The Press Box - Ep. 175: 'The Masked Man Show' With Sam Donsky and Angelina Burnett

Episode Date: August 31, 2016

The Ringer's David Shoemaker brings on Ringer staff writer Sam Donsky and ‘Halt and Catch Fire’ writer Angelina Burnett to discuss Kevin Owens's big win on ‘Raw,’ break down Daniel Bryan vs. the Miz (35:00), pay respects to Mr. Fuji (47:00), and reflect on whether any of the ‘SummerSlam’ matches even mattered (58:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Maskman Show is brought to you by Seatgeek, our presenting sponsor, and the only fan-friendly app for buying and selling sports and music tickets. Seatgeek makes buying and selling tickets on your phone a total snap. With just two taps, you can instantly buy tickets to an event that same day, have your tickets delivered straight to your phone, and enter the event without ever having to print a ticket. And if you can't go to a gamer show, you can sell your tickets directly from the app in less than 30 seconds. With Seatgeek, there's no guesswork. You'll know exactly where you're sitting.

what you'll pay and whether or not you're getting a good deal all right from your phone. So drop that old ticket app and experience buying and selling tickets the way it should be. To start using Seatgeek, download the free app or go to Seatgeek.com. Welcome to The Masked Man Show on this beautiful and glorious week. We have a new world, sorry, a new universal champion. I'm never going to get that right. We saw the passing of a real true WWF legend. And well, I mean, that's about all.

That's about it for the big news. I'm sitting here with Sam Donsky of the ringer.com and Angelina Burnett of television fame. Sure. What is your official byline that you want to run with this week? I don't know. Halt and Catch Firewriter. That's all I want people to do is much Hotton Catch Fire. Right now, that is there's no.

There's nothing more, there's nothing cooler you could be. Awesome. I'll take it. I mean, Hall & Catch Firewriter is on par with WWE women's champion. Yes. And that's not to diminish the women's championship at all. So yeah, I mean, let's get right into the real stuff. The most important thing that happened this week, somehow Finn Baller gets hurt and ruins the most wonderful storyline that Smark fans like us could have hoped for.

and WWE did the thing that they are always reluctant to do, they never pull it off, they just doubled down and went with Kevin Owens. Like, it's like, everything in WWE modern history would lead you to believe that this was the time where they're like, we're going to play it safe and put the belt back on Seth Rollins. They've done it with John Cena 9,000 times,

and yet on Monday night we got just one of the greatest matches and weirdest wonderful moments that anybody could have imagined. What was your take, Sam? I got swerved right along with everyone. I got worked. I thought that for sure they were going to just go with the safety valve,

Rollins. There was really no reason for him not to hold the belt. I mean, he came back strong. Watching it again this morning, I realized, wow, actually Cole kind of tipped the ending a little and it's obvious, but during it live, I was all in. I thought that it was Rollins.

I just didn't even consider that it could be chaos. Wait, what did Cole say? I'm sorry. I missed this. I didn't re-watch this morning. Cole was going on like, you know, oh, this is like, you know, the kind of the status quo of, you know, how it's been, sort of like, you know, Hunter kind of, you know, helping Rollins and, you know,

Rollins kind of snaking his way to victory and just sort of resetting it like, oh, this was how WWW. was before WrestleMania and, you know, during the authority era. So what you're saying is Michael Cole did a good job. So Michael Cole was great in this match, I thought. Yeah, yeah. Angelina, what was your take on the edge? Well, I always tune out the announcer, so I feel like I'm missing crucial storypoints.

I have to try. I go, when I rewatch, I rewatch with it like with my ears wider open. But yeah, I do too. Yeah, I, you know, this is one of the, either the benefits or the drawbacks of only being a fan of this for like a year and a half. I assumed it was Kevin. Like I, not for a second that I think they would. put the belt back on Seth. It seemed so obvious. I mean, he's so over. Everyone loves him.

If they're willing to put the belt on Finn after, oh, two weeks, it just, it seemed obvious to me. What I found strange was that they brought Triple H into it at all. I didn't, that, that I'm baffled by. Well, that's, that's probably, you probably get that from not watching for more than a couple years, too. You're not quite aware that Triple H interjects himself into every single storyline, and a really major way to the point where all the fans just cry about it. But I love Triple H. And by the way, for all the legitimate criticism that Triple H gets for putting himself over, burying people, whatever you want to.

I mean, I think a lot of that's overblown. Some of it's legit. But Monday night was the best possible use of Triple H. I mean, for Triple H to get in there and to put over Kevin Owens of all people. But why is that of all people? Like he's clearly the dude behind NXT. Kevin Owens was made and like he was launched from NXT into the main roster. I don't know.

It just felt like I'm leaving behind old NXT guy and taking on new NXT guy. My bigger issue with it, and please correct me if I've missed something crucial here, like he fucks over his wife? Why not set that up? Like why not established some behind the scenes conflict? Because here's the thing. He goes to, he does a head fake, right? He goes to K.O., like, he's going to do it again.

He's going to put Rollins over again. And then he, like, looks back and is like, ha, ha, psyched you out. But what's, like, what's sitting underneath that other than just psyching out the fans? Like, isn't it more interesting if it's two levels, right? He's psyching out the fans, and he's psyching out Stephanie. So, like, we had this deal, and now I'm going to turn my back on you. If that was established, that would have been a thrilling moment. Because it wasn't sitting on anything, I didn't understand what it was.

Yeah, I mean, I thought the deal wanted. of it was the most interesting thing by far because from watching it from I guess from that perspective it seems like you could make a really I know like kind of joking about faces and heels is kind of you know kind of been run to the ground but I really do feel like you could make a great argument that Triple H kind of overcame these tendencies of his to you know the Vince lineage of wanting a champ that looks a certain way sure handpicking you want wrong and then handpicking reins, but he rejected them. You know, they won a champ that's a certain way.

And for Triple H to endorse or whatever, Owens was like a face move in a certain context of like Triple H overcoming a certain bias. Okay, two things. I, yeah, Angelina, to what you said, I think that one of the, your brain, you have too much of it. I know, I think too much about this stuff. You have a good writer brain as opposed to a wrestling writer brain. this is just a situation where they had like the surprise was worth more than like actual artful

storytelling and they'll and they'll best case scenario go back and build like build that back in build the backstory back in in the coming weeks yeah right like if they triple h hasn't been on tv since russomania so like so this was a shocking return right and like and that's what was so interesting about i mean that it's not interesting that's what was so compelling about it if they had built it up in any way We would have all seen it coming, like, from miles. I see, I disagree with that, though. I think there's, and you're right, I think too hard about this stuff. I, you know, write cable drama all day long, so obviously there's different mechanics.

But I think, you know, if you had Stephanie and Triple H on screen together doing anything, it doesn't even be related to the championship match. Just establishing their relationship in the context of what's about to happen, it means more. It does, it does create a kind of barrier for entry. I think that I would say normally, I would, agree with that and from just a storytelling perspective like what's the right thing from a storytelling perspective strictly but i feel like triple h just looms so large over that universe that he's the one guy who even in his absence there's the sort of constant subtext of where's triple h what is triple

like during the draft like you're thinking where does he say no i think that's right and to go to your point that you were saying earlier about a triple age sort of turning face i mean for all of that though, right? We agree that probably it's Rollins going face? Probably, yeah, but I think that it, but in the sort of meta terms, there's only one storyline.

I mean, there's not only one, but the one storyline that like we all they could really mine a lot out of is Triple H rejecting the legacy of Vince McMahon. Like the rooted in reality storyline of Triple H saying like forget your

ultimate warriors and whatever is like, look at NXT, I'm doing it the right way and my guys don't necessarily have the best physique or the, you know, whatever. Well, that is for sure. I feel like the, I know people have said that you could all, that NXT could almost get to a point where this sort of ship has sailed,

but people were talking like, you could even do an invasion angle with, you know, the NXT and Triple H and sort of like that, which I mean, I'm saying that at a certain point, you know, the kind of NXT versus WWD dynamic has, you know, reaches a tipping point, but I was wondering to myself, like, how many people, just a casual WW fan is cognizant of, you know, Triple H as the godfather. I'd say a shockingly small number.

Right. I mean, just the way that they, the effort that they went through to sort of introduce us to Finn, Finn Baller in the limited amount of time we had. Yeah. I mean, like, like putting, having the dean. and King entrance on the raw before SummerSlam was objectively, for anyone that's ever seen NXT or whatever, that was a terrible choice, right? But it makes a lot of sense in the context of, like, 95% of our fans have never seen this

interns, and they're going to be just really confused on Sunday if we don't show it to them first. Why is it, wait, but why is that a bad choice? Because you save it for big events, because it's like, and all, I mean, just from a purely k-fabe point of view, it's, like, the point of it is to get into his opponent's, head, you know, you make the big entrance and he's like, and he should be freaked the F out, like, you know, when it happens. But like, you know, and to give, to give Seth Rollins a warning that like, this is what's about to come seems really beside the point, right?

Yeah, I hear that's, but yeah, I mean, anyway, but it's, I think that that's just the, all the evidence you need of, uh, of, that, like, the fans don't know about NXT or, I mean, a lot of them do an increasing number, but that Triple H is like the godfather, I think. That's pretty inside baseball. Really? That's so interesting. I mean, I came into this completely backwards. I was an NXT fan before I was a main roster fan.

So I just feel like my whole perception of this is completely upside down, which is kind of fun. Yeah. No, I think that's what's so interesting about the championship match on Monday and the direction that they've been going is that there are different ways to watch. And I think that, you know, as we can go over and over again about it. But like we are sort of getting to a post, I'm gesturing at Sam Donski. We're getting to a sort of post baby face and heel world. it's never going to be totally gone.

This is pro wrestling. But, like, yeah, I mean, WWE must acknowledge that, I mean, fans were chanting, you deserve it at Kevin Owens last night after the evil CFOs, like ruined everything and gave, and gifted him the match, right? A heel beat up two other,

beat up all the tough competition and let another heel get the win and the fans were going crazy for it. I think WW is going to let us cheer for Kevin Owens, but just still book him as the heel. I have to say that his face when Triple H hit that pedigree on Rollins was like the best in-ring, just facial WW acting I think I've ever seen. Yeah.

He's a hell of an actor. I really was like, I texted a couple of people like, do you think, like, is there any chance that he didn't know the finish, which is an absurd notion, right? Of course he did. But just that I was had, like, any chance that he thought Rollins was. going over and then triblades kind of gave him the nod and he looked like shocked like he was so convincing that i thought there's you know well i mean let's talk a little bit about the match itself it was uh i mean there's no reason to do play by play but but but as we're lauding uh justifiably their

decision to put the belt on kevin owens we don't want to get lost that it was a really great match raw overall was i was oddly compelling and i was saying this to sam before before we started recording just because it was a pretty concise show like there weren't that many things that happened they started with the with the you know talking to the the the four guys who were in the main event they ended with and it was a really long main event I mean not really long but it was a fairly lengthy main event but the match itself was um was really good I mean I was like credit goes to Roman Raines for really like like he's coming strong and all these like he watching him in the ring over the past several months, I think that he's going to win every time. And I've realized

it's not just because Roman Raines is always going to win, because he's the new John Cena or whatever, it's because he puts in a level of effort that makes you think, like, it's like the I'm going over a level of effort, right? Like, I got to look good. I'm about to win the title. And Big Cass, I mean, who was, you got to say he was kind of shotgunned into this spot. They always got to put somebody in there, but like, I don't know. Like, I'm always sort of pleasantly surprised by Cass. I love him. Oh, yeah.

Oh, come on. Bring it out. Let's say it. A couple of things. A couple of things. One, in his video package, he didn't even do his accent, which really bugged me. I didn't notice that at all. You just dropped the accent. Give me a little accent. I don't need the, but the thing is we don't, it's silly, we don't need the accent.

No, no, no, no, you're right. There shouldn't be, I mean, it should be consistent. But like... It just seems like that's like a... Just that's sort of a... An example of how he's like, oh, that's... Someone who was not as green as cast,

you would have worked out those kinks before they're getting to the point of... I don't know. I'm probably being a bit of a cast hitter. I just thought... Who is the backup choice? Who's the fifth choice after Cass? I mean... Cesaro?

Let's say because he's... He's otherwise occupied. I mean, I think the interesting thing... Zane? Zane is, I think Zane would have been a legitimate choice because he was there. I mean, he wrestled, I mean, he wrestled, I mean, he wrestled Rollins last week. But yeah, I mean, I keep saying this and I feel like a broken record. I mean, the interesting choice to me would be put, would have put any member of the New Day into that match.

Yeah, that would be great. So that's the choice. Biggie, I know. Yeah. Bang that drum. I mean, and how much would you, I mean, at this point, it's been so long the New Day's been together and keep them together forever. I mean, that's great. But, like, it's been so long.

Like, I honestly, and just intellectually, I'm interested in seeing what Biggie would be like in that match, because it's been so long as he's been in any kind of... I think that that's why the Bailey segment was actually the sort of crossing segments, but why that was so good was because it, like, when the New Day did their thing with Rollins for a minute, and then that kind of, you know, and they had a little interaction with Sina for a minute, those are like by far my favorite new day moments of their run is when they're like interacting with the w w universe and not just like this kind of island of new day where they cut their promo and they keep the belts for a year which is great but it just sort of seems

like you know to have new day be in the universe of that title storyline anyway I'm getting out of it I mean I totally agree um yeah I mean I just to me to me To go back to Big Cast, to me, I'm not going to put this into words in the best way possible, but I wrote last week about how dangerous wrestling has suddenly become, right? Like, everybody's getting, everybody's getting broken, you know? I mean, Finn Baller, obviously, top of the list, but also Randy Orton getting his head exploded by Brock Lesnar. And, I mean, there's all these examples. Big Cass, despite the fact that he sort of that he semi-recklessly throws his partner out of the

ring on occasion is like his style is in some ways just like like it's the w w the wwee style for the modern era right like not like for all of the indie influences that we see like sutherans and finn Kevin owens and stuff do although owens is a really safe worker I mean I don't mean to imply that anyone else isn't safe but cast is like the sort of hammy sort of like performative version of a wrestler who is steeped in like in indie, you know, international style, but is very much a, a, what, generational W.W.E. performer. I mean, I, yeah, I'm really high. I don't, I don't mean to say that, like, I just was saying that I don't know if he was ready for this match, but I mean, long term, I love him. And I think that there is something very classic

WWE about having the guy who is like the hammer sizewise. Like, you have, you know, Raines. It was that thing they, the riff they did on the big dog name. Yeah. Or like, Raines of the Big Dog, whenever Cass is in the room, he's the biggest guy in the room, is sort of like a dynamic that has kind of always been there in WW.

You kind of are always knowing who the biggest guy in the company is. And I think that Cass is as worthy. Yeah. I don't, I mean, I think he's, I don't, I don't have enough context to understand what you're saying in terms of his work style.

But I find him really compelling. I find him incredibly. I think he's a breath of fresh air with three dudes who I've seen so many, worked so many times and so many different. He's a breath of fresh air for sure. I just, and there was a moment where I was like, they might actually let him stick through that, like, maybe it'll be, you know, him and rains at the end. Like for a second, I thought they set it up well enough that I was like, maybe this is going to be the swerve.

How do you, I ask you this. I asked you this the other day, but what do you, W.W.E. clearly made the calculus that having, because Cass, I don't think has taken a pin on paper of... It feels like they're setting him up for a long, solid run. So it feels like they've

really gone out of the way to protect him. And how do you feel about do you think it was worth him getting the rub of being in that match with those four guys versus protecting him from eating that pin? You think? Pins are meaningless.

You think so? I mean, he looked, he was very, he was protected in the pin too. You know, I mean, it wasn't like he just got punched in the pin. face and went down. Yeah, I mean, I think he's great. And I think that the, I mean, it's been said a million times.

The really interesting tension is going to be to see, you know, how he's relationship with Inzo. Turn on each other. It's going to break my heart and it's going to be great. Well, I mean, in some sense, like, you can't, I mean, I think that you, they have to be smart enough to know that they can't, they can't split him up, right? I mean, it's like, they're like master blaster. It's like one guy has the brain and one guy has the body.

Sure, but if you don't turn those two on each other, then you've always. wasted incredible story potential. How would you even, I don't even know how you do it. Like, because Enzo's not, he's not like, it's not like Sean and Diesel. I mean, he's like not a worker, really. Yeah. It's not like, he's like small, but he can go. He just kind of is meant to be what he is.

Like there's no, I don't think there's a next step for Enzo, unless it's like. Really? But there doesn't need to be a next step. No, I'm saying. The next step is putting him in the main event, really, because he's, because he gets that kind of reaction. Now whether or not he can go, I mean, I don't know. We'll see.

I think he's great. Like, I would rather see, I would rather see Inzo as champion than Cass. But it would be, it would take a lot of careful booking, I think, to really make that work. So, yeah, I mean, it was a crazy, it was a, it was a crazy ending to the match with Triple H to come back out. Angelina, I think you're right. I think that the way that they, that I was expecting them to book this would have been, would have been Roman Reigns and Cass staring down as the last two guys and then Roman Raines going over or or Seth Rawl, you know, whatever.

Cass is the right guy to put in that will almost let you believe this is going to happen position. Kevin Owens is not that guy and has never been, and has actually been, I think there have been other matches where he was, you know, not chosen for that position. But to put the belt on him, I mean, I think the surprising thing is coming out of the draft, he was drafted, he was a low pick. He didn't really have much time to run with the disgruntled low-pick gimmick. I think there were too many draft gimmicks that happened in one day and not everybody could use him.

Then the team up with Jericho, which was fun, but also seemed like a holding pattern for him. It didn't necessarily position him for this. Obviously, they didn't know that Finn was going to get hurt. Jericho, by the way, brief aside, brought back the lion tamer on Monday. This is way back wrestling history for you. Angelina, but like, when he was in WCW, the Walls of Jericho was a different move. Like, now it's just a Boston

crab where he just sits on the dudes back. Back in the day, it was this really cool move where you, it was like, the guy was just upside down and you were bending his ankles back and your knee in the back of his neck, and it just looked a lot better. But he can't do it. Both the K-Fave

and the real reason that he changed it was he couldn't really do that on big guys. So, the question that, like, I had, watching this was is he going to be in the cruiserweight division and how and how because he was because that's where he made his name in the wcw cruiserweight division how great would that be is he still a cruiserweight though no but it doesn't matter like if he'll jericho was holding down that division how great would that be that would be the best running joke slash yeah because

no one in that division right now has anything resembling a personality i love that because my my conclusion from him pulling that out was way more morbid, which is that it's like, is this like good, like kind of like calling back something like before, you know. A farewell? A farewell? Like Jericho's like, Jericho's like coming on so many times in the past several years, but like I don't think. I think if he announced his retirement, like if he went to Vince tomorrow and said like, I'm, you know, I'm done, I'm going to retire. Vince would give him $50 million to stay.

I think that at this point in time, he's just so. He's so important. No, I mean, it's not even a gift. I think that, like, I just think that they need him so much right now. To come in this, in the last, whatever, eight, nine months to go from a guy who's working house shows just because he likes wrestling. And, like, WW has nothing to nothing for him on television to the spot. I mean, he's not, he's not headlining, but he's there to be your sort of, like, borderline headliner forever now. And he's, and he's, the transition that he, the turn that he's made in his character over the past few weeks has been just glorious.

Well, I mean, he really is a glue guy when you think of that Owens is champ now. And let's say there's no Jericho. And Owens was going to be in a holding pattern for the last, you know, six weeks or whatever. And you didn't have Jericho. Like, you know, maybe Owens is kind of in a worse spot now in post-Summer Slam. And maybe he's not, you know, ready for that belt. So I agree. But yeah, so, Angelina, you were, so you're, you were.

were expecting Kevin Owens to win the whole time. No, yeah, I mean, not the whole, but I went into the match, assuming they were going to put the belt on K.O. I think that for, from my point of view, as a, you know, a longtime fan who has been, who has been fooled one too many times. Kevin Owens is just one of those guys. It's like Daniel Bryan. We're like, they spent a year building up that Daniel Bryan storyline when he won, I mean,

deliberately or no, that like, by the time we got to WrestleMania 30, no one in like no one should have thought that anybody was walking out with except for daniel walking out the title except for brian right but it was still so it just felt so improbable on a core level that that the release when he won was just amazing yeah and i think that for for me that's what the kevin owens win was like like it they could have they could have projected it even more than they did and it just seems like kevin owens was never going to be that like i like i lot of Logically, I could disagree, but, like, in my heart, I thought Kevin Owens was never going to be that guy. I'm really happy for you then.

It's a big day for me. I'm really happy for you, Dave Schumacher. Like, purely physically, he's the most unlikely W.W.E. champ since I don't even know what the answer is. I mean, dude has to wear Spanx. Come on. McFoly, who was sitting at ringside. Mick Foley's like, really like 6'3, though. He's like pretty hot. Yeah, but like, but Mick Foley in his day, he's purport. I think to what Owens is now.

And it was interesting. I mean, there was a great subtle moment between Triple H and McFoly. They kind of, they looked at each other after Triple H came in. See, I have questions about that. Well, ask away. Is there some longstanding history that helps me understand that moment? Those two guys basically, I mean, there was also the Rock and Austin, although Austin was in and out with injuries or whatever, but.

Fully kind of made it. Huh? Fully kind of made. Fully made Triple H. Really? They feuded a billion times. and, I mean, over a long period of time, when Triple H was sort of Sean Michaels lackey,

and then Sean Michaels left, Triple H sort of had to create himself into a headliner. And a lot of that was in matches with The Rock. I mean, the Rock and Triple H shared a long, they came up at the same time. Like, they were, like, they feuded over the Intercontinental Belt, and then, like, a couple years later or a year later, they were feuding over the main title.

But they fully in Triple H had some huge matches. and they're precisely the same generation in WWF, WWE. But we haven't seen Triple H, because I will admit I often only have Latra. But we haven't seen Triple H in Foley together since he took over his GM of Raw. Oh, no, no, no. Okay. Triple H has been gone the whole time. And Foley has, I mean, since his retirement, transitioned into sort of like a non-wrestling character.

I mean, it's not, he doesn't even have the, he doesn't have, I'm trying to think of what the example is. He doesn't have like the, you know, Kurt Angle, the general manager Kurt Angle, like physical, veiled threat behind even his lack of physicality. McFoly is a reality show character, or he's a cartoon character. He's a Santa Claus impersonator, and that's like how we, that's how he deliberately comes across. He's a kinder, gentler stand-up comic McFoly. Which made it, it made him immensely. I mean, yeah. Oh, he's great.

He's been really good. But it was like, because he's been that guy, that reality show kind of fun-loving. whatever for so long, seeing him in the same, you know, a couple of square feet as Triple H was pretty electric, I thought. Like, it kind of snapped back into place a little. Like, you're, I don't know. I thought that was, like, that's why I think that, you know, Triple H, that moment was just, there's so much, when he's in the building, there's all this subtext that kind of comes back. And when they allow it to come across, it's incredibly powerful, You know, I mean, it's, in some ways, that's why Triple H, like, the executive is more interesting than Triple H the wrestler could have ever been because there's just so much, there's so much subtext.

And when they make that part of the story, then, like, you know, we, we smart fans really win the day. I mean, I think that that's what, that's the lesson for this whole, for the whole main event and our new champion, Kevin Owens, who, congratulations, dude. And congrats to young Owen Owens. I mean, Owen Steen, too. There was a very sweet photo of them with the belt. And they said, it might have been just a mistake, but they definitely called him the first universal champion. Yes.

Which is really sad. I feel bad for Finn. Well, is there any K-Fave way that that could have been true? Steph said it, right? Yeah. I don't think there's a way. Does Finn Ballard get the title revoked? Because he was never healthy enough to hold it?

I think that in my personal Sam K-Fabe, if you go on the morning show, that's it. Yeah. And he also, he also agreed. First of all, I didn't catch that. But that's got to be misspeaking. That doesn't make sense. That's a bitter pill. No, it's terrible.

I'm watching that. Yeah. I have to say, though, you said when we first started that, you know, his injury sort of like destroyed what could have been this really incredible storyline. I actually think there's a way to look at this as glass half full. I mean, a comeback story for a guy like Finn. if they book it right, it's going to be thrilling. Oh, yeah.

100%. And there's a way for him to come out further ahead in six months than he would have been if he just stayed on the roster. Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I think that he's, I think that he's, I think that as a, as the sorts of fans that we are and the people that listen to this podcast, we are, you know, going to be pessimistic. And the fear is only that he's going to be, that he's going to be labeled with some sort of injury. that he's like injury prone, which is not true. Not at all. But there's a long history of wrestling,

in wrestling of people getting bad reputations just because of freak accidents, you know? It's like, oh, he's not dependable. We put it, we give him the opportunity and look what happens. They're not stupid. Hopefully they're not stupid enough to do that with Finn. They seem to have way too much invested in him and justifiably. And yes, this will, I mean, it would be better if it was the three-month injury.

But yeah, this is going to be, this is going to work out just fine. I mean, he's got, what, six months gives him like a month and a half, two month run up to WrestleMania? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm very interested to see how quickly he comes back because six months, I think, is, you know, the official medical prognosis. But we've definitely seen wrestlers that are, that are, that beat those, beat those estimates. All I can say about my, my, my last real thought about the KEO champion chip ring is that I really wanted them to stop doing those 20 minute opening raw drone promos during the end of the

rawlins name and now all I want is for them to bring it back the guys who are and we but the beginning of those were yeah I mean the beginning that when those Rollins promo started everybody was over the moon about how good he was at working heel you know doing these heel promos right it's the it's just like anything else in wrestling especially when you have a three hour raw now you know I mean I I guess Smackdown kind of helps now because it's a separate show, but there's just, once something works, they give it to you over and over again. And like so in like such multitude that you inevitably get tired of it. But yeah, man, Kevin Owens coming out and gloating on next week is like the most, I mean the most exciting thing I could imagine. Quick break.

As much as I'd love for this to be a heel promo, I'm about to cut the world's biggest baby face promo in honor of our sponsor, Blue Apron. Not all ingredients are created equal. Fresh, high-quality ingredients taste better and are better for you. This is really true, so it's important to know where your food comes from. I am a nerd just like you guys. I sit at home watching wrestling, and I cook with Blue Apron and absolutely love getting great meals delivered straight to my house.

Every week, I'm always excited to try new foods that I never would have thought I'd made. Blue Apron has established partnerships with 150 farms, more than 150 farms, fisheries and ranchers across the United States, and as a result, the seafood is sourced sustainably, beef is raised humanely, and they even use regenerative farming practices for their produce. I hope Finn Baller has access to some of those regenerative practices. Shoulder needs it. Some of the meals available in September are paprika, spice, shrimp, and cheddar grits with

tomato and sweet corn. I'm a huge shrimp and grits guy. I need to make that shirt. Spicy hoist and chicken stir fry with baby bok choy. at sesame, ginger, cucumber salad. You can check out this week's menu and get your first three meals free with free shipping by going to blue apron.com slash masked, M-A-S-K-E-D. You'll love how good it feels, how good it tastes, and, wait, sorry, let's do that over.

You'll love how good it feels and taste to create incredible home-cooked meals with Blue Apron. So don't wait, man. That's blueapron.com slash masked. Blue Apron's a better way to cook. Quick transition. We talked really briefly about McFoley and how he's sort of in this post-wrest wrestling stage of his career. This is the time, I think, to briefly touch on Daniel Bryan, who I don't know if you guys caught what happened last night after Smackdown. But two weeks ago, Brian and the Miz getting this big argument about, well, I mean, basically it's Brian sort of shooting and saying he doesn't like the Miz's wrestling style. and Ms. saying, like, well, your wrestling style ended your career way too early, and now no one gets to see you wrestle.

And then they, correct me if I get anything wrong here. On Monday Night Raw, I mean, everybody spent a week saying, holy crap, was that a shoot? Was that a war? And I think that the answer is somewhere in between. Like, it's pretty clear that they've decided to not script these talking smack shows or a lot of, there's a lot of shows that are going off of bullet points now. but Monday Night Raw they promote, they do have a video package

that someone spent time on that promotes Ms. and Daniel Bryan having a face off on SmackDown. Smackdown comes and all that there's a backstage segment with Shane and Daniel Brian where Shane says you should apologize and then nothing else happens until talking smack when Brian sort of

says what like sort of explains the whole thing. I was so, yeah, I was so disappointed in the promo when it seemed like they were ruining this organic worked shoot moment. And then when Brian on Talking Smack, which by the way the best show in WWW right now is not Smackdown or

Raw, it's Talking Smack. When he said that Yeah. It really is. It's been my favorite twigs in Europe. When he said that WWV is not letting us interact with each other. I'm so back in. I'm like oh, it's a worked shoot again.

Yeah, it's really weird. They found a way they really did pull rather than. On Monday night, they ruined everything. I texted you, Sam, and said, like, I can't, like, of course, they found the one way to take all the air out of one of the most interesting things that happened by bringing it into a storyline. Now, that's always what happens in wrestling, right? As soon as CM Punk, CM Punk walks out of the WWE, and it's the most interesting thing that's ever happened. But he's got to come back, and the moment he comes back, it ceases to be interesting, right? Like, to capitalize off any of these moments, they have to make it part of the fabric of the show.

and that's not that makes it worse like by definition almost um but yeah the uh i'm trying to pull up the script right here oh yeah so so brian explained um this week on talking smack that uh if he he he agreed with what the miss said he said quote if i had the guts if i had any guts i would quit and go do the indies probably not bingo halls more like Tokyo domes um but you know he goes on to say he's He's got family to worry about. He's trying to have kids with Bree. And, like, there's those concerns. I'm sure collecting the paycheck is more important for those outside the ring matter issues.

And then he closed by saying, this is a quote, which is why they're not letting us do anything on TV together anymore, because they're like, okay, Brian, Miz, you guys are done. The implication clearly being that, like, despite trying to catch lightning in the bottle and turning it into an on-screen storyline, and WWE realized that putting them in the ring together just to yell at each other will lead everyone to believe that Daniel Bryan's got one last match and all and it's only gonna, we're only gonna be let down when Daniel Brian's like, and my avatar, Dolf Ziegler, is gonna come wrestle you.

Right, and they, right, and he made it, it's clear that they are not having them interact for the reasons you just stated, except when Brian said it on Talking Smack, it seemed like, oh, they're not letting them interact because they don't want them to shoot fight on SmackDown. It seemed like that that was what he was getting at, which is not the case, obviously.

Is it? Is, so I go back and forth on the level of scripting that Talking Smack a week ago had. I mean, like I said, I think that they're, it feels like WWE has made the decision, starting at the draft, to let people talk off the cuff a little bit. You know, I mean,

and just see how it all shakes out. out, see who's good at it, see how fans react. And I think that's a great thing. If that talking smack interaction between the Mizz and Daniel O'Brien was scripted to any degree, like even with bullet points, the MIS might be the best actor in WWE because he seemed so legitimately shook the whole, even when he, like, got on a roll, it was like how I imagine myself cutting promos, where I'm just like freaking out the entire time. and when the camera stopped rolling,

I would just be like, did I say words? You know, like that's what it felt like was going to the Miz's head, and it was really compelling because of that. I mean, I think there has to be some truth to it, some shoot to it, because he tapped into something very clearly because on SmackDown, I mean, Dolf ruined it,

you know, by being, like you said, an avatar, but the Miz half of that promo segment was good. He, like, kept it going, I thought he was like... Here's the thing we should. should never forget about the miss he got his start on the real world and many many many seasons of the real old road world's challenge which is my favorite show on television um that and the entire everybody on that show the whole point is to is it's all a work shoot right the whole point is to be committed and believable when you lose your shit on whoever's

screwing your girlfriend he's he is so much better practiced at this than anyone else on that roster. I mean, of course he's acting. Of course it's a work shoot. Like there's, there's no question. And he just happens to be the most skilled at that, that one thing. I just, I've always thought about the real world in general, the whole franchise. And this is, this extends to all of reality television pretty much now. But I remember watching in the early days and thinking how much of a mind fuck it would be to talk about, to talk in the present tense about something that happened four days ago, just over and over again. And I, and that, and to do that, you either have to be an incredible actor, like not, I mean, not a trained actor, but you have to have that

sort of like those acting skills, or like you're going to go insane because that's just weird. That's a weird thing for a person that, now in 2016, probably less a weird thing because we're all born and raised on this stuff. But yeah, so is there anything else, is there any other takeaway from our brief fling with the Ms. and Daniel Bryan shoot feud other than Ms. and Dawzigler are wrestling at the pay-per-view? Yeah, my takeaway is that Ms. needs to go over. I think Dahl

gives me nothing. Nothing. I'm just not in until his heel turn. Do it at Backlash. Have Ms. go over clean and then have Dolf just snap. Is that what's next?

Backlash? Yeah. I can't keep track. Lord of mercy. I need Ms. to keep this going. The pay-per-view names and the off months

just, it's impossible for it to keep them straight. Flash forward, backflash, what? I was, I'm a big proponent. of the Dove Ziegler heel turn, despite saying, you know, the era of faces and heels, whatever is over.

Like, Dov Ziegler needs a Rick Flair robe and like, and like different entrance music. And he needs to like, you know, just to do the, the Rick Rood, like pelvic thrusts to all the fat slabs in the crowd. Like he needs to be, he needs to just reset. Or another option would be to really take on the Daniel Bryan's avatar role fully, put him in some like maroon tights and let him grow a big beard. and then just give him all of the

bookings, all the storylines that you would have given Daniel Bryan. It won't work. No, but it would be really compelling to watch if they just leaked that out. That would be really weird. I also found it ironic when Dolph was going in on MIS for wanting to be famous

because my like casual sense of Dolph is that Dolph would not mind being famous. Well, that's such a hilarious insult to hurl at some, at a pro wrestler. Like, why are any of you here? Yeah. I mean, I think Dove Ziegler, I think Dove Ziegler is, and I think maybe this is a problem with his character writ large. Dov Ziegler is certainly interested in the, it's not like the trappings of celebrity.

He is interested, like, his personal interests are things are, like, celebrity adjacent things, right? Like, he's interested in stand-up comedy, you know, whatever. But I'm not sure that I'd have. core, he really wants to be famous. I think that he would like, he would, I think he would rather be, I think he would rather be, you know, Zach Galfanakis than Will Farrell. Sure, but at the same time, the, like, amateur wrestling, like, Jim Rat, Underdog vibe is like, it's not, it's just not happening, right?

Oh, no, no, no, no. I, yeah, there's, they need to figure something out, and I don't, and whatever. No one knows what the answer is. Oh, yeah, and listen, to WWB's credit, Sometimes there is a benefit to inaction. If they're not going to get it right, we don't want the Cisaro situation of like, we're going to give him a beret every other week

or something to try to make him subtly different. You know, like, if you can't, if you don't know what you're doing, sometimes the answer is to not do it, is to not do anything, you know? Was there a beret? There was a beret. Oh, that's so unfortunate.

I mean, it's happened so many times. I love Cizaro. What's with the indignity? I don't understand. They just spent, I mean, and it's so happy, he's got the tearaway suit is a relatively new thing in the sunglasses. I kind of love the tarotway suit, I won't lie. But like it's like they know they have like the, it's like, you know,

the creative character in the WW video game. And in 2K, it's like you have everything you want except for a gimmick. And instead of just sort of embracing that as the gimmick and the way they've done, you know, wrestlers in the past or like Chris Benoit or, you know, something like that. And letting it grow, they just keep throwing weird little flurries. on them with hopes that that'll catch on. It's just sort of, it's never going to work.

Sam? Well, yeah, I just think if they're going to do it, they've got to do it now while he's still, he still has that main event feud, like, not too far away in his rear view. Like, I just feel like that's kind of the angle, right? He was going to try his best. He was going to sort of turn over a new leaf, and he was going to really earnestly give it a go. and he just sucked. He lost.

He lost clean. He lost bad. It's like a... That's the turn. Yeah. I mean, it's like they keep making the, they keep like projecting that something's going to happen and then they always run out of time for it to happen.

Right. Before we get off Smackdown, the only other, the only real note that I have about it is that, is that I love, the headbangers debuted on Tuesday night, which is just insane. They're a tag team of, like, they're, just like grunge kids from the 90s and they were semi-famous wrestlers in the 90s and they brought them back because they need tag teams and they need something

resembling star power. Is this a contract or is this like a one-off? Well, they lost in their first match. We'll see. But now Smackdown is the home to the headbangers, Rhino, Kurt Hawkins is about to return. It was not an attitude-era guy, but a former

wrestler. Shelton Benjamin was announced on the first Smackdown. I don't even know if they've said anything. since then. He got injured. Oh, he got hurt? I totally missed this. I'm pretty sure he's like out. Like, he's like announced it's not happening because he got injured.

But they got, but I mean, but Smackdown is is the home of all of these sort of retreads now, which is sort of interesting for people like me, but I can't imagine, like, do you, Angelina, do you watch something like that happening? I don't watch SmackDown. Oh, well, you got to, this week was not a terrible, not a terrible thing to miss. Shelton Torres Rotator cuff. That's a bad break. Oh, that's tough.

Yeah. Man, that's too bad. But anyway, I mean, so my question is in KFave, why doesn't SmackDown sign the Dudley Boys now that they're released from Raw? Like, isn't that the perfect home for them? I thought they were on SmackDown. They're not? No, they were.

They got drafted to Raw, and then now they're just retired. Or they left WWE. Oh. I thought that was going to be a research. So that's what I assumed was going to, was going to happen. Oh, you think they are going to turn up there? No, no. I thought that there was going to be a situation where they split up,

I thought they were like kind of hinting toward a split and that they were, I'm like going, and I thought that they were going to let Bubba kind of like have his heel singles. Like I thought they were going to split him up because they needed the singles guys and Bubba's proven that you can do that. And I thought they were going to maybe have Devon go to Smackdown or something. No, they're definitely gone from WWE. Oh, well, there you go.

Also gone from WWE apparently is Alberto Del Rio who like is, who had an out in his contract and has exercised it. After his 30-day suspension, I don't think he's ever, he's going to be coming back, which is another weird. I mean, with the hype they brought him back with last year. Last year, yeah. Last year. I mean, for, I mean, I had higher hopes for the League of Nations, and that was stupid of me. Why?

I think I just liked all the people that were in it, and I thought it was a good, it was a good kind of traditional heel troop, you know? Like, they could have done, and trope, they could have done something interesting with it. But they, they, they, it was clear that they were never, I mean, in retrospect, and probably at the time. it should have been clear that they were never interested in promoting it at all. Anyway, Del Rio was over before it started the way they debuted. I hope that this doesn't have any, this doesn't affect pages employment in WWE. That's my, I mean, I love Del Rio. Del Rio is one of the, talking about Kevin Owen's facial expressions after he won the belt

or as that, in the end game to that match. The ability to like project the storyline on your face while you're in a ring is a a real, really important wrestling skill that most people don't have. And Del Rio is one of the few people who do, who does have it. Like, he just does all the little things in the ring right. And that doesn't mean that he's automatically, he should have been a headliner, but it's just sad to see, I mean, people with specific skill sets like that go. Um, you know, whatever. It seems to be his choice. So I'm not, I'm not going to lament or I'm not going to, you know, yeah, lament it too much. Hopefully he'll, he'll be happy in his.

future endeavors. All right. The one thing that happened this week outside of the ring that's, you know, everybody's been talking about, is the passing of the great wrestling manager, and wrestler, Mr. Fuji. We hadn't seen him in a while.

This isn't some tragedy. He was an older guy. But, you know, sort of like, I mean, there's absolutely no parallel between him and Gene Wilder, except that, like, except that, like, I would, you know. They both wore a hat. They did.

They both were famous for hats and, like, unnecessarily elaborate suiting. And they had both been out of the public eye enough to, like, I don't mean this in, like, a snarky way, but, like, you know, if someone told you they died five years ago, you might not be totally shocked. You know, I mean, they had sort of. I was actually, I thought Gene Wilder died a long time ago. I was really surprised. Yeah, but exactly.

But Mr. Fuji was I mean Mr. Fuji got an obit in the New York Times, man. I mean, that's pretty exciting, right? Yeah. I mean, that's good for him, and he earned it. Mr. Fuji was a funny one. He had a great career as a wrestler. And then, but for everyone listening to this,

especially people of my generation, he had a much more significant, he had a much more significant career as a manager, a heel manager to, I guess my earliest memories were like the rock Don Morocco, the original rock, by the way. Remember, he was really mad when WWE started calling Dwayne Johnson the rock. And then they keep saying most famously as the manager for Yoko Zuna, he always seemed like such a throw-in to the Yoko Zuna deal. And I loved him much more when he was in the in the tuxedo and bowler hat and throwing salt in people's faces. But like, I guess that's,

that's how the younger generation must remember him more. I mean, that's all, that's my only memory of him is the costing Brett Hart, the championship at WrestleMania with the salt and the eyes and then challenging for no reason whatsoever, issuing an open challenge after the WrestleMania main event. And, you know, Hulk just ended up being there. And then he, Mr. Fuji tried to throw salt in Hulk's eyes and he missed and, and threw it in Yokozuna's eyes and that was that. Yeah, well, see, Hogan's, Hogan had faced the,

I mean, had faced off against Mr. Fuji and his cadre of evil wrestlers so many times that there was probably nobody better equipped at dodging the salt than Hulk Hogan. My first, I think my first ever live wrestling show was Hulk Hogan versus Killer Con, who was a very, it was a very brief feud for Hogan. Killer Khan was probably more notable for fake breaking Andre the Giants' leg. But Fuji Managed Khan. There was a lot of sort of, you know, typecasting. If there was like an Asian villain, Mr. Fuji was brought in as the manager.

And the suit, I guess, was a, I don't know if homage is even if that's too generous a word. But he was supposed to look like odd job. who from my favorite bond henchman I think everybody's bond henchman a weird thing for me is you know I've just thought too much about how racist wrestling is but like I always I always read Mr. Fuji as a sort of a much more racist character

than he actually was huh he's clearly like embracing lots of stereotype but like I don't know I think maybe just because I didn't like yeah until I was in a I mean as a younger viewer not as a kid but like in my college age in my early 20s, yeah, I just kind of assumed, maybe assumed a little bit too much about the WWF's intentions with this character. They were just ripping off odd job.

They weren't playing off of like, this wasn't like the Jerry Lewis Asia, you know, Chinese stereotype or whatever. When he changed his dress for when he started managing Yoko Zuna, right? Yeah, he wore like the traditional robes, which was. And he had the Japanese flag. Yeah, they're both Hawaiian, which was kind of the great thing about that. Oh, he wasn't even Japanese? He's Japanese-American.

He's, yeah. Oh, okay. So he's not Samoan. So when you say Hawaiian in the context of wrestling, I think, isn't Yokozuna from Hawaii? Am I crazy? Yo-Gizuna, but I think Mr. Fuji's Japanese-American. Yeah, but born in Hawaii, right? Yeah, yeah.

But yes. Weirdly, the guy that played odd job was also briefly a professional wrestler. I don't think that's, I don't know if that's weird. I think maybe in like the, in like the 70s, like anybody who was really muscular was at some point professional wrestler. You just, you know, you got, somebody just offered you some money to go do it. And my, my other memory is,

this might not have happened. I might have just made this up, but the Yoguzuna then had his face turn, and then they started carrying, he switched flags. I think he started carrying the American flag. The American flag. That happened.

That was, so, yes, I'm glad you brought that up because that was, the weird thing about, the weird thing about Mr. Fuji is for someone who's born in Honolulu was Japanese American to his dying date did not like it was almost like the professional athlete

who insists on using a translator even though they can speak English like the like Yao Ming Tate who are the other great examples of athletes who use translators who don't need them Oh well all in baseball Yeah everyone in baseball

But like I have no idea how great Yeah, I have no idea how good Mr. Fuji's English was, but it seemed like it was just not, like he could, like no one could understand him until you got to know him. He was also a notorious prankster backstage. Like he was just like, and all of the pranks, all of the ribs just seem like when you hear people talk about him,

it doesn't seem like they were, like they love talking about Mr. Fuji ribbing them, but it doesn't seem like they were good or fun ribs at all, which just goes to his mindset a little bit. How did you guys feel, as people who are clearly fans, about that video package they did, memorializing him on Raw? Which was one of the more bizarre things I think. Why was it bizarre to you? Because it felt like it came out of a time capsule. It felt like they made it in 1989, and it's just been sitting on a shelf waiting for him to die.

I think it was repurposed from his Hall of Fame induction, or it could have been repurposed from his Hall of Fame induction, which was not that long ago. But I think it might be like the Wall Street Journal Obitz Department where they just have these things ready to go. what it felt like. But then there was the moment where they were like, and part of some of the greatest TV parodies in the history of time. And then they cut to like one of the most low rent, terribly written, most awkward clips.

Those Mr. Fuji and Don Morocco, the Fuji Vice and there were a couple other ones, those deserve a deep dive because that was one of the weirdest things that WWE ever produced. Talk about like, talk about messing with K-Fabe. Like those, they were just doing like, comedy segments. Were they funny though?

Because the clip they showed was like, they were not funny at all. They were... Like out of this is terrible.com or something. I feel like this was when Miami Vice was so popular that just...

Just the fact that there were two wrestlers pretending. Miami Vice is like the hilarious joke. That is my guess. I watched this... Yeah, no, no. It was... Two minutes of it on YouTube.

That was WWE trying to coast off of the popularity of Miami Vice, but also it was them trying to make their own thing. It's the never... running Vince McMahon quest to, like, create content that will transcend wrestling. And in some ways, that certainly did because it was just so bad. Yeah, that, that video package was...

It was dreadful. Could have been made, like, 10 years ago. Yeah. The point I was trying to make earlier was that Mr. Fuji was like always this, like, he could never, like, he was a great heel manager because you can never understand what he was saying. Um, he managed demolition in their heel heyday. He did, he managed a lot of people. Um, but the, but the important thing, sir bringing this back around to what you said sam about that yoko zuna face turn was that he was always weirdly he was a throw-in to the yoko zuna deal it was jim cornet was the real like heel manager and and fuji was sort of the attendant when yoko zuna turned face and brought fuji with usually when you turn face you you you dispatch your heel manager he got i think he got rid of cornet i think that was

that was the thing that was the thing but he got he kept fuji and so subtly that was also the face turn for mr Fuji, which fans of my generation had been dying for forever because Mr. Fuji was such a part of our lives. He was that wrestler who never really got his baby face run until that, you know, brief Yoko Zuna turn. The thing that I, I, like, rewatch, like, just kind of highlights from a couple of the Fuji Yoko Zuna matches that, first of all, there's just, I mean, you realize that, managers really just are, it's just obsolete now. There's Heyman and that's it. Yeah.

For male managers? And he's not even a manager. I mean, when I wrote about Hawk of the Road Warriors in my book, I made a joke that like one of the great things about the heel manager was that it, for monstrous wrestlers, which were a lot of the managers,

you know, a lot of the people they represented were these giant monsters. It answered these sort of like, like these kind of lingering questions, like, does, you know, the berserker have a checking account? You know, like it's, which is really helpful. But if you go back and read the Wikipedia page, I suggest, for Mr. Fuji, I suggest that you do just for the business, like the KFAY business side of it, because it's just a litany of wrestlers who he represented and then sold the rights to another manager and then acquired the rights from somebody. Like, there was a lot of, for all of the, all of the quote unquote, real sports, you know, story talking that WWE has been doing since the draft, there was a whole lot of this like,

like sports center crawl stuff going on into the WWF back in the day. Just a lot of transactions, you know? And Mr. Fuji was, uh, was a wheeler and a dealer. Uh-huh. He was a real dealer dealer, man. The other thing. RIP, Mr. Fuji. No.

Oh, they should bring back. I like when people have signatures. cheating methods. Like, you don't just cheat, you know, you have your signature way to cheat. The direct flare, I poke, or the, uh, the, uh, Jerry the King Loller through fire. I guess he wasn't, he got that from the sheet, the original chic, but yeah, I mean, there, I like that, the sledgehammer. It's kind of not, it's not really, it's not very, it's not a very devious way of cheating.

No, yeah, at least it's a signature. It's not nothing. Yeah, but I think that's right. We need some signatures. Abdulah the butcher gave people. hepatitis that was his signature um anyway yeah RIP Mr.

Fuji he was he was really one of the greats and and uh yeah I mean I just go back and watch everything you can on YouTube at Mr. Fuji there's so much like everything especially the Fuji Vice stuff it is so weird and so of the moment and and it's just totally worth watching well we got to get out of here we've been talking for way

too long, but I said, I told you guys before we started that I wanted to run through, run back SummerSlam. It's been a couple of weeks and see, just as an experiment, see if anything matters. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to name, I'm just going to tell you the match and the result. And you guys get to say, yay or nay, it matters or nay, it does not matter. Correct. Okay.

All right, let's skip the tag team match. Sammy Zane and Neville defeated the Dudley Boys. Does this matter? Nay. Lowest possible. It doesn't matter. Unless that's what actually chased the Dudley Boys out of wrestling, then nay is the correct answer.

Seamus defeated Cesaro. Lower than the low as possible. It doesn't matter. But they're still feuding, at least. Yeah. It was part of a storyline that, like, continues, so that give it some points for that. Yeah, a Jace. All right.

Jericho and Owens defeated Inzo and Cass? Yay. I'd say yay for that. Owens are champion now. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean,

Sam's really down on this. Yeah. Charlotte defeated Sasha. I mean, yay. Very yay, right? I mean, we haven't seen much of Charlotte,

have we? Sasha's, that Sasha interview is not. It was not it. No. That was bad. Yeah. Oh, I forgot about that.

Yeah, they're doing some, they're doing some rebooting in the, women's side with yeah it's it it'll I think will be somewhere different in a couple of weeks um but yeah I think that that matters I mean that was a big that was I mean I'm looking forward to Charlotte Bailey so yeah oh hell yeah and then Sasha will come back and challenge for the title again and that and the Summer Slam will matter anew the Miz defeated Apollo man that does not matter no not even a little and that's sad for Apollo uh AJ defeated John Sina I mean sure monumental yeah

feel like, right? That's like the only things SmackDown has is that match that they reference like 20 times. The only thing, yeah, and that's what, and yeah, and that's what's put AJ in position to be challenging for the world title. You know what? It's actually, it's actually kind of, it feels like it extra matters, like more so than WW is usually comfortable doing with a feud happens and the guy goes on hiatus. They kind of just don't really mention that guy and they kind of move on to the next feud. It's cool that even though AJ's moved on to Ambrose and Sina is on hiatus, that they're still, you know, calling back to that feud. Agree.

The club beat the New Day. Man, that feud had so much potential, didn't it? Doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter at all. Agreed? Agreed. Dean Ambrose defeated Dahl Ziegler. Man, that could not have mattered less.

This is a sad experiment that I decided to do. I kind of wasn't looking forward to this experiment. meant I won't lie. Fenn Ballard defeated Seth Rollins. I mean, the most important... It doesn't matter. It literally didn't matter. I mean, I guess.

Yeah, I mean, in the moment, it mattered. And then the next day... It doesn't matter the way we'd hoped it would matter. It negated the matter. Oh, yeah. I mean, I guess in the sense of that led to what we saw on Monday night. That matters a lot. And then Lesner, T.K.O.ing Randy Orton.

I mean, again, that matter a whole lot for about 48 hours. And then it just doesn't matter anymore. for the way that they treated Randy in that match he was so over the next smackdown and they've just done nothing with it well he's now feuding with Bray Wyatt which is a few that I was very interested to see but not one that really does any either of them any favor is the way that they've been

booking it nothing and now Brock is what wrestle Shane at Royal Rumble Oh man I mean listen I love The fact that Brock is such You know I've written this I've talked about it Brock's schedule

The fact that he's not on TV a lot Is a huge benefit in a lot of ways You know it definitely like allows things To seem like a bigger deal Because he's there or whatever But if we're talking about Does a match matter Does the outcome matter

In that for this situation I mean it's like It happened and then it was just over Paul Heyman's on Monday Night Raw, just basically filling up space to remind people that Brock Lesnar is employed. Do you think they're doing Shane Brock? Yes or no? I think that it'll happen.

Oh, man. But I am just so not interested in that. I couldn't feel as interested. Do you think they're doing it? I have no idea, but I'm with y'all. I could care less. W.W.E. did announce. It couldn't care less.

Weirdly announced that Brock and Orton have a rematch at a live event in Chicago in like a month. I think I'm in the outlier in that I just I cannot stand Brock Lesner I don't want to look at him I don't want to watch him wrestle You're over it you just hate his face I hate his entire vibe he makes my stomach turn Like I I cannot stand that guy and not in like a he's a heel and I don't like him I mean like if I if I saw that dude in the street I would turn and run in the other direction and not because I'm afraid just because I don't want to be in that orbit If Jericho doesn't trust someone that I'm out Well I didn't sure um Well, yeah, so I think that the verdict is

SummerSlam was long and wonderful and none of it really mattered that much. And Reins Rousseff. Oh, did I skip Rames Ruse? Well, there we go. That's the answer to that one. Is that even a match? It was not really a match. I don't think it ever really started, right? I don't think so.

Well. Am I just one last question before we go? Am I crazy? Or was Rains totally over in that match the other night? They were booing him and cheering him in equal measure, it felt like. Yeah. I think we're all, I think that, I think that, I think the crowd has largely come around on

reins, the, the wrestler and, but everyone's still down on reins like the, the, uh, favorite son of the booking committee. Huh. Yeah. I feel like, I didn't, I didn't hear one like, you can't wrestle chant. Am I crazy? Like, I feel like this is the best possible use of him for him to just like, just like, you know, powder out and then run in and Superman punch five people and then power bomb somebody and

then disappear again. Yeah. Right. I mean, right. Like, say what you will about the. character, like what they do with him from here. But whatever they do, he feels major. He feels like a major player.

You can take him in whatever direction you want. Yeah, and WWE is doing, I mean, since his suspension has been using him and I've said it before in the exact right way to let him be that guy to give everything the big match field that have it feel important and to swerve you by making you by never letting him win these big matches. And like I said, kudos to him for putting, for going all out in the matches, even knowing that he's not going to win. All right, we got to get out of here.

Thank you both for sitting here and talking about wrestling for the past hour. An honor and a privilege, David Chinemaker. We all got to get back to our regular jobs. Tate, thank you very much for sitting there not paying attention. And always remember Gary the Milkman Milman, Milman, Humanoids.