The Press Box - How ‘Crazy Rich Asians’ Director Jon M. Chu Earned His Spot | The Big Picture (Ep. 513)

Episode Date: August 17, 2018

Ringer editor-in-chief Sean Fennessey sits down with ‘Crazy Rich Asians’ director Jon M. Chu to talk about his development as a director and how his personal experience as a Chinese American inspired him to make this movie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We didn't have the biggest budget. So when the movie's called Crazy Rich Asians, we can't be crazy moderate Asians. And Kevin really screwed me by writing in a lot of description in that book of the opulence and the labels and the things. And that's what a lot of the readers love. I'm Sean Fennacy, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and this is The Big Picture,

a conversation show with some of the most interesting filmmakers in the world. If you're listening to this show, you've probably heard about Crazy Rich Asians by now. It's been hailed as the first Hollywood studio production to feature an all-Asian and Asian-American and cast since 1993's The Joy Luck Club. It's a historic film. It's also an energetic, clever, and fun romantic comedy,

something we don't see much in the movies these days. The film's director is John M. Chu, who at 38 years old, has already made eight full-length features, including a Justin Bieber documentary, two installments in the Step Up franchise, and a G.I. Joe sequel. He's had an unorthodox road, but Crazy Rich Asians feels like he's reached a destination. The adaptation of Kevin Kwan's 2013 best-selling novel examines complex notions of assimilation, class, and the ramifications of family responsibility. But it's still a party movie bouncing from one lavish setup to another.

I talked with Chu about his fast rise to Hollywood success, the difficulties of making this movie, and the burden of a historic cultural act. Here's John Chu. I'm really excited to be joined by John M. Chu. John, thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. John, you have this historic movie, Crazy Rich Asians,

and you've been talking about how historic the movie is for a long time, and I want to talk about that a little bit here. But before we do that, I want to talk about John Chu, the filmmaker. and I think you were an interesting moment in your career before this movie came along. And I kind of wanted to talk to you a little bit about where you found yourself and how you were thinking about making decisions because you had made a few sequels. You had made obviously this very successful Justin Bieber documentary performance film. Where did you think you were going to go before Crazy Rotations came along?

I think I didn't know. That was the issue. I think I was very blessed getting into the business. I got right in from college. I had never done commercial. or music video. I'd only been on a couple sets. And my own set in school was just students.

So through all these years, getting thrown into the studio world, not independent world, like literally studio world, for last 10 years, I think it was my eighth movie in 10 years. You have to learn on the job. And I think as an artist,

you have to go through the ups and downs of being an artist before you know who you fully are and what you want to say. And I was young. I got into the business. I was 22, 23 years old. My first movie by 26, 27. How did that happen?

That happened. Steven Spielberg saw my short film. I had a short musical at USC, and it got out. There was no internet at that time. I mean, there was internet, but there was no YouTube or anything like that. So it was through DVD, VHS, got passed along and reached him, and he called me one day. It was the same week that Dawson's Creek ended, and Dawson gets a call from Stephen Spielberg. I remember that because, like, this is really weird because he's in his office and he gets a call from him.

Had you always related to Dawson? Yeah, me and Pacey. And, yeah, we had a, no, I, so it was very interesting growing up as a filmmaker in the studio world. And you feel lucky just to be there and you're just trying to stay alive. You're trying to swim. And luckily, my movies were working. And, you know, they've made over a billion dollars for companies. and I didn't get any of that.

But I got a little bit enough to survive and have a good life. My friend, my very close friend, she would always say to me, you know, John, you're really lucky. You have like, you're very ish. I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, well, you're like, people know you, but you're like famous-ish. Your movies are really popular. They make a lot of money, but you're like, they're like popular-ish.

And I'm like, what? Like, this is not a nice thing to say to a person. She's like, no, it's great. You're like, under the world. radar, but you're like right in the middle. I'm like, I don't know what to take. So at some point, I was definitely like got in my head and I was like, what am I doing? Like, what am I contributing to a medium that I love that I fell in love with? Like, what are movies to me? And if I'm not pushing anything, if I'm not adding value of why I should be in this business, then this is not

going to last very long and what and and who am I as a human being. And now I'm 38 and getting married and having a baby and all these things thinking about what I want to pass on. And so I decided to go after something that really scared me, especially after Gem in the hologram, which nobody saw, but I'm very proud of the movie. It's a good movie. I agree.

Not everybody agrees, but I agree. And at that time, when you go through that, when nobody goes and literally nobody sees your movie, you have to look at yourself and see, why am I doing this? Why do I feel so sad about that? Do I do this so that audiences give me feedback? Do I do this for box office numbers?

And in that examination, I realize that, no, I make movies because I have to make movies. It's a part of I grew up making stuff to release the stuff that's in my life. So that's why when people ask me, what movie do you, was your ultimate movie that you want to make? I don't have an answer because that's not the way I, that's not my relationship with movies. My relationship with movies is whatever I'm going through,

I get to create something in the moment that exhales that stuff. It's like breathing. And so at this point after Now You See Me Too, which I loved, I worked with some of the best actors in the world, and it's a big franchise, all this stuff. I guess I felt a little bit like, what am I doing? And so I went on a search for what I should be exploring, and one of those things was my cultural identity.

The last thing I wanted to talk about, if you're the only Asian in the room, you don't want to talk about you being Asian. So I read a lot of scripts from China. I went over there several times from here, but nothing really spoke to me until I read Crazy Rich Asians. And again, I'm not because it's the crazy rich part, But the idea of this Rachel Chu character, an Asian-American, going to Asia for the first time, was something I fully related to.

Not knowing that going to your sort of homeland, your cultural homeland was going to have an impact on you. And suddenly it does. And then realizing this warmth that you feel there is something you haven't felt. And then they also call you Guiloh, which is like white devil. So I'm like, all right, I'm neither here nor there. And then you get home and you have to almost choose a side, which is unfair. And so you shame one side of yourself. You don't know that at the time.

And so this dealt with that thing that I'm the most scared about talking about. Had you had that specific experience? Had you been called White Devil? Yeah, that's what happened to me. Guilo specifically was when I went to Hong Kong for the first time. That was like 15 or 16 years old. Before that, when I went to Taiwan at 10 years old, the idea of this place that you're treated like family in a store or a restaurant,

I'd never experienced that kind of thing before. So it was eye-opening, and you think you're the only one. I thought I was the only Asian-American. I didn't even get the term Asian-American. I thought I was just the only kid who felt torn between these two ideas of the American way, which my parents instilled in us, which is America's the greatest place in the world. You can do anything if you work hard and love it and make yourself happy. That's the most important.

Follow your dreams. And then the Chinese side, which they also instilled in us, which is your happiness doesn't mean much. Defend your family, love your family, and sacrifice for them. So these two things were very opposing ideas, and you feel very lonely in that. And so you just ignore one instead of confronting it. Those themes are literally the themes of the film, too.

And it's not really in the book a lot. There's a lot of other things in the book. But when it came down to why this story appealed to me and why I felt very connected to it, my most present movie, I would say, I was going through this at the same time. That's what I followed. Rachel Chu.

Yes, it's a romantic comedy, but it's not about getting Nick. It's about her own finding her own self-worth and coming out stronger than she ever could before. I always call it like the dragon that gets birthed within her. You said that, you know, you didn't want to be in meetings and drawing attention to the fact that you were Asian and making the conversation about that. Did that change at some point? And why specifically do you say that? I mean, is that reflective of when you were in your 20s or was that true even like two? years ago. It's weird. I didn't think about it a lot. I just wanted to be a filmmaker. I wanted to

be Spielberg. I want to be Tim Burton. I want to be compared to those filmmakers, not Asian filmmakers. And when you talk about Asian filmmakers, it's a misnomer because there's what does that even mean? What does Asian mean? There's so many, we like to put it in a box of just the Asian people. But actually, there's so many layers of what Asian is, who are Asian people, Asian Americans, Asian from Australia, UK, from China, from Singapore, from the Philippines. Philippines, everyone has their own journey. And so I think that box that was always framed for me was so broad that I just didn't want to, I didn't want to have to explain anything and I didn't want it to be put in that box. I just, if we're talking about story, let's talk about story.

If we're talking about this, let's talk about that. And when people would make fun or make a joke about being Asian, you're expected to kind of laugh along. If you're the guy who's like, that's not, that's actually really offensive. Everyone's like, right, right. That's the, why is he so sensitive. And you get used to this way and you get used to just going along when they tell you the statistics of, well, you know, box office says that, you know, if you put someone in the lead that looks like that, half of the world isn't going to go see this movie. So don't you want people to see this movie? And you're like, yeah, of course. And you start to believe this thing, especially when you come in so young into the business and you're being told this is how it is.

You have no arguments. There's no reference point, no movie to take to show them and prove to them. And they're like, this is our, you know, the marketing people are like, this is how it is. What's interesting is the internet changed all of that. The internet now, the audience gets to talk back. It's no longer numbers that get drawn out of some back pocket that you don't know where that number came from. Now it is the audience saying, this is what we demand. And the cinema, frankly, is under attack by all sorts of distractions of gaming and

internet stuff and streaming, that the cinema, the extra energy to go, watch in the movie needs to have more purpose to. And movies have always been the place for rebels and troublemakers. That's where, like, you can't tell these stories in any other format. This is where, like, you throw down, you bet big. And that's sort of gotten lost by all the conglomerates buying up all these places. Everyone's being very safe. And I love superhero movies. Don't Get Me Wrong. And everyone's killing it in that. But that spirit of the rebel spirit of a filmmaker is still the power of film. This movie would not be this on fire right now in pop culture if it was just streaming.

And I love Netflix. I think you get eyeballs right away all around the world. But cinema still has a place in dictating culture or showing culture its widest form what should be exalted, what should be seen as beautiful, what should be seen as that you aspire to be like. And I think that's an important message, especially with this movie. that we put it on that big stage. Movie studios are like the most old-fashioned of any of those things.

So Netflix is way ahead of it, actually. I've heard you talk a little bit about creating the comp, essentially, that in the future studios will use this film as a comparison point to say, this is why this movie works. Crazy Rich Asians made X amount of dollars. It had this critical response. People loved it.

Now you should make an action thriller with an all-Asian cast, something like that. But what about for you personally, has making that change where you're using, not using, but sort of focusing on your identity as a point of telling a story, as using that as a sort of a breakthrough moment. Is that, was it difficult to make that change? Are you comfortable? And is that something that you think you'll be doing in all the work that you do going forward? Well, one, I'm not the one who makes up the rules of what they're going to use as a comp or not.

I'm just, I know this business. When people complain about Hollywood, I'm part of Hollywood. I'm very much raised by Hollywood, so I'm in it. And so I'm partly to blame for all of that. But knowing how Hollywood works, knowing being on the inside, they will look at this movie. Unfortunately, it's the only one to show what a movie like this with this cast can do. So I understand the reality of that. And so that's why the numbers of opening weekend and how much box office is important in that. It doesn't mean it's going to stop if it doesn't do well. It's here.

Like the storytellers are here. The executives are here. It's going to happen. So I'm not as worried about that, although it can help Joel. things forward and can help really open the doors for a lot more now instead of waiting. In terms of my own journey, this experience has awoken in me, the same thing in Rachel, my self-worth that I earned this position, that I skipped dances and lost relationships and friends over the years because I wanted to make movies. I wanted to do this. And it's all worth it.

but I did earn this. No one's letting me do this. And with that power, I think you feel, okay, then what do I want to use in this power? And if it's to tell bigger stories that haven't been told or find the stories that it's really my own journey of saying, okay, enough of trying to be a movie that I saw as a kid, now let's go out into the open where we don't know where the journey may take us and let's explore. But if this project has told me anything, is those roads are the things that the audience is most interested in. Let's take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors.

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Now back to my conversation with John Chu. There's been so much conversation about what it took to get this movie made and representation and all the significance historically. There hasn't been as much conversation about actually making the movie. Yeah. I'm wondering, you know, how you feel about that. And also, like, what was challenging about actually making this international rom-com? Yeah.

Well, when I understand why, you know, the top five questions are about the bigger picture of this movie and what it means. So I'm more than happy to talk about those things. But when you talk about it 80 times, of course, you want to get into a little bit more of the nitty-gritty of we're filmmakers. This is a craft. And there's a team effort in doing that. So I enjoy talking about how difficult it was. It was not an easy movie to make. Of course, Warner Bros. is a great partner in this.

They really, when you have Kevin Sujihar at the top of the studio as your partner in this, it changes everything. marketing, executives. Everybody knows how important this is to the studio. That alone changed everything for me. But I think that the sort of the process of making it in another place, that's always its own. I've made movies in New York and New Orleans and London. It's always a challenge.

Singapore and Malaysia specifically, it's hot, it's sweaty. Our movies called Crazy Witch, and So You're supposed to show people really glamorous, which they don't look that glamour. cameras when they're sweaty and their hair is all wet all the time. So we had, it was very, our whole team had to be right there, right on top of it all. You're using local crew that are used to making soap operas and things and don't know the Hollywood way necessarily. It doesn't mean they're bad.

They just have to learn. So these men and women learned real quick. And it was great to have people who poured themselves into it like that. And also learning for us, my side, my, also my head's department. some of them who weren't from Singapore, who weren't from Malaysia, had to embed ourselves in that community. And what was great about this movie is because it's about Asian Americans coming into Asia, we could use that perspective to our advantage as a point for our movie to learn as you went through

and to uncover these things. So that was a whole experience that we changed by the end. Was there a moment when you knew that it was going to work? Because it really works as a real rom-com. I mean, it's just a really effective, entertaining, fun movie. Was there a time when you were, because I suspect there was some, you know, some curiosity about whether everybody was going to be on board and everybody was going to understand what was happening here. Was there a moment when everything clicked while you were shooting? There was a moment.

I didn't know if it was going to work necessarily to audiences yet. But I knew, one, I knew when we got our cast that the potential for it to work was high. When you get a great cast, that's like 80% of my job. You know they embody these characters. They get it. They're confident. they're going to give an honesty, even though they're over the top,

each of them have an honest place of that character, which is key to any story you're trying to tell. I think the moment where I knew all these different tones, because there's a lot of different tones, a lot of broad comedy, there's like subtle comedy, then there's like very dramatic, almost soap opera moments, and then there's very earnest moments.

And so how do all these characters live together in one scene? My biggest fear was we're going to have to cut five, of these characters because there's just so many. But when I knew that it was going to work, we had like a two and a half minute oneer at a Tyrosol Park where Nick lives, where Rachel comes in and meets all the cousins. And we did this oner that you walk around the whole space

and we're weaving in between characters. And all the characters with all their personalities collide. And it was the only moment. They were sort of all in the same room and saying lines. And so I knew if we could get that vibe, we would know that all these tones stitched together and that would make the tone of our movie in a way.

And so you would laugh, you would shudder, you would do all these different things in this one, two and a half minute winner. So when we rehearsed it, it was very difficult, but when we shot it and it was so hot that everyone wanted to get it done. It was a full-on team, casting crew had to work as a team.

And when that worked, I knew that the first big sort of rock was in place. One of the things that's fun about the movie is it um it really is sort of opulence porn too you know aside from all the other was it fun to try to show glamour at this at this height uh yes and no we didn't have the big we didn't have the biggest budget so like when the movie's called crazy rich agents you're like we can't be crazy moderate Asians and kevin really screwed me by writing in a lot of description in that book of the

opulence and the labels and the things and that's what a lot of the readers love for me it didn't move me in the book. I loved it. It was great. It was visual, but I didn't, labels don't do anything. I don't even know half the labels. So for me, the journey was the real thing. And so we had to shift that a little bit in our, in our movie. But the stuff, of course, we have to deal with it, fashion, all that stuff. But because our movie really focused on the outside coming in, I think that gave us a little leeway to have fun with it, but not make the movie about crazy rich Asians. It was about Rachel Chu seeing how ridiculous this place is, maybe being seduced by it a little bit, but sort of being spit out and then having to find herself.

In a way, it's great Gatsby-ish with Nick coming into that and observing this world. How much has the reaction to the movie been what you expected? Because obviously you knew you were doing something that was important and that it had not happened in 25 years, but there's all manner of praise and controversy. What did you expect once you cut the film? I'm honestly shocked by the emotion, the genuine love and support that I've been getting from not just my community, but beyond. I've always felt outside of my community. I've always felt like I'm looked at it like, oh, that's the Americanized guy. That's the guy who doesn't ever talk about us or never does anything.

So to feel the warmth and love of that in return, I don't know, there's something beautiful. beautiful and I've never felt, I say, I've said this a couple of times, but I've never felt pride, real pride before. I understood intellectually what that means. I maybe even described it for myself in certain things. But seeing that cast on the big screen, people I love and have gone so close to her family. And each one is on fire. One's, they're so funny in different ways. And others are so dramatic. And Michelle is just so iconic and legendary. And Constance is just this force to be with. And Henry is just so natural and such a great presence, a true leading man in the most classic sense. It makes me so proud. I want to show it to everyone. And I've seen this movie so many

times. I rarely want to go watch my movies again. But this one, I just want people, I think if they see it, they get it. You can't unsee all the different layers of how Asian people can be all around the world, not just Asian-American. So to me, that sense of pride is brand new. I'm only in the last two weeks. I was saying this also. I cry every four hours reading somebody's response to the movie. Never in a million years would I feel this kind of fervor. I thought that maybe we have a little market and people would discover it. But this is, the pride feeling is, I don't even know, I don't know where that came from. It's an amazing feeling. I get it for the first time. You have these two tracks.

On the one hand, I saw it with a big group of people, and they loved it, and it was huge, big applause after the screening. And then, on the other hand, there's all this expectation that is larded with the release in the movie. So, you know, for you, how are you defining kind of success once it gets out into the world? I think that's twofold. I think, you know, after Gem, I had to come to terms with why I'm doing this. and I had to break myself from the idea of box office numbers and reviews.

I just was like, I'm not doing this for that. So from now on, I don't get moved by those things. But you still follow them? I look at a little bit of it. I have not read a lot of the reviews. Even though we've had, I think we're at like 98% right now, and it's definitely by far the most well-reviewed of movies I've been involved in. I haven't read a lot of them

on purpose. I don't, I just want to enjoy the ride that we had and let the audience speak for itself. Twitter, it just gets delivered to your face and you can't really avoid that stuff.

You're keeping an eye on your mentions. Yeah, something like that. But for me, I think the success is one, the response already is a success. That is absolutely, as a filmmaker, as an artist, we won already. I think the box office, though, is beyond our movie. Our movie is a little part of a bigger movement to say to the studios that new perspectives, diversity, these stories are the new cinematic universe.

You can do all the franchise stuff you want, and that's going to be great. But like I said, movies have a tradition of breaking molds. That is our responsibility as filmmaker. That's the responsibility of studios to be that voice. it does affect the everyday lives of human beings that get treated certain ways or get looked at in certain ways. We know that when there's someone who looks like

Leonardo DiCaprio and Leonardo DiCaprio and Leonardo becomes a huge star, people who look like Leonardo DiCaprio suddenly become really popular in high school. People who look like Kim Kardashian suddenly become really cool in high school. It becomes a sense of beauty. We determine those things.

So you need Henry to be the platonic ideal. So we need all the active male actors in our movie to show that they're all, anyway, I don't know. I just think the number, the box office now sends a message. And so I hope that beyond our movie that that box office number is high

because it's not about our one movie. Everyone's like, this can't represent all Asians. Yeah, it can't. It's one movie with one set of characters based off a book that existed two years ago. Like what do you want me to do include every, like that's not even possible. That's the exact problem of thinking

that Asians represent one group of people. This needs to crack that door so that other stories, everyone else's stories who want to be, who need to be told, and I don't blame them for complaining about it. I blame the system for not allowing those things to come through. And audience needs to show up to those. But if this cracks a door for those four or five stories so that we can build off of those four or five stories and get ten more stories, then that's what our big victory would be. What's it like to be judged for something that is representative rather than what you've actually made? Because, you know, you've probably gotten good reviews and bad reviews in your life.

those things are probably not oriented around kind of the meaning of the thing. Yeah. What does it like to be thinking about it in that context now? Well, I never make movies to mean something more. I have to be very on the ground. I have to make sure that I care about this one character going through this one journey or this group of characters going through this one journey. So I've never felt even when you do franchise stuff,

step up movies, Justin Bieber, G.I. Joe. The audience, the fandom, wants, has some very, personal, emotional connections to those things and certain details. So I've had to cut myself off from that, listening to a degree, but then not listening because there is a certain point where I have to tell a story and I've got to stay focused on what story means to an individual and how, me in particular, because I've got to see it from the beginning to the end. So that's what I focus on as much as I can is just, I'm sitting around a campfire. I'm going to tell you a story about this, this woman who finds herself through this,

journey to Singapore. How do you grow as a filmmaker when such a huge part of your public persona now as part of something that is a movement? I'm curious, like, how do you challenge yourself, figure out what to do next, but not necessarily get hung up on everything, all of the noise that surrounds a big release like this? Well, the noise is the noise. Like, that's not what I do. The noise is great because it maybe brings interest into the movie. I am a storyteller. I make movies. I'm going to continue to make movies that people pay for, pay me to do it or not. So I just have to focus. What I found in this project in particular is find things that stir that creative side of me. When you start making movies, you have 100 ideas. After eight movies, those ideas

start to get thin. And then you have to live again to find how you get your brain to turn on again. This movie turned that on for me. And so I think the job is to find more things, live more life, be aware of human beings around me, not about just the work. So I can find more things to communicate to people around the world that hopefully that they find that there's someone else who feels that same thing. What's exciting about developing in the Heights? Your next movie. In the Heights.

So Crazy Rich Asians, and in the Heights, actually, I joined at the same time. I didn't know which one was going to go first. Crazy Rich Asians, we saw the opportunity as we went. In the Heights is really a story of immigrants, of America. And it's a beautiful, I mean, Lynn Manuel Miranda, Miranda, how can you complain about working with that genius. It's been great. And to tell this joyful story

of what it means to find home here and what it means to find community here and what it takes to, as you go out into the world, leaving your community, what are you taking with you? All those things, especially when the immigrant story

is under attack. That's what I'm most excited about is finding the truth in a musical, which again, as an added sort of sing to the starzy tone, But that when you make it into a movie, what's going to resonate is not the big sing-to-the-stars moment. It is when you look in their eyes, are they speaking truth? Are they connecting to your experience wherever you come from so that you plug in and you root for these people?

And that's when I think of that movie, of course I think of the big numbers. Of course I think it's going to be a fun spectacle. What do New Yorkers dream about? How do you make New York not the, how do you make Washington Heights not the set piece, but their dreams and what they, and how this place turns into a wonderful, delightful place within their dreams, that is what I'm more excited about than anything. Yeah, I saw the original run of that show on Broadway, and it really does feel like kind of the culmination of all the movies that you've made.

You know, there's something very kind of synchronous about doing that movie. Yeah. John, I end every show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing that they've seen? So what is the last great thing that you have seen? The only thing on the top of my head right now, I would say is the staircase

because I'm obsessed with it Really? Yes I like the staircase Are we talking about the new episodes The entire run? I watched the old run

But I watched the new run Again Okay Or I watched it this time And caught up With the last two episodes They added And of course did my research

On the owl theory Don't look it up If you haven't watched it Just watch it It is so fascinating Just personal theory Did he do it Did he not do it?

I honestly think it was the owl. I can't. Why are there feathers in the gut? I don't know. I can't see his closest family members say it's not him. I don't see it in him. He has never wavered in my mind.

It's a fascinating mystery. Maybe you can adapt that to a fictionalized version. John Chu, thanks for doing this. Thanks. Thanks again for listening to this week's episode of The Big Picture. If you want to hear more about crazy rich Asians, May I suggest you visit the ringer.com where you can read Jane Who, writing on the movie and its comparisons to Black Panther. And also Donnie Kwok, East Coast Bureau Chief and All Around Good Man, who's writing about the film.

And also to all the boys I've loved before, another film starring an Asian American woman and seen from a new perspective in Hollywood. That's running on Netflix this week. And for more on movies, please check me out. I wrote about the Oscars and that radical change that they made last week regarding the popular film category. You can see that on The Ringer.com. Today's episode of The Big Picture was brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. People could get hurt or killed.

You could get arrested, incur huge illegal expenses, or even lose your job. If you think drunk driving is no big deal, you couldn't be more wrong. Drive sober or get pulled over. Learn more at nhtsa.gov.