The Press Box - Ep. 244: Top of the Premier League Table With Chris Ryan and Ryan O'Hanlon

Episode Date: January 26, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Ryan O'Hanlon run through the top four Premier League clubs and discuss Chelsea's recipe for success (5:00), Tottenham’s continuity (12:00), Liverpool's offensive approach (18:00), Man City's stylistic change (24:00), Everton's ownership (29:00), what success looks like in the league (34:00), and the bottom-feeders (40:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The people have spoken, and Jeff Ross has returned for Roast Battle, too. The four-night event features top comedians getting verbally violent until just one is left standing, featuring a star-studded lineup of judges, including Snoop Dog, Sarah Silverman, and Jason Sudakis. This is a battle you don't want to miss. The four-night event begins January 26th at 10-9 Central on Comedy Central, and don't miss the live finale on Sunday, January 29th at 10-9 Central to see who gets crowned king or queen of cruelty. Welcome to the soccer podcast. My name is Chris Ryan.

I am an editor at the ringer.com, and I am joined, as always, by Ryan O'Hanlon. It's great to be back. No pause. Just right in there. Two-footed, just like Granajaka. It's a new year. I don't want to be compared to Granjaja.

He's having a rough week. We'll probably get to that in a little bit. Ryan and I are here to run through the Premier League table. It's been such a busy, busy holiday season, and you're really seeing that all the different competitions that teams are playing in are starting to have their cumulative effect on teams, such as Liverpool,

who all to put our cards on fuel. RIP. Ryan and I both cheer for, but this isn't a Liverpool podcast. It's a Premier League podcast. And let's start at the top of the table with Chelsea, who sort of

won by not losing. They haven't, they keep trucking along. All I do is see them in the Daily Mail going out for great team dinners. Everybody's got like incredible acid wash jeans on. Shout out to you guys.

Costa seems to be back in the fold after rumors that he was going to go off to China for like 150 million euros. I don't even know if you can pay in euros anymore. But like eight points clear, mid-January, late January, I don't really know this is all over about the crying. Yeah, so much would have to change for them to blow this. Right.

They have Liverpool and Arsenal coming up, correct? Yeah, and even if they lose both of those games, I think they're still favorites to win. Right, because they do such a good job beating up on the teams beneath them. Yeah, they, you know, they lost to Tottenham a couple weeks ago, and that sort of seemed like it could be an inflection point in the season, and then they've just haven't lost since. I think their last seven games against the non-top six,

they've scored 16 and conceded two. Gosh. So conceivably, they could not win a game against the rest of the top six and just win out against the rest of the table and still basically trot. to the title because all the other teams, the issue with all of the good teams in the Premier League this year

is that Arsenal or City or Tottenham has to run the table against the top six to be able to catch Chelsea and the chances of that happening are just very low. Even if, say, Liverpool did do that, they would just lose to Bournemouth and Burnley and Swansea apparently since that's their recipe.

We'll get to them in a minute. Chelsea, are you... They have gone through a couple of wobbles. They had the pre-switching to the back three, like, not incredible start. Where even in, you know, allowing for British tabloid journalism alarm, there was odds on Conte not making it to Christmas. Then they switched to the back three when 10 in a row look like World Destroyers. Then they have a slight flare-up with this Costa thing, which of all the positions, I think that they could lose. I don't think they could lose Conte, and I don't think they could lose, I mean, Conte and Golo Conte, not Antonio Conte.

They can't lose him either. But Conte is so important to them. And I think Costa does give their team just like a direction to pull in. And every single attack they have, it's just like he is the focal point. And then Hazard can go do his thing off of that. But am I overrating Costa's importance? No, I don't think so at all. I think one of the big drivers in their success since they change formations, you know,

they just don't give up goals, like ever anymore. And the attack is not. It's not as good as Liverpool's or cities or even Manu or Tottenham, but Costa just every time he shoots, he scores. And like, when you're not giving up goals and you have a striker that hot, like, it's over, basically. And I mean, is he going to, will he cool down as the season goes on, probably? But, like, at this point, they've built up such a lead that they can sort of budget for,

you know, him scoring with every third shot instead of every third shot. instead of every second time. There had been rumors that they were going to be in for Lorette from Swansy, who I've used to adore when he was on Bilbao. I haven't really watched a ton of him since when he was at Juventus, and I think he's bounced around a little bit. Destroyed Liverpool. And he just single-hittedly tore Liverpool to pieces.

So it seems like he still has a little bit to offer, but one thing he does is he's just like a really classic, like, he's in the box. He just like makes things happen. He may not be like, oh, I can start the attack from outside of my own circle, but he is a really good finisher. He does seem like your classy Chelsea player, like the guy of the big body who's just going to knock a ball in with his head or hit it in a rebound.

And he's a guy like, I loved him when he was at Bilbao too. And then now if I picture him on Chelsea, I immediately hate him because he fits the team so well. Let's go through the rest of the top four here, top five, top six, I guess, because we want to talk a little bit more extensively about Everton. But Arsenal, winning games. It's weird.

Yeah, this is another strange second place Arsenal team where it's like they seem so far from Chelsea yet I've somehow managed to get themselves above Tottenham and Liverpool in the table. It's weird because they, you know, City had the amazing start where they like were playing like a form of soccer we'd never seen in the Premier League and then Liverpool after that were kind of on fire

and Tottenham recently have been like Irisaged. But Arsenal have never really had a Like sustained period of super impressive play I guess Which is what makes them being in second seem weird and It's not like they've like been lighting the world on fire recently. I think the other teams around them have just been tripping up and they also Beed west brougham beat Crystal Palace Drew with Bournemouth in a pretty exciting game and and smash Swansea so they're doing what they need to do and and and they're just beating the teams that are far beneath them.

Yeah, and that's the thing, it's so close in the second through six spots that, like, Arsenal getting a PK in the 97th minute is enough to put them in second place rather than fifth. Do you think that there's such a tight margin? Anyone for him to buy? And would anyone, would buying anyone make a difference? Is there a position for Arsenal that is glaring? Yeah, I mean, I think that the Cazorla injuries weirdly hasn't reared its head yet, but I

think it will eventually. And I think they, if they could find a guy that's like as good of a passer, but as good of a ball progressor, basically moving it forward, whether it's dribbling or passing, if they could get a guy to do that, because Jacquesa's just like a sideways passer, essentially in Elmaneis. So a sideways tackler. Yeah, exactly. Shaka did the thing that is just like, he's the guy, like, Rooney used to do this too,

where if Rooney was dropping deep and he got, got the ball taken from him, he would, like, chase a guy all over the field to tackle, you know, and you can always see that player when they kind of get embarrassed a little bit for whatever reasons. That two footer that Shaka put in, they got him red carded, it was like, dude, just like walk it off. Like, you should just

like, it was like watching a guy at a bar fight who's like, he's gonna go, he's gonna go for it, but he really needs to like, just his friends need to walk him out of here right now. It's such a weird, like, you know, he's a guy that you would maybe describe as elegant, like the way he plays because he's tall and like such a,

play his nice passes, but then when he doesn't have the ball, he's like a madman with his head cut off. They may need to ban tackling in the Premier League. I think only three guys can do it. Now when I watch it, it clearly isn't like, they got on Guardiola for saying he doesn't coach tackling, but it doesn't look like anyone's coaching tackling right now. Yeah, well, there's that, like, famous Jabi Alonzo quote where he's like... Like Spurs know how to tackle. That's pretty much in.

Well, Jabby Alonzo's thing is like, if I have to tackle, I've already fucked up. Right. so Jacques is fucking all the time speaking of the best tacklers in the Premier League Tottenham when they are on like when they are playing in the second half

against Man City when they are all healthy and they can bring in sun off the bench or or whatever but like position to position I feel like Tottenham is the strongest team in the league in terms of and I know that Chelsea is just so far and away the best but if you were going to

do a you know a best if you were going to do a home and away championship like for the Premier League, I would probably bet on Tottenham right now. They are a little bit of a hot and cold team and I know that you have some ideas about why they are playing the way they are right now, but when you just look at that team from top to bottom,

it is like a platonic ideal of a soccer team. Yeah, it is. And I think you're right in the sense that they, when they're like hounding you defensively, they're as good as Chelsea are, like at not conditions. conceding goals, if not better. I think they're better than the other two

pressing teams. Liverpool and City, it's like the presses are great, but then they just give up goals as soon as you break through it. And they actually have problems with plan B's. Those teams do. Yeah, exactly. And Tottenham is like at this point, they've switched to a back three and they've been great since

then, and we know that the back four they played with last year works too. So they sort of have two systems that I think can work, which I don't know how many other teams can say that. But then they're also they're shooting more than any team in the Premier League. So combining those two things,

like when they're getting high quality shots combined with the volume of shooting plus that defense, I think you're probably right. They're well balanced, but they're not balanced in a way that prevents them from reaching like a super high height.

Yeah, I mean, Taunum's a team that if they were three, four points closer to Chelsea, I would say, I think they they should try and go by someone really good to help them, maybe a wing attack. Yeah. Because I don't really understand what's going on with Lamella right now. He's like in Rome, nursing and injury.

His dog is ill. I think his dog passed away. I mean, it's just strange. Like that story is odd. He was playing pretty well. Yeah. But one of the things with Tottenham and the way that they play, Arsenal have a pretty notoriously, Venger has like a system, but he's very, like, he's very in favor of players, like,

expressing themselves. And once they understand the principles, like, he's, more style than system, I guess, is the way I would describe it. Tottenham, on the other hand, I feel like everybody on that team, one of the reasons why they're so good is that a bunch of them have been playing together for a while. And they all understand their roles. They all understand where they're supposed to be in relation to one another. They know that when you go, you know, the fullbacks know when to go forward,

the back three knows how to defend. Yeah. So bringing in someone who I'm trying to think of like go by some fast winger from Germany or something or even pick somebody up off of like the Bournemouth pile or something, I just don't know if that would necessarily make a big difference for them at this point. Plus they probably have some kids that's really awesome that I don't even know about. Yeah, it's here where you sort of think about the Musa Sosoko signing they made this summer and just realized that that was a pretty big whiff.

And if they signed someone who was like actually able to contribute, like where would they be? but yeah the thing with their system is that it's it requires a very specific player and to get a specific player in the fitness levels that they want yeah you're gonna be getting like a

B minus version of a player you have and I Tottenham will have fixture pile up with the Europa League so they could maybe use a little more depth but it's interesting that they want on this run after the Champions League exit. Yeah.

Are they still, which domestic cups are they in? F.A. Cup. They're out of the EFL. I mean, they could, the backline, the centerbacks are sort of hurting right now. So I guess you could bring someone in. But, you know, as we've seen, picking centerbacks is like, you know, shooting fish in a barrel. Yeah. Or not shooting fish in barrel.

Whatever the opposite of that is. It's very difficult. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's something that's hard to shoot fish in barrel, actually. Like, he'll bring one in seemingly once per year and that he'll try to. try to get a deal on somebody or whatever, and you just, you know, I don't know, Kishelny and, and what's the, Mustafa.

Mustafa are playing pretty well, but they're not on the level of the totem guys. Let's keep going down through the table here. I want to talk about this group of teams in a brick together, Liverpool City and Man United. United is in sixth, four points behind Liverpool, two behind City, yet probably have more, like, I don't know if you want to call it momentum, but like the narrative around United is that Marino has like saved the season and has everybody loves playing at Manchester United and they're going to go crazy in the transfer market in the summer and you know they're putting making a push for the champions league now whereas the narrative around Liverpool and city where above man united is very much um basically emperor

has no clothes hubris of the manager and now they're actually like you know going to have to come come with some tricks yeah to save their seasons uh what do you think think about these three teams? I think they're like all roughly as good as each other despite the narratives. I think Manu, you know, Marino has saved this season, but he also just like decided to start playing the best attacking player on the team, Henry XMigitarian. Like holding him out of the lineup and then playing him is a way to sort of create a narrative in your favor, but it's also a way to like, there's still.

still kind of far back from the finishing fourth. Like you need a bunch of teams to trip up and you basically can't fuck up at all. And again, with schedule, it's worth mentioning, Man United's sort of Renaissance comes along with beating Sunderland Middlesbrough,

West Ham and the F.A. Cup, Redding, sorry, West Ham, Redding and the F.A. Cup, Hull, and drawing with Liverpool. Yeah. And then drawing with Stoke. So it's like, this is not exactly like Barcelona in 2006. I agree. I mean, it's if anything, like them playing poorly at the beginning of the season,

both from like an analytical underlying number perspective they were doing poorly and from a results perspective also, you know, doing poorly at the beginning of the season now, you know, makes it seem like, okay, everything's fine. Yeah. But like they're, you know, that Marino seems to have lowered sort of the expectations at United in some way. You know, like, now it's like if they finish top four, it's like, that's amazing. But like, you don't buy Pogba and Ibrahimovitch to just finish in the top four. Yes.

Yeah. While with City and Liverpool, I think it's, you know, I think these are two teams that play very sort of high variance styles. And we're seeing the downsides. I think they both, they both press a ton and they both attack in like very aggressive ball dumb. So they're always on the ball and they're always sort of trying to force it toward goal at the same time So it's like balancing directness and Possession dominance so like you have the ball a lot and you're just Going directly toward the opponent opponent's goal like that's a good equation, but when you lose it your defense is sort of

Exposed and they straight up just don't have elite defenders no and I mean the other question is like are how many defenders in the world could actually actually function in these systems and like shore up the defense. Like they're both. If they, if Man City had Tottenham's back three. Yeah. How good would they be? I think they would be better.

Like that that's a one where I'm like confident in saying that those guys could play. Or if they had Chelsea's back three? This system. Yeah. Okay. I mean, David Louise. Yeah, I mean, I guess you never know. What's going to happen with that guy?

But like Liverpool and city, they don't give up a lot of. shots either team but the quality of shots they give up are like as bad as Swansea basically who's the worst defense in the Premier League they are both going through these stretches of of difficulty and I think it's calling a lot of like putting a lot of attention on Klop and Gardeola but for different reasons Klop has Klop has generally engendered a lot of like goodwill around Liverpool and I love him you love him like the players seem to you know would run through a wall for and they are literally running for a wall from them.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this fixture pilot that they had over the holidays where Chelsea didn't have a ton of games comparatively has really like brought Liverpool down a lot. There's a very simple explanation for what's happening with Liverpool is that they were without Coutinio for a while and now they're without Monnet and those are the two best players that they have. And if any team loses their two best players, they would suffer. That being said, I think that Liverpool's failure against teams beneath them is a real

head scratcher. And I don't think it's mental. I think it is tactical to some extent. Yeah, and I mean, part of it is like if a Liverpool's philosophy is predicated on the other team losing the ball and then that presenting like an easy attacking situation for Liverpool. Right. Right. And like playing against a team that doesn't need, doesn't want to have the ball. Yeah, Burnley doesn't want the ball. It's like, what do you do? I don't know if they have this sort of like intricate attacking play to like consistently break that down so it leads to a bunch of you know shots from outside the box they are sort of reminding me of like a couple of some arsenal teams from years to years ago like the fabragas era where I they were just they had a way that they wanted to play

and if that was taken from them it was 50-50 as to whether they'd be able to adjust to the tone of the game yeah and I just remember arsenal being very susceptible to long throwins and and and Route 1 and getting challenged like that. Not in like a physically deficient way, but just in like a tactical way. They just didn't seem to know how to like handle that. And you're seeing that same thing with Liverpool. Like Liverpool's getting bossed around a little bit in the box.

Yeah, it does seem, it's weird. Like in the Manu game, Manu brought on Falani and just started lobbing the ball, like up toward the box. And watching Liverpool try to stop that, it did feel like every time the ball was heading toward the goal like they were vulnerable in a way that like most teams aren't. Right.

And I don't know maybe that's because I'm like a neurotic Liverpool fan, but I think that there's just like the team's just not built. It doesn't really know how to stop that. I mean, it's not like they were getting pounded on by Manu and Manu ultimately needed an offside goal to tie the game. But like it did, there's another world where Manu scores twice, I think. Sure. In that situation.

I think that's sort of the big. issue with Liverpool. Ultimately, things are good at Liverpool. Like, they were projected to come in sixth this season. Now they're projected to finish in the top four, top three.

They haven't really ever settled on a midfield. They've kind of had this rotation. They're basically playing striker by committee. Their best lineup is a buzzsaw up top that goes striker by is Cotino.

Exactly. Moni and Vermino. The thing is, like, you have the team you have, right? And you know that you have those players. So August begins. you're not changing your roster until January, right? So you know that you have to get all of these players.

And you know Mane is going to Africa. Yeah, exactly. But it seems like watching them, especially recently, you know, the biggest issue of them recently, the defensive mistakes are obvious, but like the attack just isn't what it once was. You can deal with two defensive mistakes a game if you're scoring three or four goals a game.

And without Cotino Mane and Roberto Fremino, like the attack just isn't what it is. and they don't have another player like those three to plug in. So I think you need to just accept that you have Daniel Sturridge who's a different kind of player and you play a way to...

And I don't want to make this like a Liverpool podcast but like I do sometimes wonder isn't it a really obvious plan B if you have a healthy Sturge to play a slightly more traditional version of Dortmunds 4,2,31 and have Sturge just playing up top sole lone striker

three attacks, midfielder is Coutinho, however you want to line that up, Milana, and then have a double pivot that's provide some cover for the back four. It just seems like a much more like obvious second lineup. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. I just wish they wasn't always like, oh, we're going to put this guy here. And I think a lot of teams, fans of other teams, I'm sure, watching Mikitara and not play,

like they were probably like crying for that. Like you can understand this isn't just like the bias of like our fandom. Yeah, the thing I think we need to realize is that like the formation, like, the formation you play have to fit the players you have and the style you play has to fit the players you have. Okay, so that is a perfect jumping off point than to city. Yeah. Right? So they are almost, and I really, really, really want the city thing to work out for

Bariola. I don't really care one way or the other about city, but like the, I want his ideas and I want him to be successful in the Premier League and to change, like, to continue to innovate with the game, but I am just mystified by some of the stuff he does. like what like yaya tori as the sole defensive midfielder in a game against Tottenham which I guess sort of was working for a while

the way did Zabaletta play in the double double pivot with Torre that game I can't remember I think it was just Toray with like attacking midfielder's like six attackers yeah but the thing is like this is the thing with City it's like they you can watch their games and it's like

I would say you can say this about almost every game they've played this season. Like, there's a version of that Tottenham game where that Sterling penalty gets called. And Gabriel Jesus is not off-sides, and they win four-two. Uh-huh. And everything's fine. Yes, everything is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that those guys, like,

Claudio Bravo might not be like a Premier League goal goalie, and he's playing keepy-ups while he's getting hounded by Tottenham's front line. Yeah, it's true. You just have to acknowledge the fact that you're going to get your ass pressed If you're playing in Spurs, you guys can't kick 60% hard balls back and forth along the back line. It's crazy. Yeah, I think there's two things to consider here. There's one, like, the idea that Guardiola plays like a difficult probably system for a player to fit into.

And you bring him in, this is Carlo Ancelotti said this in an interview recently. He said if you bring in Guardiola, you bring him in and you force the players to adapt to his system because if you're not playing his system, what's the point of having Gordiola? So he needs time for the players to adapt, right? He deserves that. City, I think, of any team, have undergone the biggest stylistic change from last year to this year. And that's not easy. Like Tottenham in Pachitino's first season, they were kind of terrible.

It took him a while to figure it out. but at the same time you need to know that like there's are going to be difficulties with that if you're Guardiola right and I think he's he's spoken about not really realizing how important like quote second balls are as far as like the ball after a long ball gets played who wins the ball off of the header right because that's what teams in England do when you press against them they just bomb it over your head and then you have to deal with it and that's like in a nice world where everyone's trying to play like good soccer on the ground

you know that doesn't happen but like that's just not where like things are so you have to have a way to deal with that and I don't think city city totally has against Everton which they lost 4-0 on January 15th I saw there was one patch of play like early on where it was just you could see what they were doing they were trying to draw out a team that was

chasing the ball, they were trying to wear them down a little bit, and they were basically trying to carve them up where you'd swing across, you know, they'd go from stones back to Bravo, out to Ottomendi, and across the sort of back line in these kind of complicated passing patterns, and Lecacocco was hounding, and other Everton players were hounding, and I could see what they were trying to do. They were trying to open up a whole side of the field for DeBrona or for Silver or Sterling, so that there would basically be like a secondary counter, like a delayed counter. attack and it would be like the idea was there but the execution was faulty and then there would

just be like once they even there was even one time where they got the the side of the field that they wanted I think it was either cliche or sonya like had the like the run and also had sterling and he made like a pass to sterling who was just across the halfway point and it just like was a bad pass that also bounced off sterling's ankle went out and everton got the ball back and it was and I think I don't think I think everyone might have scored pretty quickly after that they get get singed on the counter. Well, that's the thing that that game,

I think Everton had four shots on goal. And they scored with all four. So there are like 75 different reasons for why that happens. Like maybe part of it is bad luck, right? A small part of it. But then there's also like, could the goalkeeper have done more? Should you, if your city, do you need a goalie that? Can you stop shots?

Yeah. Like a shot stopper. Yeah. You know, the midfield should probably be slowing down in a to make it not as dangerous. The defender should be blocking shots more often. So there's like a bunch of different, a bunch of different things.

But it's city and the same with Liverpool. I don't want to sound like Sam Allerizer, I'm just like he's got to go back to like the basics. But I think what he's doing with fullbacks is brilliant. I love the idea of basically playing like a 416 or whatever the hell he's playing. Yeah. But it's just, I think that you're also starting to see

and we can go into Everton now. There's a degree to which these guys are, some of this team, is just too old to maybe both philosophically adapt to what Gordial was asking them, but I don't even know if they're in good enough shape. And Kuhnman has talked about instituting like basically the Southampton training regimen

in Everton and getting, when he got to Everton, just being very unimpressed by how the guys were playing and what kind of fitness level they were at. Everton looks awesome right now. Like they looked really, really strong against City. And I think they've just been, they're just all of a sudden a very exciting team. There was a fascinating story in The Guardian this week.

If you guys can get a chance to check it out, which was about the sort of murky aspects of Everton's ownership and whether Alisher Usmanoff, who has like a 30% hold a stake in Arsenal, but through various holding companies and investments, you may or may not have a stake in Everton. Not officially, but is, and, you know, a company that Usmanoff owns is sponsoring Everton's new training facility, which is not, like, something that requires,

sponsorship. It's not like a real marketable entity. So it's interesting and they're talking about building a new stadium, but they've got a lot of really good young players and Coom is really doing a good job over there. Yeah, and then they're still in seventh.

And they're probably going to finish in seventh, which is just like it's just I guess the reality for a team like that. But yeah, they're they're like the moves they made this summer

I think both of us probably were kind of like rolling our eyes at some of them Yannick Belasi moves like that they've won four out of their last five yeah and they've been great basically in all of those games the last sort of game

where they were like run off the field they weren't even run off the field but they didn't really have a handle in the Liverpool game in the middle of December when Liverpool scored at the end that they were kind of like on the back foot for the last 70 minutes

but you know the bringing in a guy like Morgan Schneiderland it's like that's we haven't really even seen what kind of effect he'll have on the team which is sort of and Davies who's this kid at like that they've just discovered yeah the 18 year old who looks like he's going to be great

and wears his shingards very low which is the mark of a true hard man but like that's a smart their Erriton is for the most part

seem to be doing the right things for like a team really tough for you to give a credit they're doing the things that like a team in their position

kind of should do to sort of punch above their weight I guess you bring in Komen who like on his day can outmanage anyone in the Premier League probably you sign a guy like Schneiderland who

for reasons unclear is out of favor at one of the big teams but might be like one of the best midfielders in the Premier League, who knows? Schneidling could have helped any of the teams above Manu that Manu United was never going to sell him to. The other thing is he could have helped Manu

probably, which is great. I know you're supposed to call it to Manu. I don't know why. We do it though and we're going to keep doing it. I'm going to say another thing that I was really impressed with something that Everton did and it's the difference between in that middle part of the table it's the difference between Everton and Southampton is Everton Keplakakou.

He's 12 goals this year I mean, could you have made that up somehow maybe but Everton typically does not They bought a lot of strikers over the years That never really worked out It's not easy to Being able to keep your best players matters

And it shows that You're going somewhere and that is For whoever owns Everton Like did it they did a good job to keep Likaku because I think he is like one of the best young strikers in Europe honestly. And especially you talk about the English game, you talk about those second balls and

winning the set like, hounding down a second ball that maybe it was a 50-50. Like he is one of the strongest strikers in the league in terms of like just, what are you going to do with him? He must be like terrifying to play against. Yeah, I mean it's it's like it's bad enough if it's just like

a small like Nat like Shane Long chasing you around on a second ball, but Lukaku just like running at you, getting on the ball in space is just like, I don't even know what you do. Yeah, I would just walk off the field. But the other thing is like,

I guess they kind of probably had to make a decision between keeping Lukaku or stones. Because Everton's just not in a place where they can turn down that sum of money twice, I don't think. And they obviously made the right choice. For now at least. I just, you know, I guess you go back, centerbacks can be really expensive, you know what I mean? And I think when people identify some quality in them, obviously,

Ferguson paid a lot of money for Ferdinand. That was one of the most definitive, and it wound up being one of the definitive buys of that decade for him. Ferdinand and Vittich were like miserable to play against. Yeah. But, you know, you see like, Citi has spent like probably 200 million euros on CERD Max over the last five years, and they basically are still waiting for Vincent Company to come back from

debilitating injuries. Yeah. It's tough, man. I think they made the right decision, too, and I'm sure Stones will get better. Yeah. I think he's playing in a system that asks him to basically relearn how to play the game. Yeah. But, yeah, I agree with you, man.

Like, they made the right choice there. So the question for Everton, I feel like, is with Lukaku going forward, are they going to keep him forever? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe not. Right. but do you kind of like what do you what do you take away from the fact that you're like

the clear seventh best team um does that make you more well like more likely to keep lukaku and try to like get that one year where you make a big jump yeah even if you make the jump it's like then you finish in fifth maybe it's it's a really good question it's the question that sort of faces a couple of these teams in the middle um if you're everton What is success, right? Is it Champions League and a new stadium and, you know, some extra money from playing in Europe or maybe some, like, deep cup runs? What happens if A.C. Milan? I mean, maybe some of the Italian teams aren't right, but, like, what happens if Juventus is, like, we want Kuman next?

You know what I mean? Like, I think that they are in a tough spot because this league turned into a big six. Yeah. And they have, like, a legit shout at. being as good as some of these top six teams and that if they could get some depth and if they can play their cards right like they could really be close

to Champions League football I mean they are if they stay this hot yeah you're right there's still five points behind United yeah they are it's tough and I don't know what the prescription is for Everton I don't know what the prescription is for in a lesser to lesser extent West Bromstoke Southampton West Ham has been so up and down this year

I just don't even know like I feel like one they'll win for two, they'll lose three times in a row, then they'll, like, I don't even know what that seems about. Yeah, I think Everton is, if anything, the most stable of all those teams. I mean, I guess Southampton is stable.

But Southampton's like a perfect example of they sold, like, they didn't keep anybody. So here's the thing. So you're Everton, and you have this team and you're the seven-vest team. You got Barclay of Davies. Yeah, you have Luccaco, Schneiderland. You can make moves that could like maybe

vault you up the table a little bit, but they could also maybe backfire and drop you down the table, I guess. So if they tried to get like a big money, like a 35. Yeah, you tried making like a $35 million signing or something. And then it, it's just like the guy doesn't do anything for you. And then that money wasn't spent elsewhere. People get hurt. Your squads thin and then you drop down the table.

Or do you like do stuff to like consolidate yourself as a seventh best team. Bring in like a couple more like ever. quality players to fill out the team and make sure you keep finishing in seventh and then go from there I think that to some extent and we're seeing this a lot with we we had talked about before with Chelsea and Liverpool's rise being in conjunction with not having European football and Liverpool's fall being in conjunction with being very busy with the FAA cup EFL games and having a really busy Premier League schedule for ever then I think they just need to make a plan yeah do they want European exposure by going into Europe

Europa League but sacrifice probably the ability to get into the Champions League unless they win Europa? That's one option. Do they want to basically punt on all other competitions but the Premier League and target fourth or third and make themselves into a European, like a Champions League team? I think that you

could target that. I don't know how much money there is in playing in the EFL Cup if it means you have more practice time to focus on games. And second of all with Everton I mean like let me look at what they've done this year. in terms of teams beneath them. I think that Everton needs to be one of those teams

that just destroys all the teams beneath them. They can lose to everyone above them, but beneath them they need to basically get three every time. Yeah, I mean, they most recently, their slip-up was what? They tied Hull to two. They drew it Hull. But then they just crushed Southampton,

who is essentially there. And they lost to Watford in December. Yeah. They need to beat Wadford. They need to beat Hull. They need to beat Sunderland. They need to beat Borrow. They need to just beat all those teams.

And then they can just hope for the best against the teams above them. I mean, I guess the other thing to consider is, if you're Everton, I guess, is like last year, if Everton was this good, maybe they finished, like, in the top four. It's impossible to know because you're not going to just translate their win percentage until last year because the teams were worse last year. And so do you, if you're Everton, are you just kind of like, okay, the top six is amazing and these teams are going to stay like this? or are you kind of like, you know, there's a future three years from now where Gordiola flames out, like Marino out, last is welcome, Pocetino goes to Real Madrid, Venger's obviously still coaching Arsenal.

I think you have to, like, do you both, like, do you accept the reality as it is? Like, these teams are just always going to be this good, or do you kind of think, you know, there's a chance that, like, one or two of them have some institutional issues and we can slide in? I think you have to bet on, I think you have to hope for that. And if I think if I were them, I would just bet on or invest in trying to find Suarez coming out of Iax, Alexis Sanchez at, you know, where was he, Sanctoria? Or where did he use? Udnese.

Like, finding the guy who's just about to go up. Yeah. And even if you're only the stepping stone to Barsa or Real or wherever, basically putting yourself in a position where you're getting two prime, pre-prime and prime years of a player who's obviously going to be a superstar. And that's hard because teams like City and Chelsea are,

they'll just have guys on their books and let them sit and, you know, they have obviously access to get people like Gabrielle and Leroy Sane that, but Saneh should be on Everton he would start every game. Yeah, and we talk about this a lot

with other sports, but keeping Lukaku is maybe some like marker for players you want to bring in. I think so. And Lukaku is that, is possible, you could definitely see him playing somewhere else in a couple of years

like on one of the bigger teams in Europe. Yeah. If he keeps it going. Well, Lukaku is just another one of the, he was at Chelsea and they took him from Chelsea. Like that's not a bad approach either. Let's get through the rest of the table before we go here. I want to just, you know, stop me if there's a team

you want to talk about a little bit. Southampton is having one of the seasons where up and down in the league, but if clearly, like they've got a cup run here. I think they'll rise to around right below Everton eventually. So you think they'll jump over West Brom who playing Poolless Ball and Stoke who have all the cool, like, but not cool anymore, European players. It's funny. Yeah, we were excited about all the cool guys they got.

Then they were on Stoke for a year. So then it just washes away all the players. Well, I think it's also like old Stoke always shows its head. I mean, I know Arnitowich is playing well for them, but like I still feel like they play John Walters over Beaulian. John Walters will be there for the next 25 years. That group there, so you think Southampton's going to go up. West Ham, I just have no idea. The Piat thing is really weird.

It sounds like there's a lot of stuff. West Ham fans are just not in a good place. No. At all. I think that they hate their stadium, and I think that's really tough. And I think that there isn't a home field advantage and when it's like literally a home field disadvantage, it's tough. Bournemouth, I'm glad they're in the Premier League.

I hope Eddie Howe gets a big job down the line. Watford, they're, I think Watford is safe. Yeah, I think they'll be fine. They're, like, I like having Watford in the Premier League, because they are always just buying random, like, dudes that you saw playing for Columbia at the World Cup like three years ago. I like that.

That's an interesting approach. Are Lester safe? Yeah, I think so. Just having Marez and Vardi, like, guys that are that good, even though they're not really doing anything this year, it's just like they're better than a lot of these teams. If you want for some stats, their expected goal differential is three,

and their actual goal differential is, or negative three, and their actual is like negative 13. So they're sort of a little unlucky, which is a reversal from last year. So I think they'll be fine. Is Conte worth 150 million euros? Yeah, basically.

Like it's just, there's never been a, clearer example of like a guy leaving the team falls apart and a guy going to a new team and the team like blows up. Yeah, it's just insane. He's going to win the Premier League back-to-back years. It's ridiculous. Of these, this group of team here, I think Lester

and Borough are going to be fine. Swansea Crystal Palace, Hall City and Sunderland are the ones where like... You skipped over our favorite team. Burnley? Yeah. Daish? How's he doing? I'll just repeat the stat that I told to you the other day. Burnley have one point.

the road this entire season. Good one. And somehow they're, like, going to be safe. Burnley should do a Brexit, but just for Burnley? There's just a Burnley League so they don't have to travel. And then Sean Deich can just be like, we're doing this. I'm the Angelotti of the Burning League. Yeah, Burnley, I don't like to watch them play soccer.

Sean Dyche should change his name to, like, something Italian, or start pronouncing his last name, like Dice. Yeah. They should. Allardyce was like, If it was Al-O-D-J, I'd be like managing Inter. I borough, I think is clear. I think Swansea actually just based off that Liverpool performance,

I think if Clement can get them, if you can get 80% of that every time out, like I think they can get out of there. So that leaves Palace, which you would bet on Allardyce because typically he saves teams. A hole, I think, is a lost cause, and especially after losing more players this week. Yeah.

And Sunderland, I just think, are going down. I don't think you can get back out after 15 points. Yeah, it's, I think Sunderland are down. Hull, have actually, like, I feel like every other podcasts we've had, we've talked about how they were, like, the worst team in Premier League history. They've actually been, like, not awful, but they just dug such a big hole for themselves. And Pallas, like, you bring in Allardyce to stabilize things

and get you, you know, a sort of, mediocre level of points to save you. That just hasn't happened at all since he's come to Palace, which is concerning. Swansea, I still, like, I just still have no idea.

It's like the, it's the Liverpool syndrome, but for a bad team, so like they've given up 51 goals this season. So it's like, you can easily picture a world where they somehow lose every game the rest of the season,

despite scoring in every game too. I think I would, if I had to pick my bottom three right now, I would go with whole Sunderland and Swansea. Okay, I like that. I don't want to get too far ahead

and projections and stuff like that. If I had to ask you right now, we'll obviously do another one of these before this, but who are the top four at the end of the year? Chelsea, first, city, second. Wow. Liverpool, third, Tottenham, fourth.

Okay. I think Chelsea Tottenham, Arsenal Liverpool. Your inner Arsenal fan reveals itself. It's always a pleasure. We'll be back in a couple weeks to talk more about the Premier League. Until then, take care.