The Press Box - Ep. 263: 'Bachelor Party' With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

Episode Date: February 22, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman sits down with Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin to discuss a day in the life of Vanessa (2:00), being in on Corinne (6:50), Rachel's level of interest in Nick (25:25), and a trip to Arkansas with Raven (43:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Go to podsurvey.com slash Bachelor. That's Podsurvey.com slash B-A-C-H-E-L-O-R. Thanks for your help, and now it's time for Bachelor Party. Welcome to Bachelor Party. It's hometown dates week, so I had to bring in my family. Mallory Rubin and Bill Simmons. Oh, that's going to cry. That was so touching.

You guys are my work family. You're a good cop. I'm bad cop. Right. I come in, you soften them up, make everyone feel at home, and make a joke about how old the scotch is. And then I come in with the scary big eyes and I say, if you hurt her.

Cut out your heart. And so that's what Vanessa's sister did. Indeed. Vanessa, to me, I was going to say it was the least interesting date. How about this? The least interesting. Vanessa. I've cooled on her big time. Really? So you're out on her.

Not out on her. I just... She's definitely winning. First of all, if you're on a contest where you're competing for somebody's affection with 25 other girls, you can't just repeatedly talk about it how hard it's been for you to date somebody who's dating other people. That's the point of the show. I want to hear it. Just win the contest.

The centerpiece of a day in the life of Vanessa, which I noticed they kind of were hammering home this year more than others. They're like, this is a day in the life of X. Like they don't usually do that. Usually it's just like come home with me. To do a day in life of Vanessa, that meant going to Vanessa's school where she does special education for adults. Yes. I was just catching up with Roger Sherman's. Bachelor Recap on our website, which is funny, very funny every week.

Two mentions of Rogers, Abuela, Jewish Abuela, and Cuba, I mean in Miami this week, Cuban Jewish Abuela. Okay. And Rogers, like, that was, like, genuinely really moving. And, like, they, like, obviously love her. And, like, while that might be true, that was not my take on that part of the date. How did that sit with you, Valerie? So I was watching this.

I'll get a little personal here. Oh. Because I assume that you were going to say. I know some people said that they thought that the show was exploiting the special needs students. I was watching this. My family happened to be in town. My sisters, you guys know, is a special needs person. My mother used to be a special needs educator.

We watched as a family, and they were both very moved by it. Really? Interesting. Touched by it. My mom in particular, who had worked in a similar situation, was like, isn't it lovely to see that sort of situation put in a positive light to show what the meaningful relationship between a student. and a teacher in that situation can mean, and that sort of made me feel okay about being kind of touched by now. My very first instinct, the moment they walked in the door was, oh boy.

Like this could go bad. Yeah, well, it's just you know that they're basically putting people with life challenges in a situation where you cannot, as the viewer, know that that person understands the situation that he or she is in fully. Who are they asking for permission? Yeah, I was like, what's the release situation here? Like, who's signing the releases? I don't know.

I just had a lot of questions. So I had a similar situation in Mallory because my father, before he became superintendent, was director of special needs and got his Ph.D. And the whole thing and worked with the special needs community in Easton for years and years and years. So I've seen the people that are in that situation working with them day to day to day. So when this happened, I was like, this is going to be really interesting. Like, first of all, how are they going to handle it? What is she like?

And it made me like her more. And the way she handled everything and how she ran the class and dealt with the students, it's just clear. Like, she's such a good person. She's genuine. Yeah. And I was like, I'm in. Yeah.

I thought the date was boring, though. The day was boring because she's normal, basically. But that said, the date was boring. She's compassionate. Yeah. She has students that love her and she loves them. And she's had her heartbroken. Those are all very pedestrian normal things.

And then you have Corinne over here, who's just a horn dog. and offers really none of the redeeming qualities of, say, Vanessa, and yet it seemed like he liked Corinne Moore, and it all comes down to the sex thing on The Bachelor. It really does. It's just when you have that thing and you can see it and they just want to jump each other's bones, it's really hard for other people to win.

I thought the Vanessa edit was confirmation that she wins. I agree with you. Because it was so overtly negative, and so much effort was. made to make it look like that relationship was entering a fraught, troubled state. It reminded me of Jordan with Jojo last year. It was really clear the entire way. Maybe other people, maybe there was sexual chemistry with another contestant.

But it was so obvious Jordan was going to win. And then they had to edit his meeting with Jojo's family to make it seem like the family hated him and wasn't going to approve or she was going to have to go with Robbie because that whole like meet and greet went more smoothly. And it just like reeked of that same kind of producer intervention and editing after the fact to make it seem like there was more trouble than there actually was. I totally agree that. Plus, like Nick's stories that he's been heartbroken, right?

Oh, you know he's been on the show. This is four times. I'm not sure if you heard about that, but his fourth time with the show. He's been on before. He's been in love twice. And it's a good narrative of like the two heartbroken people find each other. Can I just point out one thing, though, about Vanessa's family? Yeah.

Italian. Yeah. Don't sleep on that. The Italians are, they're all in, but they're also suspicious. The food looked delicious. And they want to know, like, the way they hand the, I'm half Italian is exactly how, you know, the Italian side of the film. I grew up.

Would have handled it that way. Like, so what are you doing? Why are you doing this? And putting the person on the defensive made sense to me. I liked that. Also, I would say despite the rain, Montreal seemed delightful. My favorite city of the four that we saw. Although, that was Nick's biggest lie of the whole show.

I mean, I could move to Montreal. You've never moved now. There's no way. Guess what's not in Montreal? Like paparazzi? Colleg with opportunities. There's no way. We know that Nick likes to take a show.

shirt off, and it's definitely too cold for that in Montreal. So he's not saying there. No, there's no way. Let's move on from Vanessa. We've talked about it for too long. Let's talk about Corinne. Like, the main thing about Corinne, were you surprised by her family or was that who you were expecting? I was not surprised by her family. I was surprised by Corinne. Why? This was the episode where she, I'm in on Corrine. Me too. I'm in on Corinne. I'm in. I'm a-lilian. She won't believe in. The upside of the century. Forget the people. Patriots coming back and winning the Super Bowl.

This was the moment that defied the odds. No, actually, let's not forget the Patriots. Can we please? Can we please forget the Patriots winning in the Super Bowl? Let's keep the 25 point lead as the biggest. She, unlike other villains in the show. And you are the true Bachelor scholar of the group here. So please correct me if I'm wrong.

But my assessment in the time I've been watching is that the villains are often so easily cast as the villains because they do not have a really sincere connection to the contestant. This was the moment where Karen stopped being a caricature and stopped being a self-parody. And the thing that you had to notice, even as she was bizarrely lounging in bed with her father drinking red wine, which like, I'm close with my dad, but have definitely never done that. The thing that really has shown through the most was that her love for Nick is really genuine. She is in love with this guy. She wants to be with him, and it was sort of winning, which I was shocked by.

Let me flip that even a step further. I think she's been in love with him genuinely since, like, the first show, and all the decisions that she made were based on, I love this guy, but she's young and she doesn't know how to get him. So I'm going to get a bouncy castle, and I'm going to hop his bones, and I'm going to show up. It's like she didn't know how to win him, but like genuinely loved him. Sure. And now that it's getting closer and closer, and Nick obviously is just trying to get to the final three with her. Oh, definitely. He's taking the car for a test ride.

He's just like, if I get the final three, I'm taking the car to San Francisco and back. Eight-hour test ride. Eight-hour. Oh, yeah. Well, they're only in the fantasy suite for eight hours, right? Yeah, but Juliette's theory and Carrie's theory, you know. Oh, quick-knit. He can't make it eight hours.

Quick take. But the eight hours might help them. That's true. That's true. I think Curran made some smart choices with her hometown date, which kind of gets to what you were saying. She had to use her sexuality to win him over, but now she's on her playground, she picked a great date, which is shopping. I just want to tell you, like, when a girl buys you clothes with their own money, it's a win. I was touched.

I was aroused. I was all in. I was like, this is great. This is a woman who made a point of being like, I'm going to shop for you. Let me pay. She flipped the tables on him. It was awesome. It was a great power move.

I think Nick also likes a power move. So she got was reading her audience. Also, I think another reason why Karen came off well is because she wasn't drunk. She's been drunk almost the entire season. When she says crazy, rude things, it's because she's wasted. I texted Jacoby. She's had more champagne this season than Kenny Anderson did when he was in the Celtics. She's had the glass of champagne.

Constantly. How many times? Like 20 different times? Who drinks this much champagne? I think it's a good move. It's terrible for you. That's true. I don't know how these women don't like gain 10 pounds.

Well, also it gives you the quick buzz and then just makes you tired. That's why she's taking all these naps. That's why she's napping. Your season long theory. Yeah, that's what she was wide awake. When I bartended, I hated when people ordered champagne because I felt like champagne, then one glass of wine, they were going to be ready to go home. It's the absolute worst hangover, too.

It's terrible. As someone who likes champagne, you just keep drinking it and drinking it. Like, I could easily go three hours, 10 glasses of champagne, and then you're like wrecked for two years. Yeah, you might as well have done crystal meth at that point. It's really, really bad for you. Corinne's family also pretty formidable. Her dad was asking the tough questions.

I liked how money was front and center of Corinne's date. It just felt like very on-brand. Her top concern... They pushed a little. Sure. Sure. I mean, you know, it's not like Corinne could set up the shopping day without the producers anyway. I mean, I was wondering who actually paid for Nick's outfit.

I was going to ask you that. Do you think Nick, like if Corinne actually paid? I think she expensed it. She signed the receipt. Yeah. They probably reimbursed her. Yeah, they must. So I look at it because I'm very close to my own.

daughter. And I also, I think dads being close to their daughters is just something I have a lot of affection for. Sure. And she seemed very close to her dad. Yeah. And I think, you know, we've seen bachelor situations where maybe there were daddy issues that explained some of the behavior.

And in this one, it just seemed like she's just like this little spoiled princess that her dad kind of gave her everything. And now she's on this show trying to win. And she's, I'm all in on Corinne. Complete 180. If your son brought home Corinne, would you be like, yes, go for it? Oh, I think he will. I don't think he can rule it out.

It's in play. She is definitely his type. Blonde? Blonde and probably somebody you should stay away from. Seems to be at age nine, the two things he likes right now. Being a shock about Corinne is that she's the oldest. I never would have guessed that. And the sister's name?

She does seem like a young sister. What did you say? The sister's name? Taylor explains a lot. It really does. How about this? Compare and contrast. Corinne to the lead character in Clueless,

played by Alicia Silverstone, whose name I can't remember. Share. She's a little share-like, right? That's pretty rude to share. Come on. Wow. Why? I like her in, but no. How is it rude to share?

The first 45 minutes of that movie, they're the same person. Share was much more composed. She got the... Well, she wasn't like as sexually... Yeah. Yeah, she was saving herself for the college guys, remember? Nick just wants to get her in the suite. 100%.

He's trying to get her the three. Okay. Last week. No, but he explained it to Julia. But if that was all he could. cared about. He could have just done it. She wants to do it correctly by the rules. His number one concern is his image. 100% Nick over everything. What I noticed above everything else, I know we're not on Rachel yet, and I won't jump ahead. But since he asked you 27 times during your 36

minute podcast, what does you think? Did I do okay? How did I do? I noticed when he asked Rachel, how did I do? He's like desperate for approval. On the whole, as you guys know, I'm very pro-nick. I think he's incredibly sexy, and even though he's kind of, dull is unkind, but he's not dull. He's just, he's worried about how it's coming off. He's dry, and he's been through the rode through the rode through a couple times. It's a little basic, but he is, in general, someone I root for him a fan of. This was an incredibly emasculating episode first.

Oh, every step. But 100%. I think he needs to be with somebody who kind of wears the pants and orders him around. I think he wants that. Yeah, I think that's his personality. Like, if he marries Corinne, Corinne's going to be like, we're doing this, we're doing this, we're going here, you're going to wear that? I think that might be what he wants.

It is what he wants. Andy was definitely like that. Like, she was bossy. He liked it. Yeah, and he was really into her. And Caitlin also a strong personality. Like, he's into women who are assertive. I think it's, I never had a type.

I think it's weird when people have a certain type. No, I just kind of rolled with the flow. Oh, my God. I was really liked anyone who laughed at my jokes. It's my type. Like, oh, you have great taste of jokes. It's great for you. Do you have a type?

You know, I like those like middle-aged, pasty British men. So yes. I watched the crown over the holiday weekend and I was like, a lot for you there. She loved Lane from Mad Men. It was like her dream guy. He's on the crown, too.

He's on the crown. He's the father. That's right. That's his speech, right? But that definitely is Nick's type. But that's not Vanessa. I think it is. You think she's eventually like, you're moving to Montreal

and you're going to get a job here? I don't think she's like that. Sneaky thing about Vanessa. I bet she wants to leave Montreal. I bet she's like, yes, I'll move to L.A., I'm there. And he really responded to how she called him out about the Bouncy Castle episode and sort of sat him down and was like, this isn't, you're not handling this well. Like, he kind of wants to be scolded a little bit, which makes it weird that you.

He wasn't into the Jasmine choke. I know. Everything points to the fact that he would have been. Non-sexual scolding only. Where Jasmine got scary there. Oh, yeah. I think that, you know, he can't roll with the punches with stuff like that. He didn't seem open it.

would have had more fun with it. Definitely. Because he's uptight, but he would have rolled with it. Ben is so sweet and, like, nice, forward-facing, but he's definitely freakyer than Nick. I think we have, can we know that Nick is just probably not that fun. Well, I also think that Nick. I love me, Nick. No, I think.

I really like Nick. I really do. I think Nick, though, I don't think he, it was so fast to become the Bachelor. Yeah. That I don't think he put a lot of thought into hear the nine things I have to do or whatever, because like Ben said on your podcast that my daughter and I listen to it every time we drive to a game. She loved the Ben Higgins. Ben Higgins was like the Mel Kuiper Jr., the bachelor.

Spoiler alert. Ben's coming back next week. Great. But Ben was like, you can't openly kiss these girls in front of the other girls. That's like rule number one. And Nick's been on the show a bunch of times and climbs in the bouncy castle with Corinne. And it's like writhing around in there. And that makes me think like, does he even have a plan?

Does he just want to be on the show? I think there's two people on TV whose libidos can't be stopped. One is Tony Raines of the challenge. Yes. And the other is Nick Viall. And I think sometimes it just takes over. When he's with Corinne, he's obviously so attracted to her that he just sort of like forgets the cameras are there. When she just jumps on him in the store and he's like, she's like riding him?

That was ridiculous. Do you think it's just Nick or like if Corinne walked in now, would I just be like sizing her up? Like is there some sort of? We probably all would be. Is there some sort of natural sexual energy she has that just anyone in her vicinity, they just women are threatened by it and men can't handle it? I think, I would say yes, because of how the women responded to her. Because they could, like, feel it.

Because it sounds like she did anything that bad. She didn't. She just went topos in the pool. Maybe shouldn't have done that way. And she also was rude. She was like, she was rude to them. But she was drunk. She's a mean drunk, I think.

Yeah. I agree with all that, but I don't think it's about Corinne. I think it's about Nick. And I think it's okay. Like, I actually really liked the way he explained this to you on the episode last week where he basically said, I've asked these women to be outgoing and to be assertive and to sort of take control of the situation. And then, like, what am I going to do when they do that in whatever way they choose? Like, what's the alternative there?

Basically to, like, slut shame one of the women for trying to be sexual. That's a really bad look for him, too. So his point about how you're always alienating somebody in that situation, the woman you're with, the women who are watching the viewer or somebody, like, not to be like, Nick's life is so hard. He's handsome and famous and on TV and getting to date 30 beautiful women. Like, he's fine. And that's a new $3,000 outfit. There you go. Yeah. Great outfit.

By the way, the most expensive piece of garb I've ever owned in my life. Wedding dress? Wedding dress. A fraction of the cost of that sweater. A fraction. It's just absurd. He did seem a little uncomfortable with the expensive clothes. But was he uncomfortable because of the cost of the items or because she bought the stuff for him?

So that's, I'm glad you brought that up. I think there's a difference between like liking to be called out and having someone like pay for you. Right. And I think that he is in some ways a little traditional. And I was wondering if the shopping actually will do Corinne in. Well, how much money does, like, what was his job before this? Software sales.

Software sales. Yeah. So there might be a little bit of a hang up with. She comes from a lot of money. Well, also, Corinne's dad obviously does not think that software sales is good enough because he doesn't think that he will be rich enough for Corinne. Corinne's dad was like the dad out of an 80s rom-com. Oh, I loved it.

He was so good. When are you going to get married? Like, he was one of those, like, what, a 15-year stretch where that dad was a character and half the rom-offs? 100%. Like, kind of like the pre-father of the bride dad. Yes. I liked it, though. It was so transparent.

I'm just like, yeah, a lot of people worry about that. Like, when you're getting married, that actually is like a consideration. Like, you know, not the only one, but, like, it is, like, something to think about, like, can we buy a house? Another thing to think about is a dad of a daughter as I watch this show. I always put myself in the dad's shoes. and like, if you're Corinne's dad just banging out these episodes, there's some rough moments where you just got to... If you're Corinne...

Kind of really reevaluate some of the decisions you made. The other thing that I also really wanted me over about Corinne, by the way, speaking of her family, is how they talked about Raquel. Like, the reason she calls her nannies is because she's been in her life for so long, not because she, like, was hired yesterday to be her nanny. And I just, that was a rough, that was a rough kind of moment with the... The whole thing is uncomfortable. That was uncomfortable.

That was just... I couldn't really understand. in Raquel. Also, like, just, I don't know. It makes more sense in context now, but it also is just like the way they presented it. The way that the show has made a joke of Raquel is mean. It's actually not Corinne's fault.

Yeah, she's actually this really nice lady who has been with Corinne forever. But that's not on Corinne is my take now. I found that all really unpleasant. There was actually a lot of challenging stuff to watch in the episode, the special needs students, the discussion about race with Rachel's family. Like, on the whole was all the cancer conversation. with Ravens family? Like, all of that was handled pretty well.

You didn't even mention the most uncomfortable. The Raquel thing. The thing is, like, does she actually sit at the table with them every night and have dinner? Do they just do that? To not look bad in the episode because then they're all looking at the window and she's cleaning the dishes. You know, like, they couldn't even maintain the farce for more than one scene. That's like the true, like, exploitative thing. They've taken this woman who, like, you know, who knows what their arrangement is like and whatever.

But they've turned it into like a really uncomfortable, like, off on the show basically. And then it just is wrong. Not as uncomfortable as the date with Rachel, where the producers were obviously like, what's the blackest situation we can put him in right away? Rachel, can you take him to your church? Yeah. And it was just like, just coming out of the gate, they clearly had a meeting where they

said to themselves, Nick and Rachel haven't really addressed the white black thing yet. Like, let's just go in, just come flying in right away. and then make that the theme, to me it feels like totally disingenuous because how does that not come up before she makes the final four? Yeah. How do they not talk about that at all?

Have you ever dated a black girl? I think that's not a conversation before the final four. Well, the thing that's, I think, even worse, is I bet it has come up before because we saw a little bit of it in New Orleans and then they cut it and they only really show them talking about it in the hometowns, basically.

And then the question of why do you like my daughter, like have you ever dated black girls? when the mom was doing that stuff. Like, he just didn't seem like he was being honest. Like, I don't really see color when I see Rachel. It's like, come on. Totally.

Also, like, you don't believe that. I thought he was too honest with his answers to those questions. In general, across the episode. Like when Vanessa's mom was like, what do you like about my daughter? And he stopped just short of being like, I just really want to fuck her. She's so hot. She walked out of the limo and I was like, whoa. Yeah.

And she actually, she had to respond and say, like, that's, what about, like, I know she's beautiful, but what else? And he sort of did the same thing with Rachel's mom. I mean, he made a speech, right? He got on his soapbox for a minutes to go through the prepared answer about, I understand that we're in a situation where we're not the same color and, you know, went through kind of checking off the responses he knew he was supposed to give. But then, like, it was what the sisters, maybe twice out of the five things he said was just, like, she's hot. Right.

He kept doing it. It was particularly weird because he basically got rid of Danielle L because she couldn't answer these questions when he asked her, like, what do you care about in a relationship? and all these sort of like very pro forma questions and her responses were just really bad. So you would think that he would prepare it a little bit more for all of them. But what's the right answer? Like what if he had said, I've always had a thing for black girls.

And this was like, I saw Rachel and I was like, this could be the one. Like that would have been a hundred times weirder. Totally. Whatever like fake presidential answer, there's no way to answer it. No. But the black white thing hung over that whole date and they never,

I just never bought that they were a couple. Well, this is a... Well, this is a... Well, it's hard. two now that we know definitively she doesn't. Well, that's the other day. Yeah, we're watching it. It is weird. There's a lot to unpack with the Rachel D. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

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get $50 off towards any mattress purchase. Terms and conditions will apply. Okay, back to the show. Okay, so let's talk about Rachel. I think it's very important that we frame this correctly. Okay. Thanks to our friends at Frambridge. Thanks to our friends at Frambridge.

Now let's frame our conversation correctly. Yeah. Okay. So last week, right after Nick's, last week's episode was on, and then we find out Jimmy Kim Alive that Rachel is a Bachelet. Extremely strange to announce it while she's still on the show. We have a feeling we know why they did it that way, though. The rumor is they want the men who are vying for Rachel to be more diverse

and hopefully have more black men. From a casting perspective, they need to get it out. Yes. That's the rumor unconfirmed, which is cool. Okay, fine. But they just handled it really weirdly. Is it harder for you to watch the show now that you know she hasn't won? Like, is it effective for you?

I like it. I wish sports was like this. You know the outcome. I wish I could watch the football playoffs knowing that like, oh yeah, Green Bay is going to lose in the final four. I don't really have to care about this game as much. It's tough because watching this at all requires, obviously, suspending a tremendous amount of disbelief.

And so when you're robbed of just that one shred of something that allows you to buy in, you're left in that situation where you're breaking down every word, the tone, the way everything is phrased, the look in someone's eyes. And I guess we do that with Nick and with everyone anyway,

but you had nothing else to look for. You're not actually watching that and saying, oh, like with Vanessa, the way Nick phrased the, do I have your blessing question to Vanessa's dad, was different than the way he phrased it with any of the other parents. And it was like, oh, we don't know if he's going to pick her so

we can parse that with the openness of not knowing. And you couldn't do that with the exchange with Rachel or Rachel's family. By the way, did you buy, wasn't Rachel's dad the one that couldn't be there? Yeah. He just didn't want to be on the show, I assume. Oh, I have business. Get the fuck out of here.

If I'm a judge, if I was, I wouldn't want to be on the show either. That's embarrassing. Chris Harrison, in his blog post, said that Nick and the dad met later that night. Yeah, he just didn't want to be on the show. So good for him. I respect that, honestly. There's no way if my daughter is on The Bachelor, a show that I'm very familiar with after X many years, and that guy's coming through my town to meet my whole family, like, hey, guys, I can't, I have this conference in Austin. I can't get out. Look at it.

It was ridiculous. There's no way he didn't meet Nick. I respect him for not lying to be honest, though. I assume that's why he wasn't there. And I respect it. I would have, so if I was the dad, I would have spent a lot of time grilling Nick about the other reality appearances. Nick, I did some Googling. You were on two other bachelors. You fell in love with both of them. And then, or bachelorettes.

And then you went on Bachelor in Paradise. What is it about you that would make me think that you're not in this to just for the 15 minutes of fame and just being the lead of a show? Why do I think you're in this for the right intentions? And Nick would have a real trouble answering that. Definitely. Definitely. He would just say, like, he would pull a hinky, but I believe in the process. Trying to figure it out.

Yeah, the evolution. But that's where Vanessa's mom, who I thought was very uncomfortable for the most part. But I was waiting for her to ask that one. All of the parents had some version of either challenging Nick directly to his face or saying to the camera, I didn't think I was going to like this guy. Like, I thought he was going to be a scumbag. And then he won me over because he's, like, handsome and has a nice beard. But they all had doubts. I think also like reality TV people, you expect them to be like really dumb or like completely

unself aware. And Nick is not, is neither dumb nor unself aware. I like Rachel's family. I like Rachel's family too. I'm ready for it to spend this season with them. Yeah. The next season. Good family.

She's sister. Will her dad be on the Bachelorette though? He's got a business trip in, uh, in Shreveport for an entire season. Yeah, he's a good question. It's a good question. I found this episode hard to watch because it's a big deal at Rachel's the first black bachelorette and it's awesome. and it's something they should have done so long ago.

But then this whole episode felt so exploitative of race. And the conversations about race were so uncomfortable that it made me nervous for her season. So do you think my guess is like when there's about six left, they're like, Nick, who you picking? It's like, I'm taking Vanessa. It's like, all right. So here's who the final four is going to be.

We're going to make Rachel the next bachelette. Even if you want to take her to three or two, she's got to go before the overnight. because, you know, we got to maintain some level of purity with her. You just got to go now. Get her out. Push her away. Your final three, Corinne, Raven, and Vanessa.

And he's like, I just want to have sex with Corinne. I don't even care if she's in the final three. Corinne's going to be there, right? That's all I cared about. A little, this isn't going to be a little spoilery. Are you guys comfortable with that? Yeah. She's in the Finland shot.

Yeah. Rachel goes to Finland. So Rachel moves on to final three. She does. She's in the... She's in the... She's in the... Oh, she's on.

Yeah, Rachel moves on. So Rachel's in. Vanessa's definitely in. 100%. You don't... There's no way she's not. So it's either Corinne or Raven who's out. You know, because you read all the stupid...

No, I don't. I don't. You've like Reality Steve on speed dial. I know, but I don't read his site in whenever he and I chat, it's a spoiler-free zone. I stay away from all this stuff. I would say Raven's out.

After that mud date, though? Mallory. Corinne's not out. Corinne bought him a sweater. I just like, the thing is Corinne, even though he really wants to sleep with her, I mean, he has to pick her. The only reason she's still around.

Are you sure Vanessa's going to win? Okay. Raven's definitely not winning. Right, right? Can we agree on that? Guys, Raven almost stabbed her ex-exhiver on the shoe. Like, she's not winning.

Yeah, but Nick likes it a sort of woman. Man, that was... The one thing we've never discussed is when that episode aired in Arkansas, the show cut away to a commercial when Raven described what she did to her ex and the woman he was shooting on her with. Yeah, did you know that?

Can she be on the challenge? That's a great question. Can't they cross over? I got to get her on a podcast. She's my top pick of this cast. Thanks for the idea. She'll be on Bachelor of Paradise. For sure.

Her and Jasmine. Also, like, you just... Corinne would be amazing. Corinne might have, like, she might be like the LeBrona Bachelor in Paradise. She may be like a 20-year career. I'd like her be the bartender. Like, I don't even want her dating.

I want her to be like, consulting with everyone. I want to know what happens when they're out of champagne with Corinne and how she handles it is one of the last. She goes to sleep. Wow, so Rachel made the final three. Rachel makes the final three, which is even weird that they announced. I'm stunned. I know.

But she does. We know she does. And it all but guarantees that she doesn't make the final two because they're not going to ruin the finale. Right? That would be so strange. So then we know how Fantasy Suites ends. I think there's a chance, though. The Rachel Nick thing has been so interesting and fun to watch all season.

and this was the first episode where I thought I figured out why it won't work out. Interesting. Which is that she's actually not that. Yes, I was going to say that too. And he's afraid of rejection. I totally agree. She's the only one. Because Raven did not say I love you and was like really in her own head about it and regretted it and consumed with like angst.

And she will say it. You know that the second she gets in front of him at the Rose ceremony. Yeah, I love you. Exactly. She'll like send a little, what's like the four-wheeler version of? a paper airplane. She'll like write it on a muddy glove and send it over them or something. It's on ATV. Yeah. Rachel's going to be the one who doesn't give him what he needs to hear. Right. And he's going to freak out. He's going to panic that he can't keep her around because

what he doesn't, what sound light if we heard in every episode? I, you know, I don't want to be the first bachelor to be rejected. So what if it's leading to Rachel rejecting him? That might happen. Like she quits. She's just like, I don't love you. What about this time line? Fantasy Suite. Door closes. 11 seconds later it opens. And he's hastily putting on his pants and she's like, I can't believe that just happened. And she's out.

Like 100 to 1 odds, 50 to 1 odds. I can see it. I can see it too. I actually don't think any of them are really into him. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I didn't mean it. One more chance. Let's give me 10 minutes.

The only one who loves him is Corinne. And Corinne's 24. The other three are all older, which I think is notable, too. Right. Couldn't bottom that sweater, man. And the jeans and the shoes. She was a whole outfit. She'll do anything for him.

Back to Rachel, though. Let's talk about Rachel's family. So I was very, so the father wasn't there. And then her sister Constance, can we get her as The Bachelor at? I liked her very much. She was a fan of Constance. She was so direct. It was amazing.

And so again, like, I don't know if I'm just like projecting it, but I just feel like election stuff is like seeping in when she was like referring to like the like the, like the, the climate that we're in. I was just like, we know this is like six or seven weeks in now, and this is like very close to the election, if not already happened. Right.

And so, like, I just feel like that date was probably the most influenced by like outside forces of the four. Possible. Good, good, older mom, too. Oh. The whole family was good. Great family.

Everybody was very well put together. They also, like... My favorite fan of the four. Me too, for sure. Also, even though the dad wasn't there, the rest of them seemed very ready to be on TV. More than the dad wasn't there. Dad was like, I'm not going on this.

I'll meet him after. I'll give him a nice firm handshake and make eye contact with them and make them uncomfortable. If Nick comes to you and asks for your daughter in hand in marriage when she's 18 or over, like what do you say in that moment? What's your response? I mean, I'd be creeped out.

It's like a 25-year age difference at that point. My daughter, though, this is her first bachelor season, doesn't see the part that maybe you shouldn't go on the bachelor? Like she sees the good in it. That's so sweet. Which I think is, you know, she's 11.5, she has no any better. But she sees this still as realistic and how the girls don't like each other, makes sense to her and all these little things. But I don't think she realizes yet that it's not a great thing if you're on this show.

I don't think it's a great thing that Vanessa's on this show. Vanessa, how can she not find somebody? I don't know. Is the Montreal dating scene like that much of a disaster? That's one you have to wonder why she's on the show. Exactly. And didn't you, the Juliet research you did on this? Yeah. She's been on other shows, right?

Red flag. Yeah, exactly. That's what she's down to move to Los Angeles. What were the other shows? It was like, it's like Blue Mountain State on Netflix. She has like four credits on her IMDB page. What do you think of that, Mal? Well, I thought the way he responded to you bringing that up, confirmed that he picked her, first of all,

because he really was willing to engage with every bit of criticism you raised, except for that. He was like, uh, yeah, like really clipped and short. you know, as you guys discussed last week, you don't go on the show if you're not interested in being on TV. It's just insane. It's insane to even indulge the delusion that people are there other than your 11 and a half-year-old daughter who can still see the pureness in it, the pureness and just wanting to find love. People do not go on reality television unless they're interested in being on TV and getting that exposure. And like, you know what? That's fine because Nick wants to be famous.

Nick wants to be on TV. Nick is handsome. You think so? I mean, I love Nick. I've never enjoyed, like, I love TV. I watch a lot of it. I've never enjoyed anything I've seen on TV as much as watching Nick.

Wow. Sling a muddy raven over his shoulder and then get down in the swamp. Oh, my God. We didn't get matter some water. So getting hot in here? It's going to happen. What just happened?

so sexy and the way the muddy, filthy water was cascading down his ass. I think he looks cheesy when he does that. You are to Nick as I am to Ben in time. I love it. It was just different. Different taste. Did he Nick sees Ben like, and I thought it was so admirable that Ben's like, yeah, started

working again. What else am I going to do? I'm going to be the bachelor for 20 years. And I think Nick hears that and just a chill goes down his spine. Yeah, I mean. He's like, he's not going back. He's not going back. Nick's looking at like a Johnny bananas type of run. Let's get a lot. a different show.

He's on a different show. He's on just... Spin off? Yeah, spin off. Or maybe he's eye on Chris Harrison's job. Let's be honest. Chris Harrison, not a factor this year. Not factor.

Really? Like, kind of stays down. All he does is voiceovers. Do you think that Chris Harrison, like, got a little big for his britches? No, I think he's pissed about it. I think he's probably pissed. You think ABC's like, why are we paying this guy a

a gazillion dollars? We just have Nick as the host next year? They don't. What they should do is get rid. They should do it look at the hills. How Elsie used to do the voiceovers and there was no host. The Bachelor should just do voiceovers. I really missed those LSI voiceovers.

I miss the hills actively. Every day. Heidi and I went for coffee, but what we didn't realize was something else was brewing. It was always, like, turn on playing words. It was a sunny day in L.A., but inside, things were getting very dark. It was so, like, basic narration devices. What was the date? We didn't talk about, Raven.

Just one thing. Can you imagine? Remember when Heidi lied to Spencer about being pregnant? Yeah. Can you imagine if Raven lied to Nick by getting pregnant in the fantasy suite or something like that? Can you imagine if someone did that in today's reality TV climate? It's one of the last things that hasn't happened on The Bachelor. I think that needs to happen.

The fake pregnancy, a miscommunication and maybe what was going on sexually in the fantasy suite hasn't happened yet. Cross signals on something. That one hasn't happened. That has happened? Andy said that her night with Nick in the fantasy suite was the most sexually off. awkward encounter of her life. But so what was her, was there a story or she was just ambiguous about it? It's in her book. I haven't read it.

And honestly, I only know about it. You read all the stuff. I know. I only know because Nick told me on a podcast. So wasn't it? Again, also have not read it. Wasn't it, I'm sure I have this wrong. Something about like he asked her like if you only had a certain amount of time left

on earth and you were going to have sex four times in X hours. Like how many of those times? would you want it to be, like, making love? And how many would you want to be fucking? Yes. And she was like... So I actually meant it's like a normal question. I kind of like it.

Also, it was like we were able to talk openly and communicate about these things. That's pretty weird. It's weird for your first night together. That's weird. If it's the first time if you're like in bed together, like literally in bed, that's a weird thing to say. Set the precedent that you can have an open dialogue about your love life. It's healthy. How jerk would you get for the one night in the fantasy suite?

Not at all. Because I think it's, you wouldn't get, you'd stay sober. Yes. Maybe like one. Would you do a couple shots over the shoulder? Maybe like one to take the edge off. I was going to say two drinks. One glass of 15-year-old single malt with Corinne's dad.

But it's like you're almost the horses that when they're trying to mate the two horses, that's kind of the vibe. Yeah. So you had nine hours to meet. The one thing I don't get about it is like I think they have days off in between. which you would need because presumably you stay up all night, right? And the fancy suite, you can't sleep. You got to make the most of that off-camera time together. Can we get super gross for a second?

Sure. Oh, bad. And she didn't have to ask about it. So what happens, like, Corin's waiting, right? This is like the NBA finals for her. What happens if her Aunt Mary comes to town? Oh, God. Does she get a redo for a week?

I think about this every. season. You do? Every season. Every season. I always think about it. So let's say Tuesday is the night, but then Monday, whatever the word takes over.

And she really needs until Saturday to be in the clear. Okay. This is what I would assume. First of all I bet 90% of these girls are on birth control. Exactly. So you just make sure you don't take the placebo ones. You keep going. But do you think you give them the possible fantasy sweet dates

like three, four months in advance? I feel like the girls probably start to realize as they get close to it and talk to a producer about it, and then they can probably work around that. But I'm sure... There's no way that producers don't figure that out, right? Well, we can't do it Monday to 23rd because Corinne said she's got that four-day window there. There's no good. No way Corinne's not in birth control.

There's simply no way. So I'm sure Raquel has been getting it for her for years. Yeah, so she probably just fucks with her cycle to make sure that it's fine. And that's like what people in college used to do, and they had long-distance boyfriends. So, okay. Yeah. See good information. Yeah. They want everybody at their best.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that would just really be horrible. I have, the Fantasy Suite is always the best two hours of the season. It's always great. I love reading the body language right at the day after when they're having breakfast. The whole, the cuddling, like whether it went back, you can always kind of tell. Will we have clarity after the Fantasy Suite? about whether or not Nick is good in bed.

Wow. Interesting question. We're not going to have clarity. We have to have one of the three come on. It's so, I think, I will find out who it is. Raven or Corinne, I would love to have. Rachel's not saying anything. No.

Also, she's in the ABC Press vortex now that she's not right. But they also probably told Rachel, like, you're going to, he's not picking. You're going to be the next bachelorette. Like, don't, you know, maybe don't go hog wild in the fantasy street. Don't go too crazy. Maybe rain it in. I don't, I don't know. Rachel is, she's definitely not into him.

It's such a good call. Like, she just, I think, like, wanted to be, but it's just not. I actually don't think Vanessa's added to him either. I think, and, like, Raven, I don't know. Raven's just, like, a caricature to me, so I can't really tell. I love Raven. I like her. I like her.

I really underestimated her. But there's no way Nick picks her. Like, there's no way. She took him to the grain bin. Raven's like a... She's a lifetime movie character where she ends up murdering her teacher and covering it up. and like she just feels like she should be in a lifetime movie. Definitely.

Has a vibe to her. Like there's, seems good on the surface, but there's something dark. Definitely. Lurking. There is like more of like an, she's more of an interior life than I would have guessed at the beginning.

Yeah. The whole thing with her dad was like just very sweet. And I don't know, I'm such a sap, but the moment when she was like no other man would walk me down the aisle. Like that was just, that was really nice. So,

really emotion. I love that. Raven finds out her father doesn't have cancer. Or his, sorry, his skin came back. clean. He's cancer-free now. It was very, very sweet. But if you're a family, don't you want to have that moment off camera? Now I felt bad that I said she was going to be in a

lifetime movie. She can do both. Her name is Raven. It's true. Did you spot the Raven like figurine in the back? Yes. In one of the bedrooms when she was talking with her mom? That was great. Great house to sort of break down. They had the large hogs banner on the door. Clearly, Arkansas

Shores her backs fans, no surprise. She did the Woo Pigsui Chant earlier in the season. Love her. I have a very important question. Just remove all the baggage you have from The Bachelor and everything we've watched. And we're having the next ringer party. Nick comes in with a date,

and it could be any of the four people left, and they're just walking through the door and your instant reaction is, oh, that's a couple. Does that couple make sense? Who makes the most sense of him walking through the door? The reason I ask this is, I feel like it's Corinne. I think it's Corinne too.

Corinne makes the most sense with who would be with Nick, And she'd just be, she'd immediately have champagne, and he'd be like immediately in that mode of, oh, I got to make sure Corinne doesn't go off the rails tonight. And I just think that's who he should be with. I don't think that's who he's going to pick. Corinne and Aaron Rogers, the bartender would get along really well. Oh, yes, right. Bill always has a bartender in his house. It looks just like Aaron Rogers.

Not full time, just for the party. Just for the party. I'd be worried if we actually had a bartender at that. Do you agree with party? Is that the one that makes the most sense? I don't see him with Vanessa. I kind of think Raven. Like, even though I don't think there's a chance he picks her, just when I, when I indulge in your thought experiment, that's who I think he has kind of the most natural rapport with.

And basically, I'm shocked by this answer. She seems like a real human being to me. Again, part of this is colored by the fact that we just, like, know definitively he's not picking one of the four women. Right. And the thing is, again, I love Nick. He's not fun. He's not actually fun enough to envision with him. It was fun at Bachelor in Paradise.

No, he wasn't. He sat sulking in his really sexy, like, little striped trunks. That was only for, like, two days. He became, like, the shaman of that show, though. No, even with his good, because he, like, lost out on what's her face? Amanda. What was her name? Amanda.

Lots to Josh. And then he got sulky, and then he started dating. This is really bad because I can't remember her name and have to use my personal identifier, which is Tits McGee. What was her name? Jen S. Yes. Jen S.

And he fairly ever, they just, like, sort of sat in the sand and, like, tried not to let the sand grabs bite their toes. That was the extent of, like, while being in Mexico on an all-expenses-paid vacation for three weeks of the fun that he had. And that's fine. Like, I would still- Mallory. Mallory's not a huge Nick's fan at this summer. This is part of the appeal to me. Because, like, as you guys know, my ideal activity is basically doing nothing.

So I think Nick seems chill and fun. And basically, like, he wants to be a camera. California guy, but he's just a Midwestern dude. He's obsessed with exercising. You want to do that with him? No, that seems bad. Like to watch him exercise? Preferably in a small.

You're out of your mind about Raven. Him and Raven are not the one. You're crazy. I just think they seem like a normal couple. At the end of the day, they seem like a normal couple. I see Raven with, who is the guy who got the aggressive guy who got not. Josh. No, no, the guy who, then he went to Bachelor in Paradise, got kicked out on the first show.

Oh, that guy. Oh, Chad. Chad. I see her, like, having, like, a really up and down Chad relationship. Oh, boy. A badger in Paradise. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. I like Raven. She seems fine. But her and Nick, like, what would they, like, what do they talk about?

Swamps? Four-wheelers. Pranks. They both love a good prank. I think Corinne and Vanessa would make sense a lot as a final, too, because Coran is, like, Nick's, like, sexual, crazy, freaky side. And Vanessa is, like, his serious, I want to talk to you and, like, let's get deep over a glass of Scotch side. They both have the same problem, though, which is they're the people that you pick if you go on a reality show to find a hot wife and not the people who seem like you'd be with in real life. Whereas Raven's like a real person. For some reason, I can't really imagine Nick with anyone. Like who in the history is, I'm so mean.

I like this guy. I really do. But who in the history of The Bachelor would you be like, yeah, maybe Nick should try her. I think you're wrong. I think him and Andy were perfect. Yeah, I thought Nick and Andy. That's who he should have been with. When she showed up at the end of this episode, I was like, I hope this is where it plays out.

That's who he should be with. There was not a single second. I don't feel like he should be with anyone on this show. I always thought Andy was going to pick him. I always liked Andy a lot. Can I tell you guys something? Kids you're wondering. She's beautiful.

This season might be heading toward Corinne making the final two and then not getting the ring and having the best meltdown in the history of the show. That would be great. They actually might have to put her on a stretcher and yell her out. That would be great. They're not a paramedics. There's no way he thinks her. I'm certain. So upset.

Oh my God. She'll be hysterically crying. Also, like, having to do, they always have the long walk to wherever the remote beach spot is. And as we learned in that one thing when Corinne went to see in the hotel room, like, she just can't walk in heels. No, she cannot. One of the worst heel walkers we've ever seen in our lives. Also, this is going to be a snow finale. Snow finale.

And Corinne only wears bikinis or nothing. Right. So what is she going to wear out in a blizzard? Well, they were trying on the cold weather clothes. They were trying on the cold weather. close. She's making it. Damn it.

She's making it. Well, I don't know. They're trying on cold mother clothes. They're going to Finland. So we think Raven's out. Rachel gets bumped before the final two. Yeah.

Because you can't give away that she didn't win in the final and then she makes the final two. We know who's going to win. No way. Yeah. She must be third. So it's going to be Corinne and Vanessa

in the final two. Unless Vanessa goes now. I think it's going to be Raven and Vanessa. You do? I do. I know I'm wrong. I don't. There's just no way he's picking Corinne, though.

There's just no way. Right. That's the thing. I think he knows that is that there's no chance to see her at the end. And so it's like at some point you have to actually eliminate the person that you're not going to pick. The move, if he doesn't really like any of them, is to pick Corinne just for like the three months of sex. She get, what, six weeks of where you're just on the phone, you get phone sex, and then you get the six weeks of the, and then. It's way longer than that.

It's from November to end of March. You really have to have a good phone person out. I've done a couple long distance back and way in the day when I was single. It's awful. It sucks. Like, hey, what's going on? What are you doing? It's like the worst.

I'm sure Nick is a big FaceTime user. That's probably like the bulk of there. FaceTime's been a big thing for The Bachelor. He'd have to be. He mumbles too much to only have a phone relationship. You'd be like, wait, where did you say you're touching me now? Who was I supposed to put that? I don't, I just, it just hard me to imagine Nick in a relationship.

I don't know what it is. And also does that view, of course. I love Nick. What did, what's, of all the dates they went on, what's the one you most wish you could go on with Nick? The mud one. I'm serious. That was hot. He looked great.

It's similar to the story you like to tell the time that you tackled the boy in the playground. That's right. Charles Simpson. Great memory. I have another important question for you guys. Nick's cried a lot this season. Yeah. I'm going to say over 10 times.

In the last two weeks alone, probably. He's teared up a lot. Just as a female, how does that make you feel? It's one thing to be sensitive, but it's another thing to just cry at the drop of a hat. Like, that's the rest of your life if you're with this guy. This guy's going to cry at movies. He's going to cry whenever there's tragedy. There's a lot of crying with Nick.

Is that a good thing? I like a man who is comfortable showing his emotions. I think it's really actually very sexy that he's comfortable. comfortable crying. Okay. However, I think he does it so often that it starts to, like anything else in life, it starts to lose its potency and its impact. I'm like, are you really that moved by what I'm saying?

Like, are you really torn up and sad about this? Or are you just kind of doing your thing? They almost feel like show tears at this point. Yeah, it doesn't seem genuine, so it's hard to really, like, give his tears a lot of credence. I don't like it. You're just like making it. First of all, you're on a reality show. You're just trying to find a wife

There's no reason to cry at any point during this show Unless something terrible happens to one of the contestants I can't think of a single reason why anyone would cry On the show he's got 12 people trying to you know jump his bones Once's the last time you cried Can't even remember Okay so you're just not a cry The last time I cried was watching The Bachelor last night

I cried yesterday too Me too Some people just cry a lot maybe Nick cries a lot But did did he cry in his prior seasons No Do you remember? I do not recall. Because he's so aggressive.

He's always like, he's like ready for the boxing match at all times. Right. My wife once cried during the entire span of time of a one-minute-long Michael Jordan Nike commercial. That came on during your game. The one when it was him like going backwards to when he was a kid. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how fast she can turn it on.

Like she can turn it on in 40 seconds. Yeah, wow. Nike's really good at commercials. We had, there was like a couple times where we rented movies. where I knew they were sad and didn't tell her. It's like, oh, this point, and just knowing what was going to happen

and it's phenomenal. Oh, my God. But some people just, you know. What's her take on the crying? She's a nicer person than I am. She's a little confused by Nick. I just don't think he really liked any of these women. Ultimately,

I don't think he does either. Ultimately, it's, okay, he likes Corinne. I think that's who he likes. He just wants to fuck her. It's really telling that Corinne's the only one who's definitely been like, I'm in love with you. That I don't think has happened

in recent memories. memory where only one of the four was like able to be like, I'm really in love with you. He's going to pick Vanessa because it's the safe choice. Yeah. And she looks the closest to Andy. To Andy. Yeah. Doesn't mean they're going to end up together.

No. No way. I would say that that there is not going to be a marriage, just time around. No. And can you imagine going on the show four times and then ultimately like just having nothing to show for it? I want him. I think in a year he's hosting this podcast with you.

I would love that. It's Nick and Juliet. It's weirdly. Considering one of the underlying themes of the episode was that like basic... So your earlier point, to circle back to the very beginning about how it was odd that this was structured as like a day in life, it was sort of a career fair for Nick, because he doesn't have a job or a profession. And so, like, it's weirdly... I want him to find love and I want him to be happy, but it's actually better for his future in his brand if he doesn't.

Because that's his identity. It's the guy who's like, right, always the bridesmaid, never the bride, always left at the altar, always coming up just short. So, like, the best thing that could possibly happen is that he proposes and is rejected again. Can you imagine? That'd be amazing. I mean, he's like the Buffalo Bills at that standpoint. It's in the snow. It would be perfect.

It would be incredible. I don't think that's going to happen. Just based on him being here, he seems like pretty happy. I just don't think he gets rejected. So you think when he was in Montreal, he also should have been taking job interviews? We're going to a found-o shop. Probably. I will say, if I'm Vanessa and I'm bringing someone home to my family, I'm going to lie.

say yes, we've discussed where we're going to live. Like, just lie and be like, like, make it seem like you have a better relationship than you do. I know it's only been six weeks. But, like, again, like, if Nick is really the pro that he claims to be, like, just check, check these boxes, you know? Have the conversation. Prepare for it. You know what a hometown visit's like.

He should be with Corinne. They belong together. Such a take. I think they belong together for, like, the summer. Yeah. Summer flame out. They should have been in paradise together. When you introduced him to my daughter during one of the great days of her last year.

Uh-huh. I made a Corinne joke. At that point, I didn't know she was going to make the... I thought she was getting voted off. Like, whatever, you had already seen the show. And he did kind of deflect it in a way. And then I was like, oh, shit, did he... Did she go further than I thought?

Yeah, the way he reacted, I was like, oh, it was like almost insulting somebody's girlfriend. Here's the thing. He does like her. I agree with you. He likes her. I don't think he wants to marry her, but he definitely just likes her. She would never have gotten this edit if he picked her. That's true.

Period. Great point. Right. She's been the punchline for the entire season. They're not going to do that to the first. person he picks. Do you like her more or the mental health counselor more? Taylor.

The one who went to two and one. For sure. I thought Taylor was horrible. Horrible. Taylor was. I had high hopes to her after episode one, but she just really let me down. I think she's going to bring a special level of poison to the Rose Reunion show, whatever that one's called.

The girls. The woman tell all. I think she's going to have a big bur up her butt. We're going to have to hear emotional intelligence a lot. That should be a drinking time. So many times. So many times. That's happening.

The girl who dressed like a dolphin is going. going to be wearing an outfit. Sure. Alexis. Locked that one down. I loved her. She was like, she's my MVP of the season. It all, the women are like more impressive than usual, but it's made for kind of a dull season because that's not that crazy.

Who made the fatal mistake of just not unleashing the hounds? So maybe the biggest breasts anyone's ever had on The Bachelor and kept them under wraps. And it's like, Astrid, come on. This is your calling card. Pretty sure she works at a plastic surgery office, right? Oh, is that true? Yeah. But one of the many things that was charming about,

Alexis is that she freely admitted that she had breast implants. They celebrated her boobs one year anniversary. That was funny. I loved it. I love Alexis. I can't wait for her to be in paradise. She's amazing. All in on her.

Oh, yeah, she's a lot. Yeah, for sure. Jasmine would be like a sad bachelor in paradise. Because I think she's rehashing the mistake she made, and she's obviously like, I wasn't me. Her social media. I didn't turn it up. She seems like she's pretty tight with a lot of the other women. It's interesting to see who's friends with each other.

Another thing that really turned me on a curtain is that I think that the other woman actually like her. I don't think she's hated the way that she's been made to see. How does Jasmine lose a dancing competition? It's a really. That's a great question. Very upsetting. Backstreet Boys dancing. It was like just called in for Jasmine to advance and she blows it. Really bad for her.

That was bad. How do you, I mean, you can't show your face around the dancing community ever again. I don't think she can come back. She's got to get another job. Totally. Just switch professions. Maybe she could also work in a plastic surgery office. Who knows? M.A. with that choke that's your own. Did they use the whole budget on the Backstreet Boys and

had nothing left for any of the other shows. Very strange here. Very, very strange. So they stay in L.A. for three or four episodes. Then they go to New Orleans, right? That was the next stop. Wisconsin. Wisconsin as well.

That was a mistake, though, yeah. They were supposed to go to Charleston. They had a reroute because of a storm. And then they were in the Bahamas. And then they went to St. Thomas. Right. And then. And Bimini.

Right. Bimini, I looked it up. St. Thomas is like, you're not even trying. No. All time bad. All time bad. Real World season. All time.

Yeah. St. Thomas. St. Thomas is like, it's the bachelor. Take me to St. Bartz. And then Bimini is close to Florida, like quite close. So if it was like really a desired spot, like we would know people that had been there and like are looking to go there because it's like the same as going to Miami basically. Take me to Turks and Caicos.

Take me to Watt, Neo. Yeah, or like even St. Bart's or something like that. Anything. St. Thomas. I know. In real world was there. You can't go to St. Thomas. Brad Womack's finale was in South Africa.

Remember with him and Emily Maynard his second time? Nick is not even getting close. close to that. He's still, like, you know, he's just just offshore, basically. I think this is Chris Harrison's last season. I feel like they're phasing him out. They really... It's like Andrea Godaal with the Warriors. I think there's a game plan. I see what they're doing. How much of it is about the parody on Unreal? How badly has that hurt him? I think it's been tough. Tough for him. Very tough. It's bad.

Oh, to the point that he might need to come on this podcast. I'd love to have him. Talk about his pain. Do some imagery up. His pain from Unreal. I'd like for him to be fired. or like release, so then he can come on here and, like, you know, with an axe to grind, and we can, like, really get into it. I never want to advocate somebody losing their job, but if they replaced Chris Harrison, it would be one of those things where we would all go, oh, my God, they were, and then it'd be like,

oh, all right, let's see. It would actually add a freshness and make the show seem a little less formulaic. May I make a suggestion? I was going to say Nick. I think Nick would be a great. Nick would be a great host of The Bachelor, just a great host. Just don't pick Jared from Bachelor and Paradis. Oh, my God. Over into Jared.

God. That guy. The obsession with Jared is just the biggest mystery ever in the bachelor. You had actually the virgin on you. You asked her, right? Yeah. What'd she say? Like, if they're together or whatever.

No, about why she liked him so much. Oh, she just was like, she made it to him as like some like ineffable quality you only understand by being around him. I don't know. I don't get it. He's a masshole. Like, no, no shots, but like, that's what it is. No shots.

You got him a asshole. But like he's a type, you know? It's not like he is like, you know. Some rare supermodel. I've never been more confused by what I see with my eyes looking at a person and then hearing other people talk about a person. It's so confusing. Maybe it's something about the angles of his face. Just like the way light refracts and like, you can't see on TV how handsome he is.

Something. There's a vibe of Adam that people like. Terrible hair, terrible facial hair. It's kind of like non-y on the challenge. A weird like snaggle tooth. I'm being mean now, but like Nani must be beautiful in person. Nani. She's very pretty on TV.

I think she's pretty, but like, My intel Anani is very striking a person. The way people or the men respond to her, she obviously just has something special. But similar to Jared, I guess. Yeah, I guess so. She's tall, too. Don't sleep on tall woman on shows like that sometimes. It's like striking.

You know, she retired from the challenge. She's a bartender in Chicago now. Wow. She'll be back. Really? Yeah. She'll be back. I'm sure of it.

Are we done? I think we hate it all. Thanks for coming on, you guys. Do we have any predictions for the fantasy suite, the great two hours of the year. Whatever it is, Nick's going three for three. I guarantee it. Three for three and four minutes.

Three for three and four minutes. Guys, I think Nick is probably lovely in bed. I know. Nick, we love you. Nick, we love you. Thanks, Bill. Thanks, Mel. And thank you, Frambridge.