The Press Box - Ep. 98: NFL Draft Podcast With Mallory Rubin, Lance Zierlein, Todd Gurley, and Daniel Jeremiah

Episode Date: April 27, 2016

Mays and Mallory team up for the final time to boldly cap their pre-draft journey, discuss the biggest moves still on the table, and bid their farewells. Then, Mays is joined by Lance Zierlien (18:20) to recap his top prospects to look out for on Thursday night. Los Angeles Rams star running back Todd Gurley (35:15) reflects on his rookie season and how he has rapidly adapted to the Los Angeles lifestyle. Finally, NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah (45:05) wraps it up with his thoughts on Goff vs. Wentz and his biggest "beware" prospect on the board. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Welcome to the Ringer NFL Draft podcast. My name is Robert Mays. I'm a writer at the Ringer. Join me again. It's Mallie Rubin. Mal, how are you? Robert, I'm just dandy.

How are you? I'm great, buddy. Purple Rain's been stuck on my head for a week. I watched a bunch of my friends talk about Game of Thrones on TV today. And everything is just happening. And that is everything that's exciting that has nothing to do with this show. show. And the most exciting stuff does. We have a packed preview show for the NFL draft. Me and you you are going to talk a little bit. And then later in the show, we're going to have Daniel Jeremiah from

NFL Network on. We're going to have Lance Zerlain from NFL.com on. And somehow, I guess he translates to modern technology, half ghost, half man, Todd Gurley, is also going to join the show. There's a lot happening. It's amazing. It's draft week. It's beautiful. I am so excited to hear all of the interviews. I'm excited to chat with you now for a few minutes and get a couple final lunatic rants in before we say our farewells. So I wanted to get into something a little more broad before we dig into the nitty gritty of this draft specifically. Okay. And my biggest question about this was whether my feelings about the draft are my personal feelings or somehow the lunacy that infected my life for the last 15 years has also spread to the rest of the country. Because the NFL

NFL draft is one of my favorite things. It really is. I have loved watching it forever. And it seems like the way the league has marketed it, prime time on Thursday, primetime Friday, they're also seeing it as this perfect television event. So what do you think it is about the NFL draft that has made it this thing that people are so interested in? Is it solely because it is an NFL product or is there something more specific about it? Well, listen, you're talking to somebody who considers college football national signing day like one of my highest holy days and an actual national holiday. So obviously my opinion on this matter cannot be trusted. I think it's a it's a confluence of events and emotions. I think the fact, yeah, at the most basic level, sure, the fact

that it's football is kind of enough. I think when you bring in the televised element and the green room and that moment when you see a kid's face right after he's drafted, that has, that is really fun and that is I think why days two and three lose a little something in terms of that like to borrow a Brian Curtis phrase here eventizing the the draft um you know I think there's also that element of sort of like the draft being Twitter before Twitter existed like getting that instant reaction that instant feedback that instant scouting report about something you're invested in like that's really fun for a fan you get excited about a player and then there's an expert there to speak into your face in your living room and tell you whether you should be excited or not.

So what about you? What do you think? Explain why it's such a special time of year for you. I do think that there's a sense of hope with the NFL draft in a way there's not with the NBA draft because we know where the impact players come from in the NBA draft. After about six or seven, what you can be for the most part falls off. You have your Kauai Lenards and those guys who are exceptions to the rule, obviously. But in the NFL, there are so many positions. There are 22 starters. There are about six or seven different distinct position groups. Outside of quarterback, all of them have similar impacts. So you can find stars kind of strewn about the draft and in so many different ways. So I feel like that sense of this is the year where we get our guys is always

pervasive in a way it can't be in any other sport. And that's why I love it. I mean, I will never, ever forget the 2007 draft in my dorm room freshman year of college and my buddy was a huge packers fan and he wanted uh oh marshaun lynch he wanted marshaun lynch so desperately for green bay and buffalo took him just before the packers could and he shattered a plastic hockey stick over the radiator in our room and just the feeling of that and i just don't know if that happens in any other setting and i absolutely loved it so that that's the draft I remember the most and that was one of the best drafts of all time. And those moments have always stuck with me and I think that I am not dissimilar to the other people who are watching this stuff.

That's a really good point. I think like the idea that there's a sweet spot there is really interesting. I hadn't thought about that a ton before, but like with the NBA draft, you know, like I'm a Maryland fan, right? So like the idea to me that Mellow Trimble isn't one of the most impactful players of this draft is like something I actually have a hard time sort of accepting and computing, right? And it makes me like, it makes me less interested in actually like partaking in the experience. Flipside, I'm a big baseball fan. There are more rounds in the MLB draft than there are characters in Harry Potter in the Order of the Phoenix. So it's like, it doesn't even seem worth investing in. It's like, let me wait three years and see which of these

guys pan out. So yeah, you're absolutely right. The NFL draft hits that sweet spot. All right. So let's get to that mellow tremble kind of situation. Guys that you watched and college had an affinity for, and in this NFL setting, can't reconcile why they may not be players that, for whatever reason, this process doesn't peg as stars. Are there two or three or four guys that we haven't discussed as first round picks that you're watching on Friday and Saturday because you think no matter what these guys are going to be impact dudes in the NFL? Two or three or four. I could probably give you 200, but in the interest of keeping this efficient and crisp, I will limit myself to three. Let me start with Notre Dame defensive tackle

Sheldon Day. He is... Interesting. He was one of the guys eyeing as well. I would like to hear you... I would like to hear your explanation as to why. Look at this. A month of arguing and we're finding common ground at the end. You know, Day is undersized, okay? And he's sort of like a bit of a tweener. He's shifted along the line, but he doesn't necessarily have a natural position at the pro level, but he is so smart. He's so fundamentally sound. He is quick hands, gives amazing effort on every play, a lot of lateral quickness, quickness when he burst into the gaps. Give me a guy who knows what to do and who wants to be great, and I'll figure out the rest. Also, little showtime tangent here. I know I've talked about a season with Notre Dame before,

but he had so many delightful moments with his mom on this past season that, at it just like, I'm smitten. I'm smitten. So Sheldon Day is first. Should I keep going or do you want to talk about why you're intrigued by day as well? So I just think he's quick and he has promised as a pass rusher. He's very good at playing down the line of scrimmage, diagnosing plays. He's just someone that is around the ball a lot.

And I understand that people are worried about him being a little undersized. I don't know. I just think that stuff is overrated. I think you can play inside at 285 pounds and serve. survive, especially the way that today's league works. We have so many defensive tackles in this draft that people love them because they're run stuffers and block eaters and all that. Give me some dudes that make plays.

You know, give me some Sheldon Rankin's types. And I feel like Day isn't quite on that level, but I think he's one step down. Speaking of guys who are getting a bit of a knock for being undersized, Sue Cravens, USC, linebacker, safety, unclear. and so that seems to really be hurting him. Also, I think the fact that he has been a little bit slow on the workout circuit has hurt him. But you know what? I don't care.

He can run. He has good instincts. He's tough. And I think that when people talk about his size, one thing that they don't bring up enough is that he just have the kind of frame that looks like it's ready to like carry a little extra padding. He has blitz ability. He's a real ballhawk for a linebacker. I'm all in. I'm all in.

He really is. I love him. My third guy and my final guy. Because as I said, I'm going to exercise some willpower here. Jacoby Brissette, quarterback. We have talked a lot about Dak Prescott, Christian Hackenberg, Cardell Jones, those guys who maybe you get around two, three, maybe even four, if you're not reaching early and you want to wait, you want to sit back and wait.

Jacoby could be a sneaky smart pick for a team that misses on one of the top-tier quarterbacks and is content to wait until day two or maybe even day three. He's competitive. He has a big arm. I think the fact that he transferred in college sort of led to him falling off the radar in kind of a weird way. If he lands with a team that's patient, he might be a pretty interesting player. That is the first time I've heard that human being's name mentioned in reference to this process. So definitely digging deep there that I really appreciate it. I took this assignment very seriously.

Who else stood out to you as an occasional college football fan? Is there any reason you can give me that Sterling Shepard, is not going to be a star in the NFL for like 10 years? There's not a single reason I can give you. And the only reason that I didn't pick him is because I suspected you might. He's amazing. I love him. So I'm just going to throw it out there. How tall do you think Antonio Brown is?

Four foot seven. It's 5'10, but he might as well be 4'4 foot seven in reference to how this all works. Sterling Shepherd happens to be also 510, which is, you know, crazy. Sterling Shepard had 20 reps on the bench at 510. He weighs 10 more pounds than Antonio Brown did. He is faster by a full tenth of a second in the 40 than Antonio Brown was. There is no reason that size should be the defining characteristic of whether or not a guy is worth taking. He's an incredible route runner.

He has a 41-inch vertical leap. He has disgusting hands away from his body. He plays a ton bigger than he is. I look at him and I just see somebody that is not only a slot receiver. Just because you're less than six feet tall doesn't mean you're only a slot receiver. And all I can think about in my mind right now is Tampa Bay taking him early in the second round and pairing him with Mike Evans for the rest of time. I love it.

He also played with like 47 different quarterbacks at Hook Loma, which is really hard. He made a dude that smaller than him look like an All-American. Exactly. I love it. Okay. What do we got next? And I guess kind of along the similar or similar line, but not exactly the same, because this can include the top tier guys. Who, give me two guys where you're most intrigued by where they end up. Oh, okay. Well, I think the person I am genuinely most intrigued by is Jalen Ramsey. And we've talked about him a lot throughout this draft preview podcast.

but, you know, the trades have done this interesting thing where the potentially best overall player in the draft is sort of like not being talked about anymore because everybody is focusing on the quarterbacks instead and on the teams and the trades and the terms. And so it's a situation now where we don't know you could end up in any, you know, a handful of different places, including in Baltimore, Dare to Dream. And it's fun to think about because those are a lot of different situations. I would jump on him immediately at three if I were the Chargers, but they have offensive line needs too.

They can easily go a different direction and he could fall. And then it's a situation where, like, how far does he fall? So I'm just really fascinated to see where he lands. And then the other guy is Ezekiel Elliott because, like, you know, we've sort of simultaneously, like very quickly gone from a moment in time where it looked like he might be a jet at 20 to talking about him in not only the top 10, but like then the top 8, and then once the Eagles moved out of

8, potentially the top like five. And that's just wild to me. And even though I'm an incredibly pro-Zek person and loved watching him in college and believe that he'll be really good, I don't know that it makes sense to take him quite that high. So I'm fascinated to see

who sort of takes the plunge, what the Thai-Gurly ripple effect really is. And I guess relatedly, the sort of like the asterisk there is like I'm just as a interested to see who takes Derek Henry. Because as you know, I'm quite fond of him. And I think that there's a chance, even though Zahiel Elliott is an incredibly special talent, that waiting around to take Derek Henry winds up being the smarter play. What about you? Who are you most interested

in landing spot-wise? I think Elliot is obviously a name that pops out. It's similar to Gurley last year. I think we were all curious to where a Gurley would go. And I don't think Elliot's quite on that level. We've talked about that. But I still think he is in that conversation of, all right, who's going to do it. So he's in there for me. Paxson Lynch sort of is, but I feel like with what this happened so far, I know where Paxon Lynch is going to go. He's going to go way too high in the top 15 because the team gets desperate now that this is happening. So in the quarterback sphere, now I'm really interested about where Hakenberg is going to go. Peter King reported earlier this week that the bills were interested in him at 19. Whether that's true or not, it just speaks to

how insane this entire process is for a guy that looked like absolute shit for three years or two years, however long. Looked amazing for the first year. More time than somebody should. More time than someone should look bad when people are considering taking him in the first round. So he's one of those guys. And then the other one for me, somebody who's going to be in the green room and I had never seen mentioned as a first round pick, Keanu Neil from Florida. Yes.

I watched him a lot today. good Lord, that dude likes to hurt people. And that makes me a big fan of his. Also, his name is Keanu, which I am so glad there are people named Keanu in the world now. And it just makes me more excited about kitten-themed movies featuring Keen Peel. I hope there's a lot of promotional crossover between the draft and Keanu, because Keanu comes out, right? It's this weekend, isn't it? It's on Friday.

Delightful. Just delightful. Okay, let's wrap up. We've come to the end of our journey. together. What is our final talking point of this beautiful journey? So I think the last two weeks, each of them has included a holy shit, I cannot believe that just happened moment in relation to trades, whatever else. I don't think we're done. I said that last show. If you had to bet on one team to give us our holy shit, I can't believe that just

happened moment on draft day, who would you bet on? Specifically with a trade or with any sort of decision making? any sort of decision making, whether it's Dallas taking Elliott, whether it's the Broncos moving up for a quarterback. Who do you think is the most set up and motivated to be like, you know what? Fuck it. I'll do it. Okay. I was just having a delightful conversation with Jeff Chow, our CEO and an Eagles fan.

And he floated, you know, as a joke, but floated the possibility, like, of the Eagles not taking a quarterback at two. Like, what if this was just masterful misdirection and a smokescreen? So that is actually hysterical to think about. What if the Rams or Eagles don't actually take a quarterback after all? That would be priceless. Obviously, that's not going to happen. The only person who wants that to happen or could make that happen is Sam Bradford and some sort of insane blackmail. What if the Browns, after getting all of this praise and all of these people saying,

wow, the Browns finally did something smart for a change, decide to trade back up because somebody who they want is falling? That would be pretty funny and pretty priceless. There's something that's kind of delightful about the idea of the Titans getting tonsil after all. I don't think that's quite the holy shit moment in terms of the team doing something. It's just the holy shit moment in terms of like, wow, they got all of these picks and that wound up getting their guy after all. The holy shit moment that would absolutely break my heart is if Miles Jack is sitting there at six and the Ravens trade down. You need to send help if that happens. I'll do my best.

I'll keep somebody on call. out there. I'll make sure I'll have several options because I don't want anything horrible to happen to you. Thank you. Mine is, this is my kind of crazy prediction for what might happen on Thursday. The Jets trade up for a quarterback and that trade involves Muhammad Wilkerson. Oh boy. Interesting. We're going to have to send help Sean Fennesse's way as well, I think. So here's what I'll, I'm sad that our journey together is done, but here's what I need you to do before the draft. I need you to make me a list of emergency content. in the Los Angeles offices for the ringer and send them my way because I don't want anything

terrible to happen to you guys. Well, I really appreciate that. It's kind of you to care. We're worried about you as well. You know, you're going to be in Chicago, your hometown. You're going to be at the draft. And if the bears make a bad decision, you're going to be surrounded by a lot of fellow bear fans who will be able to share in your anguish. I'm not sure if that support network will be useful or dangerous, but we'll be thinking about you. Thanks, buddy. And I will be doing some more recap. shows from Chicago, live on the ground. We'll have some people on.

We'll react way too quickly to the first round. We'll judge way too harshly and just do all the things that we love to do. But, Mal, this has been a wonderful journey, and I really appreciate you doing this with me. It's been fun as hell. It's been a blast. Thank you for having me. Go Ravens. And joining us now is Lance Zerline, the NFL draft analyst for NFL.com and NFL Media.

You may also know him as the guy who wrote every single one of the player recaps that you been reading for the past two months, which I can only assume means he has not slept since early January. Can you confirm that you have actually gone to bed? That's incorrect. I haven't slept since December of last year. Okay. Well, good, because we're all about accuracy on this show, so thank you for setting the record straight. I wanted to have you on because really, that is true. I mean, I love the recaps on that site. You've done an incredible job with them, and it just seems like you have intimate knowledge of every single one of these dudes to some degree.

And the first thing that I would ask you, I mean, what is this process like for you? When did you start actually digging into all these individual breakdowns? I guess started in September. I started watching college games. I started watching some old 2014 tape on a few guys just to get a headstrong. I acted like I tried to convince myself I was going to get more of a head start this year than last year. And then that just goes out the door. In October, I flew to some game.

Well, in September, I went and saw Auburn versus LSU in person. I went and saw in October. I saw Jared Goff versus UCLA. I saw USC versus Utah. Let's see. Cal, UCLA, USC, Utah. I'm forgetting another game that I went to. So whenever I'd go to these games, I'd file some reports,

and then I'd just stash away some notes as well. And then while I was at NFL Network, when I flew in for the Cal game and then the USC game, the next, I guess it was two days later, I spent time there watching tape, watching film, writing some players up. And I got, you know, tape on about half the games on about half the games that season. I started doing tape work. I would say I started doing tape work really in November. And then when I got more of the tape, I started going in full speed. So it was, the process really started happening in the fall, but it doesn't really become, you know, deadline type of real until December. Okay, that makes a lot of sense.

So as you're digging into this stuff in September, November, at the beginning of the season, who would you say as the guy where your opinion of him has changed the most from September 1st to today as we are on, I mean, literally the eve of the draft? Oh, that's a great, man, that's a really tough question. I haven't really thought about it like that. You know, one guy would say, actually, in a positive way, would be Darren Lee. Okay. Yeah, with Darren Lee, I really, you know, I look at it, there's two different ways of looking at it. You do the individual player analysis and evaluation.

But then, if you really want to go next level, and I think, you know, most people do, you have to start thinking like a team would or like a general manager would. And I try to do both. And so when I stopped looking with a critical lens at the way he missed some tackles here and there, and I didn't think he was, you know, an aggressive finish. His body type and size was a concern. When I stopped worrying about what bothered me, and I started realizing and thinking about him in terms of the value he offers in nickel coverage, you and I both know how much the game is

played in 11 formation. Three wide receiver sets and specialty sets that are specifically not designed. but it's specifically put out there to match up, to create matchup issues. And a lot of times against linebackers, you know, that's the norm in the NFL. So guys like Darren Lee who can cover, who can play all three downs, they end up having more values. So when I started thinking less about what is it that he has an issue doing and started thinking more about what is it that he does that will be a little bit unusual for other, you know, than other players, I think I started realizing, yeah, he's got some tremendous cover value that, for example,

you'll never ever see with, you'll never ever see. And as you can see, police are circling in right now and Reggie Raglan because he's not great in coverage in his second, you know, on the second level. And that's so interesting. And I think that's something that we don't really think about, again, when you're watching a player and you're considering what he is on the tape that you're viewing, when, first of all, the personnel guys start watching him, but then also when the coaches get introduced into the process, because I think coaches probably are even more inclined to say, all right, I see what this

guy can do every once in a while. I can get him to do it every single time. So they see what it can be where a lot of times, yeah. So I mean, that's, and he's totally a person that fits that. And I saw that in your latest mock draft, you have him going to the Jets, which I think is really interesting, just because they blitz as much or more than any other team in the league. And I think his best value isn't only in coverage, but he's a really effective blitzer. It's not just that he's fast, is that he gets there when they send him. And few teams in the league can utilize a guy like that more than the Jets can. Yeah, and I don't even think he gets to the Jets.

I mean, if you really want to know the truth, I've got a new mock draft that will be, I've got to turn in today that will be coming out. I don't know, probably tomorrow. but I can tell you this, I doubt I have him getting to the Jets. I think he'll go sometime before then. And that ability to cover is important. His ability to blitz is important. His range and the ability to cover more of the field.

I mean, you know, there are some technical things that bother me, but I think I let it bother me too much. And what I stopped doing was paying attention to what he can do and what he will be able to do. And you're 100% right. My dad is an NFL coach. And so when he looks at a guy like Lurraven Clark from Texas Tech, everyone else will say, oh, his tape is this or his tape is that.

You know, what an offensive line coach will say is, wow, 36-inch arms, 11-inch hands, he's got athleticism. He, now, in college, he vertical sets nonstop. They try to go 1,000 miles an hour at Texas Tech. So it's not even about technique. It's just about being able to get up to the line of scrimmage quickly and get in the way. That's what they want you to do. They want you to vertical setback and just give the quarterback enough time.

Well, what's going to happen when this guy takes these traits and he starts getting more coaching and more technique work? And that's not a knock on Texas Tech's offensive line coach. That's really a knock on college football is it's designed to take advantage of speed. Well, in the NFL, you've got to play with technique. And so when Le Raven Clark takes these traits and he's coached up, well, then what? That's why teams, that's why there's a linebacker, there's a guy from Eastern Illinois that everyone's talking about right now. It's going to be a late round pick. And he is, oh, Camus Grugierre Hill.

I watched him yesterday. He's number 32 on tape. He's got ran a 4-4-5. He's 6'2. He's listed 210, 209 in his pro day, but I think teams believe he's, during season. He can carry 230 pounds. vertical leap of like 36 inches, almost 11-foot broad jump. These explosive traits and speed characteristics,

they're just rare amongst linebackers. And so when you see that, teams will bet on traits. They won't necessarily bet sky high, but they will bet on traits for sure. And that's why a guy like Lurraven Clark is going to be overdrafted in some people's opinion, because what a coach sees is they – a coach says, Robert, I care what he can't do. I'll get that out of him.

Just let me know that he has to physical. physical ability to handle the coaching and translate it on the field. And if they do believe that a guy has that, then teams don't worry as much about the tape as they do about the potential. And that's the thing. And so we talk so much about talent evaluation. I don't think we talk nearly enough about player development when it comes to draft pick succeeding. One hand washes the other. You can pick the most promising guys imaginable.

But if you don't have coaches that can get the most out of them, then it doesn't. Who cares? That's kind of what we talked about in this show before with the Browns. It's not a matter of the Browns, GMs, not being able to pick good players. It's a matter of the coaching staffs being there for 18 months and never being able to develop the players. So if less you can do one and the other, then it doesn't really matter. So that's what we're getting at here. So I wanted to ask you kind of in that, on the flip side of that, if there's guys that are going to be overdrafted because of traits,

who are guys that you think are going to be underdrafted because they don't fit those measurables? And you just say to yourself, I don't care. The guy can play. I'm going to take them. I want him on my team. I think Cody Whitehair will get underdrafted because he did 16 bench press reps. He didn't, you know, he didn't rep out as much as teams want, and he doesn't have any kind of, he's got a little bit shorter arms.

So he doesn't have those traits. Now, I think he plays, I think his play strength is right there on tape. I'm not worried about it. But he doesn't have long arms. He didn't bench all that well. It's going to hurt him. And he's going to get underdrafted. He's going to fall into the second round.

I take them all day long. I think Cody White here is a plug-in-play 10-year guard or center in the NFL. I think, you know, he's going to be one of those guys. I would say another – and a lot of times it happens with offensive line, but I think a running back, Paul Perkins, you know, well, he's not a big guy. He's not really – I don't think he's a guy who will run between the tackles. Look, I know this.

I mean, good luck trying to catch him because he is incredibly elusive. He's got tremendous vision, tremendous footwork. he can create for himself, but because he's not a big guy, and he's not a fast guy, he doesn't hit the big and he doesn't hit the fast. I think some people will beat him up. But I was told this by a really good running backs coach. You've got to find one of two things, and if you find both of them, you're in really good shape. A running back has to be able to create for himself through physicality and breaking

tackles, not just grinding out an extra yard or two here, but breaking tackles and keeping a run going, or by being elusive and making people miss and gaining yards on his own when the offensive line doesn't help. Well, Paul Perkins has that trait. He has that quality. He can create for himself. I think he'll go on the fourth, maybe even the fifth, because people will beat him up a little bit about not being a big guy and not being a fast guy. But he's a really good football player. And so, you know, I think that's an example of a guy who will also be underdraft.

And I think Kenchell Brothers. You know, I recognize the Kenroll Brothers. Yeah, baby. Missou. Yeah, I mean, he's not big. He's not fast, and he's not particularly strong. And the measurables aren't going to show an explosive athlete. But, I mean, I guess I don't want 152 tackles from the SEC.

I guess I don't want a two-time, you know, all-first team SEC linebacker. I guess that's not any good. So he's just ridiculously productive and gets to the ball. He's just got a sense for the ball. Scooby right, too. But Scooby, Scooby, you got to make a good. sure he's physically okay. Yeah. So these are guys that you like and it makes sense that when you go through this entire process, you'd find guys you like maybe a little bit more than others do.

Is there somebody maybe on the high end even where you've watched them through this whole process and you're trying to figure out what other people are seeing and you find yourself going back and back to the tape digging for what it is and never seeing it? Yeah, I can give you a few guys like that. One is an offensive lineman Joe Duny from Instant. C State. I mean, I just don't think he's strong enough, and it concerns me a little bit. And I know you study offensive line player as well, Robert. So you got to have a certain level of strength if you're going to bump inside the guard in it, and it concerns me. But everybody I talk to, everybody else likes him in the third or fourth round. So I may

have just missed him. I may have just missed him. The second one would be, I'll give you three. Sean Davis, who is a cornerback safety from Maryland. He is shooting up draft boards because of those traits we talked about. He's big, he's got good length, he's fast. But I don't see the tape. Like, I'm all four traits, but I think he's got some issues with coverage that I think are going to be insurmountable

at the cornerback position unless he's in the right scheme. And I personally think he's more of a safety, if you really want to know the truth. I like him as the safety as a corner makes me a little nervous. I'm not sure, you know, schematically, what you want to do to cover up some of those transitional issues he's going to have with his hips. And then I'd say T.J. Green from Clemson.

Look, I fully recognize that he's fast, that he's got some explosive testing numbers, that he might have some coverage ability. I just didn't see it on tape. And it's hard with safeties because you have to watch a ton of games and a ton of plays because there's so many plays they don't do anything. But I just, I don't really see what all the top 40 buzz is about with T.J. Green. I mean, I'm just not seeing it. So I'd say those are definitely some guys that would fit into that category.

And to a little bit, and to a little bit lesser extent, I would say Shaq Lawson. Because while I think Shaq is strong with a really good motor, I personally don't see as big a difference between Shaq Lawson and Emmanuel Ogba as other people do. I think they're similar to all that different on the next level. I think that's so interesting. I agree with you. And I think they test faster than they live. look on the field, but that's also a situation where when you don't necessarily know assignment, all of that kind of stuff, I mean, you see what those guys are ripped off in the 40 and their

verticals, and I just want to throw them with Rod Marinelli in a cage for 20 years and see what can come out of it. And I think that both of those guys, and this edge-rudge class after Bosa in a way, is all projection in a way that it hasn't been in classes in the last four or five years. I don't know if you agree. No, I completely agree. It is a crap shoe edge class this year, especially compared to last year's class coming out. So last question, in the first round, you know, guys that are consensus, top 30 guys among most people watching this all the time, if you had to mortgage your future on one dude to be not necessarily an all pro, but a 10-year starter in the league, who would it be?

And what do I choose from? Anybody. Any guy that is one of those first round dudes, you can be tonsil if you want it to be, but not necessarily. Somebody that you are certain, this guy is going to be in the league for 10 years. I will get on a table, pound it, yell and scream, this is my man. Who would it be for you? You know, this is going to, this kind of flies in the face of where I have him graded

because my draft grade on this guy's second round, but I might say Ryan Kelly. And here's why. Okay. I've got a second round grade on Kelly. I think he's good, not great. But he plays a position that if you stay healthy. First of all, he's got pretty good size. And if you stay healthy at that position,

you can have a long and successful career at the center position. And Tunsell might have some medical issues that could potentially end up being a concern. I don't think this is a great class at the top end because of Jalen Smith's injury and Myles didn't know. uncertainty with Miles Jack. So I would say, you know, honestly, I think Ryan Kelly at the center position, from a productivity standpoint, if you stop scoring touchdowns as a running back, a wide receiver,

you get dinged for it. At the quarterback position, it is easy to fall out of favor. But offensive linemen, as long as you keep grinding, you can have a long and solid to good career, especially at the center position. So I would say actually Ryan Kelly from Alabama, and I'm surprised I'm even saying that. I don't even saying that. I don't even have a first round grade on them. But for the question you ask me, yeah, he actually fits me. He's a pod favorite, so I'm happy that you mentioned him.

All right, well, we're going to let you go because every person in the world wants to talk to you these days. And I really hope that you get some sleep after this is done. I'm really holding out hope for you. I think it's going to happen, and I think you're really going to enjoy it. We really appreciate you coming on, man. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm looking forward to my time in Chicago. And then May is going to be, it's going to be me time, baby.

It's going to be me time. All right. Well, enjoy it. Enjoy Chicago. I'll be here as well. Hopefully I'll see you. And best of luck with the week and everything past that. And joining us now is the one and only. Rams running back, Todd Gurley. Todd, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing? No complaints at all. It's an excellent time of year. I'm excited. I'm happy that the draft is in Chicago again. It's where my home is. It's going to be a fun week. So you were the man there last year in a way. And that's where I wanted to start with you. you were somebody that everyone was curious about they were curious about where you were going to land how high a team was going to take you

when did you know you were going to st louis um i guess around about probably like when did the falcons pick like six yeah i think they were at eight i think beseley went at eight so no it was it was like around um like pick six like when the red skin

they picked and then i think the giants had like i don't know what pick they had but then you know I kind of figured my day was like, when they say they're going to get you, don't take you. So I'm like, okay, you know, I heard plenty of, you know, I hope they picked me, but, you know, I didn't want to give, you know, get my oath to.

Coming into the draft, did you have a sense of where you would go? I mean, did you expect to go that high when draft day started? I didn't. You know, that really wasn't my main focus. You know, I kind of seen. Sure. You know, you see it every day on TV, so it's hard to avoid it. But I was just trying to worry about just getting back healthy.

You know, just learning about that part and let the draft take care of itself. I was definitely a surprise top 10, but, hey, I definitely wasn't complaining. When the season started, did you think you were ready to go full more? Were you full speed and you think, and did they kind of hold you back a little bit? Or do you think that having them bring you along slowly those first few weeks was big for you? Yeah, you know, when I got drafted and I came in and G.I. And, you know, we had a plan, you know, the whole time. And, you know, I didn't really do.

And I just felt like, you know, I needed at least a good. When you settled in, I mean, I don't think I'll ever forget watching that first Arizona game and what you did in that fourth quarter. I mean, it was kind of a, oh, man, this guy is here and this is going to be a lot of fun. I mean, how early into the season did you understand that that was going to be something you were capable of? I guess that game, because the previous game, I only had, like, six kids for, like, nine yards. So that kind of stuck with me.

It was like, man, I cannot have that week next, that following week, like, just like that. So we was all motivated. We was on the road. So obviously, you guys are back in the news again. I mean, I think that the Rams were a big story last year when they took you, and the Rams at this point are maybe the biggest story coming into this draft. Where were you when you heard that they had made that trade to go up to number one? Have some new talent on the team. As a player, I mean, what is your thought about that?

Aside from the fact that, you know, you're going to have a lot. the number one pick, you're likely going to have a quarterback. Is it comforting for you being a member of an organization that seems like they're willing to make big moves to win? Oh, yeah. You know, to make that move when we pick Thursday. As far as, you know, there's, you guys, I can't imagine how crazy a year it's been for you. I mean, you get drafted in the top 10.

You're a rookie. You have a great season. And then that season ends, and you find out that the first year where you spent as an adult working, you no longer live there. Just logistically, I mean, what has the move been like for you? Do you have a place in L.A.? I mean, how did you even go about this?

Yeah, you know, sitting on TV watching, watching the commissioner and all the owners. And, you know, that's when I found out we was moving to L.A. March, and they kind of explained, like, the area we was going to be living in so guys would start, you know, looking for houses. And then I was already out here training, so I just kind of wanted to be, out here, start training, kind of get familiar with it's hard, and, you know, just enjoying it. How do you like all the driving?

Is somebody that was not from L.A. and then moved out there, I think I moved out there at 23, so, like, we were pretty much the same age. I was not ready for the driving. Is it starting to drive you insane yet? Oh, man, I don't leave my house in the morning from probably like 10 to 1. That's the move. I think after 10 is when it really starts to slow down. So the fact that you're already a veteran, that's, I'm pretty impressed by all. that. As you head into season number two here, I mean, what would you say outside of being healthy,

what is different about your second year as opposed to your rookie year? I mean, what about your off-season activities, everything else changes from year one to year two? My first off-season so just getting a chance to get that time off, take that time off, you know, let your body recover

and then, you know, just working your way back into shape. And, you know, it's definitely been a lot better than last year and move around pretty good. So, you know, I've just been enjoying it, you know, working hard and just ready to start the season off. I know that it's still pretty early, but have you gotten a sense of what might be different with Coach Boris than it was from last year? Have things changed in any way?

It's definitely just a great coach. That's your feedback from the players, which is, you know, important because he's not the works like that. And it's interesting because last year, you know, they came in, there's two rookie offensive linemen. You have Greg Robinson, who's really young. And the fact that you guys kind of get to figure it all out together is pretty interesting. How would you describe the relationship a running back has with his linemen? Do you guys have a dialogue that keeps going? Do they tell you what they see?

Do you tell them what you see? I mean, how does that work? Yeah, you know, just being out there on that field. From practice, and, you know, you talk about different looks, and you just like, you know, during the game, if this look comes, you know, I'm going to do this. So just being on the same page with each other. And then just sometimes just out there just making a football play, just understanding, you know, if D-Liaman is coming through free,

you know, I'm going to definitely come up and chip or help. You know, we definitely communicate during the game. So in Pass Pro, it's almost more important for you guys to communicate than it is when you're running the ball because when you're a runner, it's just you kind of take over. Yeah, just that makes a ton of sense. That's the easy. just being able to run the ball, but, you know,

all of these type of defense is the big adjustment in the past. Well, we really appreciate you being here, and you're here with the courtesy of DirecTV and NFL Sunday Ticket. I mean, what has it been like to work with those guys before the draft and just overall? It's been fun, you know, here with DirecTV. Just doing a game, just, you know, being cable is like, man, I'll be playing like cable talk, and I'd be like definitely not going to do that. So, you know, definitely excited to be here with DirecTV.

You know, NFL's a honey ticket, extra costs, and you can go purchase it with these guys. Wow, awesome. I expect to see a whole lot of DirecTV, Todd Gurley, in Hollywood this year, and I look forward to what you do in your new home and with maybe a new quarterback and with a lot of exciting stuff happening. So, Todd, thank you very much for being here. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

Appreciate it. And we are joined now by TV, Podcast, Everything Radio Star, Daniel Jeremiah, who is on every single platform, the NFL has to offer this week. Are you alive? I'm hanging in there, man. It's what is? I was thinking this morning, the draft's tomorrow. No, it's not.

It's definitely not. Tomorrow is like this weird in between day. The day before the draft and the day before the Super Bowl are very odd. Because it seems like they should be happening then, and then they don't happen, and there's nothing to do. Yeah, everything's kind of set up. It's like, can we just move it up? Let's just do it tomorrow.

So you really, I mean, you do a lot of stuff over there. Obviously, you host the Move to Sixth podcast with Bucky Brooks. You're one of the draft analysts for the channel. This is your time of year. Are you more excited about it now that you would have been like two or three years ago, or is it starting to become old hat? It never gets old. I mean, that's one of the things that, you know, even before I got into scouting when I was in college,

I don't know if a lot of people knew this, but my dad had a relationship with Chris Mortensen. And so that's how I kind of got started. So I would go answer his phones at the draft when I was in college. Oh, man. So that got me kind of, I was always. loved the draft, but then I did that for a couple years, enjoyed that, and then, you know, go to college, I ended up working for ESPN for a couple years as like a production assistant. And then I, after two years, got into scouting.

And that kind of took off and did that for eight years. And now this is my fourth draft, I think, on this side of it. But it doesn't matter. The same when I was 14 or now I'm 38, like the draft, it never gets old. So you scouted for, I think this is Cleveland, Baltimore, Philly? Yeah, those are three? Start in Baltimore, then to Cleveland and to Philly. Okay.

So when you're, I think you were an area scout for two of the teams, then now. National Scout for the other one. So as this process is going, how do you kind of dig in your opinions to higher ups to coaches, to GMs? What kind of tricks did you use to use to slide in guys that you liked maybe that they were a little more lukewarm? Well, it depends on the organization how it's run. So in Baltimore and in Cleveland, we were more personnel driven.

And Andy Reid had a lot of juice in Philly, so we were more coach driven. So there you didn't have maybe quite as much influence. But in the other places, all the scouts had a pretty strong voice. but you knew, I mean, it's, you know, you go into the draft room and that's where the debate takes place. But you could also try and recruit some people to your side. So, hey, you haven't watched this guy yet. And we actually had a rule. Phil Savage had put in a rule there.

If you have not watched a player, don't talk about him. Oh, that's really good. That's a good rule. Yeah, you don't want to have your mind. Well, as scouts, you're like, man, I kind of put myself out there in this guy. I know these three scouts still have to watch him. They haven't watched him yet. I'd be like, hey, you know, I'm not going to tell you what I gave this guy or what I think of him,

but you're going to want to watch that old Miss game. Let me just tell you're going to, you'll enjoy that one. So you try and like get them, steer them in the right direction, trying to pull them along. Who is the guy maybe at those three stops that you can remember being the most pound the table for? Like the guy you rode the hardest for during those stretches. You know, it's funny because you'd sit there and say, okay, you know,

I went hard for Holody and some of the guys we took, Marshall Yana, some big name guys. But the probably the biggest argument or the biggest proponent I was of a player was a Tabah Rubin when I was in Cleveland. Really? We took in the sixth round. Yeah. I'd given him, you know, a six one grade, which,

is saying, I thought he was an eventual starter, which put him probably in the third round range. And we had some dissent in the room there. But I mean, that was, guys, like, the guys, he's big and he's explosive and he plays really, really hard. The rest of it we can work with. And, you know, hey, he hasn't had it. He hasn't had an all pro career, but he's been a really, really solid, steady football player for a long time and he did a nice job in Seattle last year. So let's get into this dress specifically just because that's what people are here, I think. The top two guys, obviously, that's been the entire story the last two weeks. were you surprised that it was for these two quarterbacks?

Not the teams would go up for quarterbacks, but it was these two guys. Well, I knew, I mean, for my personal opinion, all throughout this process, once I finished the tape in January, I had my first top 50 list. I had both these quarterbacks, one and two,

wince, then golf. And I knew that you went to higher. Yeah, went's higher. And I've had them around, I think, 9, 10 in the original one, and they're 7, 8 now. So they haven't moved much.

I haven't changed the order around. So I felt Strong Lowe's would be the top two. guys. If you had asked me in January, would they be the first two picks? I would say, okay, obviously there has to be a trade with Tennessee, but conceivable. Yeah, that's not crazy. If you had told me that there would just be these crazy amount of draft picks traded to get up to get these guys, I said, no way. That's kind of what I'm getting at. Not these two guys. But it's funny. Once it happened, now you kind of take a step back and having a chance to look at it. I'm like, okay, I get it. I understand it. If you look at Philadelphia, you've got Howie

Roseman and Doug Peterson, the clock started. Yeah. Year three, they have to win. They have to be winning. So if you know your quarterback's not on your roster, you know in the next two and a half years, you've got to find that guy. Well, if you wait, he's not going to be up to speed by the time your job is on the line, that big year three. So if you're going to make a bold move,

you kind of have to do it now to get him ready to roll while you still have some, you know, some forgiveness in Philly, which is very little, but you'll have some initially. You try and introduce a new quarterback year two, year three. You might not have enough time to get him up and running. Sure. And with Howie, it's not even that it's year one.

It's year one of stretch two. Yeah, yeah, of a second go-round. Even more urgency because if there is a little bit of a stumbling point at the beginning, Jeffrey Lurie isn't saying, well, this is my brand new guy. He gets five years of leash. He's already seen him one time around before. So that creates even more of a maybe this is when we have to go do it. Even with Doug.

I mean, Doug was there when I was there too as a quarterbacks coach. So there's familiarity there, which can be a good thing, but you can also be held accountable for things that maybe took place in the past. But, you know, and when you kind of look and you fast forward to the future, and I know people say, oh, we've looked at all the quarterbacks, nobody knows what these next round of quarterbacks are going to look like. But what we do know is... We didn't know Carson Wentz was going to be here a year ago.

No, I did him. I did Carson Wentz over the summer when people told me about him, and I gave him a third round grade. And it's one of those deals at that point. I'm like, I'm all in on this guy. I'm pushing my chips in. North Dakota State third round. I'm putting it out there.

And then, you know, you're watching this. You're like, okay, this guy's even better than that. But what I'm getting at is while we might not know who the quarterbacks are, we do know the teams that are going to be in the quarterback market in the next two to three years. and there's a bunch of them. Yeah. I mean, a lot of aging guys, and in your last mock draft, I believe,

you had one of those teams that's going to be in the market for a quarterback maybe next year in the market for one now because you had Paxson Lynch going in New Orleans. Yeah, to the Saints. And this is the, they'll love this,

this is classic. So some of these mocked, I'm not a bit, I've been out on record, I'm not a fan of mock draft. I like the top 50 lists because I can defend my positions on players. I can't really defend what people are telling me. You know, look, that's just what I hear.

So that's the way I do mock drafts. But sometimes there's teams, I don't have a good source inside the team and I don't have people that are really connected to that team. The Saints are one of them. So I just, I'm looking at it going, okay, Drew Brees is up there. Sean Payton just signed a long-term deal. Obviously, Drew Brees is not going to be there for the duration of this contract. So Sean Payton eventually has to start thinking about what's next. So, okay, I'll just throw him a quarterback in this mock draft. And then I have somebody in the league come up to me after the

mock draft comes out and goes, hey, how do you know this about the Saints, man? You know, like, I think there's really something to that. How did you find out? I'm like, I have no clue. That would be lucky than good. Yeah, just threw something against the wall. We'll see what happens. So, I mean, that thing, the jump that Wentz made, you had it as a third rounder, now he's the number two picking the draft, presumably.

What makes him, in your mind, somebody you'd rather have than golf? Well, I'll look at a couple things. I mean, just the physical side of it. He's bigger. He's got a stronger arm, in my opinion. He can move around. He can create things with his legs. You can even use him in the running game if you wanted to.

I always come back. You always try and you're trying to learn. especially with the quarterbacks, I've always, every team that I've been with, they've always had me do the QBs. So I'm always trying to learn, you know, what are the keys there? And talk to Steve Young one year, and I said, if you had to narrow it down, what's the one thing? And he said, it's going into the huddle and saying, over my dead body, will we lose this game? Yeah. So just kind of that, that hunger and that passion and that will that you have, and Carson Winson clutch moments, it's been money.

Yeah, I mean, I've been on the record saying I like Goughmore just from a, I love the subtle pocket mobility and just how he manipulates it and just the ability to throw guys open in a way that Wence has been able to. But when you watch Wence move around, I mean, there's like a Cam Newton element to the way he runs, which is a weird comparison. But I see it sometimes in some of those design keeps and everything else with what's worked recently. It's not surprising that people would fall in love with him. And I think, you know, look, I know the one of the big knocks on Wince has been, well, he doesn't process as quickly. Well, the game itself at that level is a little bit slower. So he hasn't been forced to process it that quickly. The thing that gives me encouragement is that when I go study the senior bowl game, even the week of practice, everything's happening quicker.

There's more speed on the field. His body adjusted to that speed just fine. Sure. So that to me encourages me that he's going to be able to do that. And, you know, I don't buy the whole, you know, the competition knock, the 1-A, and part of it, I'm biased. Look, I play at that level. I get it. So that's kind of ingrained in me.

but you know Jared Goff never beat a top 25 team Jared Goff's 4 and 20 against teams that finish with a winning record so I'm you know if we're going to compare him to somebody that's had this unbelievable success playing at a higher level than I would get more of that argument but to me I mean he's got what four more wins against winning one double eight or one a teams than Carson Wentz does through this entire process I mean you fall in love with guys you've guys that really you stake yourself to is there's somebody that's on the opposite end of it for you

where some people, consensus-wise, the top 30 guys, a first-round solidified person, and you're like, I don't know. I don't know if I get it. Is there somebody like that in this draft for you? Well, I mean, yeah, there's always guys like that. You know, the late riser in this draft is T.J. Green from Clemson, who plays safety.

I know some people have worked them out, think he could be a corner. Six, two and a half. He ran low four-3s. I didn't see that on tape when I watched him. So I thought he was a little bit slow to Key and Reef. read and I just didn't see it. Now, I know if you play him at corner, that's a whole new deal, and that's going to be, you know, you're just trying to put him in press

and just let an athlete be athlete. But I hear a lot of buzz him going in the first round. I didn't think he was a top 50 player. So he's one that comes to mind. You know, there's other guys, you know, you almost feel bad because Zach Martin is such a phenomenal football player. And I have nothing against his brother. He's a really, he's a good football player.

He's not his brother. Yeah. And there's talk now that he could be going in the late first. early second round, I'm going, whoa. Do you think Kelly's just clearly... I think Kelly is the best interior guy by far. Really? And I'm saying guard centers.

Much better than white hair. Yes. Okay. Yes. I have, to give you an example, to put it in terms here, I have him as my 21st player at white hair, I think 48. Okay. And I would take Kelly, and I'm saying I would play him at guard before I would play.

And I like white hair, but I think Kelly could play either guard spot, and I think he's a phenomenal center. For the ringer, I kind of picked my five guys that I had my crushes on. Yeah, yeah. And Ryan Kelly was one of them. And I picked where I wanted them to go. Okay, where'd you pick him? Arizona.

Okay, I like that. So just slotting him, I just imagine him and Mike Ayupati just throwing people off the face of the earth together, and it's very exciting for me. He's a stud. To me, I know he's a little bit different body type, but when Ryan Khalil was coming out of SC, SC was the program.

He was the leader on that offensive line, played a zillion snaps. He was consistent. He was athletic, all that stuff. And I'm like, this is the second coming of this of what Ryan Khalil is. And I think he's even a little bit better player than Ryan was. Ryan's played, what, 10 years now?

And that stuff, I mean, sure, I would assume that those kind of things matter as much to scouts as they do to fan. Just the idea of he played on this ridiculous offensive line on this team that rushed for a million yards, and he was the man in that room. When you're talking to college assistants, position coaches, are those the kind of questions you ask? What kind of presence is he in the meeting room? No question. And I always talk about character and leadership. The closer you get to the middle of the field, the more it matters.

Sure. So, I don't mean, if a receiver, a corner leader, I don't care. but my center, my quarterback, my middle linebacker, my safety, I want those guys to be smart. I want them to be able to communicate and I want them to be able to be great leaders. And character even comes into play a lot more in those positions. So, yeah, absolutely.

You're talking about a center. I want a guy that speaks up and knows what he's doing. When we get further away from the ball, I know Corey Coleman is one of the guys that you have a little bit higher than some people do. Just in terms of his projection five years from now, who do you think he can be on an impact basis that we see in the league right now? I mean, it's always bold when you put these names on guys. I see a lot of Steve Smith.

Just because of, you know, people say, well, the size and the speed, competitiveness. Yeah. The way he just goes after the football, after the catch, fighting for yards. Got a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. I think guys a stud. Now, I know, look, they line him up on the same side of the field. He runs basically four routes, hit slant, post-go.

That's about it. You're going to need some time to learn everything. And there are some people that that really bothers. They say, okay, well, you know, we really like Terrence Williams. It took him three years to kind of get up to speed. So, you know, I really like the kid. I think he's got a chance to be really good. And he's one of those guys that measurable has helped.

You know, just how fast he ran. And when you see him move around. You got 20 touchdowns. Sure. I mean, it doesn't hurt. No, it certainly doesn't. But it's more that when there are guys that only have the production, when you're a scout and there's a dude that, like your suetravens of the will,

players like that. How do you sell guys like that to coaches who often will fall in love with the way them to do moves around and what the measurables can be well the challenges too is that when you think about it from a timing standpoint coaches get into the process at the combine that's the first exposure to these guys so they haven't even watched the tape on somebody's like well he ran 4 3 so then they think he plays 4 3 yeah not necessarily and it works the other way sue of cravens didn't run fast jumps like 27 and a half inches or whatever he jumped at the combine it's like this guy it's not very athletic or explosive but then you watch him on tape and you can see him cover tight ends

You can see him blitz and wrap around blocks and do some really athletic things. He's probably one of the more instinctive players in the entire draft regardless of position. But it's, you know, look, it's part of the package. We always talk about it's kind of a generic phrase but checking the boxes. And for our first round pick, like with Ozzy, hey, there's enough players we can take chances on and make exceptions for. We get to rounds two and three. In the first round, let's find, we can find a guy that checked every single box. Yeah.

The tape is great. The interview was great. and the workout was great. We can find one of those. And you're hoping that if there's one sort of flaw that you can steal him in the third round, even if you do think he's the first round pick, a la what Tyron Matthew was with the Cardinals.

I mean, if he knew he was a top 10 player on your board, it doesn't matter where he is on your board if you don't think any other team in the league has him for the next 30 picks, right? There you go. That's part of the tricky part of it is being able to assess the value around the league what these guys are.

But you also don't want to get cute. I mean, if you think he's better than your other options there in the second round. The first round is its own. Once you get out of that first round, man, just take the best dude you've got left. So who do you think it could be this year's version of a guy like Eric Flowers where this week, even tomorrow, we're not going to be thinking about him in the top 10, and then we hear his name called? I'll give you one that's interesting. One that I'm maybe not as high on as some other people, Sheldon Rankins.

I like him. He was great at the Senior Bowl. But he, you know, he'd be kind of a name if he went in the top 10. Nobody's had him up there. wouldn't totally, wouldn't totally, you know, blindside me there. And I think this late rise here for Leonard Floyd is probably surprised some people, but I think he's in play for the fifth overall pick.

So, you know, he could end up going way up there as well. For a guy like Rankins, do you think it's important when guys that went in recent drafts that look like them physically are able to succeed in the league, whether it's Gino Atkins or whether it's Aaron Donald? Do you think it matters in the minds of personnel people and coaches when that happens? No question. No question. And look, I know the off-the-field stuff, it's been a, it's been a,

fiasco with Johnny Mansell, but take all the off-the-field stuff. If Russell Wilson didn't happen, Johnny Mansell doesn't go on the first round. It's a great point. So it absolutely plays a factor there. So I asked Lance this. It was pretty much the last thing I asked him. If you had to stake your claim to one dude, not necessarily the best player in the draft, but the guy that you were the most comfortable saying, I think he's going to be in the league and a starter and maybe a star for the next 10 years. Who would it be from this year's group? We touched on Ryan Kelly.

Okay. That was his answer too. Was it really? Yeah, he's the main. Now it's scaring me. Now it's scaring me. But this would be the guy, like we had the Red Star thing in Baltimore, so you could put that star on one player that you watched and you just felt most comfortable with. And I can remember my first year in scouting. It was my first year or second year?

I had put it on Logan Mankins. And I get some of the same, you know, feelings when I watch him as when I watched Logan. And I never knew that Logan would be as good as he was. I thought we probably would go in the second round. But I was like, this guy is just made of the right stuff. He's all day consistent. I know exactly what I'm getting.

and he ended up even being more than that. So he would be the one. Let me see, give you another one. Flance already took Brian Kelly. I should have taken him off the board from the start. That's how I mean. That's a good one. I'll say another one that I really, really like.

He's going to play for a long time. Trying to think, go to him. You know who I think, look, he's not going to be the sexiest player, but I'll stay on that same team. Jaron Reed is the same, every tape that I watch. He's the exact same guy. He's not going to get you eight sacks as a DT. You can't move him.

You cannot move the guy in the running game. Would you say that's the most translatable skill from college to the NFL is dudes that are just really effective at eating blocks and shedding and being run stoppers? Well, I mean, he's just, yeah, I mean, I think there's other things you can say that would translate well to the next level. But, I mean, yeah, that's when you're just that physically strong. And he's aware, he's block aware, he can find the football and he plays with great effort. That to me, look, I compared him to like a Brockers. That's exactly who I would say, just because he's the guy that he's never going to get eight sacks. but he's going to be somebody that can play for your team every single week.

Yeah. We say in the draft room, you know, we can win with this guy. Yeah. You know, it takes a need off the table. We plug him, plug and play. We know exactly what we're getting. Now we can fill it around. We'll get some blue chip guys to put around him,

but he's kind of a glue player, and you kind of feel like you know exactly what you're getting. Awesome. Well, I'm glad you had another one. That makes me happy to get two names out there. We're all in. Everybody's all in on Ryan Kelly. Well, Daniel, thank you for doing this.

This was great. It's a fun time of year. We really wanted to have you on. And thank you to Lance Erline from the NFL. From NFL.com. Thank you to Todd Gurley. And please check out Daniel's podcast, Move the Stick Show with Bucky Brooks. Follow him on Twitter and Move the Sticks.

And I hope you survive this week. I have all the faith in the world in you. It's cold out here, man. I'm going to be honest. And make sure to check out everything else that's happening on Channel 33 right now. The Shackhouse podcast is doing its thing. You know, we're having the watch with Chris and Andy. Go watch After the Thrones on HBO Now and HBO Go.

Please, the first episode went up this week. It was fantastic. And make sure to check out the Ringer newsletter coming out tomorrow. We always appreciate it and enjoy the draft. Me and a special guest will be back live from Chicago on Friday to do a first-round recap show. So thanks for listening. We'll be back soon.