The Press Box - ESPN's Laura Rutledge on College Football, Covering Recruiting, and 'NFL Live'

Episode Date: July 28, 2022

Bryan is joined by ESPN’s Laura Rutledge to discuss her career as a sports reporter. They talk through her experience at the University of Florida’s radio station, how sideline reporting influenced her career, being a woman in a male-dominated space, and then talk about her role as host for ‘NFL Live.’ Host: Bryan Curtis Guest: Laura Rutledge Associate Producer: Erika Cervantes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the press box. Brian Curtis of the Ringer here, along with producer Erica Servantes. You know, those of us who write about TV don't often get to see TV shows get made. Most networks don't have a. media critic press box. So it was interesting on Wednesday to walk into ESPN headquarters in Bristol, Connecticut and watch Laura Rutledge host an episode of NFL Live. Laura Rolidge only got to ESPN in 2014,

but she is already one of the best hosts on the network and arguably one of the best anywhere on TV. Five years ago, Relyge became host of the pregame show SEC Nation. Two years ago, she got the same job on NFL Live. And this fall, she's going to be handling sideline duties for the network's number two Monday night football broadcast. After the show on Wednesday, Rullidge and I sat on the set and talked about her first career as a ballet dancer, her early years in the TV trenches, and learning to accept that you're ready for the big job. Here's Laura Rulich. All right, Laura, NFL Live began today with a very elaborate opening. Can you tell us what the key is to

descending a flight of stairs and doing television at the same time? So the actual key is counting the stairs. And then in your head knowing I have six steps to make, whatever it is, knowing the exact distance and committing it to memory. And I know that sounds dramatic, but that's what I do, because in order to actually look at the camera and not completely look down the whole time, I have to know what's coming next. And it's a funny skill that I perfected a few years ago. And I say perfected while also knowing that today I almost fell off a stairs. So it's an adventure in potential disaster every single time we do it. But I live for the danger.

Marcus Spears hates when I do that. Hates it. He gets very nervous and he thinks I'm going to fall. So that's my guy. How much do you write for an episode of an FLAF? I write most of the show. So I'll write all the lead-ins. I'll write parts of discussions.

We have such an incredible team. And so our researchers do anything that's really research-based, the elements that would be a little bit more stats-based, although a lot of times I'll go in there and change some things into a little bit more of a casual way to say it, right? Just so that it comes across a little bit better. And I write all the opens of the shows. I'll add a few things here and there. But for the most part, you know, it's really a collaborative effort to come up with the most conversational thing.

And I think one of the cool things about the last couple years on this show is that as a staff, we've become so intertwined that I write like them, they write like me. if there's a day that gets crazy and someone has to pick someone else up and fill in some things, we can all make it work and they're great. You are the only on-air person in the studio today, as has been the case for much of your run on the show since 2020, started right in the middle of the pandemic. What's the difference between talking to somebody in person and talking to them on a monitor? Well, there's always a lot of unexpected with the whole remote situation. And you saw that today.

We started off the show. and probably two minutes before our producer, Michelle got my ear and said, we don't have Robert. So Robert Griffin III having technical issues from home, I said to her, as you might have heard, is it bad enough that I shouldn't even introduce him? Or are we going to get him soon? Because there's kind of the levels of technical issues. And she said, don't introduce him. So I'm basically thinking even in my A block teas that had him specifically mentioned, I got to change that on the fly because I don't know if we're ever going to get him. I don't want to tease Robert when we haven't even seen him on the show. It's always that type of mental gymnastics when it comes to the remote TV thing.

You've got the delay situation. I have a unique studio look in here where I can really see what they're doing in my monitors. So I watch them the whole time. I watch for freezes. I watch to make sure that someone's, you know, not all of a sudden saying, I can't hear pointing to their ear. Sometimes I see it even before the control room sees it because they've got a lot more going on. but the difference is just huge. When we have them in studio,

you can look someone in the eye, you can make a little motion and they see it. You can communicate so much better and it's so much more conversational. We have to produce out the remote situation a lot more than we do when we're actually in studio can be a lot more conversational.

Adam Schaefter today was giving you the high sign like, I want to get in. I got to get in here. That's his big cue. It's just like the little finger point in the air and he does it really quick. and I probably watch him the most because there's oftentimes something that somebody else says that jogs something in his mind and he's remote a lot of the time. He's got a great home studio.

And so I am constantly paying attention to whatever he's doing. And listen, we always let him in. If Adam Schaefter wants to get in, you let him in. There's also a difference in the high sign and a, I've got breaking news sign. And it's very valuable to have a skill of being able to read lips, which somehow I've gotten over the years, probably back to my sideline days. So I'll try to read his lips too. If I see that he's saying I have news or I have breaking news, I know something's coming and we're probably about to blow up the rundown. So he is mouting that in the monitor. A lot of times he's saying it out loud, but hopefully they have his mic cut. Sometimes they don't.

You'll hear him just random voice. Our technical crew is great. So usually that stuff doesn't happen. But I'll just read his lips a lot of times and see that he's got something going. I mean, he'll pick up the phone all the time. Someone calls him, someone texts him. and it's a constant back and forth for him. Sometimes, too, they'll say,

hey, I know that we were planning on going to him first. He's on the phone in this next discussion. So we re-rack the whole thing really quick, and we decide whenever he's ready, we'll let him pop in. I was interested to learn that there's a producer on this set who is reading Twitter, and if news breaks will not only tell you, but hand you a hard copy of a tweet for you to read on the air.

Is this how it works? That's true. And the funny thing about that is that, usually happens so fast. That's one of the things I love about this show is we get news on really fast. And in a world where people get most of their news on social media anyway, a lot of times they kind of knew about it, or sometimes it'll be the reason why they turned the TV on. They saw something on Twitter from Adam or somebody else. They say, let's see what's going on ESPN, NFL Live. Let's see what they're saying about it. And so what will happen for us is we've got our

producer in here today. It was John Zupon monitoring Twitter. And then, Anything that happens, they're immediately sending that information to the producer crew. They get the headset and all that. And then a lot of times the hard copy of the tweets, the best option because I'll be out here. We're on camera a lot out here. I try not to be on my phone. I'll be out here on my phone trying to look for it. They'll be in my ear telling me look for it.

It's always funny how we end up getting the tweet on TV. And there are many times when they haven't been able to get me the copy. And I'm just squinting at the TV thinking, do I need glasses? because I can't read that tweet. I might need glasses. I don't know. I got to figure that out. That's such 60s television.

This is just in. There's something dramatic too about like lifting up the paper. It'd be like, oh, I just got this info or, oh, they're in my ear. You know, let me tell you what they're telling me is breaking right now. Because viewers are so glued to Twitter. The expectation is, what, a minute, two minutes. I will see this on ESPN if I flip on the television. If that, sometimes quicker.

And I think for us, you know, Adam Schaefter being someone, who is such a leader in breaking news, a lot of times we have the information real time as he's tweeting it because he would probably be on our show. And so from that standpoint, we might have a tiny heads-up that something's coming. The amount of times, though, that we've had huge breaking news with Adam, and we haven't known what it was, that's the commonplace thing. Even you go back to the draft a couple of years ago when we had the Aaron Rogers breaking news that Aaron Rogers is upset with the Packers, the way that that went down was essentially we knew in the first block of our show. It was a two-hour NFL live on-site special in Cleveland that we had put so much work into.

The producer, Mark Isman, gets in my ear. He says, the entire rundown is going to get blown up. We have breaking news from Adam. We don't know what it is. So I'm out there thinking, okay, what could it possibly be? We're right ahead of the draft. Remember that draft, the 49ers had already traded up to get that number three spot at quarterback. So we knew they were going for a quarterback.

It had been Mac Jones, kind of shifted to Tray Lance toward the end. We thought, is it that? You know, we're thinking, is it something along those lines? No, ends up being Aaron Rogers and his feelings toward the Packers. And, of course, we know how that all turned out. But that's what I find really interesting about the adventure that breaking news is on this show, whether it's a tweet handed to me via paper, or whether it's just a, there's something coming.

We don't know what it is. Let me ask you about your background. You were very into ballet growing up. up, how into ballet were you? I was really into it. It's funny because I started as a three-year-old taken ballet, which is always hilarious. I was really interested in music, too, so played instruments growing up and loved the whole world of the arts. And then when we moved to Orlando, when I was a teenager, 13-ish, there was a ballet company where we lived that I really just became dedicated to. And we had a teacher who was from Shanghai.

And so she devoted a lot of time to me, taught me a ton. And I realized, wow, I really love this. I think I want to do this. But 13 is really late to decide that in the ballet world. So I had a lot of catching up to do. I love the performance side of it. I love the technical side, the commitment to the craft. It takes so much dedication and so much work.

And she was really, Ms. Paulina is her name, Paulina Zoo. She was the reason why I started thinking, maybe I want to be a professional dancer. she ended up going to China. She was going anyway. So she took me with her when I was in high school and spent some time over there, studied at the Shanghai Theater Academy. That really honed my technique to where it needed to be. And when I came back, I went to what is now called the Kirov Academy,

but it's a ballet boarding school in Washington, D.C., went there for a brief period of time, then went back to Orlando to finish high school as a senior and was dancing regularly with the Orlando Ballet at that point. thinking, yeah, this is what I'm going to do as my job. What changed your mind? A few things changed my mind. I think the realization that even though it was a dream that I had become obsessed with,

I've always been pretty realistic and pretty hard on myself. And there was a lot of even literal looking in the mirror and saying, as much as I've worked on this, I'm not at the level of a principal dancer. I'm never going to be a soloist. I'm going to be a core dancer in the Nashville ballet. which, by the way, great accomplishment, but I felt like there was a lot more that I wanted to do. And my parents had had me applied to colleges in the state of Florida because that's where we had residents. And so I could get in-state academic scholarship. So I had applied to Florida and Florida

State. And my mom said, let's just go visit these. At the same time, we're flying all over the country auditioning for ballet companies. And I was making it like right to the edge and then I wouldn't get the contract. And so I had a couple opportunities, but I realized I need to go with something that's going to be a little bit more serious, something that's going to be a little bit more committed to what I'm probably capable of, even though I didn't really know what that was. And so at the last minute, I decided to go to Florida. And it was kind of because we started, as we were traveling around doing the ballet stuff, we started seeing gator stuff on everything, like on people's cars. We felt like it was some sign. And that's why I ended up choosing UF. That's interesting. So you thought you could do it

professionally, just not at the level you wanted to do it at professionally. Yeah. And I realized I'd have to have a supplemental career even just to survive, which is true for a ton of ballet dancers. You don't make great money and you're kind of living paycheck to paycheck and you might have to have an additional job. And I thought that's going to be a pretty miserable life, especially for someone who truly, I mean, growing up, my mom as a master's in education, she homeschooled me for part of the time. I really loved writing. I loved academics. And I felt like I'm probably giving up a great opportunity to go in a different direction. And I also knew maybe I could still dance, which I ended up doing. I danced the whole time I was in college. Really, the last time

that I performed was when I was 24. So I was able to carry it on a little bit further than at least giving it up right before college. You told me before the show today, when you were at the University of Florida, you gave tours of the campus and sometimes tours to football recruits. What were those tours like? I was a Florida Ciceroon, which is the campus tour guide. And it was funny because when I took my tour. And you know, at this time, of course, I'm thinking, wow, I'm about to give up my biggest dream. And so the tour really made an impact on me. But this is really a big deal, these people giving these tours. And so I really wanted to be a Florida Ciceroon. So I started doing that. And then they said, well, there's an opportunity to also help out with the football program. You're going to give tours and you're going to sort of host the recruits. I realize

some people think of that in a certain way. I was with the families. So I was really good with the moms. I would take them around campus. I would spend time with them. We would actually go down on the field. It's funny, my first football game at Florida in the swamp, I was on the field. So it wasn't even in the student section shortly after I ended up starting my job with the radio station. So I really never went to a Florida game as a fan, which is wild. Anytime I've been back there, everyone's like, how do you stop yourself from cheering? And I'm like, I never really got that fun time. Like, I never really cheered in the swamp. So anyway, I would be down there on the field with them. And, you know, even sometimes at Urban Myers' house went there and really saw kind of

the ins and outs of recruiting, which when I was trying to find a niche in the football slash sports world, that was part of the reason why I chose college football recruiting is my focus. You mentioned the campus radio station. What led you there? It was an accident. My friend in my sorority, actually, I was in Zeta Tel, uh, Kristen Giannis, who I really looked up to, she was already doing a lot of news work and worked for a local station there. Gainesville as a junior in college, I believe. She said, she knew I was taking all these ballet classes and I was trying to earn some extra money because I had started to use up my scholarship on the ballet. And she said, well, I think the on-campus radio station would take you. She literally

said, you have a good voice for radio. And at the time, my voice was a lot higher pitch, too. So it's funny that she thought that. But she said, I think they pay like six bucks an hour. And I thought that was big money. I thought, wow, I'm going to be rolling and dough here if I go and make six bucks an hour. And I went there and met Steve Russell, who to this day is somebody that's been invaluable to me in my career. He's still there. And he said they had one opening. And I thought, cool, I'm going to do NPR radio. This is going to be awesome. And I'm going to be doing news stories and storytelling, which I had grown up listening to so much on radio. And they said it's in sports. And I didn't even think and just said, yeah, I'll take it. That's great. And I will never.

never forget the feeling of walking out of there that day, taking a little elevator down and thinking, I don't know anything about sports. What am I doing? This is going to be a nightmare. And it was for a long time. This was a morning drive show in sports. It was called Cheap Seats, I believe. The Cheap Seats was what I eventually got to. I started with the two-minute updates. And even those, I had many misadventures. A lot of times forgetting to press the button to go on air. is just like two minutes of dead air. And Steve's in the other room saying, come on, you know, what's going on? I think I'm doing the broadcast. But even my first shift, I thought I had signed up for 5 to 9 p.m. but it was 5 to 9 a.m. So that's how I got on the mornings. 3.45 a.m. as a

college student for many years, that's what time I woke up. And then the cheap seats was the afternoon show. But so much fun. We didn't have many callers. I actually had my college boyfriend would call in as chewy and just do Chewbacca noises. And that was something that we enjoyed because we were so desperate for anyone to call into the show. But the very few people that did call in was great training for live TV because I had to think on my feet. And you're ripping off hot takes about the Gators? What are you doing on the show? Yeah, some of that. We covered all of Gator sports, but that show, the Cheap Seats, was more geared toward high school football. And that was one of the reasons why I fit well with it because at the time I was trying to find a niche and

decided it would be in college football recruiting, which as a lot of people remember in the 08, 2009, 2010 time, college football recruiting became really interesting to fans. And it became this world of these subscription websites and this sort of paywall information. And so I realized there really wasn't much of a female presence in it with my work on the chief seats that was more geared toward high school. And then, of course, the guys that Florida was recruiting for football, it was a natural fit to move into that world, except all of a sudden I realize I've got to figure out the scouting side of football. And it really was me going up and down the state of Florida, going to seven-on-seven camps. I actually just found a photo the other day of me at one of Amari Cooper's seven-on-seven camps before

anybody even knew about him. Alabama was one of the early teams in on him. But it was via the recruiting grapevine of someone saying, hey, there's a really good Y receiver who's not getting a lot of attention, needs to put some weight on, but you should check him out. And that was the world that I was in that ultimately got me a lot of probably earlier opportunities than I would have gotten at that age. And you're writing for one of these pay websites? I wrote for a few of them. So fight and gators.com. There was a South Florida newspaper website that I wrote for, gator country.com. They kind of gave me my first opportunity on TV, which was like internet TV, but we did a little show that we broadcast it out of a garage.

And so that was sort of the world that I was in. And they were all great because they would let me write for anybody. There was no exclusivity. I'm just a college student, but they knew I was going to put in the effort and probably not asked for that much pay because I thought I've got to grind on this and see if I can learn it and, you know, be worth the money that they would maybe want to pay me down the road. So, yeah, I wrote a ton. I think writing is the biggest foundation of broadcasting. And so at the time, I didn't want anything to do with TV, but I look back on that time as really helpful in what I would ultimately do. Now, I say this as a subscriber to one of those sites for like 20 plus years. But the recruit interviews strike me is incredibly hard to do because the recruits always

say the same, oh, you know, I felt the family atmosphere. They, you know, coach really dug what the coach had in store for me. So how did you get information out of a 17 year old football recruit? They're so awkward. They're such awkward interviews. And it's, it's not really on the recruit. It's on the person asking the questions because you're thinking, how could I possibly relate to this person who's so much younger? I do think early on, I had an advantage of being. a college student. So I'm able to say, you know, I'm not that far off from you in age. I was able to speak with them sometimes in a way that maybe other people couldn't or maybe just be a little bit more relatable from that standpoint. And I talked about my college experience currently,

you know, not talking about Florida specifically, but just being in college and using that. But, you know, listen, for me, it was more about the high school coaches a lot of times, getting information that way, also making connections in the recruiting world. And there's so many people that are involved in those situations now way more than there were back then. But I found it to be more about presence and showing up all the time and being there and learning from people and saying, all right, so I noticed this at that last seven on seven. Why are you guys doing this now? And at this Nike camp, now it's become about this. So the interviews were not Emmy Award winning by any stretch of the imagination, but they were in a way, I think, what got me noticed at that time because I was putting out information and putting out, interviews with some big names that other people, you know, maybe even hadn't interviewed or hadn't gotten the quote unquote top five schools at that time. It was ever changing, too. I look back and think, you know, the amount of times that I was wrong about where the person was interested in or they told me the wrong thing and how it would just eat me alive and how I would

take it so personally. And there were a lot of times in that frame where I thought, I don't want to do this because this is too difficult and this is too upsetting when people look back and kind of blame me and say that, you know, I was wrong. It was tough. Like that that time was really difficult. Also managing class at the same time as a college student. Right. Right. Well, writing for fighting gaiters.com. Exactly. What was your first job in TV? So my first job in TV was the pre and post game reporter for the Tampa Bay Rays. And it was with Fox Sports Florida. It actually began the spring of my senior year. So I was still in college at the time. And I had done an internship with Fox Sports Florida the previous summer. It was the first big name internship I had ever gotten.

I tried so hard to get ESPN, Fox, ABC, CNN, all of them. And nobody would take me. And so I finally, I sent this one guy, Jeff DeMoss, probably like 70 emails. I'm not even exaggerating. Like, come on, man, just give me a shot. Let me just be an intern. Finally, he let me come on. And then all I did that entire summer was basically copy DVDs. So I felt like it was a total waste. Then toward the very end, they let me start to do a few things on camera. And I also looked at their website,

and I was like, there's nothing on here at all. Like, you guys aren't updating anything. So I offered to write position previews for Florida and Florida State. I was already writing so much. I was working for Scout.com. I was doing all of that additionally. They let me do it. They published the articles.

And I do think that was the reason why they came to me and said, hey, we need somebody for this role. It's only going to be home games. Can you do it? And of course, I said absolutely yes. And then I thought, I don't know how to be on live TV. So this is going to be really bad. But Joe Madden was the manager at the time and was so wonderful to me, knew that I was

eager to learn, but knew that I had a lot to learn and really invested a lot in teaching me baseball from his perspective. This, of course, one of the early times when Saber Metrics was becoming so prevalent in the game. and so much of that's changed now with Major League Baseball, but he taught me a ton about it. This is before the game. He'd just pull you aside.

Yeah, totally. He would bring a lot of us in just to talk about the game or to explain why he would do a lineup a certain way. And, you know, there were a lot of times, I mean, you think about him in that time and with the raise and, you know, especially like that magical Game 162 that year in 2011, I believe, he would oftentimes put a guy who was really, struggling, he'd put him at leadoff. And we'd all be like, why are you putting this guy at

lead off? He's hit in 2-11. You got Evan Longoria, you're not going to put him at lead-off, but you've got all these players who are way better. And he'd say, well, because I know if I put him at lead-off, he's going to hit a double in the third inning when we really need it. And sure enough, like, almost 100% of the time it would happen. And so some of it was analytics-based, but a lot of it was instinct-based. And I learned a ton about the game from him and forever, thankful that he would even spend the time to help teach me and then some of the other young reporters too who were there. This is an incredibly busy period in your life and career. So 2011 to 2014. Now tell me if I've left anything out of this list. Covered Recruiting for Scout.com.

Yep. The internship at Fox. Reporting for the raise. Leave and eventually work for Fox Sports in California. San Diego. San Diego. Win the Miss Florida page. Yeah. Go to CNN and get hired by ESPN and the newly formed SEC Network. That was basically it. I also got married during that time, too. 2013, I got married to my husband, Josh. So, yeah, that is a wild stretch. I haven't thought about it that way. Thank you for putting it in a little timeline version for me. And what were you telling people that you wanted to do professionally during that period?

So at that time, I thought I wanted to be something on TV. I didn't totally know. I was interested in ESPN. In fact, I came to interview at ESPN. I basically came to meet with a bunch of people when I was 24. That's when I was at Foxport San Diego. So I was doing Padres reporting and then fill in pre and post show, Padres Live. And I took that job because I thought no one else at 24 is giving me a chance to actually host.

And I didn't know how to host, so I needed to learn. And so I thought, I'm going to learn and be really bad and hopefully I'll get better. And anyway, came for an interview at ESPN during that time. And I'll never forget, there was a person here who's no longer here. And it's totally good now. We've talked through it. Who said to me, well, it's great that you're here, but you're not going to get hired by ESPN until you're at least 30.

And I thought, well, golly, I'm 24. Like six more years. You know, that's a really long time. But it always, I think, is the case for a lot of us in this business. there are so many great media companies. But when you think about what is your everyday sports information, what's your everyday world where you want to turn the TV on and see what's going on in sports, you turn on ESPN.

And so I do think it was, it felt to me like a pipe dream at that time, but it was something that I did vocalize to people close to me. I want to work at ESPN. So I think at that time I was saying, you know, I want to be in TV, but I also want to work at ESPN. And that's why now that I think back on, why that upset me so much it was going to take until I was 30 is I thought, man, that's a really long time to have to wait. I ended up getting hired by SEC Network when I was 25, so it ended up being

not the case. I waited a year. I waited a year. And I read you say that you also deluged everybody at ESPN with email. I did. I'm, you know, don't give me your email address because apparently I'm a crazy emailer. I was trying everything I could to get in touch with people here. And when I, you know, come for those meetings. I had met a few people here, but none of them were really connected with the SEC network. And so I had gotten some names of some people, one of them being Steve Ackles, who ended up hiring me or being part of that process. And so I was sending him a lot of emails. And it was funny because I had given up on it. That's when I started working at CNN. I was hosting World Sport on CNN International, which was an incredible departure from everything I had always done,

and then filling in sometimes in the sports role on HLN. So kind of cutting my teeth with Robin Mead and trying to figure out what on earth I was doing there and just covering all kinds of news-related sports stories, which harkened back to kind of my investigative journalism training in college, just really cool, actually, to sort of flex that muscle or at least work on it. But I thought, I'm going to work for CNN. I had even gone to the local station there in Atlanta in 2014, 11 alive, because some people had said, well, the reason why ESPN's not hiring you is you don't have local experience. I had kind of gone straight to the regional sports TV world. So did that for a little bit. One man banding covering girls high school soccer and got a flat tire in my mom's car. And I'm thinking,

what am I doing? You know? And so they called me. Steve Ackles finally emailed back and set up an interview in the Atlanta airport for the SEC network just maybe a few weeks before the network was launching in 2014, August of 2014. And I thought I've got no shot. They're interviewing me in the airport. This is, you know, going to be a mess. There's no one. And I thought I bombed the interview, got a call a couple weeks later that they were going to bring me on for a sideline role. It was a major downgrade role-wise from what I was doing at Fox Sports. But I thought this is the only time I can sort of jump off a cliff and bet on myself. And it was a dive off a cliff that I'm still very thankful for today.

Glad I did. Would you learn doing sidelines? I learned to speak in headlines and very quickly turn information around and deliver it. And it took me a while to learn that. I look back at some of the work that a lot of the people at SEC Network did to help me get better, even things like, hey, you're starting every single report with the word well. Stop that. Just start.

And then I'm thinking, wow, I really do that every single time. And some tough feedback, but feedback that I was so ready. for and that I wanted. And I'm, as I've said, really critical on myself. So a lot of times I already sort of knew when something wasn't good. And I wanted it to be better. But sometimes you need the tools about how to get there. And so I learned a lot about how to be a serious sideline reporter. And then there was a bit of a shift that happened probably two years into my SEC network sideline world where I was told by a peer that I was too serious on the sideline. And I thought, wow, you're right. And, you know, they're like, you're really funny outside of this. You're really fun.

You've got a great personality. Why do you never show that? And I thought, well, it's probably because I'm really nervous. And I'm out here thinking, I'm going to make a mistake and I'm going to lose my job and all of the concerns that, you know, you have in general, but especially as a young person in the business. And so all of a sudden, I just started smiling more and having a little bit more fun. And I look back on those times in like the 2015, 2016, 17 range as being real pivotal in my career here at ESPN because I think they finally realized, oh, you know, she might have a personality. There was a moment. 2017, you're doing a Kentucky-Mazoo basketball game. Do you remember this? Yes. And the Missou crowd is chanting, Cal you suck to Kentucky's coach John Caliperi.

And you decide to ask him about it at halftime and how does he respond? That did not go well for me and it was funny because he actually didn't respond. He just walked off. And it's funny because you bring that up and still to this day, that moment makes me cringe almost more than any of the other mistakes I've made. And it's the ironic thing about it is some people thought it wasn't a mistake. Some people were like, that's great that you did that. You know, they loved, oh, she was going after Cal and I wasn't. The background on the story is pretty crazy. We were at shoot around that day. And Coach Khalid said, you guys probably underestimate this Missouri student section. Like, they're loud, they're crazy.

This is a tough place to play. I filed it away. I thought that's interesting that he said that. You know, I'll keep an eye on it. Well, sure enough, for the interview, we're positioned right in front of them. I promise you, I did not know what they were saying. Couldn't hear what they were saying. But they're chanting something.

It's really loud. I'm thinking, wow, he mentioned this earlier how crazy they can be. I thought, I'm going to do it. And this is like a, I mean, half of a second decision. He's already basically walking away. I then asked some ridiculous question about, you know, what does he think about that? How's he supposed to answer that question? That's why it's a mistake, right?

It's not necessarily a mistake to ask about something happening in the environment, but what's he supposed to say, right? Yeah, it's bad. So then immediately, I'm getting, I mean, I don't know that I've ever gotten more hate for anything in my life. I've had to work really hard to win back Kentucky fans. It's taken years. And I love them. I mean, Big Blue Nation, one of the best fan bases. But it was a real low point for me because then for the rest of the game, I'm just beating myself up and thinking, why did I do that? And I've got to still do the game. I still had to interview him at the end of the game, too. And I'm apologizing. There's actually a photo of me apologizing where you see him saying, you know, it's fine, whatever. In his post press conference, he actually mentioned it and said, leave her alone because it was that bad. He knew even at that point how bad the hate was.

And, you know, it was just a thing that didn't have to be asked. So I look back on it and say, huge learning moment for me, but also something that I think happens to all of us in those quick decision, should I go for it or should I not situations. Because those questions are not workshopped with producers. Never. Never. And that's a common misconception. I mean, I shouldn't say never because there probably are times early on with younger reporters that you go through, hey, maybe let's ask this or let's do this. But no, especially when you've quote unquote earned it, I guess, they say, go out, do your thing. You know, keep it simple. Do your thing or whatever it is. Or maybe you go to them and say, hey, I'm thinking about asking this. And producer will suggest something and you kind of work through it. But most of the time, it's up to you. And one of the things that I would say is a skill of mine as a sideline reporter is listening and following up and reacting to things going on.

I've had a lot of success with that. But this was a moment where that wasn't the right thing to do. Around the same time you start sitting in on entire episodes of the Paul Feinbaum radio show. What was that experience like? It's a time that I'm forever thankful for because when you have a show named after you and that is completely all about you and what you provide for fans, you don't need a co-host. You don't need a sidekick. You don't need someone sitting in there. And yet Paul said, I will open this studio for you.

I will let you sit across from me. I will let you take calls. while I'm sitting there and not even saying anything. He provided such a platform for me to not only just have fun because I love the callers and I enjoyed it, but also to prove something, to prove something to myself, to prove something to our bosses maybe, to prove something to a fan base in the SEC that I love so much,

and then just college football in general. And yet it was also an amazing time getting to know him and spending time with him and seeing all of the things that he does that I appreciate and forcing him to try to eat things. and making jokes with him and talking about music, our love for 70s music and all the things that we have in common, that it's kind of odd. I realize there's a generation gap,

but yet I feel like we were meant to be friends from the get-go. And he would say that when he first met me, he just totally forgot about me and had no idea who I was. But I was convinced that we had to be friends. And so I worked on that a little bit. And then truly it was another turning point for me here at ESPN. end because I think people realized, oh, okay, you know, she could maybe hold her own in that type of difficult platform. You said proving something. Was that what you were proving that you could hold your

own? I think so. There were many times when we would get callers who had been Fimbombeam regulars for all these years. And they're like, what is this girl doing on the show? And like I referenced, he doesn't need me on the show. He's Paul Feinbaum. He's done this show for all these years without anybody. And they would oftentimes attack things that I can't change. Like, because you're a woman, you don't know anything about this. And because of this, that and the other, you didn't play the game and all the things that we see in tweets. But this is happening real time. I'm on television. I'm on the radio and someone's calling and attacking me for just being there, right, for just the presence and that just irking them so much. And so to be able to handle that, I think, and to sort

of stay as composed as I possibly could, although sometimes, you know, I'll watch back and there's like a quiver in my voice because I'm thinking, I can't believe. I'm not. I'm having to defend this, but yet I understand why I have to. And it even changes, even if it changes just one person's mind about me and other women, it's so worth it, you know? But just being thrown into that fire, I do think, proved a little bit to maybe some of the people who were watching. And someone told me you were flying to Charlotte to, on your own dime to do these shows. A lot of times driving. I would drive from Atlanta. And then I would pay for my hotel and pay my way to do it. I felt like if Paul would invest that in me, then I should invest it back in the opportunity I was getting.

And I think as much as maybe it's not the most fiscally responsible thing to do, that's always been how I've tried to handle my career. I'm constantly shocked by the opportunities that I have and so grateful for them, but also feeling like I need to pour into them just the opportunity itself, right? And the people who have given it, if I want to get anything out of it and if I want to make it worth their way, while I need to keep showing up. And so I knew that that part of it was was really important to me. And I'm also, once I've committed to something, I'm like, I'm not giving it up. You know, so if I said I was going to be there every Monday and Tuesday, doggone it, I'm going to be there, you know. And I felt like I was gaining so much from it, too, that it was well worth whatever was spent on those hotels and some of those long drives. That's the same year you become the host of

SEC Nation, which is the SEC Network's Saturday pregame show. How'd you get that, Joe? I still wonder that. I think I had probably shown them that I could host, and I was already on the show as a reporter. So I had some experience being on it and knowing the culture of it. And I was really trying to push our SEC network bosses to give me more opportunity. And so Maria Taylor had moved on to another opportunity and the host seat was vacant. And I had really expressed I wanted to do it, but I also had tried to get as many SEC now. hosting reps as I could to say, look, I can do this, I promise. And then yet I still had no idea what I was getting into. And it's actually funny because at the time, I had gotten to know Joe Tessitore, who had been the original host of SEC Nation. And he was wonderful to our family. And he said, okay, I'm going to do a little hosting camp for you. You're going to come over to the house with Rebecca and Nicolina and John. And we're going to go through watching tape and learning how to host this show. He gave me all of his documents.

I mean, Rebecca's standing there, who's such a wonderful woman, she's standing there watching this like, oh my God, what is he doing? And he's just so amazing going through every single line of how he hosted the show, watching back film, how it looked on TV, and really teaching me how to do it. What an incredible investment by him in someone who really would have had no idea what I was doing on a show like that because it's totally different than an in-studio show. It's live. It's on location. It's like a live event. You're talking to the crowd. You're talking to the fans at home. You're with the analysts. You've got all these things going on. I would have had no idea where to even start. And he gave me an incredible gift with that. But I've now been able to take the information that I got from him, information from other hosts, my time with Mike Greenberg on Get Up and all these other people and say, let me take pieces and then let me make it my own. And that takes a while. So the very first year of SEC Nation, I was trying to host the show as Joe. Tessitore, which I am not. So it was, it was interesting. And I'm thankful that they kept,

they let me keep going after that. And now I'm able to sort of do it my way. Now, what does that mean hosted as Joe Tessitore? Surely you're not doing the full voice. Not doing that full, big voice. I couldn't do it if I tried. He's got the best voice in college football. But I, hosting it like him means you have boards. I mean, you have like game boards. He hosts the show like he calls a game, which is thoroughly prepared. And he would even have, which I still do this too, he would have all of the names of the things on campus. Because a lot of times we would come back from break with a shot of a statue or something like that. You didn't know what that is. Because the fans at home, the Georgia fans at home say, why aren't you referring to our arches the right way or whatever

it may be? And so just knowing the campus in that way, I mean, details like that, that I had no idea would be as important as they were. And that would be hosting a show like Joe Tess. Yeah, because if you get one thing wrong, it kills the credibility with fan base. Yeah, you can't do it. It's a no-go. You literally cannot get anything wrong.

With college football fans, with NFL fans, I mean, it's why all of these fans are the greatest because they do care that much. And as much as sometimes when you're on the other side of that, you think, man, these fans are ruthless. They deserve that. and we should bring them the right information. So I take that very seriously.

You got this show two years ago, and why keep hosting SEC Nation even after you got this show? Because it matters to me, and it means something to me, and it is truly like a family to me. I actually keep the original release when the PR team put out that I was hosting SEC Nation, I keep it readily available on my phone. If I ever have a day of thinking,

wow, this is a lot of work, or maybe I'm like feeling sorry for myself. I mean, geez, feel sorry for yourself. You get to work and talk about sports. As much as it's a crazy schedule, come on, you know, snap out of it. And I'll remind myself just what really felt like my first big break and my first big opportunity. And so I will host that show as long as I am physically able to host that show because it really matters to me. And I additionally love the SEC, see, but I think it's more about what it means to me and what it means that those people took a chance on me. A lot of them are still there. And, you know, I mean, Tim Tebow and I talk about this all the time, the fact that we're sort of the two, he's even more original than I am, but we're sort of

the two that have stuck together for all this time and I care about the show like we do. That's never going to change. I was struck by something you said to the Tampa Bay Times after getting an FAA live. You said, I think women, especially in male-dominated fields, we need to accept that we're ready. We need to accept that and internalize that power and use it for the greater good. What was that process like, accepting that you were ready? I still struggle with that daily. And it's something that I think is really important for us to do as women because the second that we decide, we're good. We're good to go here.

We're prepared. We know so much about this. We love this sport. then no one can take that from us. I think I always say one of my favorite quotes is, no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Eleanor Roosevelt said that. And the amount of times that I have let others make me feel like I didn't know what I was doing or make me feel like I wasn't deserving or worthy or in a situation because of things that have nothing to do with why I've gotten any of these jobs, the amount of times I've let that infiltrate my brain and then it's

affected my actual work are too many to count. And I can always, look back and say, why wasn't I very good that day? Or why did I make this mistake? Or why did I not sound like myself? Well, it's because I let something that somebody said affect me. So I think for me, getting to the point of truly saying, I belong, I need to announce that to myself. I need to announce it to other women. Now having a daughter to, just trying to set that example and saying that we are positively talking about ourselves as women, it's so important. It's not as much as humility is great, and I firmly believe in that. And I'm probably sometimes too much about the self-deprecating. I go too far there. We need to be proud, and we need to be proud of the progress

we've made and make more by continuing to show that we know we belong. The people planning that thought in your head, those are viewers, fans, people in the industry. All of the above. And yet, by the same token, I have so many that have done the opposite. You know, our NFL Live group, It's a lot of men, right? We've got a great female presence on the show with Mina Kimes. But Dan Orlovsky, Marcus Spears, Ryan Clark, Kishon Johnson, Adam Schefter, they support us. They treat us as equals. Mina and I always talk about this.

And she's such a rare, cutting edge, true trailblazer of a talent. I can't overstate how important she is to the space and how much she matters and what she's brought to the table. So she's in a different category than me, right? because she's a true analyst and she's a true game changer in so many ways. But yet, Mina and I always talk about how they have supported us so well. And there's never a moment in a football conversation with them that I feel lesser than. And so as much as there are those doubters and they're everywhere, right?

I mean, the amount of times I'm on a plane and I rarely would get recognized, but if somebody does and they'll say something like, oh, do you really even like football? Like, what do you think I'm doing here, man? Like, yes, I do. And what a novel concept that women love football just as much as men. But I also love to give credit to the guys who build us up and who continue to support us as true lovers of the game. And in Mina's case, an analyst of the game. Is college football talked about in a different way on TV than pro football?

I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. Now, I think some of those lines are starting to blur with some of the changes in college football and things becoming a little bit more pro-based. And listen, as much as I'm a college football purist as a lot of people are, I also understand that things change. And so we are going to see the college football game, I think, become a little bit more like the pro game. But one of the weird things about all this conversation around college football is so much of it's happened all of a sudden. And it's happened mostly in the off season. I do believe that when we see the college football product again,

which is coming up very soon, we see that again on the field. A lot of the conversation will be about that and the tradition and just the atmosphere in college football, which is great as the NFL atmosphere is. It's a different type of atmosphere. College football has its own brand of excitement. So from that standpoint, I do think we will always speak about college football and some of the almost nostalgic way that you think about your college days. That's synonymous with the college football world, whereas the pro world is a lot different. Yeah. Whenever I watch Saturday at football, I'm always struck about how much Chris Fowler and Herbie are just explaining who the players are to viewers, even huge fans of college football. If I watch an Alabama game,

I'm going to know three or four people, you know, maybe five or six on the team. Whereas you're watching NFL, I know who all these people are that you're talking about. It's just from a very basic point of view. It seems like that's a huge difference. Yeah, it's a really good point. I think that's one of the reasons why in college football, oftentimes, we're more geared towards storytelling. So it's more like, hey, you may know five players on this team, but here's why you should care about this person and that person where in the NFL world, we're not really doing as much of that. I mean, you're doing a little bit of it, but the game's faster. So that's one thing. Pace of play matters, right? We can't be talking over a ton of plays telling stories.

But I think, I think you're right. I mean, it's just the nature of the beast. You're not going to know, there's so much changeover in college, you're not going to know, hey, this is who everybody is on a certain roster. And especially in the world that we've been in these last couple years with COVID being prevalent and things changing as it relates to players moving all over the place and the transfer portal, there is a bit more explaining that's needed, you know, to a fan who's watching who may not know as much about what's going on, whereas the NFL world, I mean, the NFL has mastered the ability to be in the news constantly. And it is truly a year-round league. I feel like I can say that more than some people could say that because I'm oftentimes hosting this show. NFL live, you know,

daily as our news show on ESPN around the league. And there's always something to talk about. So it is. It kind of hits you over the head a little bit more with knowing who the players are and knowing their stories, too. There's almost not as much explanation needed. There's no shortage of football talk on TV. So how do you make NFL live or how do you want to make NFL live different? I think for us, the key is saying, here's your NFL fan who's interested in things. And we serve that fan who's just interested in what's going on in the league. Right. So we're thinking. about them, we're getting news out, we're keeping it fast pace. Then there's your fan who wants to become smarter. And I think for us, we're really geared toward that fan. How can we make

you smarter? How can we take this to the next level? How can Mina come in and say, well, the past block win rate is what's really going to matter here? And then how do we show that with Dan Rolofsky's ability to get on the touchscreen and literally teach someone something that they would not know and can now go to their friends and say, this is how I'm watching the game, because now I know this based on Orlovsky's touchscreen about Baker Mayfield or whatever it may be. Marcus Spears and his great personality. So entertaining people that may not even be football fans. I can't even tell you how many times I hear from people who don't even like football who enjoy the show

because it's a bunch of friends hanging out. Ryan Clark, who's one of the most talented people in media, the way that he is able to communicate is just beyond all belief. And then, of course, the news with Adam Schefter, I think it all marries up to gear toward a smarter NFL fan or a fan who wants to become smarter, learn something that they're not getting anywhere else, but then yet we can reach the other people too who just want to be entertained or people who may just be passing by and we're just trying to keep them tuned in and hope that they'll tune in another day. It's a constant balance that would not be able to happen, if not for our crew

and our great producer Mark Isman, Michelle Rosenhouse, Susan Smith. I mean, we have so many great producers on this crew that really are kind of the beginning of it. The amount of times that Mark is getting a text from us at, you know, midnight or something saying, hey, what do you think about this with Justin Herbert tomorrow? Let's try this instead. And it doesn't happen if everyone's not bought in on making fans smarter and just really being proud of being able to do that. In May, 19 students were murdered at Rob Elementary School in Yuvalde, Texas.

You came into this studio the next day and thought what? I didn't want to be here because I, and that's a rare occurrence for me because I love being here. I wanted to be at home with my daughter because I thought I don't want to ever let her go. I can't imagine the pain that those parents were going through and those families were going through. And when we were planning the show that day, even in the morning in our first meeting at 10 a.m., everyone was down. Everyone was talking about it. And, you know, we talk about football on the show, right? But one of the things that I've been proud of is our ability to talk about things that are going on in the world that are affecting everyone.

And I was really thankful that that day they gave me a platform to say something from the heart. And, you know, we had talked through it. And I said to Mark, our producer that day, I said, I just need 30 seconds. And he said, no, I'll give you as much time as you need. And to know that he had that trust in me, to know that he, He valued whatever I was going to say. He didn't even know what I was going to say. Hadn't written anything in. I was just going to speak about it. To know that he valued that way gave me the ability to feel strong enough to go forward and say something. And of course expressed that we needed regulations and that saying, oh no, thoughts and prayers just wasn't going to be enough. And so that was a meaningful day for me for a lot of reasons. But mainly the main thought was just feeling so. awful for the families. That was all delivered off the cuff. Some of it I wrote down because I wanted to make sure I didn't forget anything, but a lot of it I actually changed and kind of rolled throughout.

And I tried really hard not to get emotional. It was impossible because I really started to think about it as I was talking through. Sometimes you can deliver something on TV without thinking about it and you can get through it. And I've done those before too. There was an awful story about a woman who was flying on a plane to LSU and passed away in a plane crash in the year when they won the national championship and got the breaking news and had to deliver it. And then almost broke down in the commercial break because I thought, I can't believe I just talked about someone's daughter and wife, you know, who just passed away in this plane crash. And just things like that where you can sort of power through. And this one just wasn't that for me. I was visibly emotional because there was just no other way to go about it. What's your weekly schedule like during football season?

So during football season, Monday through Thursday in Connecticut hosting NFL Live. And throughout the week preparing for SEC Nation. So lots of meetings and things like that. And then Thursday night after NFL Live, I fly to wherever the SEC Nation site is going to be, get there at some hour of the evening. and then Friday morning start off with a lot of SEC Nation meetings and prep, then NFL Live meetings, host NFL Live from the SEC Nation site, which is really cool. Actually, you have the college football and the NFL world kind of collide.

And then a lot of times go on Fimbom that day on Friday, lots of different shows and things like that. And then Saturday morning, host SEC Nation on location, fly back to Connecticut Saturday afternoon and try to stay awake for some college football that night. But a lot of times I'm like nodding off and my husband's elbowing me like, Alabama just scored a touchdown. And then Sunday is technically a day off, but it's a day spent watching games, of course. And then also planning a lot of what we're going to do on Monday's show

because Monday's really important for us here on NFL Live. So you're one day off a Sunday when you were basically required to watch NFL football. Yeah, which I, you know, if my ideal, day off ever happened, it really would be sort of just like sit down and watch games all day. So at least there's a bit of that, although it's usually more like I'm chasing a toddler around and trying to figure out what we're going to have for lunch and dinner and also, you know, watching the games and preparing. But I love for Sundays. I mean, you probably see my smile right now. I'm getting so excited just thinking about Sundays again and being able to watch these games and just even like

our text message back and forth on our group chat for the show and just the things that. And just the things that happened real time, sort of what everyone's thinking and Orlovsky's sending us a million videos of him breaking down plays, like, on his phone and his kids are in the background and we're like trying to figure out what he's saying. But I just live for that. I look forward to it. You said many times that ESPN, you say yes to everything. You have said yes to every. Yes, I'll do that. I'll go to the goaddy.com bowl. I'll do this. I did that bowl. Yeah. I love that. When are you going to start mixing in some strategic nose with ESPN? Good question.

My problem is I can't think of anything I want to say no to. And I had to say no to things like gymnastics and softball, which meant the world to me. And some of my closest friends were in the softball world. And, you know, those knows, I think, affect me more than the yeses. The yeses are easy for me. It's more like, all right, just power through and maybe you're not sleeping much or maybe, you know, you're on your feet a lot and you're traveling a ton. And it's actually the nose that bother me, that I look back and say,

is there any way I could mix back in a trip to Oklahoma City for the Women's College World Series? You know, and I loved being in Omaha for the College World Series. So as you can tell, this is why I have issues with saying no, because even right now I'm like thinking, who can I text and say, hey, I want to get back on college softball? I don't know. What is there to say no to? I'm so lucky to be able to do this.

A couple more. SEC has been, you mentioned, the big news in the off season, we now have two super conferences in college football. You excited about that reality or sort of upset about that reality? Yeah, you know, I will say from the SEC standpoint, I'm excited to see what the competition level is like and really excited to see Oklahoma and Texas in the league. But I do wonder, when does it ever stop? How do we regulate things? And that's where I think, you know, you hear some of these. college football coaches get criticized for saying, well, college football is precarious and there are all these issues. And I think it's because they care about the game. And I think all of us do, right? People who love college football, we want it to be okay. We want it to be great. And a lot of this

and what's going to happen, I do think is dependent on what the college football playoff does and the expansion. And so for me, you know, what I'd like to see is if the college, if and when, the college football playoff expands, it does create more opportunity somehow for teams that are not in these super conferences while still somehow preserving the competitive balance and making it a competitive product. Because that's what we really want to see, right? We want to see good games. We want to see games that we never forget, that we say, hey, remember that catch that changed everything and everybody knows what you're talking about. And that's where I think we're in a tough spot and watching the way that college football is going to change. So overall, I'm actually,

good with it because I think it's better for the players in a lot of ways, but I want to make sure it's better for the players. I want to make sure the players are getting fairly treated and compensated for potentially having to play extra games and potentially putting their bodies on the line in a way that they didn't have to before. How do we manage that, right? That's what concerns me. How do we manage making this the best product for everybody and yet still valuing the people that bring us that product? And at the end of the day, it is the players. You mentioned working at CNN. You have any interest in working in news again? I do actually. Yeah, I would love that. I mean, to me, here I go again, like saying yes to things, but I loved the, I love watching the news.

I watch all different networks. I love seeing how people present news and how people present different stories. And it's particularly interesting in this day and age is there's many different ways that stories can come across. But for me, it all goes back to storytelling and it all goes back to connecting with people. So if there was an opportunity that allowed me to do those things, I would love it. And, you know, I think there's a lot of sports, especially sideline reporting, but even when it comes to hosting a show like NFL Live where news is prevalent, and the amount of times when stories are really not even sports stories, but they're more news stories, I think are becoming more and more common. And a lot of times I am thinking back to

my investigative journalism classes at Florida and the times when everything I did was way more news-based, even though I was trying to convince them to let me do stories on National Peanut Butter and Jelly Day most of the time. But I do value that world and I'm very interested in it always. Laura Rutledge, thanks for coming on the press box. Thanks for having me. So fun. It's time for the second.

Weekly edition of David Shoemaker guesses the strained pun headline. Yeah. Tuesday's headline about status symbols of the super rich was the haves and the have yachts. Today's headline comes from valued listener Mark Lamster. It's from the Dallas Morning News, Mark's own paper. It's about the band Zizi Top. Year ago this month, David, Zizi Top bassist Dusty Hill died. The band could have broken up, but they're still going strong.

What was the Dallas Morning News' strained pun headline? Um. Take yourself away back here. Um, hmm? They've got legs? Yeah. Is that it?

You got it. Zizi Topps got legs. Pretty damn good. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty damn good. It's not unusual that we start, you rack your brain for like the biggest hit by whatever artists we're talking about

in this game. But it's very rare that the biggest hit is just such a, such a winner for, you know, such a good opportunity for a great pun headline. No judgment. But could you have named two ZZTOP songs? Yeah. Tube Snake Boogie.

Oh, right. Right. They had a lot of, like every sexual innuendo from your childhood, they basically had a song named that. Yeah, they had a number of songs, a number of big hits. They promoted someone in, inside the group to be the new bassist and he had to grow his beard out. I couldn't do a fake beard. What if he had a bad beard?

I don't know. I mean, that's just part of the bit. He is David Shoemaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Production Magic by Erica Servantes. We're back soon with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then, David. See you later, Brian.