The Press Box - Ep. 156: 'Bachelorette Party' Fantasy Suite Recap With Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: July 27, 2016

The Ringer's Juliet Litman and Mallory Rubin discuss Aaron Rodgers's long-awaited response, bid farewell to Luke and break down the fantasy suite dates for Jordan, Robby, and Chase. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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a nonprofit organization that provides clean and safe drinking water to people in developing nations. go to b-it-l-y-com slash ringer merch and now let's talk about Jordan Rogers welcome to bachelor at party I'm Juliette Littman this week was very special it was the overnight dates and you know I don't think anyone who's been watching the show closely and it's familiar with Jojo is really surprised by the outcome but that's kind of neither here nor there at this exact moment we will be getting into it but first let me tell you who I have with me today I have my friend and colleague and devoted Bachelor Watcher, Mallory Rubin.

Hi, Mallory. Juliet, I just want to say that it is an honor and I'm privileged to be here with you. You can't say that every time. But it's always true. It's always true. There's no greater honor than Fantasy Suite Week. I know. Thank you.

You know, you're one of the people in my life who I know will speak openly and honestly about the Fantasy Suites. Like, if I recall some of your commentary about Ben's season with Jojo and Lauren, it was quite harsh. And Kayla as well, like, Kayla is like less to talk about. So I just knew that you'd be perfect for this. We're going to talk about the fantasy suites, obviously. Everyone loves the fantasy suites, but first, I'm breaking news. You know, due to my scheduling reasons,

ended up recording this a little bit later in the day, today, Tuesday, July 20-something. And that worked out well because today, finally, in an interview with a Packers Beat reporter in Wisconsin, Aaron Rogers, the former MVP, I feel like I always need to mention that for some reason. spoke about Jordan, his brother being on the show. Broke his silence. So last week, we met Jordan and Aaron's family.

And not only was Aaron not there, they blurred every picture of him, everywhere. Like, Aaron Rogers will not be involved in The Bachelorette. And, like, he was not commenting and, you know, he just hasn't said anything. And finally, he broke his silence. And let me tell you what he said. This is from jesbill.com. Thank you, Jezbel, for doing the Lord's work and transcribing this so quickly. as far as those kinds of things go, I've always found that it's a little inappropriate to talk publicly about some family matters.

So I'm just, I'm not going to speak on those things, but I wish him well in the competition. The competition. First of all, that is maybe a name that we considered for our website back in September. And if we had, we would now have a great sound bite. But alas, here we are. The competition. So there's two ways of looking at this. I think there's two ways.

Let me break down one for you. Okay. Aaron and Jordan, two football players. Aaron's successful at the highest level of his sport. Jordan, not so much. Aaron as a competitor and as a victor would see everything as a competition. And when you mention it, when you put it in those terms, the fact that he is like obviously the superior brother cannot be ignored.

Like Aaron has won a Super Bowl. Aaron is dating Olivia Munn. Aaron is super mega famous. Yes. He knows a competition when he sees it and he knows how to win. So I just feel like calling on a competition is very incendiary for a lot of reasons, one of them being that he's just kind of asserting his dominance over his brother. Interesting.

I think that's a fair interpretation. My interpretation? Ooh, please tell me. Was straight shade because he's basically saying, I know that all my brother cares about is attempting to be as good as me. I love it. At football or at dating a famous person and being in the spotlight. And so the competition, then it's a double entendre.

Which competition? The competition with Jojo and Jordan's fellow suitors or the competition with Aaron. Right. I like that reading a lot. Also, going off of that, it's like by calling out to competitions, like, well, he's calling out his brother. It's like, he's not looking for love. He's just looking to win.

And like athletes, athletes like, athletes, and like, yeah, got a roll. And the words of LeBron James, roll of the winners. Totally. I mean, there is, that element is undeniable, regardless of the overall interpretation. The way he's saying Jordan is someone who cares about being first, who cares about trying to be the best, who cares about getting ahead. So to him, love is just another game. Right. That's like deeply offensive. That's rude. Amy Whitehouse one said, love just a losing game. It's pretty great. It's also like just incredible that Jordan dragged his brother into this mess. Like he forced him to comment by every time Aaron was brought up.

He kind of would like sheepishly like move his head from side to side, like slick back his hair with his hand. Like he wanted it to be acknowledged as much as possible while saying as little as possible. And honestly, smart move by Jordan. He's like hasn't really implicated himself one way or the other. All he said is that his brother's not in his life. And it's just about how I'm never going to get out of this quote, how he's chosen to do life. Like that's a real indictment of his brother. Brutal.

But you're right, just by saying, eh, you know, this is a hard thing to talk about. I'm not totally comfortable talking about this. But he is talking about it. That's what he's doing, right? So it's a sneaky sort of, you know, potentially conniving way to pretend that he doesn't want to bring Aaron and his family drama into the spotlight while doing exactly that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, 100%. Another game.

Another game that Jordan and Aaron are playing with each other. They must have had such a competitive household. Totally. We didn't really get to see the true colors of the Rogers parents, but like they must be like crazy stage parents. I mean, that's the only thing I can include. Do you ever read the article in the New York Times last year, but the Alford family, Steve Alford and Bryce Alford of UCLA basketball? It's just about like how crazy competitive, like the whole family is, including the mom slash wife. And I just think, I just, I don't know, like athlete lives and families are so intriguing.

And I think part of it is because like the maniacal like will to win. that you have to have to succeed even on like that college level is so intense. And when you have three boys who all play football that require like such dedication, which is crazy. Totally. That's, you know, maybe that explains why they painted their house,

that shade of green. You have to channel your emotions somehow. I like that shade of green. It's nice. I'm going to say, I like a house that stands out. I like a bright color. Yeah.

I just want to say this is all making me very excited for Hard Knocks, which is coming question. Can't wait. I love Hard Knocks. Me too. I cherish it. can't wait for Todd Gurley to be back in my life. I don't know like anything about him. So I'm going to be learning a lot. I can't wait. You're going to love the Jared Gough storyline because I assume it will

all be about Harry Potter and I know how much you love Harry Potter. That's incorrect. I have only seen movies three and eight. I was very hungover for eight and I read zero books. I've only read one page of Harry Potter and it was the epilogue of book seven because I wanted to know if Harry died or not. This is really hard to hear. So that's how I feel about. Harry Potter. All right, let's talk about the fantasy sweets. I can't believe I've delayed it as much as I have. What about Luke?

Oh, God, Luke. Okay, let's talk about Luke. Do you like Luke? I'm torn on Luke. Give me the pros on Luke because I really need to be one over. I'm concerned that I'm going to have more Luke in my future and I'm not looking to it. Seems like that way.

Yeah. So the pros on Luke, look, I think most people would say that he's incredibly handsome. Okay. I personally think he's actually a little strange looking. He has like a certain bird. bird-like quality to his face bird huh that's not the animal I would have gone for for some reason he reminds me of like some kind of like chipmunk or squirrel interesting some kind of like outdoor like vermin kind of thing like an outdoor animal not not in the home like he's not like a mouse

like coming into my kitchen right but like he's like I don't know I just feel like he's like squirrely interesting he certainly looks better with his shirt off sure then with an on I'm very unattracted to him like I just have no interest I think he has a, okay, so he has a soft, sort of sweet, tender voice, which is charming. He dresses well. He's gigantic hands. There he gets enough and then everyone can read right into that. Well, we know that because when he touches Jojo, it's like his hands like too large for her body.

She is also like, she's tiny. She's minute. But yes, he seems to have large hands. And apparently he plays the guitar. But our colleague, Ben Lindberg, did some Instagram sleuthing. Welcome to the ringer, Ben. Welcome, Ben. Said that Luke is a musician, but unlike James Taylor, didn't feel compelled to throw that

in our face every episode. No, because he's just the Army man. He was typecast. Yeah, I don't know. He's sweet. He's sort of like weirdly surprisingly smart, right? Went to West Point is actually like fairly well spoken when he chooses to engage in conversation, which is admittedly rare.

Right. Like, that's my thing about Luke. Like, can he have a conversation? This is what Luke said last night at the top of the show. This is like 10 minutes of airtime. right after Bernie Sanders. And he said, at least it was for me, what happened on the East Coast?

I meant to check him with people about that. I noticed they were able to watch, but I don't know how because ABC was shown Bernie for me. Anyway, this is what Luke said. Luke was like, I wanted the chance to get to love you or wanted the chance to fall in love with you.

Like, Clary clearly had not fall in love with her yet, which she knew, which is why I got voted off. And he wanted the chance. Like, he was hoping to be chosen to, like, get there. So, but he did seem mad to be voted off. So, like, is he just a camera whore? Like, is that we're supposed to think here? I think what was strange about the way he reacted is that he obviously felt insecure enough about his position heading into the rose ceremony to basically say, can we, can we stop for a minute so that I can pull you aside and tell you that I love you at the last minute or that I'm falling in love with you at the last minute because I am anxious about the fact that I didn't do that in the fucking heart pedal thing that I made and then didn't walk you into.

And then he's like, I can't believe but I'm blindsided. I'm stunned. But how could you be stunned if you had that anxiety in the first place? His face indicated like astonishment, but his tone did not. And like that's like one of my problems with Luke is that he doesn't emote verbally. And I need like a, I need like a more

persuasive talker. He emotes physically. Which makes for better TV. Does it though? Now when you're the bachelor, you have to give good interview. You have to be able talk to the camera. Like, tell me how you're feeling. I hate to do this because it's just so embarrassing.

But I just miss Ben. I just miss Ben Higgins. Can he be The Bachelor all the time? Like, the thing about Luke is he doesn't, yeah, he just doesn't have like enough verbal capability to carry a conversation, let alone a television show. Maybe he would be a refreshing. That's true. Maybe it would be a refreshing change compared to Ben, who like we got to the point with him right where it was like, no matter how fond you were of him, you couldn't help but feel that every speech was rehearsed. and that every line was like canned?

That's never going to be the case with Luke. No, he'll just say the same like five words over and over again. That's another kind of bachelor. That was like Chris Solz was like that. Blonde, overly blonde Sean Lowe was like that. Like the ones who lack of vocabulary just like have like ten, they have like a phrase book and they just repeat them over and over. And that's like what you do to avoid like real like emotional.

Yes. He definitely doesn't seem like he's like really already to be like vulnerable, publicly vulnerable and to open up his heart. He struggles to even tell his dad that he loved him. I don't think that he really like Jojo that much. And that's fine. Yeah. But that's what you say when you're, when you don't like the girl that much,

you're like, I wanted the chance to fall in love with you. Right. Like you clearly are not even close to it yet. And like you're just trying to like extend this. And that's cool. Like I appreciate that honesty, but that's how we're here to do. Very awkward thing to say. He was the best dress though.

So that's a little bit of a loss. And this brings me back to Jordan. Jordan's a sharp dresser. No? Okay. We're really jumping around. We've got to talk about the fantasy suite, but I just need to address this. this because it really upset me.

The very end of the episode, they do the rose ceremony. It's very cash because they're in Thailand. It's probably like humidity, 150%. Oh my God, they were so sweaty. Yeah. I kind of, like, it looks kind of hot. Like Jojo and Jordan's date seem pretty dope. But so Jojo, Jordan arrives for the rose ceremony wearing pants that don't fit.

Like, very awkward tailoring, which leads me to believe he was drinking so much. He gained weight in the course of the show. And they didn't fit. Like, he probably bought those pants like two months ago. And it wasn't getting the same. same kind of activity or healthy lifestyle he's used to. But even worse, he was wearing flip pops. They weren't even like leather rainbows. They were like, I think male havayanas. And I cannot get down with that. Male habayanas to like a like a formal romantic ceremony.

Like if you're taking this seriously which Jordan purports to be, you cannot wear flip flops to throw a ceremony. That's like no flip flops like, I don't know. Flip flops are just like they're not a a formal shoe. I thought he looked great. Also, Robbie wore a close-toe shoe. He wore sparries, right? Or a spary-like boat shoe. I preferred that.

Both men were wearing shoes that you might wear. Exactly. This is part of it. I was basically like, they're just both wearing outfits that I routinely wear, like light pants, blue shirts and some sort of brown leather shoe. That's just basically my wardrobe. It's like, they look great. But Robbie, whose feet couldn't breathe, he was dripping.

I like, I kind of preferred it. It was kind of funny. Also, Robbie, while we're talking about feet here, does Robbie own socks? There's no proof that he owned socks. Oh, certainly not. A Florida guy. Yeah, I guess, a swimmer. What's the thing? My friend Catherine never wore socks. I met her. We live in San Francisco. We like went to Ireland, it was just very cold. She never wore socks. I guess people from warm places, like socks is not in their life or something. But like socks are so wonderful. Oh, socks are terrible. I only want to wear socks at home. Okay, well, Robbie, I don't think ever wants to wear socks. No, certainly not.

I don't think Robbie ever wants to wear clothes, though, to be fair. I just want to wear Jordan and the flip-flops. Like, I'm just, if this is one of the most important weeks of your life, get some good shoes, bro. Like, just get something better. Or if you didn't bring them, like, buy something there. You're at there, they're at a Marriott, by the way. They're at a Marriott. Wow.

Not even, like, like, a fancy, like, Marriott vacation cloud. There's, like, a Marriott. His outfit and his general vibe were consistent, though. It's very much, like, I'm going to be comfortable. because the most important thing here is me. Yeah. Which is his vibe throughout, which I would love to discuss. I guess.

Okay. Well, let's talk about their date. So they started off by going to some kind of like hike in Thailand that also involved water of waterfall. No, I take that back. Sorry, that was her date with Ben. Temple. Temple. Temple.

No kissing in a temple. That's right. But plenty of touching. A lot of nuzzling. Yes. She wore a peculiar sports bra. It offered no support. But I guess when you have implants, you don't really need it.

Her hair looks great, though. She did. She looked really cute. Also, she was so sweaty that her makeup was falling off. And she looked beautiful. She did. She looked so beautiful. She looked great.

I loved it. Jojo, let those freckles to shine. They're so cute. What would Von Miller say about someone like Jocha? I don't know what he would do with Jojo. He'd be very confused. For more context, check out Kevin Clark on Von Miller on the ringer.com. Anyway, they had this date.

They go to the temple. It's pretty beautiful. It looks like they, it looks so perfect that it could have been like Disneyland, but I'm trusting it wasn't. Date, blah, blah, blah. They just want to know if they can have fun without making out or whatever. Cool. We all want to know that.

And then they have dinner. And it's like back to the hotel or whatever. And Jojo is like nervous about Jordan. And so she asked him, where do you see yourself in one year? He can't answer. Right. One year's not that far away. I'll tell you where I'll be in one year doing the exact same thing.

I know that I know that I will be. There's just very little, when you reach a certain age, and they're not that young, not that much changes in one year. So we have to just assume that Jordan does nothing and therefore can't predict anything because there's nothing to like work off of. There was a way for him to give that exact same answer, but spin it in his favor. Like, well, I can't answer that because if you pick me and if we end up together, I'm willing to uproot my life to be with you. And so it's impossible for me to say what the future holds. but he was just simply talking about his career and like his lifestyle right and like if someone calls and asks me to be on TV or if like I have a chance to go hang with my boys like I might just have to

like pop in and out yeah and the weirdest choice of all was that he was using the fact that he doesn't have a home quote home base as like a good thing right that's a deal breaker for me yeah he's basically like I'm a nomad like I can just coast and move and see you whenever it's like you don't have a home right like where is the majority of his stuff like where is like I think he said Nashville. Yeah, he said that. But, like, his own apartment, at a friend's apartment, on the street. Great question.

And a storage unit. Like, who knows? Certainly not in, like, one of Aaron's Nashville bases. No. That's for sure. Does Aaron have a Nashville base as well? I just like to think that people like Aaron Rogers have a base everywhere. Oh, it's like Taylor Switch.

She's at Holmes, Rhode Island, Nashville, New York, Beverly Hills. Yeah. But Taylor Switch has a lot more money than Aaron Rogers, right? How much is Aaron Rogers make for a year? NFL players don't make that much. I know. I mean, he certainly has endorsements. Sure.

I'm sure State Farm has given him a nice chunk of change, but, you know, he's not making, like, Clayton Kirshall money, for example. Right. Which is wild. Or, like, Mike Conley Jr. money, which is crazy that he's the highest played player in the NBA. Amazing. Oh, my God. Yeah, so they have this date, and so he can't answer where he's going to be in the year.

So that's, like, terrifying for Jojo. And then he tries to say it by being like, I can't say where I'm going to be in the year, but I'm paraphrasing. but I'm ready to be in love with you. And again, he said, I'm ready to be in love with you. Not that he is in love with her, which again, like is valid. It's only been seven or eight weeks or whatever. But that's not playing the game, Jordan.

And as we know, it's a competition. And that's good enough for Jojo, though. She doesn't care. And they just start, like, making out. Correct. And then they go, and they go to the fantasy suite. They have their quote unquote off-camera time. And, you know, you can speculate on whether or not.

they have sex. I've never been more certain with any couple on the history of the Bachelor of the Bachelorette than these two. Because the next morning they interviewed Jordan. They're like, how was last night? And he was like, gave the most disgusting grin where he was like, it was everything I needed. Like, it was so gross. It was like, it was insane. It was bad.

Also, everything I needed, like it's not Jordan's show. Yeah. he had multiple comments last night that were like that. That was the, that was the, it makes me think he's a sex addicts or something. Like, I needed it. He might be. I mean, I assumed what he meant was like, I needed to know if we had that final thing, which is like sexual chemistry.

Yeah. That's fine. I just thought like he was like, just felt like he really needed sex. I needed it. I needed it. Maybe he did. Maybe he did. But he had also said something similar in a very different context earlier when he was, like,

talking about her meeting his family. And he's like, it was the last box I needed to check. Yeah. And it's like, Jordan, you're not picking her. Right. She's picking you. Actually, at this point, my husband paused. He is like, he basically pretends like he hates watching this and like I make him do it. And like it's like just something he has to do to, you know, the sacrifices that you have to make when you're spending your life with someone. He loves it.

Of course he does. And so he pauses and he just turns to me and he's like basically essentially saying like this guy is like such a self-involved asshole. Yeah. And I said this to him and I will say this to you now and to listeners everywhere. Here's my theory, right? This is actually why Jojo likes Jordan best. Not only because of the obvious, like, I go for bad boys thing, but because that's real life. Dealing with other people who care more about themselves and they care about you who are deeply self-interested and self-obsessed is weirdly more familiar and more normal.

This is a great theory. And someone like Robbie, right? It's actually very jarring to just be with someone who's like, you're incredible. You're the center of my world. Yeah. Like, you don't come across people like that in the course of normal existence. And so I think it's a lot easier to accept. And also, if you did, like if someone was like, Juliet, like I'm obsessed with you, like, I just want to be with you every second.

Like someone I met seven weeks ago, I'd be like, okay, no thanks. You're crazy. Seven weeks into like. Be a little meaner to me, please. Seven weeks into working at Grantland when I was saying that to you, you were like, who is this chick? Now, you're like, I didn't talk to you for the first seven weeks. Exactly. And that's why you thought it was so weird. But now you're like, all right. But right. So it's like, it's a more familiar normal thing the way Jordan acts. And so it's easier to envision what life with him would be like. That's a great point. He also kind of like brings his personal, like preconceived ideas about like relationships to it. Like he was like very pointed about like, I need to look in your father's eyes and ask if I can marry you. Right. He was like almost like it's almost like he had like pre. printed some kind of like pamphlet about their relationship and that was part of it and he was worried

about having to like reprint it or something totally and he's like so specific about how the relationship's supposed to happen right that's almost like kind of a relief though as well because you're in like the structure of this show and then if there's someone who's also like kind of like bringing their own baggage that's also like kind of like wadier to obscure the kind of the fiction that you're living it's just like it's more normal to live like your partner's fiction than to live a television show's fiction right Totally. You have to like buy into a delusion together basically, which is like kind of a cynical and sad way of putting a relationship.

But it's. And also a perfect summation of the enter breast. And so that's like that's a great point. Like it's easier to imagine a life with Jordan because he's kind of putting it all out on front street. He's like, this is who I am. I'm a selfish dude who loves to have sex with you. Yes.

So take it or leave it. Also, I'm a selfish dude who loves to have sex with you. And then after I have sex with you, I'm going to put on the weirdest pants. Okay. I'm glad you brought this up. So morning after, Jordan Shortless, shirtless, obviously. And he's wearing gray sweatpants that I only,

here's my thought on this. I don't think they were that weird. I think they're only weird because you're so used to athlete leisure. And they were like from Kmart. What about the knees? What about them? They were like, they had like ridges on them. It was like a ruffle potato chip on the knee cap.

That's a style though. That's like a style. It was very strange. I just felt like they were kind of like, it's kind of like when you go to Target where I shop all the time and like they have stylish clothes that are like a little bit off.

It's also like Canadian television. It's like so similar but there's just something off about it. You're like oh this is like somehow kind of bootleg. Jordan was like clearly wearing sweatpants that were bootleg. They were like, he probably saw Aaron wearing a really nice pair of designer sweatpants pants like bought the knockoff. It's all a competition. Or something like that.

It was also more noticeable because unlike Jojo and Robbie who we cut to embed in each other's arms. Jordan and Jojo came from another room. Yeah. Morning Quickie. Before the cameras came. Oh, wow. Interesting.

That's my theory. In the shower? Maybe. Were they coming from the bathroom? No, but their hair was dry. Hard to maintain dry hair in the shower if you're together and having sex. Great point. I mean, it's true, right?

Great point. Like one person has to really maneuver if that's the case. That's true. We didn't see the bathroom either. I feel like if there's sexual activity happy in the bathroom, they go out of the way to show you the setup. I'm guessing morning sex. X, they knew the cameras would be in one room, so they were in the other.

That's my guess. And that's great. Good for them. I'm happy for them. I'm having them most of their time together. Jordan seemed really happy. I mean, it also probably would contribute to why he was so happy in the morning. That's true.

So. He really needed it. He really needed it. Do you think Jordan waxed in his chest? I was going to ask you about his chest. Are you okay with us? I think yes. He must.

I think I'm okay with it. I don't mind hair, but it's just so on brand for Jordan. I'm just like, of course. Yeah, it's fine. He looks fine. I think it's like, I don't have any firm rules about this stuff. It depends on the guy and whether it seems right. I like a little spattering of chest hair, though.

Like, you should be reminded that you're with a man and not a child or a doll. Sure. It definitely contributes to his Ken doll, like, aesthetic, though. Yeah. I mean, Jordan's handsome. Yeah, totally agree with you. The chest waxing is a person-by-person basis. I don't ever.

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to get matched with four wines that are delivered straight to your door. Bright Sellers members rate and review their wine to continue discovering new wines they'll love. If you use the link, Brightsellers.com, slash Bachelor. That's bright, B-R-I-G-H-T-S-E-L-A-R-S dot com slash Bachelor. You'll get a $30 credit on your first order, and honestly, you'll make me look good. So please do it. I know you need some Bachelor. Sorry. So please do it. I know you need some wine for while you watch Bachelor in Paradise. How else will you make it through? All right. We've only talked about Jordan. And there's so much more of this episode. Granted Jordan's the most important part of this season. Yes. But let's talk about Robbie for a second. I'd love to. Robbie and Jojo, their date was like a time massage. Right. And was it my TV or was it really noisy? Like, was there a lot of like sounds happening? Like, I was like, why do they picture a loud date? Like, why didn't they like muff all the sounds or something? That's a great question. It was really weird. Also, I don't think couples massages are appealing. I actually don't find a massage is appealing, really. I agree. But like, why bring other people into that? Like, more, like, let's go with, I would prefer. I would prefer. I would.

for like a couple's mud bath or something like that. Counterpoint for this case only, it wasn't like a body massage, which is very sexual and or sensual. It was a foot massage. I don't like feet are fucking gross. They probably are like, oh, Robbie's never worn in socks. His feet are so smelly. We need to do this.

Imagine the corns on that guy, the bunyan situation, the calluses. Like, let's get him nice and freshened up before the fantasy suite. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that makes sense. And then what was the rest of their day? I don't even remember. I honestly have no collection. I was so distracted by Jordan. And then anything I took in was then just kind of blocked out by the fact that all I thought about for the next like 12 hours was Jordan's flip-lops of the row ceremony.

The only thing that I can really recall from the entire Robbie experience is, of course, that he showed up in the middle of Chase's date. But also that he, this was the episode where he stopped calling her Jojo and started calling her Joelle. Yes. Jojo's a much better name. But that's sweet, I guess. I thought it was really nice. Oh, the other thing he did, of course, was give her his father's letter. Oh, yeah. Which was deeply weird. That was deeply, deeply weird.

It was so strange. First of all, nothing in that letter was, like, remotely interesting or notable. No. So why raised it in the first place? But then to gift it to her as definitive proof that his feelings are real. Like, the thing he said was like, the man who knows me better than anyone in the world could see instantly that I was in love with you. so forget about the fact that your one concern is that I maybe love you too much. Right.

What? What's the calculus? Yeah. And the thing is that with Robbie, there's so many like made up red flags. Like we've got this letter. We've got the ex-girlfriend of three months ago. We've got like just so many things about him that just don't ring true. Also, you know, his mom bringing up the rumors.

And I also believe Robbie was the one who introduced the In Touch magazine, wasn't he? When they, like every time there's sounded like a. producer setup like Robbie's the one who's involved interesting and I just feel like he's a pawn I just like Robbie wants this so badly that he'll do anything to be on screen like Robbie probably wasn't like oh I'm just gonna go knock on her door and see she's there like I'm so I'm sure someone's like Robbie go bring the letter oh yeah of course I mean she was about to like go to the second part of her date with Chase right when he showed up and it was like she was in her black dress and all done on let's detour to Chase for a second great I am shocked that she chose chase over Luke which really

leaves a lot of questions for me about Luke like what's wrong with him because Chase could not be more vanilla there's nothing to him I don't know anything about him except that his parents were divorced and it sounded really regular but he made it sound really dire like I don't know anything and I can't I'm really

struggling with why she selected Chase over Luke it doesn't make any sense theory ooh hear me she is so overwhelmingly attracted to Luke the sexual chemistry that they have so fierce. Are we talking about you or are we talking about Jojo? Just to be clear.

Both. Both. Okay. She was worried that if she took him to the fantasy suite and they consummated their relationship, she wouldn't be able to say goodbye. She would just pick Luke. Yeah. I had a similar thought. Like it was just so, it was purely sexual and she was like trying to like really commit to the other guys. That was more than that. Right. I also wondered if the producers were like, get rid of Luke for like a better storyline or something interesting the weird the only other thing i'll say about luke is like i actually can't get over how bizarre it was that she openly wept for 10 minutes after saying goodbye as the other three guys stood there in the distance and watched what was she so upset about she's like this is not how it's supposed to be i don't know how to do this

right well i don't know how to do this i don't know what i'm doing thing is like a recurring very annoying theme i think her thing with luke was more like i'm really upset to say goodbye to him does that mean I made a mistake, right? But like, they could hear her. And see her weeping. Yeah. Like, what is even the equivalent? This would be like if I said, okay, Juliet, I'm really busy.

I need your help with editing a piece for tomorrow. Can you, can you do this for me? And you said yes, because you're a good person. And I told you that I loved you and that I wanted you to accept my rose in the form of this file. And that I was really, really glad that you had said yes and that you were going to be working on this piece. And that it filled me with joy and excitement to know.

know that you were going to be a part of this experience with me and then took two steps into the next office. But the door was open and you could still see me and hear me. And then I wept and screamed about the fact that Ryan O'Hanlon was not editing the story instead. Like, what, how would that make you feel? Would you be excited that I had trusted you or devastated? I'd be so pissed. It's really weird. It's really weird. Also, like, well, she could just like gone around the corner or something. She's really, she has a real poor level of social awareness with that stuff. It came up multiple other times with Chase. And at the end, not to skip past Chase,

but when she was professing her love to Robbie and Jordan together. Yeah, together. What was that about? This is not very weird. I just feel like maybe something happened with Chase and with Luke that we don't know about. Interesting. There must be something fatally wrong with Luke. I just feel like it because I don't get why she would pick Chase over him.

Like, tell me something about Chase. Like what? Like, I'm like, who's Chase? What would you say? I think Chase is handsome. Okay. not acceptable so I don't know but that's something you know about him

he has a home he's a homeowner in Colorado he has a he has a real job unlike Jordan right he has a sense of like home and place and belonging he has a community and a family so far what you're describing is like an extra in a romantic comedy but that's what Chase was

in this season he was an extra in the romantic comedy and he made it just far enough to be absolutely shredded the extra gets axed in act too The extra is in like the big reveal. And, you know, it's like when Harry met Sally, when they're, when they're having the party and old langsine is playing, all old langsine is playing. And like, Chase is one of the people in the background who's like dancing. He's not part of like the emotional core of the show. Chase was her safety net this season.

He was like, he was the insurance policy for going all in on bad boy Jordan and sort of like almost creepily romantic. Robbie. Those are both two really very different, but very intense personalities. And Chase is just the steady lump who's just there. Do you know what Chase is? Chase is not even, Chase is an extra on the television show of The Office when they filmed, when they filmed scenes on location in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Chase is plop. Yeah. Chase worked with Jim in Connecticut on the office. Like that's who Chase is. Like I just am so baffled by his presence. And then this is the weirdest thing of all time. So who cares that they did on their date? Doesn't matter. They have dinner. He had so much fun on their date, though.

He did have so much fun. He was so much fun. He was so happy. He had a great time. They were in the ocean. He did look nice. He tried to kiss a fish. He kissed a fish.

I actually was like, oh, is she into him? Because she, like, they're sitting facing each other. And she kind of caught up. Yeah, she crawled onto his lap. And it was like. Imagine the, like, suction sound when she got up. They were both so sweaty. That's, like, not sexy at that point.

You got the sea mist on. you. I don't know. That was like straight out of like nostalgic back to their first date, the hot yoga, where she signed his lap that way. Yeah, that's true. That's a nice note. Good point. Good point. A little bookend. Yeah, cool, cool. So, okay, they have a great date. I mean, of the three dates, it probably was my preferred Julia Lippman would like to go on that one the most. It was just basically, like they went to the beach. They went in the water. Right. Looks great. No, no awkward massages, no like extreme physical exertion, like just relaxation by the ocean, like being in the water is my favorite thing. Yes. Okay, great date.

They're at dinner. It's fine. Mm-hmm. They accept the fantasy suite. They go to the fantasy suite. They do not have sex because Jojo breaks up with him, like, in the fantasy suite. After... After what?

Making him say I love you. After making him say I love you, exactly. It was so messed up. It was horrible. It was so weird. I just feel like Jojo will do anything the producers tell her. Yeah. It's hard to...

Unreal's a little bit in my head, but it's really hard to not watch us without thinking, like, a normal person would not do that unless they were prompted to or like someone demanded they do that. And with pretty much all these, it seems like with Robbie, he's the one doing the producer work. And with Chase, she's doing it. And with Jordan, they're both kind of like in the charade together. Interesting. Yeah, that sounds right. I think like I appreciated that Chase called her out on it.

Me too. But then he didn't even really like at the end of the episode, he comes back in the middle of the row ceremony. And he's just there to like wish her well. I think that's, I read that more as like not him back. down but him wanting to save face. And the last note that you had with Chase would not be him crying in a car being like, why did I do that? I feel so stupid. I'm so embarrassed. Crying in a car with a beer, he just popped open very loudly. The beer move was so great. I really respected. Me too. There's a few things about leaving The Bachelor or Bachelorette.

First of all, number one role, don't cry on camera. It's just so, so weak. And you just are going to look bad. It's very hard to look attractive crying on camera. Number two, if you can like have some kind of like prop like the best exit after not winning was on sean low season when the other girl whose name i forget it was like Caitlin or something i mean who cares she was wearing high heels that were very uncomfortable and she immediately took them off right that's like one of the best moves in bachelor history and i can't remember her name but anyway jase is now like going to be in the pantheon to like be standing at the van just crack open your beer like very close to your mic is such a great move it's just like fuck it world love it i need a beer he also chugged his champagne

before getting off the couch in the first place. He was in full-on coping mode at that point. She probably knew that it wasn't in the cars for him. He said that. So that's actually part of why this was so clearly manipulative and actually, I think, kind of cruel. Yeah. Is because he said to her, I think at dinner, maybe, maybe they'd already moved to the couch by this point. But before she broke up with him, he said, I feel like I've been a little bit behind, behind Robbie, behind Jordan.

Like, I've had to work a little harder for it. And then earlier in the date when they had been on the beach, he was like, you've really put me through a lot. Like he said multiple times, you don't like me as much of these as these guys, right? He gave her an opportunity to be like, right, you should probably go. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, you never know what's in someone else's head or heart. But like to pull the, I don't really know how I feel until I hear someone say I love you.

That's actually kind of what she did with Wells, where it was like, you know, lower stakes at that point. But she pulled the whole like, it wasn't until I heard him say this to me that I knew I didn't feel the same way card. and her whole like, I need a minute to cry and then I'm going to just tell you how bad I am at this as an explanation and an excuse that's like not acceptable. No, definitely not. Also, you went through this. I've been to say, like, she's obviously very scarred by Ben. I really think she is. Like, I don't, I think that's maybe one of like the truest things about her.

She kept bringing up. Like, when she was talking to Jordan, she was like, that's what Ben said to me. Like, she is still, I mean, that is like still very raw, which I understand. I don't blame her. but it makes them her behavior so much worse. Totally. Like I just don't get it. She's weird.

She really is. She really is. I think best case scenario for this season, because you only get one left, is that she doesn't end up with anyone. Like, that would just be so great. Oh, man. I just feel like that would be the best, like narratively, that would be the best. And then Jordan could be the bachelor.

Would she go to Paradise? No. Then she gets like a spin-off like Jojo in L.A. or like Jojo in Dallas. Jojo and her brother's flipping houses. I don't know. We really don't know anything about any of these people. Her and a thing other than Jordan. Like, your point that we don't know anything about Chase is true, but like, we actually

literally don't know what Robbie does. Like, we know he was a former competitive swimmer. But what does he do now? There was this moment last night where he was like, I want to be the guy who's late to work because I don't want to get out of bed and who leaves work early. Because, like, I'm so excited to see it. He doesn't know how work works. You don't know what a job is.

Right. Like, you're not an adult. And like, you know, that's kind of perfect. That's the thing is, like, a compelling person on this show would have, like, a job and like a purpose. But if you have either of those things, you're unavailable to drop everything and go on reality TV. Your only purpose on the show can be being obsessed with Jojo, which of course is what made Chad so compelling. He's willing to call everybody out on that. Right. How much believability you think is necessary in this show at this point? Like this is the 11th Bachelorette. We've had 20

bachelors. Like what is the role of believability on this show? Because I've been thinking about that's a lot. It's a great question. Because I've been thinking about who I think should be the bachelor. And I am agitating for athlete celebrity, like D-LIS, D or C-List. Not someone that famous. But like, and that's actually what's happening on Unreal this season, which has not been nearly as good as last season. And do you need to like buy into the fact that like the guy has to go on the show to find a way?

Like you can't find anyone any other way. Because I don't think you do anymore at this point. No. I mean, I think it's at the point actually where everyone is. I mean, I know a lot of the narrative this season was like, these guys suck. But in theory, they're all such eligible bachelors. They're all good looking. Like, they all, like, in theory, could just, like, get a date anytime with anyone.

They're almost more now at this point in the, are you the one mold? Yeah. I'm just bad at relationships. Not I struggle to get into a relationship in the first place. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think actually the least believable thing that Jojo would ever have a hard time getting a date. She said it on Ben's season.

And she's, like, so hot. in a way that I know men recognize. Like, she kind of, like, checks the boxes of hotness. And which date was she wearing, like, the pink, like, basically napkin as a shirt? Was that Chase's date? Yeah, I think it was at the end. Chase. I, like, had to, like, pause because I was so overcome.

Yeah. I mean, and also, like, this is how she looks. She looks really pretty by the beach when she can't wear as much makeup. Yeah. Like, that's just a better look for her. Great embed with Robbie. Yeah, she did. She looked beautiful.

Like, the bags under her eyes. First of all, she just looked like a. regular person because like that's what people look like but her hair was pulled back she had bags under eyes she looked tired and like truly happy in a very pure actually her facial expression during that scene was the only moment in this entire season where i was like she might not pick jordan i still think she's going to but it seemed like she and robbie had a good time yeah they did also they were like kicking it in bed i mean that sounds nice but then when she left wasn't she like i'll i'll be seeing you or something like she had some sort it was really awkward yeah peace out pal it was definitely definitely weird

One thing that's funny, I remember this from Caitlin's season. In Ireland, they had the guys do like a long walk leaving Caitlin. Like I remember Ben's. I remember Knicks because there was like a confrontation. And I remember Sean's, obviously. Sean and Nick ate each other. And this time, for some reason, they had Jojo like do the walk, which is weird. And I'm not going to call it a walk of shame because it's not.

It's not like she's like walking back home or whatever. I mean it's just, but it was weird that they flipped that. Like, I'm not sure what that's supposed to say. And that's the only person that they had showed her walking was, or that she said goodbye to Robbie. Yeah, but they showed her walking from Jordan because he was behind her and his ugly sweatpants up on the balcony. That was very like, that was just so, I mean, like, it was literally staged. Like, that shot is also like, if I'm her and I know that he's looking at me, like, I look back over my shoulder like four or five times. That was the other thing.

That was the other moment. I was like, maybe they don't like each other. Like she didn't look at him at all. It just made me think that it was so planned. Because even if you don't like him, how do you not look? And if you're going to choose to not look,

you look straight down. She was looking straight ahead. So they obviously were like, just walk forward, Jojo. Maybe they missed the shot. They had to redo it. And that's why it was so weird like that.

But I don't know. It was weird. And also, I was just looking at Jordan. I was like, you got to be hot, man. Like sweatpants, but no shirt and like a humid,

warm climate. That's not comfortable. No. Horrible. No. Feel great, though. As a woman, I don't really understand the shirtless with pants idea. Like, that's not, like, that doesn't sound comfortable. It just sounds hot. Like, I hate being hot. Like, I just don't get it.

I agree. I feel like Jordan, though, is probably like, again, this is part of his athlete. Like, he wants to be wearing, like, the skin tight, like, underarmor pants. And this was, like, the most television-friendly version of that. Every man going on television who might be seen in sweats needs to watch Creed. totally agree it's Michael B Jordan great point great advice oh god Michael B what a great bachelor he'd be I mean he's a way too high class for it like way way way way too high class but I would love that I would audition um Mallory thank you for joining me for this epic breakdown of the fantasy

sweets thank you for having me what an honor enjoy the men tell all you know I might not watch it wow too much Chad do you think it's just going to be all Chad it's just so it's just like the reason that these guys are on it and they're available it's because they stock you know it's going to be a lot of I think we'll steal the camera. Alex, no interest. Horrible. I hate Alex. Do you think they will announce Luke as the bachelor tonight?

Do you think that's going to happen? Or do you think there's still a chance that it's Robbie if she doesn't pick Robbie? I do not think they'll be announcing it tonight is my thought. They didn't announce Ben at the mental all, right? I can't remember. I don't think so. Because they don't start filming until September and it's currently July. That's right.

And they announced Jojo at the After the Rose, right? Yeah. And that was also because they started filming literally three days later. amazing. So they had to get on it. Incredible. Thanks for listening. Thanks again to Brightsellers. And as always, don't forget to check out the ringer.com. It's my website where me, Mallory, and Tate, work very hard. And thank you to Tate for recording this session. I'll be back next week with a final Bachelorette episode. And Bachelor in Paradise is coming to us very soon. Thanks again to Bright Sellers for sponsoring us today. Bright Sellers is the personalized subscription

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And like I said, you'll make me look good. So come on, do it. You need some wine with your bachelor. Thanks again to Mal, thanks to Tate. And please check out theringer.com.