The Press Box - Ep. 270 ‘Bachelor Party' With ABC’s SVP of Alternative Programming, Rob Mills

Episode Date: March 2, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman is joined by Rob Mills, ABC's senior vice president of alternative programming, to discuss being at the Oscars (1:20), this week’s episode of 'The Bachelor' (9:00), the top five 'Bachelor' contestants (18:00), and the decision to pick Rachel as the next Bachelorette (36:10). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode is brought to you by the Andy Greenwald podcast. This week, Andy talks to Lena Dunham, the star of HBO's TV show Girls. I love that show. You can listen to this by subscribing to the watch podcast at iTunes.com slash the ringer or wherever you got your podcasts. Welcome to Bachelor Party. I'm Juliet Litman. I'm a day late with this podcast this week, but I swear it is not a dollar short because I've got a great guest. I've got the SVP of alternative programming at ABC Rob Mells.

Welcome. What's happening, Juliet? So you cover a variety shows. late night specials in reality. The easiest way is anything that does not have a script I cover. Okay, so that includes the Oscars, which just happened. Just happened, yes. That includes Dancing with Stars, which

there's news we have to discuss there. There's so much news this week. And it includes The Bachelor. I know. And The Bachelorette, obviously. So it's everything. This is like the hat trick of like... I nabbed you a good week. You gnav me a good week, exactly. I'm proud of my timing here. I'm coming back every week now. Thanks for our sponsor, Miller Light. Oh, yeah. So the sponsor of the ringer.com

homepage. God bless them. And we have a couple that we open. Tell everyone what time it is. It is not even 1 o'clock. We're feeling loose. It's good.

Who knows how this podcast will go? It's going to go crazy. I'm just so happy to have you here. Let's just do five minutes on the Oscars. Okay, five minutes on the Oscars. Yeah. Then we'll get to The Bachelor. Yes.

So where... I assume friend of the ringer, Jimmy Kimmel. Yes, great friend. She's a great. Yeah, Jimmy did a great job. She did an amazing job. Okay. I'll just ask you a couple quick questions.

Yes. Was the tour bus situation staged? No. Oh, God. If you know Jimmy at all, you know, everything with him has to be authentic. Like, it was true. As a matter of fact, I don't know if you read this whole thing like Gary, the star of the whole bit was actually. On parole?

On parole, basically, yes. So we didn't even get like releases, which normally you would do. Wow. Simply because Jimmy, like, this was a real tour bus of people. Would you do that staged? That stunt again? I think it's been done once. I don't know that you would do it again.

Okay. Jimmy's not a big guy for repeating stuff. Also, by the way, next year, if you have a tour bus that comes in, they're going to be like, oh, I wonder if we're the Oscar tour bus. If I think we should do a tour bus thing and have it stage so they think they're going to the Oscars and then just never take them there. Right, take them to like the dairy farm where they have the date on the bachelor. Exactly. We're taking you to the Razzies. Detour.

Yeah, exactly. Where were you for the best picture flub? I was in the... I don't consider it a flub. I consider it the greatest moment on Oscar history. Yeah, I mean, it's great TV. Because honestly, if Moonlight won and it went as planned, you'd be like, oh, Moonlight One, whatever.

Right. You know, no. Great. Deserved it. Fine. Great. Whatever. Now everyone's going to remember that moment.

Right. I was in the truck where we, where everything happened. I don't know if you ever met in a production truck for live TV. Okay, next time you come to one of our shows. After Paradise, you're always in the green room, I know. Or wherever it was. Wherever Ben is. You were always stalking Ben's.

So you don't know. So you're in a production truck and you're watching everything. That's where you have your time, you know, whether you're over or under, just everything's going on. You're laying everything. So I'm in the truck. We see, she announces La Lala and the cast all comes up. Did you know that was wrong?

No, no, no. Nobody knows. The only ones who know this, as opposed to, like, say, Dancing with the Stars where you get the results. Less security. Less security. Those results are very, everyone knows. I see. So then had that.

happened like at dancing. Immediately we would have said, oh my God, he said the wrong name. It's something else. We need to stop this. Get in his ear. Here, the account's in the only one said, no. And so we're sitting there assuming, I'm packing all my stuff up, getting ready to leave. And then I heard on like one of the stage managers, you know, he walked in.

You just hear, it's the wrong movie. Moonlight one. And I'm like, and I'm thinking to myself, oh, that's a really, like, I thought it was a joke. Like, I'm sure it's not true. And then as it keeps going on, we're like, oh, no, it's not a joke. And then you're watching it unfold the whole thing. And what was shocking to me, too, was I'd read this years ago because there was always that urban legend that Marissa Tomey didn't win. Right.

That Jack Palance had read the wrong name. And there was a thing like, well, the accountant, Pricewaterhouse Cooper's immediately put out this thing. They said, no, no, no. That never would have happened. If Jack Palance read the wrong name, an accountant would have come in it immediately and said, this is not what happened. That is not what happened on Sunday night Well, it was pretty fast, but not fast. It was fast but not fast.

I think also because of all the awards, too, that's the one where there's like 20 people on stage. So many people. Right in the middle of the jubilation and everything. That was just wild. It was wild. I can't believe it. And how great, but Jimmy, by the way, too, again,

jumps right in. Yeah. He was amazing. He did a great job. He's a consummate host. I understand why you want him to do it. Oh, yeah. And he, yeah, he did a great job.

He was able to inject humor, but not to where it was at the expense of anyone. Right. Just he's Steve Harvey. Totally. By the way, I also would like to say, too, so we're in the middle, where the show's finished. Two months said, we're in the dressing room. Adam Coral is giving a toast to Jimmy and we're all. And then my phone rings in it, because we do some shows of them, so he has my number.

It's Steve Harvey calling to say, I want to be involved in the show next year. Please, I'm involved in the show next year. It'd be amazing. Wait, so the Miss Universe is ABC2? No, that was Fox, but he does a family feud for us and he does a new show that it's coming up. So I know Steve really well. Got it. But like, I'm like, in the middle of handling, like, a bunch of different things right now.

Steve, we can talk about next year's show, like, maybe tomorrow or six months for now. Wow. But, yeah. Well, now it's like he's a pioneer in making mistakes. Exactly. That's right. He really is. He's the trailblazer of, but the difference is that was Steve's mistake.

Yeah. Or Steve has said it wasn't. It was, you know, somebody else they told him something wrong. I mean, this was one of those things where it was probably the best possible scenario for us where it was, human error. It was this accountant's mistake. It was not any of the producers. It wasn't Jimmy. So, then it was great. Then it was a great live TV

television. Rividing moments. That's like what you live for in the live TV biz, right? You do. There's no point in, there's nothing I hate more than live TV just for live TV's sake and it's just all choreographed perfectly. But this was a testament to why you do live TV. Right. It was pretty wild. I mean,

no one will forget it. No one will forget it. I think many more people will see moonlight now than they would have otherwise. I mean, also like Moonlight's a great movie. Moonlight's a great movie. It doesn't have a good movie. It doesn't want. Rala and also won, Damien won best director.

Emma won best actor. They really shared the wealth this year. Totally. I think it worked out perfectly. Everyone has been incredibly gracious. Like at first it was like the Jordan Harwitz from Lolly. Oh, yeah. But like Barry Jenkins has been like amazing as well.

They're all. They've all been, no, it's really wonderful. That's what at first. But when you see, because I will say when I'm looking at Warren Beatty, looking at that envelope three times, I was like, oh, Hacksaw Ridge must have won. I was like, literally that was like that. He doesn't want to.

I loved Hacks are Ridge, by the way. I haven't seen it. I know. People have their personal things again, Mel Gibson, and I'm not going to hold that. You know, I totally get that. But I was like, oh, he doesn't want to hand an award to Mel Gibson. That's got to be what it was. It seemed like Brie Larson didn't want to do that, didn't want to give it to Casey Affleck at the Golden Globes.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. I got to watch that. I digress. Yes, exactly. All right. It's talking by The Bachelor. Let's talk about the much more important show.

This is while you're here. We have our own live event coming up on The Bachelor 2 in two weeks after the final rose. Right. And it is going to be crazy. You should let that go a little more haywire. I've been to that. We're going to, yes, you've been there. You haven't been to some of them.

No, this one, our goal is to go a little haywire. Okay. I want to come back to that. There's going to be some crazy. Come to this one. Okay. I think this one's going to be really good. And let's discuss that at the end of this pod.

But let's talk with this week's episode. Andy was on the show. Andy was on the show. What do you get from having Andy come back? Like, what's the value? As we learn Monday night, not much. No, I think this one actually was good. There are sometimes when, where this was used to the best effect,

I don't know how long you've been watching the show. For quite some time. Okay, so I don't know if you remember Jason Mezzanick's season. Of course. And this was when people didn't really know what was going to happen on the show. And there was this whole thing where in our super tease, we had Deanna come back. Sure. And we put it in, and it's not until the very end of the season, but people were like,

oh my God, when is she going to come back? What does she want? she clearly, because it was when she'd broken up with Jesse, the snowboarder. Right. And everyone loved Jason at that point. He was like the single dad, everyone loved. I still love him. He's a great guy.

Sure. And he may have done Melissa, but she ended up okay. It's like the Oscar fiasco. Everyone ended up great. It was totally fine. So that was like amazing. Even though, and then the scene came and it was like nothing. It was like, I just want you to pick, you know, follow your heart and do all that.

But this was, you know, a little bit of the same. but this was interesting because there was the whole thing of, okay, now you're going into fantasy suites. Right. And you called me out for making love what I wasn't in love. Yeah, there's a lot of sex talk to speak. That was an interesting. There was a lot of sex.

And I think Nick is really responsible for that because I think before that, once he blew the lid off, you know, that it actually does happen in the fantasy suite. Now it feels like we have the morning after scenes now. We see the meeting breakfast in bed. I love the morning. afters. Oh, they're so good. But those didn't happen until Nick, you know, like Nick was,

Nick was the one who really, again, plays a trail. It's true. He's, he's a leader in the Bachelor space. He really is. Caitlin's season also was very, because of Nick. Which Nick? Because of Nick. No, that. Sexually oriented. Yeah, it's always shocking to me. The one show Bella was not allowed to watch was Bachelor in Paradise. The one, the one franchise that Nick did not have a sex scandal on. It's true. I didn't do anything there. Bachelor at his two seasons, totally. broiled and sex scandals. What's like the relationship like with Andy between the show and ABC at this point? It's good. It's friendly. I mean, as we can talk about later, as you've seen, there's some, there's some rough waters with some of the other ones like Caitlin. Right.

But I think Andy, we have a really friendly relationship. I was there that night in Brooklyn, as you could see, freezing night. Very edgy. And like a half, half finished hotel, too. Yeah, so what hotel was that? The William Vale in Brooklyn? Yeah, that's like hip now. I've heard of it a few times. I think it's just finished. I don't know if people were able to stay in. Because our control room that we were in was like this weird. It was like on the 18th floor and it was like a garage or something, this unfinished thing. So maybe some of it is finished. I think it is done.

I'm attending a wedding where they have a lot of hotels at the window. Okay. Okay. Hopefully it'll be done. I don't know when the wedding is, but hopefully you'll be staying in a room. Well, yeah. It's when do you decide to like go to a filming location? Because I know that you don't always go.

You have? Oh, me, myself. It just depends on if my schedule works. out. So this was one, we were filming something in New York, so that worked out perfectly. I see. Bachelorette, that finale when they go to the exotics and everything, that's always hard because it's right around when we have what's called our upfronts and pilot

screenings. So that's difficult. It just depends. Bachelor finale is a little bit easier because that's right before Thanksgiving. So, yeah, so it's much easier then. Right. I was like, okay, Andy's back, but I felt she was a little too eager to talk to next. She was just like really playing it up.

And she was like, I think we're going to need a glass of. whiskey for this. This conversation calls for whiskey. Yeah, it was a little too on point. And I was like, maybe Andy should have stayed a lawyer. Yeah. Oh, you think? Yeah, absolutely. I was having to see her, though. I thought it was interesting, known to get a, like, when would we ever have gotten a post script to that after the final rose? And clearly they haven't really seen each other. Right. You know, I'm sure she didn't want to talk to him after all that. And then Nick did an appearance on Kimmel with Andy and Caitlin. Did you decide to do that because it went well when she came that night? No, that was just a Jimmy, thought that would be really great to have them all together. Interesting. It was entertaining. Yeah. It was.

This was a, there was certainly much more to talk about than if it was I don't know, like Ben Higgins and Jojo. Right. And it's like, you know, oh, you know, maybe just don't say I love you to two people because then you have to break up with one of them at the end and that's her. I mean, this was, okay, so what are you going to do? Are you going to have sex with these women?

Right. Like, what are you going to do? Right. It's interesting. And then Andy went on her, what she called her feminist rant about, um, Well, you should sleep with them if you want to. That's my feminist rant. Yeah, I mean, it is interesting. Like, sex has changed on this show. It's not as taboo anymore.

Yeah. And it's also, I mean, if there's any question about that last, this week's episode, certainly answered it with. No, it's not even like, it went to like, okay, now there's sex of the face. So now it's the, you know, as we saw with Raven, I mean, they talk about their previous sex lives. Sure. And like, yeah, exactly.

It's, it really changes it. Yeah. As a producer, like, was there, were you conscious, like, oh, we've kind of cross a threat. now we can change the way this is discussed on the show. Yeah, I think definitely, absolutely. So like, and knowing that this is, you know, you know a lot about these people, you've lived with them for whatever it is, eight weeks at this point. So they, their deepest, darkest secrets are out there.

Right. So it is, well, this would be really interesting. Sure. And of all the people that would seem to be up to the challenge of this, it would be Nick, you would think. Yeah, definitely. He's definitely had the experience. Yeah.

Also, all the women who are left are much more prepossessed, are like, very like self-possessed. Yeah. I think. So it makes sense. I think of all the people would be raving. Sure. But even like Rachel and Vanessa, I feel like I respect them in a way

that I often don't with other Bachelor contestants. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Nick got a good crop of girls. He did. Well, I think that's because it was Nick. And he was so about like just anyone, anyone. He likes intelligent women. He likes good, you know.

It would have been harder if it was a different type of person who, you know, sometimes just wants, I don't know, all different. I'm not going to name names here. Okay. So close. I'll wait until the next amount of light for that. So Andy came and she left.

I was like, 15 minutes of Andy. Didn't need that, but fine. I understand it. I thought that was interesting. You know, you got a few good lines on a Nick.

You know, I'm not going to just get engaged just because I'm the bachelor. Yeah. I'm not going to do it because I feel I have to. It's character building for Nick. That's true.

It was. It was good. And he got to apologize for saying that for, I don't think it was upset. He said it, but it was certainly upset that then the reaction. The reaction.

the reaction that she had to deal with. Yes. He does seem to... I would have liked to see that I'm talking about Josh, actually. Yeah. That would have been an interesting conversation. And they both hate Josh now.

They both hate Josh now. It would have been a great conversation. That would have been a really good conversation. Nick also loved, by the way, getting that thing into, oh, last time you came to a hotel room. Yeah. You were dumping me. Now on The Bachelor.

Nick laments how much it's discussed that he's been on before, that he's been done before, but he brings it up so much. Every time. No, he loves talking about it. And you know when he's really going to love talking about? two years from now. Right. Then he's really going to want to talk about it.

Yeah, absolutely. So Andy leaves, and then it's the roast ceremony, and we go from four to three, and Corinne leaves. And I think that's a surprise. Like, I think that was... I was surprised how many people were... You know, again, I know what's happened. Sure.

I was really surprised. I think that was the reaction a lot of people had. Yeah. They were really surprised that Corinne had gone home. Well, he just seems so attracted to her. Yeah. And you'd think of all the times he'd be like, finally, like, I've been a really good guy. Like in past times, when somebody comes to my bedroom and says, you know, let's, you know, get it on.

Let's do it. Yeah. He would totally be like, yeah, absolutely. Why not? And it's like he was respecting the show almost. He was totally respecting the show. I know, exactly. He actually reinstituted rules when there used to be no rules.

I know. And so he's waiting. And you'd think absolutely that he's waiting for this. And clearly he seemed, you look at the way his hands were all over in the bouncy castle. Yeah. You look at, you know, with the whipped cream and everything. Like he was dead. down for all this stuff.

Sure. And even when he was saying goodbye to her, it was so much more genuine than many of his other goodbyes. Like when he was like, you didn't do anything wrong. No, I think there's a genuine affection for her. I also think there was not the,

I'm going to get married to her. Yeah. Clearly, he saw off in that hometown. It was like, you're going to be a kept man. Yeah. And you're going to have olives, like, shove down your throat. And he clearly did not like the olives.

But Raquel was there to be like, eat the olives, trust me. Who would you have thought, though, if Corinne was going home, this was also addressed to see, who would you have thought, would have gone home then? Raven.

I thought Raven. Raven, interesting. I've heard a lot of Vanessa's. Really? Yeah. And then there's also Rachel because she's been announced as Bachelorette, so you know she's going at some point.

We're obviously going to talk about that in depth in a few minutes. Vanessa, I think there's a backlash against her. I don't completely know why. I like her. I think she came off. I think the hardest thing sometimes is when you have that first date early on and you come off so good. Yeah.

That then it's like, it's hard. Then she showed something different, was a completely honest reaction of, this is very hard for me to have a guy dating on the women. It's like, that bitch. When people, it is interesting. It's like you kind of, the one thing you can't admit to feeling is like difficulty. Real feelings, yes.

Yeah, like if it's like difficult for you. How dare you think this is difficult? Right. Don't you know what you signed up for? Vanessa is so Canadian to me. It's so funny. I used to watch Degrassi a lot. Oh, yes.

Totally. She would have been amazing on DeGrassey. She would have been great. DeGrassey Gold. She would have, like, did you watch that show? Oh, yeah. Do you remember Paige Michael Chuck? Yes, exactly.

She should have played Paige, and then Paige would have stayed around for longer. Yes, that's exactly right. But she, there's something about, like, Canadian TV shows that when they are brought to the States, show on like, you know, ABC family used to have Falcon Beach and like to those crazy shows that I botched for whatever reason. And there's something that's like so, it's like same, same, but different. And Vanessa is like that to me. She's like so same, same but different.

Yeah. But I'm like, yeah, there's something ineffable about her that's just so Canadian. I can't get over it. I know. Exactly what it is. Every time she speaks, she sounds like Celine Dion in a weird way. She has a weird French-Canadian accent.

Yeah, I really, I like her. Oh, I love her. I love her. She's great. I actually love, to your point, I actually love all these girls. Yeah, they seem pretty great. Even Corinne, like, I thought she was not like the,

I never thought of her as the villain. I've come around on her. I can tell people like her, which is how it changed my mind. But you can see to, she really wasn't made for this show. She was made for Bachelor of Paradise. I mean, Paradise. And I email that to you on the first episode. Yes, exactly.

No, she is going to be the. Star of Paradise. Yeah, absolutely. So where would you rank her in the pantheon of great Bachelor contestants? Is she top 10 for you? She'd probably make the top 10. Definitely not top five. Whoa.

Can you rail off your top five? I mean, Tierra, definitely. Courtney Robertson, simply because Courtney Robertson saved an entire season. She put that season on her. But you know those, like when Adrian Peterson took the Vikings so playoffs, that was Courtney Robertson that season. I'm telling you because we were like, we looked at those second episode ratings I remember would be like, oh my God, we're dead in the water.

Nobody likes this guy. Right. He was the first. I remember the president of ABC at the time, too, is like, we can't put this guy in a poster. He's too, he's not good looking enough. So he had this weird poster with a woman like, you know, picking or the pedals off a rose.

Oh, yeah. That's how bad. That was a bad season. So Courtney Robertson, absolutely. I have a personal affection for this girl. All that people don't, but Erica Rose. Oh, Erica Rose. I love Erica Rose.

Erica Rose got reality Steve into legal trouble. That was also. another reason that was great too. That was fantastic. You probably can't comment on that from what I read about that settlement. No comment, but boy, that was, yeah, she was fantastic. That was a byproduct. I also love her anyway.

And I love documenting her pregnancy, too. Oh, my God. She was amazing. She, so this is another question I've been wondering. Like, when Corinne comes through the casting pool, what about her or what about someone like Erica Rose stands out and we're like, yes, we need that person on the show? Erica Rose, like you knew. I mean, I remember she came on and she was very, she.

She was who she was. Corinne was not that way. You never know. It's like Chad last year. It's how like Chad came in and was like, oh, man. I love meat. Oh, yeah, I love meat. Exactly.

Oh, are you eating that turkey? Come here. No, I mean, he was, that was a guy who had literally just lost his mom. I mean, it was like he came in and he was very, he was not the guy that you saw in the show. Interesting. You never, you just never know. I mean, I remember we finished night one of Jake Pavelka season. And our executive producer at the time goes,

you know who I think would be a really great bachelor's, Roslyn. And then he calls me two days later and he's like, I gotta call you Rosalind, FTA producer. We're kicking her off tonight. Oh my God.

You never know. If you start to plan those things, yeah, exactly. If you start to plan those things and say, oh, this person is this or this person's that, I mean, you sort of know some of the tendencies, but if somebody comes in and says, you know, yeah, I'm really like,

I'm going to be the Corinne of the season or I'm going to be, you know, Courtney Robertson, that's a red flag. They never make it on the show. Right. Because then, like, you just know, then they're not there for the right reasons. They're not there for the right reasons. Exactly.

That's interesting. Well, again, we'll come back to that. We talked about Rachel and her being The Bachelorette. I was sad to see Corinne Go. At any point, were you, like, did anyone encourage Nick to keep her around because she was such good TV? At that point, you really can't.

Because this is where it's like you don't want to screw up the entire the entire process. I mean, I remember Sean Lowe was very close to getting rid of Catherine at hometowns. That's wild. But, you know, it was like, it was between her and Desiree. And then look, they're married with a kid.

They're a great couple. They are, they are, certainly, I mean, all of our bachelor couples are great. Yeah. Again, I don't want to put anyone down. No favorites for you. But they are fantastic. Yeah, they seem really happy.

So you just, you never know. At this point, you really can't. I mean, early on when there's 18 people, people, you certainly can say, okay, who do you really like? And, you know, and there are certain people that they also really hate and, like, I'm not, I don't care, I'm not keeping this person. Nick was obviously very uncomfortable with Liz the entire time she was around. Yes. She could say, he could not wait to cut her. Yeah. So that was, that was great. That burned out very quickly. That was quite obvious. Yes, exactly. I feel, I feel sad, I feel sad for Liz. I just feel like.

She figures very well in women to law. So you'll see her Monday night. All right. Great. Yeah. Cool. The other one would be good in paradise, I think. Liz? Yeah. Sure. What do you think? I need her to get drunk and talk about when and how she got that massive tattoo on her back.

I just need to know the whole story. That's a good one. Okay. So maybe she would tell it sober. Maybe she, I mean, I'm assuming she would need to be drunk, but maybe not. I think we'll make that happen in paradise. Okay. Great.

I'm looking forward to it. You're Juliet from Los Angeles as a question. Yeah. I get that massive back tattoo. Exactly. But she's been dying to know. Yes, exactly. Okay.

And then it's on to Finland this week after we're saying. On to Finland, yes, exactly. Is this the first cold weather location for Fantasy Suites? No, remember we went to Switzerland for Ben Flannock. Oh, right. I forgot about that. Yeah, that was good too. Okay.

I was there for that. That was amazing. So fun. What's the advantage of going to a cold weather location? Well, the thing is, you know, we get a lot of tradeouts. So it's, you have to look at sort of what's on the table. Got it. And this was, you know, this was interesting.

We hadn't done it in a while. It would look good. And it was one of like the three places. Though Northern Lights is a great touch. Northern Lights was amazing. All done in post-production, by the way. Never saw them. But even for him to be like the glass, there's a glass ceiling

and close we see the Northern Lights. What a great touch. Wasn't that great? I know. That was really... That was fantastic. That added a lot to the romantic feeling. We'll be right back with more Bachelor talk.

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So go to sunbasket.com slash Bachelor today and get your first three meals free. That's sunbasket.com slash Bachelor to get three healthy, easy-to-prepared meals for free. Seriously, zero dollars. Sunbasket.com slash bachelor. Okay, now, back to Rob. So which producer knows in advance that Raven is going to tell Nick that she's never had an orgasm? That has to be discussed before. Yeah, I mean, well, everybody has what's called a handler.

And at the beginning, it's like, you know, you're assigned to like six bachelor or bachelors. So it's whoever that person is, that's your personal person that you, almost like a psychotherapist, where you're talking everything through and everything and you're saying this. So someone knew So someone knew Yeah absolutely I see I mean as you saw

She was clearly She was willing to talk about it She was willing to talk about it I mean here's the one thing though We just saw just to go back a week We saw Hoxi Arkansas Clearly not a hotbed of activity A grain bin

There's got to be like only like 28 guys there Like everyone has to know Now who this guy is Oh absolutely Every woman now I mean don't you feel bad for that guy The biggest loser of this season Is Raven's ex-boyfriend

100% I'm never gonna get over She's a cheater who can't even satisfy a woman. Yeah. I'm never going to get over to the story, she told, about going back and beating him with a shoe. Yeah. So, interestingly enough, it's been reported that when that episode aired in Arkansas, they cut to commercial during Raven's story time. Yes.

Why did that happen? That happened. It was, and I looked into this and I talked to our affiliate relations and they swear, the way they told it, I know this is true. They said, it was complete human error. That is crazy. Count on Sunday night. This guy just pushed, it did it. It was a complete accident.

But the fact that, no, it was, Raven reached out to us and was like, there's no way this was an accident. Yeah. Right at that part of the story. That's very hard to believe. It is. It's hard to believe. But they swear to me, and they were very sincere about it.

That's crazy. Is it like, crazy? Is it like a redo? Like, do they air it or something? No, it's just like Arkansas. Do you think there hasn't been, except for Raven, there's not been an outcry from anyone that really wants to see it. So if we heard from enough people, maybe we would have rebut.

played it. If I'm the guy, I'm thrilled that happened in my home state. I don't know. I'd rather have had Monday night's episode be censored than this. I guess so. I guess. I think that's much worse. It's certainly I don't know. They're both bad. They're both bad.

One, yeah, I don't know. I feel for him. He just took the biggest L. Yeah, he really did. I don't know who this guy is now, but if we were wondering, like, should we bring him out to have like what the women tell all or after the final rows where he gets to defend himself? Yeah.

You know, I mean... Did she want that? I don't know. Would she have been against it? She seems incredibly open. Like, just seems like... Yeah, I think she'd be fine. I get why she's a good reality TV.

Or she's good for Nick, at least, because she just seems like she goes with whatever. So she's probably like the easiest relationship he has left of the three, if I had to guess. Yeah, I think that's right. Well, we know the hardest. With Rachel. Yes. No, no, Vanessa, don't you think? Yeah, I mean, it seems...

Well, I don't know. We haven't seen the hometowns. It seems like... if the Rachel one was, like, challenging, and he wasn't feeling it, then that's why you send her home, I guess. That's true, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, Vanessa seems like a challenging woman in a great way. Yes, that's right. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. There's, like, there's something to her. Exactly. And that's why, I mean, that's why I really like her. And I hope she wins because she would not be a good bachelorette or a good bachelor in paradise. Like, this is her show. You don't think she'd be a good bachelorette.

That's interesting because I remember there was this outcry for Charlene, remember from Juan Pablo season, the opera singer. Canadian also as well. I don't think she would have been good either Yeah, most people said that But it would have been different Yeah You find that different works for this show Every night

Like it's good to Follow like a great batch Like a Sean with like a Juan Pablo Right Take a left turn Sure You know because it's hard when you just do Something that's sort of the same

Would you have Juan Pablo on again? Oh, in a heartbeat You would? Do you think we should? Even though he was like Doesn't he like hate ABC And doesn't ABC hate him? Yeah

ABC doesn't have him. I think he hates the Bachelor. Yeah, he probably does. I talk to Juan Pablo all the time. You do? What's he out to? Selling autographs? He's, no, he's with a former Miss Venezuela that he loves. Okay. Where do they live? He's very happy. Miami? These things I don't know.

This is very similar to the questions when all the parents asked the women of the hometown dates about like, so what does he do? Where would you live? And they're all like, I don't know. He's just the bachelor. That was very notable in Vanessa's hometown when they're like, would he move to Canada?

Would you move to L.A.? Yeah. It is weird that I didn't discuss that beforehand. Like, those are the kinds of things like, you're meeting my parents. Like, let's prepare for this. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's very strange. Well, some of them you know what it, like I remember specifically Brad Womax where he's like,

I own these bars in Austin. Like, this is what I do? And if he can't do that. But with Nick, it is like, well, what do you do? Well, but that's partially because I think the show has made it shady. It's like, we know Nick lives in outlet. He Instagrams and Snapchat's every day. Yes, exactly.

and goes to the Americana. I've seen the pictures. Exactly. Like, I do that too. He was a software salesman in Chicago. Right, but he hasn't been in years. For a while. Yes.

He hasn't. It's been a little while. So that's why it's confusing because he lives in L.A. It is a little confusing. But the show makes you, like, he lives in Chicago. Right. Which, like, what's the benefit of doing that to, like, make him seem regular? Yeah.

Well, I mean, you want this guy. Look, I hope at the end of the day this guy doesn't have illusions of being, you know, I don't know who Ryan Gosling or whatever Chris Harrison or Chris Harrison yeah Notable decrease in screen time for Chris Harrison this season There has been I know that is not by design

Chris cannot be happy about that No Chris is not happy No I didn't think so No absolutely He is absolutely counting those seconds Is it because Nick is a good narrator Or it's just because of the way the editing worked out I think part of it is just because there are

the way the season is sort of gone out where there's not row ceremonies necessarily at the end of the things there's not set up and nick is a good read he's been able to say like hey we're all going to you know finland or we're going to the bahamas or we're going to new orleans and so there's not the chris where he comes in oh well you know welcome to new Orleans you know this city won a super bowl six years ago this is great you know you'll see here's the first aid card you're very focused on football and i know that's because you're a patriots fan so you can focus on it and and like feel happy instead of like pain. I know, exactly. No, had that 23 stage, it would have been like, I don't want to talk about this. We don't even do. We don't even do. Like, welcome to New Orleans. You know, they've recovered very nicely from Katrina, as you can see.

Thank God. I think Jimmy Garoppolo could be a good bachelor, by the way. I think you'd be good. However, you know the big thing. That doesn't work for his schedule. Yes. No, no. That's the problem with all these people.

Yes. Because you know the person that I met with several times. Yes. He shun up. He should. I'd not be named. Yes. But would have been a great bachelor.

Absolutely. I also think he would have been able to be the bachelor back in the day when we used to run like two cycles of it a year. Right. And he was also a little less famous. He was a little less famous, exactly. But still very cute. But he was so desperate to do it. I know.

That's an incredible story. We're just going to let everybody think about who it is. Yeah. Like, oh, it's grok. I know. But the tricky thing with athletes is the filming for The Bachelor is from end of September to Thanksgiving. That's exactly right. So basically for every sport, that's prime time.

Yeah, there is nobody you can get. That's exactly right. Like literally no one. The reason the SB has happened in July on the day they do is the one day of the year where there's no sports. That's right. Because it's right after the MLB All-Star game. That's right. Exactly.

No football. No basketball. That's right. I think a hockey player would be good too, by the way. God. I don't know enough hockey players, but I know like they, at least in L.A. Like an L.A. king who lives in Manhattan Beach and is like young. But that's like the old way the show used to be, where it was like a person.

And the problem in those people, like when I sit down with them, I'm always like, why would you need this show to date 25 women? So what makes a good Bachelor and Bachelorette now? This show is more talking. Just a regular, honestly, just a regular person. And somebody that these women know, the other part part used to be you'd cast for the next season without knowing who the Bachelor necessarily was. Right. Like we had a guy Matt Grant, who was this British guy. Sure.

Great guy. I think funniest guy, really cute British guy. And the women, every, that, they're like, well, you'll find out who it is, you know, you'll see. And really, for whatever reason, none of them were into him. Just because they just didn't know who he was. Yeah, and they didn't know who he was, so they don't know. You know, now you get, they know who, they know who. I mean, I remember the first time we did it was Jason Mesnick.

And it was so great because you had these people come out and be like, I love this guy so much. I love he's this single dad. Single dad, very sweet. It was like sleep, but since Seattle. Yeah, exactly. From Seattle. From Seattle. Did work out well.

The whole thing. No, it didn't. But then it did. Right. It's true. Him and Molly, they're a delightful couple. A delightful.

How old is Jason's son now? His name's Ty, right? Ty. I think he's almost bachelor age. He's like 13 or 14, right? No, I think he might, yeah, I think he's like, yeah, I think you're right,

probably 13 or 14. That's crazy. They take in a lot of Seahawks games. It's a teenager. If you follow them, like, on Instagram or Twitter. Are they friends with Chris and Des who also live in Seattle? Yeah. That's nice.

Everybody is friends. I always really liked Chris. That's how we came up with Bachelor Pan. Because these people all become, once you do it, you're part of this fraternity and sorority that they all find you and they, you know, literally.

Oh, man. Whether you want to be or not. God. Well, I know. It's like a self-sustaining system now. It absolutely. Yes, it is. That's right, exactly.

And so the show is more popular than like it ever has been, right? I would say so. At least, I guess social media has changed the rating's meaning also. Yeah, I mean, but if you talk to Mike Fleiss, who the creator of the show, if you talk to him at ratings, he gets so upset because he's like, I know that these ratings are not right.

This show is watched in groups. And I think he's absolutely right. That's true. Like I had somebody talked to me and they said they were going on college tours. And literally every single tour, they would go and they'd be like, oh, and here's our living room where we have bachelor parties every Monday night. Everybody watches in groups now. It's true. I mean, it is like a social thing.

It's a total social thing. So then how did you decide to make Rachel a Bachelorette? What was like, we need to pick this woman? You knew that, you knew when she came in for her audition, like, she's great. Uh-huh. She has gravitas. She had a lot going on. She's a lawyer.

She's talking about her parents. Like, you know, you knew she, you know, she really, she came from a good family. Very, it just was, like, you just, and you liked it. And she's funny. Right. Like, there's a lot of stuff that wasn't shown on the show where her and Nick, like, just goofed off. Like, she's really, really funny. She seemed fun in New Orleans when they were dancing.

And that's always, and that's always good, too, when it's like, okay, we get a carry. this is very different. Like, Rachel's probably been on cumulatively, like, 20 minutes? If you took all the stuff off, yeah, about 15 minutes, 20 minutes. No, I mean, it's probably closer like an hour. But you know, so you have to know.

I'm going to put that 30 minutes max. But it's like, but that's 20 hours. Right. Like, it's a lot of time. Right. So you know that you need this person. This person has to carry, you know, carry a season. And that, you just knew.

You know she was great. And so then it was, okay, we'll see how far she goes with Nick, and then if she's not picked, she'd be the perfect bachelor's. Interesting. And then how conscious were you of trying to pick a woman of color since that's never happened before? Obviously, it's great. I mean, you want to pick somebody that you know is going to be good.

Like, you don't want somebody if she was, you know, either boring or not into it and was just like, okay, we're going to do this or we're going to, you know, somehow coerce you into doing it. That's not going to be good either. So it had to be the right, like she really has to want to do it. and the right person. So it's not like, oh, they did this and it was a disaster. Did you have to talk her into it at all?

No, she was pretty, what happens usually is that you do the show and you either have a great experience or a not great experience. And she had a great experience. She loved the producer. Oh, that's cool. And she got it. Like, what happens is everyone thinks it's so crazy. And she's one of those ones, and it's actually good when you go in with like some,

almost like it's a life experience. I'll see what happens. And then she was like, okay, yeah, I totally see how this can work because I'm sitting here thinking about what I'm looking for and falling in love and what I want, 24-7. You have no, I know, it sounds crazy. You're deprived of doing anything else. Exactly, that's right.

Even thinking about anything else, the producers know. And then they immediately like, you know, no, no, get back to thinking about love. How much did Rachel drink compared to Corinne? That's a crucial information for me. Karan was obviously drunk like 60% of the time. Yes, I would say. At least, I think that's a very conservative investment.

If you're a drunk sleeper, that's a problem, Karen. Exactly, that's right. That's not going to cut. By the way, Paradise? She's got to say out. It's hot. You're sweating all the time.

I have a suggestion. Half the time you get food poisoning. I have a suggestion for Corinne. Okay. I think she could be a good friend for Jorge, the bartender. Oh, she'd be amazing. Yeah, she could just hang out by the bar.

Seeing her, seeing Corinne home made the nanny thing a little bit more palatable. Yes, exactly. Because it's like calling, it's like you start calling your grandmother or your grandmother at a young age. Yeah, that's right, exactly. But even so, it was like a little, it wasn't like comfortable. The power dynamics of this employee at their dinner was very, it was very uncomfortable.

No, and like I said, the scene where she was eating the olive, you could see. I don't think she likes those olives, but felt like, no, you need to eat them and tell him they're the best olives. Yeah, so like, do not subject Raquel to Paradise. Corinne 100%. No, no, she won't be. Raquel will not be there. Okay, good.

Exclusive. Okay. So back to. Bring her exclusive. Back to Rachel. Yes, back to Rachel. How much was she drinking? It's very important for me to know.

She drank enough to be fun, but not enough to be out of control. But that's great. Which is good. That's what you want, right? Perfect. That's what you want. Right. So she also kind of like embracing the experience, but not going crazy.

No, no, no. Like I said, you will never meet anyone more fun than Rachel. Interesting. Yeah. That did not really come across. She seemed like very responsible. No, there's so much stuff that was not shown that, I wonder if we should just put it out there so people can see it. Like who she is.

Yeah, because she did. she did like she'd have one-on-ones with Nick at cocktail party time and would always be that's probably we never showed it because it was just fun and goofy right didn't really move the story forward didn't do anything but she was no she's great oh interesting I'm excited about her I like her a lot no I think people have been they're really excited about her yeah I've seen you know we started casting the guys the guys are great oh interesting they're really good I think it's gonna be a really good season do are people like similarly like with Nick are like men excited about Rachel like when they found out it was her did you get a whole new

Oh, yeah, no, that was the reason we announced it early was just because she goes so far and we start taping right afterwards then you'd get all these applicants who were like, oh, I'm really excited to be Rachel and then we don't have time to test you and do everything else. How did it work with Jojo?

Because she was announced pretty late. Jojo was, yeah, that was, you know, we didn't necessarily know that it was going to be Jojo, so that was also a bit of a... Oh, right. I forgot. It was between Jojo and Kayla. Yes, exactly.

And Kayla even filmed a package. Kayla filmed a package and everything, yeah. And she was pissed that she didn't get packed. Right? Yeah, I mean, she probably had every right to be pissed, but you have to go by what the fans are saying. And I think we didn't know how strongly people are going to react to the, oh, I love Jojo. I love Lauren. And it was hard.

Like, this is a girl, Ben said, I love you too. Right. And for whatever reason, yeah, there just wasn't the response that there was to Kayla. Jojo and Jordan seem happy. I think they're very happy, yeah. It's like pretty wild. It's pretty wild, yes. We were all, like, wondering what would happen if Green Bay went to the Super Bowl.

Did you get any angry comments from Aaron Rogers or any of his representatives? I think we're basically told, please don't ask about The Bachelor. I see. I remember last year at the Espies when the show was airing, like, I think Aaron got to the red carpet like eight hours early so that he could not be asked about the Bachelor. He can't like this. Like, it just seems like there's just no way. No, absolutely not. It just puts him in an awkward position, makes his family.

Family seem weird. I don't think anyone would have known about any of these family problems had the bachelor not happened. Yeah, I mean, it's just... We're always exposing family trauma one season at a time. By announcing Rachel so early, were you concerned about how it would affect the ratings? You just never know. I mean, but you have to remember, we're talking about two more weeks and one girl out of whatever was six at the time then. And you're talking about 20 hours of TV with Rachel.

Right. You've got to make the best season possible. Right. So at that point, it was like, it was a calculated risk. But it paid off. By the way, ratings went up, actually. Not necessarily due to Rachel, but nobody stopped watching. Right.

And I actually think you watched her hometown much differently. Yeah, well, it's like... Because you know, you're like, oh, now I should be invested in these people. I'm going to see these people again. Right. Right. As opposed to, you know, yeah, I don't know. Because there's a lot of hometowns where it's like, yeah, I don't think this person's going to go all the way.

So I just sort of watch through it. You kind of don't care. Much closer, yes, exactly. Right. Right. So Nick, after this, we know that he's not with Rachel. He's going to be on dancing with the stars, which is another one of your shows. He's going to be a dance at the backshy boys date. So are you nervous?

I think he thinks he thinks he can. Oh, well, I don't think he can. He would beg to differ. I think Nick is going to be very bad at me. I feel like I'm being mean to him. No, he not being mean to him. Nick won't be mad. He got PETA.

He knows if I'm doing it. That's like, it's okay. He got a good partner in PETA, right? I think so, yeah. Hasn't she won? Has she won? She's won before, yes. So that's big for him.

No, I think she'll be good. She's a new mom, though. Right. So, you know, time's going to be split a little bit. But, no, I think they'll be good. I mean, how far do you think he'll go? Nick? You've seen the cast, yeah.

I don't know. I think he made it week three or four. I don't see him winning. That's probably right. Yeah. Week four is Disney Night. Does he make it to Disney Night? And which Disney Prince should he be?

Ooh. I know. He should be the Sleeping Beauty Prince, I think, Aurora's. Yes. Interesting. Yes, that's my pick for him. That's like the most bland of all the princes.

I just, I just feel like. It wasn't our controversial prince? Mm. Most controversial prince is like, I don't even know. I don't know. I know. Or maybe it's just a controversial Disney character. Like he could be.

He could be scar from the Lion King. Scar, exactly. He'd be good as Scar, I think, actually. So Caitlin Bristow took a lot of umbrage. Chinnick being on dancing the stars. Because Caitlin was a dancer. And she says she was not. She's not allowed to go on.

Is that correct? That is true. Why wasn't she allowed on? You know, everyone has looked at very differently with the producers at the time and where they are. And I think that for whatever reason at that time, it was thought that Caitlin maybe, you know, it's not the right time for a Bachelor, Bachelorette to be on dancing. And I think we just had, who was The Bachelor before Caitlin. It was Chris Solz, who we had on. And he was his news.

And I think that he was a snoo's, but also I think that he had broken up with Whitney like right after, which I think would have happened anyway. Yeah. But I think that, you know, there was some speculation. Like, oh, you know, maybe that hastened it. Right. It was really the timing. The Bachelor brand. Yeah, the timing was unfortunate.

It's been two years or not. But she, as you can see, she's not over it. Not over it. Not thrilled. No, she's really not thrilled. She's very vocal. I really like Caitlin. Very vocal.

But I imagine she doesn't like Caitlin. A thorn in the side of the franchise. That is a, yes, exactly. We need to silence her in some way. No. don't silence her. Oh, she will be silenced. Let Caitlin live.

I can't support that. I can't support it at all. So we know we're going to have Rachel, which is great. And then do you think about, do you have other twists that are lined up, like, maybe we could do this if we end up with a bummer of a season? Like when you had Caitlin and Britt competing to get to move forward, are there other like sort of like bullets in the chamber you could fire if needed? I don't know that we've, you know, literally we have our first meeting on Friday to

took over all the dates and the locations. For Bachelorette? Yes. Oh, that's exciting. So I don't know that we need to call many audibles here. I think this is going to be played pretty straight down the middle. So do you have a new budget? Is there a set budget for every season?

There's a budget, yes. Does the budget vary wildly from season to season in Bachelorette or Bachelorette? No, no, no. That's interesting. No. Like, do you feel that there, do you see a difference? I think the Bachelorette gets worse locations, but I think in general the travel has gotten worse. Like I said, there's tradeouts.

Right. It's hard. You got to get these locations. I know so I think maybe the locations say we'd rather have a bachelor than a bachelor than a bachelor. Interesting. Interesting. Because it seems like Nick kind of didn't have good travel.

Like, you know. It's interesting. Brad Wilmack proposed to Emily Maynard on a safari in South Africa. That was amazing. That was amazing. Ali Fedotowski's finale in Tahiti was incredible. Nick is stuck off the coast of Florida in Bimini. That sucks.

It does. It's not great. You're right. You're doing that proposal. You're weighing proposals versus like episode six. All right, but even Finland, not as cool as... You don't like Finland? I think it's cool.

It's not as cool, bully me. Everyone would rather be in Bora Bora. I think it's cheaper. And I was at Ali's finale. It was incredible. Yeah, it looked amazing. That was one of my favorite finale's. Fiji, which was Ashley A Bear.

Yeah. Not as good. Interesting. The bacon also, they cook the fish on the same plate as the bacon, so the bacon tastes like fish. That was also... It was horrible.

Mike Fice and I will never get over that. It was horrible. It just seems like the weirdest was Caitlin's season when they were in Ireland where I know it's like cheap to film. They were there for like literally a month. So like that was. Well, no, no, no.

That was not planned. That was supposed to go to Patagonia from there. Was it? Because because Nick slept with Kalan, it screwed up the entire thing. Because everyone needs to get more time. Like we need to say here. Yes, exactly. That's so wild.

Remember we had to move fantasy sweets up. Yeah. There were no hometown dudes. There were no hometown. It was the whole thing got, went haywire because of that. That's wild. That's pretty cool. That makes me like Caitlin even more.

Yeah, I know. She's a real trailblazer. Just like Nick there, you know. I know. I get why they liked each other. We should let her dance. Why didn't they didn't let her dance? How did you guys land the Backstreet Boys and Olympians who were fresh off the Olympics at that point?

Well, some of them were. Poor Carl Lewis. You had to be thinking, you know. Oh, my gosh. No, Allison Felix was good. She probably was a fan of that. I mean, some of these people just loved the show. Backstreet Boys, it was like there was a little bit of, you know, promotion.

It's like, hey, we're doing a Vegas residency. Right. Starts tonight, March 1, by the way. I'm going to that. I'm going tonight to the opening. I'm so excited, as you know. So that was really, you know, that was perfect time. I mean, we were always going to these music accents.

And then obviously when we heard they would do it. It's like sometimes it's just, okay, what can you do with backstream? Like a few years ago in Chris Sol's season, it was that movie Cinderella was coming out. Yes. And it was, okay, what came to Cinderella? And it lends itself perfectly to a date. Right. So with Backstreet Boys, it was very much, okay, this is easy.

So we'll just do a Backstreet Boys date, whatever it is. You know, Nick's a member of the Backstreet Boys. How embarrassing for Jasmine that she didn't win, the dancer. That was horrible. That really was, you know. Who won Daniel M? Daniel L. Daniel L.

Yeah. Yeah, that was clearly he was going by Daniel. He was very physically attracted to Daniel L. Yeah, well, she put her boobs on front street right away. Like that was it. And that was clearly what it was, because the fix was totally in. Like, an NBA dancer does not win? This is what the – how many routines did she do to everybody?

And she was with the Cowboys for the Warriors. Yeah, exactly. That's like top tier for cheerleaders. That's exactly right. That's very embarrassing for her. But some of them – I mean, I remember with – sometimes we look for trends. So I remember pitch perfect had come out. And we thought, oh, what would be a great sort of pitch perfect date?

And that's how we came up with the – on Andy season. You remember the boys to men, I'll make love to you days. were they saying that. That was great. But Backstreet Boys, we had heard they were interested in doing something to promote the residency. So that's what worked out. That's awesome. It was a great date.

Yeah, it was. That's like those, the same episode. I was like, this is like the most star power they've ever had at the single episode, maybe except for Jimmy and Amy Schumer. Who else do we have, those were big episodes? You don't have just Backstreet Boys or were there any other stars in there? Well, they have the Olympians as well. Oh, the Olympians. Same week.

Yes, exactly. Those are stars to certain people, though. Right. But when they filmed it, it was September. They did. That's true. They're fresh off the... Yeah, I mean, a month after the Olympics.

Exactly. That's true. That's like a sweet spot for Olympians. Good point. That's one you're in demand. That was where it was, okay, Nick is a, you know, he was a 433 miler. Wow. Oh, yeah.

Oh, the guy's got skills. Great. Nice. Yeah, now you're going to make fun of him so much. It's just, it's low-hanging fruit free at this point. I know. It's true. So that was like, okay, let's do a track and field date around that.

Cool. That's how that worked. All right. Let's look ahead to next week. So it's fantasy sweet. Find out who the final two is. Well, we have to find it. Does Raven?

Does Raven? Orgasms. Yes, exactly. Will that be discussed? Oh, it will be discussed. Oh, my goodness. That's just wild for this show. It is.

It's just different. It's done in sort of a classy way, though. We do another montage. Did you see our credits this week, by the way? Yes, of course. Did you know what that was an homage to? Like Nick being a lumberjack or something? No, it was Rocky 4.

Oh, sorry. The train scene Rocky 4. Sorry, my boss Bill Simmons will be very disappointed in me for not knowing. He's going to be. I'm worried you're going to get your word. just garnishing. But, so this week, we do an homage to remember the scene of 500 days of summer. Yes.

So it'll be that, yes. Cool. We couldn't clear hollow notes. We couldn't clear hollow notes. It's some sort of version, but you'll know what that is. Wow. And so then, assuming it'll go kind of rocky for Rachel and Nick because she gets voted off. We don't know that.

I assume she does. She can't go to final two. She could. She could be engaged and they broke up like Mesnick. I'm hoping that Nick doesn't get engaged because that will just be, that just makes the most sense to me. It would just make the most sense. It would be great. I think at that point, Neil Lane would just self-combust. It would be just narratively perfect. Narrative gold. Yeah, exactly. It would be really, it would be like probably your best year ever if you got the

Oscars. Oh yeah. And then you get Nick being left to the altar. Or him decided to live. Or him decided he's not going to do anything. It would really work if he got rejected. That'd be the best case scenario. For me, the viewer, not for Nick the man. Stay tuned in two weeks. It's going to be good. It's going to be wild. I'm looking forward to it. Thank you so much for coming today. Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. This was really fun. Oh, yeah, for me too. And thank you to SunBasket and Kopari. And don't forget to check out the other podcasts on Channel 33 and the Ringer Network in general. Thanks, Rob.

Thank you. You'll come back, right? Oh, Juliet, anytime. Okay, great. Anytime. Maybe we should do one from the mansion or something like that. Oh, I would love to. That would be so great. Could we do a tour of the mansion? Oh, we can do a total tour of the mansion. That would be perfect. All right. Thanks so much. All right. Bye.

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