raw back as GM for sure. But the, but there's a sort of like implication of, implication that there is a government, that there is like a president of NXT above him. You know, that Triple H exists, right?

The McMahon's exist, except it's sort of like the, the shoot versions of those people. So the only reason why, I mean, one of the reasons why William Regal works is because you know that he's not actually the owner, right? And the owner is presumably sane and somewhere in a different city and, you know, and writing the checks and stuff. I guess my whole point is like in WWE, in like raw continuity, the highest ranking people in WWE are like abject lunatics. So there's no one they could put in charge that you would really trust that would really, that would be like like a sober. Barrios? Maybe he, him. The guy who's like the financial runs all the... Oh, yeah, the guy that runs all the stockholder meetings.

Yeah, that's the only guy that people would be like, all right, he's boring enough to fill that. That's a really good call. Yeah, but I was happy to see corporate cane. Kane is one character that like... This is the first time anyone said that in three years. Oh, man, I was so stoked to see him. I always liked corporate Kane. Only because, like, Shane, at his best moments, corporate Kane, or just unmasked Kane, can really, like,

be in inject a certain personality into the goings on and then the backstage interviews it doesn't exist otherwise he's a very unique skill set yes right and he's a and i think that if you're like a smirk or whatever like i am you like hear all these glowing stories about him backstage so you always want him to do and you know i i think libertarianism is bullshit and i still like the guy so you know um yeah no but i think that what's that like specifically Shane and Stephanie they need someone to play off of. Yeah. There were moments when there were the moment right when Ken walked in, I think.

Stephanie had a couple of just like, like there were a couple of different looks Stephanie gave where she like validated my opinion that she is the best actor employed by WWE. Like she has some very, she is very natural. Like with some of the stuff she did, you know, about 75% of the time just very, very natural and compelling. But Shane, Shane is getting his groove back. Shane, like for the first couple of.

a month was very awkward. You know, when he first made his comeback, he was just tripping all over his lines. Not a knock on the guy. No one can come back cold and do what these guys, you know, what the full timers do week in and week out. But their chemistry is sort of odd, especially backstage where they had this good in-ring chemistry, Shaden Steph. Yeah.

But you put him backstage and they're suddenly like quiet and just playing to a much, you know, it's a much different volume. And their chemistry is a little bit off from me. I thought that corporate cane really like made. like made everything feel a lot more normal is the wrong word considering that we're talking about a demon with a suit on but yeah

you get what I'm getting out there I almost I do wish that they had brought him back a little like he was one of the later GMs they're gonna bring back just because it almost seems like corporate king like what he lost the corporate king character in probably like November or something like that hasn't been that long yeah

it hasn't been that long so that would be my only criticism of it, but yeah, it was cool to see him back. Here's what I guess my overall. I like that Shane and Stephanie, I think I touched on this one last week, Shane and Steph were fighting over Smackdown. Well, I guess this week there was a little bit uncertainty. Like Stephanie wouldn't let Shane take either show. You know, they're kind of like quibbling over it.

But I like the built-in, this felt like a very, there's a lot of built-in uncertainty in this episode of Raw, right? And this is one of them is, we don't know what's going to happen. Like in years past, it would have just said, you know, Shane's in charge of Smackdown and it's the better show and just try to convince of that. Now they're just kind of leaving it up in the air and we don't know which show

they're pretending is the better show. We don't know if they're going to go all in on SmackDown or just let it continue to be the B show, you know? I think like there's, it seems like Smackdown now that it's on USA it could eclipse Raw. And I know that's a crazy thing to say, but like there's no reason that Monday night

that Raw should do so much better than Smackdown when it's going to have to compete with football. And, like, there's so many other things that could take over the ratings that, like, SmackDown is a real opportunity to be on this or at least near the same level as raw. And it was when Paul Heyman was running it. So, yeah. It would be cool to see it back. It would be, I mean, a lot more work for you every week.

But I appreciate you thinking about me. They're also, I think, I think most are reported this week that in the not too distant future, there are going to be two pay-per-views every month. Yeah. Yeah. See, now, now you see how I feel. It's enough. Come on, guys. We need to make stuff special.

Yeah, it's true. You need to make stuff special. This is the really, it's the really weird. It's the furthest, it's the furthest reach of the brand split and the part that really doesn't need to happen. You know, it's not like. It just bothers me. And I know you can't go back to squash matches, but like Cesar over Sammy Zane should be a bigger deal. Well.

Then it wasn't good. And that ending was, that ending. I mean, I know that we've seen Ambrose Jericho a couple of times in your spouse, but the finish to that match, that main event match. last night was like a cool pay-per-view finish spot that they could have saved for some point in the future. Like not only are you seeing pay-per-view matches. And don't get me wrong. I love, I kind of like, I really perked up when that happened on Raw. But that like code breaker into the dirty deeds little spot that they did. Like that could have been, that could have been

the closing moment or, well, of the semi-main of any, you know, any pay-per-view over the past six months. And it should, like, it was a cool little moment. Yeah. But yeah, you're right. I mean, they give away so much. And then they're going to have to. So much. I think the weird thing is just going to be the scheduling because they've done they've been they've been towing this line between acting like WWE like kind of the core on the corporate side has been tolling this line between sort of putting up the

front of like trying of like getting all these new WWE subscriber I mean network subscribers and sort of expanding the fan base and all this sort of stuff but really at the end of the day it's just a lot of consolidation of the hardest of hardcore fans yeah right I mean the only people who are going to be uh only people who are going to be super interested in watching three hours like on a pay-per-view weekend three hours on sunday three hours on monday two hours on tuesday all lives are people who drink

mountain do code red for breakfast are the people who are listening to this podcast to shut the fuck up dance st. no but yeah i mean it's it's it's only the most like die-hard fans uh like i like they're they're definitely i mean there are many weeks there are many three-day stretches where i will watch eight whatever seven or eight hours of wrestling like that's not the strangest thing in the world but to have your life kind of like the exact times of sitting down and watching live and tweeting about it you know prescribed is is sort of strange but i do wonder what do you think is a weirder moment like somebody walking in on you on the eighth hour of wrestling like holding an empty whiskey flask or like walking

into a guy whose wife just left him like looking at like photos of them what do you think is a more like unsettling. I was wondering how creepy that was going to get on the back end. See, I didn't go totally like true detective or something like that. I brought up last. Yeah. My reference bank is a low, guys. No, I mean, there have definitely been some times when I would, when I had long

weekends of wrestling where it was just sort of like, you know, I would like just say goodbye to my friends on a Thursday or Friday or whatever. Check it would jump here. Yeah, tell my roommate not to bother like coming home for a couple days. Don't come home. It's just, she can, like, you know, it's fine if you want to come home, but like, I'm going to be, it's probably, it's going to be an ugly scene in the living room. It's going to look like some, like, Cheetos triage unit going on. She's like, you're watching the same in your house over and over again.

So, but, so I guess just conceptually, before we get too far away from this, is it, let's just say you, you, Dan St. Germain, the pinnacle of the, of the fairly serious fan. Yeah, yeah. But not the guy who's going to watch. Not totally, but yeah. But you're not going to watch that. You're not going to just instinctively watch Sunday, Monday, Tuesday in a row of live live wrestling. I can't.

So do you, if you, if somebody calls you on Sunday night and they say, hey, we got to have dinner this week, important thing. Monday or Tuesday, you pick. Do you pick, which night do you go out on? Which night do you skip wrestling? I mean, right now, Tuesday, but like. No, but once it's, once it's a live show that presumably is the end of the wrestling week. I got to see how the draft goes.

Oh, you care about the talent. Yeah, I care about the talent. Probably, honestly, and this is like, because I like Stephanie's a character better than shame, but probably maybe the one that Stephanie's not on just because then it won't have the evil authority figure and not every single storywide will have her plugged in it. But I don't know.

I mean, like, it took me a while to watch NXT. And then without a doubt, the most fun I had all week watching wrestling was watching the NXT pay-per-view. So it just, it takes a while for something to be, for people to get into something. I agree. I think, I mean, I guess what I'm thinking about in a deeper level is like when I write a column after a pay-per-view, I'll be writing one. I'll be writing my preview to money in the bank this weekend on the ringer.com. Yeah.

And I'll be writing some sort of recap next week. The ringer.com is a lovely website that, that I'm sure everybody knows that I, that I work for. But the, but yeah, when I write my, I, you know, the pay-review will happen on a Sunday. I have to wait and watch Raw because who knows what's going to change, you know? Like, I'm not going to put up a big essay on Monday afternoon and then have everything I wrote be negated by what happened Monday night. So I wait till after Raw to write anything. Now I'm waiting till after Smackdown, assuming that something interesting might happen because

it's live. I think that if it was up to me, I'd have to watch Smackdown just because it's a continuation of the live storyline. Yeah, and it'll recap Raw. But who knows? Because for so long now, Smackdowns just felt like House Show Tuesdays. It's sometimes a very, very good house show. But yeah, you're absolutely right.

You mentioned the NXT, The End, Take Over the End show that happened this week. So great, right? Oh, my gosh. Let's talk about it. It was really good. Again, I missed that, I think, because of basketball. It's really working for a sports and pop culture website. You end up with a lot of social obligations that involve, like, watching basketball,

which is, you know, I'm a huge bad. A lot of not going outside for the mask, man. Oh, yeah. I have not, I've not been outside in three weeks since I moved to Los Angeles. No, you might be able to tell by my, it's hard. It's hard to believe it with, like, my mahogany tan, but I've been inside for a long time. You are Persian now. It's crazy.

I know. A lot has changed since I moved to California, guys. So is there, I mean, I don't know how far back you want to go on this, on this card. I'll just run through the results and you jump in if there's anything. Did you see Ty Dillinger versus? Sienomas? No, I did not. I saw the beginning of that, but I was also on my elliptical machine, not to brag guys.

I didn't. I didn't see as much as I. I have the DeAngelo V now on my stomach. It's crazy. Yeah. Oh, really? How does this feel? No.

You got to get some. You got to get some. I had a whole medium Papa John's pizza last night by myself. I watched her also now. A medium is nothing, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My last Papa John's experience, I was in Brooklyn actually writing, and I went to a bar to write and and then realized only as I was leaving that I didn't have my life.

wallet and I and luckily my buddy was was I mean I'm friendly with the bartender yeah Danny if you're listening shout out to you and so he was like just pay me pay me next time not a big deal but then I was planning on getting food on the way home and I had no dollars and at that point at this point it's like one in the morning so I look on my phone I'm just like what can I make happen and I didn't want to wait for seamless or for anything like that to show up so I just looked for seamless pickup and the only thing that I could find was a popadjohn's that was like only just a mere two blocks out of the way yeah and so I just I just I just ordered myself Christmas music playing in the background.

I know. There's Mannheim Steamroller. It was blaring on my iPod. But the, yeah, no, I walked home and got to pizza, and I've never walked faster than to get that back to my room. Because once you smell it, it's like crack, man. I just can't. So good. And I ate healthy all last week.

I was so much better. And then, well, then Sunday night, I went out and I went, you know, because I overeat. Now I don't drink or smoke anymore. So I went to one of those sushi conveyor. I saw a movie and then a sushi conveyor place. And I'm just, I just keep pouring. I was like, who knows if Gaios is coming again, you know? And then I ate all that.

And then the next day, I got totally thrown off my schedule, but I'm back, baby. I don't know how this kept back in. You're back? It doesn't sound much like you're back. You had a pizza, like 12 hours ago. I know, but I'm back. I'm back. I'm back.

I'm back. You know, I'm like a stockbroker has like a meth habit on the weekends. Okay. Yeah. That's, yeah, I know so many of those people. Cianamas is, uh, was Lassandra in Mexico. He's a really good, like, second or third generation place. but he's like, he's a second or third generation star.

He's, he's very good. It'll be interesting to see, if I remember correctly, he was one of the several Mexican wrestlers that was signed with a lot of fanfare. And he's just recently been repackaged and this might be, this might be the look for him. Yeah, I mean, Ty Dillinger is going to be the, the, I think he's going to get in better and better shape and get weirder and weirder hair and just continue jobbing in NXT for the rest of his life.

But I, but he's, he's, you don't want to be the guy who jobs on the first match of an NXT show. I'm not sure. I think of all the places in the history of wrestling to be, NXT in Orlando is not a bad place. No. I think if Ty Dillinger never got called up, and he very well may get called up, but I think if he never did,

he would continue to be employed by them for like 15 more years. I hope it's the Heath Slater thing for, you know, anybody. Yeah. I mean, if you're going to be Heath Slater, wouldn't you rather be Tye Dillinger? Wouldn't you rather be Heath Slater who just gets to live in Orlando and not spend all of his life on the road? I don't know.

You're a comic, maybe. you like being on the road? At times. It really just depends on the weekend, you know? Because, you know, if you have a good week, it's like the greatest if you're on the road and you have like a good weekend. Yeah. If you're single, you meet like, you get like a weekend girlfriend, you know what I mean?

Like, it's not just like a one night stand. This is my dream. Go like golfing, like mini golfing. You're like, what is this right now? And then it ends. It's a perfect relationship. It ends in like three days. And then you're going out on the eat. It's a fun time. But if you're, you know, I mean, if you're in Fort Waterdale or doing the hard rock or something, you want to.

you know put a gun in your mouth it just depends on where you're at the yeah i mean i guess i always have this like weird anxiety that every time i go somewhere i'm going to miss the awesomest weekend in the city that i'm living in yeah that's a weird anxiety you don't have that you're not just like what if what if everybody goes out what if all my friends hang out in l.a and it's the best i don't have many friends so no yeah no me neither in l i don't know what i'm freaking out of i mean i go you know like i go out with like two people usually like i went out with a friend two nights ago and then I don't like I'm not a big part I don't drink anymore so I'm not a big party guy anymore so I mean so yeah I don't not as much no as much I'm not as nervous anymore um I guess I used to be in college I was you know I was like oh my God

you know we that was the vodka Gatorade party you missed it that yeah that would have been that would have been terrible um yeah way the man red bull really changed the game um the it was like when dillon went electric I'm trying really hard to get back to NXE here. The revival against American Alpha, that was sort of a weird, like the revival got the belts back. Yeah, I actually kind of like that. Do you think it's because they're going to be trading wins, or do you think it's because it always has to be in the equation, like her American Alpha about to get called up? Maybe. I mean, it seemed like who's the guy who was, and I always blank on his name, but, I mean, the ending of the match was the coolest, the new tag team.

And then the dude who used to manage the road warriors, right? Oh, yeah. That was, he looked so cool. Paul Ellering, yeah. Paul Ellering, sorry. That image of him, like, kind of dressed like whenever Bing Kingsley's a bad guy, you know, he's got like the black turtleneg, the cool suit, and then the two guys who were matching right aside.

And he didn't say anything. Yeah. I was like, this, this reminded me. I mean, it's not the same thing, but like, when Lesnar came in and just, like, destroyed everyone in the ring, it kind of had that feel. Paul Ellering may be the only wrestling manager in our lifetimes who hasn't just, like, Who has kept the mystique up. Just basically because he quit.

I mean, he disappeared. Who doesn't look like he should be, like, sitting in a car dealership. Well, he doesn't look like that. And he also didn't do the thing where, like, the road warriors left, and he just stuck around for another year managing, like, you know, like, whoever, dangerous Danny Spivey or something like that. You know, like, he kind of like, he was with the Road Warriors or he was just out doing it, and whatever he does.

I like those guys. I'm sure, I'm sure it's a very, I'm sure everyone knows this answer. But what do you think Paul Leller-Ring's day job is? I don't know, because he's definitely. not getting paid probably like a living salary and I don't know how much these guys make all right I found a what culture article entitled from one day ago entitled 10 things you didn't know about Paul Ellering oh my god I can't believe there's 10 uh we'll see about this let's see he said number 10 he set a deadlift power or a deadlift world record well I knew that no I'm just

yeah he was a serious lifter he was a buddy of the road warriors before he got injured I remember if that if I remember correctly. And that's how he became their manager. So he could have been a wrestler. So number nine, he started out as a wrestler but retired after a knee injury. It's crazy, though, the thing about the knee injuries, because in that day and age, that's when, like, football players and basketball players would get the career-ending knee injuries and then become wrestlers because the wrestling was the thing you could do with,

like, you know, with, like, half of a ligament. Not anymore. He was the Road Warriors manager in more ways than one. Oh, yeah. So you talked about, you talked about. talked about Paul Heyman and Brock Lesner. The one thing he actually has in common with Paul Ellering is that they were legit manager.

They were shoot managers of their K-Fabe talent. Yeah. I mean, it's unclear how Tideyman is, but he's clearly more involved in Brock Lesnar's life. It's just so crazy how wrestling is real. You know, like, hearing those stories about how Paul Barry used to take our undertakers travel. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's so strange that's real.

And the funny thing is it does, like, I remember I wrote this in one of my first piece is when I was writing about Hawk of the Road Warriors, that the most important thing that Paul Ellering provides in K-Fabe terms is the answer to this like the one, like just the kind of, the kind of tricky questions that are just kind of dancing around the edge of your brain. It's not, it's not just like, why do you hit him with that chair? But like the more interesting questions, like, do the road warriors have a checking account? You know, like you just know.

But the character of Paul Ellering is like, you know, he solves that problem. How many Delta Miles has Hawk earned? Exactly. My dad actually saw Animal on a plane one time. The number seven. Oh, I saw Chris Jericho's dad on a plane one time. We talked for a while. Do you recognize him?

He saw, I was, I was a coach on using my boingo and watching old Jericho and Austin promos. And he came up to me and he goes, you know, I'm Chris Jericho's. And I didn't know he was like a big time New York Ranger. Oh, yeah. He's a famous dude. He's a famous dude. And we just talked for a while.

I was like the nicest guy ever. That's so great. I can't believe that he's actually that he walks up introducing him as that was Chris Jericho's dad Yeah I think he's He looked to seem genuinely proud And then I brought up Fossey

And he got less proud But he was really proud He's like that's a bunch of bullshit that band He just took to what he's good at He's like yeah then he becomes like Yeah the one of the dads from Friday Night White's or something The Fossey is a really great lane for Jericho though Because in like whenever they started the band

Like within a couple of years They were just automatically one of the five best hardcore bands or heavy metal bands in the country. Were they? No, not, but as far as... Do I have to start shilling for Fossey? No, I just mean that like that, like the market, like the audience, I mean, whatever, the, the heavy metal in pop culture just evaporated.

So as long as they're like, as long as they have the backing of a, of a semi-famous person who's like their lead singer. I mean, I think it's... They're doing all these big festivals and stuff. I get, you know what it is? I think if you're like an old heavy metal guy, you're like, all right, yeah, I just, I really love wrestling, so I'll have this guy open for me so I can talk wrestling and... Hell asked me.

about my, you know, like, Triple H just got an award. Oh, he just got an award from like Lemmy. Like the Lemmy and Dorrance, I don't know, I don't know what. There's a Lime Award. He named a Lemmy Award after him that he got at like a metal festival in Europe or something. That was the big wrestling news this week. I'm sorry, I totally missed that. Oh, you missed that?

I'm going to keep going through these Ellering facts. He was in the first war games match. I don't think that counts as a surprising fact. I mean, he was in WWW during the attitude era. Okay, what culture? You're living up to all my expectations. Okay, number five, he's stock market savvy. Let's see.

Oh, there we go. Maybe that's... He was called Precious Paul Ellering, but the precious Appalachian had nothing to do with appearance. It was based, and it was instead based on the fact that Ellering was an investor in precious metals and the stock market. Precious metals sounds like a real Alex Jones thing to get invested. Yeah, that's really, really strange.

Also, for, like, a stock market savvy for pro wrestling just means you know a guy. at E-Trade and you haven't lost all your money. Well, this was way before E-Trade. He carried that rolled-up newspaper to the ring because that's where his stock info is coming from. During house shows, you could just read it. Yeah, and actually, speaking of E-Trade, you're absolutely right.

When he returned to WWE in 98, his persona was, he was updated with the nickname Mr.com, referring to the then popular habit of buying internet domains and flipping them for a profit. What a shitty gift. This is the strangest thing I've ever heard. Oh, man. Instead of IRS, he's like, eminent domain, Eddie, or something.

You're just like, what? IRS is a pretty terrible gimmick, too. I mean, if you're sitting in a pitch room, I'm saying. If you are, but that guy ran with it. I mean, that was a great gimmick for Microtund. Well, what is it? Microtunda. Mike Rotunda is one of the name misspelled in actual graphics on the screen,

All-Stars. Like, back in the late 80s, early 90s, there were a number of people. Like, I know, like, Kurt Hinnig, Mr. Perfect. back in his indie, before he was with WWE, it was just like, put, Hinning was on the screen

all the time. And his dad was a famous wrestler, so, like, there was not really any explanation for that. I feel like they just got prompter guys from the venue, though, that day, you know.

Oh, yeah. They just nobody, nobody proofreaded. I mean, they went as close to live as you could go with tape, you know? They're not,

they're not, like, running any kind of final, I mean, final cut or anything, uh, on that, okay, well,

I'm sorry. My, our internet is totally stalled out, so. It's all right. What culture is facts will have to wait for more. What culture? What culture?

It just stalls. The viruses are taking over too much of the download space of the upload space right now. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, there's not actually viruses on what culture. Okay, so let's go back to NXT. Shinski and Nakamura ever. Is Nagamore? He's the greatest ever, right?

I mean, that guy is the most fun person to watch. The reason that you know that Nakamura is great is because of the number of people online and in real life who are willing to admit that they never actually watched him before he got signed by WWE. Normally, if they had just signed Okada or something that he was like very, very good too, everybody would keep pretending

that they watch New Japan all the time. The great thing about Nakamura is everybody is totally happy to be like, dude, I did not understand how good he was going to be. So good. He's really, really great. And I mean, he's the only person like, you know, when I tweet I like to have some spin on it,

but I just tweeted King of Strong stuff. Like I didn't even like put it. I just like tweeted his like that's like tweeting the people's champion. You know? Yeah, exactly. That's how good he is. He's so good.

He's the best thing in wrestling right now, right? He's got to be. He's close. Yeah. I just learned in some like throwaway thing on a message board that that Daniel Brian and Nakamura and and Lioto Machita, former UFC champion, Leo Machita.

Oh, he's my favorite UFC fighter. No, I'm serious. All three of those guys shared an apartment above a UFC gym in L.A. At some point, like, 10 years ago, yeah. It's crazy. I really want to do the oral history of that apartment. Just like, Nakamura was terrible with dirty dishes, man. That was like, that would have been, that would be so much fun.

Well, he used to prepare for magicty would drink a cup of his own urine. That was, but I, like, yeah, he was one of those. He was one of those guys. The Piss Truthers. Like, these people are around. Piss truth. No, there are people that, like, wash their hair with urine. They're same people invest in minerals.

Yeah, it's very strange. Yeah, he, uh, I forget what it was, he was, but I was, basically the bit was like, that only works if you're the best fighter ever. You can't be like, a meet, you can't have like, you can't be like, what's your record? Uh, oh, I'm 50, 50, but I still drink piss. No, I see, it's definitely, you definitely have to be, uh, you have to have to be, like, bullyproof. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, that, I mean, that match is really good. Aries is another one who's funny because, about whether or not he'll ever make it up to the majors. I'm sure that he will, you know, at least in.

passing or whatever, but if, again, as NXT gets bigger and bigger, it's no, it's no slight. If that, if you're a lot in life is to be like a borderline NXT headliner, then like, so be it. Well, it was a weird. The only thing that was a little weird was, uh, he worked kind of face in the beginning of the match. Aries? Yeah.

Yeah. I, I know, I'm, I'm with you on this. Um, and, you know, the other thing is like, he's like such a better version of, um, the vaudevillians almost. Every time I see Austin Arias. Yeah, because of the facial hair. cape and that hair and he doesn't go overboard with it and then he watched the vaudevillians and you're like you guys are a cartoon yeah yeah they're they're thankfully that the tag team division is

vital enough right now that the vaudevillans don't seem like they're totally botching that that that debut but in another but like if it had been three months before now they would already be back on like they'd be on superstars you know they're not they're not hitting they're not hitting the beats quite right um but yeah that i mean that match was i mean it It's so weird that, I mean, I'm sure he's going to start wrestling. I'm sure it's going to kind of even out. We're going to get tired of Nakamura at some point. But it's funny that like two pay-per-views or two NXT specials in,

Nakamura is like the most must-see wrestler in WWE. You know, it's like Brock Lesnar who obviously never fights and Nakamura. Yeah, I mean, he's unbelievable. He's unbelievable. Ashka versus Ashka over Naya Jacks, which was a really weird. I mean, again, talking about like playing face, playing heel. obviously like Ashka was the baby face in peril for this entire match. I haven't seen a big man, small man match or small lady match worked that well in a long time.

Yeah. I mean, it's a real, I was, it's interesting how well it went over, right? I mean, it was in some ways just a very traditional match, but there's something, actually one of the sort of great accidents or novelties of the women's division right now is that since they, I mean, they've come so far in such a short amount of time that there's, I mean, that they almost have a blank slate. Like, they can go back to wrestling 101 or they can go back. They could just like, they could just rework, you know, a totally Blancher Dusty Rhodes match or

whatever and just like, like, step for step. And like, everybody would just be like, that's the greatest thing ever. And it would be, you know? Yeah, I mean, it was, it was so, they were so, that match was so fun for me. Yeah, it was, I thought that was really good. And the, and, and, uh, to have, Aska, like, get the win, I mean, and still, I mean, like, I just assumed by halfway through that match that that Nia Jackson was going to win and that was it and like, we're going to just like get ready for

the rematch. But they, they booked it really well. Now this can stretch out longer and longer if they were. It reminded me of the Princess Bride when a Carrie Elways or whatever. Cariolis, I just watched it last week. Oh, really? Yeah. He's like trying to make Andre tap out, you know, the whole time. Oh, yeah. I really enjoyed the match. That was a great Andre the Giant performance. It's such a weird movie. Apparently he would make people like watch it all the time. Yeah. I've heard that too.

He was very, when he came back from making it, he would just like grab people, like grab people basically, you know, just kind of jovialy by the back of the neck and make them. He would watch it like 30 times a day. I guess that's not possible. But. The trick is wine. It's a weird movie. I mean, I love the movie as a kid and I just watched it. I'm just in an Airbnb since I just moved to L.A.

And so I'm just like, there's no television. So I'm just watching just to have noise in the apartment. I'm just watching movies from the 80s. You know, just kind of nonstop. Because if you get more, if you get into the 2000s, I feel like if I want to watch them, I should sit down and watch them, you know, like it's kind of making a choice. But there's like Eddie Murphy nonstop. I watch in Ventures.

48 hours. Yeah, oh yeah. Adventures in babysitting was shockingly good. It's good background music. Yeah. But yeah, the Princess Bride. I remember I was watching it and I'm just like, this was not like an indie film. Like, this was a real film.

Yeah. And it was, it must have been fairly popular at the time. I remember, like, every kid I knew liked it at the time, at least like a year. later when it came out on VHS. I remember my parents, bro, it was one of those videos. They're like, all right, right, sit down, you're going to like this movie. And they were right. Yeah, it was really, really good. I wonder if there were just a lot.

I guess I was wondering why there weren't more things like the Princess Bride. But there probably were. There's terrible versions of it. They were really bad at ripping things off in the 80s. Well, I think, like, you know, never-ending story is like almost like, I like it, but it's a little poor man's Princess Bride.

That's true. Never-ending story. And then you can kind of get in the Disney stuff, like the Labyrinth or whatever. There were some of those. There were more like kind of crossover. Princess Bride is the pinnacle. I mean, my personal favorites of Willow, but it willow is still not as good as Prince's Brad. Willow is terrible.

Willow is trash. This is my hot take of the week. And then the most of those, it's in the top five, though. Top five. Yeah. Speaking of speaking of like hyper-talented, magical little people, Finn Baller lost at NXT to Samoa Joe.

That finish. Holy good God, that muscle buster off the top of the cage. It was a ballsy move considering the muscle buster has like put one, has ended one person's career. He's not quite at a styles clash level, but like, and don't get me wrong, Samoa Joe did, like, you know, the consensus is there was no problem with, with, you know, that early match he had with Tyson kid that hurt Tyson. Like that was just a freak accident, but, wow.

Not according to Brett Hart. Really? He just like every time someone injures somebody, he goes on social media and he's like, yeah, it was that guy's fault. And you're like, shut up, Brett. That's really crazy. He did that with Seth Rollins too, where he's like, Seth Rollins broke seat in his nose. He shouldn't have done that.

It's so strange. Like, why is this Brett Hart's Lane? Like, why is he interested in that? He's like Quinny Swiss character in Grand Torino of wrestling. That's just, that's it. There's no other joke. make. That's totally right. Is our internet actually out?

Or is it just my computer? I just have too many windows open. All right. Well, thankfully, I don't really need the internet to talk about wrestling. I have like 40,000 internet windows open. That's the Mojo-Fin-Ballar match was really, really good. Great match. Do you think that we're, it was one of the few, I feel so weird over-hyping. I feel like I risk over-hyping NXT every time I talk about them. Yeah.

Because I think a lot of it does have to do with the arena or the venues that they run and the quality of the film. It's just a little, you know, it's significantly different. Well, significantly is a weird word, but it's different than what we're used to saying on raw or on the paper views. That, the cage match felt so much more intimate and immediate and vital. It felt like like a 1989 NWA cage match in a certain way, you know, but maybe that was just the setting. It was the film. I don't know. But that match just felt so much just like, you know, I've talked five million times about the freebirds and the Von Erick's.

And that, I mean, that's not, the filming wasn't the same. I mean, the film, you know, if you go back, if you watch those freebirds with that, that famous Carrie Von Erick Rick Flair Cage match where the Von Erick's turn, I mean, where the freebirds turn on the Von Erick's. I mean, it looks like there's a Pruder film, you know. It's just like the camera is like 45 yards away and it's grainy as hell and whatever. And that's part of why it looks so real because it's like. Like, man, someone's getting murdered, I think, in the background. I can't quite tell. But the...

I think there's some stylistic things they do in the beginning. Like, they did the spotlight on Joe and Baylor in the beginning. And it's all dark. It almost looks like somebody's about to sing cabaret or something. But it looks... It does. They set it up. They set themselves up for success.

The... You know that I hate Finn Baller's entrance, his pay-per-view entrance. Or his big show entrance. That one. Yeah, it's just two... It's two degrees. to community theater. That's what I always say.

It's just so it's just a little bit too much. It's like when you go to the Jekyll and Hyde restaurant. Exactly. I like, no one listening to this has any frame of reference with it. But you can imagine it's exactly what it sounds like. But anyway, yeah, so that, I mean,

that was a great car. Did you watch the Breaking Ground special that came on out, did they aired afterwards? No, I didn't see that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you watch that and we'll either discuss it on a future show

or, you know, over some soda pops at some point in the not too distant future. But it was really, really cool. It was like a, I think it was sort of the launch for season two of breaking ground or sort of like whatever that is. There was a great, the greatest moment though, it's well worth watching for anybody that wants to see it. But it's kind of the last six months of NXT are all sort of crammed into this one thing. And it shows Nakamura making his, making his like debut at WrestleMania weekend.

First of all, it has him in Triple H walking around the arena before the show with Triple H is sort of like telling him his ideas. is and the communicating when like i think there's how is how good is this english it wasn't on the show i don't know if they're k-fabing it he does use a translator like when he's doing interviews and stuff yeah so i don't know this is like the yow ming thing where he just like uses a translator because he's just like a little bit socially awkward yeah exactly uh but yeah i mean but yeah so but he and triple h were seemed to be communicating or he or at least he was just going out of his way to make it look like you understood triple h because that's his boss but there were triple h is sitting backstage in whatever the NXT equivalent of the gorilla position is,

which seemed to be like a folding table and a headset. You know, I mean, it was very minimal. But he was there, he was sitting back there when Nakamura came out for the first time. And I was, you know,

I was there in the audience. It was an insane moment. That music, I mean, I listen to his theme and AJ Styles' theme, like, legit, just,

I think they're good. I can't believe we had some question about whether or not you were a crazy wrestling fan earlier on this podcast, when in fact, you're listening, you're like listening to wrestlers theme songs on the treadmill.

I listen to I was I do war I write for not safe with the UASER but I also do warm up for our live shows and beforehand I listen to AJ

styles of theme music to like get yourself going you know you're like Bill Simmons you're like Bill Simmons's son who walks into every room

doing the AJ Styles intro now this is really great but yeah the greatest moment of that breaking ground was Triple H sitting backstage watching Nakamura came out

he watches Nakamura come out and then he like turns to like the cameraman or whoever is in the next room And he's just like, well, I guess if they're holy shitting his intro music, that's a good sign. You know, and it was just great.

I love holy shitting being used as like an actor. He's apparently a really funny guy offstage. Triple H. I've heard from people who have worked for him. Yeah. I don't know if he's like, there's a couple guys who are like, like legit funny. Like Batista, I think Jericho is legit funny, like, you know, outside of it. You know, there's a couple of guys who are.

But I hear Triple H is like really in conversations. Jericho was, I think I said this before when we interviewed him on cheap. Pete, like, didn't seem, like, he was an incredibly good guy. I'm not saying he was, like, a jerk or anything, but, like, he was doing a press tour. Like, you could tell he would rather be, he would rather have been home. God does a lot of stuff. Yeah, but, like, he wasn't, it wasn't like Rosenberg texted him and he was like, hell yeah, I'll do your podcast.

Like, he was there as part of doing, like, a media blitz. Right, right, right, right. It wasn't the happiest day of his life, I'm sure. But, man, but he was incredibly, like, just on and funny despite being, like, I mean, he's, like a legit funny guy. And maybe I'm nervous because I've made a fosy joke and I'm afraid he's going to beat me out. Oh, he's going to come beat the shit out of you. But strangled me with a scarf.

You know, okay, so is there anything else that we need to touch on? I mean, that was the NXT was really good. Now, I guess there's only one thing left to do, and that's make our picks for money in the bank. Can I just, before we start talking about Cesarro's intro of Jericho, which he called him like an idiot from Moronville. It was like the lameest thing. And I love Cizaro. But that was like the, it was like when in Naked Gun 2, when he goes, hello. Mr. Poopi Pants, but it was like a legit version of that.

It was like crazy. Dan is not reading off of any kind of like script here. That was actually, that was just a straight out of the naked gun reference off the top of his head. Yeah, I told that was that's exactly right. It was so lame. Cizaro needs to, okay. He shouldn't be doing comedy. Well, we talked about, but we watched that 2005 money, the first ever money in the bank match,

which was at WrestleMania, uh, in WrestleMania 2005, which is, WrestleMania 21. Perfectly set up Edge is like a monster heel because they recreated WrestleMania 20 that moment, you know, were Benoit, you know, Benoit, who's, you know, wrestling Selena. He was joking, but he was like going up. He was a terrible. He was sorry. That was terrible. RAP.

But he was going up, he was going up the ladder. And it was almost like that WrestleMania 20 where everyone's rooting for Benoit. And then Edge just comes in and hits him with a chair and then grabs the, like you set it up, like this isn't the doing stuff. like deftifying stun edge. This is like I'm just a dirty player in the game. Yeah, I think there were people that were making, if not, then I was just saying it out lot of people, but the Daniel Bryan, Chris Penwa, parallel, again,

let's not get into the Crispinua craziness, but like tragedy. But the, but, but the, Daniel Brian, by all accounts, way better husband. Yeah, it's right. Everything that I've heard, you know, some rumors backstage, it seems like he's an actual nice guy. He actually is the nicest guy in the world. But the, and Bree is like, I mean, I think people just only know about her from.

I think I think total divas fulfills everybody's just sort of vague expectations of her. She's actually the one of the sweetest people. I've only met her a couple times. But like, you know, she knows Rosenberg pretty well. And Rosenberg, for all of his pomp, is like one of the sweetest human beings and is only friends with truly sweet people. But yeah, anyway, the, what was I talking about? Oh, the, that 2005 match. There was a lot of parallels between Chris Benoit.

and Daniel Bryan right at that period because they both had their giant shining moment at WrestleMania and then a year later we're in a we're lost or we're not lost well we're in ladder matches yeah but yeah no it does it they definitely have been lost by winning that's true he did win he did win um he did win it was it's crazy that's his last WrestleMania match yeah that was a good match it was a really good match um but yeah the 05 thing i mean it's interesting it was interesting to see the difference between edge between 05 and 2010. Yeah. He was much more of a grizzled.

He was better in 2010. Was clearly on a different workout regimen in 2010. He looked, he was not on the same, he was not working out with the same level of, no, of supplements and intensity as he wasn't. I think people forget how good edge was because Seth Rollins is almost a better version of edge in a lot of ways. That's a hot take.

Yes, I want to cause internet. their internet controversy, but I mean, that's just my personal opinion. Edge was a better, Edge was a better natural heel than I think he or anybody employed by WWE quite realized. Yeah. I mean, and that's, I'm not, that's not knocking him. He was, he was going, he was headlining against Sina for, for 18 years, you know, like it wasn't like it was any sort of mystery.

Well, it was like the whole thing with him hooking up with, uh, Lita. Lita, although, like, look at wrestling's history and you're like, not that healish of a thing to do backstage when you can. consider some of the other stuff that you hear. Oh, no, no, no, no. You're like, everybody's hooking up with everybody. That was the beginning, though, of, like, really the smart fan, the smart fan takeover of wrestling. I think I wrote about that.

The, the, bring back Matt Chance were the first, like, open revolt that I could, that I mean, in the modern wrestling world, right? Yeah. When every single person in the arena was aware of what, like, the dirt sheets were reporting. Well, it's so interesting about that feud, too, is, like, it almost, like, proved that they were better than the company. I know that, you know, Matt Hardy basically his girlfriend fucks. I don't know if I'm a lot of curse.

I don't know if you can talk about it. You can say that. But yeah, you know, like, whatever. But because of that, it was like the best thing that could have happened from cheating because both of those guys were like, oh, these are like legit. This is like a little, maybe not in main event dudes, but they're a legit draw on the card. I wonder if we're going to get to a point where wrestlers start working the companies.

Like if, like if wrestlers. Hogan's been doing that at his whole career. Yeah, and not very well. But, like, is it worth the bump your career would get if, like, you know, Zach Ryder and whoever have, like, you know, Zach Ryder and, and Kofi Kingston, like, have, like, a love triangle with somebody backstage just for, like, the bump it will give their careers when it leaks out if it leaks onto the screen as well. It's a big risk because if it doesn't, then your girlfriend just cheated on you.

Well, I'm saying it's a fake. No, if you do a fake love triangle, but like everybody is, but we're not just working the fans. We're not just working the dirt sheets. We're working our bosses to make them think that this is a real thing. In a lot of ways, man, all life's at work. Oh, that's so true. Yeah. So let's run through, I mean, we'll run through this and touch back on those old money in the bank as we get to the match.

I think one of the biggest standout moments for me, one of the biggest standout things from, from Raw, this week was, oh, I mentioned the uncertainty angle. We don't know where Shane and Steph are going to go. It's crazy that Ambrose kind of took precedence over Raines and Rollins in that, and I mean, he was the last man standing in the Ambrose Asylum, is that what it's called? Yeah. That segment.

And then Paige winning against Charlotte. It was sort of like a what the fuck moment. She was, she's like coming back in a big way. Yeah. I mean, she deserves it. She's the greatest female wrestler of all time. Yeah, well, settle down, settle down. But the, but the, but the, but the, the, but the,

But one of the interesting things about Raw and about the past several weeks, the way they've booked this pay-per-view is that they keep saying over and over again that Ron's versus Raines is a WrestleMania caliber match. Last night on Raw, they went overboard saying that like, Sina and A.J. was a WrestleMania caliber match, right? Right. And yet, the money in the bank match is clearly the main event. I mean, they're putting that, it's been the last segment for the past couple of weeks,

maybe for the past month. I don't even remember back that far. Like, they're really putting that over as the main event. So, it's going to be an incredible pay-per-view. It's good. I mean, it has the potential to be really great. So, I mean, it's just interesting to me that there's, like, this is, there's no shortage of hype for this. And for once, God bless Michael Cole, it's almost deserved.

I mean, this is like, this feels like, it. No, it's, I mean, I think it's going to be great, you know. I have some problems with the Sina A.J. build, but I think, you know, we get to see and wrestle. Let's run through the card and we'll get to that. Well, I want, I want your, I want your heel promo on this build then. Uh, the, the, the, the pre-show, there's two pre-show matches. One, Golden Truth versus Bree Zango.

I actually like Bree Zango. I like, I like, I think. Yeah, they were good. Yeah, I like them. Um, you know, it's, it's fun to have, like, a dandy boy tag team. Yeah. And I mean, I like that our truth, I think that our truth, having to change the lyrics to his intro theme song might be like the most difficult, the biggest thing anyone's ever

asked for him in his, like, 20 years of his career. I bet he's really excited about that. Maybe so. He's a really, like, he, he rap, his rapping skill is about on the level of, like, our parents, I feel like, but it's, I, I, I, but I love him. Yeah, well, you try to rap in those Jencos. Yeah, I know, I know, the wind resistance is ridiculous. Apollo Cruz versus Seamus also in the pre-show. Kind of a fun feud.

Yeah, I like that. I don't know, I mean, who do you think is going to win? What's going on with Seamus's chest? Is that ash or chest hair? I have no idea. I didn't even notice. I had a real problem. on a computer screen to maybe I didn't get the full HD.

And then I had a real problem because I was like, ugh, what's going on with his chest? And then I was like, ugh, why don't we have a problem with Seamus's chest? It was like two feelings. I know. I've done like, I did like three tweets about Sammy Zane's chest air situation when he made his comeback. And then I was just like, wow, I'm just too much.

Too much. This is like getting creepy. My editor's stepping in. He's just like, yeah, no more about the chest air, please. Yeah, you feel like a trumpet at a Miss Universe competition or something. It doesn't matter who wins in Apollo Cruz, Jamis, because I have a feeling that's going to be on the paper view next month. Like, it's just, this is one of the... The Baron Corbyn Ziegler.

Yeah. Which is on this car. Baron Cormond versus Ziegler in a Falls Count anywhere match. I mean, I forget you said before where like you like Baron Corbyn, and I do too because he is a legit heel. He's not like Kevin Onger. I mean, I would prefer Dalzigler. Yeah, I like Dol Ziegler.

I would prefer that he'd destroy Baron Corbyn and get, you know, go somewhere. But, you know, this is a fun feud. I'm going to be, like, I think it will actually be interesting. to go back whenever this is over and watch all of their matches and sequence. Zichlor is almost like the Pedro Morales or something of. Maybe not Pedro Morales. He's gotten to a point. It's certainly getting somewhere.

Yeah. Let's see, Rusef versus Titus O'Neill for the U.S. championship. They're bringing, I mean, Titus O'Neill, the biggest push that he could have gotten is that fatherhood commercial in the middle of it.

Yeah. Comes across as the best guy ever. And he just got demolished by Rusef on Monday night. I mean, on Raw. Yeah, Rousseff's great. They're both great. Now, normally that would lead one to believe. old-fashioned wrestling booking that Titus is going to get

the tennis might get the win on Sunday. I'd say Rusev, probably. All right. Right? Yeah. Because then they can do the match again. Let's see.

Wait, what am I looking at right now? I can do the match again either way. Wait. Am I absolutely going insane? What? This is AJ Salis versus Sistine. All of the Wikipedia matches have results. What?

I just thought my, like, I had, I thought it was having like an asset flashback. Apollo Cruz defeated Seamus. Uh-huh. This is not in the result section. This is just in the matches section. The Golden Truth defeated Bree Zango. I don't know if we're spoiling something here.

This is crazy. We're seeing into the future. Really? My eyes are going or like crossing. Kevin Owens will skip to, Kevin Owens wins the money in the bank match. Which is what my prediction is going to be. Yeah.

Rusev defeated Titus O'Neill. Barron Corbin defeated Dolv Ziegler. Uh-huh. Natalia and Becky Lynch defeated Charlotte and Dana Brooke. All this sounds incredibly plausible. Oh yeah, and maybe that's why it's here. The tag team match we have, I'm going to let you pick this.

The club, New Day, Inzo and Cass, and the vaudevillans. I think, here's the thing is, I think New Day just because they want to beat the Paul Wondon Kendrick record. Incorrect, the club wins this match, according to Wikipedia. Now we already know the answer. Actually, I think you're probably right. although that was a kind of a fun four-way promo

that they had on Monday night. Big Cass is a very strange talker. He's very good at talking as half of this tag team, but I don't think he's a good... No, that was so stupid. They tried to give him a push immediately, you know? Yeah, well, you know, Inzo got hurt. I had some friends texting me this weekend

about how Inzo was a future champion. And I... It's so great. Yeah, I mean, it's weird that that isn't a surprise. Like, if you would text me that six months ago... Wrestling because of Enzo. Really? I saw Enzo's promo and he's like, this guy's the best.

Yeah, it's really, really impressive. Kevin Owens' Money in the Bang lottery. Kevin Owens is the winner. I think that the only, I would have said Owens except that Dean Ambrose, the way that he was standing over. They need to hold Embrose in their back pocket as a Royal Rumble winner. Listen, I have anyone else. Because Ambrose, I mean, I give him some, like, criticism for, because sometimes in the ring and stuff like that, it's like, but like, he gets, like, he gets a legitimate, monster face pops when booked correctly.

The biggest problem with the money in the bank briefcase at this point and I'll talk about this more next week is that every single pay-per-view that you watch after the money in the bank paper and including the money in the bank people, you're fantasy booking that person running into the main event.

Yeah. It's impossible. So I almost hope that they just get rid of it on Sunday night. Owens was amazing though running with a suitcase. Yeah. Owens is not a guy that needs to be carrying a briefcase. I mean he can pull it off because like I said he's amazing, but he's not a guy that needs.

Maybe he'll, like, he does everything else. Like, I'll turn it into a Jan Sport backpack or something. He has to be a tough guy. Like, he's got to do something. I've seen some tough dudes with backpacks, man. I guess that's true. And then, let's see what else. So, AJ Styles defeated John Cena, according to this.

With an interference by Finn Baylor. I think if that's what's going to happen, then the bullet club. You think they're calling Finn up. Yeah, which is an awesome way. But Finn and AJ were never buddies. Oh, I guess. But if... With ball club connection, right?

Well, yeah, right. But one replaced the other. I guess my question is, does the... Did the contract that he signed on Monday? By the way, another great unexpected twist. A contract signing that was actually worth having on television. It was cool. He had some options.

Was the contract... It was the fact that he chose... It was like a scene of putting over the whole events. Just put over your feud. Yeah. But it was the fact that AJ signed the contract with just his name on it. Did that mean that the club is banned from ringside? Or is that just a sort of like...

Well, I think that... Well, that's to me the argument. You ban those two from ringside. That's what that makes a lot more sense. But now of WB here's my idea. They may not do it just to spite me, guys. Oh, no. They're happy to steal.

That's fine. And then they should. I mean, actually, it's not thievery. There's only like, there's only like a small set of options here. Yeah. But, you know, just it did the, the Wikipedia page that can see the future does not say anything about Finn Balor. What if it was like the result guy from Reddit and he just like somehow. Dolphins, whatever his name is.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's a, that would be, that would be a really strange use of this WWE employee or a friend of WW employee's time to be like to become a Wikipedia mod just so you can go change this stuff. Talk about the whole, that would be the greatest reveal like the new raw GM reveal. Yeah, I was the guy that was leaking stuff to Reddit. Right.

I don't think it's a bad look. I mean, it's at least for like a marketing director. It's like people cared about WWE online for like the whole day of the payper view. This is really, this is a great call. Who do you think could leak it and not get fired? Justina? What is the highest ranking person? I mean, clearly, like, I'm like, man or, like, at top.

You think Sina would get fired if they found that he was legally? Absolutely not, no. And that's the only person. I don't even know if he would get formally suspended because most of their suspensions that are fine seem to be public relations measures, you know, just like, we're going to, like, the Titus O'Neill thing was more of, like, a, we're setting a precedent that you can't do this sort of thing on TV, sending a message to the other guys in the back. But, like, if they found out it was Sina, don't you think they would just call him in?

Just be like, literally, dude, you connect. never do this again or it's going to be a huge problem. But like it's better, it's better if nobody knows, you know? It's way better if nobody knows. And then the last match of the night, we got to put a cap on this podcast, but I can't believe it's already been an hour. But Roman Raines and Seth Rollins ends in a draw, according to Wikipedia. How do you think it's going to end?

Is it a draw? What is that? They both pin each other at the same time? No, I think it's just a time. I don't know. Maybe double count. Maybe they brawle the back and then they just got to call. That makes that.

That's a great booking decision. Yeah. Because then you don't like have wrong. Yeah, that's a great booking decision. Are they doing like something before SummerSlam? They have to. Is there another pay-per-view? Yeah.

Yeah. On the new schedule, they're actually going to have seven pay-per-views between now and SummerSlam. They're having seven elimination chambers until SummerSlam. Yeah, I don't know what the, yeah, battleground is the next one. No, no. Yeah, that's right. Battleground is the next paper view. So that'll be.

they'll definitely do some more stuff. I think that they, Roman Reins versus Seth Rolins could be your SummerSlam main event. Well, we'll probably do Lesnar versus Reins, right? Or like a... Oh yeah, I guess Lesnar is coming back.

But if Lesnar... Are they going to book Lesnar in the main event with the potential that he might lose at UFC 200 and then be... I think the smartest thing would be, like you could create a new start because if he loses or if he wins, either one. His opponent at UFC, I forget his name. Mark Hunt.

Then coming, because he's like kind of like in his twilight years of year. By the way, I kind of, I gave, I think I gave short shrift to Mark Hunt on this podcast last week. The case that I was making is of the, of the people who have name recognition in the heavyweight, UFC heavyweight division. He's the, he was probably in my, in my estimation, the easiest guy for, amongst the easiest guys for Lesnar to get. It wasn't going to get, the road's not going to get any easier for him. Well, I mean, that's what you should, right?

But I talked to, I talked to, I talked to Ariel Hwani. I talked to some other people. There are people who are scared of Mark Hunt. He's in great shape. He's scary looking. He can knock anybody out with one punch. Yeah. This is a real thing.

He just looks like the guy you don't want to mess with in Florida or something. Or in Huntington Beach. I mean, that's the, yeah. Yeah, it's going to be an interesting fight. It would be really great. But why would WWE sign Mark Hunt? That's what I'm thinking. I said it last week.

He'd be the perfect guy. That's right. Maybe I'm asking I listened to it. I just stole from you. Yeah. The problem is that I had various people text messaging me this week saying they already have Mark Hunt and it's either Samoa Joe or Kevin Owens. Like, you know, they don't need a different guy.

Well, he would immediately. make Marka... Like if he beat Lesner and then interfered, he, like, Samoa Joe would be stuck in I agree. NXD forever.

What if they actually did an angle where Samoa Joe, where they told, you know, Samoa Joe came out and said, I'm going to be at UFC 200. And Shane or Stephanie, wherever it was, came out and said, if you, like, if you win at UFC 200,

you're in the main event at SummerSlam. And if you lose, you're fighting Zach Ryder on the pre-show. Oh, my God. Like, they're not that, but like, they could, like, they could actually do, like, a choose your own adventure

where his victory or loss at UFC has a bearing. They have to like, that's the thing if he, it's a weird thing where if he wins, he has to go over. But if he loses, he has to lose, right? Because Vince can't have him

lose at UFC and lose the main event. Rehabilitating Brock Lesner is about the easiest task in the world, but you can't do it in the amount of time between 200 and SummerSlam. So yeah, it'll be a very interesting, it'll be an interesting thing. We've got to get, I mean, Haman and him have to break up again, right? I mean, they did it too fast the last time around, but now I feel like...

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I could see a Brock Lesnar without Heyman, but like, unless you're actually going to F5, Heyman, like, through a table five times, I don't know what the... I don't know. From what I hear, Stephanie would have no problem with that. Heyman might have a problem with that. Hamon's spine might have a problem with that.

But, yeah. Well, I really appreciate whoever edited the money in the bank, uh, Wikipedia page. It's so believable that I'm thinking that that that's... how it ends. Well, I think that... How is it not on like Bleacher Report yet or something?

Well, it might be. I mean, by the time that we actually, if I had the internet, I could tell you all about it. But thankfully it was on that page before it happened. The, I think this is just a, my computer is terrible situation. Yeah.

Somehow we're going to have to get by without knowing the last six facts about Paul Ellering. Tune in next week for us reading. We're going to have so many, we're going to have so many facts left over. That next week's show is going to be just. really incredible. Any parting thoughts about

about Raw about NXT, about money in the bank? I'm welcome forward to the paper you Sunday. Are we doing the live streaming thing on Sunday? I have no idea what we're going to do on Sunday. Don't spoil it for everybody, but we might be around. Okay, cool.

Yeah, I don't know that was a big reveal. No, I know. I'm excited for the pay-per-view, man. I think it's going to be, I think it's Money in the Bank pay-per-view. I mean, like, I still think for my money, the best pay-per-view was the 2011, like in a long time,

one where CM Punk won the money in the bank. So I'm excited to have no money of the bank, but he beat Sina in Chicago. Money in the bank, and the money in the banks over the years, and we saw this in the 2005, the 05 that we watched, we saw this in 2010. And I think it's every time. The ending is always a little bit of a letdown, you know? Because they always, for a good reason, they always slow it down a little bit. So you get to enjoy that last climb up the ladder.

But when you slow it down, you just, as a viewer, you're expecting that someone's going to come and do something and that's why they're going slowly. The last couple has been what, Seamus was a letdown. Randy Ord, which is, oh, so sorry.

Oh, my God, he's falling asleep right now. Jesus Christ. Randy Orton, which was a, I mean, it ended up being the greatest thing ever because it set up that whole Daniel Bryan runs.

I really enjoyed it, yeah, but the win was very strange. I think I was running for Grantland and put him in like the like 0% chance of winning. Sandow was cool. That was cool when he won, but then that ended up turning into

not great form. my guess. The now indie, the current indie wrestler Damien Sando. Yeah. There hasn't been, what's your favorite, what do you think your favorite actual money in the bank match was? I mean, honestly, that 05 match was really, really good. It was really good.

The fact that, I mean, just to see them, I told you I wanted to watch the first one specifically because I wanted to hear Michael Cole trying to explain money in the bank, but it was king. Or was Michael Cole there too in 05. Who did it? I don't know. I think it was Jim Rosson. Jim Rosson and Jerry Wolow.

I was trying to think. thing of Cole was just randomly there too was in that period but anyway it was just standing in the corner for a contract just to hear yeah to hear to hear J.R. explaining the money in the bank or just to hear the announcer explaining the premise to a totally just like I thought there was going to be like a video package beforehand

but they just explained the premise and then had it happened just had everybody run the match and it was watching these wrestlers like fill it like pulling all these like ladder stunts they've only heard about you know or like just trying out all this different stuff it was Shelton Benjamin was doing stuff that nobody else was doing that was that was Shelton Benjamin was the reason

that those matches existed basically. He could do so much cool stuff. And then something happened. He got the yips and nothing was ever the same again. But yeah, I mean, those matches were super cool. I mean, I don't think there's anything better than that. O5. I mean, some of it's really hard.

Because he did that, he did his finisher to. Which one? I like the one or Mr. Kennedy one because he did the finisher to Hornswoggle off the top of the ladder. Oh, yeah. And then they had the cool next night where he's like, I'm cashing in at WrestleMania and and then cut to like four months later when Edge beats him in a match for it. Oh yeah, because he got hurt, right?

Yeah, and I think it was like backstage stuff. You're just a Mr. Kennedy, Mark, because he was on your other podcast. He was one of my, he was the only wrestler that was on my other podcast.

Guys, thank you so much for listening this week. Money in the Bank this weekend. It's going to be, it's going to, thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. It was fun.

We'll watch it together on or offline. And the, and I mean, it's going to be, you know, a WrestleMania level pay-per-view. That's right. Well,

this, I don't know if you knew this, but this was a WrestleMania level podcast. Really? Well, this episode. I'm putting myself over. I really appreciate you saying that, man. It felt good to me too.

Thanks to the ringer for hosting this wonderful thing. Yeah. Hey, follow me on Twitter at Dea S. Germain. And I have a website. I also co-host two other podcasts, the Not Safe Podcast. Mydom is my website. It's all my live dates. I'm popping myself.

And also, I'm doing a Randy Savage roast next Tuesday. He's dead, right? Yeah, we're just going to, we're bringing out the urn or, no, I mean, like, they do a historical roast for dead people. They're doing one at Nerdmelt for Randy Savage. Okay. So, I might have to check this out. Where is it? It's going to be at the nerd meltdown.

Oh, it's here in L.A. It's here in L.A. Oh, wow. So it's, I could put you on the list, David. No charge. I would love that. I could even, I have a $40 credit. Wait, I don't know.

I don't need more. I thought I had 40-hour credit for comic books there. They have a couple of experts. This is the perks of hosting a wrestling podcast. Exactly. I can be on the list for it to watch people make jokes about a dead dude. You get to see all my Cocoa Beware jokes. Oh my gosh, I've heard a lot of your Cocoa Beware jokes.

Not good. Prime material. Prime material. You can follow me at David Chewaker on Twitter. Check out the ringer.com. It's a website that exists and it's really awesome. I've been like doing the art direction and doing a lot of the actual art for it. It's great.

That's really. You're the Renaissance man of the dot-com era. Yeah, I'm no precious Paul Ellering, but I'm, I'm okay. You know, I do it. Have a good weekend, humanoid. Enjoy money in the bank.