The Press Box - Ep. 223: 'The Masked Man Show' — 2016's Best and Worst of WWE With Dan St. Germain and Steve Kazee

Episode Date: December 21, 2016

The Ringer's David Shoemaker welcomes Dan St. Germain and Steve Kazee to discuss 'Roadblock' (1:43) and provide their 2016 WWE highlights and lowlights, including ‘WrestleMania 32,’ AJ Styles, Brock Lesnar, and Sasha-Charlotte (31:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. Today's episode of Channel 33 is brought to you by Seekek, the presenting sponsor for my podcast, as well as the only fan-friendly app for buying and selling tickets for sports and music. With just two taps on your phone, you can instantly buy Seekkeek tickets to an event and you can enter that event just using your phone. No paper tickets. Drop your old ticket app. Use one that's built for 2016. Download the free Seatgeek app or go to Seekgeek.com. Welcome to the first.

The Mask Man Show. It's our holiday urine spectacular. Also our roadblock into the line recap. I'm here with my two best friends in the entire world. Dan St. Germain and Steve Kazee. Thank you. That's really nice. I didn't bring you a gift at all. It's okay. I don't do gifts. I just decided that yesterday. And professional wrestling insight. Wow. The gift of laughter. That should just say that. Whenever somebody says that, they're usually in a real emotional low in their life. I'm bringing you the gift to laughter. I lost my son five years ago to heroin addiction. Oh, geez.

Wow, man. No one's ever offered to bring me the gift of laughter in that situation before. So we were just talking about Smackdown as this show. We're going to talk about Robloch. Of course, we're going to hit on Raw. And we're going to talk about it. We're going to ring in or we're going to celebrate the end of the year by talking about each of our highlights and low lights the year. But we were talking about Smackdown as we, as we're going to, as we're going to celebrate the end of the year.

we came on the air. And I've always thought this is like the biggest missed opportunity for WWE. Barry Corbin basically just smart mouths his way into the main event, right?

He's going to get a title shot. Smart in quotes. Well, okay. But like shouldn't like why? I know it's, I know that everybody on the roster can't be work shooting all day, but like why can't you give that role

to some, like, to like, Ginger Mahal or like someone that literally doesn't deserve to be in the main, like by all, like, according to the storyline, someone that has not earned it. Right. Just have them come out and like, you know, hit AJ Styles with a chair because everybody knows that if you do that, you get a championship match.

I mean, that's a good angle, I think. I really, I thought that, I was, that was my fantasy booking for, for Drew McIntyre for about 19 years. No, they never happen. Still may happen. Yeah, who knows. Come back in the cruiser weight division. But if he comes back, then he deserves, then like by wrestling logic, he just, he just,

gets a title shot, so it's not even going to be that shocking. I actually got signed to the Cruiserweight Division. Did I tell you guys that? Really? Yeah, they're taking everybody these guys. Are you more... As the year wraps up and we're thinking about the things that disappoint us in the year, are you more disappointed by the lack of drug testing for Brock Lesner or the lack of weight testing

for Neville? Like, what do you think is a more significant blind spot? Actually, to be fair, I'm happy for Neville because he was just... I am too. I'm wasted for so long. Oh, it's great. You know, it's a little, it's a heavy-handed on the heel right now. Like, all of a sudden he's just like, oh, I'm so pissed off and I'm here.

I thought he was like a little mini version of, like, Bad News Barrett the other night. I'm excited about it. The worst thing about it for me, actually, is that it reminded me of Bad News Barrett and how much I wish he was still employed by WW. Yeah. Where is he right now? Shout out to Stu. I just read an interview with him yesterday about, like, you know, life after the WWEs.

He seems like a wrestling source. Yeah, I forget it was on the Twitter. I feel like every time you leave WBE, it's like that scene in Shawshank Redemption with the Rain. You know, you're like, oh, I'm finally out of this. Unless you're like Sina or something. Yeah. I mean, it's, oh, it's, oh, it's a, it's a, oh, it's a, it's a, it's a, oh, it's a, it's a, I'm going to check this out. I just loved, I just loved Wade Barrett.

I mean, and every time, I feel like every time, the more people got excited about him, the more I was just like, I just felt sick that I knew it wasn't going to work for. some reason, but he was shotguned into a main event role almost immediately and just and lived up to the, I mean, and he carried it. Yeah. I mean, more, better than almost anybody else good. Yeah. And then never really got his stuff on track. I mean, he got hurt a lot, which is, you know, that's not the booking department's fault

or anything, but it's, it's a, yeah, well, anyway, maybe you'll make a comeback. How old is he? Because I mean, Goldberg, Goldberg has established that he probably has at least 40 years left in his career. Yeah, I think he's like 36. Something like that. He was kicking around for a while. Yeah, he'll be right. Well, you might find yourself in some auditions next to him, Steve.

Listen, it was a pretty common occurrence that somebody on Twitter would be like, Are you Bad News Barrett? Or any time I would go to WrestleMania and be walking through. They would be like, Midder's Barrett! Really? Yeah, and I would just like wave my hand. It's weird because up close we look nothing alike. He's like 6 to 8.

Yeah. You know, but from a distance is just the beard, I think. Well, that's great, man. So did anything else happen on Smackdown, Dan, that I need to be excited about? Shoemaker is completely just tapped out from wrestling. No, I remember, I think it was like, okay, here's what my opinion of Smackdown. I enjoyed watching it last night, but I forget almost everything that happened. We got a Becky Lynch version of El Generico last night.

Oh, that was great. Oh, yeah. I totally forgot about that. That was awesome. Very spider lady-esque. She was, and yeah, and her character work. Yeah. I'm talking to a Tony Award winner, but it was pretty amazing.

Becky Lynch is good, man. When they use it the right way, when she turns it on, she's good. I think she's great. You know, I'm doing my year-end awards for the ringer.com. And if I'm out of sorts, it's because I was up to like 3 in the morning, not getting that done, but trying. And I was, at first I was trying to do like the regular awards, It's like best baby face, best heel, that kind of stuff.

And there are two, basically two things for me that characterize the entire year. One is feuds, like long feuds. I'm trying to do match of the year. And I'm just like, why the hell am I trying to decide which Sina Stiles matches the best or which Charlotte Sasha matches the best? It's just like what matters is like the set, you know? It's the entire feud. Sina Owens. I mean, there's so many of these.

Was Sina Owens this year? I think that was... No, it was this year, right? This was this year? This earlier this year, yeah. And... And... But then I was looking at baby face and heels, and the heel...

The heels this year is just out of control, right? Yeah, it was the year of heels. I mean, there was like a heel champion, basically for the entire year. And there was no baby face. I mean, that was a thing. Is it like, they've... I mean...

I don't even know who are your baby faces right now, other than the new day. I was watching... I was watching Roadblock with Robert Green, the my documentary and director friend who directed Fake It's So Real there was a screening of it the other day and he just looked at me

at the end of the show when Raines and Rollins were attacking Jericho and Owens and he was like this is like Jocks beating up nerds like there's nothing and I was just like yeah I'm like deeply uncomfortable about this there are no heroes right now there's no like I mean you know

I guess some of the Cruiserweight guys are meant to sort of be heroes but there's yeah it was just when you go to cruiser's so I was looking my list is I mean, I don't even remember what I wrote down, but like, as I, like, when you're trying to say, like, the top heels of the year, it's like, number one is Becky. I mean, baby faces. Number one is Becky Lynch. Yeah. And number two is, like, American Alpha. Like, I don't even, like, it's, I don't even know how to, if you're really, like, going by any pure definition.

Yeah, I don't know. So anyway, all that is to say, Becky Lynch is good when she turns it on, but she's also just really good. I mean, she's, like, over, like, crazy. And there was, I think there's, you know, I think she kind of, they had to get her out of the raw women's division to make Charlotte and, Tasha matter as much as they do because she was over more than them in a lot of the time. Yeah, she's one of those rare people that, almost like a Ziegler in the way that she's just always over with the crowd. It doesn't matter, you know, but she continues to put in like good work too. But I think she could have like a really long run of just like stinky matches and people still for some reason.

They just really get behind her. Yeah. I think she gets a lot of that the John Cena fan base in the audience too. And it's not, that's not a knock. I mean, AJ Stiles was getting a lot of that when he was a baby face. She just has something that just kind of like grabs the kind of... Indy Styles is still probably the biggest baby face. Not by pure definition, but as far as pops.

Yeah, no. That's the world that we live in right now. It's very weird. And it's, I mean, I feel like with Roadblock just really underscored it more than... I mean, yeah, just made it just made it so blatantly clear. So let's talk about Roadblock. Uh, what was your, I, I feel like I enjoyed roadblock. And again, I watched it like an hour late and without sound.

So it was a little bit of a different, like experience than normal. But I enjoyed it more than I think most people are like online seem to enjoy it. Well, I, I didn't love it. I didn't like it. I, I'm a, I don't know. I think, I think my greatest fear of 2016 is coming true, which. is that the brand split has really watered down the product quite a bit

and now pay-per-views don't feel special anymore. They feel like a Sunday night show. That's true. It feels like a regular like, oh, WWE has a Sunday night show now. I don't know. I've really liked the Smackdown paper views. The two that I've been a couple of see. TLC was good.

And then I thought the furt, no mercy, was good. I think there's been a couple good ones. I mean, I agree Steve wholeheartedly that it's just too much. I mean, it's hard. It's the, there's the amount of content makes it hard to really get into it. I'm with Dan on that. Raw, for whatever reason,

because I do think Raw has the better roster, has just, I'm now switched to, like, enjoying SmackDown more. You do with wrestling, you do more with less. I think that SmackDowns prove that. Like, they would, are we doing, I guess I will wait until we get the awards, but they've done so much with so little,

of a roster this year, it's been incredible. Opposing to Raw, if you had told, you know, any smart mark or whatever, like, what the Rawl roster was going to be. Oh, yeah. You're going to have Sammy Zane and Kevin Owens and Jericho and Seth Rollins and Brock Lesner. And Brock Lesnar. He'd be like, oh, well, of course they're going to be. Rousseau, Roman Raines.

I mean, like Charlotte, Sasha Banks. Finn Ballard. Yeah, Baller when he was around. And they just have, they haven't known what to do. Yeah. It's weird. It's funny because, I mean, there are, we talk about, like, kind of the rules of professional rest, like the unwritten rules that we all, that kind of govern the way that we watch.

But for the most part, a lot of those rules are just WWE rules, right? Yeah. Because a lot of what SmackDown's doing is, like, taking plays from the, like, in, from, like, the territorial days playbook, where it's just like, shit, we only have six guys that showed up for TV. What are we going to do? And it's like, well, you know, put Steve Kizzee in a mask and put him in and make him go out there three times. But like, when Ziegler won the number one contendership last week, I just felt like if that had happened on Raw,

I would have known exactly what was going to happen over the next three weeks. And the fact that it happened on Smackdown were like, you know, Ziegler is like the top baby face in line, nominal baby face in line for that title. Like it was just, like I honestly didn't know what was going to happen. I certainly didn't guess Baron Corbin was going to be involved. But that's the, you know, that's a side. secondary thing.

I think the biggest thing was that New Day's rain ended. And that's, I thought it was, they did not pick the team to end that rain too. Cesarro and Seamus, I still don't care about that team. I think it's interesting that they're doing a pure

face and a pure heel and nobody's turned to the other side. It's weird that it's gone, it's weird that they didn't, there wasn't more of a shift in their interpersonal dynamic after the bar scene, right, when they decided they were drinking buddies. Right.

I agree. I think it's just a little bit grating now. It's like they should, like, I enjoy watching them wrestle and I enjoy, I like the idea of it a whole lot. I think that, I think that it's, I don't know, there's just something a little bit handy about it. I'm still bummed out that that's

who they decided to drop the titles too. Yeah, I've like, you know, my expectations are trained to be really low for all of the sort of like indie darlings that make it to WWE. The weird thing is that almost all of them have succeeded in the past year or so. I think the club is the one that's actually living up to my expectations,

which is just like they're going to milk it for every little bit of smart fan pop they can get, and that's the full extent of it. It's possible because I don't, I mean, I know there's a path forward for them, but I don't see it right now. I don't know, you know, because... On Monday night, it felt like they were, to me, at least, and I know this is splitting hairs. I mean, this is just my opinion,

but it felt like they actually found the right, the right place between funny and serious. Yeah. Like they were doing the, they were doing just enough of the, like, to sweet me stuff, but still coming across as like kind of a legitimate physical threat.

But yeah, I don't, I don't know. I mean, but did we see, because part of my question about the whole Cesarro Seamus thing is that it feels to me like maybe that's just going to be a short-lived run

to get the belts off of the new day. Mm-hmm. The story now is like the new day. Like, what do they do without the belts? The story isn't what do Shemus and Cesarro do with the belts. It's like, okay, no, what's New Day's journey now? Because they've been the champions for so long. How do they get them?

Because they're still the hottest tag team there. I mean, they still pop harder than anybody else. So you can't relegate them to some midcard where you don't have anybody to wrestle them anyway. I think you put them in the main event scene. Right now, after Monday night? I mean, after Sunday night, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there's room for, I mean, there's room for, that's, that's, that's

part of the Smackdown versus Raw thing we're talking about. Like with the roster the size that it is, the fact that they didn't just, I mean, Kevin Owens is one of the top three MVPs of the year

and I'm so happy that he's there. But, you know, if you have like a giant hole at the top of the heel side of your roster and you don't even, you don't think for five minutes about, you know,

Kofi Kingston or someone or Big E. Like, you're crazy. And if it was SmackDown, they'd be in top of the roster right now. Yeah, that's like the one, I mean, one of the, they've taken a lot of lessons from the attitude era laid, and that's the one

that they seem to be just totally, or maybe they're just waiting for the right moment to pull that trigger, but it's like, you, just because you're in a faction doesn't mean you can't stay in the faction and compete at the top of the card. And underdogs you can root for, you know, you can't really root for anybody else in the main event scene right now. Yeah. On a pure wobble anyway, on raw. It's funny that the tag team side on both shows that we have kind of odd couple

pairings. And I mean, I guess Smackdown's last, I mean, you know, Rhino and Heath Slater were an odd couple pairing too. Yeah. This is kind of like, though. Who was it for, was it, was it Bischoff, wherever that supposedly said that tag team wrestling was dead, you know, 15 years ago and everybody gave him shit for it. But this is what he meant.

Like in his head, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash were tag team of the future or whatever because they were established stars in their own rights. Right. Yeah, I mean, I keep having this weird sneaking feeling that we're going to. to have one, at least one title versus title match at WrestleMania, and I wonder if this isn't the look to have, just to get Cesarro

and Seamus and Randy Orton and Bray Wyatt all on the WrestleMania card. Like, I don't, but, you know, this is not based on any knowledge. Possible. We'll see. I don't know. The tag team division and both are, is in shambles. I'm a purist. I'm like old school. I like tag teams. I like real

tag teams. Like, we'll talk later. We'll talk later about like, yeah, DIY and the revival, but the revival. specifically, like built to be a tag team. Yeah. Like, they look like each other. Yeah. Sort of had the same vibe.

They come from the same place. You know, it's the same sort of, it's the same gimmick. It's not like, oh, here's an oddball and here's, you know, a big superstar. Let's put them. It's not the rock and sock connection. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which I fucking love.

Don't get me wrong. No, no, but it feels like, you know what it feels like for both to, it almost feels like they had nothing to do for Wyatt and Orton and they have nothing to do for Seamus and Cesaro and their backstage they're like, what the hell? What are you doing with us guys? We'll put the tag belt on you. Right. It almost feels like

a political move rather than an actual booking decision. Although, I totally agree, although again, back to the Raw versus Smackdown divide, I have the utmost confidence that the Orton Wyatt thing is like a very well-written long-term strategy. I do feel like it might be a long con

to have Wyatt versus Orden Yeah something Because otherwise It makes no fucking sense Yeah It's definitely on my list of like I think they should give Wyatt

A lucha costume at this point Who? Wyatt I give him a lucha costume Switch it up a little bit He's great But I mean It's the same shit every week

Well speaking of Wyatt His old His old running buddy Bronz Stromen Closed out Raw How How are we to take this. Can I say

I'm going to jump the shark a little bit that and this is more of a I'm saying this more just to give an example of what my worst booking decision but my favorite booking decision this year has been Braun-Stromen because at least it's been normal

like at least it's been like for raw it's like oh yeah we'll have like a bunch of jobbers go against him and he's a monster heel and this totally makes sense. I'm not talking about the character I do actually like Bronz-Strauman but just like, and I'll, okay, I'll give it to some perspective. Like, I think the worst booking decision this entire year was Seth Rollins coming back,

having that amazing pop, and then them just squandering his fate, what could have been an amazing, like, white, hot face run because they were like, well, let's do something different and kind of make him a tweener, opposed to Brown Stremler. It's like, yeah, he's a big guy who beats people up. Yeah. Okay, great. Pure evil.

Are you biased because you have a, you've had a personal, interaction with Broncherman? I have. We talked about this on the pie? I don't think so. We went to Shoemaker and I went to SummerSwam together and I stayed and I don't live in New York anymore. New York misses me, but I'll be back guys.

I went to a, I was at a hotel near the Barclay Center and I went down stairs and on the elliptical was Bronz Strowman. And it kind of took a little of the intimidation out of it. There's no way to look badass on an elliptical. And I kind of looked in there and I'm pretty sure he was reading Teen Vogue. I'm not sure. but it was definitely it was really bizarre

it was like seeing like your dad in his underwear or something like that but not as hot it does mess with the mystique you would think that Braunstraman would just go down and pick up the elliptical machine and like just that was his workouts a couple of elliptical machines

I mean it's unwieldy I think that would be a really good workout yeah do you think what are what do you think we're going Steve where do you think we're going with Braun Stromen? I don't know because I don't know who you put him with

Like, it's like whenever you build these guys up As like these, you know, giant Brutes who can, like, no one can beat them. Like, sure, we get a David and Goliath where Sammy Zane's going to, you know, chop down the big Bronstrom-Strauman tree. That was really well done. That was well done.

It's great. It's super great storyline. But that's going to work for like, what, two matches, maybe? Oh, yeah. And then you've got Bronz Strowman there who's going to get beat by Sammy Zane. There's no way. I don't think you let Sammy Zane lose that match.

I don't think they're even doing that. I mean, are they, Well, they did that. I think that there's a big plan that I heard online, which is going to be the ultimate bathroom break at WrestleMania, is Stroman versus Raines at Mania for the title, for Universal Title. That's what I've heard. For the title?

That's what I heard. That's what I heard. The Universal Championship. No thanks. I say. Or it may not be the title, but that's going to be like a big round match. I don't mind that. But I think that's great because then you can.

get rid of, I think it's great that Raines is going against Kevin Owens that stupid stipulation match for Rumble with the Shark Cage thing. Because now we know that Roman Rains is not winning the Royal Frumple. We are assured that he's not winning the Royal Rumble which is a big deal.

And so Owens versus Jericho at WrestleMania, like once you once you just put one of the one puzzle piece in it's a rabbit hole right now. It's like a K hole right now for sure. I've just like, oh God, like these are the possibility. It's going to be, I think it's going to be a better

meaning than last year. Well, here's hoping. It's not in a better city. I'll tell you that much. Where's an Orlando? Orlando. Doesn't even know that comes. The scene just comes really hard on Orlando. Every time it comes up. Have you ever lived in Orlando? No, have you lived there? Yeah, I lived there. What did you live there for? Were you

part of it? Did you like do one of the Sea World shows? No. I don't know how you musical people started. I worked at Disney for like a week. No, you didn't. Seriously? Is it true that you can't point with a finger? You've got to use the whole hand? Yeah, it's offensive. One finger. It was offensive to some countries. So that you have to give a Nazi salute when you point out where things are?

Actually, I think there's like, I think two fingers is okay. Like you can say like, oh, it's over there. It's like flight attendant. Who were you? Gaston. No, God, no. I've like worked one of the rides. Oh, you worked a ride.

But I never actually, I went through Disney University. It was like four days or five days of training. Oh, my God. By the way, eight hours a day. That's training. That's how low you can, or like your, how you can cut your hair, how your sideburns had to be a certain length. Like, it was ridiculous.

No piercings, no tattoos, like, all of this stuff. And then you learned about the history of Disney. It wasn't indoctrination. I mean, it was very, there were moments where it felt very sort of, like, kind of strange. Yeah, exactly. But no, I actually, I only went through the training, and then I luckily booked an acting job, and I was like, see ya. Yeah, thank God.

Is there still a no tattoo policy now that Moana's come out? And they're like, one of their stars has tattoos all over there? I think they've laxed their policy a little bit, just to sort of be more inclusive. But they can only be tribal. I mean, I think tribal tattoos are your main issue in Florida. Anyway, so, yeah, it's there. It's there in Orlando. That's great.

I mean, I'm probably going to go, but I won't be happy about it. I'm going there just to. I can't make this joke. I was about to make a. I was about to make that alligator attack that kid. And I didn't, guys, I didn't. I just want to say I didn't do it. So, I mean, are we going to get the Hall of Fame down there?

They're just going to do the formal announcement. They're not going to, is the Hall of Fame going to be ready for WrestleMania? Didn't they? They already announced that it's definitely going to be in Orlando, right? I mean, it could be. Why couldn't it be? Might be getting done right now, Shoemaker. That's how people in Florida work, man.

They get things erected overnight. Actually, I don't think they do work. That's a great point. Um, so enough of, enough of the WrestleMania rabbit hole. We'll touch it. We'll get more into that, uh, in the new year. Mm-hmm. Before we get away too far away from roadblock, is there anything that, that bears any sort of discussion?

Uh, obviously, Rusef and big cast. I like the Iron Woman match. A lot of people didn't. I thought it was good. Um, Schilling said he didn't. We were DMing bagging for it. Really? Yeah, we DM behind his wife's back.

What did what the hell is showing not like about this? Where is he? it off, not enjoying this... I don't think he liked it that much. I don't know. He wasn't, like, totally against it. Let me see. Let me just make sure I don't sell him out.

No, no, just make up stuff that he said. It's more fun that way. I actually, I really enjoyed that match. And that's... Oh, no, I think he did like it. That's the... I talk about that. He said he liked another match better.

What did he like better? He liked... I don't know who wanted to say. These are exclusive showing DMs, but he liked False Can Anywhere better, which I think that probably was a better match. Oh, yeah, of course. Yes, yes, yes.

I mean, they've had two raw, I think they're two best matches in this feud of laying it out last night and rewatching or the Falls County Anywhere match and they had a match back in October, both on Raw. Which is not to take anything away from the pay-per-view matches, but, you know, they got like 11 minutes

at SummerSlam or whatever, you know? It's not like they're working on epic, epic novels here. I hit a wall with Sasha Charlotte at Road Bull. I hit a roadblock with them. I don't want them to wrestle anymore.

Well, I don't think they're going to, so that's good for you. I'm happy. I don't want to see Sasha Banks limping around. She's like now become the Dolph Ziegler of injuries. She's like constantly injured. And I don't believe she's... Looks like she's shooting with Nia Jax now, so she's going to continue limping around.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Are they going to use her to put over Nia Jax? We'll see. It's going to... This is a weird time to do sort of like a hard reset in the raw women's division because we're so close to Russellmania.

Well, the money match is Niagara Jackson's Bailey, right? Because it's the ultimate David Goliath. Well, I don't think. Well, the money match, well, if you look at the way that all the pay-per-views has been booked for the past year, the money match to WWB or Vince McMahon or whatever, is clearly Charlotte going over. So, like, do them, like, try to extrapolate from there.

She's good. I think, yeah, I think we're more, I think, I don't, I think we're even more likely to see Charlotte, like Charlotte, baby face and take on Nia Jacks than Bailey in the main event but I could be totally wrong no not Bailey in the main event Bailey the main event without Charlotte I really like the match I really like the Iron Woman match sorry the Iron Man match and the the reason why I loved it so much is because it built off of the like the the listen I get it you can be

tired of it whatever but it every time that they've wrestled it increases the sort of like the symbolic or like the vocabulary for for you for the fans watching the match so like in a regular wrestling match like if you're just watching you know a job or get squashed back in 1986 or whatever like if you're going to have your special move reversed in the match you have to like successfully do the match do or if you're having any move reversed it's like successfully do the move and then so so that the fans watching for the first time will understand that's a move so that then when it's reverse, everyone, like, intuitively knows what's going on, right? It's not just, like, a mistake. Yeah. But, like, on Sunday, they were reversing moves without any setup, right? I mean, it was, like, they would just, like, go to, like, Charlotte would do, like, her third most notable move,

and Sasha just, like, refers it out of nowhere. That's just a small example, but of how, like, just, like, I said, the vocabulary of, like, what they're doing is built up to the point that, even though I don't think that was their best match, I just, there was something, like, really fulfilling. Really, it just made me feel And also, as good, I mean, I think the Falls County anywhere was probably the best on all counts,

but really, especially compared to like Helen the Cell and some of their other matches, Sunday felt like they were comfortable in a way that I wasn't, that I hadn't seen them before. Sometimes, like, sometimes Sasha's bumping just looks like painful and like all the bumps are ill time. I love the ending of the match where, because I was always wondering on Iron Woman, Iron Man matches,

where she got the figure four in, and I'm like, well, why wouldn't she just keep going? Yeah. You know, that's like, why wouldn't you just keep using the move and get multiple, you know, submissions out of it? So I thought that was awesome. Here's my only pushback to what you just said. I don't disagree with anything you said,

because when you dance with somebody 100 times, you start to have like a different vocabulary. My problem was with the story behind it all and the flip-flopping of the belt so many times. Yeah. And the raw stuff was annoying. I thought one of the best things that happened was Charlotte turning on her dad.

Like that whole segment when she was like, you're pathetic and like get out of here and she slapped the shit out of him. Like I was like, all right, where is this going to go? But then, you know, for him to just like come out for Sasha. Yeah. It made no sense. It made no sense. They didn't play that.

They didn't play that through. Like there was more to be mind there of like, all right, well then let him like really mentor her. Like make it mean something. Make him like, you know, turn on Charlotte in some way to provoke her in some way to then make me care about the fact that she's going to go out and beat the hell out of Sasha Banks again. And one of the most brilliant moments of the year, actually, I thought was when Charlotte lost and she was crying, I mean, crying, and saying I failed as she was like up the ramp after the match.

She was like stunned. She was like, I failed. And I thought, how does this now go? Like, I'm interested in that. And then the next day they were like, like, oh, let's why don't you guys wrestle again? And then we'll give you the belt back. Right. That belt changed hands like five times.

It was really annoying when Sasha kept like winning like on Raw and they kept like almost repeating the magical moment thing. I'm sorry. No, I totally agree. I'm, you know, let's take a quick break and we'll get right back into Sasha's Charlotte because this is my favorite thing to talk about for the entire year. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsor. Today's episode of The Maskman Show is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. If you enjoy basketball, you need to check it out. The Ringer NBA show, where every week, the Ringer's own Chris Vernon hosts an all-star cast of Ringer staffers, NBA players, front office personnel, and more.

I wonder who that more is. To discuss all things happening in the association. You can subscribe to the show on iTunes by going to iTunes.com slash the Ringer or find out wherever you get podcasts. That was awesome. Were you, were you subscribing right then? Is that what that noise was? Yeah, you wanted to hear that NBA podcast. Yeah, that's the beginning of the NBA podcast.

Listen, I told, I said for the end of the year, we're going to say, I was, we're going to do, like I said, best baby face, best TEO match of the year. I was like, forget it. Let's just do our personal highlight and low light or letdown of the year. I just had to say, we were setting it up. I mean, my highlight of the year was really hard, but my, my highlight of the year was really hard. But my highlight of the year was the Charlotte and Sasha feud. And I think that it's... What really sold me on it was watching that match on Sunday,

realizing how much I was appreciating it more than if that should have been like the exact same match had happened in January or whatever. Yeah. And also just watching... I mean, you know, I'm the biggest Sasha Banks mark in wrestling fandom. But I was just watching that match and just, like,

couldn't stop, couldn't get over the fact that Charlotte is the best heel in professional wrestling. Like that's, hands down. Like she was just, like,

she still has a little bit of a, of a, you know, of a high school drama affect when she's cutting her long promos and not in a terrible way. Just a little bit of that. Just a little bit of like the,

but I feel like it's necessary. I feel like even all, like her only flaw is the mic. But the way that she's, But I feel like she's doing it to work the crowd in a certain way. Yeah. And she's like becoming, she's nothing like her dad. She's becoming her dad.

I mean, she's like all the things that made Rick Flair great. She's steadily just like lining them up. Yeah. Anyway, all of that is to say, to touch on what we were talking about before, like, I don't mind the belt going back and forth because I think that you make the case. I mean, it's easy enough to make the case that, you know, these are, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it's, it's not just there, it's, like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, and, Spider- Silva and people who were just going to destroy somebody in a matter of minutes. And it's sort of like being along for the ride, knowing that eventually they're going to fail that's cool.

And squashes have their place in professional wrestling. But we know it's fake, so they have to earn it. Like it's got to be these, you know, the matches have to be competitive or fake competitive. And I feel like that what they're doing is really elevated the women's title in Raw. Now, you can argue both ways. And I do totally take what you say, Dan, because I think it's the booking. as far as like what's happening on certain days and rerunning certain, like, certain moments.

And it's, I feel like they, I feel like, I don't say this is a smart mark. They, we would all be better served if somebody, if a member of the creative team was explaining what they were trying to do on every night for this feud because it's been mind-boggling at times just as far as just like trying to discern the arc. But, like I said, it's been the year of big, I mean, of long feuds.

and as much as some of these other ones have been really great, this is the one that's just defined 2016 for me. Anyway, that's end of my rant. Fair enough. All right. Who wants to go next? Dan, highlight of the year. You are looking at me.

So, yes, I will go next. Two. Can I do two? Yeah, I guess. Yes, you can do two. Well, they're very different. Even though, okay, honorable mention Nakamura, just, you know, the violin entrance of the one pay-per-view.

Just the entrance or his whole existence? His whole existence, but the entrance. But I wanted you a moment, a highlight, right? So I would say one, AJ Stiles was John Sina at SummerSlam. I watched it live with you. And then, two, the final deletion. Because both of those brought me incredible amounts of joy. in different ways.

I mean, Jeff Hardy chasing after a drone on a dirt bike or whatever that was is one of the greatest things to ever happen in wrestling. It was pretty incredible. I guess now it's because he's turn. Oh, is it my turn?

My highlight of the year? Well, it's personal because we were there in Dallas for this, but I also think it was like one of the best debuts and going and going away's and I just thought overall the intensity of the match

matched the intensity of the moment and for me it would have been Nakamura Sammy Zane at NXT Dallas it was being in the room was incredible but then watching it back on TV

was like somehow even better because you just see more of it and you were even though you were a part of it but those two guys, it's a shame you only got that one sort of like, you know, kickoff, see you by, got to go, because I look forward to seeing those guys wrestle again. I mean, at some point, if Nakamura can translate, which I don't, how does he not? I don't say. How does he not? But weirder things have happened. But that's two people I look forward to seeing wrestling again.

And I thought it was one of the best matches of the year, if not the best match of the year. And I know this is a weird comparison, but he's the closest. thing they've had to the Undertaker in the sense that he's otherworldly. Right. And like, and I think it's in almost like mysterious class of his own. Doesn't need to talk all that much. No, doesn't need to, you know, has almost something supernatural about how he moves. Yeah.

It is, yeah, he's just, he's just an incredible all-around performer. It bears mention, I was doing the, you know, my, my year-end sort of research. When we're talking about matches of the year, he had a match that, he had a legit match of the year candidate against A.J. Stiles at New Japan Russell Kingdom in January, like at the very beginning of the year. So like that's how, that's like the distance that we've come in 2016 is that AJ styles

and Nakamura had a match to your candidate before they both came to WWE. He became the WWE and NXT champion. And that, yeah, and yeah, exactly. And both, and like any, like your match of the year, if you're going to put together a top five of WWE matches, yeah, Nakamura Zane is

almost certainly on your list. I mean, I would, I I have, that's definitely on mine. And then AJ Sina, I mean, whichever. Yeah, exactly. DIY revival, I think, has got to be up there at takeover Toronto. Yeah. I mean, that match was. I know this is really, I feel like I'm being biased, but like my biggest hang up for Zane Nakamura was that like, I think of it as them working a style.

And it's not just like, like, I feel like the best match of the year will ward to go to some sort of like generalist. but it's crazy because when I rewatched it, it was just a perfect wrestling match. Yeah, that's the thing about it. Like, when I was thinking about it last night, I thought, well, there was no story here. There was no sort of, like, you know, there was no sort of, like, lead up to it.

There was no promo to it. It was just like, oh, he's coming. Like, Nakamura is going to be here, and Sammy Zane's going to take it. And, like, we're all going to, like, watch it, and it's going to be amazing. And it was. And sometimes it's just nice to, like, have that.

You know, it's like going to, like, an indie show almost. You know, you just watch two guys wrestle that, like, you're not getting promos for every week, but they're two really good performers and they tell a good story. And I mean, his entrance was like, I don't know. It's incredible. He's going to fuck a great entrance.

I saw, I mean, the, you know, I ended up, like I said, not doing a list, but like one of the matches that was on my, on my short list for match of the year was a PWG match that I saw live, which was like Rickashay, Will Osprey, and Matt Seidall, Evan Bourne, versus the Young Bucks and Adam Cole.

and but like yeah I mean but like when I started throwing things out that was the first like that might have been the best match

that I saw this year by like some metric but it was like the first one out when I started winnowing things down because it was very much

like an indie style like it was just a lot of it was its own it's a certain style of match and not anyway I mean

it was a incredible I think my overall highlight of the year is like AJ styles like his entire year I mean How quickly he came in established himself as, like, the top tier. And I think it was, and I was thinking about this on the way, it's the podcast today.

You know, every John Cena match over, like, the best John Cena matches in my mind were, like, this series with CM Punk and then Daniel Bryan. But both of those had an element of, like, hey, I'm still the underdog. And AJ Stiles, it was more, even though CM Punk was like, I'm better than you. AJ Stiles, it was more, no, I'm actually fucking better than you. And that's why I like that SummerSlam match, right? I'm a better, I'm better at professional wrestling. And he made John Cena better. He made him a better performer.

Do we even have, like, what is the, we probably can't even think of all the names, but he certainly has had either the best match or the second best match in John Cena's career and Dean Ambrose's career and Roman Reyes's career. Is that the end of the list? Best match in Romer Ray's career, probably maybe second best matches. Sina, CM Punk of Money the Bank is still, I think, the best. It's really great. I think that I like C I like Punk with I like Sina with Punk better than I liked him with Daniel

Ryan just because I felt like they had a little chemistry is not even the right word but they just kind of like meshed a little bit better yeah um but AJ but AJ is a J's better than AJ has for it felt better with Sina than punk and part made but a lot of that's just Sina getting I mean I I I should say that like I should have mentioned Sina when I was talking about the baby the company the baby you know the the the top baby faces of the year because I think that with the existence of Roman Reigns, we've all been able to embrace Sina as a baby face a little bit more. Even the booze are almost respectful.

Yeah, I mean, he's, yeah, definitely. And I think it took, it took something, it took like Sina to the nth degree, which is, you know, in Roman Rains of this sort of like, you know, mandate from above top baby face. It feels like appreciate, like, it feels, you know what it feels like, it feels like when you're annoyed at your dad,

but then you spend like the weekend with your friend and you meet his other dad, he's like a drunk and has a gun, and you're like, you know, dad's not so bad. He's okay, you know? He tries, he tries. But yeah, no, I just, I thought that they worked really well together. And Sina's been, Sina definitely deserves a mention.

I mean, because as beloved as A.J. and Kevin Owens are, they are, I mean, they were working heel, you know. I mean, they were very much, like, you know, they had to, like, beat up John Sina to borrow the phrase to really make that. work. But let's not forget the Survivor, I mean, the 10-Man Survivor Series match, which if you really want to get a lot of people in under a technicality, that might have been my favorite, you know,

Bronz-Roman and like Shane McMahon match ever. So I don't think of you, and AJ Stiles can take responsibility for that too. Anyway, so let's, low light of the year, Biggest disappointment of the year? This is hard because my highlight of the year was certainly affected by Sunday. It was affected by recent events.

I'm making my low light of the year nomination ignoring recent events because I loved the Survivor Series main event as a booking tactic. But low light of the year for me is Brock Lesner. Like his The booking on the Survivor series I thought was really good It affected me in a very specific In a very like dramatic way And I think and I know that's what they were going for

But There's when you only wrestle like Three matches in a couple of house shows And get pinged for PEDs at UFC 200 He has had a I love Brock but I cannot defend this year of Brock Lesnar It's been when you when you just look at

I mean, Dean Amber, okay, he had, the highlight of his year by far was the triple threat match against, was it, Reins and Rollins. Oh, that was great. Yeah, at the very beginning, was that also Roadblock? No, that was, there was Roblox. That was the Royal Rumble. No, it was Rumble. It's so stupid. There was two between Rumble and Robock.

It was like some other, it was Fast lane. Fast lane. It was fast lane. And then they had Roadblock after that. It was so stupid. Yeah. Even though that amazing AAAJ Ambrose match of that one. So, yeah.

So that was this week in trying to remember WWE paper-view names. Sorry, it was Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, and Brock Lesnar. Yeah. That was by far Lesnar's biggest moment of the year, unless if somebody saw a house show match against Randy Orton that you want to make an argument for, then please let me know. But, yeah, but, I mean, and since then it's been just like a straight drop-off. His match against Ambrose at

WrestleMania was just horseshit and, you know, coupled with the fact that it was horseshit because he was already checked out and playing on going to UFC and didn't want to get hurt, which is, I think, the sort of conventional wisdom at this point. You know, again, the Randy Orton, the Randy Orton SummerSlam thing was,

like, it got us all talking, but he also just, like, can cuss the fuck out of Randy Orton for no particular reason. It was just a serious, like, Any one moment could be defensible in a better year, you know? But he just didn't do enough. And it was just sort of like, I don't know. I mean, it was like if you're, you know, give like, like, I'm sure there's some great comedy parallel.

It's like you can tell like really just total off color jokes in the midst of like an hour long set. But if you, all you do is just walk on, if you do the emcee and you just walk on stage between every act and just like just tell, just make like, you know, Jew jokes or something. than like you're a terrible comment. Yeah, exactly. Have you seen? Yeah, I know. Anyway, so that's it. He's my, he's my, he's my, he's my, he's my, Brock Lesnar.

I love him, but definitely my, my low light of the year. Yeah, I mean, I love, I love Brock. I agree with you. I do think it's kind of fun that like, you know, like to borrow all these, like, Republican senators and Democrats, and everybody who's anti-Trump, but like, but like, uh, Lesnar is not our friend. I mean, like, he's just, like, not a guy who gives a shit about what I... I love Brock Lezor.

He's one of my favorites of all time. But he's not a guy who cares what you think. And he's going to do whatever the fuck he wants. He's in it for the money. He's just a really good talent that's in it for the money. You know, so, you know, I think that in every one of his matches, you've got to realize, like, he's not going to... Unless it's somebody he personally respects, like, Take her or maybe seen her or punk. Like, he's not going to...

He's just not going to work that hard. I don't get the sense that he fires up the network and is like, let me go back and watch a match for like 96 and like sort of like, you know, let me get into the... I don't think he gives a shit about the history of it, which is fine. If you want to see Lesnar really happy, go on YouTube and there's a video of him hunting in his backyard. Right, that's what he wants to do. It's what he wants to do. And I've never... It's like a different side of Brock Lesnar.

He wants to be hunting. He wants to be on his ranch. He wants to make enough money to do that. So I say, you know, you're a freak of nature. Like, make your money. The one really interesting thing about him, and I think this year, this down year put it into focus, is that he's somehow, I mean, it's not news, but he's somehow both the most, like, legitimate performer on the roster, obviously, former UFC champion, like, the things he can do is just incredible.

But it's not, and he certainly brought this error of legitimacy when he came back to WWE, but it's also he's like this, he's like the most, he gets us going on these, like, weird meta, work shooty sort of ways in a way that nobody else can. And maybe those two things are, you know, interconnected. But there's nobody else that can, like, bust a guy open and have the entire topic of conversation on the internet be like, was that a shoot? Right.

You know? And on the flip side, Robert Green, I talked about him before, mentioned this to me at the pay-per-view this week, is that when he got, when he got beat by Goldberg, and then the word kind of trickled out that that was Lesnar's idea. You know, they're just like to, we're going to make more money at WrestleMania for the rematch. or whatever it was, just the fact that we all know that he's thinking that way and it's

so interesting, like that that becomes the storyline sort of, at least for fans like us, you know? Yeah. And that part of it is deeply interesting to me as like a writer and as a thinker and as a fan, but this has been a terrible year for him. Anyway. I'd say low light of the year for me was all of WrestleMania 32. Besides, this is a fiery hot take. maybe Zach Ryder in the beginning,

although my friend, Mike Lawrence, very funny comedian, he pointed out that that beat had already happened two years earlier when Zach Ryder's under, and even the dad thing had happened.

So they took an old beat that worked and they kind of made it work again. But like, if you go through it, the burial of the new day by a bunch of legends who got real fat, you know,

like Stone Cold, you know, like I love Stone Cold, but him, like, fat Stone Cold, beating up your hottest three black performers, when they're all faces after they lose is like real racist booking and also doesn't at all help the future of the business.

The Dean Ambrose-Lessner match, total shit. The range triple-H match, nobody gave a shit. The hell in the cell match, it was like these weird punches by Shane McMahon, an amazing spot at the end, but then nothing mattered because then the next night, he was running raw anyway. Rock, having a flamethrower that was like a Brahma bull or some stupid bullshit.

And then they beat. And then they like, he basically like, you know, called like the Wyatt's fat. So like, you know, again, kind of, what do you call somebody fat? It kind of takes away. Unless it's like Kevin Owens or something. It kind of takes away their whole mistake. And maybe I'm talking about my own childhood here. But, yeah.

Oh, and then they made, they had an AJ style, Jericho go over AJ Styles, which just didn't make any sense. It wasn't even a burial. It was just like, wait, what? Why are they doing? What? This doesn't even make any sense. So, and it was, what, five and a half hours? Saddest thing, probably.

I mean, the latter match is pretty good. But the second best match was Ryback v. Colisto in the pre-show. That's how awful that pay-per-view was. And it was five and a half hour. You remember Ryback? It was like five hours. Yeah, well, that's his legal name now. We have to refer to him by his legal name.

So I would say, WrestleMania, 32, which wasn't even the worst WrestleMania in the last 10 years, 27 was still. It was tough. It was bad. I feel like the flamethrower is just the top. totem for the whole night because it was like totally unnecessary literally came out and lit a rock sign on fire yeah and he

it seemed like he he walks more slowly to the ring than like the great collie at the end of his career like he and it was a medical problem with the great collie it wasn't yeah it wasn't it was just this like how much time can we spend with a flame throwers it was amazing it was huge

it was well look it was in Texas so it needed to be huge and just sort of like gaudy and you know wild and and you know as awful as it was like I lost my shit when Stone Cold came out because there's still that nostalgia part inside of me but I hope you're doing 10 years when he does the same thing to a new talent but on a dialysis machine yeah I will actually as soon as that fucking glass breaks I'll jump up out of my seat as long as he just gives me one stunner I just need one stutter no it's like all nostalgia but in retrospect I totally agree with you it was a it

really like worthless show And nothing came from it. Look where we are, you know, almost a year later. Nothing has mattered from that show. Nothing mattered from that show. Nothing. The triple threat women's match is really good. I just since I was going on.

There was so many other good matches that came after that. No, it's true. You're right. That was the best match of the night. That was the best match. The whole thing. I mean, in Roman reigns triple, I'm sure I said this at the time. There's, I argue a lot that like, that paper, like, we need to know when paper views are going

to end and even like the and what's I mean it's also what makes we're all interesting because it's going to run over but um you know like there's certain constrictions that we're used to that we need to know because it helps us understand what's going on in front of us like it matters if a match is running overtime you know like in very like simple but but interesting ways ressalmania 32 i feel like i just desperately needed to know when it was going to end because i needed to pee for the last two hours of the show and i was just sitting on the floor like not knowing if I had time to get out and come back even. Yeah.

It was just nuts how long it was. It was like I thought they were almost certainly canceling matches with like an hour and a half to go. So they're definitely not going to have, you know, they're going to get rid of the battle royal or whatever. But and instead they just threw in like five more segments too. Oh yeah. You left out the part where Shaquille O'Neill.

I have mixed feelings about that. And wrestled in battle royal. That was a doubt. Did that happen? It did. Yeah. Yeah. He's just setting up the big show shack match for a wrestling mania this year.

Is that even going to have... I've heard people say with utmost confidence that he's wrestling at WrestleMania this year. Also that Rhonda Rousey's going to be at WrestleMania this year, which I think there's no way anyone knows if that's true or not. I'm not talking about inside sources. I'm just talking about fans, like, reading things and... She'll be there if she loses. I agree with you.

On December 30th. Low lights tie for me. The first one would be real injuries. I think some of the best people got hurt badly this year. Finn Baller was really set to sort of like, I think, start an amazing run and would have really sort of changed the landscape from what we see today. And he got hurt and he's been out for a long time but soon to be back. Randy Orton had a pretty severe injury this year.

It was out for like nine months. Came back, got concussed, was out for like another month. It just seems like there were a lot of like real injuries. that sort of decimated the roster this year. And to me, that's always a low light because I think you keep some really talented performers from shining in a way that I think would change the industry or move the industry in a more interesting direction.

So that's my first one. My second one is championship belts. Now, hear me out. Name me one title right now. Any title in either brand that fucking matters. None of them matter. There's not one title that you feel right now that like, oh man, somebody needs to win that title. The New Day had the tag titles too long.

The Universal Championship is like maybe the worst championship ever. People are jockey. There's jockey champions. Like there's nobody who's really holding a belt and that when someone comes in the ring and says, I want that belt, that you feel like they want it. The last time I felt like somebody wanted it was Seth Rawlins. Like it felt to me like that belt mattered to him in some way. Like that being a champion.

Fucking Roman Raines has not even, I don't think he's defended the U.S. championship at this point. Yeah. The Intercontinental Championship. But AJ with WWE Championship, you don't think that this. I think it was like it was important that he won it for all of us because he did doing this so long. But it didn't, the champion, the belt doesn't matter.

It doesn't have a mystique anymore. It doesn't have like a, and I don't know if there's just too many of us. of them, I don't know if there's just, it's like, you know, boxing where you have like 400 divisional champions, you know, and it's like that guy can hold the IBO, WBA, like all these belts. It's just there's, and I know I sound like a little bit of like a, you know, an old school purist, whatever, but I just don't know that there's a title out there that matters right now. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that it's not the number of belts because, you know, back

when we were growing up, you know, the Crockett territory, the NWA had just like every, every top level person had like a, you know, North American South championship or something like that just to bring up. But yeah, you know, I mean, normally I would probably bristle against that, but I totally agree, you're right, it's, it's Rollins coming back and wanting the title that he never lost. Right. Right. I can kind of get behind John Sino whenever he goes after it because he's chasing history. But again, these aren't. These are, like, this isn't about wanting a title because it's meaningful at that moment. You know, it's meaningful to them at a point in the past, really.

Right. And I think that that's, I think that you're exactly right. I mean, what's great about, maybe it's just a, I'm in a year-in nostalgia moment, but, you know, LeBron James won the title, I mean, won the NBA championship with Cleveland and just bawled his face out on the court. Like, the most PR-driven, like, you know, controlled dude in professional sports history was, I mean, maybe that's,

maybe he's crying like a baby on purpose, but was crying like, he looked like an idiot because he was so happy. No, he sold vials of his tears afterwards. But all of that is to say that, like, the championship is what, a championship in any sport is what people work so long and so hard for.

And what you can do in pro wrestling is, get that championship on any given night. Like, if you get a chance, if you get a chance, it should be that meaningful, you know, to actually have your name in the record book and you're right. It's not at all. Well, it just, it's, look, not to be overly sentimental, but to be a champion means something. In a world of participation medals, it means something to have worked so hard

that you have on a nightly basis for 300 and some days a year gone out and given an audience, a performance that has built a momentum that has pushed you to the forefront of your industry. Not always. Roman Raines is clearly like the exception to the rule. They pushed them. But in a lot of cases, these guys and girls who work hard and sort of put in the work every day, they climb that mountain. And then when they get there and they get the belt, it should mean something because then it makes it more interesting to the person behind them who's making that climb. Right now, it's just a bunch of people fighting each other. and one of them has a red belt

and then one of them has a blue belt and maybe that person doesn't have one this week but they'll get one next week and it'll either be that white one or it'll be the one that's over here you know what we got new tag team champions so let's just make new red belts and that. So like it's just

I just don't know what the importance is like when they hang that fucking thing above the ring and people are climbing a ladder to get it there were times years ago watching those matches where I was so invested on a guy pulling a fucking belt off a chain You know, because it meant something.

It's sort of just like the, like, I don't even say good booking, but like character-driven booking has sort of gotten us to this point where every title feud is about the interpersonal relationship. It's not about the belt. I think that is it a great point. It could be about both is my argument. It's in the same way that Rollins, like, loved that money in the bank case. Like, he fucking carried that thing everywhere.

It meant something. And what happened? They sold $4 billion of those money in the bank cases. Yeah. So, rant over. No, it's true.

Yeah. This is the same rant that you gave when they started giving away honorary Tonys a couple years again? Yeah, I'm just kidding.

Earn that thing. Anyway, no, I think that's really good. I think that it's a, it's a, the brand split. We didn't,

no one actually, I expected the brand split to be on somebody's best or worst list. We talked about it a little bit earlier and it's like diluted everything. It was a, necessary evil, which is why I didn't put it on mine, because it just had to happen.

Yeah. You can't. I mean, I think the argument against, I mean, the argument in favor of the, of, you know, I mean, or against your injuries, excuse me. And I, obviously, no one wants to anybody get hurt. But as far as injury being a low light is that, you know, Kevin Owens, we wouldn't have gotten Kevin Owens champion if Finn Ballard, or probably if Finn Ballard stayed healthy. You know, there's all, it always makes an opportunity for someone else.

I agree. But it does seem like there are a lot of injuries, a lot of, with the disillust. of, I mean, the, you know, the talent's thin after the brand split. And I think that if you want to make just sort of a general, you know, meta argument, they've had been given, they've gave themselves an opportunity to really elevate talent. And they didn't do a lot of it. Yeah. Kevin Owens, obviously, is the exception.

But yeah, I mean, it's just like, like I said, it's like the, like the roadblock on Sunday ended, should, I mean, could have well ended with Owens and Jericho having tricked their way to another championship leaving as these two sneaky heels, right? The heel is victorious. Instead, they rolled in Roman Raines and Seth Rollins who, I love Seth Rollins, but man, he's just being,

all of Roman Rain's shittiness is now rubbed off on Seth Rollins. They beat him up for no reason and really, like, took their spots as the top heels in the company. So maybe that's interesting. I don't think that's what they were trying to do. Yeah, but that's what it just came across us. Yeah, it just felt like really excessive. Okay, we got to get out of here.

But the whole point of that is to say that it's, it sometimes feels like we, like we're, Owens and Jericho are us, the wrestling nerve fans, and they're just getting, they're just beating us to shit. I think we would also be doing a disservice to Chris Jericho to not at least mention the year that he's had because. Oh, he's a tie. We'd go on a whole other podcast, but just shout out to Chris Jericho for reinventing himself. Listen to Dan St. Germain's Jericho pod. It's on the iTunes store right now. Is it?

Yeah, just went out. Oh, yeah. We got to get out of here. Just a quick one. Ms. The Miz this year, Daniel Bryan, Dolfsigler, great feed. Brilliant. Yeah.

Dan, do you have some plugs? Yes, I do. A week from today, I will be in the great city of New York at 10 p.m. at the stand. Tickets are still available. I'll be doing an hour. And check out Superior Donuts in February. And I'll be coming out with a new pod. guess soon called American Monsters.

We've got to figure where that's going. All right, thanks. That's it. Those are good plugs. Pretty good. Steve, got anything? Yeah, I'll be in Portland this weekend at He He He's Comedy Laugh Factory. It's a Geisha Comedy Movie.

Yeah, I'll be doing eight shows there in two hours, so come on out and check that out. And also, Impress Scott. I'm not sure what state that's in, but it's in one of them. I'll be doing a set there at Slappy's Lafshack. So come on out. I think there was a real thing coming. you kept the bit going. Yeah.

Oh, man, I have nothing to plug. Probably a column that I'm writing that is going to end up on The Ringer this week, the ringer.com. But, you know, it's, we'll see how that goes. And anyway, I feel like I ended that. I ended the last segment on a really bad note. Happy 2000. Wait, is there a podcast?

No, this is it. This is the last one for the year. So happy 2000. Highlight of 2016, getting to do podcasts with dancing. St. Germain and David Schumann. I'm so glad I brought you guys together, finally. Oh, man. Have a Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, Happy Hanukkah, all that kind of stuff.

Enjoy the raw tribute to the troops. Wait, that hasn't happened yet, hasn't? Yeah, it already happened. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow, I did not pay tribute to the troops. I feel terrible about that. You'll be all right.

Enjoy the end of the year. Have a good one. We'll see you in the new year. Never forget the NWA Smokey Mountain Television Championship, Human Rights.