The Press Box - 'Jam Session' — A Katy Perry Extravaganza (Ep. 320)

Episode Date: June 14, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins discuss Katy Perry’s new album and the press tour around it, including her four-day livestream and New York Times profile (1:36). They also examine Tobey Maguire’s kid’s ‘Beauty and the Beast’ production (27:30), Oprah’s Fennelgate (35:40), and Rita Ora’s new (excellent) song (41:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before we get in today's jam session, I've got to tell you about this other podcast. I'm halfway through it. I had to stop to come record this. But Bill Simmons, my boss and my friend, talks to Kevin Durant, the NBA Finals, MVP, about the finals and Brianna and just everything you want to know on the Bill Simmons podcast. It's available now. It's 90 minutes. I'm through half of it, and I'm honestly looking forward to getting back to the rest.

And it's through your exclusive. So check it out. If you want to listen to it, you've got a lot of options. There's Apple Podcast, SoundCloud, Stitcher, Spotify. or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Jam Session. I'm Julieta Lippman. I'm Amanda Dobbins.

It's Katie Perry Week, people. We have a lot of work to do. A lot of Katie Perry to work through and Katie Perry work to do. You're right. So Katie Perry is going to be the main thing. I also just want to acknowledge the rumors on Twitter right now that Beyonce is in labor as we speak.

Alert, alert. If she is. Congrats. Congrats. If you're hearing this and Beyonce has given birth, we are happy for her. We love babies. And I love Beyonce.

I like twins. Yeah. That's cool. That's just great. And if she's not in labor or if the twins have already been born and are enjoying some privacy, good wishes all around. Absolutely. Congratulations to the Knowles Carter family. Yes.

Great. Even if it's not happening today in advance, we'll say the same thing. That's true. Good wishes generally. Yeah, exactly. We'll DTR later and share our one things with you. But for now, it's all Katie Perry. It's Katie Perry's YouTube world.

We're just watching it. All right. So, Juliet, so I have a lot of things I wanted to discuss with you. For anyone who has not been following pop music or, I don't know, the world recent, you know, cultural events recently. Katie Perry released an album last week. She did.

On Friday, called Witness. And she has been promoting that album. Aggressively. Aggressively. For several weeks now in a variety of ways that culminated with a new. 96-hour live stream. Yes. Where you could just watch, I mean, you could watch Katie Perry eat, work out, sleep.

She also had a lot of guests. A lot. Although I have a thought about the guests. Yes. Which is she didn't go for like top shelf famous people, but she went for YouTube famous. Yes. So she had James Gordon. Yes.

She had pentatonics. I can't even talk about that, but we will. It was interesting. It was like, this is a very calculated press or very calculated publicity campaign. Right. So I want to talk about Katie Perry two ways. I want to talk about Katie Perry as a pop star, as an artist, and talk about the album. And then we will talk about this press tour and Katie Perry as a celebrity.

Okay. Here's my album review. Are you ready? I like it. Wow. Switch, Swish is a jam. Every time I click on one of the live stream, like, breakout videos, a little bit of witness plays, and I'm into it. Sure.

There's a slow song that I heard yesterday that is. is really slow. And I was like, yeah, this is pleasant. It's not, it's obviously not ever going to come to the highs of teenage dream. No. Or even like some, I, um, uh, walking on air on Prism is like probably top three Katie Perry song for me. But I, I like this album. It gets me bopping in my chair.

Juliet, as always, you're a visionary and a unique flower in the pop music opinion space. No, I don't think you're even unique. It's not a disaster. No. It's not, um, it's not a Dr. Luke record. It's not art pop, if you will, which. I thought Rob Harvilla in our piece about the Katie Perry Taylor Swift

feud, which will also come back to you, made an apt comparison that I think career-wise this will end up being Katie Perry's down moment. I don't think this is going to sell a huge amount. None of the singles have really charted. Swish, swish, bish. Right. It's not

unlistenable, though I will say, candidly, I have only listened to this album once. I turned it off several times before I made it through. Not because I was like, I'm offended by this but just because other things demanded my attention. It was boring. At first, I found it boring.

But then I kind of got into it. I don't know. Swish Swish has really been my point of entry. And from there, I kind of just been like, oh, Katie Perry's accidentally playing in the background and I like it. But she, it's interesting. Like, so she's not working Dr. Luke anymore. You're right.

Allegedly. Although there was a story on, oh, no, they didn't last week that got a, supposedly got a hold of the liner notes that said that she was working with a company called like pharmaceutical records or something like that. That is, some say, is a shadow company for Dr. Luke. But she said in the New York Times, she's not working with him. But she is working with Max Martin. But I couldn't tell you off the top of my head which Max Martin song, which he worked on.

And usually I could pick him out because you just know how a visionary works after he's such a big body of work, you know. So there's not like an obvious hit. I agree with you. Although I think Swish Swish is really good. You know, we were talking on the way of it. over here. And you've already said, it's not going to live up to teenage dream.

No. And it's also quite obviously an attempt to reposition herself. Yes. Like both music-wise, she doesn't want to make the pure, like, taffy pop that she used to. Right. And she wants to be a little more open to the world in her own way, which she's kind of, you could argue that Prism was in a little way moving towards that. And she's always done a little bit of kind of inspiration, play this at a sporting event.

type music, but this is, I mean, you can't really call it political. She would call it political, you can't actually, which is part of the problem. She did a song for the 16 Olympics, right, over last summer? And it just totally bombed? I think so. Yeah, she did. Like, you can't even remember it. Yeah.

So she's kind of, I think part of the problem is the songwriters that she, that are, like, making the hits these days are just kind of not in her world. Like they're, they're not, like, she's not working with Tobias Jesso. she's not working with Ed Shearine. She's not working with Julia Michaels. She's not working with any of like the real, like the people who are dominating top 40, probably by choice.

Because it sounds like she's really trying to like find herself musically. Right. And that kind of by necessity means she can't lean on some of these like younger people who have a lot of my favorite songs right now. I've written my favorite songs right now. And mine too. And yeah, I,

it's hard to fault someone for wanting to do something on their own. Yeah. I don't think it's working out for her. And it's frustrating because this was the thing I really liked about Katie Perry in 2010. And it's important to say that the world was very different in 2010. And I think, you know, the situation, how we receive pop music is certainly contextual, always. And it was like a great time to be making really dumb, occasionally offensive, but not real, you know, but very candy-colored, pure pop music. and she did a very smart thing,

which was she was just like, I'm going to buy the best pop songs. Yeah. And she had really good taste and presented them really well. And they, like, teenage dream. Like, I ride for fireworks. It's really corny, but come on.

It's good. Also, just a pro tip, never do firework at karaoke. Katie Perry should not have done firework and carpool karaoke. I'm just going to put that out there. Hard to hit those high notes. Yeah. I think that she was like a perfect fusion.

She embodied a perfect fusion. of the pop industry and like the true geniuses of writing pop music. Absolutely. And like Dr. Luke for all that's wrong with him is obviously extremely good at writing pop songs. Like that's how he excels. Right. And she was very good at packaging them and presenting them.

I think the biggest change and this is what I think will lead us into talking about her press store is she used to be unapologetic. And now she's like incredibly apologetic. And one of the things that was still appealing was her about her, she was just like, this is who I am. I'm a perfect pop star. Get on board or turn the radio off. And now she's a lot more introspective and sort of like she seems almost like nervous about her own positioning and the pop landscape.

And I don't think that is intentional, but her deliberate attempts that like vulnerability are playing really wrong when we're so used to her being so kind of like powerful and like belting out an anthem. Yes, I 100% agree. And again, so I think we should just transition into celebrity. That was a very good segue. It's almost like you've done this before. No, I completely agree. And it's hard to fault someone for trying to learn about the world. Yeah.

And to be aware. Like, it genuinely, I don't think she's doing it particularly well. I think, like, most of the interviews have been extraordinarily tone deaf. Yeah. And it is, like, very complicated when someone in such a position of privilege is sort of examining, but not quite examining enough. You know, but, like, she's trying, I guess. One thing that really actually ranked true for me is she, I think in the combination of the Times article and on the live stream, she's like, I'm in my 30s now. I see things differently. And I do, you know, as someone who like cried a lot about turning 30, I will say there is like kind of like a, there is like a certain kind of like repositioning of yourself in the world where you, I feel like when I was in college and right after college, I was like, what are you talking about sexism and misogyny? Like everything's fine. I have a job. I have a job. I,

treated equally at the workplace and at all times I'm just doing okay. But then I feel like you get older and you do start to realize like actually it's all these latent ideas that have been beaten into you that you don't recognize until you have like kind of more experience. And I do think that Kate like she has expressed it very poorly and sounds

really like you said tone deaf but I do think there is something about being being mistreated because I'm a woman or something like that. Absolutely. I also, we know that the pop industry is extremely sexist. Yeah, and Dr. Luke is extremely problematic.

Yeah, of course. And I'm sure that she has experienced that, like, just because she was very good at it for a long time doesn't mean that it wasn't difficult or that she's not. She didn't see some things that messed with her. And also, you know, I think she's also quite obviously been through a lot personally. She got divorced. She's dated. We'll come back to the men that she's dated and their sexual prowess. But like, it's a list of guys who are not historically reliable.

No. Josh Groven, though. That was a real twist. Yeah. So in... Shout out to Grobin. Love that guy. In the middle of... And this was actually the savvious thing she did all during the live stream.

In the middle of kind of a truth or dare segment with James Corden, she deflected a question by revealing that the one that got away, which was a pretty good song, Deep Cut, is about Josh Grobin. Great song. That's a segment from the Corden show called Spill Your Guts, just so you know. Or Fill Your Guts. Fill your guts. Yeah.

Sorry, fill your guts. Yeah. He's played it with like Kendall Jen. It's a fun. It's a fun one. Corden wins. It's a great segment. It stays winning. Yeah, it's, it's been interesting to, like, see her, like, work through this, like, enlightenment. But then, on the other hand, like, a major part of this press tour is her view to Taylor Swift. And, like, if you're so about, like, women being empowered, maybe just keep it to yourself. I'm not saying, like, Taylor Swift, but, like, why doesn't have to be, like, a focal point? Yeah. It's, the problem is when the Enlightenment touches, like, financial gain, which seems to be a real thing. She's definitely marketing this album and herself on a level of knowledge and learning. Or, you know, she yells all the time. I don't know anything. I don't know anything.

It's her new Twitter bio. But she's really trying to sell this journey that she has not totally figured out. And when you realize that she's making money off of it and she still isn't getting it right is when you're like, that's where I start to have the problem. Yeah. And she doesn't really seem interested in confronting the kind of like more intense criticism about like her appropriation of the various culture. And one of the most criticized moments so far has been her performance on Saturday Night Live when she performed Bonapete. Yes. That's the Migo song, right?

Yeah. And she doesn't doesn't really seem like interested in reckoning with that. So it's a lot of like picking and choosing of like what am I willing to confront publicly right now and what will I just sort of. to like sweep away. We should say that she had, she had Derey on the live stream at one point and then sort of performed her own monologue about her struggles to understand cultural appropriation, which is an interesting microcosm of trying to reach out and then not really understanding the part where you listen and learn.

Totally. It's interesting. He's, he's a good one to bring up because, like, the, who was the YouTube stream for? I don't know. Because if you look at just who the guests were, it's like for people who live on YouTube. It's like for the, it's for a very specific large body of people who just like live on on YouTube. And like that is like kind of a world that just fascinates me because I don't understand it. But all of the stars that she asked to be on the show have their own followings on that platform.

So it's sort of like she, I didn't realize it was a formal partnership with the Times article made it seem like she and YouTube have like agreed to something. And they called her they called YouTube a partner of Judy Perry. which I don't even know what that corporate mumbo-jumbo means at this point. But she was there in the Javitt Center performing for YouTube. Right. And then I'm like, well, then who suggested pentatonic? Because it's very hard for me to imagine Katie Perry being like, I love this five-sum that just became a four-sum and let's only get three of them on the show.

Like it was really like bizarre choices. It was something. Also, I just want to say that one direction to this with one D-Day. Did you remember that? No. They did like a very long live stream where you could just watch them. doing all these different things. It wasn't as long, but it was like 16 hours or something. And because there were five of them, they kind of like rotated in and out. They were playing games,

answering questions, interacting with fans. But this is like not as revolutionary as it seems. Also, did you watch? Did you watch? I mean, I know you did watch it. It looked so much like the way Big Brother is filmed. True. Which I think was intentional. It was fascinated. As like a piece of internet media, I was fascinated by it. I was fascinated by it as an act of celebrity because it's very clearly her play to be as authentic as possible. And it's not. It's just so clearly performed from the camera angles, as you noted, to the fact of, like, the people who are on the show have partnerships or connections to, and you knew what this was coming because I made you watch the therapy session. So she had, she had an hour long, quote, therapy.

session during the live session. So she has an hour-long therapy session with a doctor, Dr. Siri Singh, who does this on Viceland regularly. Apparently, there's a whole show on-viceland where you can watch famous people have on-camera therapy session. I had no idea. I would watch that. Now I'm going to seek it out. I am as well. It's an interesting idea. And I, we talked a little bit about this. I'm conflicted because I think therapy is good for people. Very pro-therapy here at Jam session. Absolutely. And I think it's useful to see. people and famous people participating even in kind of

a fake therapy session just to normalize it. It can help people. It's not setting to be ashamed about. It's good to see it. A good therapist wouldn't agree to filming therapy though. Right. So this is the other thing. You're just definitely not watching a therapy session. Yeah.

Like there is no, and that's not even really Katie Perry's fault because you know, it's not her fault that the construct of doesn't lend itself to cameras, though, you know, I guess she is trying to get credit for something that she's not really doing. It's not therapy, and her performance in it is such a summary of the ways in which she thinks that she's being very authentic and open-minded and is just kind of repeating platitudes. And you can see the performance on a level that's extremely uncomfortable, but also, I don't think, helpful to her celebrity. It didn't make me like her more.

No, me neither. It also didn't really have any like insight. Didn't know she like unlocked anything? Right. It sort of seemed like there was a line of questioning that she knew was coming. Whether she did or not, it was so surfaced that it seemed like she could have like prepared for it. And I feel like the New York Times article by Karen Gans that came out today does a good job of pinpointing these moments where, you know, she only speaks in platitudes. There are no real specifics.

She's kind of talking in a monologue the whole time that she's rehearsed. And it's so interesting, right, because we spend so much time talking about being a good celebrity now is actually being available and doing that performance. And celebrity is a performance. Like, don't get me wrong. No one is actually authentic because when they are presenting their Instagram or their live stream or whatever to you, it's a choice. They're performing. But I would have said that Katie Perry, like doing this would be better for her. and I have walked away from this press cycle being like,

this was a disaster. Yeah. I don't know if the YouTube live stream was a good idea, but I'm like happy she did it for my own personal. Yeah, I think it's a fascinating text. Yeah. I don't think that it will ultimately, you know, be a win for her because there's just, there's too much.

Yeah. We may have discussed this last week, I can't remember, or two weeks ago, but she performed at the BBC Radio One Big Weekend. Right. And she did like a whole set. And it was interesting watching that where she's basically kind of wearing like a slip dress. You know, her stage presence is very similar to Halsey right now, which I think is bad for Katie Perry. She kind of looks like her, kind of like stole her style in some ways.

And she's dressing very similarly to her. And she was wearing kind of like a sequin or like a shiny slip dress that also like a long cape over it, which I guess is a style now because I saw Ayesha Curry wearing one to the NBA Finals game five. but it was interesting to have that image and then read this article where she talks about changing her stage show and moving away from kind of like the whipped cream bikini and just sort of like she's trying to not be as hypersexual but I just think it's a different kind of sexuality still hypersexual I mean like something that is not sexual would be I don't know like wearing sweats like in a very unironic way or like just wearing a regular outfit like I'm wearing at work right now. But it's just like, it's like a repositioning of her sexuality. It's not really

like hiding it or trying to like take it out of view, which is just interesting to me that like the way that she's discussing it, like sexuality is very specific to her. And she thinks that she no longer has that or is claiming to. I don't know. Because I'm like, this is so quite sexual. Yeah. There's a lack of self-awareness throughout this. It's very tough. And it's a, well, I think there are some situations where you need to be self-aware, including when you're talking about social and political issues and cultural appropriation that you have committed, and that's just like plain badness, but that she needs to work on. The lack of self-awareness when it comes to who she is in the world was actually in the pop world, who's actually useful to her around

teenage dream. And now the fact that she thinks she has it, but she doesn't, it's just kind of, it makes it all the more uncomfortable. Sure. Yeah. And it's undermining like whatever repositioning she's trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. It's like kind of like the intention is noble, which she would be happy with

because apparently she says like it's all bad intentions, but the execution is poor and off base. It's tough. Do you talk about the Taylor Swift aspect? Well, yeah, it's an interesting comparison, right? Because everyone has spent the last year dragging Taylor Swift for being overmanaged and fake. Right. that's not looking so bad right now.

I know. Also, so Katie Perry's album came out last Friday, and at the same moment it was released, Taylor Swift put all of her music back on Spotify, which is just like a real. I honestly think it's a master strike. I do too. It's incredible.

Good idea. She didn't even have to say a word, which I honestly think the longer that Taylor stays out of the spotlight. Yeah, the better. The better, because everyone else gets to make their own mistakes as we watched Katie Perry do the past couple weeks. And then here's the thing about Taylor Swift. I genuinely believe if she comes out with a good album at this point, all is forgiven.

All as well, would you say? All as well. All too well. I mean, it would have to, again, it would have to be the right kind of, it would have to be a self-war album. She can't release an album of just of you, like, you motherfuckers, were so mean to me. Yeah. I also think that one problem for Katie Perry is that she hasn't, she's been working on her image and like who she has a celebrity. she's not even working on herself as a musician.

That's the thing. If the album was good, we would not be having these conversations. Or even if she was like, oh, look, I play the guitar now or I play the piano now. I'd be like, oh, that's interesting. That's like a real focus on, like, developing your skills. But it's not. And that's actually really separate from the direction that pop music is going, or at least for solo acts. Because pretty much every solo act kind of oscillates between like just singing of the band and then like taking it down a notch and like sitting down at the piano.

And I think I'm a lady to guys. Jaga is the best of this because she's incredibly talented musician. She is. But it just kind of become standard. Like for every, the other people who are kind of not doing that right now are like Selena Gomez and Halsey and they have gone a different direction with her songwriting than

Katie Perry has. Yeah. And they just I mean, Selena Gomez has the advantage of being so young and her fan base has still kind of been a malleable. Yeah. Besides you and me, we're not malleable and we're definitely in Selena Gomez's fan base. I'm in. You know, it's like you're

to grow up to a certain point. It's hard. I mean, Katie Perry was extremely successful in the way that she is probably most suited to being a pop star like eight years ago. And she doesn't want to do it anymore and you can't blame her, but she's not fit for this moment in pop music and what we want and of a musician, of a celebrity of a famous person. It's just, it's not her time. And that's tough and unfair, but also the facts. Yeah. I also, um, I also, um, I think she's just so pretty. Like I was saying this to you before. Yeah.

And I think that hurts her in some ways. Like this is separate to me from the sexuality conversation, but sort of like leaning away from her prettiness, I think also hurts her pop star value, which is harsh but true. Because that's part of what she was selling? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when we were talking about the sexuality, I was just kind of like I, that's inherent to Katie Perry, which is not a bad thing.

Sex is not bad. But being exploited and not feeling in charge of it is bad. and I think that that's what she's talking about a lot. And that's entirely valid and, you know, but she's very, she's extremely sexy. Like, I get it. You know, it is hard to look past. I don't know. I wish her well on her journey.

I do too. Lindsay Zolads made an interesting point in the piece that she wrote, which was kind of like Katie Perry has been trying to position herself as an underdog and someone who doesn't have it figured out for a while. now and that was always hard to believe and you can believe it at this moment. Right. That's a good point. Good point, Lindsay. Yeah, so maybe there is, maybe she can figure it out. I wish she would hire some real songwriters.

Me too. Me too. You just get Tobias Jesso in your corner. Just one. You know what would really help her a little Adele dust? Get Adele on a duet with you. I was thinking, the whole time I was watching the carpal karaoke, I was just thinking about how much easier it was when Adele did this.

That's because she's truly a queen. She's really a queen. The singing, you know. First of all, she's in a different order of magnitude in terms of talent. And second. Quite true. And second of all, she, by all accounts, is really bossy. And it's funny.

Like, she is a boss. And no one ever says that about Katie Perry. And people actually say that about Taylor Swift, too. Like, she's very specific or whatever. And Katie Perry doesn't have that rep for whatever reason. But there's just no emphasis on Katie Perry's, like, skill in music. and I think that is like kind of coming up right now. It's tough.

Yeah. She had it. She had something. She definitely had something. Also, there's so many wonderful vocalists who I don't give a shit if they are good musicians or not. Like I'm the person to be like, I fucking love you because you can sing well. All I like is a good acoustic cover by a good vocalist. And Katie Perry just sort of like doesn't lean into that even trying to become like the best singer she can be.

Even like Justin Bieber, you know about like his vocal. coach or whatever. We know so little about Katie Perry's craft for whatever reason. I think this album is that reason. I think we found out why. Oh dear. I wish her well. Me too. There's also like just a lot of really good pop music right now. And I put switch swish in that category, but that's the only one. There's so much good music on the radio right now for her to contend with. You and I are very here for Julia Michaels. So here for Julia Michaels. I am really just like still loving bad liar. I'm really. I'm really, into the Nile song,

my surprising One Direction solo act favorite, can't believe it. I don't understand that. Harry forever. I just don't like his music that much. That's fine. I don't really either. It's not what it's about. It's literally never what it's been about because he figured out the other part.

Yeah, and then there's just a lot of good tunes out there. Ed Shearren's still trucking along in the radio. Sorry, and Katie Perry's just not, she's not in the pop zone. I'm sorry. Not in the top 40, for me at least. Okay, we're going to talk more celebrity. But first, let's tell you about hotels tonight, our sponsor.

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A few weeks ago on a Sunday, there was a school play. starring the child of Toby McGuire and his extremely wealthy Hollywood heiress ex-wife, Jennifer Meyer. And much like you might see in a fictional television show, all of the stars came out for this elementary school play. It was a production of Beauty and the Beast, and that included Leonardo DiCaprio, Courtney Cox, Gwyneth Paltrow, Kevin Connolly, just like an all-star crew, including the famed Pussy Posse, obviously,

to support Toby. And it's just bizarre. It sort of doesn't get any better than that. And for some reason, I think it happened on a Sunday. And there weren't a lot of great photos. So kind of on a little under the radar. But this might be the greatest celebrity event of 2017 so far. It's true.

So I also want to note that Lucas Haas was also there. Yes, sorry. So here's my first question, Juliet, about this. You said a school play. Yes. There has been much debate. And I'm looking at the Daily Mail article. that brought this to our attention.

Okay. It does say school rendition of Beauty and the Beast in the headline, but Daily Mail is fast and loose with its facts, as in it makes them up a lot. In the article, it says a children's production of Beauty and the Beast. Okay, well, I'm really glad you brought this up. I did a sweep of all the schools on the West Side to see who was putting on Beauty and the Beast

because Shirley us would be posted on a school website. I couldn't find it. Yeah, I also did this and came to the belief that it was a local, community theater production of Beauty and the Beast, which would honestly make a little more sense in terms of everyone that your kid has ever known showing up. Yeah. It's very weird to show up to this school production. There are a limited amount of seats. The kids, the parents need the seats. This is also a really nerdy and dumb thing to say. Yeah. But for schools to do like a production of a certain play, if it's like official, I think there's like a certain fee involved. And,

And I would guess the Beauty and the Beast fee is very high as a result of the movie recently coming out. So like some kind of like unofficial like community thing makes more sense to me. But you know, super well-funded community theater, I guess. It's definitely the community theater from Big Little Eyes. But as we know, yeah. They do get Broadway productions. They do. Yeah.

Love Avenue Q. Okay. When I was five, me and my friends did a production of guys and dolls. So just so you know. In the community or in your living room? In a living room. Who were you? My art.

Adelaide. All of our parents, like, came. I was, like, very insistent on what my outfit was. I was just really, I was into it. Guys and Ells was the first musical that I ever saw live, and I love it. When you see a guy was, yeah, it's just the best. I love, I love musicals. I can't wait for your performance of Adelaide's Lament in our office later.

Coming later. Who do you, who would you say is the most famous person to attend this play? Leo. Leo. Okay, number two, Gwyneth? Yes. Number who's number three? Kind of wide open when you get to.

Number three, like, is it Toby McGuire, Spider-Man? You got to figure Courtney Cox was in people's homes every day for 10 years. Or every week for 10 years. Still is. We were talking about what to do, what next show we should binge here at the ringer. And I was like, friends. People love friends and still watch friends. It's very popular.

That's really true, though then our entire staff will die. I know. There's so many episodes. Yeah. But people love friends. I love friends. I watched an episode this week. I do, too.

I mean, we grew up watching it. Yeah. Yeah, so I would have to, I would put Courtney Cox. Number three. above toby mcguire i know he was spider-man but people don't love do people like those spider-mans and then they don't like the andrew garfield

ones they're really good i'm not really into block i'm not i used to be in a block by the dress not really anymore but i love those spider-mans okay i remember the first one i remember aos got to it and the first one came out and he was like the queensborough bridge doesn't get enough attention finally a movie showing off the queensborough bridge i was into that uh it was this was a remarkable los angeles happening this is kind of like when you move to L.A. what you think is going on every day.

Imagine being the little kid who played Lumiere in Beauty and the Beast. Or I don't know why I said Lumier. Imagine being any of the kids. Lumier was the first name. I remember. It's an important part of Beauty and the Beast. Makes sense. And you look out and you're staring at Leonardo DiCaprio. Just incredible. How many songs from Beauty and the Beast do you think Leonardo DiCaprio knows? Two.

Which two? Tale is oldest time. Okay. And probably, Bonjour, Bonjour, bonjour, Bonjour,

Bonjour, well, I recently, I went to go see Beauty and the Beast and the film in my capacity

as a professional culture person. I did not realize that I knew every single words to the opening song. It's many people's

favorite Disney movie. And also in many ways one in the least problematic. Here's what I just want to say.

Yes, I would guess that Leo knows the chorus of be our guest and then just does like hmm-hmm

hmm-hmm, mm-hmm, and probably tale is old as time. Yeah, I mean, we all love Angela Lansbury. Every person on the planet, right? That's true. Another nice part of the new movie was that Emma Thompson gets to sing in the movie. It's nice.

I like that for Emma Thompson. That is nice. I'm going to see that. It was fine. I heard it's preventable now, right? It's available for me to watch my own home. That sounds right, yeah. I'll be watching it this weekend.

Now that the basketball's over, I've got a lot of time. Very exciting. Let's move on to our weekly segment. beginning with DTR. Okay. Hot new relationship in the NBA, speaking of, it's actually not new, but now confirmed. David Lee of the San Antonio Spurs and Caroline Wozniaki of what's the name of the organization,

the USWTA? Yeah. Thanks. Okay, good. I was going to say like the United States. And I was like, well, she's not American. Anyway, hot new couple. They've been vacationing in Sardinia.

So I assume that means he's not watching the finals or he didn't watch the finals. And she certainly doesn't even know that. what R-O-R-R-Y spells anymore. She's expelled that name from her mind. Her former fiancé, Rory. Yeah, I know. Okay.

I'm extremely aware he ended it. He ended it on the phone, but it was a brief phone call. Yes. As opposed to a text message. Yes, it was a brief phone call. Okay. Very harsh. And then she became Serena Williams' best friend, supposedly, I assume, still friends.

Yeah. And, yeah, this is an exciting one. I think it's real. I believe in it. I looked at some pictures, and they are definitely in sort of. it together and it looks quite nice. She also had pictures of him, like, walking off the court with her. She's been to San Antonio wearing his jersey.

Okay. Seems very real. I think that this is a big get for him, to be honest. She's kind of, like, at the top of her field, even if she only recently came back in the top ten. Yeah, she's in the middle of her field right now. It's a tough time in women's tennis without Serena, but she's got the Serena glow. You know, she's a celebrity.

He's not. Sure. It does. That has not helped. Like her past six months of tennis. No shots. I mean, to Caroline Wozniakia, I'm glad she's happy. It's important to have life outside of work. She'll admit it anyway. Because she was like, oh, I'm back in the top ten.

It's been a while. David Lee was on the 2015 championship warriors no longer on this team. So he won the first time. Yeah. Did he lose last year? Last year, he was on the Dallas Mavericks, which was just kind of an L in general. And this year, no, he wasn't on the team last year. if that was your question.

And now he's on the San Antonio Spurs, at least for now. And I think this is a really big look for him. I think this extends his presence in the sports consciousness for a long time. That's exciting. Yeah. Congrats to him. But this seems like a real one. I'm happy for them, I guess.

Their vacation looked really nice. It looks very nice. I'm happy for Caroline after the whole Rory debacle. Yeah, totally. He seems like a real jerk. How she had any other notable boyfriend since? I don't know of any. Oh, okay.

Cool. Okay, one thing just can't stop thinking about. You go first. Okay. Did you follow Oprah Fennell Gate? No. Oh my God, I'm so excited to tell you about this. Okay.

Wow. All right. Do you like fennel? I just need to know. In the right context. It's a good base for a lot of like soups and stews. Sure, yeah. So you like it cooked better than raw?

I like it cook better. That's why I was asking. A little too licoricey. Yeah. Okay. Do you know about harvest day? Yes, I do. Okay, so if you don't follow Oprah on Instagram, you should because, I mean, she's Oprah,

and also because she regularly, she has a feature called Harvest Day, which is when she poses with various produce that she has grown on one of her farms. I think that she should have timed it to coincide with May Day, but that's just a personal opinion. Well, she does it all the time. I know, but I'm just, I feel like May first one wouldn't have. Yeah. She always looks so excited about the tomatoes or eggplants or whatever. grown on Harvest Day. It's really very exciting. Also, if you're an amateur gardener like me,

it's really inspiring. But anyway, Oprah recently posted a harvest day. And the caption is, what to do with all this dill? And it's a giant basket full of fennel. Now, in Oprah's defense, the top of the fennel does look a lot like dill. And I can't tell you that I would have known the difference. I mean, you can sort of see the phenol bulbs, which is kind of maybe giving you away. But listen, who among us has not confused herbs and things before? That's really generous, Amanda. Whatever. I'm not perfect. That's true, but fennel does not look like an herb. The top of it does. I guess. Was it cut off? No. It's like, it's attached to the bulb. It's fine. So it's definitely fennel. And the reason we know this is because Jamie Oliver

shows up in the comments. Yes. I'm going to read you Jamie Oliver's quote. Wow. There's not enough Jamie Oliver my life. This is great. That's fennel, mate. I love it roasted. Slowly fry it until sweet. Very finely slice it for salads with great olive oil, salt and pepper. It's delicious. Enjoy. The only punctuation there are like weird commas around the slowly fry it part that have spaces. So that's fennel mate. And then a whole thing erupted over whether Jamie Oliver was like insulting Oprah in the comments about the difference between Dill and Fennell. Please allow me to defend Jamie Oliver. I don't know where people netted out on this,

but I feel like the inclusion of mate seems very condescending and rude, but that's just his native tongue. That's how he talks. I agree. It's also, I'm with you. If he says just that's Fennell, then he's doing like a well actually, which you don't want to do.

And then he immediately segues with no punctuation into a helpful recipe, which I think turns this into a learning opportunity for everyone. It's a mind share. Yeah, I didn't know that you could fry it. Can I offer you one more fennel? Please do. Did you know that wild fennel is indigenous to Los Angeles and is all over the damn place right now?

We have a ton of wild fennel in our backyard. You do? Yeah. How exciting for you in your garden life. You can't eat it though. Don't eat the wild fennel. Why? Because it just is not.

I actually don't know whether it's poisonous, but it's apparently doesn't taste good. So don't go through it. How beautiful? It's like. Blessed be the fruit, would you say? No. That's upsetting. Also, fennel's an herb.

It's out of fruit. If we're going to be, if we're going to jamie over this shit. You're right. Yeah, but it's also like in the random canyons. Cool. Like you go running, then you like can smell some wild fennel right now. It definitely smells like funnel. It's a land of plenty here in L.A.

Yeah. Harvest Day. Wow. Me and Oprah. That's a good one. I'm glad I know about this now. It was really exciting. Thank you for letting me know.

No problem. I also was one other cue for you. Yeah. And then we will segue into mine. Yeah. Where are you at in Goop Health, the Goop Conference that occurred over the weekend? And subscribe. Guys, be smart.

Okay? It was expensive to attend. Minimum 500. Yeah, also just like, you know what? Go to a doctor or the health practitioner of your choosing and talk about what's right for you. I think Goop needs to lean into the e-commerce and out of the vitamins. That's my own take. I completely agree.

The real problem is that they've turned vitamins into e-commerce. Don't buy your vitamins from, I mean, do whatever you want, I guess. But I think, you know, just like we check our sources when we are really. reading news and Slevery Gossip and all other things. Like, check your sources on your health information. Another follow up for you. Can't believe you never discussed this either on the podcast or personally. Yeah.

The New York Times profile of Amanda Chantal Bacon. Yeah, that was astonishing. Did you read that? I, of course, did it. How many times did you read it? I read it a couple times. I knew you would have. I was pretty blown away by it.

I was like, wait, this is over. There's a lot more to cover here. That was my number one takeaway. Then I was like, wow, I need to find pictures of this woman. She sounds so beautiful based on all these descriptions. It's true. And then it was fascinating that Molly Young, she writes about Amanda Chantal Bacon started moon juice,

which sells like juices and various kinds of dusts, like brain dust, sex dust. Like all these dusts are supposed to be like additive to your life. And all of the ingredients are like not fact checkable because they're so obscure. It was a pretty shocking article for the, for the wellness space. I really enjoyed it. You may tell.

I thought it put a finger on a lot of the problems with all of this stuff from Goop to Moon Juice, which I have never tried. Me either. They do sell some dried mango that a friend of mine gave me once that was quite good. So, you know, I don't know. I guess I'm a hypocrite. But I just wanted to read this line from the Molly Young piece, which is that what Goop and accolites like Moon Juice sell is the notion that it's not only excusable but worthy for a person to spend hours a day focused on her tiniest mood shifts. food choices, beauty rituals, exercise habits, bathing routines, and sleep schedule. What they sell is self-absorption as the ultimate luxury product, which is a thing I've

been thinking about all the time. Totally. And I think it's very smart. And I say that with the knowledge that I participate in it. Yeah, we all do. It's fine. Yeah. It was very good.

You should read this article. Totally. Check it out. Okay. And finally, the one thing I can't stop thinking about is if I should hate Rita or or not and why the Internet hates her. because I love her new song, which is called Your Song. And when I hear it, I just like, I'm having such a great time.

I listen to it like 30 times in the last 36 hours. Okay. I don't know. I just love it. So can you remind me why I'm supposed to hate Rita ORA? Yes. So, you know, I can't speak for everyone. Sure.

Why does the Internet make fun of Rita Ora? Because what has Rita Ora done? Purchased a really good song by Ed Shearan and his collaborator. Yeah, but that was like last week and how long you've been hearing about Rita Oara. So I also liked her first song How We Do in 2012. Sure. I also remember that song. Yeah.

So we're just, so she's just like not good at people. And then it was also alleged, I think, that she had an affair with Jay-Z. I think that was a rumor that was floating around. Okay. She was also just generally a Rihanna copycat. Right. And a pretty. She also dated Calvin Harris, right?

That sounds right. I think before, Caleb. before Taylor Swift did. Almost called her a Caitlin. Can you see Taylor Swift being named Caitlin? Yes. Yeah, she's a Caitlin. Hold on.

I think also Rita Orra maybe dated Rob Kardashian. So here's one of the reasons. Yes, I think that's correct. Yeah, and they had a bad breakup. Here's one of the reasons that people make fun of Rita. Is because she has been in public life for five years. And we just listed like five to six notable celebrity facts. And I, who have an encyclopedia mind for these sorts of things, like I don't remember

or any of this. It's just like falling out of my brain. No one remembers her. No one can attach anything to her. So all of her attempts at becoming important and like a noteworthy celebrity have failed until now when she's purchased a wonderful song. Yes. I think this is a tide turner. It's a really good song. I mean, I do feel like people have said that a bunch of times with Reader and it's kind of part of the joke is that there's been a tide turner.

Uh-huh. And it has not turned the tide. You know, I don't know. I think she makes a lot of money. She has a lot of sponsorships. She is going to be on, you know, she's a reality TV show judge. She's around all the time and is working. Oh, she's on American Idol with Katie Perry, right?

Is she? I thought that she was on the fake, like, boy band. Oh, you're right. She's on boy band with Nick Carter, which I'll also be watching. Sure. I love the back. And Emma Bundin of the Spice Girls. Yes, correct.

Okay, I'm in. Okay. I think she is like... So she's bottom shelf pop star. Yeah. That's the problem. Okay. I'm willing to accept it for this song.

And I don't know whether that perception extends beyond the internet. Like, you know. I don't actually, I need to know how the people of the United Kingdom feel about her since she's British. But I will say one really poor tactical move on her part is like her two best songs are called How We Do and Your Song, which are the names of other extremely famous songs. Obviously, Ellen John's your songs. more famous but the game had how we do long before Rita ora came along right big mistake oh the other bad her other sin was collaborating with Aggie Azalia on Black Widow that was a tough one yeah okay so there's not a lot of pros to Rita orra however the song is so massive as they say in the

UK that perhaps this will change everything for her we'll see um listen to the song I really like it let us know what you think um thanks for listening everyone thanks guys we shall be back next week Thank you Hotel tonight. And don't forget to check out Bill Simmons and Kevin Durant.