The Press Box - Ep. 249: 'The Masked Man Show' on Rebooting 'WrestleMania'

Episode Date: February 2, 2017

The Ringer's David Shoemaker and Bleacher Report's Dave Schilling team up to discuss the injury Seth Rollins suffered at the hands of Samoa Joe (01:00), the role of Triple H in the WWE Universe (07:15), how they would improve 'WrestleMania' (22:00), Randy Orton's 'Royal Rumble' win (33:15), and the rumored matches for 'FastLane' (37:10). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my name is Chris Ryan. My name's Andy Greenwald. And we are the co-host of The Watch, a pop culture podcast on the Ringer podcast network. We are on Mondays and Thursdays. We mostly talk about TV, movies, music, pop culture, Jeremy Renner, House Flipping, The Papacy, Reese Weatherspoon dancing at wedding videos. We used to talk about Kanye West.

He's in the, like, timeout corner right now. Never ever talk about Christine Bransky. You can listen to The Watch on Mondays and Thursdays on SoundCloud, iTunes. Anywhere you get podcasts, subscribe now. And thanks for listening. It's a good hang. To the Mask Man show, two in one week. Back with Dave showing.

It's good to be back. It's like you never left. I've been here this whole time. It's crazy. If we had watched all of the WWE's new programming, we could have just stayed here the whole time. So let's just get right into it. The biggest news of the week is, well, I think there were,

it was a shocking appearance made by two major heels, wrestling heels this week. One was Samoa Joe debuting from the next. T and two is Dr. James Andrews, who Seth Rollins is paying a visit to right now. Definitely the number one villain in all of professional sports and pro wrestling. Unbelievable of this happened, and at the worst possible time, as soon as Seth Rollins is getting ready to do his big program with Triple H, he goes down with the same injury.

We should say, as we're discussing this, that it's 1 o'clock West Coast time on Wednesday, and we're operating, obviously, with very, you know, incomplete. information here. WWE is doing their best to make this feel like a work. I mean, and that's not to say they're trying to they're doing anything wrong. This is 2017, you know, I mean, it's

WW.W.com is reporting on the knee injury, which is not a thing that would necessarily would have happened a couple years ago. Samoa Joe is just, is just working like a mother on Twitter right now. I mean, just healing it up as best he can. As he should.

You know, this is his operas. opportunity to get over on the main roster. It wasn't his fault. It looked like a freak accident where his legs just kind of got caught between each or top of each other. So I think he's doing the right thing and trying to get heat for it. Every Seth Rollins fan in the country is going to just hate his guts. Yeah.

I mean, what a way to get yourself over as a heel when people were wanting to cheer you. Yeah, I mean, I guess if you haven't, if you're listening to this and you're just trying to figure out if it's real, if it's fake or what happened. I mean, the only thing I can tell you is to go back to that footage of Joe's attack on Seth at the end of Raw and watch when Joe takes him down under the cocaine in a clutch. Because that was one of those like offensive linemen getting like the quarterback rolls their leg sort of situation. Like it was it was quick, but that's the moment, you know. All we can hope for is that he gets better in time for WrestleMania. He's got 64 days or something like that.

to heal up, and hopefully it's not that bad. Yeah, there's two versions of this. I mean, one is major reconstructive knee surgery, and that's not even a possibility, and the other one's, you know, like, you know, if it's just a tweak, he can work a match. People have worked through worse.

Now, worst case scenario, I was just texting with my buddy, Zach Linder, about trying to figure out if there's a precedent for if this is another reconstructive surgery. Obviously, Austin had both knees. Ray Mysterio had both. had both knees. Triple H was,

did he get to the double knee brace at some point? But he didn't blow out two knees. I think he just went single brace. Yeah. The big thing was a quad tear. The quad tear was huge. Yeah.

I mean, Austin got to a point where I was the biggest Austin mark in the world, but I was distracted by just the amount of knee brace that was coming into the ring on a semi-regular basis. And he started wearing the ones that were white,

so it was really noticeable. They were heavy. It looked bad for him, but we got a lot of great years out of him. We got to get a doctor in here. Is it possible that Rollins could work with like a tweaked MC? I mean, you remember like what was the, it wasn't any given Wednesday? I mean, what was the, what movie did they, was it? What football, what football movie was it where the guy worked on a, on a, on it with a blown out knee?

Was it the one with Keanu Reeves? No, I don't think. So, what was that called? Come on, Marks. What was that called? Our producer, Jim, is saying this is a point break thing. No, it was Friday Night Lights, the original movie. It was the movie Friday Night Lights when they made Smash or whatever play with the, like,

he had, he, like, tore his ACL, and they just, like, giving pain killers and said, don't cut sideways or something like that. You know, like, you can, you have mobility. Anyone that's torn their ACL or MCL in real life knows that it's terrible, but it's not, you're not in a wheelchair for nine months. That's just if you're a pro athlete that you, like, you, you like, you. can't do a lot of the stuff you can do. Yeah, I think that's the big problem with expecting him to work, WrestleMania, no matter what this is, if he has some mobility,

he still is not going to be able to do the explosive moves that he's most known for. Yeah. So even if he takes two months off. His explosive move, you know, his explosive move, like, quantity is gone down a lot since his last surgery. It's been, you know, we, I feel bad, kind of like knocking him for his ring style since then if he was working kind of even with a little bit of a

you know lingering issue um let's just back up one second the royal rumble happened on sunday we recorded a i mean we we did a pre-show and a post show here in the ringer studios um the post show is available maybe both parts are available as a podcast on this very feed if you want to hear our hot takes right afterwards go listen to that right now we'll hit a lot of it but i don't think we're going to do a match-by-match breakdown um but the backs just a back up two inches from where we started. I was watching Ron Monday night, and I was watching it on Sling TV,

so I could catch the East Coast feet. I hadn't slept the night before, because I just have sometimes I have sleep, you know, insomnia issues, and I was dead tired, just trying to catch the early showing, and my feed cut out at like 805 with Triple H cutting a promo,

and I was just like, it didn't even occur to me to go look at it until the next day to see what I had missed because I was just like, AAA is going to cut a promo, and I'll just like read the recap and I'll just catch up on it later.

And then I got like a couple of texts about Samoa Joe, and I was just like, yeah, I mean, I like Samoa Joe too. You know, I didn't immediately get that he had appeared. When I finally saw it, I couldn't have been more excited. But for me, the window between

marking out for Samoa Joe and hearing this, Rollins might have really injured himself in that segment was vanishingly small. Like, I didn't get it. But Samojo comes out as Triple H's hired muscle. Storyline-wise, I'm all in on this. I love that Seth, we talked about this a little bit on Sunday, but I love that Seth showed up at, at NXT, effectively breaking the, you know, unofficial fourth wall of Triple H being

two discrete characters. You know, he's the raw management heel and the baby-faced godfather of NXT. Seth broke down that barrier, showed up, which I think I had said something about on the show before. And then the angle, did the angle totally get skipped on Sunday?

Was there anything about, did he make any appearance on the Rumble? So during the pre-show, it was announced that Stephanie had banned him from here, which I found out after the fact because, like a fool, I said on our show, why didn't they just say they banned him from the arena, but we didn't watch the show.

Listen, this is what you get when you try to record live content during the... I mean, it's... We should go on before the pre-show, but then we would be going on at like noon. Yeah, I don't want to do that. We were here for like eight hours. Yeah.

But anyway, so then on Monday night, Seth comes out, cuts up basically a heel promo. We were joking about this. He threatened his children. That was so crazy. The only defense of this is that Seth never turned baby face. I mean, there's not, the only evidence we have that Seth is a baby face is that he was feuding with Rowland. I mean, with Owens, who was probably moreover as a baby face than he.

And stopped insulting the crowd. That was about it. Yeah, I guess that's true. But so Rollins cuts a Zubriot promo. Then Triple H finally comes out at the end. I'm a big mark for the constant cars rolling up in the back reveal. I mean, that's, it's so silly, but it's. gets me every time.

And we got to see it every week back in the attitude era days and they just stopped doing it. So you're right, it's a nice little touch that they bring back. Yeah, it's really nice. Especially when like the cameraman for like no discernible reason except to help with the suspense, they start with the feet. You know? Oh, yeah. That was a great old Vince thing. They're tilting up.

You would only know it by his striped socks that it was actually Vince getting out of the limo. But yeah, or the, you know, the expensive cuff work on his slacks. But so Triple H finally comes back, comes out, and cuts a really solid promo. I'm always happy to hear Triple H talk. But like I said, he lulls you into complacency because we have seen our fair share of never-ending Triple H monologues. Oh, yeah. You don't know when that thing is going to just wrap up because he finds a way to go on digressions and eventually pull it all back together. Yeah.

But, yeah, I had the whole thing spoiled because. I got an app notification telling me, Samoa Joe appeared on Raw and I didn't attack Seth Rawlins. That's why I have you app notifications. I need to just get rid of my phone during Raw. Yeah. They should just, your iPhone should come with a K-Fabe setting. Yeah.

The, but so Samoa Joe runs out, beats the crap out of Seth in both storyline terms, and it turns out in, you know, in shoot terms. but it was a really cool segment. Taking the injury aside, setting the injury aside, I knew that, I knew that, I knew that Joe was like about to get called up and was surprised that he wasn't there on Sunday, though I heard that he was, you know, backstage mingling with the crew,

I mean, with the rest of the wrestlers. And, yeah, so when he showed up, it was, I mean, I didn't, I didn't expect it. I mean, obviously I didn't even check till the next day. It was really, really good. But I love the overall, not only is, I love the overall angle. And maybe they'll just keep it subtle. I hope they do. But that one, Triple H is now one character.

The NXT thing and the raw character are the same one. And two, so far he's, he helped Kevin Owens, and now he's being backed up by Samoa Joe. And the storyline, whether or not they come right out and say it, is that the guys that Triple H is recruiting are his guys. right? Yeah, yeah. And Rollins has the gumption just to like turn his back on that. But, you know.

This is the way they should have done the whole nexus angle. His Triple H is in charge of it because we know he's in charge of NxtT. So why doesn't he front all of the young guys who are coming trying to take over the company? Yeah. Well, I mean, in some sense,

this could work out as like the best old school, like territory angle ever where he's like, you know, he's the mass of the South Jimmy Hart and everything goes back to Memphis for me, obviously. But say he's Jimmy Hart, Memphis, and he can just bring up your new, like, top heel of the month. You know?

I mean, it can go on forever. Just like, here's another guy I found. Here's another guy that only has a job because of me. He never has to wrestle anymore. Yeah. Not that I don't want to see him wrestle, but it's clear that he's backing away from the ring and trying to focus more on developing NxtE

and developing the business outside of America. So why not turn him into just a pure mouthpiece? Well, I'll make one minor, one more Memphis, one more Memphis reminiscence, because everybody's dying for him. My least favorite manager, and I think this was in Memphis, it was also the NWA, but my least favorite manager was Colonel Robert Parker. Oh, yeah, he's awful. And not just because he was like doing the crazy racist Southerner routine or whatever, but because he was like he's legit like six, seven.

And he was thin, but he was, he was half a head, he was a full head taller than all of his monster, like everybody he would bring in. I mean, there's a reason why Jimmy Hart works, you know. There's a reason why even Bobby Heenan, who was a worker for a bit, but like, you know, he's a small guy compared to most of the people in his stable. The problem, my problem with Triple H is going to be that like literally everybody he's recruited, except for, I mean, did he recruits his own?

I mean, like, there might be like two people who are taller than him. And everybody else is like significantly smaller than him. Well, I think the reason why it could work is because Triple H mentioned this in his promo. He's trying as a character to not be a physical combatant anymore. So there's at least a K-Fabe reason for him not getting involved, even though guys like Samoa Joe and Kevin Owens are smaller than him or less cut than him. Yeah.

Yeah, they had, was it during the Rumble where they had like a, they were doing, I think they were doing one of the mania flashbacks, maybe it was during the Raw, and they had Triple H's whole workout routine leading up to WrestleMania. Oh, yeah. And I was just like, dude, this is the most physically impressive guy on the roster. It's ridiculous, and he still looks gigantic. Yeah.

Anyway, so much happened at the Rumble. Randy Orton's our Rumble winner. We have an elimination chamber coming up. We have Fast Lane coming up. Everything can be thrown in disarray. They're really throwing the, you know, everything, all the booking for WrestleMania is clear as of, you know, 11.05 p.m. on Sunday night on Rumble night out the window. But all of this is swirling in a way that makes us have to talk about WrestleMania. I mean, this is the question that everybody's asking. When we did our post show, we were asking, you know, where does Roman Raines go from here? Because he seemed to have beef with both Undertaker and Bronzhroman.

Randy Orton, I think we all jumped immediately to Bray Wyatt wins the Elimination Chamber and then that feud becomes about the title at WrestleMania. But a lot of other people I talked to, especially casual fans, did not make that leap. Everybody was assuming it's Sina Orton at WrestleMania. Now, Seth Rollins and Triple H, that was the only thing that looked like a done deal. I mean, one of the few things. and now that's up in the year. But let's try to go through this WrestleMania card

and talk about how we've gotten to, I mean, how we've gotten to where we are and where we think we're going to go. I think I will mount a defense for Orton Sina at WrestleMania, which is, first of all, anybody listening to this was going to complain about whatever matches Orton and Sina we're in. So just pause on that for one second. But if Sina is getting close to retirement

or a formally reduced role. You know, like if every year is going to be like 2016 for Sina's schedule, you know, if there's some way to, like, have Orton grab the title first or just, I don't know that the 17th title reign is necessary for WrestleMania,

but to give him one big sort of career-defining farewell, not a full farewell, but just sort of like, thank you to John Sina, Orton is the right guy for him to be fighting. I mean, they are the career rivals of this generation, right? I mean, that are still around, but, yeah, I mean, that's them, wouldn't you say? Oh, yeah, definitely. I think they're inexorably linked because of when they came in,

the time when they came up when they hit the main event. Other than Batista, I think there's nobody else that really could work with Sina or with Orton in that fashion. but they're doing the match next week on SmackDown. They're doing Sina versus Wharton next week. So if they're going to do that match for free on TV next week, I think there's no way they're doing it at WrestleMania. I think that puts that whole notion to bed completely. Wait, they're doing it.

I totally miss this on Smackdown last time. This is what happens when I stopped paying attention. They announced it on Talking Smack, I believe. Oh, see, that must have been my problem. Yeah, so that's off the table. Wait, they're doing the title match? No, what do they do? It's a match.

Regardless, I think it makes it seem less appealing if you're going to do it on free TV, even if the title's not the line. Yeah, I mean, that's just got to be the most, the clearest indication that that's not going to be the, it's not going to be the WrestleMania main event. Sorry, I'm laughing because I just Googled Cina Orton to see if I'd to pull up the news story, and the first thing that came up was a www.com video feature

that's every, the title is literally every John Cena versus Randy Orton match ever. Yeah, it's like they're trolling us saying, oh, we know you've seen it a million times. Don't worry, this is not going to happen. This is not your WrestleMania main event. Yeah. Well, that's really, that's strange.

So what is your prediction? Do you think, so, okay, one thing that happened on Tuesday night that needs to be mentioned is the elimination chamber was formally announced. We have, it's not Orton, because he has the title shot, which is, you know, the right move. But it's, uh, Sina. Wait, let me make sure I get this right.

Baron Corbyn, John Sina, A.J. Stiles, Dean Ambrose, The Miz, and Bray Wyatt. That's it. SmackDown is a very white brand. Wrestling is very white. I don't know if you've noticed, Shoemaker. But I would say that everyone has a chance to win this match,

hypothetically speaking, except Dean Ambrose. Just because he's already got the belt. You got the icy belt. Yeah. I think at this point the argument for the MIS is getting a little bit weak. Not that he doesn't deserve it. Not that you couldn't see that. But it's like if they're going to be building him to holding the title at Manny,

that we need to be putting the gas on last night. I mean, that, yeah. Baron Corbyn, I think, is very unlikely. Yeah, but, I mean, Vince McMahon has been known to do stranger things, like putting the belt on diesel at a house show. I mean, I joked in my fantasy booking the Rumble column where I fantasy booked every person on the roster, basically into the main event of WrestleMania,

that the road for, the road for, and we talked about this a little bit last week, I think, the roads to the main event of WrestleMania for Baron Corbyn and Big Cass are basically the same, which is just somebody gets hurt, and Vince McMahon says, put a rocket on the big guy. Yep. Big Cass might be getting fitted for a rocket as we speak.

Oh, God. No. Not that I don't love Big Cass, but it's not time. No. No. But Baron Corbin, I think, I mean, I think that we're going to see Corbyn versus Zambrose, but there have been rumors about Corbyn. What were the rumors that came out this week about Corbyn?

Oh, I've just seen the Ambrose stuff, I'm not sure. I think there was a fleeting maybe Corbyn, like Sina puts Corbyn over at WrestleMania. Oh, interesting. I think that got shot down by Meltzer or somebody. Yeah, well, his new thing is, and spoiler alert, if you don't want to know, John Cena, Nikki Bella, versus the Ms. and Maurice in a mixed tag, and Nikki's retiring after that match.

Like, or is this, like, the go out in your back thing? Like, is she just going to let Maurice, like, just demolish her with a judge? chair or something? I don't know. I mean, if she's going to go out, she should go out losing to Alexa Bliss, in my opinion, but I mean, I'm not Vince McMahon. I don't have any concept of what John Sina and Nikki Bella's relationship is like. I certainly don't. You don't watch Total Bellas? Well, that, I was going to say, my only frame of reference is Total Bellas. Sure. It's, if I, like, if this were of Total Bellas podcast and I could get really sassy about the relationship choices that people make.

It's an odd move to retire when you're dating John Cena. Although I guess if he's going to be taking a lot of time off too, it's kind of six of one, half a dozen or another of another. But the total be, I mean, my total bella seems like she's always insecure about their relationship and now the movie's just like not travel with him. It's funny that you bring up just being a Total Bella's podcast because Dan St. Germain texts me all the time saying, why don't we talk about Total Bellas on the show? Are you being serious?

No. But what if? I think Total Bell is incredibly interesting, and it's fun. I mean, I know a lot of people that watch it and get a lot of enjoyment out of it. My interest is like, you know, like every season. I feel like there's just like a very high-brow essay to write about the new era of K-Faid, but I just sort of have already written it. So anyway.

I feel like they're definitely working us on some level on those shows. But, I mean, who knows? The rumors about AJ Stiles versus Shane McMahon persist Well, I mean, he's got nobody else to work with There's not another baby face. So this John Cena-Miss mixed tag match Which is like, I just can't I just can't

Doesn't the Ms. O. John Cena pin at WrestleMania? I mean, do the job. Yes, that's true. But does like, can Marie still work? Could she ever work? I need to go back and do like Marie's deep dive. I loved her. I mean, she was like my favorite diva, I guess, at the time when she was out there.

But I don't remember if she was good. For the purposes of what they have to do, I'm sure she'll be just fine. She can take a bomb. But that's just it. It's like in the era of the women's revolution. Like, we're just going to put some people out there and just like a role of like just do what you have to do. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think so.

I mean, that's Shaq's job at wrestling. That doesn't need to be like, we have enough talented women on the roster that they don't need to be in mixed tag matches. Although Raw had a really weirdo mixed tag match too. All those women aren't dating John Sina So there's the difference I'm not knocking Nikki man Nicky's good I just like it's just a

It's a Nicky deserves a spot But Marisa's you know Marisa's had an all star year Not getting in the ring I guess it's fine I mean whatever That's fine I should I think for John Sina and the Mizz too

Like they should be having Both of them should be getting 20 minute matches I know But the card is as big as it can get at this point Unless you want to start having a two day WrestleMania which shout out to my little brother Who's as big of a mark if not bigger than me, who said,

why don't they just do two days? I agree. Just do NXC on Friday. Do the Hall of Fame between matches? Yeah, but then... I would much rather. The Hall of Fame, the Hall of Fame is like, you know, the Hall of Fame would be like a

Nikki Bella Marisse Iron Woman match that was scheduled for six hours. Like, it was, like, the Hall of Fame is not fun. Yeah, no, I 100% agree. I think the only problem is one night and the other night are going, to be different in terms of quality? Are you going to be able to say they're equal?

Because, I mean, Coachella does the exact same lineup. Aren't she just too? Yeah, I guess it's true. I mean, I was like, oh, you're on night two of WrestleMania. That means you're being buried. You do the PWG thing where it's like you all, everybody kind of knows that like Friday is going to be less than Saturday, but also like the winner of Friday has to wrestle on Saturday.

You know, it's a, it's a, there's a way to do it if you did like an arena show one night and a stadium show the other night. But then you're not going to be able to run that. town for Raw as well and Smackdown the next night. That's basically a whole week of wrestling. Why don't they just do what they did for WrestleMania? Was it WrestleMania 2 where they did it in three cities, right? Yeah, but that's still, the show's going to be still too long.

Couldn't you just do like- Also, WrestleMania 2 sucked? Couldn't you just do two? I love WrestleMania too, one of my favorites. Couldn't you just get two football stadiums and have half of the matches in each one and have them go on in exactly the same time? Or like just alternating matches for like 10 hours? This is what you do.

Bring back the war games. Two rings. And you've got two matches going on at the same time. All right. Okay. That's a little bit hard to keep track of. How about this? It's like war games except there's a giant curtain in the middle of the arena.

And each half of each, the crowd can only see one thing. And instead of like the, like the, whatever, the, the, the, the, the, Kendo stick on a pole, you're just trying to get into the other. You're trying to tear down the curtain. And then once the curtains down, like, it's the main. event, the people that are left are fighting for everyone. Here's what you do with that is then you do it like Disneyland and California Adventure. If you want to see, if you want to be able to go back and forth, you pay extra? You pay extra.

That's not a bad idea. Oh, man, Vince, call me up, man, I'm ready. So, this is crazy. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. There's just too many matches. Oh, it's true. I don't have too much talent and not enough time to get everybody into singles matches. I think everybody who listens to this show, and I think both of us, I know I do, prefer singles matches.

I don't like the big schmazzy intercontinental title matches, the Andre. Those are times for me to kind of check out because there's not the drama that there is when there's a singles match. I know. I've said this over and over again. In real life, I assume I've said it over and over again on this podcast. But in the modern era, I get the booking for the – I get the popcorn match booking. What Russellmania was it that? It was like four years ago, five years ago,

when Brodus Clay, the Funkasaurus, when like his dancing gimmick was really over, and they just had a big dance routine as like the second to last thing or the third to last thing, and they cut a match so that they could have that. And it was, when you're there live, it's nice to see, you know,

it does still function as a sort of popcorn match, but when you're viewing it home and with however many million subscribers the network there are, that's got to be your target audience. You know, you've got to pop the crowd, but when you're sitting at home, the promo packages for each match, those are your popcorn matches. You know, maybe change the tenor of those if you're worried about the ups and downs or whatever. But, like, we don't need any more waiting, you know, especially when every entrance for, like, the second half of the show is 10 minutes long, when there's an epic stare down for the first five minutes of every match.

You know, like, there's enough opportunity for us to, like, catch our breath. Yeah, I mean, that Triple H entrance last year where Stephanie McMahon basically read some sort of epic Beowulf-esque poem before Triple H came out, there is a lot of time that could be, you know, lopped off of that show. But I think our point was simply just there's a better use of John Cena and the Miz at WrestleMania. Yeah, all of which goes to say. So if that happens, A.J. Seals versus Shane, which is fine. We were talking about this on Sunday. It's, you know, we're all going to groan about it for AJ's, for AJ's sake. But the only person to get a bigger pop than AJ at his rumble last year was Shane.

I mean, you know. Oh, it's true. Yeah. And let's look at the bright side. In Vince McMahon's mind, a match against Shane McMahon is bigger than the universal title match. I mean, it's not, that's a shoot, man. I think that if he's going over to Shane McMahon at WrestleMania and they have a crazy match and there's a big high spot,

people are going to remember that match. Are we, I think I know the answer to this, as I ask, but in 2017, there's a lot more real, like, WWE front office stuff on screen than there has been in decades past, and even years past. Are we, do you think we're past a point

where a wrestler can wrestle for control of a show? Yes. I mean, they killed Vince McMahon and brought him back to life. They gave Donald Trump control of raw. There's been so much back and forth with how the companies are being, the brands and the shows are being run that it feels so fake now. Yeah.

We know Triple H is a part of the company on a front office level. We know Stephanie is. We know Shane is not. There's no way you can work us unless you make the work so. indistinguishable from the shoot that you don't have, you know, other characters getting involved. I mean, I guess you could do a thing where, like, AJ Styles gets creative control for one, for a month or something like that. Yeah, you can't, he's not going to get an ownership stake in the company, but he was just like, I'm the Booker or something. You know, maybe he doesn't go all the way to Booker, man, but, like, he gets there.

Well, yeah, I mean, we can't, we can't have a repeat of when Donald Trump bought Raw and the stock went down. Or when Rick Flair bought Raw, imagine all that gimmick would go over now. Yeah, can you imagine all the people like, oh, Rick Flair just lost $50 million just gambling? If Rick Flair bought Raw, then I think like high spots would sue for a part ownership. Okay, so Bray Wyatt, I mean, they could conceivably keep the Wyatt Orton thing on the, you know, they could slow burn that for another few months. You know, just because people or partners doesn't mean they're going to be feuding at WrestleMania. although Bray winning the Elimination Chamber, I think, would, you know, make that pretty clear. Oh, yeah.

But, you know, there's this Luke Harper stuff is still floating around. By the way, I think I did not actually go, I did not actually look through the entire roster page, but I think everybody that wears denim, everybody that wears jeans is now a baby face. So it's Stone Cold Seavoss and laid down the ground rules, and now it's come to fruition. Luke Harper is a baby face. He's a weird one, but he's great. He's very over. I mean, I jokingly tweeted on Sunday night after Braun Strowman interfered in the universal title match that he's the most over wrestler since Frank Gotts or something.

But he's like, he's a baby face now, basically. I mean, I know we use these terms. I use these terms loosely. I understand. I've written in an argument for like we are in an era where these things don't matter. They don't matter in terms of like every heel doesn't need to spit on old ladies, you know, and every baby. he says it need to, like, give their sunglasses to a kid in the front row. But for the purpose of booking a match,

like the entering psychology of a match, that stuff still matters, you know? Oh, yeah, definitely. How, who's running the match? You know, one of the best things about AJ Stiles becoming a heel is now AJ Stiles gets to call the spots and run the match. Yeah. So I'm going to, I'm going to advocate for Corbyn versus Ambrose.

even though it's not going to be the best WrestleMania match of all time. Corbin had, Corbin doesn't wear jeans in the ring, but he was wearing some serious skinny jeans on Tuesday night. But yeah, I mean, so, I mean, they kind of teased that a few weeks ago.

Who knows if that will happen? But if the rumors that we've heard are true, then that accounts for everybody at the top of Smackdown, right? Sina versus Miz in the mixed tag, Bray versus Dorton, AJ versus Shane and Dean versus Baron Corbyn, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think the only, the challenge is going to be on the raw side because there are a lot of, not a lot, but there are names like Finn Baller. Finn's probably going to be back in time for WrestleMania, unless they just decide to hold him. But I don't think he's going to want to not get a WrestleMania payday. It's very possible that he could slide into the Samoa Joe spot and wrestle him again, or he could slide into the Seth Rowan spot. and wrestled Triple H.

There are a lot of options for him now that weren't there when Seth Rollins was the number two baby face on the show. Of course that assumes Seth Rollins is not going to be a WrestleMania. Yeah, so everything else, I mean, all that stuff was logical games and we've been spoiling, you know,

we've been going into spoiler territory like crazy. If on the off chance there's anything you're trying to keep yourself cloistered from these things, just stop listening now if you haven't already. Part of the fun of being a wrestling fan is spoiling yourself now. It's sad but true. The proliferation of the dirt sheet, quote-unquote dirt sheet culture has meant that most of the people at the Almodel

probably knew Randy Orden was going to win. They weren't sure. I was really mad. I mean, what do you think about that? I'm just like, I'm trying to imagine how I would have felt if I had been surprised, right? Randy Orton is a really terrible non-surprise, right? Anybody with a career as long as he has and a kind of, I mean, it's, it's, you can spend all day talking yourself out of anybody, but Randy Orton, I mean, as great as he is, is one of the easier guys to get, to get kind of, you know, eye-roly at. I don't, I mean, I like the idea of, of him versus Bray being for the title.

I said that they didn't have to, you know, the titles aren't necessary for the higher up feuds or whatever. or I like him against Sina, I guess I can talk myself into that. I'm not crazy about it, but I don't know. It just seems like, do you think we would have been more excited about Orton winning if it had been a total shock? Or we would have been less excited because of the sort of Orton, the space Orton occupies in our mind? I think that they booked it perfectly to serve both masters.

So assuming that you know that he's probably going to go over, You can prepare yourself for whatever disappointment you might have because you wanted it to be someone younger, someone who hadn't had that opportunity, someone who hadn't won that accolade. But the way that they did it for the people who weren't spoiled was number 30, Roman Raines. That was great.

Who, unfortunately for him and for the company, is not very popular. The most important thing, yeah, I mean, I've said this before. The most important role Sina has played over the past five or ten years is to make your favorite wrestler seem important by standing next to him. Right, right. But the role, the really kind of brilliant role that they've built for Roman Raines is to convince you that he's about to win and then pull the carpet out from under him and then you get Finn Baller or you get, you know, and on Sunday they certainly pulled, they certainly did that with Randy. Yeah, it was a big baby face. pop for a guy who's currently working heel, who the fans, the casual fan should not be excited

for winning the Royal Rumble, and who the smart fan is going to think, oh, this guy again, really? So it was a perfect way to swerve people, to get a pop, get a big, happy reaction from people as they go home. Yeah. A quick word from one of our sponsors. I think we can all agree that keeping our home safe is an extremely high price. priority, right? But it shouldn't come at the expense of signing your life away on a confusing long-term contract. Thankfully, there's a smarter way now to protect your home. SimplySafe home security. These guys are the guys that I trust. With SimplySafe, there's no annual contracts

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That's simplysafe.com slash ringer. So the rumors right now, the reason, I mean, so again, spoilers, the rumors that, I mean, there are a lot of rumored matches for Fastlane, but the number one is Goldberg versus Owens for the Universal Championship. Oh boy. And further to that, that Goldberg may be winning and carrying the title into his, again, assuming he's going to go up against Lesnar? I mean, Lesnar did challenge him to a match on my mind.

Monday night. Yeah, at that point. You don't challenge people to matches and have them to be like, no, actually, I'm going to feud with Roman Rains. Yeah, I'm okay. You know what? I'm afraid of you. Yeah. Why don't we just make a date for SummerSlam?

I think I have an opening in like a 1030. I would love if Goldberg had a secretary or a personal assistant or something. He was just like, let me just check my day planner. Exactly. That would be great. Yeah. So, wow, Goldberg versus Owens. I hate this.

I'm sorry. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate this idea. too. It's just a bad use of the belt as a prop. It's a bad use of Kevin Owens, and it's an even worse use of Goldberg. So if that happens, okay, let's just say,

let's spin all this forward as far as we can. If Owens does drop the belt at Fastlane, presumably he'll get a return match on Raw and lose it or something, but do you think that means we're going to get Owens Jericho at Mania? I guess. I mean, what else is he going to do? Jericho Zane is now rumored for Fastlane after Zane beat him on Monday night. I think that's a feud they could carry through to WrestleMania if they want it to.

Right. I mean, my guess is that most of what we're talking about is up in the air right now. The Sutherland v. Samoa Joe is on the tentative. Yeah, we'll see. Although that would be great. If he is injured but it can make WrestleMania, probably they'll keep him out of Fastlane just to be on the safe side, unless it's a total fluke and he's walking right now as we're talking about this.

Yeah. That'd be great if he just, like, came out in a wheelchair and Samoa Joe beat him down again. I mean, how great would that. I mean, there's so many things you can do if he's going to make WrestleMania. Yeah, there's ways that Stone Cold Steve Austin was on Raw every week while he was recovering from his neck surgery.

Right. It's possible. Okay, Roman Raines versus Bronz Stromen at Fastlane. What do you think Braun's going to be doing at WrestleMania? Again, the only non-accounted for babyface at this point, is Finn Baller. So we have to figure out where he fits in this puzzle. Dude, Braun-Stromen might be the baby face to fit into the Seth Rollins,

the Seth-Rollins slot at this point. Braun versus Triple H, I would mark out for. Wouldn't that be great? Because he'd have to assume that Triple H would just let himself get manhandled. Yeah, they should just do, they should just go all in on baby-faced brawn. I mean, just let him come out to Hulk Hogan's music. Put him in some like yellow briefs. Yeah, that would be great.

But he'd have to just keep squashing people. That's the thing that WWE has historically not been good at is we've got a Goldberg-type character or diesel or whoever it is. And when they become a baby face, they still have to sell. They still have to occasionally get screwed out of the title or whatever it is. They have to cut promos where they make jokes. Braun Strowman's appeal is that he goes out there and he just beats people up. Yeah. No, I totally agree.

I mean, listen, if we did power rankings for all the wrestlers, but also, like, factored in the downside of, like, how vastly the fans like us could turn on them? I mean, you, like, you factor in someone like, like, Kevin Owens is, like, a solid A, right? But, and the potential downside, I mean, I can't even imagine what the, I mean, like, maybe if he was, like, if he, like, you know, like was caught on tape, like yelling at his kid or something, you know, like, but like, I can't imagine. There's nothing that he could do in wrestling terms that would really make, make our opinion of him drop lower than like a half-letter grade, right? But you look at someone like, Big Cass is a good one.

He's like, I'd say he's B-plus right now. Big Cass could be an F in like a month, you know, if they book him the wrong way. Oh, yeah. And Bronz-Sromen, I think, has a lot of that downside potential, too, because like we said it before, the number one thing he has going for him is that we know, like, it's so implausible that he would be a permanent fixture baby face or champion of any sort because we've seen how they do monsters, you know, he's going to, he might be Kane, but he's not going to be, you know, he's not going to be John Cena. Or The Undertaker, who was, even for a period of time,

the Undertaker was losing matches and not, you know, holding up his end of the bargain as a monster, but he had a certain charisma and a certain, you know, flourish of his gimmick that made people still like him as he was losing matches to Brett Hart or Sean Michaels or Mankind or mankind or. whoever it was. Braun-Strauman doesn't have that. He doesn't have a gimmick other than being huge and hurting people. Yeah, so he's got a lot of potential to fall. But, yeah, I think that for the most part, it's a...

He could be Mabel in a heartbeat. Yeah. And we don't want that. I mean, he could be, when we look at people who, I mean, even people who were successful, I'd be like, Diesel was a success, right? But, like, Diesel in 2017 would not have been a success. I think it's arguable whether or not Diesel was a success. because the business was down for that.

You're right, you're right. Yes, by like a lot of metrics, you can probably make that case. I just mean, like, we think we remember Diesel fondly, and a lot of that has to do with him jumping to WCW. We love Sean Michaels and there's lots of other reasons. But yeah, so anyway, all of that, I don't even know. We're just talking about Braun Stromen being the baby phase, being a potential baby phase replacement for Seth Rollins.

But, yeah, that's an interesting one. Sasha versus Niagara Jacks is on the roster for Fast Lane. Seamus and Zazaar versus the club is on the roster for Fast Lane. We think Raines Taker is going to be the WrestleMania match at this point. The Undertaker needs to put somebody over who's not Brock Lesnar and give a meaningful rub to a young star. And if it's going to be anybody, we know it's going to be Roman Reigns. So just have it be Roman Reigns and call it a day.

I don't mind that. 10 to 15 minute match Raines does a lot of selling does his big Superman come back wins the match they have an embrace of some sort shake hands, hug, whatever it is he passes a torch to the new

big guy and it's over I was watching I guess Raw with the valet on Monday night because on Monday or maybe it was but yeah but I think it was on Monday we were watching and Roman Raines came on and she was I mean she's not been watching frequently until

fairly recently, and she was just like, oh, can they just put the belt on him and get it over with? And I was like, thank you. You understand now. I know, like, it's perfect. It's like when you're watching a show like moonlighting and you just want the main characters to get together.

Knowing that it's going to make everything worse, but it's just like, I'm tired. The tension moonlighting was wonderful. We're talking about like season seven friends, basically. It's just like just do it again. Come on. Please. But, yeah, so, okay, so let's just go through this.

If Seth Rollins is healthy, then we have Seth versus Triple H. Y. We have Roman versus Undertaker. We have Goldberg versus Brock, maybe for the title. And then presumably at that point, they're going to pull the trigger on Owens Jericho. Presumably, yeah. The other direction is to keep the belt on Owens. Have him wrestle Finn Baller.

I always come back to Finn Baller because... Well, because he's not in a storyline. He's not a storyline, but it's also the most logical angle for the title is he got hurt. He had to surrender the belt. He comes back. He says, no one ever beat me for this title. I have the first claim on it. If they don't bring him back, they don't have to worry about that dangling plot thread.

But if they bring him back and his first goal isn't to win the universal title, then nothing makes sense. And his motivation, his character is just flush down the toilet. Yeah. That's the money match. Owens and Jericho could continue as a couple for a while. I don't disagree with you. Okay, I'm just going to, okay, but if Rollins is out, let's say everything else stays the same, and you don't get Finn Baller.

Okay. All right? I'm going to name some names, and you tell me who you would like to see in this match. Okay. All right. Your options are, Big Cass. No. Braun Strowman.

I'm on the fence But I would enjoy that match probably And Sammy Zane No Sammy Zane And let me pull a name out of a hat Kofi Kingston Well it's not going to be Copee Kingston

I'm just picking Kofi I just want Kofi to get the singles push out of the new day I love Biggie But you could Biggie or Kofi Or Xavier take your pick The New Day has nothing going on They're incredibly over I just don't see how you get them to a point where they're upset at Triple H for something.

I can see Sammy Zane being that like, no, you know what, NXT was built by people like me and people like Seth Rollins and not by Samoa Joe, who quite frankly is more remembered for other promotions, being in other places. I created this. I was one of the first champion. Seth Rollins was the first NXT champion. and you come here and you take all the credit, we're the ones that are bleeding in the ring, sweating in the ring. That's your guy.

Huh. Even more so than a Bronz-Strauman. Braun-Strauman for me would be just amusing to watch these two guys lock up. I mean, listen, the New Day, I agree with you about the New Day, about the getting there is the hard part, but the getting there isn't that hard.

This is pro wrestling, right? I mean, they need a reboot, you know, a soft reboot more than that. than anybody else. Not anybody else, but amongst the top-level people who we love. I mean, it wouldn't be that hard for them just to, like, you know, storm the ring and be serious for five minutes and then just get themselves into a feud. I've always liked your idea of moving them up the card as a group.

Instead of splitting them up and saying, all right, you're going to go chase the U.S. title, you're going to go chase the universal title and you're going to end up being a manager. But even if you did it, I mean, remember when they had the, there was like a, wasn't there like a DX themed in your house pay-per-view where like everybody wrestled for a different belt. Yeah. I mean, you could definitely imagine a paper view where it was a minor raw pay-per-view where, like, Xavier got the cruiserweight title and, you know, just on, and, you know, Big E gets the universal title and Kofi gets the U.S. title or something like that, you know? I mean, you could do a thing where they're all doing separate things briefly, but I think the movie is you just let them all be shooting with the top heel or the top baby face, whatever. I just worry that they see them strictly as a comedy act.

That's silly. For whatever reason, and I don't want to bring race into it and say, oh, it's a race thing, it's a race thing. Well, I mean, they got over as a comedy act, but it's silly to look at it. That wasn't the point. They got themselves over from a shitty gimmick, and to think they couldn't do it again is just short-sighted. The thing that makes me think it's just because they're a comedy act and they're not going to move them up the card is you have the opportunity to have them work with. Gales and Anderson. Instead of the New Day getting serious to meet Gales and Anderson

and do an angle that way, they make Gales and Anderson do comedy. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a problem that WAB's had a lot. And even, given the benefit of the doubt, let's say that they know that there's a bunch of potential with the New Day or with anybody else. It's the intransigence of like, it's the unwillingness to, it's the unwillingness to mess with a good thing unless there's a sure thing. on the other hand, or as your other option,

you know, I'm sure there have been a million comedy gimmicks throughout the years from, you know, Eugene to Santino to, I mean, there are a lot of people who, well,

I mean, maybe Santino is not the best example or even Eugene, but there have been a lot of comedy acts. I mean, even look at Enzo and cast now, doing their like shilling, no pun intended,

my friend, for the, for, you know, whatever voodoo or whatever they're doing, you know, but they're, but,

I'm sure that there's a point where you're like where someone's like settling into a comedy routine and they're like, you know what? When we need to get serious for a feud, it'll be no problem. We'll just flip to switch. And then it's like, oh, but they're, you know, they're selling a lot of merch that we're selling a lot of snake gloves or whatever.

Like it's, it's, and then, you know, like you just can't, you don't want to give up to snake glove, like, money just unless,

and you're waiting for the moment to put Santino in like a major title feud. And the deeper he gets in to the silly stuff, it's never going to happen, you know? The best example of this working is McFoly. But Mick Foley had the benefit of saying, all right, if I'm going to get really silly, I'm going to be dude love.

If I'm going to be sort of funny, but also kind of off-kilter, I can be mankind. But if I just want to say goodbye to all of the comedy elements of my gimmick, then I'm Cactus Jack or I'm just McFoly. Yeah. Well, listen, I'm going to be the Cactus. Jack of this podcast. Actually, producer Jim is being

the Cactus Jack right now because he's in my ear telling me and we've got to wrap it up. Big Bang! This has been an incredible week for fantasy booking for imagining what Russell May is going to look like. And Ron Smackdown weren't that bad either. And the Royal Rumble was, as we said on Sunday night, again, podcast of Sunday Night's show exists

in this feed. So does video, if you want to see me in a Rick Flair Road, by the way, and Wig. It's worth your time, trust me. But, yeah, I mean, our quick reactions don't all, I mean, aren't 100% because so much stuff has happened since then. But, yeah, I mean, just charting the course for its WrestleMania is pretty crazy. One thing that we didn't really touch on, we mentioned The Undertaker, but Meltzer also reported that he's in bad shape. That he, like, I'm sure everybody watching it said, man, he looks really old. And, in fact, he has rushed himself back from surgery.

The hope is that, you know, he has a lot of time to get in a better shape between now and WrestleMania. But man, that's, for all the various people we've talked about him tangling with at WrestleMania, and how good it could be, I mean, if there's a potential that that matches is, you know, no bueno. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't surprise me now that we've seen him out and working and not working at the highest level that we know he used to be capable of. Not surprising to me that when he came back to Smackdown and they were, like, teasing that he would work with AJ Styles or. he would be on Smackdown every week or whatever, that didn't happen. Mm-hmm.

Because he's not capable of doing that. Yeah. No, it's true. We didn't even get the full entrance. I mean, it was a long way to walk anyway, but... Did you get the little golf carts they had them? I did. Those are awesome.

They did an amazing job of not showing the golf carts. You know what they should have done? WrestleMania 3 carts. I know. That's really great. I would have marked out so hard for that. Before we get totally off the run. Royal Rumble, kudos to my best friend Peter Rosenberg for his stellar work on the pre-show.

We were recording over a lot of it, but I went back and watched it all, and he did that little, he did a walk around. We were texting about it. I didn't, I forgot what he was talking about. I couldn't tell what he was talking about, and he was talking about how, like, the walk was the scariest part, and I was like, they didn't let you ride in the golf cart to another ring, like they made you walk. But he was, he did a little, like, stage thing, like, whatever.

And it was, you know, they put a lot of, you know, put a lot in his hand. He's living our dreams right now He is, he is And the only possible way for this You know part of this new This new stage in his life to end Is with a, is with like a WrestleMania match next year That we will all shit on for the rest of our lives

It's gonna be him versus Ryan Seacrest And the Miz And he's, it's a handicapped match If he is in Nikki, if he is because, you know He's the biggest Bella Mark ever If he is in Nicky and John's Corner for the mixed tag team match and he like ends up scrambling in and getting taking a skull crushing finale yeah is that make the match better or worse well I don't

want this to seem like I'm I'm shitting on Peter because I'm not but better yeah it'd just be a fun moment it would be really fun and not again I don't wait although I don't wish him ill will either yes that's what I said he's the missing baby face maybe I should put him in the running what if it was just how much money would it take for you I was going to say, what if it's just Peter versus Braunsterman at WrestleMania? How much money would it take for you to wrestle Bronzeman at WrestleMania, knowing that you get to wrestle at WrestleMania? Yeah, okay.

The only condition is no one's going to help you train. You can do whatever you want on your own, but you get like a week to get ready. One week? One week? To learn how to take a bump? And you know that Braun Strowman is going to be working really stuff. Like someone's going to tell Braun Strowman right before the match that you've, like, that you slept with his girlfriend.

Stretch this guy. Yeah. I would not do that. If I had like a couple months to go to Lance Storm's training facility or the performance center or something where I could learn to take just a regular bump, just one bump, a back bump. Sure. But if you're saying you have one week to, you know, do some jogging and maybe learn to run the ropes, no way. He would, I would probably break my neck. You're out of your mind, Shoemaker.

All right. I think you wish me ill will I like you went straight to Lance Storm though That's good Landstorm is I think that's the right is the right answer To that question He would teach me the right way to do everything And just like he did with

Did he train Billy Kay and Peyton Royce Ores or just Peyton Royce? I can't say for sure Because I never can tell them apart Oh come on They're not identical but it's just like Oh I don't know which one's that Peyton Royce is the

Is the future champion right Now now you're You've got me. He stumped me. You've never stumped me before. Yeah. Peyton Royce, I think, has the rocket attached to her back to bring it back around to that. Listen, we've got to get out of here.

We've spent this entire time basically just fantasy booking and monologuing. We got all the way from Samoa Joe to Peyton Royce. So this is a NXT-sponsored episode of the Masked Man show. There's nothing else. We don't know what's going to happen at wrestling. No. Although the further we get in, I feel like the uncertainty is what's driving me. I am so agitated that I don't know what's happening at WrestleMania that I feel like

did this, none of this is on purpose, or at least the Seth Rohn's part isn't, but I'm more into it than I have been in forever. I mean, God bless him for creating a situation where there's no clear path. Because we're so smart now. We've been, we're adults talking about professional wrestling. we've seen it all, and we still don't know how this is going to shake out. And so that naturally makes us more excited for it. It is.

It is. Any last thoughts? Anything you want to plug? Any Royal Rumble final takeaways? I think I was unnecessarily hard on the match. The Rumble itself? Yeah. I listened to Austin's analysis of it, and I listened to J.R.'s analysis of it on their podcast.

And I think I was a little tough on that middle section after Stromew. went out yeah the middle section is never great so yeah it's definitely the best pay-per-view of 2017 so far it's the only one too but yeah no we don't get we don't we don't count nxc takeover San Antonio no takeover was better obviously takeover was a lot of fun anyway yeah it's I agree I think that I think that it's with a little distance it wasn't quite as bad but I think that I think that it all goes to WWE really needing to kind of kind of reimagined what the Royal Royal Rumble means in the modern era because the interplay of it's not just the Rumble, it's every pay-per-view, but the interplay of fan expectation and what you can deliver is so out of whack and it's not, it's not like a, you know, this is not a straightforward fraction. This is a really complicated equation because everybody's disappointed almost no matter what. Unless it's, unless you can, unless you can manufacture a super hot NXC store to run out and steal the title from the champion at the

end of every pay-per-view, those expectations are always play a negative, almost always play a negative role. But yeah, I mean, the Rumble in particular, I think, it's just like anything that we expected that was even a little bit expected, felt like a left-down, anything that surprised us felt like even more of a letdown.

Like, it was, in the moment, it's not a great feeling. But the whole show leading up to the Rumble was really good, and like you said, the Rumble deserves more credit than we're giving it. Yeah, and I hate that people were like sour on Tye Dillinger being number 10, because they guessed it. Somebody, one of my buddies who I was texting with said,

if Ty Dillinger, though, is your big surprise, then, like, then you have a problem. That was a perfect, perfect booking for Ty Dillinger. Yeah. You know, it would have been great to use Ty Dillinger as a misdirection and then have Samoa Joe or somebody or, you know, Nakamura come out at that point or something, you know. Sure.

Anyway, we got to get out of here. The Royal Rumble was what it was. Seth Rollins, we wish you all the best. Booking Committee of the WWE. We wish you all the best, too. Yeah, good luck. You got a lot to do over the next couple of weeks. My guess is there's some all-hands meetings going on right now

to figure this stuff out. And I feel like I'm forgetting something. I know I'm forgetting something. Fun fact of the week is that I just realized Kerry von Erick's never been eliminated from a Royal Rumble. But all that said... I can't believe you said that. What is wrong?

He's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. He deserves the 92 championship. That was for the title. He's the uncrowned WWF champion. Both feet have to hit the floor. Apologies to the world for that joke, and apologies to Dean Ambrose. We'll see you back here next week, Humanoids.