The Press Box - Ep. 238: 'The Masked Man Show' on the Road to WrestleMania featuring Dan St. Germain

Episode Date: January 19, 2017

The Ringer's David Shoemaker and Bleacher Report's Dave Schilling discuss the passing of Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka (02:51) and the United Kingdom Championship Tournament (07:30). Then, "Hollywood" Dan St. Germain calls into the show to discuss his dream 'WrestleMania' lineup (13:31). Lastly, they break down how 'Raw' is setting up the 'Royal Rumble' (30:26). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Masked Man show is brought to you by the Ringer podcast network. With the NFL playoffs in full swing, make sure to check out the Ringer NFL show. Each week, The Ringer's Robert Mays, Kevin Clark, and Danny Kelly, all stand-up guys. Break down everything you need to know about the NFL postseason. You can subscribe to the Ringer NFL show on iTunes by going to iTunes.com slash the Ringer or find it wherever you get podcasts. Welcome to The Maskman Show with Dave Schilling. We're putting your name on the plaque, man.

Yeah, at this point, I feel like... I should be in the title. It's, yeah. Well, just changes the Dave Schilling Show and then in tiny letters with the Mass Man. I'm not mad about that. Dan St. Germain, Hollywood, Dan St. Germain, we'll be calling in shortly with his, uh, WrestleMania fantasy booking, which was so funny, and so good, I had to just get him to call

and to do it. Dan is too busy, uh, writing for a major network sitcom to show up on the show that much anymore. But he's, uh, but he's still part of the family, and we love him. Yeah. I wish he was sitting right next to me right now, and I could just embrace him. Well, I'm sure he would enjoy that. We were just talking about Rick Full. What Royal Rumble was the famous Flair promo?

1992. Flair was so great. Dusty and Flair are just like the yin and yang of the greatest promos of all time. I mean, obviously, you can't. I mean, there's a million other people you'd put in the running. I mean, you know, macho man, all those people. But Terry Funk, got to go with Terry Funk. but Dusty and Flair interacted so much,

and they got to cut all these promos, and they're both so, so good. But what really kills me about Flair is the tear in the eye stuff. It's like, where did that even come from? I mean, it's not like he was like reading that in a magazine or something, and it's just such a slightly off-kilter turn or phrase

that it becomes the most memorable thing ever. Yeah, I don't know. And he did such a great job of after months of that angle being he's a real world champion, and everyone who has been the WWF champion is not legitimate. He's the real deal. And then when he finally wins a WWF title, he acknowledges the significance of the moment.

And just did a great job of selling himself, selling the match, and selling the belt. Yeah, I don't even know. This is Royal Rumble ephemera. I mean, Dusty is a writer's promo and Flair is an actor's promo, if that makes any sense. Because Flair was all body language. And Dusty, like, he,

I mean, he was probably doing him on the fly, but it was like a well-constructed narrative. Oh, man, anyway, we could do a whole show on those two guys. This has been a big week. I was just saying my notes are just like overflowing in my self-text messaging. But the, I guess the big news of the week that we got to start off with is the death of Jimmy Superfly Snooka, which I wrote about on the ringer.com. And it was a really hard one to write. I mean, I don't, there's not, there's no way to really get around it.

my editor you know when we were talking about at the beginning stages he was just like this is like writing Woody Allen's obituary except worse

you know I mean it's it's it's just really tough when I mean it's he's not it's not unique for a pro wrestler to have just these like incredibly dark skeletons in their closet and to also have

given us incredible amounts of joy over the years in some ways you just got to kind of hold those two things separate and you know You can't not acknowledge his passing

And, you know, you can't not acknowledge the, you know, coolness of watching him grow up when you're growing up do all these incredible things. But there's a dark cloud over the whole thing. I mean, I'm not, I'm sure most people here know this, but he was recently charged with, I mean, within the past two years, charged with killing his then-girlfriend in 1983, I believe.

And, you know, it was a rumor that had been around forever. I mean, everyone knew that she had died, but that he was involved, whether or not he was involved, it seems pretty clear that he had a hand in it. And it's just a really, really sad story for her family and that it took so long to get any semblance of justice. And then he was finally ruled incompetent to stand trial. Just, I mean, it was since last summer,

this that part of the case had been going on but um they've been they officially just just tossed the trial out i think like january first or something like that it was not long before he passed yeah because it was just now he you know he wasn't fit there was a lot of i wrote about this in the start of my piece there was a lot of chatter online a lot of indignation justifiable that he was that he had agreed to sign autographs at this russomania that's coming up after being declared in sorry, excuse me, incompetent to stand trial. And, but, you know, that's, that's the thing that I clued in on because that is, as dark as it is, that's sort of like pro wrestling, you know, like in a nutshell that, like,

there's always going to be, like, wrestlers will always show up despite mental incompetence or whatever, you know, that metaphorically connotes to. And there's always going to be people willing to pay money to stand in line and, and, uh, And, you know, it's just, like I said, it's a, it's, it's really hard to, like, hold those two things separate or to not, but it's a... I think we do that every day as wrestling fans, you know? That's it. Yeah, that's the thing, is we do that every time we watch the show, knowing... And in football, too, you know, any sport where there's head trauma, you're trying to enjoy something that could adversely affect people's lives, that there is a lot of, you know, questionable behavior involved with this.

you're trying to enjoy something that could adversely affect people's lives, that there is a lot of questionable behavior involved with this. You know, it's tough. But I think we can still be fans of stuff like wrestling and football and whatnot and still, you know, want it to be better. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I went to great lengths in the piece to not to not, parallel Nancy Argentino's, like, just ridiculous death to CTE, but there is that connection there

because it's part of what, it's the disconnect in between being a fan and being a realist or being, you know, part of the world, the larger world. I mean, listen, this is what got me writing about wrestling was the distance between the superheroes that we grew up, you know, idolizing and the real people that played them and, you know, the self-mutilation they went through, but also just like the not necessarily heroic lives they led. And to me, it's like it's, it's part of what's really compelling, but it's also the hardest thing about being a fan. Yeah.

But anyway, yeah, that happened. And there's not, you know, it's not a, it's hard to talk about it. You know, there's not a right way to talk about it. And it was really a hard piece to write both, you know, emotionally, but also just conceptually. It's a, it's a tough thing as a wrestling fan to grapple with. And it's also tough. I can just turn this light to write and say things like this without using wrestling metaphors because it's always you have to wrestle with something or grapple with something.

Right. I wasn't going to say no pun intended, but I think it was implied. Listen, enough about that. The other thing that happened over the weekend, totally, totally shifting directions, before we get into Raw and Smackdown and the looming Royal Rumble, the other thing is that there was a UK tournament this weekend. and we watched it together. Yeah, and Dan St. Germain, Hollywood Dan St. Germain.

I thought it turned out pretty well. A lot of these guys, you know, clearly still fairly green. But just like the Cruiserweight classic, it's nice to see other styles of wrestling being exhibited that you wouldn't see on Raw or Smackdown every week or even NXT. I really love the Pete Dunn gimmick, the Bruiserweight thing. I thought that was really clever. and he seems just like a legitimate, like, hard-ass kind of guy.

Yeah. The mouthpiece thing just adds another layer of unpleasantness to his look. Yeah. It's funny watching it. I think about, I mean, it seemed like half the guys were at the last PWG show I went to. I mean, we were joking at PWG that they must have just, like, chartered a whole flight for the UK contingent that was there. But yeah, I mean, it was a really cool show.

it definitely had the vibe of a really good indie show in that like there were a lot of guys that you didn't that didn't seem like they were ever going to be like WWMaterial although we would have said that about half the WW roster two years ago but they were all very good at being

wrestlers right and you know you're like you said the style was cool I mean there was a lot of there was a lot to enjoy about it and the tournament the tournament vibe is always just so cool I know I always harp on this stuff but the venue really made the show.

Yeah, the imprits ballroom, which they had used for a takeover London, if I remember correctly, it just looks amazing. It reminds me of when they used to do raw from the Manhattan Center. And it just has a theatrical vibe to it. It has a very intimate feeling and it's historical. It was great. And the crowd was hot for every match. You know, it's someone who doesn't know most of these guys,

because I'm not huge on UK wrestling. It was great to know that the fans knew who they were and they were excited and, you know, there were some surprises. We got Tommy End with his name intact. Oh my gosh. Which was a huge shoemaker markout moment. I'm glad that you were there to see that,

but I was just like, I mean, I lost it, man. I lost it. I mean, there were a lot of cool things. It was cool to see Neville getting a chance to shine there. It was cool to see Finn, Baller, come out and really pop the crowd and have the fans chant Finn Baller and not Prince DeVitt or whatever. I mean, that was that was nice. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, are there any guys, okay, Dan is ready to call in, so we got to do this in just one sec, but the, but the, are there any,

or is there anybody from that tourney who you think is going to have a career in WWB? Or like, could potentially have a career on the main roster. Obviously, the dream here is to have a UK touring show, which could be amazing. We were talking about this when we were watching. If there was just a little, a stable of UK guys, and you can send over some supplemental talent from the raw roster, I mean, even to do a thing where you could let guys take some furloughs there or whatever, you know,

if Cody Rhodes could just go work Europe under the WW banner for a year instead of having to quit. Yeah. To, like, get his juice, get his mojo back. I mean, that, just as an example, that would be great. I mean, you could, even if you, I mean, if guys like Barrett decided to work five shows a year, I mean, bad news, Barrett.

But, yeah, I mean, is there anybody that jumped out at you as a potential as a potential state side star? Besides Pete Dunn, I think maybe what Mark Andrews, the incredibly skinny guy who looks like a potential backstreet boy. I hate him so much, but there's no denying he's got a charisma. He's got that sort of like Jeff Hardy charisma that you just can't really quantify. Yeah. No, he's obviously a pure baby face in the way that he works and the way that he looks because

he seems like he weighs 25 pounds soaking. wet, but he was way over and why not put him in the cruiserweight division? Just toss him in there. I enjoyed Wolfgang. I mean, I enjoy, I like Trent 7. He looked smaller than I, he looked in all like the YouTube matches of his that I've seen smaller height-wise. But I think that he's got a lot of a lot of moxie. And, you know, that Sam Gradwell guy had this, you know, the kind of WWE build, the traditional WWE build. But I'm with you. I don't, I don't, I mean, I'm not, I think Pete Dunn is the star. Tyler Bate was a weird choice, I thought, to put the belt on, but more power to the guy.

He had some great matches in the tournament. Absolutely. It's, it's, I think they're doing it right by using Progress and ICW to kind of run the point for them, build up a fan base for WWE as a regional brand in Europe or in the UK specifically. It worked. And you know what? I got to say, shout out to Michael Cole, who was great. Just fantastic.

He gets a lot of shit for not being as good as JR or whatever. But he was fantastic on this tournament. He did a really, really good time. And, you know, people always say it's, I mean, when people are defending him, his defenders will say he's got a lot of voices in his ear, one in particular, and it's a big job to do. And this one, clearly there were a lot, many fewer voices in his ear. Yeah.

And he did a really, really good job. And Nigel McGuinness, too, who was a great color man. Great to see Nigel. And like you said, Tommy End, who knows if they're going to let him keep his real name? They also name check Chris Hero, who is officially a WWE contract employee right now. Once again, it's cool. I mean, it's cool. I mean, who knows if they're going to keep their names, but it's cool that that continuity is there.

So anyway, that's really cool. Let's get Dan on the phone. and we're going to we're jumping straight to uh to WrestleMania fantasy booking because everything that happened on Ron Smackdown this week was basically careening the the arc towards WrestleMania is in has begun yep we're there we're on the road and Dan was uh Dan while we were watching this Dan was like fantasy booking WrestleMania or didn't you at you were like what's your what's your your WrestleMania card you turned to him and asked him yeah asked him straight up what do you

what would you do? I thought that he was just going to be like, like what I would do if you ask me that is I would just be like, I don't know, like, uh, Dan? Is that David Shoemaker,

the Maskman? It is. And Dave Schilling is here too. Say hi, Dave. Do we have a nickname for you yet? Because I'm going by King of Sadstile. Yeah.

What do you have? We need to get a nickname for you. Are we, yeah. Well, we've officially changed your name from King of Sad Style to Hollywood Dan St. St.

I mean. You are calling in a major network studio. I'm in my office at a major network, guys. I can't believe I even have time for this. Yeah, I frankly can't either. Have you talked to Renee Young today? Are we talking about this on the podcast? No, it's okay, man.

We'll leave that for another episode. This is going to start a serious, serious rumor. Yeah, come on. There's no serious rumors. We followed each other on Twitter. That's it. You guys are blown up my spot. I'm going to get like a double-armed DDT when I go to Orlando.

By the way, if we figured out what's going, we're all going to, have we figured out what's going on there? I'm nervous. I'm going to get there, and I'm going to have to like, like,

I'm not going to be able to get in the shows. I'm going to be hanging out of Epcot all day. Well, you guys are watching the matches. This is actually one of my recurring nightmares that I show up for WrestleMania, and it turns out it's in Tampa instead of Orlando. And I heard.

So anyway, the reason why we were, just talking about the UK tournament. And, you know, Raw and Smackdown this week were all about prepping for, I mean, the Royal Romo's coming up, but they were all prepping for WrestleMania, but we were just telling the story about how Dan turned to you during the UK tournament

and said, what's your, what's your fantasy card for WrestleMania? And in like 45 seconds typing on your phone, you came up with what I thought at the time, and maybe I was just drunk, but it's a bit, it seems like you came up with the best card possible. What, what, could you want, will you, will you run that down for us?

Well, first up, even before I start this card, did I not predict Kurt Engel coming back in some form? Yeah, you did predict that. I will give you credit. I did. I don't know if you get solo credit for that, but you definitely were talking about it. You get a medal just like Kurt Engel. All right, yeah, I'll go into this. And I guess you guys talked about how fun this week in wrestling was, but, and then for, before I start, I should say this, I'm being jumbling on the phone. I've already, I've heard some of the rumors for this mania, and I couldn't be, I

was really excited because I thought that, you know, the card was going to, because they had so much more talent available than last year that the card was going to be. But now I'm hearing the rumors that it's going to be Goldberg and Lesnar headlining and A.J. versus Shane and Roman versus Undertaker. I think the only thing that would be good that would come out of that would be like maybe a John Cena Samoa Joe match or something, you know, because they would have nobody for C. And before I when we say the caveat, this is like realistic, we talked about

all right, we'll see them punk, you know, versus Hulk Hogan. You know, that's not going to happen. So it's got to be within the realm of the W&B universe. So I have Triple H for Seth Rowland, which everyone knows happening. But to sweeten the pie, you have

Stephanie McMahon and Triple H's corner and Rhonda Rousey and Seth Rollins's corner. Okay. All right. I love this one. This was I really marked out to this idea when he told me the first time. This is fantastic. Yeah, I think because everybody's expecting Triple H for Seth Rollins now, and they don't expect that layer.

And I think that they've already, they haven't still, and this is nothing, this isn't to do with Seth Rollins's fault, and that's to do with Booking's fault, but they still haven't, although people love them, they haven't really cemented him as a baby face yet, and having Rhonda there, like, you know, helps that, I think. Sure. I mean, she got a pop last time she showed up.

I mean, her cue rating might be a little bit lower than it was then, but I think overall that that holds up, yeah. Well, you know, well, she'll just be acting, and as we all know, that's her strong suit. Meow, a regular Bruce Flinch over here. Goldberg and what Bruce Wesner, you have to have that. You know, I have mixed feelings, like a fun spot. I say open the show and win the rumble

and have him open the show over his Roman Raines and just have him dominate Raines, similar to, like, Lesner and Sina, and I think people would love it, but he's still, Rains is not going to get over as a baby face. So if you're going to keep him as a baby face like W.D. has been doing.

I have what all us smart marks want to see, which is just a dude who looks like the bad guy from Revenge of the Nerds, beat the shit out of him for a couple minutes. That would be really fun. I'm all in on that. That's great. Yeah, it's great. He's like the most fun thing to watch in wrestling now anyway.

And guys, if you chime in an interrupt in a moment, because none of what I'm saying is at all important. But I want to cross Owens, which we all know has to happen. So, you know, nobody's too. And then here's my idea. You have to get all these. These guys are too big for the Rumble, but they don't have a spot on the card. I know, you know, showing you and I talked about this that every year that the Intercontinental Championship match, two years in a row is starting to get kind of boring. Title Scram.

What you had with, I think they did like the European and I see title. They did the same thing in either WrestleMania 17 or 18 or six. I don't know. Right. But you have Biggie versus Randy Orton, versus Covey Kankton, versus Big Cass, versus the Ms. DeMis, versus Samoa Joe, versus Braywalk. And, yeah, and then you, you know,

I don't know how you would book it, like, who you would have to win. I think it would be interesting to see, you know, you know Samojo maybe get one title Go to Smackdown And then the new day Get the other title And go See I think the key to this

Is that each belt has to stay On its respective show But if you're let's say big cast And you win the Intercontinental title You have to go to Smackdown So the rest The wrestlers move not the titles Exactly

Oh that's interesting It'd be interesting to see like That's way better than what I have It'd be interesting to see like Bray Wyatt win the U.S. title and then realize afterwards that that meant he was like leaving his buddies behind. Right. And then he just surrenders the title and goes back or something. But I think it makes it there's a little bit more intrigue and character motivations become paramount in a situation like that. All right, Dan. No, I think that that's great. You made that booking. We should just be the WV creative

team, us three. Not Shoemaker because he's two on the outside. But me and Schilling. Oh, yeah. We're connected, baby. You've got the mainstream writing credentials that WWE loves. So you're basically in. I interviewed him. I think I bought the interview like eight years ago when I was just a museum security guard. Well, now you can ask Renee Young for some pointers

the next time you interview. All right. Well, you know, let's not get too inside baseball. Again, I could run into these people and my life could be threatened, okay? That's true. And I don't think I would get a job. You know, I interviewed a couple years ago,

and then it was one of those things that was so miserable as a security guard when I had, I interviewed for the job, and then they had, like, an idea that was similar to mine, like, six months later. And that was my idea in hindsight. I was miserably depressed. That's me making good so I can get a job. The main event, I would say, it has to be A.J. This is my main event.

AJ Stiles versus John Cena versus The Undertaker. You can't just have an Undertaker versus Sina match because I don't think Taker can go anymore. We saw that with Shane McMahon, right? And you have to have AJ in the main event because he's earned it all year. He's been the best thing about wrestling. And I know people are sick about AJ versus Sina. So I think this is, and this is the marquiest thing in the world, is that you finally have the John Sina heel turn.

You do it like this. We do the rules. What's the rules where it's like, you know, the rules where it's elimination rules, right? Like a tornado, whatever. Yeah, whatever, yeah, whatever that is. you have either Undertaker or you have Undertaker or a woman at AJ Styles right at the beginning and at the end of it

you do a similar thing that kind of what you had with Austin Brett where Sina doesn't make Undertaker tap out but he still keeps holding it you know he keeps holding it and you know he's going insane because you know people have been cheering AJ in the match people haven't cheer in Undertaker they're not cheering him and then you have AJ make the save

and then Sina beats him up and basically you have a double turn there you have AJ then go full baby face and then you have seen a beat the hell out of both of them and then you have like this new heel and maybe and it's different than like Hogan turning heel or Brett because he almost doesn't even know he's a heel

while he's doing it you know like he still thinks like he doesn't turn on the crowd or anything like that he just keeps he like almost just loses himself in rage you know I'm into it okay all right and then the other one this is why I'm a genius

um you had you have a build, you know, you have this, you have a, this is a, where you have the club comes out and Rusef comes out as their mystery partner. And then Kurt will come out and have angle, pin Rousseff in the middle of the ring. This way, too, you don't have the whole match depending on angle. I'm sure he can still work. This is the difference, too. I'm kind of like sidebarring this for a second, but the difference between Kurt Angle and Goldberg, in my mind, is that when Goldberg came back and he wasn't muscular,

it kind of was a bummer for me. But having Kurt Anil come back and not be muscular, because he still has those, like, deep sunken eyes. It almost looks more badass in a way. Like, he looks almost more dangerous without muscles. Maybe not more dangerous, but he's like a different type of dangerous. Like, now it looks like that wrestling coach that can still beat the shit out of the wrestlers. Yeah.

Well, when he was cutting weight when he was, like, talking about doing the Olympics again back in TNA, and he looked so weird. and yet, yes, so freaking scary. I wouldn't say Goldberg doesn't have muscles, by the way. He said he came back without muscles. Yeah, okay, sure, but he has more muscles than the three of us combined. Yeah, well, thank God Goldberg is known for his tactical wrestling so he can make up on that front.

Oh, wow. You're not scoring points with Renee. I don't know. This is going to be really awkward at WrestleMania. That's okay. I don't want to hang out with the overall. Evolve crew. I don't know. And, yeah, so you have, I was saying in Schilling, you have to have Sasha as the, you know, as the ref versus Bailey versus Charlotte, or you have a triple threat. I think it's got to be a triple threat.

Okay, well, yeah, that's fine. And then Andre, the Giant Battleroom. Now, I guess, I guess, where you have, what you have, maybe a four-way match between a, a, a, a, a, a, a lot. Alexa Bliss, Nikki Bella, Mickey James, and Becky Lynch, you know, as women, I don't know, four corners match. I don't say, I think all of them kind of deserve it, you know, so. That's the hard part about doing a card like this is you have to book so many multi-person matches. It is.

It's really tough because you don't want to leave them off a WrestleMania card because they've done such a good job all year. Like the idea of Ms. not on the WrestleMania card would be so wise. Well, to be clear, I mean, just to reiterate what you said, This is the hard part about like booking the WrestleMania card well. I mean, the, the,

the, the easy way out is just putting everybody in one-on-one or tag team matches and then have the show be six and a half hours long. And I feel like WWE is probably going to go with, with option B. We are almost there. Yes. Is it five right now?

Five hours? It was five last year. Yeah, it was really long. If we do go, we're going to have to do, like, wear diapers, like that lady who went to go,

uh, what, kill her husband. This is the astronaut. We just wet ourselves in a seat. We drive to WrestleMania in diapers. I mean, you got to do what you got to do if you're at WrestleMania. Every second counts.

You know, it's crazy that we're going to have the same WrestleMania experience than that Iron Sheik has. Oh, that's unfortunate. All right. Well, thank you guys. Hey, thanks for calling in, man. We'll let you get back to your highfalutin lifestyle out there. Oh, yeah.

I'm just, like, white and, uh, cars of $100 bills over here. Yeah. Well, try not to tip over with all the money you have in your pocket. Have a good day, Dan. We will talk to you again soon. Oh, yeah. And check out my website, Danceret-Dermain down at D.S. Germain on Twitter.

And I mean, the show I'm writing for comes out next month. Are you glad to talk about it? Yeah, Superior Donuts on CBS. And I think we premiere after the Big Bang Theory on February. second, I believe. That's a sister's birthday. You got the hot lead-in, bro?

It has nothing to do with this. Pretty hot lead-in, pretty hot lead-in. That's amazing. That's why next time you see me in Manny, I'm going to be wearing a monocle and eating doto meat. So, so like if your show fails after the Big Bang Theory lead-in, that's just like a catastrophic failure.

Yeah, David, I guess you can look at it that way. I'm just kidding, man. Thanks for coming on, man. We will talk to you again soon. having me. I really appreciate it. Bye. Thanks to Dan St. Germain. Before we get into our Russellmania talk, a quick word from one of our sponsors,

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All right, Dave. So we don't have a ton of time left, but the two big things I want to talk about are, one, the opening of Raw, which was just a setup for the WrestleMania main event, basically. about before the show started about how it seems sort of like they're projecting that a raw person, one of these raw guys is going to win the Rumble, because on Smackdown, they're talking about the elimination chamber. And on Raw, they're talking about main eventing WrestleMania. Now, maybe that's just because Raw doesn't have the elimination chamber, presumably. Do we know this? Yeah, no, it's a Smackdown-only pay-per-view. Yeah. So, you know, Raw is already angling for that

spot. Now, who knows if that's going to happen? But we had the raw, we had the show opening raw promo and we had we have the elimination set up on SmackDown so we have these two big like meat like just melees of all of the whatever counts as a main adventure these days right so on the raw side

we had Roman Raines Brock Lesner Kevin Owens Chris Jericho Seth Rollins and Braun Stromen got to throw Triple H in there and Sammy Zane I guess is part of this whole thing too is that is that a Is that everybody who might be in the picture?

Yeah, I mean, I think Sammy Zane is sort of on the periphery of that. I wouldn't put him in the, in the Roman reign, Seth Rollins. Sure. You know, I was actually talking to Sean Finacy, the ringer's editor about this just yesterday, that like that three-on-three tag match that closed, the main event at Raw, maybe I was just in the right mood. I always got to say that, but like that felt like, that felt like just the perfect main event. It felt like a, you know, I don't know if it's an attitude era kind of match or whatever,

but it's like all six of those guys matter to varying degrees and they all kind of have different entanglements and it didn't feel like you're giving away a pay-per-view main event but it felt like exactly the right level of gravity for that show and I was I was really into it. Yeah, it's rare that you get a match like that that could seem thrown together. It's just like, well, we just need to get all the guys in a match.

But there was some actual, there was some heft to it. And I think that's partially because We are so close to WrestleMania now. You know, we were talking about this off the air. It's like it's starting to feel like that time of the year, that season where everything becomes important. And the people that are on top, if it's a Sammy Zane or a Kevin Owens or a Ms. When they're doing main event things at this time of the year, it's a sign that those people are trusted and valuable to the company. Yeah.

I guess you can put the Undertaker in this mix too. We don't really know where he's going to go. But let's, like, do you believe that Rollins, Triple H is, like, is a lock? I mean, because I feel like with as much as everything else is up in the air, that does seem like an obvious match you want to have. And the degree to which Ron's has sort of been in a holding pattern over the past few months leaves you to believe that, like, that's the destination. But, I mean, if there's other matches, I mean, if Roman,

if we don't know what Roman Raines is doing yet, like, how do we know, I mean, how do we know that match is going to go off? Wouldn't you just do, you know? I mean, isn't there a way, isn't there a version of this where they just do like, like, Owens and Rollins and Triple H? Or like, Triple H is a referee. And this is terrible fantasy booking. But, like, it seems like there's other options out there, right?

Well, yeah. I mean, when we were talking at the, we were watching the UK tournament, the whole genesis of this WrestleMania fantasy booking thing with Dan was, you know, we were talking and I said, what about Finn Baller? Of course. You don't have any... We didn't even talk about Finn Baller.

Nothing for Finn Baller to be doing. And I could easily see Kevin Owens, Finn Baller for the title or Seth Rollins, Finn Baller for the title. Because he has that claim to the throne. He was never pinned. The whole thing I kept thinking when they were, you know, when Dan was talking,

when Dan was fantasy booking today and Sunday when he was doing it before was that, you know, Roman Raines versus, I guess Roman Reins versus Braun Strowman would be cool. I mean, the belt would help that, but if it's Roman Reins versus The Undertaker or something like that, like it doesn't need the belt.

And Jericho Owens, if that's going to be the match, give that the belt. You know, like there's a... I mean, it's obvious none of these world title matches or the universal title match, because it's not technically a world title, it's a universal title. Those title matches are not going to close the show.

It's going to be Goldberg versus Lesner. So instead of feeling like you need Sina or Rains in the title matches, just give the belts to the feuds that need the rub. That's what the belts are often for is to add an extra slice of legitimacy and gravitas to a match that might not otherwise have it. And Rains versus the Undertaker does not need the belt.

All you have to do is go back to the summer when AJ Stiles versus John Sina was the biggest, hottest program in wrestling. And there was no belt involved at that time. Yeah. No, I think there's a lot of logic to that. But the flip side is, you know, have your

biggest matches be your biggest matches and let the other ones make lemonade, you know, like whatever. So what do you think? So what is your, what is your prediction for WrestleMania or do you want to go ahead and say that Rollins, Triple H is going to be the match? I think it's going to happen. Triple H has to work. Not that he

is being forced to, but you know he's going to want to work a match. Sure. I mean, and I want to see Triple H work. Yeah, I love watching Triple H wrestle. At some point, he will stop being a great wrestler in his, in winter or whatever, but so far, you know, this past few years have been fine by me. Yeah. Kevin Owens, Chris Jericho seems to be pretty much a lot.

I mean, it seems that like that's the direction they're headed for the U.S. title or not. But that's, I mean, definitely, when you give Jericho the title, it seems like you're, like you were saying, trying to give some stakes, trying to give a little bit of oomph to another match. and that seems like the sort of logical conclusion, especially if Rawlins is out of that feud and Reins is moving on to bigger and better things. Sammy Zane will inevitably be in a money-in-the-bank letter match

or something that, you know, well, I mean, maybe he'll get bumped up, I don't know. Maybe it's like, you know, Sammy Zane versus Finn Baller in a match of mutual respect or something like that. Yeah, I would sit and watch that for 30 minutes. Finn would be a great Undertaker opponent. You could bump for the Undertaker at least. Yeah, I mean, he could bump.

I mean, I like Dan's idea of the triple threat, you know, just because it would be nice to have somebody in there like a Sina or like whoever that could literally carry the undertaker around when necessary, but also someone in there who might get more of a shine off of it. That was Meltzer. I think Meltzer tweeted about that this week is that Sina Undertaker is what's, you know, penciled in right now, but there's also this conversation that it might be Undertaker's last match and they want it to mean something for him to lose to somebody a little bit younger.

Man, Finn would be a really cool choice, especially because it would take kind of minimal. You don't really have to integrate Finn back into the ongoing narratives. You just have him, you know, come out as the demon and stare down the Undertaker and, you know, pointed a WrestleMania sign and there you go. It's easy. Yeah. But, I mean, the interesting thing is, you know, we've heard rumors about Raines versus Stroman. They're building up Stroman to feed to reins. There's also been the rumors that what Dan suggested isn't that far off from what, you know, some conversations they'd add.

Who knows if that's true. And both of them have been, have been, have been, you know, rumored to be potential undertaker opponents, too. What's your choice slash feelings on that, on, on? For Rain Stroman? Yeah. I think it would be fine. We have to remember that. It's just a fact of life that Roman Reigns is the chosen one.

Yeah. Fighting against it is fine. You know, people can boo him and whatnot. That's their choice. But it's obvious that they're building this card just like last year and the year before with the express purpose of making him a bigger star. Sure. Everything about the buildup to WrestleMania 31 was about Roman Raines is going to beat Brock Lesnar.

of course they changed their mind the last minute or the last month or whatever for the better I think but that was that was a narrative of that match yeah I'm sure he was supposed to to beat uh brock lesnar in that and then the year after it's him going over triple h they're gonna keep doing this it's going to happen every year better that he's working with bronze stroman and he hulks up and spears him and wins the match hooks up is there oaks up is there is the operative phrase there because this will definitely be a throwback match if that's what it is. And you can find a lot of joy in that. Yeah, that's okay.

If it's a 10 minute match where they have a stare down, they do a test of strength, eventually reigns slam Strowman, can't put him down, uses three Superman punches in a spear and beats him, that's all right.

I would rather him do that than what they're doing at the Rumble where they're kind of dragging down guys like Kevin Owens, not Not in terms of work rate, but in terms of heat. Yeah. You know, Kevin Owens can't really build as a heel. Sorry, totally.

Sidebar. If Owens and Jericho are feuding, who's working a baby face? Oh, it's got to be Chris Jericho. The list is more over than... But everything about his gimmick is so heel. Like, it doesn't translate. Owens can just start receiving cheers. Jericho has to like...

I don't know. I mean, Jericho has to like turn some stuff around, right? Am I crazy? I think Jericho... I think that you're right, by the way. But I think that the, but the, it's, it's more of a direct path to Owen's working baby face. Not that there has to be a baby face, but it. Yeah, I'm a huge proponent of if something is popular, then let that person be the baby face and you don't have to change it.

You don't have to soften the character. Just like Chris Jericho keep being the dude who has a list. Yeah. And people will cheer it. But he's fighting Kevin Owens, who they find despicable, simple. I wish that they would just. They would like drag this out a little bit longer. Let them like, let the feud start at WrestleMania.

Do like Owens and Jericho versus Sammy and Baller or something like that. And then have them break up at WrestleMania. And then the next three months on Raw should just be them trying to find new best friends. So like week one, it's like just some, it's like whatever. It's like Titus O'Neill, who by the way, I'm not quite sure, but might be headed towards a giant breakout. This has been a very interesting few weeks for him. But then, like, it goes on and it goes on. And then maybe, like, at the pay-per-view,

like, Owens is just like, my new best friend, Roman Raines. And then that just, like, you know, can, like, change the status quo. And then the next year at WrestleMania, it's Kevin Owens versus Finn Baller for the title. And Kevin Owens loses. But then who comes out, it's Chris Jericho. And then he puts Chris Jericho on his shoulder, like Miss Elizabeth and the macho man. And it's a beautiful moment. And we all cry.

I was trying to figure out where you're going. with that. That's really good. WrestleMania 7, baby. I think what we decide is it's like the main event picture for, I mean, the WrestleMania picture for Raw is like kind of set and it's like kind of hard to talk around the rumors, but like I hope that there's some more wild cards that are coming our way. We got to we got to jump to Smackdown.

They announced the elimination chambers coming back. Judging by the opening, the show opening promo. I mean, obviously A.J. and Cino will both be in it no matter who wins at the Royal Rumble. Also sort of diminishes the Royal Rumble match, at least the belt wise. Right. Because they're going to be fighting for it again, you know, like five days later or whatever it is. So, AJ, Sina, the Miz, Dean Ambrose.

Is it six people? It's six people in Elimination Chamber, right? Am I just making that up? Six. Yeah. So it's those four. Dolf Ziegler, I got to tell. I'm such an idiot.

I was so confused as to why they were bringing back the king to do this, to do this interview segment that it didn't even occur to me. that it was him and Ziegler and this is what it was going to be. And it was also in Memphis, so that was another big part of it. No, that's what I'm like, I was like, why is the king? Oh, it's in Memphis.

Oh, and then it didn't make the next leap. And so when I was watching it live, I was like a 10-year-old. I was just like, oh, no. Like, it was happening right before my eyes. Yeah. It was really, really great. So I bet they'll put Ziegler in there

because what else is it going to have to do? Then Baron Corbyn, is that your number six? Or is it going to be Shane? Like, what do you, how do you foresee this happening? Well, since Shane is most likely wrestling at WrestleMania. It could not hurt to have him go out and work another match

in the couple months before mania. Elimination chamber, though, it's like the reason you would put him in there is to do a crazy spot. And why give away a crazy? I mean, the thinking may go. Why do a crazy spot there? Well, you have to because they've built up this gimmick as so brutal. They were talking about that on the show on Tuesday.

This is, you know, it's a hellacious structure and, you know, it ruins careers. and that kind of thing. So I think they have to do something to make the stipulation matter. So if we can say Ms. Sina and AJ are definite. Dean Ambrose, would you say that's a definite? Not necessarily because he has the intercontinental title. They might want to have him work a separate program.

I also think that Dolph Ziegler being in the match might be a mistake because he needs to build his character up and he should be working with an Apollo Cruz or someone like that. Yeah. Or he could be feuding. for the IAC title again, I mean, with just a different opponent. Oh, boy. So, so let's just say, let's say Ms.

Okay, so Ms. A.J. and C.N.R. for sure. And then between all the other people we've talked about, including Randy Orton, including Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper. I mean, I kind of feel like they're going to be doing their own thing, but who would you put in? Fantasy book it. Who are your next three? I would put Orton, Luke Harper, and Bray Wyatt in the match. Oh, this is a good idea. Because then they're all going for the belt.

we've already established that their loyalties are being divided. There are factions inside of the faction. And then you either do a baby-faced turn for Luke Harper, a baby-face turn for Randy Orton, or for Bray Wyatt, depending on where they want to go with it. But there's a huge amount of intrigue in that, and then you don't have to send them back to the tag team division. And you don't have to work a triple threat or something like that.

They're just in this. Yeah. I don't, okay. I'm not hating on your fantasy booking at all. We got to get out of here. I know it's been, we're just in a huge hurry today. There's a million more things we could talk about. Is there anything that we're just like glaring things that we're leaving out?

Cage match on Tuesday. I mean, Mickey James is back. I'm out on the escape rule. I think it should be pinfall or submission in a cage. I don't like the- You can't rewrite history. We have decades of cage rule cage matches. I know. It just looks bad on television.

It's contrived as a ladder match, but without the visuals of the ladder. It's just, it's strange. But good for them. I'm glad they put it as the last match. You can't really have that open the show. No. It's got to close the show. And Mickey James,

being a part of this angle is a really great idea. We, yeah, we got a lot of giveaways this week. We had the, I mean, the big matchups, like the women's cage match,

obviously, it was shmazzy finish. But we had that funny, that kind of schmaz. It was like Dusty Rhodes came back from the grave to, no offense, to Cody,

yeah. Yeah, to book that match. And also the tag match on Raw, which had just a straight-up dusty finish, is the, I mean, it was... That was bizarre. Why not just put the belts on the club at this point? Whatever, that's fine.

They're building them up. It's going to be... They're going to get their shot. They knocked them down. They got to build them back up. Listen, we got to get out of here. Thanks to you. Do you want to talk about what you're writing this week?

Oh yeah. I wrote a big feature for Bleach Report for BR MAG about the NBA and the age of Donald Trump and and social activism and all that stuff. there's a lot of great quotes from people like Carmelo Anthony and and JJ Reddick and David West and I think it's going to be a good piece so check that out should be coming out tomorrow because today's Wednesday we didn't get to talk about the who the 12 mystery as of now mystery entrance in the rumble will be but that's fine because it doesn't matter

we can talk about that next week I'm sure I'll be back next week yeah no you're not we're actually not letting you leave the studio you're just going to stay here from that's okay there's plenty of Miller light to drink we got to get out of here Thank you guys for listening. Royal Rumble's just right around the corner, and this is the most exciting day of the wrestling year. Definitely the most exciting season. As always, apologies to Dean Ambrose.

We will see you back here next week, Humanoids.