The Press Box - Ep. 170: ‘Bachelor Party’ With Juliet Litman and Nick Viall

Episode Date: August 20, 2016

Nick Viall stops by this week’s Bachelor Party to discuss how he got on the show, where he stands with Kaitlyn and Andi, his feelings toward Josh Murray, and his drink of choice in Paradise. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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the biggest guest this show has had to date. Welcome, Nick Vial. Thanks for having me. Did I say your name correctly? It's Vial. Vial. Vial. Okay. Do like most people say your name as Vail? It's, there's maybe 20 variations. Okay. I feel like it's like a pretty easy one. And yeah, I feel like people say it wrong with myself. The way it's spelled, you know, it's, It's naturally for people to say vial, which has that kind of like, is that a vial tube or are you just... Are you vile? Are you vile?

Vail always sounds better. So people will be like, oh, we'll just say Nick Vail, which, I mean, it sounds great, but it's just vial. Okay. Cool. Well, we've established that. So you were first on Andy's season, then you... Right? Yeah, Andy.

And then you are in Kailens. And now you're in Paradise. I am. I'm paradise. I want to start with Paradise, although there really is so much to discuss. But my first thing I want to talk about with you is... I really loved your tough love style with Ashley this week. Ashley I.

Yeah, thanks. You're welcome. Ashley is a close friend. I wanted to know like, are everyone allowed to talk to her that way? You were like, you are not in love. This is an obsession. I've known Ashley for a while. Okay.

And she's a close friend. How did you meet her? Just, you know. Bachelor world? Bachelor world, right? Okay, sorry. Before we give it to paradise. I'm dying to know about Bachelor world.

something that really interests me. Like, who's the social director of Bachelor Nation of the contestants? It just kind of happens. I felt for all the time, Chicago was ground zero. Is that still the case? It's funny because they usually cast a lot out of Chicago. And this is not a humble brag by any means. But before myself, like Chicago people never really went too far.

Ed, who won, went pretty far. We all know Ed from his crazy. And then myself, and lately it's been Nashville. I mean, if it's like, Chris B was from Chicago too, wasn't he? Oh, Chris. Yeah, yeah. Wasn't he on your season?

No, he was on Emmys. I never watched it until I was on it. So I'm, you know, I've learned names of former contestants, but I'm not too in tune with anything. Who nominated you for the show? Like, how did you get on it? My friends, my best friend and his wife thought it'd be a funny joke. And they all kind of started.

where she was a giant fan and my buddy Marcos and I would, you know, I'd come over and drink beers or whatever. It was on in the background. And I remember just kind of watching it. I believe it was Sean's season. Can I swear? Yeah, of course. And I was like, what the fuck are you what? What the fuck is this?

What are you watching? And she's like, shut up. You know, like, I'm watching my show. And then she's like, I'm going to nominate you. And I just dismissed it, went over my head. And like, apparently that night she did. Like eight months later, I got a call from maybe. see. Wow. Did you like make a video or something or did she just take pictures?

No, I think she just sent a picture and wrote like a paragraph. Shirtless? No, no shirtless picks. Oh, damn. I'm sorry. I can't believe that. I feel like that's probably I would assume that was a prerequisite for applying for the show. It's funny. Our mutual friend Pete after they had asked him to do it had asked for a shirtless pick. And at the time I'm thinking, send nudes. It's like this is a guy producer and I was very hesitant. I actually almost didn't get cast it. I was like a last minute. They actually debated apparently I've heard. None of the guy producers wanted me. Really? Why? They thought I'd be boring. Hmm. Boring you or not?

I have since been told that they're very often not wrong, but they apologized. Wow. I'm very thankful that they listened to some of the women producers who fought hard for me. Wow. That's interesting. What was the process? Like, how do they get to know you after? It's actually not that hard. I mean, so you get submitted or they get scouted or they had reached out to me and they called me and said, we're going to be in Chicago. We'd love to meet you. And so the whole time, I'm like, there's no way I'm doing this. I just got promoted. I was very career-focused, loved my job. What were you doing? I worked for a company called Salesforce, selling software.

Oh, yeah, of course. Amazing job, amazing company. And so I was like, ah, well, this will be fun just to go through the process. Sure. And so I met them, I met the casting director, and they immediately were just like, we want you to come to L.A. And that was the next step. So I'm like, at that point, I'd never been to LA. I'm like, oh, free trip to LA. It's great. So you got to L.A., you take a bunch of like a psych test, you know, medical tests. Obviously, I want to make sure you don't have any STDs.

Sure. Yeah, that's important. That's actually like a thing on all the, on all reality shows. Like the real world has strict rules about it too. Yeah, I mean, you know. Yeah, it's irresponsible of the production. So you meet and then you go into this room and you do what they, what's typically called like an ITM. It's like a trial run.

Sure. And in the moment. Kind of in the moment. And so they ask you some questions. and mostly past relationship stuff. And then you walk into this other room and it's pretty dark so you can't really see faces if it's like dim and it's like every producer,

cast produce, you know, it's like 40 producers and they ask you questions, right? And that's like 10, 15 minutes long and that's about it. Wow. I was very guarded. Maybe it's why the guys didn't the men. Yeah, they thought I wouldn't, you know,

they thought, you know, because I'm on the older side. So like here's this guy who's older, he's not maybe, he may be a career guy, he might be less willing to just say what he thinks. I usually say what I think. Nice. So it all worked out, I guess. Yeah.

Did it, do you consider this where you are now working out? Sure. I mean, it's funny. It's a deep question for the beginning of this interview. Sorry. Wow, let's get into it. Honestly, I wouldn't change a thing. Interesting.

Okay. And I say that because we can talk about this as we go forward. this season's been fun for me Paradise you mean Yeah I It's kind of weird being a fan favorite Sure Yeah is that this is this the first time

You've been a fan favorite Yeah so it's I've been this villain Like super villain Which I never really got But certainly that's what the sentiment of Batsher Nation felt Sure and that's your talking Andy's season Andy season on Caitlin season

I came in as the This previous villain and then people were kind of like Is he a good guy? Is he a bad guy? So then I was very polarizing Really tough situation for you in that one because Ben is perfect and Sean is like he was so nervous, I think. Like he used to joke about you could tell how nervous he was based on how much he was sweating. And so I feel like you were stacked up against these other two dudes who were like just sort of like poised to like get people to like them basically. And you were like coming in.

It seems suspicious. That was a tough situation for you. Yeah. But actually quite honestly, you know, and it's all relative because I was so hated on. any season. I was actually pretty pleased with how Caitlin's season ended. And the fact that, you know, by the time the season got done airing, you know, I'd moved on. And I had a lot of people kind of like, realize, oh, like, maybe he's a decent enough guy. They kind of at least felt for my, you know, love stories, so to speak. So I was actually pretty happy with the fact that, like,

I had half the people to think I was okay. Okay. And so now that, you know, Paradise is going the way it is and people seem to be seeing more sides of me. Yeah, it's kind of weird being a fan favorite. But having said that, I think it's more fun to be able to say, I've made my mistakes. Sure. You know, I'm not perfect. You know, I'm not going to sit there and blame it on editing that they made me some villain. Like, I don't necessarily always agree with the opinions of Bachelnation.

But the reality is that the guys in the house on Andy season, took exception to my assertiveness and they didn't like it, right? And that was the feeling in the house, and that's what was shown. You know, some people, even though I was a villain, had my side in a sense like the other guys were jealous, but the majority of Bachelnation felt like I should have played nicer or I shouldn't have been the way I was, and that's what was shown. So I think it's more fun to have that arc and just kind of say, hey, listen, I've made my mistake. stakes, this is who I am now.

I think it's a little bit more enjoyable. Sure. To just kind of continue to be myself and have people see all the facets. This is what I call doing it for the story, like in a very reductive sense. Like, yeah, well, at least another thing I often say is like it's better to have horror stories than zero stories. And so it's kind of along those lines of, well, it didn't necessarily, it wasn't like without bumps, but, you know, it's a good narrative. It's more authentic.

And if, you know, people ask me what I've learned from doing the show, I don't know if, again, I feel like I'm pretty much the same person. I think it's reinforced lessons that I think I've learned in my late 20s or early 20s. And the biggest one is just, it's okay. Like, if you try to be perfect, you're going to fail, right? If you try to be like just a pretty decent person, you're going to make mistakes. And if you just own up to them, usually people are more excited about that. Sure.

then you're just trying to be squeaky clean. Right. So I think people would say your biggest mistake as public Nick of The Bachelor would be calling Andy out for sleeping with you when she didn't pick you. I would agree with that. I don't, again, like I'm not my best moment. If I could take it back, I would. So you would.

So you do regret that? Mostly for the fact that, and I've said this before, Andy got a lot of heat from that. Sure. And I. Which is ridiculous. It is totally ridiculous. And the fact that she got criticized and got a lot of heat and, you know, that wasn't my intentions, whether people want to believe that or not.

What a stupid world that she got criticized for that? It's ridiculous, right? I, so for that point, I wish I could take it back. I do think it's, listen, I'm the type of person who likes to put things out there. And I think it's fascinating that it brings up discussion points. I mean, the show has changed since that. Sure. Yeah, I mean, and Kailen is.

Yeah, also like ridiculous that she was criticized. You're involved in more sex plot lines on The Bachelor than pretty much anyone else. I think what's fascinating, too, is that one of the the criticisms I get is that I'm a whore. Right. I'm a man whore. The reality is that I slept with two women that I was very much falling for. It's laughable in the real world. It's laughable.

Like, I really liked these women. And it just kind of makes sense. And somehow I must be just a dirty. Dirty man. And I don't, I'm really not, whether people want to believe that or not. Sure. I'm no saint, but I'm not, you know, yeah. Interesting. Do you have any other moments that you, like, regret that you wish you could take back? That's really, I mean, that's a big one because, I mean, you can't, even like when I'll see, like, positive articles written about me, just because people are always, like, going for clicks and they,

you know, whatever, they want that catchy headline. It's almost hard to find an article that still doesn't bring it up, which is annoying. Um, but other than that, not really, again with the, again with the, again with the, I like that. Like, if you're going to do it, go for it. With Caitlin season, um, like we obviously, she got a lot of heat for that one-on-one date where. Sure. And you guys had sex in Ireland. Yeah. Yeah. Um, after a day of drinking whiskey, right? What was that date? It was like drinking. It was like drinking. And like I said on, um, the after the final rose that season, the ridiculous part of is, is that, again, the reason why it came is because we had this, you know, and I never, you know, I'm never, you know, I'm never going to share. all the details about what happened before. Yeah, of course. We had a pretty extensive relationship, and we knew each other pretty well, especially relative to how well people know each other in bachelor's with a limited time that

you get. How did you meet her? You know, the old sliding into the DM type of thing. Basically, I actually, I thought Caitlin was funny and cute. It wasn't like Caitlin got out of limo on Christmas season. I was like, oh, my God, I have to meet her. In fact, it goes back to, you remember if it was like Chelsea or whoever had the beautiful story about the dead husband. I forgot her name. I forgot her name as well. So I was just like

fascinated. Oh, Kelsey? Yes. I was fascinated about her. So I actually wrote Caitlin on Twitter. I was like, all right. Like I know how this works, but is she for real? And she's like, yeah. And that conversation started. And then she started hitting me up and I enjoyed her conversations. And it just kind of escalated from there. And so by the time I decided to like show up knowing that I was going to get a lot of heat, but I was like, screw it. I like this girl. So you did decide on your own to show up? 100%. So how did you know where they were going to be, though? I mean, come on. Like, yeah, listen, it is a TV show. It is produced. Like, they make, they make it work, right? But the conversations and the decisions as cast members that we make,

hard decisions. And I get a kick out of how much conspiracy theories go into all that. So yeah, So they caught wind that there was this pre-existing relationship. I see. And they were actually trying to get me to go to Paradise last season. I wasn't interested in it. And I made some comment that, well, had Caitlin not been picked as a bachelorette, I might be more inclined. And that's how that conversation started.

Oh, interesting. Okay. That makes a lot more sense. And then they, you know, made that option available to me. Got it. Interesting. Okay. And so then you show up in New York.

and then that's the stop before Ireland, right? No, we went to San Antonio. Oh, right. San Antonio. That was another infamous Caitlin moment where Ben took the shower and came out. Something had changed, it changed between her and Sean. Yeah. Caitlin's season is inscribed in my mind.

Caitlin, I've never seen someone more in the moment. She thinks about what she wants in that moment. Right. It makes for great TV. It also makes for sometimes poor decision-making. and getting yourself in trouble. Sure. Although I will just say I'm 100% team Caitlin.

Oh, I think Caitlin's great. Nothing she did in the real world is like... Nothing. Against the rules. Well, that's the thing. You can say Caitlin's very real. Yeah. She doesn't edit herself like a lot of people do in that world.

And then again, the things that happened between us on that day, I mean, it was the least thing from some like one-night hookup. Right. It was this built up. We had more conversations prior to me coming on than most people ever have throughout the process of the bachelor's where people get engaged. Right. So that's actually, that brings up something that I'm very curious about.

Like, because like how much was your relationship with Caitlin or let me rephrase that? Like, what was your relationship with Caitlin like versus Andy? Because Andy, you were just getting to know her in that environment. Yeah, it's very apples and oranges. It's because, well, so many different variables on any season, I didn't know what I was doing. Right. The world was so new to me. There was just a level of naiveness.

I very much. Did you feel manipulated? in that season without like when you didn't really understand the landscape? Yes and no. I don't, I don't want to get like a sub-but. I'm a huge believer in just being accountable for your actions. And like nothing annoys me more than cast members who like to blame producer. Listen, people have conversations with you, right?

Producers share their thoughts and give you suggestions. But at no time, are they, do they tell you what to say? Do they encourage you what to say anything? It's like, it's up to you. Do you watch Unreal? Not really. I've seen it. But that's like, again, it's a wild exaggeration from reality.

I just, so I was just curious if you thought that. I'm familiar with it. It's, it's ridiculous. Okay. So you didn't know what you were doing in Andy's season. So I knew that there would be this competitive element to it. It is such a, what's perfect about that environment, it is such a beautifully engineered environment to drastically escalate feelings.

Right. And there's other variables like that. competitive nature that you can even be aware that it's going on and still not know how much that's playing a role. Like every day I was like, I really like this girl, but like how much is like, is it because I'm a very competitive guy. Like how much does it have to do with that? You just don't know, right?

And again, I never knew Andy outside of that world. Right. Up until that point. She's also beautiful. Andy? Yeah. I mean, Andy is like from a physical standpoint, especially from her face, like, right up my alley. I would say she's my most beautiful

bachelorette. I would disagree, but... Interesting. Who's yours? Jojo? Oh, yeah, she's babe. My problem with Jojo is... Your problem with Jojo? Yeah, said this a lot of times. She wears way too much makeup. She's so naturally beautiful. Take it off. I would agree, but that's not entirely their choice. Interesting. Okay. Because like whenever she was without makeup, like in the water, sweating, I was just like, this girl's beautiful. Not really her. They have, they have a whole team. Good to know. I've like said, I've, like, I've been.

been saying this like every week for the last year take off the makeup but anyway she does that with all them all of them she seems awesome yeah okay sorry who do you think is the most handsome bachelor a lot of options none of them is because you're i mean ben's a really pretty guy i'm this competitive nick coming out no i'm very good friends with chrysles um chrysles is very handsome ben i'm i was i'm partial to ben just because um um i do think i i do think people have a way of editing themselves. And when you often find the person, here's like this really interesting thing,

the person who's usually picked to be The Bachelor often doesn't get a ton of airtime. Sure, because they don't have time to mess up. There's a level of me, you know, they're just, they're quiet, and they're usually just popular, they don't get a lot of air time. And again, like in life and on the show,

the more you see of anyone, the more you get to know them, right? And no one's perfect. And I've always said no one's as bad or as great as the general thought of them is in real life. And so, but Ben is like the one exception where like what you see is what you get. He is just a good guy. Yeah. And he is genuine in his niceness where I think other people try to do that.

And it's like, that's not me. Right. I'm not Ben. Were you ever considered for The Bachelor? Yeah. I mean, I was slightly considered. both seasons, just taking a second. I don't know if I was ever strongly considered.

I was definitely more, like, I had more real conversations about it, me versus Ben. Ben was kind of a slam dunk in terms of, like, they have their kind of their traditional type of guy, you know, and Ben is that guy. Sure. Other people are close to that guy, that is Ben. Yeah. And he's incredibly articulate. He's very articulate. Well, I mean, again, I love Chris.

but you know you had Juan Pablo then you had Chris and then you had Ben so my I would agree with you I think it was a breath of fresh air I'm shaking my head no to both Chris and Juan Pablo I it was a breath of fresh air to have Ben be able to explain himself yeah to the women in the house it was something that we didn't have for a few seasons

right so I think Ben was great and the fact that it that what you saw is what you that's really Ben yeah And it's not me, but I just know Ben in person. And for me, I enjoyed watching that aspect of him. Yeah, he's like a great guy. He's, I've done a podcast with him. He's like so nice.

It just seems really genuine. He just really is. Yeah. Good luck to him and Lauren. Hope they find happiness. I think they're great. All right, good. Yeah, they're going to have another show.

Yeah. I heard ABC Nix his run for office because they didn't want that on TV. I don't know anything about that. Yeah. That's the rumor on the street, unconfirmed. It would make. sense. Sure.

So they don't want it to be like a political franchise. Let's get back to Paradise. Okay. So, and you and Josh specifically, just if you were walking down the street and you saw both Sean B. and Josh on the street, who would you punch first? I, um. If I never support violence, but you know.

Sean and I are very different. Okay. But I have nothing but respect for Sean. Okay. Well, I think Caitlin definitely made. the right decision. They seem very happy. They're great.

And like, again, I don't necessarily agree with how Sean went about things in the house. And I certainly had my frustrations. And I, um, ultimately, you know, I made my mistakes too as related to that. But you can't fault Sean for his authenticity. And the fact that he just was really in love with Caitlin. He was very vulnerable. And it's like, it sucks.

Like, listen, like he might have lost his mind for a moment. But at least that makes sense when you really like someone and other people. are spending time and doing God knows what. Yeah. And that's real. So Sean and I have actually since done some fundraiser, at least one fundraiser together. You know, we're not best friends.

We don't talk. But I have nothing about, I think Sean is real. And I think he's vulnerable and authentic. And I have nothing but respect for Sean. That's the end of your statement on that question. I think Josh is the opposite of that. So did you know he was going to be in paradise before you went?

I had a pretty good idea. You know, you hear rumors. Like you don't know for sure, but people talk. Like on the challenge, do you ever watch that on MTV? Hmm. Do you watch reality television? No. Do you own TV?

Yes. Do you have cable? Yes. What's your favorite show? I don't, I mean, it was Breaking Bad or House of Cards. So you're into the prestige dramas? Yes. Okay.

So you don't really like wait into these waters very much. I've never seen Jersey Shore. I've never seen Survivor. I've never seen Amazing. Okay. Please don't put Survivor in this category. It's in a class of its own. It's a really good show.

I've heard by people all whose opinions I respect that it's great. Yeah. It's really good. I just haven't. Okay, so reality TV is not for you except for being on it. I guess. I just, you know, I just, I never got into it. Okay, fair enough.

The way that I've heard these shows work is that like people start to get calls and then like within the community of contestants that like feel each other out for like who's going or whatever. There's 100% that going on. So usually more from the women. Of course. That's women. You know, there's definitely some maneuvering, you know.

Everyone wants to know who's going. They want to know if people have interest. in them, you know, you can get yourself in trouble, obviously. You can show a Bailey effect. So when you hear Josh is going, like what's your first reaction? Like, great. I don't care. Okay.

I was mostly, like, you know, Josh and I, people don't realize this. Josh probably wouldn't even agree with this at this point, but we were buddies during Andy season. Really? For most of it. And we were never really not buddies. It just got weird at the end. Mm-hmm.

I mean, I imagine that he slowly got to know him. And obviously, he was pretty pissed at me. I don't know if there was this, I was unfortunately caught, someone recorded me venting to my parents about Josh after Andy picked Josh. Like on a plane or something? Yeah, I didn't realize Steve. Sure. That with the world.

And so, you know, obviously that, I think that was kind of the beginning of that. And then after those two broke up, Josh and I had run into each other at a few events. you get to know the guy a little bit more and again I never really had a problem but just the way he went about his life wasn't just my favorite and so I didn't really have any like outgoing hatred towards the guy it was just like hey Josh is Josh whatever I knew that coming in while I was most I didn't really it's like as far as Josh specifically I was like whatever now I was fully aware of the perception of this rivalry that we had and I certainly knew that that was potentially could be a storyline.

But I was like, you know, I'm confident in my ability to like handle myself. And just I've always been comfortable just not to like be a cliche, but being myself and doing me. Sure. I can only be me. Can only be me. So when I first thought I was like, it could be interesting, could be fun, we'll see. Did you know like how he felt about you? Like was there an animosity on his end?

Um, I don't know. I mean, I don't, again, I would have think that Josh didn't have this. You know, I don't really know, but I didn't put a lot of thought into it. Did you guys interact? I know he has a massive ego. And I figured that might play a role into things. Did we interact when? In paradise? Yeah. I mean, most of them it was more than, it was civil, you know.

Because I actually don't think we've seen you interact yet. Only they really, oh, you have that one interaction last week. Yeah. And they, you know, last week, it's like subtle things. But like when Jared and Kayla came back in and, you know, like I was, you know, you saw me, Josh and Emily. Right. Sit next to each other. And there was a lot of that.

At that point, I don't think there was any love between us. Okay. Another question about Josh. Why are Josh and Amanda constantly making out an extremely close proximity to other people? I don't know. It was the... Is that a choice or is that like... Okay, let's talk about editing for a minute and producer influence.

I can't tell you how many times that as cast members, we wildly surprise producers. What's the thing? What's an example of that? Well, that, right? Like, there is no doubt that when the producers knew that Josh and I were coming, that they were going to see if there's anything between this potential rivalry between Josh and myself. Now, when you come on the show, they're going to ask you who, you know, they'll give you a list of like literally every person on Bachelor Nation who could be coming. What do you think of this person?

What do you think of that person? Are anyone you interested in? So you list off names. Once you get to Paradise for the people who are there, they'll be like, all right, well, this is who's here? Who do you think you'd ask out? So they certainly know, like, they knew that when I got a date card, that of the women there, I was probably going to ask out Amanda. Right. Right.

I'm sure they knew that when John. showed up that Amanda was someone that he was interested in. They didn't make me ask on Amanda certainly. I can almost assure you they didn't make Josh ask on Amanda, right? But knowing that information, they obviously, I'm sure staged it in a way that Josh could come in or I, you know, if it was the other way around and see what happens. All they can do is just kind of put it, you know, create an environment and then just see what happens. It's like putting a hungry person in front of a buffet. Yeah, just like, let's see, you know, I don't know. It could get, nuts or maybe he'll show...

Yeah. Or maybe... Kings in a blanket? Maybe he'll show restraint. I don't know. Like, let's just see what happens. And so, like, what proceeded to happen was it was almost they were, I'm sure, like, just astonished and thrilled.

Yeah, so pleased. You know, because, again, Josh didn't do anything wrong. Like, a man and I were on the same page in the sense that we had a very nice time. And there was a conversation that was not shown where we were like, hey, I, I don't, a great time. And she's like, I had a great time too. I have a really big crush on you. I'm like, that's great. You know, I definitely want to get to know you more. But let's just, you know, we've been here for a few days. There's new guys coming in. I'm sure you're going to get asked because, hey, I'm biased. I think you're great. Like, don't be afraid to say yes if you want to

explore that. I'm not going to be mad. I'm still going to be interested in getting to know you. Like there are other women that I think might show up that I at least have a curiosity about. So let's be mature about this. And no matter what happens, let's just like let the other person know. Sure. That's all we can do. And so. We had this conversation. So when Josh came in, I figured you'd probably ask on Amanda, right? And he did. So the fact that Josh or Amanda didn't like come to me and say, hey, you know, I got asked or whatever.

I don't think they did anything wrong. Now, was that the smartest way to avoid any potential drama? Not necessarily. That's their call. Sure. And then so they go on a date. And I remember saying in an ITM, I'm like, they're like, you know, they get all these questions. how do you think, how do you think their date's going?

You know, I'm like, listen, I don't know, probably well, you know. You're so optimistic. Well, you know, Amanda was someone I was interested in. Also, we have our differences. Amanda is not someone I'm used to dating personality-wise. What about her? I'm, like, look at Andy, right? Andy is more my type in that very strong personality.

Aggressive. Not necessarily aggressive, but big personality. And Amanda is not, right? But she is sweet and she's pretty and, you know, there's a level of maturity. I think she had, you know, I mean, again, you can only date the people in front of you. And so Amanda was someone I was definitely interested in getting no better, and I had an interest in. So I simply said, listen, it wouldn't surprise me if Josh and Amanda hit it off. But no matter what happens, I am certain.

And the only thing I know for sure is that when they get back, no matter what happens, Amanda will come and talk to me and just let me know. And so when they get back, first Josh and I have that conversation where he was just like, again, I don't know if he can help himself. and like this peacock thing. Showing all of his feathers. Oh my God. It's just like, all right, dude. Like, fine, you know. And then, you know, I remember saying, I'm like, listen, like, you know there's this perception of this rivalry between us.

So let's just get ahead of it. Right. You know. I don't want to be dealing with these questions my entire time on here. We didn't see that on camera, Nick. You didn't see that. But that's okay. Listen, not everything's shown.

Sure. This isn't the Truman Show. There's hours of. If only it was. Yeah, there's hours of footage. Yeah. condensed, like there's only so much time, right? But they will always tell the story that happened.

They will show you the feel in the house. They're going to go to the main storylines. And they absolutely show the feeling in the house. Like I said, most of the guys took exception for how I handled things on Andy's season. That's what they showed. Right. So after that conversation, they literally, like Josh went up, found Amanda, and literally two, like four feet at tops for me, just, they were just,

aggressively making out. It's the weirdest thing. Like, I would like some privacy. There was definitely the moaning. And it was just like, oh. The moaning. It was like, oh, okay. I guess, I guess like, right.

The moaning's really weird. Yeah. And so I was just like, I almost couldn't help, but I don't want to say laugh. It was just like, it was like this awkward laugh or like I guess I won't be getting to know Amanda anymore. Right. You know, it was like, okay. And I'm thinking to myself, like, they, the producers couldn't be more thrilled that

this is going up. but no one made them do that. Right. Right. I'm sure, quite honestly, if the producers asked Josh do that, which they would never do, he would probably not have done that. Right. For thought that maybe they're up to something.

But, like, that was entirely Josh's choice and subsequently Amanda's choice not to say anything to me. Now, Amanda and I are very cool. We talked afterwards. We're friends. I'm very much team Amanda. But that was their choice. And, like, they decided to do that. And the producers, like, I'm sure we're thrilled.

And because at that point, I was just so, like, like, all right, dude, like whatever. Peace out. There was one really weird moment last week, I think, where they're, like, lying on, like, some pad kind of, like, cushion thing. Them next to Lace and Grant, who are then next to, like, another couple. That was weird. It's, like, the makeout area.

I was surprised. It reminded me of, like, 13-year-olds at a party. It was, that was really weird. I'm a huge fan of Grant and Lace, and I'm a huge fan of Izzy and Vinnie. But that was weird. That was so weird. I don't know. Like there's so much space on that place that you can go anywhere.

But that Josh and Amanda, like the reason why you're seeing Josh Amanda make out all the time is because that's what they did. I'm sure at some point they had conversations. You're not seeing a lot of them. But the point is, is that they obsessively made out in front of everyone. And it was a huge discussion point throughout the house. Right. Yeah. I feel like that's like good fodder though in some ways.

At least it's like everyone's talking about the same. thing so you can kind of like create some kind of continuity because it was just so bizarre it really is so weird it was like i was like i don't okay fine you know like it was so weird and again you couldn't help but wonder like it was so bizarre that you're like all right well i'm sure you guys like each other but specifically to josh like are you trying to peacock are you trying to rub it in like are you are you really genuine are you just like you can't help yourself by being this egomaniac. It's really weird.

Yeah. Were you guys aware of how sweaty he was? Well, I haven't known Josh for a while, right? His sweat is like my number two talking point about this show. He did it on an ante season. He was a sweaty sandwich eating. On the anti-season it was sandwiches. That's interesting.

And if he got hungry, he'd get really hungry real fast. Nice. I relate to that. The first time I noticed Josh moaning. So he's a moaner, like across the board. Um, we were, it was the rose ceremony before hometowns. Uh, there's six of us left. I had a rose.

Um, so I was safe at that point. And Josh was to my right. And you know, usually before that, there's so many guys you don't really, but as it, is it, is it, narrows down. And you're, you see, you notice more things. And she called Josh's name and he just goes, mm. And I was like, I was like, oh my, what the, what the fuck was that? I'm like, dude, you can't eat her.

And like, at this point, I'm like, I'm into Annie. I am falling. love. I'm probably in love at that point. And I'm just like, this guy's moaning for her. I'm like, oh, like, dude. Mowing is so weird. That's not like a normal thing people do. And it was so loud.

I mean, just like, mm. I mean, so like, that's, that's what he did. But, um. What's so good about Jared? He has the, he's got the most ridiculous paradise bump. It's like, they hand someone, a girl beverage as she's walking in. And it's like, they see Jared and they go, Crazy.

All right. So I'm going to be honest. Jared is a close friend. Great guy. It's kind of like a Ben H factor. Okay. He is awesome. That's so insulting to Ben H.

But carry on. Well, no. They're just genuine in their niceness. Maybe Jared... Jared's not as attractive as Ben H. That's not what I'm getting at. But I'm just saying we're considering the total package. No, but what I'm simply saying is that that is,

You know, it's taking me a while for, I think, to people to appreciate my personality. You have to see all different sides where Bachelnation generally just loves the nice guy. Sure. Right? And Jared is that person. And I think the more you see of Jared, the only criticism he's getting is that he should maybe just kind of speak up a little bit and stop worrying about... Cut Ashley loose, let her know. Not even just Ashley, but just say what you really think, man.

Yeah. And I think Jared, I think you'll see more of that as the season goes on. and I think, you know, Jared's an awesome guy, but there is something to be said. I'm not naming names or saying specifically, but listen, like, you know, I generally think that the people who come on the show have the best intentions, right? But there's no denying that you're on TV, and there's no denying that people like to be liked. And when you come on, there's something to be said by associating yourself with fan favorites. Right.

That's an interesting point. And Jared is a fan favorite. He's also just, he may not be Ben H, but he's a good-looking guy and he's a nice guy. And so, and mostly, again, like, mostly last season, it was just Ashley being obsessed with him. Yeah. And, like, talking up Jared. But, again, he's a great guy. Seems like a fun hang.

Seems like he can definitely hang. Yeah, he's a good dude. You know, but it's not like everyone is like Gaga over Jared any more than, say, other people. It's just mostly Ashley, but it's so much Ashley talking him up. It's like, wow. Yeah, it's a lot. More Paradise questions. What time do you start drinking every day?

I'm not much of a drinker. No, I don't believe that. You went to a brewery on your hometown, Nick. Milwaukee. I know, but like, come on. No, I drink, but I'm very lucky that I can hold my liquor really well. And so I always drank during the cocktail parties. What's your drink of choice in paradise?

Whiskey. Okay. And I was pretty sauced. I don't know the last one, the cocktail party where I, I didn't necessarily warn Amanda, but I encourage her to be objective and just was transparent with her about that book, which I don't know if you want to dive into that.

Yeah, I do, but not yet. Okay. I was pretty sauced. Like, I'm surprised, like, because no one on Twitter, like, I was, I slurred a little bit. But cocktail parties, I would have some drinks. Okay. I'm not much of a day drinker.

I'd have a beer or two. What about the other people, though? Everyone varies, right? Well, like, what's wake-up time? Like, you guys are up all night. What time do you wake up? Eight or nine. Oh, my God.

That's a long day together. You don't get lost sleep, right? Geez, what do you talk about all day? That sounds like my nightmare, actually. That's how you make great TV. Because it's like you, I was like, let's just keep talking about our feelings. I'm going to say something stupid at some point. Yeah, seriously.

Most people, you know, I don't know, there wasn't a lot of. You don't want to narc on people unless it's Josh. No, I mean, like, listen, you, you know, Lace enjoys a drink or two. We know that about her. You know, she held it together. I mean, it wasn't, it's not like she woke up in order to Bloody Mary every morning. Well, what are, like, what are the meals like? They have like, food is pretty good down there.

Okay. So there's like three-seated meals. Is it? No, no, no. It's, whenever, whenever, whatever. So they just have food available for you. There's a, it's like an open bar. Made to order or like, we're having eggs?

Nope, made to order. Wow. It's pretty nice. That's awesome. The food was fantastic. A lot of tacos? Oh, yeah. But they had, like, like, me, you sell the pizza.

That's true. But in Josh's defense, the pizza was pretty good. Well, but Chad eating, a lot of meat? Well, I think it was Chad's problem. Right. He didn't eat. Oh, okay. And that's why I got so drunk.

Yeah. So, like, life after, well, you're still kind of in it. But, like, how much did, like, your life change after being on the show? Mine drastically changed just because I kind of have at least temporarily changed my career a little bit. What are you doing now? You know, I'm doing stuff out in entertainment. And I'm very lucky that, you know, and certainly people will criticize those choices. I was very lucky that the biggest reason why I decided to get in the first place is because my former employer was incredibly and surprisingly encouraging.

Really? I went right back to work after Andy's season. And then the whole Caitlin thing happened where I just, again, was leveled with them about like, hey, this is a situation. They're like, just go do it, man. Cool. And when I, they just had me promise them, they've been still to this day surprisingly encouraging. I keep in touch with them. This open invitation to come back.

But I just have to, you know, it's just like, listen, just don't come back unless you're back back. And like when you're done with all this, but they've encouraged me to like take risks and take chances. And I've had people who have encouraged me out here to give it a shot and, you know, saw something in me that they wanted me to try. And so it's like, why not? You know, and so I'm kind of doing that out here. So like modeling? I do that. That's not a huge priority for me.

I don't want to talk too much about that, all that stuff. But, yeah, I'm not selling software anymore. But I'm very lucky that I, you know, I loved my job. Sure. It was a great job. You're kind of like the male Ali Fedotowski. She has similar. I, I thank you.

Sure. I love All right. Yeah, me too. New mom. I'm very flattered by that thought. Well, she also, like, you know, worked at Facebook. Her job was a big thing to her. Yeah.

And I feel very lucky that I have the support of those people to if I've, when I'm done, you know, yolowing. If I ever am to go back and do something that I really enjoyed. Has there been an appreciable difference? and the type of women that hit on you before and after the show? Yes and no? Okay. No, not really. Do you feel like it's harder or easier to date now?

Depends. Both. I feel like in L.A. is probably actually not that different. Chicago would have been different. I have found that the women I'm interested in aren't the ones who come up to me as a result of me being on the show. Sure. If that makes sense. Yes, of course.

Also, always want what you can have. Yeah. Too available. Making it too easy. There's one thing, again, talking about appreciating this kind of path that I've had, One thing I've learned early on, again, you're never as good or as bad. It is great to be a fan favorite right now. It is great to have people say a bunch of nice things about me.

It's truly shocking. I enjoy it. I'm not one of those people who has been like, just to be open here. Yeah, let's be transparent. So I'm really enjoying you in this interview. But listen, I never let the criticism get to me. But I also don't let the, like, no, these people, for the most part, don't know who I am. Right.

Right. And so I don't, like, when people, like, when people like, Nick, you're amazing, it's like, yeah, well, I mean, I'm not, no, I'm, thank you, but, you know, I have, you don't know that. I have my warts, so to speak. And I'm also not the worst person ever, you know, and so I've never really let that get to me. And I think I try to keep that mindset when I, you know, I try not to believe my own bullshit or believe the hype or it's just, nothing's really changed in terms of me as the person. I have made a lot of friends in Bachelor nation. I hang out with a lot of those people, but I don't forget where I come from. My friends back at home are still my closest

of friends. They haven't been replaced by all my bachelor friends. Who is your closest friend in the Bachelor world? It varies. That's the thing. I don't have a single best friend because my closest friends are not in Bachelor world, but. But like from the Bachelor universe? Jared, JJ, Chris Souls. I don't seem as much because they all live in different places, been a huge Tanner fan. Oh, yeah. Tanner's cool. Shout out to Tanner.

You know, Ben H. and I are friends, but, like, he's just so busy. I don't like, you know, we're all in this fancy football league. Nice. That's how we keep in touch. Who do you draft with your first pick? We haven't done it yet. Oh, shit. Who are you hoping to get?

I haven't really studied a lot, but I tend to go running back first. Okay. It's a premium. Are you a Bears fan or a Packers fan? Diehard Packer fan. Oh, okay. So what did you think about this Aaron Rogers drama with Jordan? It's a very interesting question.

Thoughts on Jordan Rogers. I have two thoughts. Great. Let's hear them. I was not a fan of Robbie or Jordan on the show. Okay. And mostly because, again, I watch it very differently. Despite your conspiracy theories, like, I really, really liked Andy, and I really, really liked Caitlin. And while I got over those relationships and I firmly believed that they made the right decisions and I'm glad I'm not with either of them, I really liked them.

And I was really heartbroken when it ended. And again, a lot of the criticism from Andy's season was that I was so focused on that relationship. I lost sight of maybe the game some of the guys play in terms of like growing up, right? And there was an interesting moment on Jojo season where, I'm sure you remember, like, Robbie was like in love the first day he showed up, right? I'm dubious of him, but yeah, I keep going. You're what? I'm dubious. I thought his family seemed too, like, willing to participate in all of this.

It was all very weird. It was weird. It was all very weird. It was like Robbie had the Bachelor playbook And he was just reading from it Yeah Except you didn't wear any socks And there was, yeah, I don't mind that

I mean he was like excessive with it Sure I like a little style But he's whatever And then there was I also weirdly noticed that every time Jojo Would have doubts about her and Jordan Jordan was surprisingly falling in love

Which may or may not be true I don't know right And then there was this moment Throughout the season where you know as the numbers dwindled down It gets to this point where there's always this one part of the season where all the guys are on a group date except for the guy who had a one-on-one early in the week and the guy who was about to get a one-on-one. And in this particular week, it was Jordan had one and Robbie was about to get one. Now, I'm all for bromances and I'm all for like playing fair and understanding.

But keep in mind, at this point, Robbie is madly in love with Jojo apparently. and Jordan is falling in love. Now, I know what it's like to feel real feelings in that world, and it just gets weird. And you can still play nice, and you can still be respectful of all the other things, but it's just weird, right? And so what happened was Jordan reads Robbie his date card, and these guys jump up, jump around, and like frat boy chest bump are like, it was just like this crazy excitement. So I mean the thing in one of two things. Either they're full of shit in terms of their excitement for each other, or they don't feel these real feelings.

I mean, you can't be falling in love and be that excited about the other guy falling in love with the girl. You know, it's just, it's, I call bullshit. Yeah, totally. And so that moment, I don't know if anyone else really notice it, but having lived through that experience, I'm just like, no, bullshit. As far as the being a diehard Packer fan, well, first of all, any mistakes of Aaron Rogers. makes a season. I'm absolutely going to bring on Jordan. Fair. Totally fair. So Andy wrote a tell-all. I really liked Andy on her season. My estimation of hers changed a little bit, but I still like her a lot. What did she say about you? I haven't read the book. I haven't actually read the book like cover to cover.

Sure. I've been fully made aware of all the things she's written about me. And for the most part, what she's written about Josh. And like I said on the show, I mean, for the most, it's like a... You said it was true at what you're out. There's a lot of events that happened that she talks about. Can you just give me like three main bullet points of what she said about you? All right, fine. Whatever. All right.

I've never done this. Like this is like an exclusive. Wow. I've never talked about in specifics. Wait, no one really cares. She talked about, and this was like an Us Weekly. So she talked about the fantasy suite. And she talked about how she described it is the most awkward sexual experience that she's ever had.

Shit. So she insulted you. That is an ego blow. That really is. Like, whatever. The best part about, like, the thing about Andy is, like, she's never had anything nice to say about me since I called her out. So I don't know how credible, like, people think she is when it regards to me, but that's for people to decide.

So what she talked about is that basically she tells a story, and this happened, all right? Now, in the context of when she happened might not be totally accurate, but I definitely asked the question. And so we had played this game called This or That, which he's just like, do you like Easter West? Sure. Pancakes or waffles. And so, listen, I say things. And so in the fantasy suite, in between other stuff, I had asked her the question, if you would have sex four times. Like, how many times would you want to fuck versus make love? And me, I'm thinking to myself, hey, I thought that was a funny question.

I don't like the fact that Andy thinks if she claims how awkward it was I don't even buy that per se because just the rest of the night But let's assume that she just thought it was the most awkward question like that's a good reason why Andy didn't pick me I think maybe we just have different My whole thought process listen if I'm about to potentially get engaged with someone I want to know about like kind of bedroom stuff and like I feel appetite I think there's a time and a place for Rose petals and can't and romance. I think that's all great. I think it's important relationship. But like, listen, if you're going to marry someone and spend the rest of, I like to have a little fun. Keep it

interesting. I wasn't like talking about, like, I wasn't bringing up 50 shades of gray stuff here. But I was like, listen, how many times would you want to, and I said, would you want to fuck or make love? Right. And so apparently using the F word in the bedroom was somehow inappropriate. And so she made a big deal about it. Now, that happened. Like, I don't necessarily agree with her assessment and I don't even necessarily buy what she thought about the way she described her feelings and sentiment at the time. I can't

I can't prove it. Sure. I will say this revelation really changes the way that I look at your question after the final rose though because you said to her if you knew you weren't going to pick me, why did you make love to me? And if you had like said to her like are we, you had talked about like loving versus fucking then that's like

that's actually like kind of significant. What do you mean? Like that means that you guys have like had a question. conversation about the difference between like fucking and like actually making love yes and so then that like implies to me that we made that we made that you made love yeah and so i just feel like that that just gives a different kind of context to your question that none of none of the viewers had that maybe well like you're not going to get go all the way back to that but again i regret calling her out for because of the fallout in terms of like again i have well i guess you guys you both considered it

making love at the time so like what's next for you here so you've done paradise are you're working on your career out in L.A. Do you think you'll end up on another one of these shows? Well, I mean, I might find love in paradise. That's right. I'm assuming you don't, but okay. Don't comment.

Don't want to get you in trouble. I didn't plan on coming. I mean, whether people want to believe it or not, I absolutely did not plan on coming on Paradise this time. The option he was giving to me and things worked out where I was like, you know what, whatever. It could be fun, you know.

Was it fun? It was a lot of fun. You know, I met a lot of great friends. I made a lot of great people. You know, spoiler or not, the Jen, who I'm currently hanging out with right now, is an amazing woman. And I'm very, I think overall the experience is very positive. I mean, three weeks in Mexico, hard to be in.

It was a lot of fun. It was very different. And Grant and Vinny and Evan and Daniel are great guys. Your homies. I feel lucky to have met them and made friends with them. I got a lot closer to twins. Yeah, and so it was a positive experience. And so I never, never, I, I, I planned on coming on Caitlin season two days before I showed up.

I was literally in, like, I was at work making sales calls. Again, being mad that the guys picked Caitlin. You know, in reality, Steve is like posting pictures of the dates. I remember, like, in my cubicle, making a sales call, looking at this picture of Jared, like, holding his hand up from the boxing match. And like, not even knowing who he was at the time and just being like, oh, that sucks. And literally, like, they're already filming. I'm working. And so two days later, you know, conversations happened.

I wasn't planning on coming on. So, like, I didn't think I was going to come on Katelyn's season. I mean, certainly I finally decided on Paradise, you know, days before. But, you know, the conversations were happening long before that. Sure. So you're not closing the door. I doubt I would. And maybe because I find love. But I like how, how, while you're telling that line.

Thank you for opening your heart to this podcast. Thank you so much. Thanks, Nick. And thanks for listening to Channel 33. I'm Juliet Litman back next week with more Bachelor Talk.