The Press Box - How Is ESPN Covering the Finals? Plus, a Chaotic Week at The Washington Post and the Art of the Awkward Interview.

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Hello, media consumers! Bryan and David kick off the show with sounds from a couple of awkward interviews (1:05). Then, they get into the following topics: Reactions to ESPN’s halftime show criticism (9:31) Doris Burke makes television history (18:07) JJ Redick’s upside as an announcer (20:42) Later, in the Notebook Dump, they discuss a chaotic week at The Washington Post (33:01) Plus, the Overworked Twitter Joke of the Week and David Shoemaker Guesses the Strained-Pun Headline. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David Shoemaker Producer: Brian H. Waters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. It's the Maskman David Shoemaker. It's a new era in professional wrestling, and that means a new era here at the Ringer Wrestling show. Kaz here, every Monday and Thursday hang out with me and my guys' shoes on the Masked Man show. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal and Brian on Tuesdays for Ringer Wrestling worldwide, where we hit on the most interesting headlines and even react to some of Maskedmans and even your hottest takes. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling show feed now on Spotify. or wherever you get your podcasts. Worldwide. Hey, Brian Curtis here. As soon as we recorded this edition of the press box,

we got a woge bomb saying that Dan Hurley has turned down the Lakers' head coaching job. All the points we made about J.J. Reddick and his announcing career stand. We'll just have to see how much more announcing we get to hear J.J. Reddick do. On with the show. David? Yes. I want to start with. two very awkward interviews.

Sounds great. You and I are students of the awkward exchange between famous person and journalist. Oh, yeah. So let's pick these two apart. The first one comes from the UK. And it involves Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. Mm-hmm. He committed a political blunderer, I guess you'd call it.

A gaff would imply he said, the wrong thing, but he just did the wrong thing. Last week was the 80th anniversary of D-Day. As you can imagine, David, the ceremony in Normandy was kind of a big deal for European leaders. King Charles was there, Joe Biden, the leaders of France and Germany, and Rishi Sunak decided to leave early. And he left early, he explained, and I am not making this up, because he was going back

to the UK to do a TV interview. Okay. Now, the PM himself had just called for elections, which are going to be in a little over a month, actually less than a month from now. So you had him leaving the D-Day ceremony early, and when they were taking pictures of all the foreign leaders posed together saying, we must remember this moment in history, we must go forward remembering the lessons of World War II and D-Day. he was not in the pictures.

So here's where the awkward interview is come in. He goes back to the UK. He has to face the music for his decision. You're going to hear the PM talking and then listen to the question he gets from Sky News. I had the honor and privilege of speaking to many of them and their families, hearing their stories, expressing my gratitude personally to them.

But I'm someone who will always admit when I've made a mistake. That's what you'll always get from me. Absolutely, Prime Minister, you sound more exasperated than apologetic. These men made the ultimate sacrifice, and you couldn't even sacrifice a whole afternoon. Ken Hay, a 98-year-old D-Day veteran, told us that you let the country down. Is he right? I participated in events both in Portsmouth and in France over two days.

Listen to how the interviewer was just high-horsing that question. Oh, yeah. You couldn't even give a whole afternoon to the men who gave the ultimate sacrifice. A 98-year-old D-Day veteran. What do you say to this man? Here's another cut from Rishi Sunak's very awkward interview. But I'm very happy to admit when I've made a mistake. That's what you always get from me.

One of the conservative candidates standing this election for the party that you lead has just told me your actions show a disdain for the armed force. and disdain for them and their colleagues. They say you don't understand patriotism. I'm told some are in tears at the way you're running this campaign. What do you say to that? These are some tough questions. Your own political allies say you don't care about patriotism

and are moved to tears by this fact. Was that specific implication that is coworkers, that the other politicians have been moved to tears? apparently needless to say Joe Biden has not fielded questions exactly like that

no during this presidential campaign all right David that was awkward interview number one let us go from the beaches

of Normandy to the BMW charity proam for interview number two this was on the golf channel

now a proam is fun for TV because you get to interview non-golf celebrities on the course. And a course reporter named Lauren Withrow was going to interview former University of Texas quarterback Vince Young, the great Vince Young. Brian, you might have to jack up the audio here so we can hear this exchange, but it became clear pretty quickly that she was not interviewing Vince Young. Six seasons in the NFL, arguably one of the best NCAA quarterbacks of all time at Texas, picked up golf about 40 years ago. What's the biggest shift you make going from the ultimate team sport to now the ultimate individual sport?

Now, I apologize. I'm Everett Sands over a city level, so, which I'm a football coach. All right there, Ryan. She is speaking to Everett Sands, who, according to. to his bio, David, is the offensive skill specialist at the Citadel. He's an assistant coach. Now, this happens. It's understandable that things get confusing. During the tournament, you try to do an interview on live television. But the big problem here is nobody knows what to do.

The reporter doesn't know what to do because she's got the wrong. person. Do you soldier on? Do you just cut off the interview right there? And more to the point, Edward Sands, the assistant at the Citadel does not know what to do. Is he supposed to keep talking? Even though he clearly is not the person they want to interview. So listen to how they handled the situation. This is terrible.

But the thing is, the great thing. thing about golf is I'm not only competing against myself, but I'm competing against everybody else. This is your first program I've ever played, and what's the best part of being out here? Well, being out here is a great thing. And I have an opportunity to play with some professional golfers is a intimidating thing, but also a great thing.

Good luck this weekend. Yeah, I appreciate it. So it feels like we're soldiering on with the Vince Young questions there. Unless she just happens to know that this is, is also Everett Sands' first pro-am. Well, she obviously wasn't familiar with him, so maybe he'd been there before she would know who he was.

I also love the extremely generic answer from Sands. Being out here is a great thing. At that point, you're just trying to play it so safe. Yeah. Give an interview, allow the network to cut away. I've got to say, one of my fears,

when I have journalism dreams, this comes up. I'm not kidding about this, is interviewing a famous person and not being sure which famous person I'm interviewing? Yeah, yeah. Yes.

The stuff nightmares are made up, yeah. When I was on Radio Road, the Super Bowl this year, I saw Dr. Oz, Senate candidate and TV doctor, Dr. Oz, and I remember going up and being like, I know that's Dr. Oz.

I just watched a ton of clips of him for press box purposes. Mm-hmm. but I had to turn to a woman who was part of his entourage and say, I'm sorry, is that Dr. Oz? So she could confirm it to me. And then we had a nice conversation at the end. I said, oh, who are you?

And she said, I'm his wife. Considered it confirmed after that. All right, David, coming up on the press box, we have got a big porzinger size segment on the NBA finals, a huge occasion for Doris Burke. ESPN was going to lose another analyst to coaching, but now it's not, and a check-in on ESPN's pre-game show. Plus, we revisit a very chaotic week at the Washington Post with its publisher and now former executive editor, and our only in journalism segment takes a tonal shift.

All that and much more on the press box, a part of the ringer podcast network. Hello media consumers, Brian Curtis, David Shoemaker, and producer Brian Waters here. We're two games into the NBA finals, David. Mm-hmm. Dallas Mavericks against some other team. We'll let those NBA podcasts at the ringer handle the results because I don't want to talk about it. Game three coming up Wednesday night. And from the start of the finals, there has been a lot of criticism about ESPN's halftime show.

Mm-hmm. Which is not really a halftime show. it's more 20 second long content nuggets positioned around commercials. Yeah. It's like the popcorn shrimp of studio shows. Popcorn shrimp can be an entree, but I could take your point. I would like to pivot away from the halftime show while acknowledging that the critics are all correct. And talk about ESPN's pregame show last night.

So it's Sunday night. The Celtics are up. one game to none. I believe that's the way we decided we would talk about this. One game to none. Yes. This was the ESPN pregame rundown. Segment one, Jason Kidd is playing mind games with the Celtics.

Then they went to a commercial. Segment two, an update on Dan Hurley, will he be the next Lakers coach? Then they went to a commercial. And then finally, segment three, what do the Mavs, due to even the series. We finally got there and two different people argued that Tim Hardaway, Jr. needed to step up. Tim Hardaway Jr. would go on to play zero minutes in game two.

Yeah. So I'm looking at that strange lineup and I'm like, where have I seen this kind of topic selection? And with Stephen A there, excuse me, your mind immediately goes to first take. this is debate TV but then I thought about a little more I'm like no no no this is not just debate TV this is Twitter you've got the Jason kid

press conference cut that's a tweet yeah it's true you've got the woge bomb definitely a tweet and then you got the wacky opinion where we somehow start talking about Tim Hardaway Jr instead of other players

who were actually on the floor for the Dallas Maver Has Twitter just rotted everyone's brain? Yeah. So that when we're doing a pregame show for the NBA finals, we're asking ourselves, what are people at home looking at on their phones, and how can we address those issues? Well, I think that that can, first of all,

let me say off the top. When they're getting ready for the finals, a lot of the commentary was, you know, these players better get ready because they don't know what it's going to be like to be under the media glare of the finals. It's like the conference finals

are one thing, but there's going to be 10 times as many reporters, maybe more. You know, it's a whole different thing. What went unsaid was that these,

you know, this ABC broadcast better watch out because now when the finals come around, people like us are going to be watching the pregame show,

not just the halftime show. People are paying attention to the whole package, you know, not just the stuff you catch incidentally. But yeah, I mean,

this is the definition of like that halftime show could have been a tweet, You know, I mean, it's, it was, it was, it was, it was, the pregame show, sorry, that they, there was, it was, it was very minimal, and very, just sort of, you throw your hands up, you know, the post game show, I thought was pretty insightful. Josh Hart was out there, you know, you had Bob Myers making some good points, Michael Wilbon. And notably no Stephen A at the desk for the post game show. Right, right. I'm guessing he had to go, you know, get some rest. He is a human, after all. But yeah, it was, I mean, I wouldn't just put it on him. I'm not, you know, it wouldn't be so quick to do that. But, but, but it was, it was, it was, it was notably different.

And, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, we, I guess, I guarantee that the conversation is that the viewers don't have the attention span, um, for more in-depth conversations, even as much as we would scream and cry about that not being true. And that certainly seems like the way it was broadcast. Just think if you're a normie basketball fan who's not watching. a ton of NBA and you come in for game two. The question at the top of your mind is, hey, the Mavericks got killed in game one. Yeah. What can they do to win game two? What can they do to get back in the series?

You don't have to overthink this. You just have to have your basketball experts address the question. Yeah. And I feel TV is never worse than when you feel this anxiety of the medium. We're not the thing people are looking at. Yeah. The thing they're looking at is their phone. And ESPN, by the way, has been just done this for years now.

Let television, excuse me, let Twitter become essentially their coordinating producer and pick all their topics. Yeah. We're addressing tweets on television. Mm-hmm. It's just really, really funny. The crew that announced the game, Mike Breen, Doris Burke, and JJ Redick also got a lot more attention. Starting with game one and even creeping back into the Eastern Conference finals. I want to hear what you think.

I thought they were better and crisper through two games of the finals. How did you feel they did? I agree. I mean, I don't know that they were necessarily responding to the criticism, although of all of the things that we talk about, to complain about, it's certainly conceivable that broadcasters of this level of talent were able to respond directly to,

or immediately to the sort of critiques that people were hearing. and people were airing, and presumably that they were hearing. And I think it says a lot about them, you know, I mean, they're all obviously very good at what they do. It's just just sort of like finding the right tone, finding the right rhythm to call the game. And knowing when to just be calling the game and when to be, you know, floating with your, floating around their interstitials or, you know, whatever else can, whatever canned points that you have. It certainly felt like there was less, there was more attention being played to the game and also just sort of more, you know, just deliberation. You know, there was, honestly, there was just less to comment on, which is exactly kind of what you want out of a, out of a game like this. I guess that if they got one note during the playoffs, it was, and I'm talking about the analysts here more than Mike Brean.

to come in big earlier in the game. Yeah. Because there were games, you know, in previous rounds where Breen would feel really big at the beginning. He'd be using his voice to tell everybody at home, this is a huge game. This is incredible. We are excited to be here. Yeah. And then his analyst would be really quiet.

Yep. Or just kind of powered down before sort of getting into the flow in later in the first quarter, second quarter. if you noticed last night, there was a PJ Washington 3, JJ Reddick's all over it. Hey, that was a non-corner 3 from someone other than Luke and Kyrie for the Mavericks. This could be big

tonight. Yeah. I don't know if it turned out to be big. I kind of don't think it did. But you can see him just being like, I'm going to pick something. I am going to jump on it. I'm going to adhere to the Tony Romo principle where I have to tell the audience through performance, not through

smart basketball points, but through performance, that I am excited to be here and that this is a huge game. Yeah. Yeah. And Dorisberg too. I mean, I think that she seemed, she seemed more eager to get it up at the front. I mean, not as quite, it's deferential to, you know, JJ or even Mike Green. And, and yeah, I thought overall that sort of, if that's a note that they got and that's what they responded to, that boost in energy up top. it made a big difference.

It also sets the tone. Like I said, you don't notice it as much when there's, I mean, literally sets the tone. When we're, when we just start with the volume at six or seven, then you're not, so you're not shocked, you know, at the eight minute mark that something, you know, it spikes. Absolutely. Whole series has been a big moment for Doris Burke. With game one, she became, and I'm going to quote ESPN's words here, the first woman to serve as a game analyst on television for a championship fund.

in one of the four major professional U.S. sports leagues. We're television's important there because she's called the NBA Finals for the ESPN Radio. She herself has called them, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Here was her partner, JJ, after game one. I do have one final word.

And I just want to say how proud I am of my teammate, Doris Burke, who made history tonight calling this NBA finals game. Look, I'm a newbie at this. I called my first tonight. It's meaningless in the grand scheme of things, what she did tonight is historic. I am so proud of her.

I love you. It's so great working with you. Don't make me cry. You know, you're the best teammates. Yeah. I mean, and what a great moment, too. I mean, that was exactly what's called. It's interesting when you look around because it was for so long when people were talking

at the potential of Dorisberg calling these sorts of games for so many years. When she was on her way up, the roster, you know, there was one historic moment after another. Her calling it on the radio was a historic moment in and of itself, you know, when that happened. And there was, there was almost a sense of the time like, this might be the ceiling for a while, you know, we don't really know. But it also, but it did seem, there's so many female broadcasters out there, but she was such a leading light, you know, that, I mean, she was, she was so far out front. She was, that, that, you know, she could make, she, that if she ever accomplished the finals, what a moment that would be, you know, historic and it would stand for it. It's so crazy to look

round now at the roster of of female basketball commentators. And you're like, this is like one of those home run records that might stand for one season. You know, I mean, she might, there might be, I mean, we might never see a finals again without a female commentator in the booth, just strictly based on the talent field, you know, and it's, but it's, it's, it was really incredible to see. And, and, and of course, incredible that they, that they gave her that moment. It's interesting, because if you go back to the 80s, it looked like history might be made this particular history might be made with a play-by-play announcer rather than an analyst. I was looking this up. NBC hired Gail Sirens back in 1987 to call NFL games.

Happens this way with Dorisberg. As you say, it's an awesome moment. It's an extremely overdue moment, even if it looks like there are good times ahead on this front. Huge congrats to Dorisberg. Yep. Let's talk about her partner, JJ Redick. I thought for a moment, David, he was going to become the latest ESPN analyst to announce his way into a coaching job. Shams had the Lakers, I believe the verb was zeroing in. Yeah. On Redick to be their next head coach. And then Woj comes in and says, no, no, no.

The Lakers are zeroing in. They're zeroing elsewhere. Zeroing in elsewhere. So a non-zero sum, you might say, on Dan Hurley, the Yukon coach. So instead of putting a bow on Redick's media career, let's talk about his upside as an announcer. We already knew he was a great basketball thinker. I don't think he's a great game announcer yet,

but I think he has the tools to become one. Yeah. Listening to him in the finals. Part of this is just getting reps. Yes. Reps, period, and also reps with Doris Burke and Mike Breen. Yeah, it's only this time of year that we really have the conversations about what the reps of a team,

how meaningful they are, because like you've pointed out so many times, they'll add and subtract people from the teams for these big games all the time, and it doesn't always pan out to be a benefit. You know, J.G. Reddick is emblematic of this whole new sort of generation of commentators who get their earliest reps doing podcasts,

you know, just doing or doing kind of non-traditional media. And I think in the long run, I mean, obviously, I think, you know, in football, it has happened to basketball, too, where your celebrity of, you know, in your sport to such a degree that they'll throw you right in the studio, throw you right, right into the booth, you know, in the case of, of, well, you know, you talked to Bob Costas last week. He had those memories of Doug Collins coming right off the coaching bench and into the, and into the booth. And that, you know, those, those sorts of things certainly happen. But back to JJ, he's, he's, he's got reps, you know. He knows how to think.

he knows how to speak, but, but I think in the long run, it's probably going to play out better for him that he got, that he's not getting his reps in some sort of like manufactured, you know, on-air talent machine. Um, he's just sort of getting, he's just going there for finishing school, you know, and, and that's what we're watching right now, frankly. So that's the interesting part of it to me. And we'll be interesting to watch as he develops as an announcer. One, can you translate the nuance and detail that you can get into in a podcast? into a game that's on television. Not because you're dumbing it down.

It's not about dumbing it down. It's just what can you actually fit into a broadcast? Yeah. To make sure. And as you pointed out, when we were talking earlier about the finals crew getting better, it's just picking your spots. You know,

you see a replay of Jason Tatum going to the basket. You can talk about scheme there. You can talk about the defense. You can talk about how Tatum's using his right hand. there's a thousand things to talk about. And it's just having that quick Twitch ability to pick the right thing at the right moment. Yeah. And to make sure the audience is following along with you.

I'd also say in terms of being a podcaster versus a television presence, J.J. is pretty cerebral. It's comparing him to Greg Olson the other day on Bill's show. Yeah. I think there is an interesting comp there. but Greg Olson's like, here we go, football, baby,

let's talk football. I love the football. Come on now. You know, he has that sort of performative way of showing you that he cannot wait

to talk X's and O's with you. J.J's love of basketball is more likely to be expressed through a point about X's and O's. Yes. Than pure enthusiasm. Yeah,

I mean, Greg Olson, you know, looks like he came off the fact conveyor belt for football color commentators, you know, and sounds like it and everything else. JJ is not so, you know, just different from everybody that's done the job before him.

He does feel younger than at least when we were growing up, you know, we'd have, we'd have former coaches, you know, and players, it seemed like they were far removed from playing on the basketball court. They had to get their reps in before they made the big time, you know, a lot of the time. I mean, Reggie Miller, I guess, was as far as big-time games was about as fresh as I can recall. And he was, you know, a little bit later vintage than what I'm talking about. But, but yeah, I mean, JJ comes out of it from a totally different angle. You know, I mean, he just, he does.

It is about timing. And it is about, I mean, no one really cares about this. But as podcasters, we all know that, like, we can be as expansive as we want to be about any subject. And then Brian H. Waters can trim it down to a respectable link. But you can be as expansive as you want to about something. And then almost 100% of the time, you push the stop record button and you say, oh, I forgot to say the thing that I was thinking halfway through. And we were talking about that.

And you're like, eh, it's okay. But that's okay might be an unforgivable omission in a live broadcast, right? That might have been the only thing that it would have mattered for you to say. So yeah, it's a whole different vocabulary. And like you said, it's about timing. It's about picking your spots. and to watch someone do it effectively at all this early. I mean, it's pretty impressive.

I mean, I think I, J.G. Reddick, as a big of a fan of his podcast as I was, you know, he came along at a time when there was a number of young, intelligent, youngish, intelligent former players that were getting these spots, you know, and, you know, his, media stature, you know, one would expect that he would be given these opportunities. But whether or not he was going to stand out, I think, would, was sort of up in the air. And I think he's done a really respectable job so far. Not to derail this, but did I stick an extra syllable into the word cerebral a minute ago?

I don't know. Did you? I think I did. Cerebral? I think I said cerebral. Well, I think that's an okay one to throw in there. It just sounds like you're, it sounds like you're being extra cerebral. Don't you think it's cerebral?

J.J. is cerebral. Not cerebral. Third thing about JJ that interests me. him going on television shows and now radio shows and rejecting the premise of said shows. We've seen him do this with first take. I'm not participating in your debate. Then he went on Felger and Maz, which is the number one drive time show in Boston.

I was listening to this last week. And they were asking him questions. You hear Boston Sports Radio and you start to think, okay, what happened? But he was getting questions like, hey, how could Boston lose the finals this year? Yeah. And just no selling the host with answers like, well, if Boston loses the finals,

they won't be, they won't have been the best team. Yeah. I mean, doing that on every question, I'm like, I kind of admire rejecting the premises of certain sports talk. Absolutely. Devices of our time. Like, we all do that. But I think if you're going to be the number one announcer, the mountain is steeper if you

keep doing that. There's a lot of pressure to commit to the bit. Mm-hmm. Whether it's on TV or your, you know, sort of non-game duties, I'll be really interested to see how he navigates that going forward. Yeah. I mean,

I think he's definitely got the latitude to do. But more importantly, when confronted with a gimmick that you're not necessarily game for, now he's got his own gimmick. Yeah, he just says, no thanks. Let me talk about something that's interesting to me. It's pretty entertaining.

Some loose finals observations for you. During the pregame of game one, did you catch the Joe Biden commercial? Oh, yes. I did. I did. I caught it. I caught it. I caught the NPR commentary on it.

It was quite a production. Followed immediately by a commercial for the Bachelorette. That was a funny tofer. Yeah. NBA rights negotiations. TNT is still alive, maybe. says front office sports. This is great.

Negotiating for now a fourth package, which would be the D package, not A, not B, not C, but D. Uh-huh. D is kind of a passing grade. Mm-hmm. If we're giving a grade to Warner Brothers Discovery. Speaking of media rights,

Adam Silver, the NBA commissioner, was doing his State of the League press conference on Thursday. talking about media rights, and I want you to listen to one of the tech companies that has caught the NBA's eye. Where top-notch content now that we're seeing on the various streaming platforms, the fact that maybe Netscape,

I'm sorry, Netflix being the latest to come to the... Netflix being the latest. Yes, David, the NBA now has the framework of an agreement with Netscape, and Ask Jeeves is trying to determine if they can exercise their matching rights. Right. Netscape is great.

Do you notice, by the way, that the NBA finals on ABC were being presented by YouTube TV, which is not exactly a conflict of interest, but it did get my mind working that, like, is there, we can't be that far away from like a sports broadcast on what, pick your, pick your, you know, channel. A sports broadcast on NBC being presented by Bet ESPN. Like, can Bet ESPN be the sports betting partner of? a non-A-A-A-B-C-E-SPN broadcast. Like, you know, there's...

Presumably. We have so many different ways of consuming media and so many weird crossovers and horizontal vertical integration projects that, like, there's got to be more, more like awkward, awkward, you know, sponsorship conflicts, right? And speaking of awkward, Mike Vorkenov, the NBA writer, tweeted out that there were five YouTube TV ads on his screen at once. during game one, five,

if you count the ones that are superimposed on the court that are superimposed below the score bug. Yeah. Absolutely unbelievable. Even for finals level at clutter.

All right, David, coming up in 30 seconds, what in the world is going on with the Washington Post and its publisher, Will Lewis?

But first, let's do the overworked Twitter joke of the week where we celebrate a gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time. Send your nominees to at the press box pod where they are always, always gratefully received.

Speaking of British politicians, David, phrase I have not used before on this podcast. You spoke about them a while ago. That was in the intro. But yes, speaking of, go ahead. Nigel Farage, who has offensive positions on a whole spectrum of issues, including immigration, is running for office in the UK again. Yeah. And last week a woman threw a banana milkshake in his face.

A banana milkshake. It was an overworked Twitter joke to write, lactose meets intolerance. The banana had a meaning, right? Did the banana milkshake have a purpose? I didn't get the meaning of the banana, but I did learn from Slate

that throwing milkshakes in the faces of far right politicians is something of a tradition in the UK go back to at least 2019. Yes, okay. Maybe that's what I was thinking of. I just like that. I like the throwing tomatoes thing, but with like a history, you know, with a tradition. It's a, it makes it so much more fun. Thanks to Travis Barnett. If you helped us set a new record for UK political content here on this podcast. Congrats. You made the overwork Twitter joke of the week. All right, Dave, in the notebook dump, I want to talk to you about a chaotic week at the Washington Post. And this story has four parts. So follow me here. Part one came last Sunday night when the Washington Post employees got an email saying that Sally Busby, their executive editor, meaning the person who ran the paper, was out. Washington Post publisher Will Lewis, who made a career in British papers before coming over to the U.S., was bringing his former colleagues, two of his former colleagues, a board to run the paper. This led to a somewhat tense staff meeting on Monday with Washington Post reporters and editors, which is kind of expected when you have an abrupt change on the masthead like that.

And some post employees were leaking details of this meeting. This was on a website called Notice, N-O-T-U-S. And listen to how they leaked. The meeting, quote, marked a tonal shift for Will Lewis, another source said. Now, don't you love it when you leak about the newspaper in the same language that you use to write the newspaper? Was that a direct quote? That's a direct quote. A tonal shift.

This is an only in journalism back channel communication. We have going on here. Yeah. And if the Post decides to do an investigation of the leakers like the New York Times did with the whole daily saga, I'm not sure they'll be able to narrow it down by searching for which writers have used tonal. shift in their copy. All right. So that's part one. Old editor out, new editors in. Part two of the post saga, David.

Back in the UK, Will Lewis, the publisher of the post, worked in the Rupert Murdoch Empire. And he had a small role or an alleged small role in the aftermath of the phone hacking scandal over there. He was not alleged to be part of the hacking,

but as Dylan Byers wrote in Puck, an ongoing lawsuit alleges Lewis was involved with an effort to conceal evidence from authorities. Lewis has denied this. We should note. So this may, you want something? Lewis, just for the record in that Puck article you're talking about, I just want to put this in the only in journalism archives. In case anybody's wondering, you know, looking for description of Lewis,

he is described in Puck as a slick and mildly rakeish fleet street editor. So I just, that's, that's, yeah, only in journalism description of the week. Yeah, so Rakesh is only in journalism, only when you're describing British journalists. Yes. I believe that's the course of events here. So this May, the Washington Post, the paper that Will Lewis runs wanted to cover a development in that lawsuit. Mm-hmm. And I'll pick up the New York Times' scoop here.

In May, Mr. Lewis told Ms. Busby the case involving him did not merit coverage, the people said. These are people speaking to the New York Times. When Ms. Busby said the Post would publish an article anyway, he said her decision represented a lapse in judgment and abruptly ended the conversation. There was another exchange between Will Lewis and his now former editor, Sally Busby, like that in March two months before. The Washington Post added. Lewis, by the way, also denied these exchanges.

But you have two reports of a publisher allegedly telling his editor that unflattering news about him ain't a story. That's part two. Here's part three, David, because the plot thickens, as they say. NPR reporter David Fulkenflick, who we cite a lot on this podcast and was on this podcast last year,

talking about Fox News. Back in December, David Fulkenflick was writing about this UK lawsuit. And Will Lewis. Fulkenflick comes out after all these reports, and writes this. In several conversations, Lewis repeatedly and heatedly offered to give me an exclusive interview about the post-future

as long as I dropped the story about the allegations. So first, allegedly, you had the publisher telling his editor, This Ain't News. And then, allegedly, according to Fulkenflick, you have the publisher telling Fulkenflick, this ain't news. And if you agree it ain't news, I'll give you an exclusive interview about how I'm transforming the Washington Post. Yeah. Now, it's funny because a lot of the times through this story,

through a lot of these, you know, bold new vision for journalism institution X stories, I often wonder, like, why are we hearing this story? And listen, you and I, you're a media reporter. We are, you know, big fans of a lot of the media reporters on the various beats out there. But when you really, you know, a lot of these stories start, the seed of these stories is,

or the institutions themselves looking for the sort of PR hit of, hey, look at our bold new vision, you know, and so much of the time, it just ends up being a terrible, you know, it's like what a website has like a PR push for their new, for their website redesign or something. It's like, is this, does anybody need to be talking about this? Is there any good that's going to come out of this? No.

But this is a funny thing because as this question's going through my head, I'm bringing this just like, oh, here's why that story might have been out there. It's because he's like offering it up as a shield against this other report. You know, it's pretty incredible. Yeah, and the idea of horse trading with a media reporter. I know. How could that go wrong? Of all people with David Falconflink?

Yeah. All right, that's part three. Here's the final part, part four of the post saga. So now all of these allegations are out in the world, including the one from NPR. And the Washington Post, Sarah Ellison and Ilaje Azade are now writing about their own publisher. Follow along kids, right? Now they are now covering things that their publisher did allegedly with editors at their own paper. And they write this in his email to the post, Lewis, so their publisher, called Fulkenflick, published a book in 2013 on Rupert Murdoch's Media Empire, quote, an activist, not a journalist.

So now, Will Lewis is on the record trashing a media reporter. who writes for another media organization. A newspaper publisher, David, is slagging another journalist. To me, that's pretty absurd. Yeah. I line up with my old boss, Jack Schaefer, who wrote a column saying, wait a second, Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. And he's told the Washington Post, cover me like you'd cover anybody else.

Yeah. But the Washington Post publisher cannot extend the same courtesy to his own journalists. Yeah. Or an outside reporter like David Falkin Flick, who by the way is a journalist. Yeah. Yeah, it's very strange. I mean, why you would be taking that stance? I mean, obviously, there's a lot of psychological, you know, whatever.

You could read into it whatever you want. But a very, like, basic level, you're like, well, I don't want that stuff to come out because it might jeopardize my job. I feel like everybody that has that thought process for any reason ends up doing something that jeopardizes their job even more than what that reporting would have done. 100% because his job here is to get the Washington Post back on track. Yeah. And now he's the story. Now he's the story. And we talk about this like post loss was $77 million last year.

Half of their traffic since 2000. In order to implement these very aggressive reforms, you got to have the newsroom with you. Yeah. You need some buy in. And that's part of the job, by the way. The job is not like I force these people to do everything. and they, you know, bend to my will no matter what. Oh, of course, yeah.

It is to convince them to get on board with it. Maybe he thinks if he's just going to turn himself into a Vince McMahon style villain. And if he becomes this giant villainous star, then more people will read the Washington Post. Maybe we're just falling into the trap. Forget Mr. McMahon. How about Jason Kids mind games? Is that what Will Lewis is trying to do? Yes, that's exactly what's happening.

I'm going to turn David Falcon flick into Jason Tatum. and that's going to make you implement my visions. I think that's going to go about as well as it did for the Mavericks. All right, David, some only in journalism for you. This comes from a valued listener, Jason Jarrett, Todry. Oh, yeah. We love to say Todry in news articles, but never say that out loud. Nathan Graber-Lipper-Lipperman sends along a synonym,

we often hear when you don't need a synonym vehicle, as in the Ryan Gosling-led vehicle. vehicle. Did XYZ at the box office this weekend. Another unnecessary synonym from Andrew Graining. Sports writers love to use the word dispatched.

The Celtics easily dispatched the Mavericks in game one, according to an athletic news alert. They also beat the Mavericks. It's a little bit like when I'm trying to write a media article in my hands go across the keyboard and I start to

call the name of an American city a market? No, it's also a city. I understand what a media market is, but we don't need to make those synonyms in every possible usage. Yes. And this is a great one. It comes from Nick Croker in Australia. We really get to the second level with this feature, David, when we have not only American only in journalism, but Australian only in journalism. This comes from coverage, Nick Croker says, of the Australian Football League down there,

what we used to call Aussie rules football. He writes, there's this word that gets used in print, only in print, around trade time for our little antipodian football code down under. Wonderful word there, antipodian. The word, Nick Crocker writes, is want away. Want away. Want away. So if a player plays for the tigers and will like to be traded,

he's referred to as the want away tiger. Oh, I like that. He says, I swear they use it hundreds of times in the space of about a month at the end of every season. Can we start using that in America? That'd be super handy. So Kevin Durand is a want-to-way son? Yeah, James Hardin, the want-away Philadelphia 76, or yeah, this is perfect. He's the want-to-way everything, James Hardin.

Also, we got about three invitations to join Learned League trivia. Oh, yeah. after our cameo in there and if you're interested in online trivia, I've got several press box listeners who would like to allow us to sign up for this private trivia league. Speaking of things that require a membership, it's time for David Shoemaker,

guess is the strained pun headline. Yeah. Thursday's headline about a Canadian man fighting for his naturalized yard was lawn and order. Today's headline comes from Dan Reichel, David. but it's from Newsday out there on Long Island. Daryl Strawberry.

Daryl Strawberry, there's a name for the 80s, had his number 18 retired by the New York Mets in a ceremony at City Field. So we've got Daryl Strawberry joining the City Field Immortals. What was Newsday's strained pun headline? Daryl Strawberry, strawberry, it's got to be a strawberry pun, right?

He didn't know, oh, or straw? He wasn't, they called him straw, right? Did he have any other nickname? I think they kind of did, but strawberry is definitely what you're going for. Strawberry shortcake, strawberry, strawberry, uh, strawberry, gosh, strawberry patch, strawberry. Remember this is at city field? Yeah, oh, strawberry field, strawberry, uh, no. Keep gone.

Stop. You're there. You're on the doorstep. Strawberry field of dreams. Strawberry field of, strawberry field of, strawberry field of, strawberry. Fields Fills Forever? Strawberries field forever. Okay.

Strawberries Field Fair. Pretty good work there from Newsday. Yeah. He is David Shoemaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Projects your Magic by Brian Waters. Coming up Thursday, David, on the old press box, Katie Baker. Yes.

Your friend, my friend, friend to those across the country and indeed the world. Katie Baker's going to be on Press Box. Cannot wait to talk to her about a number of things. then Shoemaker returns Monday with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then, David. See you later, Brian.