The Press Box - 'Jam Session' — Scandals: Kardashians, Lena Dunham, and Taylor Swift–Lorde (Ep. 329)

Episode Date: July 13, 2017

The Ringer’s Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins discuss Kim Kardashian’s Snapchat scandal (5:00), Kendall and Kylie Jenner’s newest controversy (15:00), Lena Dunham’s dog drama (23:00), Lorde’s scoffing at Taylor Swift (33:30), and Ben Affleck’s new boo (42:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to Jam Session. I'm Juliette Lippman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. A midsummer jam. It is, indeed. What kind of fruit would a midsummer jam be? I feel like apricots are in right now? I literally have no idea. You say apricot. Interesting. I'm an apricot girl. I have never thought about how I say it before. I don't really say it a lot, to be honest. Me and my dad love apricot. Can you make a jam out of stone fruits? Yes, like apricot. Is that an apricot? Okay. I'm really into stone fruits right now. Yes, they're the best fruits. It's undeniable.

I had a nectarine last night that was transcendent. Does anyone ever make nectarine jam? They make peach jam. Yeah. Have you ever grilled peaches? Yes. It's one of my favorite desserts. Oh, that's, yeah.

Just legit. Anyway. A stone fruit jam. This is a stone fruit jam. And we will be talking about many things, including Johnny Depp's financial hardship. I don't know if we can call it that. Lena Dunham's dog controversy. We're going there.

I've been training. I'm ready. It's really going to be your time to shut. we will DTR some new and old relationships to dig into and of course we'll talk about one thing we just can't stop thinking about but first back to very well-mined ground that remains quite fertile the Kardashians lots of Kardashian controversies in the last two weeks yeah your favorite family the number one being

Rob Kardashian's despicable social media outburst in which he posted pornographic photos of his ex-girlfriend and baby mama black china. Yeah, revenge porn. Revenge porn. Kate Nibs wrote a good piece about this. I feel like there's actually not a ton to add here other than to say that his behavior was despicable. Totally.

And it's just not something you do. I also feel that the posts weren't taken down quickly enough. Absolutely. Because I accidentally clicked on a URL that took me to at Rob Kardashian. and the photos were still there, and I was, like, horrified and very upset that I saw them. Yes, both Instagram and Twitter took far too long because the photographs were absolutely violating the terms of service. And then, frankly, there were a lot of media companies that did not cover it responsibly. No.

And took a little too much glee in it, and it's just, it's gross. It crossed the line. My one note, it's shocking this hasn't really happened before with, like, a celebrity couple. Yeah, I guess, yes, I guess that's true. Though I suppose, I guess there's just, I don't know, I guess like, it's sort of like a real two-way street, right? Like, she certainly has pictures she probably could post. So I guess in maybe other more rational breakups, there's sort of like a, you know, don't throw stones. Yeah, you have to assume a couple things. In other relationships, there's probably kind of a mutual interest in not publicizing this stuff.

think it's very clear that Rob is not completely well. Yes. It's not totally clear what's going on, but that's even been a plotline on the show that the family is very concerned about him. They won't really name why. But it's just, this is the worst case scenario. And I do feel like there are a lot of gray lines in what we talk about with celebrity culture and paparazzi and all this stuff. And this was just across the line. This is just not something that happens. Yeah, there's really no question. Yeah. It's gross. So it's a shame. Yeah. That is not the only, kind of Kardashian scandal of late. That's the saddest one. Yes. Should we do Kendall and Kylie next? Or you want to go with Kim? Let's go with Kim, real quick. Okay. So I believe it was a

Snapchat post. Yes, it was. And I don't actually know what she was actually talking about, but some Snapchat people noticed that in the background corner of her Snapchat post was something that definitely resembled two small lines of cocaine. Yes. And Kim, to her credit, well, I guess we can call it to her credit. It does depend on whether you believe her or not. And I'm going to go ahead and say that I do believe her. I believe her, too. Kim immediately hopped on Twitter to say, and I'm just going to read it, I do not play with rumors like this, so I'm going to shut it down real quick. That's sugar from our candy mess from Dylan's candy shop, which I admire. You know, obviously it's also just very good celebrity.

You got to hop on that denial, whether it's true or not. But, you know, there's something about the idea of she's like, this is not something that we joke about that, like, I appreciate. Me too. Kim is still very good at this. But then on Snapchat, she did her own investigation. I guess they're traveling. And she realizes that it's not the candy.

It's a marble table. And the, like, the supposed lines are just like the part. Oh, you didn't know this? No. Oh, yes. I thought it ended with her, like, her denial. I know. So that came up on Snapchat, and she does her own kind of CSI, like, candy lines, but she's actually, like, points out the specific pattern and is, like, rubbing in,

and it's just very clearly marble, like the marbling of the table, which is very funny. How weird. Yeah, so there are some people who have suggested, yes, go ahead. So which city were they in when this happened? Because she very specifically said it was Dylan's candy. Right. Also, I should say, okay, yes, right, of course. I was going to say there are people who are saying the two Explanations means her story's not straight and she's lying. Because there's only Dylan's candy in L.A. and New York. Right. I will say she held up the Dillon's candy bag in the Snapchat. Now, obviously, someone could have gone and gotten the Dillon's Candy to stage it.

Or like shipped it to them or something. Yeah, absolutely. But she did, like, she made a point of holding up the Dillan's candy. So she's very practiced in the art of denial. Yes. And then the thing that really, she showed the marble table, you got a close-up, you got her interacting with it. and the patterns match. Okay. So I do actually believe her explanation.

And she kind of presents it as, you guys, she was like, I just assumed that's what it was because I don't mess around with that stuff. It's also, I think she doesn't actually say cocaine or drugs at any point. As far as I know, Kim is not really an imbibre of alcohol or a drug. So that's one of the reason I believe her. Absolutely. I totally agree. It's not her scene. But I thought it was, I might be wrong, but every.

I saw, it was a very conscious way to not even, like, use the nomenclature, which I thought was interesting. I think that's good. She has a lot of kids that follow her. Yeah, absolutely. And so, anyway, she presents it as, you know, I just assumed it was my kids, and I don't, I don't deal with that stuff, so I wanted to clarify it really quickly. But then I realized what it actually was. I believe her. There are a lot of people who don't. I believe her, too. This is a weird one to take up and be lying about. I guess so, though. You know, know, I constantly remain shocked by how much, you know, drug and, like, substance use there is, kind of that you don't know about until you know about it.

I don't think that's the case in this one, but you never really know. I believe her. Anyway, it was pitch-perfect PR by Kim, but, like, still a rare slip-up. You don't even normally get the mess-up in the first place from her. The Snapchat mess-up is like, or like the kind of like Insta-Story mess-up is one of my favorites. Oh, mine too. Well, sure. I mean, Serena forever.

Yeah, that's a good one. Even someone like Vicki Gumbelson from the Real Housewives, she posted an Instagram like a year or so ago where she's like trying to show off something. And she accidentally captures her reflection in like a window. And it shows that she's like not wearing a shirt. It was really funny. It was like fairly harmless, but it was hilarious.

That's pretty good. I love Housewives mistakes. Yeah. I just love Housewives. Yeah. Anyway, that's a good. Yeah, that's a good one. And so then the third kind of scandal that we need to.

I mean, there have been a million of them. In some ways, well, the Rob one's really bad. This is like an ongoing thing that the Kardashians do. I just find offensive, which is they... Oh, the Kendall and Kylie. Yeah. Sure. So they have like a new line.

They just have like so much like retail available. Like products, T-shirts, makeup, etc. Yeah, which I want to come back to. And so this last week they sold T-shirts with band and like posters and like cover art on them without licensing the images. So they got sued. And specifically they used the images of Biggie and Tupac without the family's permissions. And those families spoke out about it. I think there was a rock band that they did as well.

Like Ledz Applin or something like that. And as you very astutely pointed out, the scandal happened within hours. Of this was, the teachers were out there, people called them out, and then they apologized and pulled the merchandise immediately. In this particular case, I think my theory was just that it was. was copyright related, so they had to, or else they were going to owe a lot of people, a lot of money. It was also, like, clearly a legal violation. Yes.

Whereas many of their other scandals are more, like, offensive in terms of, like, cultural appropriation, et cetera. But this is still cultural appropriation. This is sort of like, right. Their capitalism has made the consequences more obvious. Right. But their sort of, like, being in the world is as offensive as ever, in my opinion. Correct.

You made this interesting point, and I think these three scannos are kind of like a nice. It's a check jump. It's a case study. Yeah. But the only true apology and we're going to fix this and figure it out is when there's money on the line. Yeah. With Kylie and Kendall. Yeah, which is absolutely not surprising, but it's kind of astonishing what that they can get away with.

It's true. That's a really good point. Yeah. And that people are only really held to task when there's money on the line. Yeah. The Kardashians increasingly have a lot of money on the line, so I'm curious how it's all going to work out for them. I know. You know, Kate Nibs wrote a very smart piece a couple months ago now, I think, on the ringer.

And it was about watching the Kardashian show, but the thrust of the piece was that as these various scandals kind of pop up and they get darker and darker, the Kardashian, the Rob Kardashian. storyline being a part of that, Kim's robbery being part of it. She was just kind of like, this is no longer an escapist pleasure. It's gotten a little darker to watch the show. It seems kind of like the glossy empire is unraveling a bit. And I think we're kind of seeing that more and more. Yeah, I completely agree. I think the ratio of, you know, from our perspective,

the ratio of screw-ups to triumph. To triumph is minimal. as I say that though, you pointed out that there is a product with a Kardashian name on it. Any product you think of, you can buy it with a Kardashian name on it. It may be just a public perception thing, and they might just be raking in the money still. Kylie and Kendall are probably richer than Chloe and Courtney in my guess. Oh, absolutely. Which is weird, because they're so much younger.

Well, they started earlier. Yeah. They also have like more, like, I think Chloe has, Chloe and Kardashian's products, like, Chloe and Courtney's products are far more, like, esoteric. Kylie and Kendall market to, like, their peers really well, which is, like, women, girls, like 16 to 25. Right. Well, I think they also caught their peers when they were 12 years old.

And when you're 12, you can be convinced by anything as, like, my old collection of Bath and BodyWorks products, well, that, you know, can convince you. But they've still grown with them. Though I think this is interesting. Did you happen to see the thread why we decided to unstand? No. This was really great. We'll share this.

Everyone should go look it up. So it's a Twitter account called Kendall Updates. Well, I guess it's whatever. That's the name. We all have to do a whole other episode on like fan accounts. Yeah, absolutely. There's one for Chandler Parsons. That's I'm very familiar with.

That's incredible. It's like so creepy in the attention to detail. of like who he's interacting with and like on on social media and also who's hanging out with in real life is like so intense it's crazy it's unreal I think there's one for everyone which is sort of I know I don't know you're gonna have passions in life that's so that's so understanding Amanda it's what I don't know I don't know it's like you know what we're just like when it's on Reddit and it's about Game of Thrones we're like yeah this is totally normal it's just like the culture and when it's like teen girls they're

like we're like this is really weird go outside so I stand with the teen girls I think it's I think it's often not teen girls, though. I think it's often like... That's a valid point. Adults. Well, I mean, sure. But, you know, I think that's also true of people on Reddit, so... I would have been a disaster of a teen in the social media era. I was so in love with the backstreet boys when I was like, this is an incredibly embarrassing story. And just speaks to how psychotic I was slash might be. We might have to cut this. You'll tell me. Okay.

When I was like 13, I just loved the backstreet boys so much. Sure. And I was like, how can I get them to, like, know how much I'm... I love them. Sure. And I never did this, but my plan was. Great. This is great. To find the largest, like, parcel box possible. Okay. To, like send something huge, but only put, like, a single letter inside. So they'd be so, they'd be so intrigued as to what was in it that they would have to open it. That's not that crazy, but that is, like, a great snapshot. Because that's definitely some sort of rom-com plot, right? Of, like, the box inside the box, inside the box, inside the box is how you show your love.

So it's just your influences coming together in one story, which is perfect. That's great. Do we leave this in? Yeah, we leave it in. Okay. Yeah, we do. It's not embarrassing. You were 13.

Also, you didn't do it. No, but I wanted to. That's fine. I was like, how do I get a box the size of a shipping container? That's what I was like a matching in my head. Oh, that's how big. Yeah. Okay.

That's great. Never worked out. I think it's because, like, I learned in school that you could mail anything as long as how they're right about a postage. So I was like, okay. What can I? Well, then. That's good.

I think it was a good thought. I think it was also good restraint not to do it. You know, we are as often defined by the things we don't do as the things we do. So I think that's good. Okay. Thanks for the support. Anyway, back to fan accounts. Kendall updates.

So why we decided to unstand a thread. Which, by the way, why we decided to unstand, colon, a thread is just like you could write a sociology paper on that alone. Probably will at some point. Probably. I'm not going to read the whole thing because it's quite a long thread filled with many visual examples, but the next tweet is, disclaimer, we are aware we should have stopped giving her a pass a long time ago, but at least we came to our senses, okay, with no exclamation, which is great. And then it's just a list, like, snapshot by snapshot of everything that Kendall has done wrong.

Examples include doing what the Jenner's do best, stealing from other cultures. and it's her with a bunch of like poor choices in fashion, wore a burka as a disguise, calls the paparazzi's and it does this, and it's like her tailgating a paparazzi, the Pepsi video, it just goes on and on and on, I'm still scrolling. This is a really fast, and then Kendall actually blocked these people. She did. We know that we made it to Kendall Jenner, and she blocked them.

Interesting. So this is a really fascinating mini, first of all, this is just as online culture. and what teens will do, or I guess we don't know their teens, what stands will do. And also kind of the power that a stand has at this point, because I saw this thread everywhere. Interesting. And it obviously made it to Kendall, and she blocked it. And, like, I do feel when we write the inevitable rise and fall of the Kardashians, like, that this will be, you know, a major evidence point, which is fascinating, because it's just a weird Twitter thread from an anonymous person with a stand.

Twitter account. Do you feel comfortable saying we're on the downward slope of their popularity? I mean, that's kind of what I was saying. I think so from where I'm sitting. But I don't own any Kardashian shit. And like a lot of people do and a lot of people are still buying them. When Paris Hilton was on the way down, were we aware that the Kardashians were on the way up? I don't think so because the first Kardashians show, I think it was 07. Oh, 7. Yeah. And Paris was still in her moment. Yeah. It was towards the end, though, because Paris's moment, the simple life was when it was like 0-2-03, right? Right, but I feel like 2007 was like all of the paparazzi drama.

I mean, 2007 is also Brittany and it was quite a year. 07 was a real celebrity shift. Yes. That's interesting, because I don't know what's next. I don't know who's next. I mean, I don't either, and I feel like I have a question for you on that note. How familiar are you with Sean Mendez, not his music, but like his person? Not at all.

Because that is like the kind of person who's really popular to teens and he is on the Is it a cheer in the actual popular version of that? And now he has to like quit Twitter because people are mean to him. I'm not sorry. I'm not sorry. You know how like it's really problematic that like the president can block people? Yes. I kind of think that if you have a certain number of followers, you shouldn't be able to block anyone.

Just use the me button or just get off. Oh, interesting. Like I think if you're above 10 million, you shouldn't be able to block people. because then you're suppressing Well it's just sort of like you're a public figure People should be able to access you in that kind of way Yeah Why does Kendall Jenner

She doesn't get to block people I don't know Her life's so mediated to begin with Is she really need to block people Just get off Twitter I don't know Maybe that's like really harsh But just think about it

I'm thinking about it right now This is interesting Because Why was I I was thinking about this this morning And just the basic idea of I was actually thinking about it with Lena and the dog, which we'll come back to. But the extent to which a celebrity participates in the act of being a celebrity.

Yeah. And it's honestly, they choose to do more than you think. And, you know, it's the example we always give of you always see Ben Affleck and paparazzi photos and you never see Matt Damon. Yeah. And those people are equally famous. And one person is making one set of decisions and another person is making another set. And it's true. More on Ben later.

Yeah. And that is true. for anyone that you can think of. And the people you know a lot about have almost always participated and encouraged that level of attention. And you know about them because on some level they want you to know about them.

Probably not as much as you do and not in the way because you can always lose control, but people are participating. You don't get the 10 million followers without courting the fans. Yeah. So in that sense, but you know, again, at the same time... No one should be targeted.

No one should be hate speech, but like, I don't know. And there's also this thing of just like, Twitter is different from like going to a restaurant, you know? It kind of flattens everything in a way that, you know, everybody probably should just have like the same rights and abilities to do things. Like going outside is more of a right than like using Twitter is though. So I'm just sort of like, get off Twitter then, leave. Yeah, platforms aren't right as we learn from time to time.

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. And maybe this is like that's like the wrong. I'm going to think more about it. We can come back to it in the future. It's interesting. Thank you.

It's, you know, we're going to keep tracking them because I think it's like kind of, I'm curious about like who's next and what's next. You're absolutely right. We're in a celebrity turning point. And I think we've honestly been in a turning point since the end of last year. And basically since the robbery and Kim's kind of defection and then Taylor Swift's disappearance. And yeah, there's a vacancy. And at the same time, kind of the way we annoy celebrities and how we define a celebrity is changing. We're going to keep on the case.

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See for yourself, download the Hotel Tonight app now. Okay, the hottest topic right now. The Lena Donum Dog Controversy. the Lafair Lambie. Should I give the synopsis or shall you? Here's what I want to do before the synopsis. I just want to say one thing that we can start with. An opening statement from Amanda Dobbins.

It's not an opening statement. It's important to remember in everything we're about to discuss that the one thing both parties can agree on is that the dog is now healthy and happy in his new home. The dog is okay. I feel like we're in like the Scopes monkey trial. But the dog, like, I know. You're fighting for the right to teach evolution. As we are talking about this, the dog's okay. The dog's healthy.

That's great. Shout out to Lammy. Yeah, and that's good. And we, so the dog's okay. And we can let loose. And I think that's basically what happens is this is a scandal where there are no victims. And so everyone's just been crazy. So we can have fun with it.

Yes. So go ahead, explain the scandal. Lena Donham had a dog that she posted about on. A lot, very often on social media. And she also wrote a New Yorker article about him. And wrote a New Yorker article about him. Not just for New Yorker.com. Yes, literally in print.

In print. You could find it at your local library on like microfilm. Or as a PDF on the New Yorker.com, if you have access. You can remember your login. And the computer doesn't keep kicking you out. I use my dad's. It's tricky. Anyway, she did an Instagram post about why she was no long.

posting about Lammy. Well, could I clarify one thing? Yes, please. She had very publicly adopted two other dogs. Right. And Lambie, Lamby. I don't know. They're like small and have curly hair.

Carry on. She had once been public about, very public about Lammy and he had kind of disappeared. And then there were two new dogs and people started asking questions. And so she posted, sorry, I interrupted. Go ahead. No problem. She posted about why she was no longer posting about Lammy. and the answer was that she had decided to give the dog back.

Let me just read what she wrote. Okay. It's really long. Can you only read part of it? Yes, I will only read. It begins with a lot of you have been asking where a lambie is these days since he's always been the star of my gram. Do you call him lambie or lambie? I was going to ask that.

You don't say a lamb is not a lamb. I have actually not seen a decisive verdict on this. So I think you should say lambie and I should say lambie. Just to reflect the confusion in the world. I'll carry on then. So then she said, but I feel I have to share that last March, after four years of challenging behavior and aggression that could not be treated with training or medication

or consistent loving dog ownership, Lammy went to live at an amazing professional facility in Los Angeles where an awesome person named, whatever, who's educated and rescue dogs specific trauma, loves him so hard. Blah, blah, blah. Hold on. This next sentence is really crucial.

Okay, sorry. So you've got to read it because we'll come back to it. terrible abuse as a pup that made having him in a typical home environment dangerous to him and others we need to be responsible to ourselves our neighbors and especially our beloved boy okay so that's that's the crucial part okay um and you know she just goes on for much more there's a PS and it ends with you will always have been your dogs first stop outside shelter life and that's beautiful it's encouraging people to continue rescuing dogs okay and so from here it took a turn because the shelter from what she rescued rescued it called bark

b a rc in brooklyn was like actually the dog had no no behavior issues that we were aware of lena yeah is is we don't know we don't know anything about this and from there just spun out of control and then there was a lot of there was a lot of back and forth of slamming lina then defending lina a lot of opinions being had and then another writer for the new york times magazine Taffy Ackner added a coda on this by saying that her sister was Lena's vet and that Lena was not in the wrong. And my main question after this entire situation is that to HIPAA laws apply to vets as well. Are we doing questions? I can't believe I sat silently through all of that. I only interjected once, which is really hard for me. Okay. I do want to ask the HIPAA question.

Let's start at the beginning. So the summary, as you pointed out, is that it was just a media nightmare. Yes. And everyone behaved badly publicly. Every single person, except for the dog who's now healthy, just lost their minds. And I do think it's because it was sort of this perfect internet scandal in that there is, it's extremely petty and everyone's okay. It's only feelings that are hurt over. Listen, it's important to give healthy homes to dogs.

I don't want to. I'm not a huge dog person, but like... What was the name of the Price's right host? Bob Barker. Bob Barker. He would have agreed as well. Yeah. He was a dog rights activist.

Respect all life. So that's... Do you feel like about spiders? No. Let's not get into the Eganism. No, that's like a whole other thing. Sorry, that was so mean. It's just like, you know, I don't want to diminish the importance of like, you know,

being nice to dogs or whatever, but this is very low stakes. This is very silly. And people responded accordingly. This is in part because the spokesperson for the bark shelter, which is apparently like a very reputable shelter. I know a lot of people in Brooklyn who have gotten dogs from there and said it was like very great and cool. Including our colleague Roger Sherman. Oh yeah. He's a big bark fan.

His interview is one of the most transcendently petty interviews that I have read in some time. This person has a real gift for giving just brink. brutal quotes. I would like to read a couple of them. Please do. When she adopted the dog from us, it wasn't crazy. Vasquez continued. I have pictures of the dog loving on Lena and her mom,

which is weird if the dog was abused. It wouldn't be cuddling with her or be in the bed with her, quote, boyfriend, end quote, in the pages of Vogue. Which is just... I don't know, but it's so mean. That's just, it's, yeah. It's also just like, it's mean to Lena. It's mean to Jack.

It's mean to the concept. of boyfriends. Yeah, but it's really bad. I know, but it's so funny, though. It's like, it's artful. This is, this is how, this is how you do it. Yeah, this is how to throw someone under the Boston public. This is a masterclass. Can I read the other? Can I? Yes. Please do. You know, there are some other, he explains, you know, that they have a process and the records aren't the same and they wouldn't have given, put a dog in a situation where they didn't think the owner could handle it, et cetera, et cetera. It ends with, you know, it. It ends with, It's just hard to believe the dog was nasty when she took Lambie to every green room with her when Girls was still a thing four years ago.

Oh, my God. Ah, that's so good. It's so, listen, that's just, if you ever need to insult someone, that's how to do it. That's, there's art. Now there's a text for you to refer to. It's art. Does this, this shady interview make you side with Lena or side with the bark? because I am not a dog person, but I'm definitely on Team Lena here.

Yeah, I would say, I mean, this is brutal. And I am gleefully taking, listen, I'm on the record gleefully taking joy in it just because it is. I'm happy to have a feud in which I'm comfortable taking a side. Exactly. Yeah. It feels great to have an opinion and let it free. But yeah, of course I feel bad for her. She had a dog that she loved and that she didn't know how to take care of or couldn't take care of.

That didn't even factor in my thinking. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's what I feel bad about. I'm just like, oh, this was probably hard for you. I believe that it was emotionally traumatic and you missed this dog, and now people are just being dicks to you on the internet, which, like, let's be clear this person is just being, like, very rude on the internet. I can't believe Vogue also ran this.

It's in Vogue, right? This interview? Oh, is it? Oh, no, no. I thought you said that. Oh, no, no, no. That's from his quote. Oh, right.

Yeah. My bad. No, this is on Yahoo Celebrity. Oh, great. I can't so. That's even better. Yeah, I forgot that's where this started. I think they're just being really petty.

And then I think everyone else, like, it's hard for me to say that everyone was too mean when I'm just on here being like, ah, this is hilarious. But there was a level of viciousness to it. Oh, yes. She gets so much hate. People just hate her. Yeah, of course. She does. And it's like, it doesn't, it is not, as they say, a proportionate response to the thing that's going on.

and is actually pretty mean. I just think most people are just mean. This is really petty in a beautiful way, this particular interview. And I have respect for that without being like, oh, I feel sorry for her. Everyone piles on. I think everyone also

did really seize that opportunity of this is a very low stakes petty moment where I can really let out a lot of frustration about other issues on this. Yeah, we just spent like 20 minutes tiptoeing around like racial appropriation and like revenge porn.

Exactly. It feels invigorating to have a fight over a social media post and whether or not a dog that is now totally fine. Exactly. The dog's fine. The dog's fine. Lena's fine. Everyone's fine.

It feels great to have a good old fashioned scandal in which we could take aside. So thank you, Lena Donno. It was fantastic. You've done it as a service. We needed this. This is what summer is for. It was really invigorating is the word, triumphant, just ridiculous. It's great. We just don't need to, so many more celebrity scandals require delicate discussion.

That's very true. This does not. No, it was great. Because everyone's fine. Everyone's fine. The dog is healthy. I feel like this is begging for like some kind of short off-Broadway musical. This whole situation. Like the people who wrote Avenue Q, are they available for this? I feel like this would be really good fodder. That's how I feel about this. It's great. All right. Let's DTR. Two big relationships to get into. Let's just transition from one squad member to two others. Oh, sure, yeah.

DTR, Lord and Taylor Swift. Yes, so short version, Lord was on an Australian morning show, Sunrise, the Australian today, promoting her new album. They asked her about the squad and she rolled her eyes and was like, I don't really hang out with those people that much. Yes. And then felt the need to issue a three paragraph. It's not a notes app.

What do you think this app is that she's, is this Word where she's writing this apology that she screenshotsed and put on Twitter? Yeah, it looks like the default font of Microsoft Word. So I guess she's not into Google Doc. She's probably scared of the cloud. She had to issue a three-paragraph clarification about how Taylor is a dear friend. All small case, no capital letters. I feel that the tyranny of not using capital letters has gone too far. I'm really opposed to it.

I just don't know why we can't capitalize our first character after a period, people, or the beginning of a line. Is that in all situations? It's with too many people I text with. Okay. And Lord as well. Yeah. No, this is true. Although this is, you don't capitalize in Slack, do you?

I can't remember. It depends on how lazy I'm feeling. It really goes back and forth. I don't capitalize on Slack or on G-Chap. Well, this is why you should capitalize in Slack. because you don't want people to be able to easily tell when you're on your phone. Oh. Because on your phone, it will auto-capitalize for you.

Oh, that's interesting. I was just saying, I think, okay, that's a great tip, and that's a classic Juliet moment. I'm such a crazy stalker. No, it's good. It's smart. That's important. Like, that's a great work tip for everyone, just so you guys know. It's like you got to take the send from my iPhone out of your email signature just so no one knows where you are at any given time.

See, I leave that as a power move. and also to indicate why my email response is short. Ah. I'm just, but why do people need to know? People need to take what they get from you and when they get it. That's, you know what?

I just, I'm just always, I don't know. I'm just, I think I've revealed the depths of my craziness. I think it's great. I was just yelling about like, you know,

a fucking dog, so whatever. Anyway, back to Lord and her three paragraph classification. Wait, no, I want to go back to, I was just thinking about the capitalization.

I don't think I'm consistent because I try to like paint with all the colors in the paint. box or something? Sure. But does that make me a psychopath? No, I don't think so. Okay. I think stringently being like no caps or all caps

is crazier. Yeah. And I just think the no caps is a real choice that I know several people to make and I don't support it. And then I feel like pressured into it because I feel like it looks weird. I don't know. I don't like it. In a casual texting. It is very, if one person is doing no caps in punctuation and the other

person is writing in complete sentence, it's like very stark. Yeah, I know. You know. It's like talking to a parent who still puts like the periods and the love mom on the end of everything. What is this? A generation of E.E. Cummings is? Like, come on. It's very weird. Anyway, Lord issued a three paragraph clarification via Twitter, not on the notes app, no capital letters. And, you know, it's just like... I'm sorry, what a time.

Everything you just said is really important. And it's just like no capital letters means one thing in the, not in the notes app means one thing. what a world we're living in. I know. What a midsummer jam. What I'm seriously. A stone fruit jam. And she says, I can imagine her saying this in her Kiwi accent.

Really shady to wake up to headlines at whether or not you've jumped ship on someone you deeply respect and ride for. I want to say one more time that Taylor has been there for me in all my dark and light moments these past five years, all of them. I feel truly terrible that would ever seem like I wasn't faithfully her person. I fucked up an interview question. Now go sip a beverage and head out on a walk. Do you buy this? I like that I wasn't faithfully her person. Massive shout out to my one true queen, Shonda Rhymes.

The impact of the you're my person. It's everywhere. That is a really, that's a linguistic change that she made. Absolutely. And if you don't know, it's how Meredith and Christina used to refer to each other to differentiate between their relationship versus their romantic relationships. It's honestly one of the best contributions to the language of friendship, like probably in the history of English.

100% of great. It's so beautiful. I feel emotional talking about it. I think that's beautiful. I would really be willing to put money down to the fact that Lord doesn't know where that's from. Agree. Well, can you? Okay. No. Okay. You think Lord's watching Grace? In like a hipster way. Can't you imagine that? Of like, you know, when she was like on her tour bus. Yeah, on her weird breakup, binge or whatever and was like, and now I'm like really into sitting in hotel rooms and watching Grace. I could see that happening. Shonda Rimes is kind of like

the Bronte of our generation. It's true. I actually mean that. I'm not saying that facetiously. I don't think you were. I think I need to write about this. Thanks for the idea. That's great. Anyway, I do buy this. I think Lord's very earnest. Here are two things I have to say.

So I watched the interview in question. And it's funny that you said you could imagine her Kiwi accent, because I am still just completely thrown by it. That's not an accent I'm interacting with on a day-to-day basis. And I do have a hard time parsing it. So I don't feel like I have. a total handle on the inflection and body language, except to say that I saw that eye roll. And that was like an eye roll.

And I think it's probably an eye roll to the concept of squad, which I understand. And I would also, I have a group of female friends. And if you call them a squad, I would also physically convulse. So I get it. Also, one thing that I wouldn't like is just because I'm friends with someone who has a squad, doesn't mean the squad is my squad. Right. And I think the other thing, I think that's just a basic reaction to a word that is very annoying right now. I do suspect it's a little bit of reaction to the specific squad in question.

It's not a good time to be a part of that squad. No. Which again, I just can't believe how long it has been of just Taylor hiding in the dark. I know. But I honestly, Laura's trying to sell an album. I don't think that's a good association for her, especially with the people that she's marketing the album to. Totally. She's trying to be like a kind of like an outsider.

Yes. The outsider who's in. Yeah. I don't think that it's that. I don't think that's what she was thinking. Possibly a little subconscious. But and I actually do believe that she's friends with Taylor Swift and she feels bad about this. I don't think Lord's like a bad person.

But as you said immediately like it's a little protesting too much. There's something going on here. It was kind of an honest reaction. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. We all have our friends. Friendship ebbs and flows.

Yeah. That's totally okay. Yeah. Good luck to them. I believe in friendships. Yeah. Another DTR. This one is hard for me.

Why? Ben Affleck and his new G.F., allegedly. Lindsay Shukas. Well, possibly not that new. Right. So Ben Affleck has been seen at his gas station and at his Starbucks, his two spots. Wasn't there also a pizza place? Yeah, he's been photographed ad nauseum for the last five years with a new woman who is not Jennifer

Garner, not new to him or to the people who've known her whole life, but new to us. Her name is Lindsay Shukas. Her husband, her ex-husband, is the writer, head writer on late night with Seth Myers, whatever his show is called. And she's the music supervisor or the music booker for Saturday Night Live. Yes. And it's rumored that they have had a fling off and on for many years. and then it was rumored that there was a Twitter account started by her to combat these rumors,

but it turned out to not be her. And they seemed to be an item. So they're definitely an item. We know that to be true. Yes. I'm reading from people. Okay. Multiple sources have told people that Affleck and Sugar started having an affair in 2013,

two years before the actor and Garner announced their separation. She has since publicly denied this. like she took to Facebook and I'm like I'm not commenting it except to say there's no affair I still people is still supposed to be pretty reliable they've also been the like Bible for the

Garner Afflex right so it's this is these multiple sources are probably on one side yeah I find it really hard to believe just because as you noticed noted the amount of time

the amount he's been photographed yeah and the number of rumors and other people that he's been linked to etc. Yeah. I just don't know how you would pull it off, frankly. Yeah.

I just don't really, I don't know. I just have such a soft spot for Ben Affleck. It's inexplicable. So do I. I just want the best from him and for him. I agree. I hope he sorts it all out. Me too.

I think our DTR is that they're definitely dating now because they went and got pizza. And that our other DTR is like unclear. And I mean, I normally trust people. I'm sort of trying to figure out what sources I even trust anymore because you can't totally trust us weekly. And I wonder whether people is kind of messing with its formula. Yeah, I don't know what people's formula is these days. I don't really either.

That's a good point. Okay. That was invigorating, just like the lambie fight. The second half of this podcast is making me feel great. Okay, I'm so glad. Let's move on to our final segment of the day. Yes. One thing just can't stop thinking about.

You go first. Oh, okay, this is classic me. Great. I hope it has to do with Martha Stewart or gardening. No, though. I forgot to tell you that I bought an old Martha Stewart's first book, entertaining. Like, I bought a copy of it on vacation. Like, at a used bookstore, and it's really glorious. No, it's about skincare.

It's about the rock skin care routine. Wonderful. Which someone just tweeted out, like, I really need to know what the rock skin care routine is. and then the Rock himself responded. Ha, yes, ma'am. Nutrina deep cream face wash, lancerre or la Merre creams, and tequila often, not on your face, but drinking it, winky face.

I think that this is a great little life manual, and it made me realize that I would definitely buy into the Rock as a lifestyle guru, definitely before presidential candidate. Thank you. Okay, this is great. You've got the drugstore face wash. You've got this splurge, treat yourself, face cream. Le Maire is like very nice.

And then tequila, because you got to enjoy life. That's the secret to great skin. This is great. He should just go ahead and sell this right now. The Rock has got everything going right. It's true. He just knows how to do things. Except sometimes he complains too much about critics.

Yes, occasionally. That's okay. This is a great regime. I think it does sound great. Also, I like that it begins like a very pedestrian product. I do too. I like the mix. Me too.

Yeah. Yeah, it all makes sense. Okay. All right. Mine is an Instagram, from Diane von Fersenberg. Okay, this is incredible. And, you know, celebrities love to go on vacation in the summer, as we all do, except

their vacations are way better. And this summer, there's a crew hanging out in Tahiti, I think, in Bora Bora, and the real DVF captured part of some of her travel companions. And they included Bradley Cooper and his main squeeze in Baby Mama, Irina Shake. who honestly, like she has the elisha of a candidate thing where she looks different in every single photograph. Yeah, very true. Ricky Van Bean and Allison Williams, who were married.

Yes. He started college humor and she was Marnie on girls and now and forever. And Anderson Cooper of CNN. And they're just out on the seas, living the good life. I wouldn't go to Bora Bora in the summer, to be honest. To me, I'm just like, well, you don't need to go that far for warm beach weather. I would say that for like January, February. But that's just me.

It's a great point though. Maybe they're actually looking for privacy except for when they publish it on Instagram. I think they're a lot of, I don't know. You know what seems like a very good private place to go on vacation because it doesn't seem cool? Yeah. Florida Keys. I've never been.

They're very nice. I've heard they're nice. I think that would be one of my spots. Not that far away. You have to go to like an interior key. You can't go to Key West. Okay. Just because Key West is like the famous one.

Sure. It's nice there. It's pretty human. Okay. I bet you're not. Florida. I mean, I guess in the summer, possibly. Yeah.

Anyway, this is a real crew together. What do you think Bradley Cooper? I just want, sorry, go ahead. Yeah. I just think the connection here is Barry Diller. Yeah, I was going to ask, is it Diane's got or Barry Diller's? I think it's Barry Dillers. This is a media skewing crowd.

IAC, Barry Diller's company, bought College Humor. Yes. And Anderson Cooper is in the media. He's so true. Part of the fake news network to CNN. And Bradley Cooper, I mean, he's just all over the place. I love Bradley Cooper.

We got two coops here. It's a little overwhelming. I know. I love B-Coops, though. I don't know why, but I just really enjoy him. Is that a live nation tank top? He's wearing a live nation tank top. It looks like a T-shirt, which he cut the arms off,

which is really weird for, like, an adult man to do that, but that's fine. It's just really weird. I don't know. But the thing is, I don't find, I bet they have a lot to talk about this group. I just feel like they're kind of all in the same wavelength. Who do you think is dominating the conversation? Bradley Cooper. I 100% agree with you.

It's Bradley Cooper just being like Anderson, here is another take that I have. And Anderson's like, okay. Okay, okay. Absolutely. Interesting. Okay. Definitely. Oh, I forgot also we have the Brian Williams, Anderson Cooper, like cable news network connection.

There's just a lot going on here. People have had things in comment. And Bradley Cooper, even though he's with Irene Shake, who's like a really hot supermodel, and he is an Oscar nominee and like one of the most famous actors in the world. I think it was actually a really regular guy as far as actors go. Like, he lived in Philadelphia with his mom until like five years ago. I just think that's, I think he's just weird. I don't know what's going on with it.

He's weird. He's just like always dressing like father John Misty and like making burnt and like limitless. And I can't figure it out. Most under-discussed thing about Bradley Cooper is his hair plugs. This man has got great hair right here. And I've been, I remember him on Jack and Bobby. That's not the hair line he had in 2004. Okay.

And I support it. I think he looks great. Yeah. Related to hair, about once a month I think about. Have I said this on a podcast already? I don't think so. I would, if we as a global community could agree to just turn our heads while Prince William just got full hair plugs and a full head of hair and just restored it and he does it. And we all agree to never talk about it, never acknowledge it, never make him feel guilty.

Like, do you think that that would work? Yeah. I just really think we should do that. The English people did it for Wayne Rooney. They can do it for their prints. Okay. On that note, we support you. Do what you will with your hair, diet, shave it off, get hair plugs, whatever you want.

We'll accept you here on jam session. That's very true. Thanks to Lena Dunham and thanks to hotel tonight. Have a great week and we will be back soon.