The Press Box - 'Jam Session' With Kate Knibbs (Ep. 297)

Episode Date: April 19, 2017

The Ringer's Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins discuss Harry Styles's 'Rolling Stone' cover (5:00), Styles living in Ben Winston's attic (10:00), and dating Taylor Swift (14:00). Then, Ringer staff writer Kate Knibbs joins to discuss internet gossipmonger Nik Richie's 'The Dirty' (17:45) and the best place to find gossip in 2017 (26:00). Finally, Juliet and Amanda give their thoughts on Serena's snap (33:00), Meghan Markle's role with the British royal family (38:00), and more Chris Evans (41:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The NBA playoffs are here and we have you covered with the Ringer MBA show hosted by Chris Vernon, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays all through the postseason. You can hear the Ringer's NBA experts, media members, coaches and players breaking down all of the action. Make sure to subscribe to the Ringer NBA show on Apple, SoundCloud, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcast. And now it's time for Jam Session. Welcome to Jam Session. I'm Juliet Whitman. I'm Amanda Dobbins. A lot of celebrity news this week, Amanda. It's very exciting. Yeah. Let's just get into our hottest topic, which is the Rolling Stone Haring Style Profiles. This was really... This was a jam session special. This was made for us. I was really excited about it. I just have some questions. I don't have any magazine experience, but you do.

Okay. Well, some. How do you start working on something like this with Harry Styles a year in advance? Like, I just don't even get it. Like, this started in January 2016. And I'm just like, God, what a long project. I guess it's like, that's partially probably Cameron Crow being able to do that. Yeah, I do think that the personalities involve,

kind of extend this particular piece. But yeah, print magazines, biweekly or monthly print magazines, take a long fucking time. They start way in advance. It's so crazy. Like January 2016, so many things were radically different in my life. You didn't even live in California yet. Is that true? You moved in February.

Is that how far back this started? Wow. Like, just it was a different world. It's crazy. Yeah, that's very true. True. So then it's like basically from January 2016 to more or less now, although, you know, there's some check-ins and whatnot. I'm sure there's some supplementary additions at the end. They spent a year together. You know, I suppose the thought here, if you read a New Yorker profile,

it will take the place over several months, and I think, or even six months or nine months, and if you want to get Cameron Crow, frankly, I don't really know what else he's doing right now. But if you want to get him- updating his website, Andy CoolNews.com. or something. What's it called? No, it's not. It's called like the uncool.

Hold on. I'll all let you know the name of it. Carry on. Cameron Crow, not busy, is your point. I'm sure that Cameron Crow, you know, a definitive profile of Harry Styles was what was promised. Right. And this is close to it.

I think really as close as we can get, as Cameron Crow takes pains to point out how guarded Harry Styles is. Exactly. With the microphone around him. Yes. So, you know, I don't think Harry is, what was your overall takeaway of this before I start? My overall takeaway of this is that Harry is excellent at being a celebrity. Just excellent.

He's figured it out at the young age of 23. And he apparently, let's just call him by what his friends do, H. Okay. First of all, H is not easier to say than Harry. Harry is much easier. Yeah, but it's more affectionate. Sure, H. Osh, as they say in French, would be better.

Okay. I'll let him know. Maybe when you two meet, that's how you can single out in your relationship with him. What was your takeaway? I think that he is very good at being a celebrity, as you noted, though I do think that it is. I believe that true celebrity is a natural gift that some people have it and some people don't. For better and for worse is the case maybe. And Harry Styles definitely has it, and he's had it since like the age of 15, which has been extremely uncomfortable for everyone who has been aware of him.

as long as we've been aware for him. I was talking about this last night. Harry Styles is kind of baby Ryan Gosling for me. Oh, interesting. I find him disarmingly charming. I honestly can't really watch anything involving hair styles. You're squirming a little bit in your seat. I know, without blushing.

It's really, he's extremely charming, handsome, stylish, cool. Everything is kind of there in the DNA, and I don't think that he has a ton to say. Are you worried about him becoming a Scientologist? Oh, interesting. He does seem vulnerable to that. I'm a little worried about it. What specifically? He apparently is very close with his mom and his sister and, like, everyone who's known him for a while references his family as sort of, like, being really instrumental and, like, making him

a good guy and, like, turning him into the person he is today. Okay. But he seems really impressionable to me. Like, he just seems, like, kind of looking for a community. Like, there's a couple of points in the profile where I'm like, oh, he's. just wanted a home. Oh, he just wanted to be accepted. Are you referring to when he moved into...

That was the second one. The first one is he's, like, so happy to have a band that he's like, like, he's kind of like the center of. And they're like, he's like so happy to be working with musicians, like in the various studio sessions. Well, yeah, but don't you think that's because he had to work with the rest of, like, one direction? Yeah, he said that, like, he's happy.

It's not democracy anymore. But he just seems so, like, thankful to be around musicians, like, to, like, help that's what I meant, because those people are not musicians. No shots. Sure. Sorry, but shots. Sure. I think they're all trying in their own rights now.

now. But then yes, the other was when he just moved into Ben Winston's home, even though he's a modern Orthodox Jew. It's like pretty radical, radically different than most English people who are just Protestant. Also, he was just, he took a mattress into an attic. He moved into someone's attic. Yeah. Which is, you know, not, you know, it's not unheard of. I actually, I once interviewed Hayden Panetteer in Nashville and she was living on a futon in someone's attic, waiting for Nashville to get renewed, which it did forever. Who's home was that, like a friend. A friend?

Not a famous person, just. Right. But like, was it like kind of like adding her, was she like adding herself to someone else's family? Because that's kind of what happened with Ben Winston. Yes, in my understanding of it. Oh, interesting. And I visited the home and yes. Maybe she's prone to it then.

It was very lovely. But anyway. So I guess people do this when they, if you're traveling so much also and you kind of don't have a set home and a set life, there must be something attractive about a sense of home, even if it's somebody else's. Sure. And I guess an attic and a mattress is worth it. But I would like to read you a section from this section.

Okay, please do. Okay, so this is Ben Winston, his close friend, who also works on the James Corden show. He's a producing partner for James Cordenin. And Ben Winston is reminiscing about when Harry was living in his attic. So we had this joke, Mary, his wife, and I would like to see the girls. that you would come back with to the house.

That was always what we enjoyed because we'd be in bed like an old couple. We'd have our spot cream on our faces and we'd blah, blah, blah, whatever. The stairwell was right outside our door, so we'd wait to see if Harry was coming home alone or with people. I was alone, note Stiles.

I was scared of Mary. And then Winston interjects again. He wasn't always alone, but it's exciting seeing the array of A-listers that would come up and sleep in the attic. Okay, all right, all right. I don't believe Harry is pulling any A-listers. Okay, well, that is a different conversation.

We can start, we can go to that, but I would like to start with, if Harry Stiles came up to you and said, Juliet, would you like to come back to my mattress in the attic? I think I might be into that. I'm sorry. I'm trying. I know. I'm working through it, too. But it's just like the attic of, if you know that married couple is already there, it would be mortified.

I guess at 24 I totally would have. Also, he was younger. He was like 20 for this, 19. Yeah, 20-year-olds do dumb shit. Yeah. That's so mortifying, though. Imagine the next morning, just crawling out of someone's attic that is so weird,

even if there's a separate entrance. He was like a teen for this. So One Direction was formed in 2010 or 11. So he was 16 when it started. And, like, he moved into Ben Winston's home, like, when he was 18, basically. Like, he was really young. Kind of just a pro tip to all listeners out there. try not to take someone back to an attic.

Like, try re-charter, even if you're Harry Styles. That's a real do-it-for-the-story situation, if you're the person that Harry Styles is bringing home. Sure, absolutely. I don't know why I'm fronting. We would all go to Harry Styles' attic, but it's like... And you'd be like, oh my God, he was staying in an attic. Seriously, an attic.

That's how it would go. And it would be a great story for your friends. Again, I'm blushing. I really honestly... Yeah, you're very uncomfortable. This is funny. I'm uncomfortable. I'm just very vulnerable right now.

I'm sharing something that means a lot to me. I was always more going to continue to be until I saw horrible pictures this week of his fashion choices, a Liam girl. I don't understand that. I just don't understand. I don't know. Just always liked him more. When Harry Styles is in the frame, I cannot look away.

He's incredibly charming. But I don't know. I just don't take him seriously. It's like I'm really excited about Dunkirk, but I don't think he's going to be good in it. That's just why are you going to hate? I don't know. I'm just hedging my expectations, I guess.

I support him, though. I like the new song a lot. Yeah, it's nice. It's a little long for my... As Amanda's note always, it's a little long. But I enjoyed the SNL performances. Wait, hold on. We need to go back to the attic.

Okay, sorry, back to the attic. It was exciting seeing the array of A-listers that would come up and sleep in the attic. Juliet, you had a hot take. Please go. I don't believe he was any A-listers at this age. Okay. I don't.

Or now, to be honest. So you don't believe in any of the documented... Kendall? Yeah. No. No. No way. Okay.

Absolutely not, because these are the places they were photographed. West Hollywood and a range rover. I wish you guys could see the look on Juliet's face right now. It is peak skeptical. No, it's a Runyon Canyon. At a hike. Okay, oh yeah, that's bullshit. I think like at Craggs, also in West Hollywood.

Oh, right. These are places you go to be photographed. This is not natural. It's true. She went to like his X-Factor performance. Yeah. Like just no, there's just no way. Yeah.

I have another take about Harry, by the way. Oh, boy. Related to his. Okay. Just remember that I would like to have a nice thing before you keep talking. I actually relate to him in this, which is as a child when I was at summer camp, I used to hang out in the office. I just liked to know what was up and going on. And I just think Harry likes adults. Like I think that one of the problems in him in one direction is he's like actually not that interested in his peers.

Like he's a lot more interested in learning. Like he was saying he loves, this is his greatest lesson being in this band and learning about music. Yeah. I just feel like he relates better to adults. and also I've seen the One Direction documentaries and he is really the happiest when he goes back and sees his former teachers and goes to the bakery.

That's very charming. Yeah, it's very cute. Or when they're out on a random boat for no reason. Yeah, that too. Yeah. Like he likes adults. I find that charming. I think he's like inquisitive.

I just think he's... I agree with all of that. Just not that deep. It should be said that he has asked about his intense teenage following in this article and is pitch perfect, nothing but lovely. He says the teenage girls, when they like you.

Let's just read it. They just, okay. You want to do it? Yeah, it's really incredible. Hold on. I'll pull it up. Okay. I got it.

Okay, so Harry's explaining how he feels about his fan base. Here we go. Asked if he spends pressure-filled evenings worried about proving credibility to an older crowd, styles grows animated. Who says to say that young girls who like pop music, short for popular, right, have worst musical taste than the 30-year-old hipster guy. That's not up to you to say. Music is something that's always changing.

There's no goalposts. Young girls like the Beatles. You're going to tell me they're not serious? How can you say young girls don't get it? They're our future. Our future doctors, lawyers, mothers, presidents. They kind of keep the world going, teenage girl fans. They don't lie.

If they like you, they're there. They don't act too cool. They like you and they tell you which is sick. Harry Stiles. This is what a feminist looks like. I mean, it's incredible. I will say he's very. supports them, but doesn't embrace them.

He just says they're not wrong. He's not like, these are my people. They know what's right. Well, they're not his people. They're teenage girls. It would be a little creepy at this point. He's aged out. So I'm certain that he gave this quote before Hillary Clinton lost the election.

That was the cool time to be saying women could be presidents. You know what? We can still say it. It's true. That's our small contribution to the world. It's pretty amazing. Harry's just like, I don't know, he seems fairly real. Yeah, I have two more things I want to ask you about.

Right. Okay, so obviously they talk about Taylor Swift, which you do not believe was a real relationship. Of course not. Once again, let's talk about where they were photographed in Central Park, walking on, like, the broadest of thoroughfares through Central Park. Sure. I don't think they were ever seen together outside of the city of New York. Oh, maybe London like once. They did karaoke that time after I saw them at the jingle ball, right? Yes, that was in New York. She did go to his hometown, but again, that was photographed. And there's actually not many pictures of Harry or really any of them in. like their rural England homes. Also, there's like a 10% chance that she's just like going to random British towns and being like, who lives here? Totally.

Anyway, he is asked about it by Cameron Crow. Specifically about out of the woods and style, which are pretty much totally considered to be about Harry Styles. Right. It's literally called style, just FYI. Here he goes. I mean, I don't know if they're about me or not, he says. This is after he like went to the bathroom to try to avoid the question.

I don't know if they're about me or not, but the issue is, she's so good. They're bloody everywhere. He smiles. I write from my experiences. Everyone does that. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And then this is boring. And then so they ask if he wants to say anything specifically to Swift.

And then he goes, maybe this is where you write down that I left. He laughs and looks off. I don't know. He finally says certain things don't work out. There's a lot of things that can be right and it's still wrong. And writing songs about stuff like that, I like tipping a hat to this time together. You're celebrating the fact it was powerful and made you feel something rather than this didn't work out and that's bad. And if you run into that person, maybe it's awkward, maybe you have to get drunk, but you shared something.

Meeting someone new, sharing those experiences, it's the best shit ever. So thank you. Literally, he's on the record just thanking Taylor Swift for being a dick. What a legend. He's a legend. It's so good. That is a very well-crafted response. That's how you do it.

I'm impressed by it. I think they definitely shared, like, a time together. I don't think they were, like, I just think it was very promotional. So I don't think it was ever like, oh, my God, let's, we're in a, it was no Jenny Slate, Chris Evans. Like, oh, we've happened to meet, and now we're having a toured love affair. It was more like, oh, we've happened to meet. This could work out for us. Right.

There was no sexual chemistry in this. Do you think, why is he a serial publicity dater? Um, I will note he has not since he left one direction. Name one person he's been entangled with since he left one direction. There's none, none to come by. The Kendall stuff hasn't popped up? Um, I think they were like, they're like hanging out, but like not like photographed together. Interesting.

So I think it was a lot of the 1D press machine. Okay. Very simple. I mean, like, the thing that one D is I did a great job, like, seeming pure. But all the Zane stuff that like, he like left the band and everything, that since it was at the end of their time, it's kind of like brushed over. But like that, like, B-Ly's, like some real problems that never really saw the light of day, in my opinion. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Someone do truthers. Yeah. Truther at all times. Wait, I have one more question. Yeah, please. Okay. So the end is sort of weird because

the Harry Stiles goes to Jamaica to record his album, which, I mean, we're not going to parse that. But there is this one line. To wind down, Stiles and Rowland, the guitarist, being in a daily Netflix obsession with sugary romantic comedies. Love it. His styles declares himself an expert on Nicholas Sparks. Those are not romantic comedies, but it's fine. Whom he now calls Nikki Spee. Okay.

Top five, Harry Styles' top five romantic movies, go. The holiday, because Jude Law is in it. I just think he probably gravitated towards the Brits. Four weddings and a funeral. Okay. No, take that back. He's more of a nodding hill guy. Yeah, I don't think that he's, like, doing the most refined.

No. Definitely maybe. I bet that's up there with a younger Jen. Really good one. Yeah, Ryan Reynolds, like, speaks to people slightly younger than us. Yeah. Those are, I think, I'm going to feel comfortable with those three. Holiday, nodding hell because it's a classic.

Sure. He's English. Definitely maybe. He seems like a wedding singer guy to me. Yeah. Yeah. I forget about Adam Sandler. Yeah.

And I bet he likes, like, an apatow. Probably funny people. Probably the most depressing one. Okay. Yeah, those seem right. Thanks. Yeah. What do you think?

Any more forgetting here? I mean, if he's doing Nicholas Sparks, then you got to figure notebook is in there. Though, like, you could see him really having a thing for the Mandy Moore one. Oh, watch your member. Yeah, and really being into Mandy Moore. Totally. I was really into Shane West. God.

I also just, I like Mandy Moore as an actress, so I plan to watch all this as us just to catch up. You still haven't done that? No. Oh, wow. I was saving it for a special occasion. Well, one of the basketball season is over, most likely. Okay. Should we call our friend Kate Nibs?

Yes, let's do that. So Kate has an article to stay on the ringer about Nick Ritchie of the Dirty.com. She's going to tell us all about it. Hi, Kate. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Great.

We really enjoyed your story on the Ringer today about Nick Ritchie of the Dirty. Well, thank you. I enjoyed writing it, mainly because I got to go to a super nice golf course, which I don't normally do while I'm reporting. Yeah, so did you play golf with Nick Ritchie? Like, is he good at golf? I did not play golf with Nicarichie. I was a little worried that that would be requested, but we just sat and talked.

So it was a low-impact interview. Were there any country club beverages? Like an Arnold Palmer? Well, I did not partake, although I did get a Pepsi at the end of the interview. Yeah, that was all. Okay. So, Kate, can you briefly, everyone should go to the room. and read this article. But Kate, can you kind of give the short version here just so people

kind of can understand what we're talking about? Sure. So I wrote a piece about a website called the dirty.com, which was really popular around 2008 to like 2013. It was mainly a website that posted mean things about normal people. Like if you had a, you know, grudge against somebody you could write this man Nick Ritchie and tell him all the bad things they did and then he would post their photo and all the bad things that they did. And it was really popular with college kids for a while. It kind of like presage. It kind of like, what's that thing called? Yikyak, right? I was saying it's pre-Yikyak, but also like kind of like I guess it was sort of surround on the same time as the Gossip Girl books, but definitely before the TV show. Like it started

before all that. Gossip was actually 2007. We're on 10 years of Gossip Girl. just FYI guys. Wow. What a tie. Wow. Okay. Take it back. Anyway. Anniversary Content, T.K.

I feel like Nick Ritchie was definitely, he took inspiration from Gothic girl. They took inspiration from him. You know, they're both Josh Schwartz is from the OC, I think. So it's Nick Ritchie. And it also was sort of a precursor to websites like JuC Campus, which was like another slanderier college classmates' website that was really popular. But while he was sort of making a name for himself just blasting normal people, Nick Ritchie started getting tips about celebrities behaving badly.

So he ended up making it already into something bigger than it was originally intended to be because he would break celebrity news scandals. And he was actually the person that broke the Anthony Wiener Carlos Danger sexting scandal. And he was also the first person to post... images from Hulk Hogan sucks tape. So he like had a hand in this whole like Perez Hilton gawker world of gossip blogs in like 2010. It's an interesting era because it's, it is post Perez Hilton and Lainey and kind of the first wave of gossip bloggers. But he kind of jumps in before social media.

Right. gives everyone, because now if you want to say something, if you want to trash someone you know, you like have eight platforms with which to do that. Totally. Yeah, like sub-tweeting exists. Yeah, totally. It's like the primordial sub-tweet. I think he could have been really down with the Vanderpump Rules crew.

Like that just seems like. Oh, yeah. Nick Ritchie fodder, but they just go straight to Twitter. Like, they just Twitter fight with each other. Like, exactly. Which just kind of gets the crux of your piece, which is like what is, like, what is, the role of the dirty in like our current gossip climate. Yeah, because it's trying to basically,

I wouldn't be surprised if the dirty started hosting Vanderpump posts now because what he's trying to do is get into the whole reality star gossip blogging world as though Twitter didn't exist. That's why I think it's going to be hard for The Dirty to like properly relaunch because he was like ahead of his time with the crappy thing he did. but now that he's going into mainstream slugby newsbreaking, he's sort of behind the curve.

But he is breaking little random snippets of things. Like, if you go on the dirty now, you see a lot of, like, short, real housewives interviews. Like, he has reporters out there, like, calling us the various housewives

across the nation and, like, asking them what they think about stuff. It's just whether or not people care enough about that to go to his website versus consuming like celebrity entertainment news on social media. Right, right. Although I will say, Housewives love to talk to anyone, really. Like there's so many random blog.

There's like a whole Housewives blogosphere that's kept alive by Housewives like looking to spread a rumor or like expose one of their castmates or someone from a different show even. Like there's just a lot of it. Also, I think that Orange County is particularly good for him. Those women love to do that. I'm sure Nick Ritchie could be tight with Tamara Barney if you wanted to. That's not her last name anymore. She changed it. I can't remember.

Kate, the other kind of thread running through the piece that I wanted to ask you about because you had a front row seat to him talking about it, it does seem like some of this career transformation from, like, terrible dirty gossip monger to celebrity blogger is inspired, well, certainly by some legal battles, but also possibly, I don't want to say conscience, but some larger knowledge of the ramifications of the particular type of gossip that he was peddling in. I'm curious. Yeah. How sincere you thought that was. Yeah.

So I was really confused by how sincere he was because throughout our interview, he kept making sort of offhand references the fact that he was a sociopath without like flatly. saying I'm a sociopath. Like he kept being like, you know, I don't probably have emotion. I don't feel bad about anything. I don't have regret. But that seemed kind of insincere to me because he clearly

cared. So I was just thrown off by like his emotional register and I think it was mostly a cynical maneuver. Like he flatly admitted to me that the whole his announcement that he was inspired by Melania Trump's cyberbullying

campaign was not really an accurate depiction of why he decided to change. He wants, like, respectability in his community because he's a father. I think that's sincere. I think he loves his children. And I think he wants respectability so that he can get advertisers and sell the dirty to a major, like, media company. He told me that's what he wanted to do. But I don't think that I think he saw the, like, national consciousness

moving away from being okay with cyberbullying and is sort of going along with that. But I don't think, I think he would do whatever he needed to do to succeed. Yeah, I think that makes sense. It is kind of an interesting measure of how kind of general attitudes to gossip mongering have sort of fluctuated in the past 10 years. I don't think he's alone in this sort of opportunistic approach to what you cover as a media organization. Like there's definitely been a shift across many different websites

away from like the more scandalous, you know, you don't, like, six years ago it wasn't that big of a deal for a website to post like a photograph of a celebrity naked. And then in the past few years it's really become like not culturally acceptable at all. So it's definitely like a wider trend in how the news is reported. It is interesting. Like, also he, like, do you think that he, like, there's, like, also a change in his interest? Like, do you think that sort of at the end of the piece you get into how he kind of, like, chooses to support or, like, not take down, basically? It's kind of pointed out, like, political people.

And, like, do you think that if he was given, like, a political scandal, like, he wasn't the weiner situation, he would, like, delve into that again? Or is that kind of just, like, less interesting to him in this climate and, like, what his goals are? Well, so I want him to do that sort of work. I thought it was a good thing that he exposed Anthony Neiner. And one of the reasons I was still interested in the dirty, despite all the terrible things it did, was because it had a capacity to break news and expose powerful people doing hypocritical things.

But he basically flat out told me he will not report on scandals if they're involving Donald Trump, who he supports, or involving like other major Republican political figures. I think he would still go after a Democrat, but he's definitely motivated by like what's best for his people and his people are Republicans. And there's like a weird, some of his reporters are like openly like wearing MAGA hats and writing positive articles about Trump.

So I don't know if you would, I mean, I don't think you would report on a big juicy scandal unless it was, the opposing political party, which I'm sad about. I wish he would. It's true. It's like he sort of in changing his strategy and also like perhaps growing up has become much more conservative, both small C and big C. Oh yeah, definitely.

I mean, he was wearing a polo shirt and like singing the praises of the golf club community, which was beautiful. I will readily admit I was impressed by their bathroom facilities and their views. and how well manicured the lawns were. So, I mean, I think he, yeah, he loves that whole lifestyle and wouldn't want to do anything to get himself kicked out of it. So, Kate, I have a slightly broader question for you, which is a recurring jam session question. Since you've spent a lot of time investigating the gossip industry as it exists in 2017, who do you trust for your celebrity gossip now? What are you reading and what do you think maybe not even valid, but the most valuable sources are?

I mean, rainy gossip, I would say is the gossip blog that I most trust. But I generally am not inclined to believe stuff unless I like see it on social media. Like today, the Serena Williams pregnancy thing, like we found that out through her. Right. So, follow up question. So, and we're going to talk more about this later. but for those who were not aware of Serena Williams, Snapchatted a selfie of herself with a caption that said 20 weeks,

and then she immediately deleted it. And there has been kind of no comment from her camp yet. I'm waiting. I have my Twitter open in case something changes. But even that is interesting. There's not a ton of clarity about it comes from her, but we still don't absolutely know what's going on. I know, but would you trust a random gossip blog

that claimed to know what was going on? I'm like, I don't know. I feel like there's not really been a super solid, reliable. I mean, I guess I trust TMZ most of the time, but they do get stuff wrong. I was going to get stuff right, but they get so many things fed to them. Like, it's like very biased, which like everything is. But like in particular, they have like agreements and they sort of like people go to them and they pay. So there's, it's like less is sort of like, it's not like journalism, which is, which is okay.

It's gossip. Yeah. But it's, but it's not like a cute. It's not, yeah, it's not like a pure pursuit of like a democratic space where everyone's at risk. Right. Well, I was going to say that I would trust if she released a statement to people, which is not really journalism either. It's just publicity that's sold in the magazine aisle. Right. But for some reason, I still invest in a gatekeeper, which is possibly foolish. I don't think it's foolish, but I don't think it's necessarily more trustworthy than TMZ somehow like digging up her medical record. It's definitely more morally sound, but as far as believability, I don't know.

Do you guys have any go-to gossip websites that you check that I'm unaware of? Because I love to get some more on my R-A. No, I think I... Blind gossip. Yeah, blind gossip is useful and we triangulate TMZ and people in us weekly and Twitter as much. as anyone else. But, Keith, there's one thing that you just said, and then we'll let you go, but you brought up the idea of what is morally more trustworthy, or maybe not trustworthy, but sound in these situations. And that is a theme running throughout this piece. And I'm curious

whether you had any takeaways about a responsible way to consume celebrity gossip, possibly? I wish I did, because then I'd probably feel better about the amount of celebrity guess I consume. Yeah. Likewise. I think when stuff is stolen, you know, like when nude pictures are released, you know, there's, I don't know I think there's an ethical way to consume those images

and I don't think there's any need to. But at the same time, that doesn't mean they're not use for these just because they feature nudity, like with the Anthony Leoneers thing. I think there's a way of reporting on like powerful people's hypocrisy that is in the public interest. but it just doesn't necessarily mean you have to see exactly what they have going on in their bodies. I don't know.

I don't know. You sound so vexed by it. It's okay. Yeah, I mean, I think we talk about that. I am a little vexed. We'll get there. Yeah. It's confusing.

And it does seem to require a certain amount of people making good choices, which it's hard to trust people to make good choices, whether it's journalists or the people leaking it. And I think you're right, Kate. It's kind of a no-it when you see it situation. It's true. Got to have a strong bullshit detector. It's definitely shifting because, you know, like, I don't think it was that frowned upon when, like, the Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian sex tapes came out. People were watching them and not feeling that bad about it. But today, if something similar happened, I don't know if the reaction would be the same.

So I think, like, the cultural mores are shifting a little bit. And I'm going to try to never watch a celebrity sex tape again. And we'll call you that. Yeah. I think, you know what, that's a good takeaway for everyone. Good rule to live by. Yeah. Okay.

I support it. Thanks so much for calling in, Kate. We'll talk to you soon. All right. Bye guys. Thank you, Kate. Bye. Okay.

So I'm really glad Kate brought up Serena. Because that's our first DTR of the week, Serena Williams and her own body, which is really none of our business. But today we have to discuss it because if folks, from her Snapchat surfaced and it's of her perhaps showing a baby belly

and it has the caption 20 weeks. Yeah, so it showed up on her Snapchat unannounced. It was quickly deleted. And the only, the other thing that was deleted was that the WTA, the Tennis Association, had tweeted congratulations

and then they also deleted it. So there's been some speculation that Serena called and was like, that's not happening, take that down. I think it's probably more that they don't want to get in trouble commenting on the health developments of someone who is in their association. Yeah, so they had to take it down. It's weird. They have not, none of her publicists have not responded for comment as of recording this.

So we don't totally know what's going on. That said, if it is true, It is extremely exciting. Extremely exciting. I mean, I think my theory is that we both talked about this, not just my theory, but it's that she didn't mean to put it on public Snapchat. Yeah, she went to send to someone not add to her story. Right. And it kind of wasn't ready to make the announcement.

But everyone saw it, got super excited, is losing their minds. Luckily means that she won the Australian Open while pregnant. Which is incredible. Incredible. I can't. I expect that when I'm pregnant, I will use it as an excuse. to, like, fail at everything and do nothing. So I can't believe she won a major tennis tournament.

Yeah. So here are my thoughts. I hope that whatever Serena Williams wants public is public. And I hope that Serena Williams is healthy and happy. Those are my wishes for her. If it turns out that she's actually pregnant, I am elated. Congratulations to them. She deserves it.

She's my number one. Totally. That's going to be a really awesome baby. Yellow is a great color on her. Yeah. Per of the picture. Yeah. Snapchat, man.

I'm glad I don't really use it. Seems like just too many Prattfalls. Is that the term? Pitfalls? Pitfalls. Yeah, but Pratt falls too, probably. I mean, that definitely seems like it could happen.

Yeah, it's definitely, it is not designed for... Old people. Yeah. It's entirely bewildering and befuddling. Yeah. I don't really have any friends that use that often. I don't either. It's not really where my network is.

Okay. So it's also, it just seems like athletes more than anyone else have issues with it. Serena's, I do follow. Oh, Serena on Snapchat. It's a great follow. She's very into it. Loves the filters. Yeah.

Maybe I should add her. Well, I think we all are going to now. I know. She probably won't use it again. She's probably going to quit. Yeah. It's probably going to be deleted from her phone. Anyway, best wishes to Serena Williams in whatever form they take.

Whatever Serena wants is what I want. Me too. Okay. Next, D.T.R. Things are really heating up across the pond, and it yield England. I'm calling it now. Okay. Let's hear it.

Prince Harry and Megan Mark. girl are going to get married. They definitely are. They're definitely getting married. She got the invite to Pippa's wedding. She got the invite to Pippa's wedding and she also shut down her lifestyle blog. Yeah, that's a big one. So caveat to the Pippa wedding. Yes. She's not invited to the ceremony. Actually, it's not true. She's not going to the ceremony. She's just going to the reception. Right. So I read some British etiquette this morning. Yes. That said, it's very unlikely she would have been uninvited from the ceremony if she got the reception nod. So it's more likely that she couldn't make it. Or that she's not wanting to upstage.

Right. Which is I think. I don't think she would, to be honest. I think Pippa Middleton is more famous than Megan Markle. I actually do think in this case, the fact that she is there and what it signals for her relationship with Harry would upstage the fact that, like, Pippa, the sister is having a country wedding. Like, that's nice, but who really cares? The Middletons are very respectful of not upstaging a wedding. It just seems like it comes up a lot in relation to Kate and Pippa's social calendars.

Especially Kate's. Yeah. She's not going to be in the wedding. a reading because she doesn't want to upstage it. Amazing. Yeah. But the kids will be in it. They're cute.

They're real cute. They're very cute. They're very cute. She's wearing a striped sweater. taking this very literally as if, like, you have to have signed the wedding license or else you don't get married. My understanding of no ring, no ring has always been, like, you can't ask the girl you met or the guy you met in a bar. Right. It's not a standing plus one. It has to be an established relationship. Exactly. Cohabitation, et cetera. I think, like, minimum nine months

of dating is my personal philosophy. Interesting. Yeah. Although I have a lot of friends who are like just ask for a plus one, which I think is very ballsy inappropriate. I had a couple of friends. I had a couple of friends who brought a plus one without letting me know. Well, like, what do you do for the seating? Oh, I mean, we had some extra, like, I mean, it was fine. It was really annoying, but whatever. Very bizarre. But I don't care because I, you know, I'm not that, I didn't want to be that person. No ring? No problem. No ring, no problem. Anyway, that's what we say on jam session. That said, it is still significant that she's going. But the lifestyle blog, shutting that down. Yes.

Is the moment I was like, oh, this is real and they're probably getting married. When do you think they'll get engaged? So this is interesting, right? And without being tacky or disrespectful, there was an article in The Guardian recently. There was very good. It was a fantastic long read about the preparations that are being made for Queen Elizabeth's death because it will obviously be a huge state event

and royal protocol is very detailed and crazy. And so people have been preparing for some time She's about to turn 91. So, you know. Sure. She's no spring chicken. Exactly. I have been thinking a lot about that event in relationship to this wedding.

Okay. Do you think it's... Because marrying a non-British person is still... It's a big deal. Yeah. And she's divorced. Exactly. So I think it would be much easier if it's like a new generation and a modern, you know,

kind of all of the flunkies and the royal people who you saw in season one of the crown like screwing up Margaret's life will just kind of vanish. They won't vanish, but they will not have the power that they did. And I think it'll be much easier to get it past old people, which is kind of what the monarchy still is at this point. Right. But, you know, on the flip side, can't wait around forever. No.

So I feel like the timing would be very interesting. Me too. I think it's soon. That's my guess. Interesting. Yeah. I think suits only is one more season. to go. Right, and then she'll move there.

She's kind of... Yeah, she's based in Toronto right now. Yeah. Lots of picks of her walking on the streets of Toronto. Yeah, that's true. You can tell she wasn't ready for this because she gets photographed a lot. Oh, yeah. Like going to and from yoga, her mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, it's not... This isn't a lifestyle she's accustomed to.

I love Meg. I'm happy for her. This is great. I'm very excited. I just feel like a personal connection to her since I love suits. So... Okay. Last one thing can't stop thinking about. Mine's sad. so I'll go first. Okay.

And then you can do yours, which hopefully will not be sad. Okay. I'm very upset about Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner. Just very upset. That's sad. I know. I got to tell you, you had some warning.

I know. I just like, I just thought, you know, there's been almost two years since the nanny. Right. I just thought they weathered the storm. He was still living in the guest house on the same property. He seemed like he was getting, I don't know, I just seemed like there's possible reconciliation.

I'm just really upset. I don't know why. I don't want everyone. to be happy and if they're not happy, they should find their happiness. But I just bummed. They were making some demonstrations of family loyalty in a way that I understand. Might have given you hope. Sure.

Yeah, you know, listen, I hope I wish the best for all of them. Me too. That's a nice way of putting it. But I just want to say, I'm still thinking about it. I'm sorry. They are upset. Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.

All right, your turn. Your boy, Chris Evans, back in the news. Oh, dear. There was a big one last week. It was an L? Yes, it was the back page of Belle where Mickey Rapkin always does

Q&As with dudes. I had to come into your office to be in a physical space with you while we talked about this because I just can't believe it's still going on. Some quotes. He's asked, you're at that age where you're going to a lot of birthday parties for your friends, kids.

How does that feel? Okay. I feel deeply connected to my inner child. Like, you got to stop my kick. I'm not going to get through this. Keep going. When I see a bounce house and those little cups of ice cream, I'm like, shit, where's mine? I'm not ashamed of the parts of my youth that I'm still connected to, whether it's cartoons

or Disney World or Christmas time. I think there are a real representation of my true self before the world had its impact on me. I just... It's amazing. The whole thing is worth a read. Please look it up. It confirms pretty much everything that I thought about, Sevens. I know. I actually was like, wow, I need to revise my stance on him. I was like too generous and

like gave him too much credit. I was like, okay, this is so cool. He seems like a nice man. How about that? Yeah. Okay. All right. Shout out to him. Thanks again to Kate Nives for listening. Thanks to Harry Styles for existing. And thanks to you, Amanda, for being a great jam session partner. Same to you, Juliet. Thanks, thanks every. Thank you. Have a great week, guys.