The Press Box - Ep. 182: 'The Masked Man Show' With Dan St. Germain and Sam Donsky

Episode Date: September 14, 2016

The Ringer's David Shoemaker is joined by comedian Dan St. Germain and Ringer staff writer Sam Donsky to discuss CM Punk's abysmal UFC showing, AJ Styles's ‘SmackDown,’ and Mick Foley's management style. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to The Maskman Show. It is a beautiful Wednesday morning here. in Los Angeles, California, and I am joined by the two biggest marks I know. Number one, to my right, back in L.A., the Voice of the Voiceless. Oh, the co-host of the co-hostless. The king of sad style himself, Dan St. Germain. How are you doing, man? It's great to be here, Dave.

You know, I'm here on my own merit. I don't have a famous girlfriend, like some co-hosts we know. Oh, my gosh. So I was glad to be back on the show. I was traveling. This is the best wrestling podcast, but let's be face it, you guys need me here. And, you know, I'm here to deliver. Shot across the bow.

That's really an unexpected way to start the show. And also Sam Donsky of the ringer.com. What's up, guys? Your microphone is way far away from your face. I met Dan today, so it's all downhill from here. Whoa. Flattery will get you everywhere. Yeah.

It was a big markout moment for Donsky. So, anyway, we have an action-packed weekend of wrestling and wrestling adjacent content the number one thing on everybody's mind despite the fact that there was a

Smackdown pay-per-view this weekend and you know a lot of NFL football was CM Punk losing at UFC 203 in borderline

comical fashion would that be a way would that be an appropriate way to put it I mean let me tell you it's going to be a great way to end the 30 for 30 we'll say that

it is going to be it is that was it was pretty tragic I like that the it was it's rare that a brutal defeat in sports cannot have crying Jordan as its dominant meme but this loss just every meme was triple H with a smile yeah and that was like it was I mean I think that like because there's been so many wrestlers being like hey he did it but I think we really need to focus on how embarrassing that was it really was really was one of the I mean like and I think I would

been okay with it and I was telling this to David if he didn't have that and I'm a huge see in punk Mark but if he didn't have that corny ass speech afterwards and he told people to believe in their dream just be like hey man I fucked up I should not have done this you know like I don't know what I was thinking credit to everybody in the UFC credit to Mickey Gall

who now I'm like a Mickey Gall fan he's basically like a bad guy from karate kid great song great song yeah so he looks exactly like Josh Brolin from the Goonies. I tweeted it that night on the ringer. He does. Yeah. So I was watching at a sports bar with, you know, sometimes

go host to my dear friend Steve Kazee. I don't want to get in your head too much there, Dan. I don't know who you're referring to. Steve was as excited as anybody I can ever, I've ever, if he, Steve was the most excited person in the world to see Steve and his anxiety was coming out of the possibility that CM Punk might make a good showing

for himself. that didn't turn out to be a problem. I guess everybody here has probably seen it, everybody listening, but if you haven't, it was, um, the match lasted just over two minutes,

but it was, Mickey Gall called the time even. It was over in 10 seconds. But yeah, that's what it was two, he called two minutes. No, he didn't say,

what they said was, he said, I was in an interview. He was like, they're like, he's like, I'll get him out in the first round. He goes,

in the first minute, he goes, and probably not the first minute, but, you know, like, I'll get him out in the first round. Yeah,

it was, It was over two minutes, but it was over in 15 seconds. I mean, they sort of charged each other, and then punk got taken down, and that was the end. It was over. It was over. It was over once he got taken down. Punk had a, punk had an all-time stat line. It was just the goose eggs, and it was, it was pretty shocking.

And listen, I don't, I know, I was making a lot of jokes on the Ringer account and, you know, at punk's expense. And, and, um, I don't have any problem with punk either. I love the dude. And I, and I, and I wish that he would, you know, I hoped that he would have a better showing. But you got to, but like, like, like you were saying about the post-match speech, you got to hope that, like, if you were ever in that position, you could take some jokes. You know, like that was, it was a silly situation. I mean, he should not have, like, yeah, he sounded like a lame after school speech. Do you think, I mean, obviously that was, was what it was.

Do you think he would do it all over again, knowing the result? I think he may now just to be like, fuck you guys, like. Let me not do it twice. I mean, go back in time and say, okay, you're going to lose embarrassingly in two minutes. You think he does it over again? I don't know. I think that he's, if he knew that, maybe not. But I don't think he's a guy, I'd be like, no, I'll just train differently.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a, I mean, listen, he's got to have, not a knock on him. He's got to have an incredible amount of self-confidence, ego, to, like, have even taken this on in the first place. So whether or not he would. It's so crazy when you think about it. It's so crazy.

Well, listen, it's not crazy to take. The word was that he got half a million dollars for showing up. Base, yeah. And presumably he'll get a little bit more in like a buy rate bonus. But these wrestling loons online who are comparing his loss to Brock Lesnar's loss at UFC, I'm like, Brock Lesnar was a serious, serious college athlete. Like, one of the best wrestlers in the world before he started. Chuck Minnenhall wrote a couple of pieces about the fight for us on The Ringer.com.

one pre-match, but he ran down every, you know, professional athlete that had made the crossover into UFC. Well, professional athlete loosely defined. The Green Power Ranger was in there, too. But, yeah, and the success rate, absent Brock Lesnar is incredibly low. Except for Brock Lesnar and a couple of guys who just got in really young, former football players or wrestlers who got in really young. I mean, the other thing is that, like, I feel like, not that I was paying that close of attention during his two years of, training, but I sort of vaguely feel like we were presented with the idea that he was slightly more experienced than he, like it's sort of information kept creeping in over

as time elapsed over the last two years that he really was doing this all for the first time. Like he had, aren't the guys who run UFC kind of criminals? Like there's a lot of allegate, like, it doesn't surprise me. Even in real life or for putting punk in the ring. Well, I know, but that's what I mean. It just seems kind of in character like. These are people who like ban journalists like they're Putin, you know? I mean, that did happen.

This isn't, uh, this is, of course they're going to lie and they're going to work people. Well, no, I think they were actually more up front. I mean, I think it was only at the very beginning when there was a lot, just there was a cloud of misinformation. And punk had been training jiu-jitsu in his spare time for some, for a year or two or for more. I have no idea. I mean, but there's a, you know, you can go, you can, you can, you can roll into a Gracie gym and like pay them to, you know, it's a workout. It's not necessarily training for the UFC. He would have done a lot.

He would have done a lot of favors to himself. He had just kind of more, he had owned that more afterwards. He started to at the very end. At the press conference. You could tell he was pivoting into like underdog, underdog, underdog. My biggest problem with the post-match speech was not its cloyingness. But the fact that he omitted his actual life story, like, he did follow his dream. and succeed and accomplish everything he could have dreamed of.

He was the WWE champion. Like, he did it all. But what happened now was the pivot at the age of 36 to a different dream that involves your physical. Well, wait until he signs with the Blackhawks next week. Yeah, exactly. This is, yeah, I joked on Sunday that the, or on Saturday, that Michael Jordan's baseball career is the biggest winner of this situation because he looks like, I mean,

he just looks like Babe Ruth compared to seeing Pung and the Octagon. So what are you doing with your leftover jokes? saving him for the second punk fight? Yeah, exactly. I had a bunch of punk jokes. I mean, why didn't they just do a, he should have done a strike force like Herschel Walker dead or... He got paid a lot of money.

He got paid a lot of money. What do you, I mean, I don't know what the points are, but I imagine he'll do pre, I mean, I imagine the buys or... Here's my wonder, that doesn't make sense. But here's what I was wondering, too, like, he had to put a camp together for two years. It's not cheap. That's not, like, he can't, I don't think he... He also, he also, according to the documentaries on, or the UFC documentaries, yeah, he

installed, like, all of the workout equipment in his, his Chicago home. I bet you he broke even. I really bet you he broke even. Like, because a two-year camp with the best trainers? Well, he wasn't, yeah. I don't know.

I mean, it was, I don't know how much you pay just to show, to be like a high-level student at a gym. It's not like they're the full, he's his only attention, but. Yeah, I don't think it's a lot that he profited at all, but I think that's why he had the UFC.

I mean, he's got a lot of money. If he broke even, that's okay. On a scale. And he got to follow his dreams. On a scale of one to 10. The second dreams. How much did you mark out?

for cult of personality. It was really great. That was definitely the highlight of the night. I just watched the clips because I was at a wedding. Turns out I still have a personal life. It was after all these years. You say that with such ego. There's been, no, I mean, no.

I mean, there's been debate whether or not I've had a personal life for five years. It was more proving the dad is wrong. This is, you guys, everybody listening to this tweet in and if you want to hear more about Dan's personal life. If not, you can just listen to his other four podcasts, which are only about his personal life. The, yeah, we, back on Cheapy, we used to talk about our personal lives, and people

seem to like it. Yeah, when I was, I was, I was an almost alien way of describing that. Some people enjoy our other activities. Yeah, that is, that's how my brain works, unfortunately. Yeah, when he was, when he was, when the, when the match before Punks ended, everybody online was wondering whether or not he would come out to cult of personality. It was like fantasy booking, and then the fantasy booking came true. Everybody just went nuts when the music.

hit and then the match was over all my I had literally had like 12 jokes that I just didn't get to tweet because the match was I was so wrapped up in the my anxiety but also just like the the near doom I mean the impending doom of the entire fight that I tweeted very little during it well I feel like part of the reason that cult of personality I mean it's just iconic for a lot of reasons but part of the reason it was so cool was that during the run-up to the fight punk had been so kind of withholding you You know, like he wasn't, you kind of imagine in sort of fantasy booking the run-up to this fight, that he'd be cutting promos. And, I mean, he's kind of like very, like, you know, withholding throughout the process. Well, the one thing is he didn't shake the guy's hand, right? He ran, he had to jog past and didn't shake his hand. He also in his public workout, which is sort of, you know, a common UFC thing from the boxing world where you, like, do a little workout for cameras. He was wearing the old Roddy Piper t-shirt, just like the one with just the panther head on it.

That was the first indication that he hadn't totally turned his back on the wrestling world. But it was just a nice little like getting any sort of nod to that kind of wanting to be a showman. What I would love someone to do, and this is a public call out to everybody listening to this, take that UFC. It's going to get taken down a million times, so don't even put it up. Just email it to me. Take that UFC fight and overlay Jesse the Body Ventura or Bobby the Brain Heenan making excuses for CM Punk the entire time. and I will send you

what do you want? I'll send you a ringer t-shirt that I'll sign that doesn't that's meaningless but I will do that the uh it's um it's a it was just a crazy night but of course the one thing coming out of it

we've spent enough time talking about the fight the thing coming out of it immediately everybody was asking was okay see and punk's done in the UFC we know now that he's maybe maybe not done the UFC but uh I think he's done right Dana White was like I don't think his next fight he might not be he might fight again, but he's done.

He's done. Yeah, I think there's more of a Friday night, you know, UFC live sort of future if he's going to keep fighting for the company. Although I'll tell you, as a very, very regular viewer of the UFC product, there are times where it feels like they're spread really thin. And there are some guys that fight on their like Friday night live shows that seem to have about as much business being in a, you know, octagon a CM Punk. But don't you agree that,

like the UFC is now bigger. Like this should be, that should have been a strike force fight. Like the UFC has now gotten to the, with people like Connor and Nate Diaz and Ronda, that they've gotten to the point where this is beneath them. They still are in the business of star making. And it's very,

and when someone like CM Punk becomes like hand delivered to you, it's hard for them to turn it down if he's going to act like he's taking it seriously. Well, especially because now Mickey Gall is a name. That's the star is, right. They made Mickey Gall now for. I think that with, I mean, to me, the biggest, the most interesting thing about the McGregor Diaz fight was that it was sort of like it was out of the weight class it was out of I mean it was it was it was not for a title and it was the biggest

fight they've ever had especially if you look at it in terms of fans being interested in both people in the match and like you know like just the attention that it got um and it almost seems like UFC I don't think they need to leave the weight classes behind but it's like pro wrestling where like the one big grudge match is more important can be more important than the title matches yeah the heavy weight invested more in just you know I'm paper the heavy meet each other, like, fighting in a way that they can agree on, that that would be good for UFC. And I almost feel like punk fits into that. Like, we don't need to get into, like, celebrity boxing quite.

But if there were, if it, like, punk versus, like, punk versus, punk versus, punk versus the green power ranger is now a fight that I'm more interested in because punk might win, you know, like there's, if there was a sort of celebrity division, or, you know, Joe Rogan is so mad that CM Punk is in the UFC, maybe Joe Rogan goes and beats up CM Punk. Who do you think wins? Joe Rogan or CM Punk? I think Joe Rogan win. I mean, I don't know the weight situation, but...

I hear Rogan's a beast. I hear that from a lot of... He's a legit beast. Like, I heard that from a lot of people who actually know this sport. Let's reflect on the fact that we're debating in earnest, the guy who fought last weekend versus the announcer. Well, Joe Rogan's a bit...

Okay, maybe Joe Rogan gets like Eddie Bravo to fight in his place, like an old school wrestling manager. Yeah, he's been training for longer than punk, though. I've got Rogan. Yeah, I've got Rogan. He has a sensory deprivation tank in his fucking house. Only Super Bowl and that shit. He put in the hot water.

The hot and cold baths in his basement. But, okay, so punk is gone. Punk may or may not be gone from UFC, but the first question on everybody's minds when the fight was over was, does this mean punk's headed back to pro wrestling? Now, WWE is obviously what people think of when they say pro wrestling,

but I think there's a real path to him, you know, fighting, taking a couple of fights in Japan and making $3 million more dollars. I mean, there's, seeing punk, I mean... Yeah, but how do you, like, here's a, I think, on top of that question,

I was thinking of my car alone in a 7-Eleven parking lot was like how do you mark like now he can't be the like when he comes back if he comes back to WV let's say you know it starts raiding cats and dogs he comes back to WVE you can't market him

as the I'm the avenging guy anymore because he just failed on a bigger stage so he has to almost come back as an underdog like he has to come back with people laughing at his face right because of this like even in Japan they've got to be like you're here because you failed somewhere else. It's the clearest I failed somewhere else transition.

It's not like Jordan. No, no. I think you're right. But it's also, I mean, wrestling fans are utterly, I mean, they might say that in the lead-up. But as soon as that music hits, as soon as he comes back, I think all is forgiven and we're just excited. Yeah, you think so. But I think that like wrestling fans, there's something in our head that still thinks that Undertaker can beat up everybody. And once you realize that Oz isn't a big face, but an old broken man, it kind of takes the mystique away from the performer.

Are you talking about Oz from the Wizard of Oz? Or the Kevin Nash gimmick? No, Kevin Nash, the Kevin Nash Oz gimmick. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, also a broken old man. If Triple H is cutting a smug promo on raw and cult of personality hits, I'm not going to be thinking about the McGee-Golfite. If, yes, if Triple H goes to the ring at the next pay-per-view or whenever he decides to make his appearance,

standing there with Kevin Owens, and he says, I'm the one that brought indie wrestling to WWE, this is my champion, and cult of personality hits, that is the greatest moment ever. Okay, so, I mean, I guess it's a minor question. If he never comes back to WWE, CMPunk, how excited are you for like a new Japan fight

that you can catch on pay-per-view over here? That would be excited. excited but it's a big step down for me and excitement i just yeah the yeah what okay so let's and that's no i think it's funny because he he had mentioned this on uh on on on that Jesus Christ I apologize I don't know what the fuck just happened there um what I'm sorry it's um it's my valet uh I that's the that's the noise that your phone makes yeah no it was no harm what's not what's not go into this uh but uh what the hell was I saying Oh, God.

We were talking about Japan. Punk and Japan. I mean, it's exciting, but it's, I mean, what I want to see is punk back in WWW with all the burned bridges and being unburned. So, okay, let's take this one step back further before we get off the subject altogether and talk about burning bridges more broadly. There's a, you know, coming and going from WWE is just part of the life cycle of the pro wrestling world. By the way, Ryback's second match confirmed against the heavenly bodies, guys. Yeah. Yeah.

I know Ryback's tour schedule. Really? Yeah. Is he actually wrestling the heavenly? He and another guy are wrestling the heavenly bodies. What is his first match? Some guy I've never heard of. So Ryback, who news came out this week is legally changing his name to Ryback.

There was a lot of Ultimate Warrior comparisons with Ryback when he was, you know, at the beginning of his run. And now he's just fulfilling his destiny. He's just got to make like some YouTube videos about hating the Jews or something. He's going to change his name to Ryback. I have an Ultimate Warrior comic book. Yeah. That was a little, I mean, I'm a big comic book guy and that was one. one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life.

So, Ryback is, Ryback is gone, I guess, working the Indies. And, and, uh, I mean, honestly, I loved Ryback. I don't, I can't say that I miss him that much. He's, he was a little bit of a showstopper in the bad way when he would, when he was on TV, but he could be very entertaining. But we also have all this ongoing news of Del Rio, who is now officially leaving the WWE and holding press conferences in like a, in like a Tijuana Hooters.

I don't really know what's going on. And his reputed girlfriend, Paige, who hired some lawyers to deal with her suspension or potentially getting out of her contract. Now there's word that she's worked, that she's back on the schedule as of the 17th or whenever her suspension's up. But, you know, who knows if that means she's back on, you know, really in the spotlight or if she's just going to lie down for Nia Jacks and, you know, shuffle out the door to be with Alberto. For a line down with the Rio.

Am I right? Oh, man. Yikes. Yeah, get your, and prepare your, like, rib tattoo jokes, too. Because there's a lot of the stories. But anyway, there's, you know, there's also Cody Rhodes, who I talked about last week, seeing him at Bola. He did a great match. He's so good.

And, uh, who, what else has happened? I mean, I guess on the flip side, we have Kurt Engel never ending, never stopping to talk about potential WWU return. I feel like he's in the same shoot interview room and they just cycle in new, new interviewers each time. Every day on Russell Zone, there's a new fucking Kurt Angle shoot interview. Totally true. Does he just live there? Like, what's going on? It's just one of those media tours that Tom Hanks does before every movie,

where they just cycle in different shoot interview cameras or whatever. Angles actually in Sully, if you haven't seen it. He makes a really good case. Like, you listen to enough of those interviews, and he starts making, like, a really good case for, like, you listen to like 20 minutes of crankling. And you're like, yeah, so what? He dies in the ring, it's fine.

Just like one match. And you just kind of like, all. in on like, it doesn't matter. Oh, yeah, he's on 120 percocets a day. Yeah, that's a normal thing to do. I'm not sure if it's more or less dangerous than seeing punk getting in the octagon at this point. Like, looking at the way that that match went. I mean, he's kind of, he's lucky that he passed.

It is crazy, you know, like, to think about it, like, with how bad he got beaten, he can take a hit. Yeah. That's one thing about him. He can, maybe if there's a way for him just to get punched in the face every paper view. Yeah. Take some shredding elbows from Brock. Oh, my goodness. So, like,

WWE fans, can we all agree that there's no grudges held if punk ever came back? Zero, the opposite of a grudge. Dan? I can't comment at this juncture. I'm like Paul Ryan was wrong.

Here's the thing, Del Rio left, and he left under very odd circumstances. When he came back to, you know, as a support, people went nuts. And part of it was,

I think, not just, I mean, it was the, that we mark out for every surprise return, and that was actually a surprise. but we also

it was the fact that he left under circumstances that made it seem like he would never be back right I mean that was what that was why it was so shocking so does it help like are we going to mark out more for Del Rio's next return than for Cody Rhodes's return because Cody seems to be

on good terms with the company except the fact the company's actually trying to trademark the last name Rhodes and won't let him wrestle with it that's some real like that's some WWE if you're listening that's some real scumbag shit you can't bronze a statue of the guy's dad

and then take his fucking name away. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I feel like Cody's done pretty well for himself that he has like, I mean, it could have gone the other way. You know, these things easily when you leave, you really can be out of sight, out of mind.

But he, I think, this is pretty much Cody's best case scenario is what's been happening right now that if he came back, right now, I think. I mean, it's only been a few months. If that, I think if Cody comes back right now, he's elevated already in these few months. I would say, yeah, wait a couple years.

I wouldn't come back right now. The guy's a winner, man. The guy's, every angle at didn't WWE was great. He's got a smoking hot wife who seems like kind of like a fun person. She was there at both nights of Bola that I was at, as his personal ring announcer and got one of the biggest pops each night.

There's no guarantee though when you start doing like Bola and the Indies and et cetera that you're going to, you know, phase out of wrestling at WW style match that you're going to put on four-star match. I mean, there's no guarantee at all. Yeah.

Right? So he, I mean... Yeah, it would be a weird move to come back just from like a personal freedom standpoint. But I guess that's what everybody comes back and they're hoping for a brought contract and you just might get it. Who knows? So I guess if it's like, I mean, on some level, maybe WWE is trying to, is putting out this trying to trademark the road's name thing. They could be working us for all we know, you know, make it look like there's a little bit more distance between parties. Half of this page stuff could be a work for all we know.

I mean, she's going to come back. It's quoted in TNA. Huh? Has Cody done TNA? No. I heard he's going. If he did his TNA, then it's not a way. That's why they're doing, that's why W.O.B.

is doing all this. But he's got like that sweet Matt Hardy deal. Matt Hardy's got a cool deal where he can kind of do Ring of Honor and TNA. Yeah. So that's where the road stuff is certainly coming from because they, you know, just they still want to screw over TNA more than anybody else. But listen, I mean, if if my, you know, vague theory is correct and that like the worst terms that you lead on the more fans are going to be happy for you to come back,

then, like, even if Paige isn't leaving, then this, they're working us in the exact right way, right? Like, that we think that she's on terrible terms. If she comes back and actually gets pushed, that'll help her. Cody will all,

will feel so bad for him for the lawsuit, we'll pop for him. Who knows about Del Rio? He's done it a couple of times, but CM Punk has got to be the top of the raw. I mean, he'll be the biggest star in the world if he comes back, even if he lost.

Blurring all possible lines, this is Paige's best angle in years, right? Like, Yeah. This is the best storyline she's been involved in. No, no, Charlotte was pretty good. It just, there wasn't enough.

It didn't get enough room to breathe. All right. Let's move on to the other big event of the weekend. Again, pretending NFL football didn't happen. This is a rough, it was a rough Sunday to try to pay a whole lot of attention to pro wrestling. Coming off of the weird CM Punk event the night before and then a full day of the first full day of NFL football, we all got to take a little break in the evening

and watch Backlash, which was, let me give my capsule review. There was a lot of good stuff on Backlash. I think I texted Steve right afterwards. There was a lot of matches on there that I enjoyed. There was a lot of content that I enjoyed. There was not a moment during the show

where I was like, thank God I'm watching this live right now. And I think that's, you know, the difficulty that the WWE is going to have in their two pay-per-views a month schedule, especially as it pertains to SmackDown, they did the biggest thing that a month and a half ago,

putting the world title on AJ Styles, spoiler alert, I guess, was like the biggest thing they could have possibly done. And now in post-brand split, where the world title has been diminished and where Smackdown is sort of already being conveyed as a B-show, it felt

felt like a lot less than that. Well, I don't know. Talk about the main event and the main. It was an incredibly good match, but talk about it for you guys. What was your takeaway from that big ending? My takeaway was that Dean, who I love, did not, even though he was up to the task and, you know, put on his end of a good match, even though, you know, A.J. carried him a little, I think. he just did not seem to be at the level of champion enough to make AJ winning seem like a big deal, which is disappointing to me.

Because I thought he's had sort of he's been up and down on Smackdown Live, but he, I thought that this was, he's had a, since SummerSlam, he's had a bad few weeks. And I just thought that Dean seemed a little too weak of a champion to kind of, kind of, kind of run into that. What was your takeaway, Dan? Well, I just thought of something.

I said this to you. We watched the pay-for-you together Sunday night at the Chateau-Mormant. Whatever. The Chateau, my buddy, Blake. Great guy, by the way. Shout out to Blake. I think that, like, Dean Ambrose

would have been a terrific attitude-era wrestler. Like, the best match that he's had this year was against Triple H on that, like, MSG live show. Great match. Because they both wrestle that, like, brawling, big storytelling. telling. But AJ's, like, he's still like, I mean, he's, he's kind of an innovator in the ring. And I don't, you know, and Sina has this amazing ability where Sina's able to kind of mesh with whatever style. And Dean doesn't have that. So I think that that's a, that's kind of,

that's what was, uh, rubbing against me wrong. But that, you know, I, you know, a lot of it, I think I've learned from even listening to you a lot is, is where is it going? And the next night, the opening segment of Smackdown completely paid everything off. So I can't get. I mean, If anybody hasn't watched Smackdown yet, we're going to spoil the hell out of it right now, because it's impossible to really judge Sunday in storyline terms without talking about Smackdown. I will say, I will say going into it, I said numerous times that they really needed to do something big at backlash because they risked Smackdown pay-per-views becoming skippable. And I'm not sure that they got to that bar, although putting the belt on AJ on paper,

seems like a huge deal. And Heath Slater and Rhino, that was a big deal. And Becky Lynch, they're all pretty big fan-fitting ones. I think my concern was you had to be already the sort of fan who's never going to miss a Smackdown pay-per-view to have bought into the new women's title, the new women's and tag titles being meaningful. I love both those matches. And the Heath Slater, the Heath Slater storyline is maybe the most successful storyline that

WW has had in the past year. I mean, and this is including things that we went crazy for. I got kids. Yeah, I mean, it's so, it was just, I mean, part, let me just, let me just qualify that. It was successful because it was like a capsule storyline, right? Like it was able to happen in a very kind of minor fashion and then build up to this sort of semi-minor, semi-major minor, you know, middle ground moment that we were all very, that was, that felt very rewarding, but it didn't have, it didn't carry with the weight of a title match.

If they had shotgun them into the main event, it would have failed, you know. But it was a very, very good story on it. own terms. I just think that like, I mean, when Randy Orton was, was, when it was announced that Randy Orton would probably miss the show with concussions left over from Brock Lesnar elbowing his head, presumably. Shocker. Yeah. The, I mean, I just looked at the card and I was just like, what, there's no more matches, you know? Here's what would have been, would have been such an easy fix for them. Same thing that happened were Orton distraction, Bray White lost, but you do it with Shelton Benjamin. Perfect. Well, Shelton's heard, but yeah. Oh, he is? Yeah. I don't think he's going to make.

But do it with anybody. You could do it with Samoa Joe. You do it with, I mean, there are like so many ways to pop the crowd. So I don't know, like, obviously I've, I've, confession I've never given anyone an RKO before. But with concussion protocol, I don't really understand how, so he couldn't work. But, I mean, that's not a risk-free endeavor. No. Performing an RKO-O, right?

Performing an RKO seems to be as problematic as just about anything else than that. and beat him up the next night. Yeah. So maybe the news is out. I mean, maybe the news is off. Maybe he's not that hurt. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's another, you know,

maybe it's a more minor injury and I just, and we just haven't seen the news. But yeah, it was definitely a, it was definitely a weird turn of events in that match. Now, listen, I don't want to sound like I'm dogging the whole show because, because in retrospect, the title match was really good.

And it was really good. Mini rant right here. AJ Silas has had incredible matches with everybody he's gotten in the ring with, but don't, we should not be using this as an excuse to let, or as a means of like, you know, belittling what his opponents are doing. There are a lot of, there are a lot of wrestlers, Randy Orton included, whose entire, you know, career is, or is based on being in the ring with the right person, right? I mean, yeah, I mean, when you, when you look at the history of wrestlers

who have had four or five star matches, it is almost entirely about matchups. The fact that AJ Stiles is the greatest, you know, dance partner anybody could have does not diminish what his, the guys in there are doing with him. No, I mean, that's the Somaslam match is one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. Yeah, and it's a tribute to Sina,

even if Sina's not doing that as frequently as AJ is. For sure, but this was for me a step, two steps down from the Sina match and also a step down from the Rain series, for me. I like to...

I mean, you're right. I mean, you could make a case. I really, really enjoyed this match on the second watch, and I would put it up there, but I would have to go back and watch those to really make a bold argument. It was really good.

And then, The IC match was incredibly good. And we sort of talked about this, or I did leading up to it, that these two guys wanted to, you know, certainly their buddies, and they, you know, when friends get in the ring,

they want to make each other look good. And when they're talented, like these two guys, I mean, it really was incredible. This was not a five-star work-rate match, but there were definitely parts of it where I looked over at you, Dan, and I was just like,

did they, were they watching PWG tapes? Like, like there was, it seemed like they were out there with, not just with a, purpose of making each other look good, but of sort of like taking both of their careers to another level.

Well, again, that's another one where it paid off. Like, and this is where I think give a lot of credit to the Smackdown creative team, where on SmackDown, if you looked at the segments, that match, then leads up to the promo on Smackdown, then leads up to them taking out, miss taking out everybody's favorite job. It was like a nice little art. A thousand percent. And like, if you take a step back and, again, sorry, switching kind of jumping for

a second, but to Smackdown last night, and it just struck me watching Ms. is in the main event with Sina and Ambrose and Stiles, and it didn't seem like a stretch to me. And that's all of them, because if that happened a month ago, I'm like, what's Ms. doing here? I mean, I love Ms. That was my number one note coming out of Smackdown, was when he came out, love James Ellsworth. I hope that's his name, right? The jober. who's close enough. Yeah, he really does look like he's working at a gas station. Oh, my God.

James, if you're listening to this, you have an open invitation to come take Dan St. Germain's role as my co-host on the show. But like when Ms. came out, it felt 100% right. It was just, it was absolutely perfect. And he and AJ had that little, had the, a very old school, you know, heel chemistry of like, we're going to work together for the, for the, for the, for the, for evil to succeed in this match. but, like, they're not necessarily buddies. And then, you know, to take it all the way to the full spoiler,

the show closing with Ambrose attacking Sina, I mean, going off what you were saying about Ambrose is sort of like, if he run over the past couple of weeks, this is the best possible thing that he could have done, you know? Best possible. Sina and Ambrose, I always thought, have like a really good chemistry together. Would have one.

Yeah, for sure. That's a good, yeah. Both of them are attitude era, Ajase, to go back to that old terminology. But yeah, I mean, it's, they, they definitely have a good chemistry on the mic, and, you know, when we've seen them in the ring, they do okay. I mean, it's got to, they both have some sort of cartoony tendencies, but I'm excited about that, about them being at odds.

I think that that's a step in the right direction for a Amber. We had a Cina triple threat match with AJ Stiles. I mean, how great was that scene a Rollins-Lessner one from Royal Rumble, you know, a year and a half ago. Absolutely. I feel like for WWE style, triple threat is like the peak. Yeah.

It just works for WWE style. Like triple threat matches are better. We keep it every time they have. I mean, they've had so many over the past six months or so, and every time they're great. I saw when I went to the house show out here right after I moved to L.A., it was Reigns, Rollins, and AJ, I think that's right? And in triple threat.

That was it? It was exceptional. I mean, it was just really one of my, it was just like one of the best matches I'd seen live and forever, because, you know, I mean, house shows have just have a different vibe, but I loved it. And you're able to do a sort of, you're able to, this makes, it's almost counterintuitive. You're able to tell an in-ring story in a way with a triple threat match that you aren't in a one-on-one match because we're so programmed now to hate on baby faces that the only way to really get yourself,

for the Pavlovian, like, I'm cheering for the underdog baby face thing to kick in is when they're being double-teamed. And so you're, and so like Roman Raines, enter that match. to a chorus of booze from like the marquiest crowd ever, which is you know, not a good look. But then by the end, we were all cheering for him because he had two, you know, irritating heels that were going at him.

It is kind of crazy, like, that Raines is able to, by every time he does it, like, it builds up to a big spot this match people cheer. You know, like, and I don't know how he does that because people then immediately hate him after the bin and before it.

I still think he's a terrible face. Well, yeah, Reigns is born for a triple threat. Yeah, he's, yeah, that's a, that's the, the most salient point we could take out of this whole conversation. Roman Rain's born for the triple threat. The more people in the ring with Roman Raines, the better he looks. But that's, he's a very, he's a very potent professional wrestler. Like, he's got, he's got a lot of good things going for him. He just is, you know, like we just demand a sort of work rate, or we, meaning like, the level of wrestling nerd that is sitting in this room with me right now.

I mean, I don't concern myself one, but yeah, sure. Yeah, you, you, yeah, if you're booing. Roman Reins. You're on that list. If I know Ryback's second independent match. I need to ask how many people, if you guys know, listen to that Stone Cold podcast because everyone seemed to know what Sina was talking about when he made that reference. If you're going to a Smackdown Live taping, you listen to the Stone Cold podcast. I guess.

Yeah. I think that, I don't know if you're, I don't know if I'm totally on board with that. But yeah, it's totally, I mean, it's a stone cold Steve Austin. The Stone Cold Podcast is very, a lot of people listen to that. I was impressed. It's not quite at the Mass Man Show numbers, but, you know, of course. You know, I feel like Stone Cold's like a, you know, Brett Hart shits on everybody, but Stone Cold doesn't.

Like, he's pretty measured in who he shits on. So I think like when he goes after somebody, people actually listen, opposing to Brett Hart where it's like, oh, grandma's cranky again, you know. I mean, I guess it was on the network, but it struck me as like the reaction was like, as though it was canon. Like he... Yeah. Right?

Like, as though it was a promo that happened or something. Yeah. No, no, I think the Stone Cold... I think in 2016, the network, Steve... The network Stone Cold podcasts are canon. Just like talking smack now is like canon.

I mean, it's basically along the same lines. I'm guessing the Stone Cold podcast get better... Get better... That's all... Credit to Renee Young, right, for talking smack? That's Daniel Bryan, I think. I mean, Renee certainly. Like, Renee is the greatest, you know, non-easterners.

wrestling on-screen talent. Yeah. Well, not out of the ring's talent the W.W.B. has had since, like, Gene O'Kerlund, or, you know, whatever. It's, or, like, Bobby Heenan in the announce booth. Like, it's crazy. I feel like Renee is going to get poached.

I've definitely heard things in that direction from people who would know. So anyway, her significant other is, you know, now former WWV champion. We'll see how that goes. Popashango. Oh. Yes. Listen, so I think the takeaway from backlash,

was it was really good. When you take into account Smackdown, I'm not sure that it was not must watch. When there was football on another channel, it's hard to make the case that that pay-per-view was must-watch. And I think that's something that WW is going to be dealing with in a general way going forward with two pay-per-views a month and competing against football for the foreseeable future.

And I just don't think that... I think that the right move maybe is to accept that fact, you know? I mean, I don't want to They're not beating football Huh? They're not beating football No, I mean And if they're gonna

And maybe you put it on You know You do like they did During a Monday Night Wars Where you put on Or they've done recently During NFL games Where you put on your big moments

During halftime Or when you know that nobody is watching You know you flip over And everybody can flip over When they hear something big's about to happen Let's just do it Let's bring back halftime heat Here's what I think

Halftime heat is the best example I mean they should just say They should just have like Halftime Halftime Schmaws or something where you know that someone's going to run in and do something shocking during every Monday night football halftime. If they had no show, obviously they wouldn't do this,

no show for whatever it's called, I think no mercy. And just at half time of that week's Sunday night football game, it was Sina, Stiles, and Ambrose. Yeah. That would be electric. For whatever reason, it would feel like. And just spend the rest of the time on the studio shows. I mean, they spend way too much time for five hours a week of plus,

plus three more for a pay-per-view. every other week now is is what is what is that seven hour no eight hours I don't even know it's too much yeah hours of must watch eight out eight plus hours of must watch TV they should just be spending more time in the studio you know just like move us around a little bit well maybe what they should do when when the 49ers cut capernick they should sign capernick that Monday night have him come over get some maybe viewers that way who have him like join rusev and they need it we need to update we need to update the real athlete WWE talent rankings we need a Pac-man Jones that worked out great for tNA I mean, listen, Mickey Gall might be the biggest here.

Maybe the number one wrestler in WWE, too. Oh, my God. I didn't even think of that. Yeah. Before we start talking about Raw, I got to tell you about my favorite sponsor. I got to be biased here. W.W.E. 2K17. All right, guys.

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We got to wrap up. So let's touch on Raw really quickly. We can segue to Raw this way. We've had our first free agent or wrestler jump ship from one show and go to another show this week. Electric Pop. Yeah, I was just as that happened, I was like, Wra-WR-WR-WR. Jack Swagger's new ring entrance, ring music should just be the sad trombone.

The sound of Cezara's. The sound of Cizaro's hand hitting his forehead. Jack Swagger lost to Jinder Mahal on Raw, then showed up on SmackDown. of a hall. What the hell was that? Yeah. It was part of this story. It was a funny, like, McMahon, I really think it was like him being like, what if a Muslim came in peace? He's not a

Muslim, right? That's what they built it. He was dressed all in black as like the ISIS sort of garb, right? And then they had the whole, like, I come in peace thing. I really think McMahon was just like he doesn't care if he's Indian or not. You know, he's just brown to Vince. Again, no comment

on that. You're probably right. So, yeah, I mean, is there anything from I mean, Raw has been really great in the main event, you know, in the main event scene. Kevin Owens' whole, I mean, lengthy, just joking, run as champ has been really sort of reaffirming in a lot of ways. But, and there were any number of wonderful pictures and videos being passed around Twitter on Sunday night after AJ won the belt because, like, AJ and Kevin Owens have, like, fought at so many indie promotions. I mean, they're both, it is a real, it is evidence of a whole new generation. And it's also, I mean, I think a good reflection on how well a champ is doing. I mean, it's just been a week or two is sort of a, does the kind of rising tide lift all boat situation?

And Owens as champ has, it's elevated Jericho and it's elevated Sammy. And I think that it's put Rollins in a good position and it's had Roman be. in an interesting spot for a couple weeks until you guys back to me. Keo might be the only guy and I mean honestly, Keo might be the only guy who can have a one. We were talking about Roman being made for the three-way. A Keo Roman one-on-one match is a match that every wrestling fan would stop to watch because of the level of Owen's magnetism.

Agreed? Agreed? You don't like Ron's keeping the laugh, Sam. This is your hot take of the week. This is my pet peeve is I think they are overthinking it. by a lot. I think that they probably are under the impression that they're... W.E is overthinking the face

slash not face turn of Seth Rowe. I think that they are hesitant. He's been a heel for so long and the sort of cackle works for him and that kind of persona works for him. I think that they're hesitant to so severely, you know,

take a left turn into Rollins as the, you know, white meat, baby face and I think they're wrong. I agree. I was like, when he like dropped, like, during the Foley-Rollins interaction, he was like...

He's so good. When he first came back, I was like, this is the worst possible use of McFoly, damn you WWE. The fact that he's just been able to be serious. He hasn't tried to be funny, which I think is great. You forget how good, you know,

that Kane-Douy promo, like his promos, When he's serious, there's nobody that can beat him. I mean, him and C.M Punk have the best I'm serious promos. Out of anybody. Foley makes things so important. Well, it's almost right. When he's, like, Rollins was, it's weird because Rollins was doing the kind of in-between cackily, like, what is this?

And then fully snapped on him when he, I get questioned his integrity, I think, or something like that. And Foley just sort of went in and gave this really serious. Like, Dad's angry thing. which is like really scary. And it works because of the beard and because of his size. Like normally I'm, normally I'm anti-authority figures

that are bigger than the wrestlers because it's just, I mean, it just sort of hits my, the weird dinosaur parts of my brain in a weird way. But yeah, I mean, he's been really, really good.

But yeah, because I think it's because you know Seth Rollin's kick his ass, so it's like, it's like gorilla monsoon getting pissed off at Stone Cold. He may be bigger, Surgeon's Waterman,

but it's still not going to mean anything. Sure. I think that's right. I mean, so full credit to Foley. She was amazing. And also with the, I mean, when he came down to the ring in the main event and told Seth that they had to go have a talk in the back, again, great dad vibe there. But also, I wasn't sure, like, he was doing it in a sort of nuanced way. Very much so.

It seemed like he was mad at Seth. I like the way that Seth sort of, like, did what he said, but laughed it off. I mean, it was a good, I mean, throughout the night, that's sort of been Seth's interaction with him. And it works really well, cackling aside. But also, like, I wasn't entirely convinced that Foley wasn't team Rollins. Like, wasn't, like, that wasn't the plan. Like, there was a little bit of, there's just enough nuance there where he said, like, I asked you to do one thing and now we got to talk.

He didn't say you broke, you didn't say, correct me if I'm wrong. He didn't say you did what I, you did what I told you not to do. 100%. That, I think that's what they were going for. And I think that's why they purposely did not have a fully. Rollins interaction after that

Yeah right Well we also had to end With the With We'll We'll close out on this But we had to end

With the reboot Of the Of the Reigns Rusef feud Yeah Which I think that again This is a good feud For these two

And I don't mind watching this It's elevating Rusef for sure I think that my I think that my My only My only My only feeling of letdown at the end of the match was one that as we as we discussed earlier roman rains is

made for the three way that sounds wrong he really is though if he would if roman rangers was an indy wrestler he'd be sitting on the side of the ring at half did like the intermission selling just like i'm a three way guy t-shirts and everybody would buy them that guy's definitely had a couple three ways yeah oh 100 percent and uh but like it looks like a browser's porn star i've always said that yeah Sam is just, Sam's like checking out of the show. Sam is like the guy who's like, who's just feeling so uncomfortable at one of Dan's like stand-up routines that Dan just has to go after him at some point.

No, no, I'm, I'm a Mark. So anyway, it was that, it was that we love Roman in these in triple threat matches. And also that we've gotten to the point now or whenever someone has said like it seems like anytime they have a stipulation that someone might get, that a main event match might become a triple threat, it always becomes a triple threat. And so that was a little bit of a letdown on that front, just in the fact that, like, I think that that would have been, I think that was the match that we were all, the ending we were all expecting to happen, and Rusef running in wasn't necessarily a step, a better ending. Well, I thought it was, it was one of the few times where they really got the little things right in the long-term logic of an angle, right?

They, like, after that raw match when Triple H screwed over Seth and won it for Owens, the logical match is Owens Rawlins, right? And yet, you know, Raines also got screwed. And so they didn't just forget about Raines and have Rusev attack Raines the next night. And then you go right into Rousse of Rains and Rains just miraculously isn't annoyed that he got screwed. You have, you closed off that loop where you gave Raines. his match and then you had Rusev ruined that match and I think that it's like the little things make a big difference and I thought

that was really good. Yeah I think that's totally right. Let's get out of here then. We've talked enough about wrestling and enough about CM Punk. Can we do plugs? Can I do a couple plugs? Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to be in October. I'm going to be in Appleton, Wisconsin at the Skyline Comedy Club.

Now I've become like actually serious because I'm trying to get money. This is great. This is great. Castle at Royal Oak Michigan. The weekend And after that, I also host the Not Safe and My Dumb Friends podcast and check me out on Twitter, D.S. Germain, Instagram. I got a website, DanceAjurban.com.

A lot of videos up there. Things are happening. I don't know. I didn't understand any of those words. I think I'm on, this is not happening this season. So I'll shoot that out. You should start doing your plugs for future shows in like Rick Rood style. Like, ladies of Madison, Wisconsin. Ladies of Madison, Wisconsin. Oh, man. That would really give me.

But then you have to start giving us, you have to start calling all the men of Madison and like, you know, out of shape, slabs. I'm trying to think of, like, what would be the most heel thing? I'd have to get somebody's wife's picture on my crotch. Yeah, I think you could do that. Yeah, I could definitely do it. I feel like airbrushing technology has come a long way.

Sam, do you got any plugs? Oh, God, the ringer.com, T-H-E-R-I-N-G-E-R dot, C-O-M. Good, good job. You gave up on the plug, like that way through. Like, I forget it. What's your Twitter handles? Everybody can find you. dance remix

D-A-N-C-E I'm going to go to follow you right now Speaking of airbrushing by the way Before we get out of here You can follow me at David Tewmaker I'm on there very occasionally now With this job that I have But the

Speaking of airbrushing There was a great little bit On Jericho's podcast With Kevin Owens this week Was it this week That uh Where he talked about how When he showed up to the performance center

I think he and he and uh Finn showed up at the same time and Owens was like, Owens had like a, you know, a singlet that prepared to wrestle and he was like, I'm a WW wrestler. I can't wear my shorts and T-shirts anymore.

And, uh, and Inzo Amore walks over and he's like, what are you doing? And he's like, yeah, it's my WW outfit. And he's like,

no, put on your shorts and your t-shirt. And, uh, and Owens didn't have a t-shirt. He had like a pair of shorts. And then, like, said he had a Guns and Roses t-shirt or something,

turn it inside out and got Finn's, uh, uh, white grease paint and wrote fight on it. And that's like, really? like he changed outfits because of Inzo at the last minute. And Inzo also in the same like interaction told Finn to put his grease paint on.

Like Finn was just going to go out as a normal guy and he was like, no, go be the demon. I feel like Enzo is going to be like the new Michael Hayes. Inzo is, well, in the best possible way. Yeah. No, no, just in the talking to Mark Henry. Yeah, no, that's not. That's not good. Anyway, so Inzo is, yeah, he's the best.

He's one of everybody's favorite wrestlers. But we should not overlook the fact that he's also just the most important human being alive when it comes to putting over raw champions right now or like making he's like the he's like the secret booker of uh of the heavyweight division right now on uh on on on on on on law at least uh anyway dan dan dan uh is dan san jraine everybody he's just managed to get himself banned for life from this show we'll do that at half time heat yeah exactly uh that sort of insincentivity as enzo would say you can't teach that human rights thanks again to w w w k-k17 for sponsoring today's episode, get ready once again to be taken to suplex city, courtesy of

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