The Press Box - Ep. 140: 'Bachelorette Party' With Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: June 28, 2016

The Ringer's Juliet Litman and Mallory Rubin discuss Chase and Derek's two-on-one date with JoJo. Then, they talk about the scene featuring a live singer's melodramatic rendition of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" after Derek's dismissal. Later, they debate the merits of being serenaded by a piano player versus a guitar player and talk about why more NFL families should be on reality TV. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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To start using Seekek, download the free Seekek app or go to Seekek.com. And now it is time for Bachelorette Party. Welcome to Bachelor at Party. I'm Juliet Litman. And today I am joined by one of the stars of HBO's After the Thrones, Miss Valerie Rubin. Oh, Juliet, you're going to make me blush. Well, you're big time. I can't believe I landed you for this podcast. You know that being here with you is always the greatest honor not only of my day and my week, but of my life. So thank you, as always, for the invitation.

The honor is mine. Big week, Mal. We're going to go in reverse order because I want to talk about Jordan Rogers. I want to talk about Wells, who I'm going to miss. But we need to go straight to the two-on-one date, which was the final date of the episode. Chase and Derek were on a date with Jojo. First of all, she looked banging in this. I'm really attracted to Jojo. It's uncomfortable. She's beautiful. She wore a lot of dresses this week that really accentuated her best assets. Yes, definitely. She was wearing this like very, it looks, honestly, the dress itself was like a white dress that like looked like it could have been from Zara. It probably was like much more expensive. It was a trashy dress. I'll just throw it out there. But she just looked great. I just, she's so hot. She's beautiful. I wish she'd wear less makeup, though. I'm so sick of it.

I thought she might try to wear the same kind of dress that the tango instructor wore, which is like cut just super. straight to the baby making region. It's great for a two-on-one-one date. It's super awkward. So they go on a tango date. She's so clearly not into Derek at all, like at all. She hasn't been into him since their one-on-one date early in the season. I suspect that he was fairly innocuous and kind of normal, and that's why he got to

stick around. But there were a couple moments where I was like, oh, she's just dreading this. Like, she just wants to get away from this guy. He got a really rough edit. Really, really rough edit. Really, really rough edit. But the kind of rough edit that I'm thankful for as a viewer because I'm like, they are just so clearly telegraphing the outcome here that I can let go on my stress. I can let go of trying to prognosticate and I can just watch this train wreck unfold.

She really reminded me of like anyone who is like forced to be in like a one-on-one position with someone they just have no interest in. Not even like sexually, but just like holistically. Like doesn't even want to talk to him. She was just like, there was one moment where she just kind of like knew that she was, she was breaking, like, her, like, disinterest was breaking out. And so then she really overcompensated by being like, I'm so happy you're here. Like, it's so great to see you again. Why does she say to him?

I really feel like we had like the strongest connection right off the bat. Is that like complete bullshit? Yeah, that was a lie, I think. I didn't see it at all. They have no chemistry. They have no connection. Not at all. He seems like kind of like a cyborg, actually.

He's very strange. So they try to trick us, but she so obviously wasn't into him. But anyway, they go through this whole thing where she tells Chase that she just wants him to open up. She's been in his position before. You know she's not picking Chase because she was like when I was with Ben, I didn't tell him how I felt. If you're willing to mention your so-called X, it's just not happening with this new guy. And not only did she bring up Ben, she was like, if I have. had only done this differently, we could be together now.

She's not over bed. What? That's insane. I actually think this is like a little bit unprecedented. On other reality shows, they don't like it when the contestants discuss previous seasons. It's kind of like each season's supposed to be in a vacuum. And obviously the Bachelor and The Bachelorette worked best within a vacuum because it's so far-fetched and unrealistic. And her repeated references to her like obviously deep emotional trauma with her.

Ben is conspicuous. It comes up almost every week. She's not over it. Right. She's not, she's not over it, but it's also like that is her identity. Yeah. Which is kind of a bummer. Great. I'm so glad you brought this up. A friend of mine, Shannon, pointed out that she was like, I just don't think I know Jojo at all. Like we haven't gotten to know her at all. All we see is the guys who suck. And that's a really good point. There's been so little about who Jojo is this season. And we really could use it because these guys are losers. I mean, they're usually losers anyway. But like, Caitlin was very sexual and that was her identity. But that was exciting because that was kind of like a new frontier. Jojo, I was, I thought she was going to be like another like sex kitten

type of bachelorette. But she's just like, she's bummed out. She misses Ben. And I just want to say, I would too. Like not only because I once had a crush on Ben, but because like that sucks. Like she thought she, Ben broke the rules with her. He was like, I love you. And she was shocked by it. And she's obviously still very upset. And this moment she had like a bit of an awakening, right? Where she's like, I can see how this happened to him, which of course is also complete bullshit. I have to assume because she's just interested in Jordan. Like she's interested, obviously, in ripping all of Luke's clothes off and fucking him right there on the couch. But she's only actually interested in Jordan. So when she says that, one of the things about this episode that was sort of disappointing is that it really, for the first time, felt like she was just reciting lines.

Yeah. And going on, like, talking points that a producer had handed her. Her emotion has always in the past actually felt very genuine to me. And throughout this episode, like, every time she should let someone go and she's crying or she's, the voice is cracking. It's like, you don't care. You don't like this guy. You don't feel bad. Right.

We'll get to the Rose ceremony in a minute. but so pushing it over the top. So then ultimately they try to trick you into thinking she's having conflict with Chase, but there's no conflict. And then basically she sends home Derek. And as he's like crying to himself in the limo, Cardinal Sin never cry in your acted interview ever. He was mad at himself. Don't cry.

Yeah, exactly. Don't cry. You don't cry. There's no crying in the limo. Like just save it for off camera. Meanwhile, this woman named Solid Pasta Routi starts singing. the lead ballad of Evita. Don't cry from my Argentina,

and they're in Buenos Aires. It was beautiful. She was very good. It was really great. Stirring, a stirring rendition. Do you think that either Chase or Jojo was familiar with the musical Evita? Chase, literally not a chance. Joach, I could see it.

Because Madonna played Ava Perone. I feel like Jojo is probably fairly culturally aware, at least like pop culturally aware. I think Madonna crosses a threshold for her. I can see her like being really into Madonna and like being really into, you know, like a virgin Madonna. Yeah. And therefore being aware of that her star turn is Ava Perron.

But it doesn't seem that likely. No. Chase's like frame of reference for Argentina is definitely just line on the sea and steak. That's it. He has no sense of anything beyond that. Tough week for Argentina. Really tough week for Argentina. Really tough week for Argentina.

The native son is letting them down. The Messi's going to sue Argentina, right? He's done with the national team. And didn't he say he's... Clue only. Wasn't he threatening litigation of some kind? He's... I think he is, like, facing tax fraud.

Yeah. Is that right? So he's in a like... Counter-said or something? Fight fire with fire position? I don't know. Real tough. Real, real tough.

Also, like, if anyone care about the Copa America, they definitely don't because of the Brexit and the Euro. It's right. It's just like North... Like, the America is just like North, like, the America is just like, just can't win this week. Sorry, Argentina. You're done. So this was definitely the most dramatic note of the season so far. It was the most, like, melodramatic, I'll say, actually, with this singing of the

song. Usually the private concert, I'm just like, it makes me cringe. But this was, this was so absurd that all you could do was, like, basking it. Like, wow, this is the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber on our television right now. And they have no idea. It's beautiful. And then splicing in shots of Derek, just weeping, moments. of course, this very raw, emotional thing for him, moments after his bizarre shift from someone who was reserved, but fairly well spoken to someone who only said damn and freaking. He said freaking like 47 times in his final scene with Chojo's really weird. He needs to have the Mallory Rubin School of Cursing.

Just let those F bombs fly or shit. Let it go. The Ben Affleck School of Cursing. Fuck, fuck, fuck. I can't keep up with Ben. it was pretty it was pretty absurd i'm really glad derrick's gone also um he clearly was running out of clothes because he's been rewearing that one shirt that's like it it seemed like a shirt that he probably got at like kmart or wal or walmart or something it's like a blue shirt that doesn't

have a v collar but it's like a tab collar with white piping and uh it wasn't a bad shirt necessarily but like just not really for television like just like you know nothing about derrick was really for television. Great point. His hair, definitely not for television, his entire demeanor. Did you buy his shift, by the way, this week? Was it just the edit? Like, we're not very far removed from him needing reassurance, right? Which was the big, the big perfuffle when the guys called him out on basically being a wuss and needing Jojo to say to him, like, I like you, you're fine. And this week, he was like, you know, I got this. She's into me. There's no way Chase. I'm sorry that Chase is the one who has to go. I think that, like you said, she was being.

deadlines. He probably was being asked very direct questions in responding to them. I think those interviews are easily, easy to, I don't want to say manipulate, but like perhaps guide. Because if I ask you a very direct question and I've like over the course of five weeks, you've gotten used to speaking into the camera, sort of like, it's almost like easier for everyone involved if Chase or if Chase or Derek like gives the right answer. Right. Or like it's, you know, if you have five weeks to like lead your witness and conversations, then you're going to figure it out, basically. I mean, I think so I think that was probably the edit, but also it seems to me this season,

maybe just because also Caitlin's season and Ben's season were in this world kind of unpredictable. This one has been so much producer intervention in a really obvious way. And it just seems like, I don't know, like maybe that the producers just recognize that these guys were just like not cool. look, that's the only way I can put it. There's not a single one who I'd really want to hang out with. The only one who I'd consider is Jordan. Yeah, Jordan seems like he'd be really fun. Okay. Luke seems like he'd at least be interesting. No, Mallory, he does not seem interesting. Sexually. You don't want to talk to that guy. Can you, like, can you hear his voice in your head? We've been watching him for five weeks. You can. I certainly can. Yeah. Oh, my God. Because he just, he just, soft draw.

I just tune him out. Soft draw. He's a soft draw. He's like, he's, like, he's a little. He's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's weirdly like fashionable. Yeah, I noticed his outfit walking the streets of Argentina and I didn't care for it. The skinny gene fatigue camo thing? Yeah, but he also was wearing a green shirt. I mean, also the camo is like a little too on the nose as a quote unquote war veteran. So I don't really care for Luke.

I mean, I definitely like a pretty man on these shows. But Luke's a little bit too sculpted, a little bit too like a kendall for me. So I see him and like, yeah, he's like obviously very sexual. particularly with Jojo, like the way he was just, like, rasping her. I mean, she's tiny, by the way. He was able to, like, palm her, like, like, a basketball. Like, it was

kind of crazy. Yeah, his entire hand covered, like, her thigh area. But... I did, like, wonder about the circumference of her thigh at that point. I was just, like, can we get a tape measure out here? That... You should... You needed the tape measure for something else in that scene, for sure, because they were really

going at it. That scene needed some sort of, like, parental advisory. I was like blushing watching it. It was really intense. Yeah. I was like, oh, wow. They're really into each other. It was definitely the only moment so far the season that I thought, oh my God, would

Jojo pull a Caitlin? Like, she just wants to have sex with this guy. Why not just go for it? Yeah. She was like, even, she was like, it's crazy. Like, the passion we feel is for each other. I love it. But I mean, but like, Luke doesn't interest me.

Like, sure, to hook up with him. But, like, Jordan, I could imagine, like, hanging out with at a bar for like two shots. Right. Absolutely. And I'm sure. Two shots or two glasses of fine white wine? Because that is apparently his drink of choice, which is insane. Do you think that Jordan, because he's from California, he has like a wine expert?

I'm not going to put it past him. It's definitely possible. I think that Jordan is probably a little more sophisticated than we're giving him credit for. I think so too. So I'm pretty sure Jordan's going to win. There's no other option, right? It's hard to imagine. The only, I actually don't.

don't think Luke is the other option. I think a late charge from Robbie is the only possibility. I wrote him down as my dark horse. Yeah. I think that's the only possibility. And partially just because he was so prevalent in the season preview. Yeah. And he hasn't really gotten much screen time. So it's like, oh, a lot of that is yet to come. I did enjoy him this week. Yeah, he's charming. Yeah. He's charming. He's overly quaffed. That's like a real deal breaker for me. It's over, over quaffing. I agree. However, he has two things working in his favor that I cherish. One, great beard. Two, always wears loafers. Yes. You know how to tell about socks. Even when they were playing soccer in the streets of Buenos Aires. That was, okay, so the group date, as I said, we're working backwards. So

on this group date, they meet her in the street and they basically go to, like, kind of like a pedestrian mall or whatever. She's wearing a great all-black outfit. Really? You know, she's, she's from Dallas, so I don't know how much she really dabbles in fall cityware. I don't, I'm not that familiar with the Dallas climate, but I think that, like, urban city clothes look really good on Jojo, like the short booties, jeans, like a sweater. I just thought she'd like, she looks great. Everything looks good on Jojo, right? Yes. That's the thing. Everything looks good on Jojo. It's mesmerizing and infuriating. It's so unfair. Can I ask you a question about their outfits while we're talking about their outfits? What was your read on the temperature there? Because they were often in long sleeves, occasionally in some sort of outerwear. And yet Wells, which we'll get to later, was like drenched in his own sweat. I kept commenting on the heat. A Wells problem.

Maybe. Okay. Wells is the resident neurotic. I'll go back to that. I thought about this. Thanks for bringing it up. I believe it was mid to late April in the Southern Hemisphere. So that's like, you know, November-ish for us.

Right. It's like football weather. Yeah. Okay. Jordan weather. Jordan should be thriving. So, okay. So they go, they walk around.

They get some, um, some Matte tea, I think, right? Which none of them have heard of before. Or they got Masha tea. think. I don't know like, okay, guys, like, tea is happening here in America. Like, just go to your local tea shop. You've got to have one at this point. You can learn about that. So, okay, Jordan might not know about tea, but we do know he knows about wine. And they do some street soccer, because that's what you do in South America, I guess. Yes. We saw a bribe. We saw a bribe, which I loved. That was great. And Jordan does not win this street soccer. If you, if your Kiron says,

former pro athlete of any kind, you must win every athletic pursuit. There's no excuse. I'm sorry, Jordan. There is no excuse. Fair, though he did probably spend his entire life just focusing on his right arm. It's all about the passing. I guess so. Also, isn't Robbie sort of a... Yes, he's slimmer. That's just different. That's a little different. Like, are you expecting Michael Phelps to like to win some street soccer? I'm expecting Robbie as a swimmer who relies on his feet heavily. for propulsion to have better control of his lower extremities. Maybe if he was wearing sneakers and not loafers. That might have been his problem.

Maybe. So ultimately James Taylor, who's like the least athletic of the bunch, wins this challenge or whatever, this supposedly impromptu street soccer, supposedly. And I hate James Taylor. I just hate him. I have no. Of the five guys on this date were Luke, Robbie, Jordan,

Alex and James Taylor. I would say I categorically hate Alex and James Taylor. Wow. No interest. The rose ceremony must have been very disappointed for you. It was. I mean, I was just like, James Taylor, really? We got to suffer through more of this guy?

I actually liked James Taylor until this week. This was when he lost me. What did he do? I, to this point, had found him very sweet. and endearing and charming in like a kind of shy nerdy way. And I think that compared to the cookie cutter, Kendall, you know, I'm carved from a block of wood chase kind of mold that is so prevalent this season, he was just like, he was interesting and different.

And the music, I know you hate and you're like, put that fucking guitar away. I'm a sucker, so I thought it was sweet. You did? It was just sweet. It was sweet. It was sweet. No. No. It was sweet. There's a time and a place for live music. And it's not when you're just hanging out with your friends. What about when you're in a convertible alone with a date overlooking a beautiful cityscape? It's just so annoying. This week, though, he went from... Wait, sorry. Just a side note. Would you prefer a man at a piano, like, playing for you or, like, a guy who just, like, carries around his guitar and, like, whips it out whenever he deems fit? Um... Because, like, I could totally get down. Like, you know that the video of Grant Hill, his wife? they're like singing together.

That I'm kind of into. Okay. That's interesting. I guess a piano can be like incredibly romantic. Yeah. I mean, have you seen Pretty Woman? Also definitely means the guy is, I can't say that. I can't.

Too high of a risk of my parents listening to this. But this week, James shifted from being sweet and endearing to being like kind of just a loser. Yeah. Right? Like, which I feel bad saying, but he was, he had such little confidence. The way that he was talking. about himself during the market soccer face of this when he kept saying like they're all so handsome I'm not they're all so cool I'm not it's like dude believe in yourself a little bit sing yourself a

song totally give yourself a little musical pep talk right and that's not that's before the bullshit he pulled with Jordan which right absurd totally unacceptable so James Taylor knows that he's he's he's in a point of weakness he's you know he's down three to one in the NBA finals and he he uh instead of suspending Draymond Green, he decides to throw a haymaker at Jordan. Right into the testicles. Yeah. And so he tells Jojo that there's another side of Jordan that she's not seeing. Right.

And that they had an altercation. They had an incident. Right. I don't know if James Taylor told her what it was. We didn't hear James Taylor tell Jojo what the altercation was. It could have been edited out, but I'm going to assume that he didn't tell her because it turned out to be the fucking dumbest or so-called argument that I've ever heard of that There's no way Jojo would have followed up on it had she known what it was.

Well, he did, didn't he say to her, like, we were playing a game. Yeah. Like, he didn't get specific, right? But he's like, we're playing a game. Usually when someone on this show says, I have, you need to know. You need to know the truth. It's like this person has a girlfriend. Yeah.

This person is threatening physical violence against other human beings in the house. Right. Like Chad? Right. This person is like a criminal and a dangerous lunatic. Right. And this was like, this person. Jordan knows the rules of poker.

He just made himself look so bad. Jordan explains, Jordan, I think, may have a rage problem or had one at one point and has learned to contain it because I actually thought that he really wanted to punch James Taylor. Oh, yeah. But he did it. Jordan, I'm proud of you. He just swished that wine.

Yeah. He just, that was insane. So what happened was Jordan and James Taylor were playing poker and they had like a disagreement about the rules of poker. I'm going to assume Jordan was correct here. I don't know why. I'm just going to assume that. So that was their fight.

And this is the second time that Jojo's had to confront Jordan about, like, rumors about him. And I think he's handled it well, but I also think that she just wants to believe in him. Like, she's just decided he's the one. So, you know, when you're in love, you just accept someone's what they tell you. You got to buy in. You accept that that person maybe once cheated on an ex, and you accept that that person knows the rules of poker. Like, that's definitely the exact same thing. It was so bizarre.

The thing that was the weirdest was not. it was just very strangely that James chose to bring that up in the first place, since it is so insignificant and irrelevant, right? But to then, and this was Jordan's issue, was not just that he brought it up, but that he used that as a way to make, to cast aspersions against Jordan's character. Character.

To say, you're entitled. He's entitled. One thing I like about Jordan is he gets it. The only currency you have on this show is like your persona, your character. And it's not like just like, like, you know, like Barack Obama is a man of great character. It's like both Jordan's a man of great character and the character he's playing in this secluded world. And I just feel like Jordan like gets that and he like really reclaimed his own narrative from this loser James Taylor. I thought Jordan handled it remarkably well.

Why are we talking ourselves into Jordan? I love Jordan. Do you really? Yeah, I do. Like, how does the Aaron Rogers factor play in for you? I think weirdly it makes me like Jordan more because I think it would be so easy to be the underachieving failure in that family. But she is? Yeah, to be like a total wreck or a dick as a result. Like major tip on your shoulder? Yeah, he's like pretty chill. You know, I guess he can be a little bit, as you said, like, ragey and intense in these moments.

But like, he's fairly laid back. He's fairly normal. He actually sort of said this in this episode, but it does seem that he has not really been a snob. He's tried to fraternize with the other guys in the house. He seems well like. He seems fairly popular. And that was the other thing that bothered him, right? He's like, James was my friend.

Yeah. I feel betrayed by my friend, my friend James Taylor. Oh, my God. Jordan, I just, yeah, I think he's more handsome than Aaron Rogers. I've been thinking about that a lot. I know that's very shallow. I'm sorry, but I've just been thinking about it a lot. He definitely has, he's definitely more like hip.

There's just a lot of Rogers charisma. Yeah, he has great hair. He wears great boots. One thing that we like discussed when we were starting, ringer is like what are the topics we want to cover like do we do we cover things like too much too little like what's like really important and I still think I discussed this a little bit last week I just think there could be no shortage of Jordan Aaron Rogers talk like I know that I like I bring this up a lot but like this is so important I just it still boggles my mind like it's

just like I can't I can't think about Jordan about thinking about Aaron I agree you brought up his ex-girlfriend who says that he cheated on her I've I've since learned from various sources, some I'm reliable, some not, that allegedly Olivia Munn and Jordan's X are still tight. So like that's a problem. That's what the internet's I'm telling me. Interesting. Yeah, it really is. It's just a lot of levels to Jordan. I mean, if Jojo goes with him, it's like, she's really like part of a famous family right away. It's like... That's kind of the other reason why this season has lacked any suspense or any element of surprise. is because, like, Jojo, while beautiful and funny and intelligent and sweet, perhaps, yeah, she's, like, incredibly shallow.

Yeah. She literally always picks the hotter guy in every situation. That was the other reason why it was, like, so obvious she was going to pick Chase over Derek, right? Like, not to be mean about it, but, like, Chase is hot. Yeah. And it was so obvious that she was going to pick the hotter guy show. So when you look at Jordan, hot, athletic, part of a celebrity. family high profile like there's just no way she's not going to opt into that right i know if you're

going on the show to begin with unless you're like a freaking special case like ben and lauren like i just don't know why why you wouldn't go with that with jordan but and this brings this to wells wells well's never stood a chance so wells was the first day of the night he had the one-on-one i'm really too like wells so wells over the course of this past five weeks it seems like his just his whole core has been shaken. He is clearly like such a neurotic normal person. Like, well, I think he's attractive, but like in the real world, like if we, if we saw him on the street, we'd be like, oh, who's that hot guy? Absolutely. In this, in this world, though, it's like, oh, Wells, he's just like, no muscles, just a shrimp, you know, can't, can't even finish the fireman challenge.

But like, it's just not fair. Wells was not put in a position to shine. So the one-on-one day was they went to like kind of a Cirque Soleil kind of thing. Yes. It was called Fuerza Bruta. And by the way, which is like, this is, it's categorized as concerts and shows on TripAdvisor,

has a certificate of excellence and has four and a half out of five stars on 2,500 reviews. That's very high. That is incredibly high. And I'm shocked because at the end, when Jojo goes back in alone, and the water is raining down on the crowd, I had to assume, perhaps wrongly, that that's the same water that the people had been swimming in earlier,

which seems very unhygienic to me. It was weird. I don't really like shows where I might get wet. Although, I don't know, I went to the Beyonce concert, and as she did on the BET Awards, there's a whole set in the beginning, or at the very end, where she's performing freedom in, like, a very shallow pool with her dancers, and it's really cool. And I was like, oh, it would be cool to, like, be close to that. And I was just, like, very curious about how they, like, get the water in and out, that, like, ruining

the whole set. at they do it every night in cities across the country slash world. It really blew me away. But anyway, this Fuerza Bruta was like kind of like stunt challenge. It's like kind of like if you were to go on like a stunt, stunt man challenge. Like this is what's like to be a stunt man. You would do all the things that they did on this date. And then it's like in the show.

It's kind of like a show of like exposing how stunts are done. There's like an elevated pool at the clear bottom, 50 feet in the air. And it, but there's also like water jets. It was really weird. And Joe's like, we're like, we're. what we're doing right now is like really sexy. Like we're having like a great time in this weird suspended pool. And the big storyline going to the date was that Wells hadn't kissed her yet.

It had been five weeks and he hadn't kissed her. The guys were all like blown away by this, which I found very entertaining. They were like, wow, he hasn't kissed her. It's like, I can't keep my hands off for her. It was really funny. I felt really bad for him. I did too. They were being really mean.

They were bullying him and picking on him. Wells is just a nice guy. He can't help it. So then he kisses her. probably the worst possible moment where they're kind of like sliding around in this awkward shallow but elevated pool. It was really weird. And she just decided. And so this is like in the middle of the day and they leave Fuerza Brutel, like go to like their dinner together. She's holding the rose and she's like, well, I can't give you this rose. It was so mean. Why do they make

her do that? The whole thing was painful to watch because again, it was very easy to see how it was going to unfold. Yeah. Also, Wells have like a sallow hue to his skin now. Okay. I have so many things I want to talk about here, but that's one of them. Because as you know, I'm a fan of this podcast and listen regularly. And one of the things that you have talked about each week, rightly so, is that Wells looks sort of sickly. And not have tacos. I found myself wondering last night, is it possible that Wells is actually the only one who looks normal, like a normal person. And that the other guys are just so perfectly manicured, perfectly tan, perfectly tanned, sculpted, that Wells, who just looks like the regular guy with, like, really, like, exaggerated bags under his eyes, looks like he's about

to drop dead. That's a great point. Like, he's actually not wearing any makeup. Yeah. Like, I definitely look exactly like Wells right now. Yeah, I'm like to say, we did a video shoot yesterday. I was like, yeah, I probably looked like Wells in all of those videos. So I feel like, I feel like the, the camera was not kind to Wells. But again, as you noted, if we saw him on the street, we'd probably be like, oh, isn't he handsome? One more thing about Wells' physical appearance. We've talked about this off mic before. He looks like the slightly stretched out version of Josh Flagg from a million dollar listing, Los Angeles, one of our favorite shows. He does. And it's really distracting to me, really distracting. I just like, I'm rooting for Wells so hard. I just think he seems like funny.

And like, maybe he's like kind of like a little bit of a dork, but like, who doesn't like that? that. I agree. He's very sweet. I thought it was strange that he was so incredibly shy considering his profession, which is like, I don't think he was shy. There's a difference between being shy and, like, not forward or not sexually aggressive. And, like, some people can have a big personality, but are nervous, like, going for the first kiss. That's, like, a nerve-wracking thing. Totally, true, especially with all the cameras there. Yeah. So, okay. And also, like, maybe he's normal. And he's, like, right. Like, I don't want to kiss this girl with all the cameras everywhere. And he's, And you want to know what?

Their kiss didn't look that great. So maybe he's a bad kisser and he knows that. So that's a thing. And she like actually said that to him and it was just gut wrenching. She's like, I just, you know, I just didn't feel it. I just didn't feel like. And then she's talking to the camera after she lets him go and she's like, you know, Wells said that the kiss changed everything for him.

And like, unfortunately it did for me too. It's like, dude, that's so harsh. But so Wells has all these chances to kiss her. That's the whole narrative. He's waiting for the perfect moment. The perfect moment is when he's wearing leggings. covered in filthy water sitting in a saran wrap, elevated pool sloshing sideways with cameras underneath him.

That was the perfect moment. Yeah, I don't know what would have been perfect for Wells. Of all, there's been so many dates where the guy's been put in positions to succeed to look good for Jojo, and they've just not done that for Wells at all, at all. He never had a chance. And it's okay, Welts. You got a chance with me in my heart. Well, what did you think about the, obviously she let him go because she's not as physically attracted.

to him, obviously. What else do you have to go on? You know, I don't blame her. But what do you think about the fact that the actual excuse she gave was that she basically didn't think he had the same vision for like a vision of love? Right. Right. Like she is a romantic and an idealist and as such basically a fool. And he is a pragmatist. And so when he was sharing his story about his past relationship, he said, you know, by the end we were basically roommates. And that's obviously very sad. But also common. Right. Anyone who's been in a serious relationship probably heard that and said, yeah, sure.

That's how it goes. She reacted to that. Like he was a heartless monster who was incapable of feeling or passion. Right. Which is not fair. And she's not going to find love if that's how she feels, though, right? She's like basically not prepared for an actual relationship. I mean, you say that with such shock.

But Valerie, this is the best. All right. She's so young. Jury's out of how old she actually is, kind of a thawnaker situation. Oh my God. But, you know, I think she said she's 25. Right. I think she might be 27 based on some internet research.

Who knows? I don't want to accuse her of anything, though. Interesting. Although I've just done it. I don't know. But anyway, I'm always wondering people's real ages here. She and Wells just weren't a match. It's okay.

It's okay. It was. Again, it reinforced what a weak crop it was, right? Because, like, the fact that Wells and Derek were still around at this point when they had no connection with her. Another fatal flaw for Wells was, you wore a leather jacket and just didn't look comfortable in it. You know who really knows how to wear a leather jacket, though? Jordan fucking Rogers.

Oh my God. A leather jacket just makes or breaks you, you know? Like, if you're wearing it, if it's cut well, you're wearing with confidence, it's just like, yes. It was amazing. Luke was also wearing a leather jacket in the same scene as Jordan on the group date, but Luke's was like overly styled. It had a lot of like lines and trimmings and cuts.

He looks good and everything, whatever. There's one key to leather. You got to go classic. Simple. Simple elegance. Jordan looked great. Yeah. Oh, damn, you're really into Jordan.

He's just really handsome. Yeah. He's really handsome. I don't get the feeling like that he like loves her though, you know? Why do you say that was such surprise? Well, it's, I find it. I mean that as a compliment, though. Like, I find it actually kind of refreshing because so many, weirdly, right, this was one of the redeeming, lovable things about Chad, is that even though he was on.

steroids and a bully and constantly threatening violence against other individuals, he was almost always right. His observations about people were very spot on. And one of the things that he said was like, these guys are fucking idiots because they're coming in here and professing their love for someone they don't even know. Absolutely. And so Jordan is sort of like, all right, let's like get to know each other. Let's see if we have chemistry.

I'm going to throw you up against this wall and see what it feels like. And in these moments where she's called him out, he seems pissed about it. Yeah. Which I like. Like most of these phonies would just be like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Let me tell you why you should love me anyway. And he's basically like, you're being a little unfair. Here's why.

Yeah. And he basically said it last night. He was like, I could see myself falling in love with you. And then he corrected himself. He said, I am falling in love with you. But he's not there yet. Right. But how could he be?

Like, he's probably more in love with Robbie than he is with Jojo, just based on time spent. You know? Plus, like, he doesn't even have, like, the benefit of, like, Googling her or, like, looking at her Instagram. they're in fucking seclusion. It sucks. So, like, so much of, like, modern dating is also, like, you know, the, like, the games that you play, like, with through texting and, like, when are we going to go out again,

like, trying each other on, like, one date, like, one day to week, then, like, escalate. And, like, oh, two dates a week. Like, oh, sleeping over. Like, they don't, there's no benefit of that, you know? Right. So, of course he's not in love with her. Jordan's just keeping it real. I like it.

I do, too. Oh, man. We've really talked ourselves into Jordan Rogers here. I just, I don't. I don't know. I just think so many football families would be great reality TV show subjects. Oh, yeah. The Gronk show, obviously, no brainer.

Now that Peyton's retired, the Mannings. Oh, God. Like, that would be great. Enough Manning. I'm done with the Mannings. No, I think that would be a great show. It would just be great. It would be so staged.

It would be amazing. Oh, my God. Like, the family's going to Giants games. I don't know. Also, the Maras and the Roonies. Like, let's get it. Like, I don't know. There's so many football families.

I feel basketball is getting. there, but the NFL has a lot of, like, dynastic groups that just lend themselves to great theater. I want a reality show with Clay and Trace. Our greatest, greatest pair of current athlete brothers. Clay, Trace, and Michael, Jr. Poor Michael. The Thompson bros. Poor Michael.

I freaking, I'm, like, only a little upset that Clay Thompson's on Team USA because it just means he won't be in L.A. this summer. But other than that, I'm so happy. Can we need to cheer him on. Team USA is, like, one of my favorite things. Every four years, I just love the Team USA Basketball team. Men and women. How are you feeling about the people who are not going, though?

Fine. Oh. Like, I'm going to miss Russ, but I like it because I think he put his family first. It's like, okay, I'm married, and I can't be risking Zika if my wife gets pregnant soon. Like, I respect it. Much like I respect Jordan. Mallory, thank you for being on Bachelorette party. This has been a pleasure.

It's been a delight. I can't wait. We got a good episode. It was solid. Hi, I'm Jeff Shackleford. and today on Shackhouse, we talked to Henrik Stenson about Olympic Golf, the Open Championship, and his recent win in the BMW International. You can subscribe to Shackhouse on iTunes or wherever you find podcasts.