The Press Box - Ep. 173: 'Jam Session' With Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: August 25, 2016

The Ringer's Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins discuss Joshua Jackson and Ruth Wilson's eight-hour dinner escapade, Renée Zellweger's pushback in a revealing 'Hollywood Reporter' profile, and the celebrity allure of owning art books. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of Jam session is brought to you by Seekkekeke, our presenting sponsor, and the only fan-friendly app for buying and selling sports and music tickets. Seekek makes buying tickets on your phone a total snap. With just two taps, you can instantly buy tickets to an event that same day, have your tickets delivered straight to your phone and enter the event without ever having to print a ticket. And if you can't go to a game or show, you can sell your tickets directly from the app in less than 30 seconds. With Seekkekeke, there's no guesswork. You'll know exactly where you're sitting, what you'll pay, and whether or not you're getting a good deal,

all right from your phone. So drop your old ticket app and experience buying and selling tickets the way it should be. To start using Seekek, download the free Seekek app or go to Seekekek.com. Welcome to Jam Session. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. Amanda's back for the Mediterranean. I am.

Do you feel like a different person? I do, actually. Let me tell you something. Three anecdotes related to celebrities about your vacation. Go. Oh, my God. I do have them. I know you do.

So I went on a two-week vacation. It was technically my honeymoon. It was really lovely. Fazzletov. Thank you. I'm grateful to everyone who did my job for me so that I could go, including Juliet. Number one, swam in a bay in Sicily where Beyonce had parked her yacht 25 days earlier. It's huge. Less than a month earlier, Beyonce and I shared the same waters. For some reason, imagining the scene in Talented Mr. Ripley. Yes. No, it was. It was, like, it was 100% that day because that was the day we convinced, like,

some man with a wooden boat to take us driving around. And it was basically talented Mr. Ripley minus the murder. Minus death. Which was the overarching theme of our trip. That's great. Which I planned with that in mind. Number two was we went to a vineyard in Mount, like on Mount Etna, which is the volcano. And then as we were paying, and by the way, pro tip in Italy when you do a wine tasting,

they just pour whole glasses of wine. It got dicey for me. But after I had gone through that experience and we're paying and I spot like, a collage up on the wall that's definitely pictures of Rihanna at the exact same vineyard, which I had had enough wine that I was very vocal in my excitement about the fact that Rihanna had been there. And then so were the Italian women. It was like a real transcending languages moment. Like we are global. Like the one true language is Rihanna. And we were all really excited. Would you say she's the one true queen? Um, yes. She is receiving the MTV VMA

Video Vanguard award on Sunday. is. It's Rihanna season. This is, while we're doing personal news, late pass, while you were gone, I've gotten really into anti. It's like super late pass. That is the, that is traditionally how people have gotten into anti, but you are the latest of the late passes on that one,

which is maybe makes you like the most authentic anti. Yeah, I was hooked with love on the brain and I was like, let me explore the later tracks of this record and now I'm really into it. That's great. Yeah, thank you. One more bullet point, Amanda. Wait, but does it have to

be celebrity related? Only because this is jam session and we love celebs. No, it's true. No, it's true. I'm just, I'm like trying to think. Anything from Paris related to celebrities? I mean, you'd think, but we went. Oh, okay.

Yes, I have one. Great. It's like basically tangentially related, which is we went to Paris in August. And shout out to French people who all take the entire month of August off. All of them do. It's really, they are advanced and we are not. And I respect them. but if you're visiting Paris,

if it comes like in August, it's a little tricky because half the things are closed. However, we had the help of Goop's Paris in August guide, which is honestly fantastic. I don't care. Like, say what you will. I have already,

this has already been like the most humiliating five minutes of my life. Whatever. It's been a great five minutes, my opinion. But also like the truest expression of myself, it was really helpful. The Goop guides are excellent. Like, they just are. They're really good.

use Lonely Planet. Some people use Goop. You know what? We used a Lonely Planet book as well. And it was the judgiest fucking most cynical book that I've ever read. It was like, why on Earth would you want to go to this crowded city? Like, why would you even bother going in August? What's wrong with you? It made me feel so bad about my choices. Like, this is not a helpful travel guide. Goop, meanwhile, was like, listen, it's okay. You're going to Paris. Most things are closed, but there are still treasures to be had. And it's true. We had lovely dinners. Thank you, Gwyneth Paltrow. I'm really glad to hear that. This is a great segue into our true passion, celebrities. This is not on our rundown, but I just want to mention that, did you see that Natalie Portman was hating on Paris? Oh, I did. I was just reading that.

She was saying that the people of Paris were very judgmental, and she's happy to be back in L.A. where they're less judgmental. Where you can wear sandals on the street. Yeah, her example was that no one in Paris would ever go outside in their workout clothes, but in L.A., people are free and just, like, in Spandex all the time. And while I did go to Sugarfish in Spandex last night, I say, it's not my best look. And perhaps people of Paris are right. There's a time and a place for exercise clothes. And that's at the gym. Everyone in Paris really did look fantastic. We stayed like in a more residential area that, because we went on either side because we were flying in and out. No one cares. But I would love to offer travel tips to anyone who needs them. But we stayed like

where the hip people were the second time. They looked really nice. I have never, I felt really, slubby. It was also the end of the trip. And people in California dress badly. It's a fact. I mean, San Francisco is leagues worse than L.A. But on like the geographic spectrum of like L.A. New York, Paris. L.A. is the worst. Paris is the best. And New York's in the middle. It's very true. Just like it is

geographically. It's very true. Okay. That was a brief aside, but I'm glad we hit on that one. Yes. Thank you for listening to my really dumb travel-offs, everyone. I'm happy to be in a Natalie Portman moment, by the way. I'm enjoying all the Portland media. I mean, aren't we all? I'm just honestly counting down until she gives a talk

with Jonathan Saffron Fowar. at the 92nd Street Y in New York City, September 6th. I know. I'm going to New York a couple days later. I wish I could fly in for that. Maybe I should change my flight. Speaking of, can we just go briefly? Natalie Porman and Jonathan Saferrin-Foehr.

This is a ringer. This is a jam session follow-up. Yes. It's very quick, but there was a piece on Jonathan Safran Foer in Time magazine written by Dan Didario. No, I'm sorry, written by Lev Grossman. Of course it was. Yes, of course it was.

But he has asked, Jonathan Saffer and Fowler is asked about the T-Maggazin feature and also all of the gossip surrounding the T-magazine feature, which is, I guess, propagated by this podcast. Right. Which is, I guess as close you can get, like, did you, like, write a, like, unreturned love email to Natalie Portman in 2006 or whatever? I was impressed with Jonathan Saffron-Fawer's answer, actually. He said something to the effect of, like, I just don't pay attention, right? Yeah, he was just like, that's not, and then he's like, that's not a cold or like prickly response. I just don't.

It's not how I think about it, which is a very good brush off. Yeah, totally. This is a thing that really frustrates me about celebrities and people getting interviewed in general is that they are never prepared for the tough question. And they always get so upset and they're like, I don't know what to say about that. And, you know, they freak out. And when it's so easy to have like a two-line prepared answer as Jonathan. Safran Forward did, that really works. And you're like, okay, fair enough. Moving on. Right. We asked it, you're not going to talk about it. Like, I get it.

On to the next. Yeah. I have a theory about him, which is I think he's actually better in person than he is in his writing, which is very unusual for novelists. But I've seen him give talks, and I've read his books. And now I've read interviews. And when he's not his own, like, editor or like, when he's not the one, like, driving the content, I think he's a lot more likable. So it's, like, not that. So I think, like, he's one of the few novelists who benefit it's from a press tour. Interesting. I would buy that.

Yeah. Like, I think most novelists, like, who you, like, revere our letdowns in person. There are some exceptions. I would say, like, Michael Sheaubon, huge exception, wonderful human and writer. But, like, in general, a lot of novelists. Because just the life of a novelist is so hermetic. Yeah, it's true. I'm trying to think of any.

It's, you know, let it marinate. But we'll definitely be coming back to JSF on this podcast. Books out, too. He's a hot topic. More hot topics. Yesterday on the Daily Mail, there was a first. photo spread, as basically the way the Daily Mail does, every day, every minute of every hour of every day, of Joshua Jackson and Ruth Wilson sitting at one restaurant, Gemma, in New York,

for allegedly eight consecutive hours. So this is, let's give the Daily Mail a small amount of credit. Sure. Because we are so often hard on them, as we should be. They usually deserve it. Right. There is some investigative work being done here, which is that they noticed that there were two sets of photos on the same day, one with daylight and rosé, and one, much later on the same day

and nighttime with white wine. Right. And then apparently they had a source or someone who claimed that they were there the whole time. So they put it together that Joshua Jackson and Ruth Wilson spent a lot of time on the sidewalk getting super drunk yesterday in New York City, which I say, shout out to them. You had some questions. Would you like to surface your questions now? Yes, first of all, I just need to know where you stand on Dawson's Creek, the television program. I'm American, an American who was born in 1984. Like, I support Dawson's Creek. What's wrong with you?

I was team Pacey. I had the J-Crew catalog with all of them in the sweaters. That was so great. Yeah, I remember what a time. Tate was not alive then. It was 1990. Okay, just checking. It's fine, Tate.

Okay, I just needed to get that out of the way. Yeah. I, like, was so deeply invested in both DOSC, Crosis Creek and Felicity to a very, very embarrassing point. So it's very, very hard. I'm telling you, Amanda. I was, I was really, like, embarrassing. Like, a really, like, uncomfortable extent. Like, if you think, like, like, pictures in the locker embarrassing? Um, not quite there, but, like, was just so obsessed, so many tears shed. Like, I didn't, like, I had to, like, really care about you. show or like you're just like sitting at home on a Thursday afternoon and they're just like I need

like Pacey and Joey to get back together um like it was really like a constant topic like I was like a spoiler reader before spoilers were a thing like I would that's not surprising search out sides and stuff like that and I just was really really invested like I do you know the website Dawson's Creek music dot com. No. Like it was like, I was like using the internet only for Dawson's Creek research. Were you early on the television without pity? Yes, that was where I'd get a lot of my sides.

Because that's basically how television without pity started, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, it's all to say. Like Joshua Jackson is like foundational. Wait, one more question. Sure.

Was Dawson and Joey or Pacey and Joey more important to you? I hated Dawson. Great. Okay. Listen, you and I are kindred spirits for a reason and that's fine and I just wanted to be sure. We're great. That's the correct answer moving on.

Even at the age of 12, I knew that I did not like a man who talked about his feelings that much. I just always knew it. It was just too much for me. Anyway, Joshua Jackson is on the affair now, which is probably one of my favorite current television shows. And I just am so confused about his last week of life. He recently announced he split from his long time love, supposedly, Diane Kruger. There were some cheating rumors there. Cheating rumors about him cheating on her.

And her also, I thought. I think, yeah, I think both ways. I think it was falling apart for a while there. But then there were pictures of them, like, hugging and stuff. Like, at the airport. They've been together for like 10 years. It's hard to, you know, you build a life together. You can just like disentangle.

The romantic entanglements and the logistical and emotional support entanglements are, like, very different. Give them some space. Yeah, you're right. You're right. And so now he's on the street, like, drinking with Ruth Wilson. And I'm just like, are they dating? Or are they just like really good friends from the show? Why are you spending eight hours together when I know you already have to spend so much time together if you're not like really into each other? Like, I don't know. I have answers to all those questions. Okay. So let's start with are they dating. Yes. Definitely they are. Okay. So I am. There's a lot of group hugged in this photo spread, by the way.

Yeah, I just want to say, so we actually had a, we're really interested in this on the ringer. And one of our writers, Alison Davis, did an important investigative piece about these photographs on the ringer today. I would recommend that you all read it. I was in charge of photo research for that piece, which means that I looked at a lot of pictures of Joshua Jackson and Ruth Wilson together in the last year. Yeah, those two are definitely sleeping together. Like, that's just, like, log into Getty, the evidence is there. It's fine. Shout out to them, both attractive people.

I mean, on the show, their characters have the most chemistry. So the show is basically about two divorced couples, one of them being Joshua Jackson and Ruth Wilson. And the other is McNulty and Helen. That's her name on the show. More Tyranny. And like the two separated couples have so much more chemistry than any of the other couples, which actually in some ways is realistic. But it doesn't surprise me. They're clearly really into each other.

The first episode of the show that begins with them having pretty graphic sex, it is not very, not a lot of chemistry. But that's because they're towards the end of their marriage. Yeah, but isn't that also only from her perspective? I think from his perspective, it goes pretty well, if I recall, which is why the affair is such a great television show. Anyway. I don't think we were getting Cole's perspective at that point. Maybe I just imagine it. Her perspective did make it look quite bad, but he was maybe still in love.

Okay, so they're sleeping together. They're definitely. Like, I mean, I concluded that. I mean, I should be clear, I have absolutely no real knowledge or evidence, but based on my impression, scrolling through photographs, yes, 100% they're sleeping together. Okay. Another observation is that he just has aged so well. It's extraordinary.

Does he work out all the time? Like, how do you do that? I mean, he probably does. I guess they all do. He's a good chance. He is like a peak example of the unfairness of like male versus female aging. Another thing is that men get to cover up their faces with beards. True.

Which really helps as well. Yeah. Because, like, he looks great at this beard. He looks great clean. I mean, and the style's really good. Totally. Totally. And then, okay, I actually, I looked at their wine as well.

It looked like they may have transitioned from like a light rosé to a white. They did. Yes. Allison talks about this in their piece, but that, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. That's a natural progression. Sure. From like the light sweetness of the daytime to like a more like a heartier, fuller bouquet in the evening. just also like at some point, like you're in this for the long haul, you got to switch to the

white. Right. It's just. Also, I appreciate they went with cold wines the entire time as a warm summer day. It's summer. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, I know that you felt that eight hours was too long and like what's going on here. I think that she said as a famous people, staying in one position for eight hours is weird.

That's like asking for attention. Well, I mean, which they clearly got. Yeah, they got it. Maybe they don't care about that. I just, this is the most natural thing in the world. It makes me like them so much. I have done this so many times. You meet for like an afternoon drink.

It's a summer weekend. You don't have a lot going on. And then, oh, no. Suddenly at 6.30, hmm, we should probably eat. Sure. And then, like, the next thing, you know, you've had a couple after-dinner drinks and it's like 11.30. And you're hugging the waiter and, like, taking pictures with fans and look drunk as

hell, which they do at the end of these photographs. Shout out to them. I mean, that's not like a great day. It sounds fun. I do like a day where you, like, just don't really know what's going to happen. You go out for lunch. Then you end up, like, here, there. Who knows?

Yeah. I also like that. That doesn't happen in L.A., by the way, which is one of the reasons why it's like, yeah, it's a real New York scene. You don't get that kind of spontaneity when you are driving around. Right. You can't wander. They're just like at this exact same table. They're holding court, which I also love. I like to go to a bar and just like pick one table and not move. Everyone come to me. My other theory is that they're at a restaurant, Gemma, that's in the Bowery Hotel. So there is a decent chance that we don't have like the 6 p.m. photograph where they're inside the hotel. pursuing their relationship together and then they come back outside. No change of clothes, which is important to note here. Yeah. And they look, listen, the other photos look like they've been drinking for eight hours, which again, respect. I think it's great.

I would love to have one of those days. Totally. You're right, you can't have them in L.A. right? I had one kind of like that a few months ago back in July, but not to this full extent. Now with this kind of like, they just seem that they're having a great time. So much joy and revelry is happening with them. Again, which is by they're sleeping together. I hope they find happiness.

I do too. That's beautiful. It's a long press tour. A affair doesn't come back till November. Oh, it's so far away. I know. You have so much time to catch up, Amanda. I only have like four episodes left.

Oh, great. It got a little dark. Oh, yeah. I was also, I feel like I've told you this before, but when I lived in New York, the affair filmed on this street one block over for me. It's like where Noah's family, where more tyranny lives. That house is next door. And they were just like a far too aggressive presence.

my day-to-day life. A lot of traffic cones and whatnot. Sure. That'd be annoying. So I had to take an emotional break, but I'm ready again. Have you seen the therapy episode yet with Cynthia Nixon? No. Oh, it's dynamite.

Okay. Check it out. I do love television shows about therapy. Me too. Me too. Therapy and prison are my two favorite TV topics. Before we move on, let's talk about our sponsors for a second. I would love to.

Oh, yeah? Who do you want to tell me about? Juliet, I would like to tell you about me and these. Oh, please do. Juliet. Yes. Whether you're wearing a suit or sweats, you spend almost 24 hours a day of your underwear. That's true.

At least 18. That's true. I don't want to get into your sleeping time. Instead of making a statement, like Superman's tights under his everyday clothes, your underwear is probably boring. MeUndies is here to change that. Every pair of MeUndies is made from sustainably sourced modal, a fabric that's twice as soft as cotton. Damn. Nothing can describe the fit and feel of me undies, but once you try them on, you'll understand

why they're called the world's most comfortable underwear. And if you don't love your first pair of MeUndies, they're free. No questions asked. MeUndies has dozens of styles and limited edition prints. Oh, saucy. Ooh, Prince. To help you make a statement with your underwear, whether anyone can see them or not. Shipping is free in the U.S. and Canada, and you can save up to $8 a pair with the MeUndi's

subscription plan. Damn, that's savings. Underwear just arriving at your home. The Alisie does sound great. I know, especially like, if you've run. out of laundry. Sure. I hate doing laundry. It's a great idea. Get the subscription or a single pair if you don't want to commit.

Get 20% off your first order when you go to meundies.com slash jam. That's meundies.com slash jam for 20% off your first order. Meundies.com slash jam. J-A-M

for Juliet and Amanda. Yeah. Credit for your underwear. Yeah. Give us that credit. One more and then before we get back to the show. Let's talk about Blue Apron. I'd love to. Not all ingredients are created equal. Fresh, high-quality ingredients taste better and are better for you, so it's important to know where your food comes from. I cook with Blue Apron and absolutely love getting great meals delivered straight to my house. Every week, I'm always excited to try new foods I'd previously never think to make. In fact, today for lunch,

I brought a Blue Apron recipe that's like these lamb and beef patties. They're really good. Oh, that sounds great. Yeah, they are. Blue Apron has established partnerships with over 150 local farms, fisheries, and ranchers across the United States. And as a result, seafood is sourced sustainably. Beef is raised humanely, and they even use regenerative farming practices for their best produce. Some of the meals available this month were spiced pork burgers with goat cheese and cucumber corn salad. Some are vegetable and quinoa bowl with fairy tale eggplants, shoshito peppers, and corn. I'm extremely hungry.

That all sounds really good. Check out this week's menu and get your first three meals free. Yep, that's three with free shipping by going to blue apron.com slash jam. You will love how good it feels and taste to create. incredible home-cooked meals of Blue Apron, so don't wait. That's blue apron.com slash jam. All right. Next topic. Renee Zellweger, back in the news. Renee Zellweger is back. Bridget Jones is back. Bridget Jones is coming. Yeah. We're going to talk about Bridget Jones. It's back in your heart

because it's never left. It's really never left my heart. So there's a variety, sorry, there's a Hollywood Reporter profile of her that was conducted at some L.A. hotel while she was wearing her at leisure. They made a point of making that clear. And that basically, like, they also described her posture as I believe slumped or she's not sitting straight up. Right. Let's just be clear about that. She has never sit up straight either for the record. It's unnatural. Like, I really do. I know like, school eosos or whatever. I've thought, have you ever had one of those balls, like the exercise balls that you say your desk? I've recently thought about doing it. I have to. But I can't bring myself to do it. What if we made a

pact? I don't know. Then we'd be those people. The thing that I think would be useful about it, is that, like, I actually would throw it at people on occasion when they got really mad at me. Like, at least once a day there's someone that I want to throw, like, a giant bouncy ball. It wouldn't hurt them, but they're just, like, I'm not fucking around. Boom. I think you should keep your chair and maybe it'll get, like, some kind of Nerf gun. Oh, that's a great idea. Can we expense that?

Maybe. Okay. Back to René Zelliger. Sorry. So, there are a lot of clues in this piece written by Lori Sandel that René Zelliger is just, like, extremely uncomfortable. Yeah. As she should be. From the posture to the sitting.

And in the piece, it makes a point, the writer makes a point of saying, like, I have interviewed her several times and this is the most uncomfortable I've seen her. Yeah. Which, and it's important to note, like, uncomfortable as opposed to, like, snobby and not wanting to be there, which is a big distinction. For sure. But the implication is essentially, like, she's still really upset about, like, all the horrible things that we all said about her face. Right. Which is fair. Totally.

And so I have been thinking a lot about it's very interesting how we're in. Nays Zelweger has become sort of the poster child for plastic surgery. Mm-hmm. Even though hers is, if she even had it, she says she didn't. Right. It's really not very drastic at all. I suppose I should say being the poster child for, quote, having work done, unquote. Right.

And what's interesting, I mean, that's interesting in its own right. And how we talk about plastic surgery is interesting. And I wanted to talk about that. Yeah. And like what exactly plastic surgery is. But also, you know, normally when there's someone who like got a celebrity who got bullied and or got called fat or pregnant or whatever. And then they give their interview where they respond to the criticism.

It's like, I'm great and I don't care and all women should be stronger. And there's like a very empowered like. Kind of like Jennifer Aniston's having to post these. Exactly. That's exactly what I'm thinking about. And this is a piece where Renee Zellwerger's trying really hard to do that. Yeah. But she's mostly just being like, it really fucked me up and I try to ignore it now. And you guys are all assholes.

Yeah. I mean, it would too. And as people who talk about celebrity appearances all the time, we can be fairly callous. And like, if someone talked about me that way, it would probably runaway crying. Totally. Well, part of it is that she really became the amount of attention on like one set of photographs that were really just her walking down a street was insane. It was really disproportionate. And then there became like the reaction to the reaction of like, why are we talking this way about her face? And like she, she, she. she kind of became, whenever we talk about how people talk about celebrity appearances, like her line, like her name will be in that paragraph. Absolutely. Which is weird and sort of just like a lightning and a bottle thing that happened to her that maybe shouldn't happen. Yeah.

And I think also she is someone who was really famous. Yes. Last decade continues to be really famous, but it doesn't like embrace celebrity life in the same way. So when she does pop up, it's like noteworthy. Totally. And then that's why she gets scrutinized again. where like is it's like you know if you see someone every day you don't notice the changes in them that's true but it's a lot like well she goes away for a while and lives her life and then comes

back and so like you only so like people you only have like the most recent pictures to compare her to for the most part and then it becomes like over scrutinized and it's it's not really fair it's really not fair the other thing that's really interesting as I was thinking about this and I do want to go back to the part about how we talk about people's appearances all the time we is a like a world and also you and me which we do like let's let's let's be on That's what this podcast is in part about. Like, we're not trying to avoid the consequences. But plastic surgery is a particularly interesting one because, like, what are the socially

acceptable ways to talk about someone's appearance? You can always say they look great. You can say, like, whatever, that you can always speak positively about them. You can kind of, like, you can be like, they look healthy or unhealthy, which is sort of coded for weight. Yeah, absolutely. Or, like, drugs or whatever. Like, good for her for embracing her curves.

Right, right. Or, and you can talk in sort of. them empowerment ways, but you can't call someone, like, fat without getting in trouble. People do it all the time because people are assholes. But like, the daily mail does it all the time. In quote, civilized society, you can't call someone fat. You can't call someone ugly. But weirdly, and I I guess it's because, like, plastic surgery is a choice. Sure. You can comment really actively on someone's, like, face. Right. And just be like, what do they do to their face? It looks horrible. which is it's like a loophole for extremely harsh criticism that we just accept totally normally.

And like you and I have both done it. Yeah, absolutely. Especially like to Bradley Cooper, who I like for some reason don't feel the need to apologize to as profoundly because there are standards of men and women and aging and what's acceptable and what's not. It's super different. But you are just allowed to call a woman like old or ugly as long as it's in the guise of what kind of work is done. Right. And like, you know, there's not a lot of art. about the, about male plastic surgery.

Like, it's true. There's a ton about women. Like Courtney Cox right now is like addressing her plastic surgery and how she regrets it. Like, I can think of like five celebrities off the top of my head, all women who have, like, there are articles about how they regret their plastic surgery. I've never seen like, you know, I don't, I can't confirm that like Bradley Cooper or Tom Cruise have had plastic surgery. No, that's true. But they haven't been asked to address it. Yeah, it's very true.

I can also think of, you know, 15 women off the top of my head, like where I have had thoughts. about the work that they've had done that I'm not the most discreet person in general. So I've probably spoken in ways that were unfair about it. But it's, yeah, I realize that I don't think enough about this in terms of just how savage you can actually just like be about someone's face. And I, again, I don't think it's realistic to say we're not going to talk about how people look. No, it's part of being a celebrity. It's also just part of being a human.

Like you're always, looks matter. looks madder like you notice it and I'm not you know some weird hippie-dippy idealist so like practically speaking it's not realistic be like we're not going to talk about how someone looks sure just like we're always going to be interested in who's sleeping with who just that's just that's it's human nature we just are they're better and worse ways to talk about it yeah and this made me realize that particularly with plastic surgery we we could possibly be more responsible and the thing is I actually support plastic surgery a lot of the time it's true like for like regular people if there's something that you're really self-conscious about or like you know makes

really hard for you and you can afford to surgically alter that i actually support it like if you hate your nose and you it'll make you easier for you to be in the world but having a nose job go for it i think and i don't really support i don't buy choice feminism overall but in terms of why you how you want to look yeah within you know as long as you are respecting yourself and sure it's for you as opposed to like yeah exactly is another hugely complicated thing. But whatever. It's how you look. Live your life. Right. And also, there's just so many different ways that people spend money on how they look. Like, from their clothes to diet products, to exercise classes, to plastic surgery.

Like, they're all tied up in each other. And you're so right that the language we use for plastic surgery is particularly harsh and judgmental. Whereas I think it's related to what you just said. Like, if you choose to spend a ton of money on working out, there's like a certain level of like effort that goes into that. Right. And it's like there's something kind of puritanically. Yeah. Better. Like about it. There's a reason why there's a cliche about like blood, sweat and tears, you know? Right. So emphasis on sweat in that one.

Yeah. But you're right. And like, and Renee Zelliger became like the emblem of like the unfair plastic surgery language. Yeah. And I felt. I feel bad about it. I feel bad. I support her.

I also just another thing that I want to say. And I think everything else we just said is really important. But like she didn't look that different. People need to chill. And also whatever may or may not have happened or whatever weird angle that foot. photograph was taken, like, she looks like an older version of herself now. Yeah. It's fine. I know. It's like you're just not allowed to get old. Yeah. There was a big to do about a variety article a few weeks ago that, you know, I don't know.

I'm not going to throw stones, but I didn't care for it. The article was talking about how an actress's appearance matters. And so you can comment about an actress, like an actress aging or what the actress is done to her face because it's like part of a film, which like I guess. I guess. is true, but no. Like, if you're going to talk about it, you're going to talk about it. I honestly kind of think wrapping it in some sort of artistic moral whatever is silly. Yeah. But within that, I just, it's stupid.

She looks like herself. If you watch the new Bridget Jones, Taylor, it looks like a 40-year-old version of Bridget Jones. I honestly don't get it. I agree with you. I agree with you too. And also, you know, I think a lot of it is just you get used to like, like, if you think about her as Bridna's outlaw or you probably think about her as Bridget Jones in the first one or as in Jerry McGuire.

And like that's, those movies weren't like 20 years ago. Yeah. People change. They do. You know what? You know what doesn't change, though? How great Bridget Jones is.

Let's talk about the movie for a second. I'm ready. Or I'm maybe not ready. I'm really excited for this movie. I like that we learned about all her research that she's been doing for this, like, trailing someone on Good Morning Britain because she has a new TV job on the movie. Right. So technically she had a TV job in the first one.

I guess it was just like. Yes. That's my British accent. Sounds good as, as, as Renee's. I'm pretty excited to see Patrick Dempsey in this world, too. Are you? I was not before. Last time we discussed it, I was like, why does you need an American? But I just kind of miss Patrick Dempsey.

So I'm excited to have him back. I'm excited to have Colin Firth back. Me too. What's you been up to, Colin Firth? He was in a weird movie about publishing or something, like old-timey publishing over the summer. I can't remember the name of it now. That's right on my alley. I think Jude Law was in it, too. Oh my God, how did I miss this movie? I know. It was called genius.

The other thing that René Zell-Wrger mentioned is that they don't make movies like British Jones anymore. It's true. And movies for you and me. It's true. And I'm glad that she's like on our side. I don't know what to do about this. There seems to be like hopeless, hopeless cause.

We can't get rom-coms back. Oh, that they're never going to make rom-coms or mid-budget movies that don't involve like explosions ever again. Yeah, they're just not going to. It's over. I think that honestly, kind of like streaming services and, That's all we have hope for. And, like, prestige cable and will it even make, like, Easy A ever again?

The Emma Stone movie? That pushed her forward, too. That was kind of like her moment. No, probably not. Like, what did teenage girls want to see at the movies? Because, like, that's when I felt for Bridges Jones. I think that they don't go to the movies, so, which is why they will stop seeing them. Damn.

And then we'll just have, like, beauty blogger, like, TV series on, showtime? I don't know. What a bleak future. I think, you know, I'm hoping that there is, there's a show divorce coming out on HBO. And the fall that's written by Sharon Hogan, who wrote Catastrophe and it's starring Sarah Jessica Parker. There is a mini-series next year called Big Little Lies.

Oh, yes. You're excited. Which I'm very excited. It's by my pal, Leon Moriarty. Read the New Land Moriarty book on my trip. It's fantastic. and actually also Nicole Kidman and Reese Witherspoon just optioned that one too. But so I guess like television, you know, things for women are now just like on television and maybe they'll throw, you know, they're throwing us bones that way. But I don't think they'll make movies anymore. Like the money is just not there.

It's really, it's really a bummer. Yeah, it is. Something else I learned from this article, which I assume you knew is that Renee Zellwerger and Reese Willerspoon were best friends. Did you know that? I actually raised my eyebrows at that. And I was wondering whether that's true or whether that's a thing where they were photographed once and it's like trying to pack as many celebrities into a profile so that people

will read it. Right. And Renee would not help with that because she wouldn't name any of her friends. That's true. All her friends were writers. Yeah. I think that I really, the thing I learned was that she took screenwriting classes and wrote a pilot for lifetime that was actually made but then didn't get picked up. Should we pick it up for the ringer? I'm 100% I'm available to co-produce the series with Renee Zalweger. Also the day before the interview, was done. She had attended a day-long seminar on great female voices. So I would love to know who's on that reading list. She's really finding herself. I'm very into it. I don't know. I mean, like, who's a great female voice? That was the first one I thought of. Yeah and Moriarty. So maybe both.

From Stein to Moriarty, a survey course. A day-long seminar is like a lot. I don't ever want to do a day-long seminar. I mean, what? It's probably like five hours total. You get a lunch break? That's fine. She's a busy person. She's got a person. She's got a packing into one day. You're right. I like that she's committed to continuing her education. Here's my thing. Do you think that Bridget Jones baby will be good? No. That's, that's, I keep toying with this because I, there's my heart in my head, you know?

Who directed it? Sharon McGuire, who directed the first Bridget Jones, which is good. And, uh, Helen Fielding helped write the screenplay along with Emma Thompson. But has Helen Fielding lost her fastball? Because her books have not been good in a while. Well, she has Emma Thompson to help her. That's true. I didn't know Emma Thompson was a screenwriter. Yo, Emma Thompson wrote Sense and Sensibility and won the Oscar, and I will bring to you.

I would like, okay, I'll bring this for you. And I would like to recommend this to all Jam Session readers. You can buy the screenplay of Sense and Sensibility. And included in it is Emma Thompson's diary from shooting, which is, okay, it's amazing because Emma Thompson is a wonderful person and is very funny and it's really endearing. Unfortunately, it does not get into her personal life on the set at all, by which I mean it does not chronicle the romance between her and her now husband, Greg Wise, who played Willoughby. So, like, I don't want you to get your hopes up. Missed opportunity. I don't want you to get your hopes up and then

you don't find that in the book. But the diaries are really great. I've read them twice. You can own the screenplay. Emma Thompson is a queen. So it could be good. Okay. That's great. Let's bring hope to this situation. I would like it to be good for Renee as well. It just.

And for my, and for me. This article is tough because she just is clearly is so anxious. She's so anxious. I want her to feel better. Totally. She's also like living, she's like living the fake free California life that Natalie Portman was talking about.

We're like, if you wear the gym clothes, then it must be true. It is not true that you're free if you wear a gym clothes when you shouldn't be. So I would basically like it to succeed for everyone involved and also for the future of women in cinema. Me too. It's a lot of expectations, though. The future of women in cinema hanging on the fate of Bridget Jones is a little disturbing. Yeah. But it might be true.

One failure and who knows you get another shot. A couple weeks. I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's find out. I'm excited. I'm like really like leaning into autumn. I've just written off summer.

Like it's over. I think that's great. Okay. I support you in that. It's, you know. I just feel like, what is this summer done for me? I'm over it. Once the Olympics ended, I was ready to move on.

Also, September's a really nice month in L.A. Is it? I'm nervous about the fact that there's going to be no fall. There isn't. Like, you go from like hot days in October to the sun setting at like 5 p.m. in November and you're like, oh, it's Thanksgiving. And it's like chilly. I need a sweater.

At least it's chilly and you need a sweater. Yeah, I like it. I mean, it's nice here you're around. But there is not like a, there's not a fall. September and October are like still like basically summer here. great get ready for it Amanda I can't wait that and Bridget Jones bring it on um let's move on last topic of the day I want to talk about art books and how they and how they decorate celebrities homes and it came to my attention twice this week one one was when I was watching 73 questions with

Kendall Jenner um did you watch that I did I watched it in preparation for this podcast because I do research okay great I appreciate that and we'll talk about it in a second and the other one was in the photo spread in People magazine of the home of Steph and Aisha Curry. Yes, which I was really excited about as celebrity real estate is one of my favorite. They have one photo, Stefan Aisha, where it's like just of art books. And the books they have are one's called The American Style. One is a Susan Sontag, Annie Leibowitz Joint, women. And one is fashion by Richard Siff, I think.

Okay. Someone's Siff. And which room in the house? Um, it's like in like the living room next to two vases with dried flowers and like a modern looking. Right. So there's, I just clicked through. There's also an art book on the living room table. Yeah.

Just as Africa. Yeah. They're everywhere. Okay. And Kendall Jenner and her mom's home, they had a lot of like art taution books. Right. Especially when you walk right in the, as soon as she opens the door, there's the shot right there. There's a lot of them. There was just a lot of them. And I don't think that anyone in

Chris Jenner's home spends more than 20 minutes a week reading stuff on paper. Okay. Okay. That said. I have two questions and response. Okay. What's the last book you think Kim Kardashian read other than selfie, her own book? I have literally no idea. I was watching the recent I was watching the Cuba episodes of the Kardashians, which were on recently. And she, I'm so sorry that I'm already laughing. She and Courtney go to Hemingway's home in Cuba. Oh, my God. And listening to them trying to talk about the Hemingway and his like, what he means to them was,

what did they say? Like, I wish that I could recreate the line delivery of Kim Kardashian saying, I read the old man in the sea in high school. Um, it was not. And now I love fishing. It was legit. It was so unnatural. She like didn't know what emphasis to put on the word in like old man in the sea.

Oh man in the sea. Yeah. She, it was clearly. Old man in the sea. It was clearly the fifth time that they'd said it while she's like climbing out of a convertible. And then one of them, I can't remember does one of the voiceovers being like, we were so glad to go see Ernest Hemingway's house because his work. his work was like, I don't, I think they're just like, because we had to read his books in high school. I think maybe they don't even front, but it was really, really, really inspiring.

So I don't think that they've read that many books. That said, this is my first point. If they're going to read books, they're going to read books with like pictures. That's a good point. They're just always like flipping through a fucking art book to be like, this is inspiration for my next shoot. You know, art books in my experience only exists for like fashion people to be like, I was inspired by this 1973, like, kind of like Moroccan rug, whatever. They're the only people reading them, which is part two of my question to you.

It's like, who reads art books? I think in my mind, the purpose of an art book is you have it, like you buy it, you read it once and then you put it in a place, but it's like a trophy. But there is like a time which you read it, like one time. And I just don't know if that happens with many people whose decorators buy them book. which I feel like is all people who have art books in their home. Yeah. Do you have art books in your home?

No, I don't. Okay. I once bought my parents of an art book. I bought them the Tasha in New York book. Did they read it? I think they were part of it. Okay. It's on the coffee table.

Okay. It's a great book. We have no art books in my home. We have my collection of Hello magazines. That's nice. Like on display. The only art book I've ever purchased is in fact selfie, which doesn't count as an art book.

and I still have not read it. That was given to me as a present. I read part of it. Not all of it. I mean, you're not even reading. You're just flipping through. What is the purpose of an art book anyway besides? I just feel like art books are-

What is the purpose of an art book? It's just supposed to sit on the table. So I'm not mad at all the people in the 73 questions for having their art books out on display. But like, do they even know the significance of these books? No. That bothers me. It just does.

Like, I don't think you should be able to like perform intellectual curiosity. Like you're curious or you're not. Get out of town. Does an art book even signify intellectual curiosity at this point? I think it used to. Yeah, it's been corrupted. I'm just upset about the corruption of this symbol. What is the best art book that you've ever read?

That's a great question. I think there's some good, like, the Tashan city books are good. Like Tashin's New York, Tashin's L.A., those are pretty good. Okay. There's also a really good Tashin Muhammad Ali book. Okay. That one's really good. I mean, Tashin is, you know, top of the line art book.

No, I believe it are good. Tasha Mahan Ali book is really good. Okay. I'm just trying to understand, like, the place that art books had in your life that they have, like, now been defamed and they can no longer, like, be respected as art books. I think it's more that it bothers me that the Kardashians were, like, so they just have, like, it just bothers me that they've, like, figured it out.

They figured out how to, like, perform a kind of wealth and a kind of, like, lifestyle that I don't feel they've earned. Like, I don't know. But I know that's ridiculous. I know that's ridiculous. No, no, no, no. And it's also kind of like a high fashion model. So like that is her world.

But I still just think like, no, I think that's a really interesting point. And I like, I understand I'm also. I think the fact that they have figured it out so completely is fascinating. Yeah. Like they are lowbrow. Like they are like they are. Like let's just be frank. Like, but they have figured out how to perform something.

else. And that's like bothers me and is also interesting. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Thank you. I think it's interesting. I don't know why I'm not bothered by it because I'm bothered by so many things. It's just like if you can perform curiosity and you can perform like interests, what are people who are not rich and are not beautiful have to go for for themselves, you know? Yeah. No, it's fair. That might sound very defensive because it is. but like I don't know it's just like I find it vexing also as like two people

who really like to read and like to read books that's true like the fact that they're just like tokens without meaning also bothers me but like there are books they're just pictures I don't even care I don't feel threatened I do like if they had a stack of Kate Atkinson books and I was just like yeah okay

but like tell me what you actually think happens at the end of a god in ruins and they couldn't like I would be upset but I'm not because it's just like fucking picture. It's fine. I would love to imagine the Kardashians doing a book group with Kate Atkinson and like Emma Donahue's greatest works.

Yeah, no, it would be incredible. It would be amazing. It would be like that scene. And did you ever see kicking and screaming the Noah Baumbach version when they do the book club of no country for old men? Oh yeah. I forgot about that. And it's like, well, it's great that we all speak Spanish.

And it goes from there. I recommend that movie. I, you were right. If they had books with words in them, I would be upset. But I am just on my pedestal of, like, well, textbooks are superior. So I don't feel threatened by our books. I don't know which of us is more elitist at this moment. I don't know either.

But I just feel more threatened by the Kardashians, I think. Which is, that's my anxiety. You know, you're more at peace with them. I think they're fascinating. Yeah. I also accept them into your life. And I try to keep them at bay, but I can't. Yeah, I just do find them soothing and ridiculous to watch.

It is really interesting. it's the only reality empire that I've really invested in long term. So I think that I'm probably having a lot of the discoveries about how reality TV works and like what's real and what's not. And it's so interesting to watch people kind of manipulate the story and how these things work on that show. And I think you figured that out like 15 years ago on like housewives or whatever. And that's great.

You're ahead of me. No. So I find it interesting. It's also a good way to keep up on like, it's amazing that it's at this point because they are such celebrities it's the best access we have to celebrities right now is that show because there is always something like real and interesting on that show that you will only find they're amazing celebrities as I think also I'm interested in them. They've figured out how to work all the platforms and just like make this work better than anyone else as we saw with the Snapchat. Yeah. Snapchat tapes.

So it is as someone who's interested in like the process celebrity, I find them very interesting. Right. Yeah, it makes sense. And also, so now it's just like the art books, you're just like a vestige of their celebrity. It's like, it's nothing but the fact that they like, someone told them to buy these to like look a certain way. Yeah. But they did. And now they like look, you know.

Yeah. We really worked through this. We did. This art book anxiety. How did you feel about the 73 questions in general before we go? With KJ? Yeah. So my least favorite Kardashian is Chris Jenner.

And she continued to hold that mantle based on her weird cameo of like her doing fake construction in Kendall's room. Yeah, that was very weird. I thought it was fine. I thought their house was not as exciting as I was hoping for. Like compared to some of the other homes, it wasn't that quirky. It was kind of like down the line. I mean, that house is on the show. It's like the ground zero of the show.

Oh, it is? Yeah. Oh, so I didn't know that. I thought it was fine. I think she's really pretty. Like I... She's really pretty and I was actually impressed by like her presence. Yeah, she's got, she's got boys.

Because models don't always, once models start talking, it's not always the same experience. Yeah. Like, I mean, Kate Moss famously, I think, I think it was Johnny Depp who told her not to talk, which like that's another horrible. Fuck you, Johnny Depp. Yeah. I mean, yes. It's a terrible thing, but for a long time she didn't give interviews and it's a

The mystique of Kate Moss is much stronger when... She doesn't speak. Yeah. Which is horrible and we shouldn't silence women, but whatever. I'm jealous that Kendall Jenner is dating ASAP Rocky. Yeah, he's really handsome. He's extremely handsome. Good looking couple.

I thought it was fine. I don't know. I'm not, like, transfixed by her. She's, to me, the least offensive, Kardashian. Chris is the worst and Kendall's the best. Interesting. I know a lot of people like Courtney and Chloe. Yeah, I'm here for Courtney.

The one time... I've never heard her speak. I don't know what her voice sounds like. She's the worst at acting and also the worst at caring. So a lot of times she'll just be like, I hate you, or this is so dumb. Or she'll just be like, remember when Kim was on the cover of K9 magazine, which is a real thing that happened, which is incredible. But yes, I do love Courtney. Though one time my husband told me that all of the Kardashians, I was a Courtney and I started crying.

Like I actually started crying. I thought that was like a mean thing and I started crying. So I should admit that. I don't know what to say. One other thing that happened while you were gone related to the Kardashians. Incredibly cute pictures of St. West. Oh my God. He's so cute.

He is so cute. Those are global. He is like a delicious baby. Oh my God. They make incredibly cute babies. Yeah, Norie is really cute now too. Are you willing to call her Norie? I am.

I'm willing to as well, though. It makes me think of the rapper Noriega. I have a friend who has a child who was born around the same time, and they also decided to call their kid Nori. Oh. I think before it became a thing. Oh, that's tough. Yeah, but it does make me more use to the idea of a Nory in the world. Okay.

Thanks for working through my art book problems with me. Sure. Thanks for listening to my Kardashians theories. I think we really made some emotional progress on this podcast. It's great. It's so good to be back with you. Thanks for listening. Thanks to Blue Apron.

Thanks to Miondi's. And we'll be back soon.