The Press Box - 'More Life' Emergency Pod (Ep. 286)

Episode Date: March 22, 2017

The Ringer's Micah Peters, Hannah Giorgis, and Justin Charity discuss Drake's latest project, 'More Life,' and whether it's an album (00:30), grime songs (06:00), and their least favorite track (11:00). Then, The Ringer's Rob Harvilla calls in to talk about the song "Fake Love" (18:00), Drake the underdog (25:00), and "tough guy" Drake (26:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's going down? This is Micah Peters. I'm a staff writer with The Ringer, and I'm here with special projects editor Hannah Georges. Hello, hello. And we are here also with Justin Charity, who is also a staff writer at the Ringer.

How are y'all doing today? Great, man. I'm alive. I'm a deep. We might be deep on this podcast. Deep on this podcast. Well, we're here today to talk about more life, which is Drake's newest album, excuse me, playlist.

Oh, here we go. And I think that the first thing we need to discuss is, what is this? Is it an album or is it a playlist? Or is it a mixtape? Or is it just like, you know, like a freely dissociated, you know, collection of moods? Oh, no. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I mean, normally you would call a freely, you know, dissociated,

association of moods of album. I mean, it's an album, right? Like, if anything, people, you know, Drake marketing this more life package of 22 songs as a playlist feels kind of precious, honestly, and kind of pretentious, which is, like, those are two hallmark qualities of Drake and his music

are precious and pretentious, but, yeah, it's just confounding otherwise. Like, if you're, you know, if you're just like a consumer and you're like, look, I want to hear some music, no one's trying to hear, like, well, I made this music for you, but it's a playlist. Like what? No.

It's an album. I mean, like, I would like... I mean, it's just kind of... I think the first album that I saw that it was going to be called a playlist and not an album, I immediately started thinking about say anything. Like Drake's standing up outside of Jay-Z's, like, window, like holding a boombox over his head. Jay, you magnificent bastard, I read your book! I don't know.

My first thought when I heard the... he was calling it a playlist was that views had him really shook, you know, and sort of the response to views had him shook, and he didn't want to deal with that kind of, that pressure, all the sort of hype he built around himself during views. So he's like, um, this whole thing, like, it's just some songs. Don't worry about it. It's a playlist. It's not an album. But why... But I have a question. Right. No, and that sounds like the comparisons to views feel obvious, right? But I don't know. Do those feel natural to you, Charity? I mean, they do. I mean, well, okay, So first of all, I agree with you.

Wait, what? Say it again? Or fruitful. Do they feel like a generative place to be thinking about this playlist, album, mixtape, et cetera? Do you have to consider it separately? I mean, or do you benefit from considering it separately? Or, I mean, do you need to more it in the expectations that you had before views came out? And then more life comes out and it's actually what views are supposed to be. Right. I mean, I agree with Hannah that, like, you know, views is successful, right?

Like, it's a very, very successful album in a commercial sense. But it is probably the easiest Drake album to criticize for a lot of reasons related to self-indulgent. The question I have, though, is instead of just being like, well, I'm going to retreat behind the idea that this isn't an album, it's a playlist, man. Why didn't he just do what he had been doing, which is releasing things without warning? Because to me, that seems like it would have been a more sensible way to release this with sort of easier expectations if he had just dropped it out of nowhere. But instead, he promoted, he teased the album late last year, right? And then he set a release date and then he ducked the release date a bunch of time. And I feel like that sort of whatever he got with easing the expectations by calling it a playlist instead of an album, he sort of actually.

he sort of acted against by setting a release date and missing it a bunch of time. Right, but this is Drake we're talking about, right? So he's never going to fully disappear into the shadows and do something low-key. Like, not now, at least. Like, this is post views Drake who still wants attention. Like, he doesn't want you to forget he existed, which I feel like he and sort of future grapple have been grappling with in this interesting way that's like, oh, all these youngians are coming out and grabbing y'all's attention.

Like, don't forget about me. I'm still here. no that's fair well when you okay so when you one of you said that this is what views was supposed to be in a sense what do you guys mean by that I think so much as you agree with that that that was me by the way I was talking about uh I don't know it's just that like views are supposed to be I mean I was talking to Zainlo about it he's just like I want to go from the winter to the spring to the summer and back to the winter. Like, he had, like, all these conceptual things for the album, and he was saying that it was

going to be this huge amalgamations of sounds, and it was supposed to work together in this certain way. And it turned out to be just very maudlin and, like, life joyless. And, I mean, like, there's, obviously, there's that eight song playlist that everybody has on their Spotify or iTunes or whatever it is that you subscribe to. Right. Out of 19. Yeah.

You know. So, yeah, I felt like a bloated. record and all of the all of the views were inward yeah and you'll pardon that I think that like there was I mean like this this one more live I mean like I was listening to it for two hours

and well I felt like I was listening to it for two hours and I was only halfway through it and I mean like it does like it drags a little bit but at the same time there aren't a whole lot of songs on the album that I don't like sure

of course on the flip side for you charity there are some grime records on the album and I just need to know how you feel about that because I feel like you have this religious objection to

you know double time over very sparse and kind of drum and bass beats oh right well okay I let's that call it a religious objection I my only objection is that there may be six good grime songs right and lucky for drinks two of them

two of them were out of this album. You know, it's weird. It's weird. As much as, like, Grime is maybe my least favorite thing that Drake has ever been into, I do appreciate that he's incorporating Grime into an album that's otherwise, like, a lot of other Drake albums, very R&B. Because, like, the main thing I have trouble with this Grime is that it sounds like... It sounds like somebody wrestling an electronic trumpet, a lot of Grime music.

And so this feels... much smoother than that. And, you know, I just appreciate it. You know, this album is eclectic in ways that, again, I think views was also trying to be eclectic, but was mostly just sort of cheesy and obnoxious.

Whereas, like, here, Drake is, Drake would be fail-out crudy so bad? I don't know. It's a very strange impulse, but it also makes sense, right? Like, Drake is this dude who has a very, unlike a lot of rappers, honestly, he has a very global sense of the musical world.

world and I just, yeah, I listen to this album and it's too long, but it's too long for the right reason. Too long because he's trying to incorporate so many different threads of contemporary black music. And even old black music, it was a random Earthwind and Fire song on here. Yeah, that did glow. At the end of glow. But he's trying to incorporate so many threads of black music. And so that's, you know, on that tip, it's one of the few times that I look at Drake being self-indulge it and think. Do you think it feels authentic?

Like the ways in which he threads together those different kinds of music? I mean, I think it's awkward sometimes. You know, so far I've seen a lot of people talk about this album with a sense of like pointing out that Drake going through different musical phases sometimes seems inauthentic. And I don't always, I don't know, I sort of always look at it as Drake is a pop star. It's always going to be from a. a big distance. But a lot of the album does feel natural to me. Like, Passion Fruit, you know, all of these songs where he's going for something that is not

very North American, certainly not very Canadian, at least in the popular conception of what Canada is. Like, it feels as natural as you're going to get. What is the popular conception of Canada? It's cold and ice and, I don't know, weird accents and Fargo, even though that's not in Canada. I don't know. But the point stands. The point stands.

The point stands. Stay in sitting next to the radiator, watching reruns the top boy, do you think? Oh, here we go. Listen. I think you're pointing this in the Graham commentary. I'm just saying. American exceptionalism here, y'all.

Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Listen. This is a very Trumpian combo. No, but like, I don't. I think it's as naturalistic as you're going to get from a top 40 musician. And I always just think of it. I'm always judging Drake against that metric of like he's a top 40 musician. I'm not expecting him to like go deep cover and like reinvent himself as a dancehall artist for real or as a grind rapper for real.

It would be hilarious if he did on some Jamie Kennedy tip. No, I really. I really and truly hope he never does that. Yeah. I think I tend to agree with you on that front. And I think for my part, at least as someone who's kind of pretty sensitive to the stuff and listens to like both a lot of African music and a lot of dancehall, it feels like on this playlist, album, mixtape, whatever, that he's at least, you know, crediting artists in a way that didn't feel quite kosher on views.

I think that, you know, like gigs and like... Chief among them. Genuinely. Sorry, Chief among them, I just had to interject with this, that he left Popcon off of, like, the final album cut of controller. Honestly, the greatest injustice of 2016. Like, I feel comfortable saying that. Yeah.

What do you think was a shift? What's the reason that, like, what do you think accounts for that disparity between views and sense of creative credit versus more life's sense of creative credit? Because I can't really figure it out. I feel like it had to do with that the spirit of having like a playlist versus an album. I mean, if you're having like a complete body of worth that you're going to put your name on and, you know, like instead of saying that this is a playlist by October firm, then I think that there's a more collaborative spirit behind that, I guess.

And there's no illusions about, hey, I'd use 39 people in this song, hear all of their names. I'm going to invite them all to OVOFest. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I also think that, like, we know for a, you know, for a fact that Drake consumes a lot of media and he consumes a lot of media about himself. So I think it would be sort of remiss to not note that he probably noted some of the really harsh criticism about that. He got a fair amount after views. I do think that that is a very important thing that Drake and Donald Trump have in common,

and I'm glad that you are supposed to that. I'm not happy. happy someone pointed it out and said it. I never want to hear that sentence again in my life. Carry on. That was unconscionable. Anyway, what was your favorite song in the album charity? 4422.

You know what that's funny? You know what that's funny, Micah? Because Drake's not on it. Because it's a sample song. It's a random Sample song on a Drake album. On a Drake playlist. Yeah. So it makes sense.

I mean, like, we can just go ahead and be honest with ourselves. It's a bald-faced streaming hustle. I mean, like, it's over 30 seconds, you know, so it still counts as a song, but you name it an interlude and just say that, you know, it's a skeptist elude. This is 4422. And, I mean, like, that streaming money has to pass through you first. Right. Impressive. 4422 was the first moment when I stopped sort of in my tracks listening to More Life and kind of realize that this was something that I would.

was going to sit with for a while and not just something that would be passion fruit on loop for me. It was like that seeded like Dr. Strange from the Asian one like punches Steven Strange in the chest and then like his ghost like floats out of the back of his body. That's what happened like at the

first time I listened to 4422 I think. I'm not going to lie, Mikey. You just use a lot of imagery and I'm overwhelmed by a lot of it but that sounds right. That sounds right to me, I guess. Good. I'm glad that we could you know,

find some... I'm glad that we agree on something. Charity, what song are you really, really not rocking with? I mean, I'm still not rocking with fake love, but like, let's pick a song that was not released already. Dang.

What song I'm not rocking with? Let's see. It's tough, right? It's tough. Yeah, it's actually surprisingly tough. I will say that I just don't find Portland as memorable as the rest of the internet seems to find that

I can't believe... As you know. As you know, I agree. Y'all got to explain this to me. Okay, Charity, you want to take it away? I mean, I feel like Mike is obliged to explain. He's the Portland's... I can't explain the evaporation of a song from my memory.

You know what I mean? It's a paradox, what you're asking. I know it has a recorder on it. Somebody's playing a recorder. It has Quavo rapping well. but like which song doesn't have Cuevo rapping well these days? You know what I mean?

I actually disagree with that statement. I don't like it as a Cuevo song. Partly because I know. I know. Cuevo, as some people may know, is the love of my life. We're engaged to be married. It's undercover a little bit, but not now.

Now y'all know. But I don't like him on this song. The Ike turned out with the left hand line really fucked me up. I did not like that. That was pretty bad. And Cuevo said some dicey things before, but that just kind of made me stop at my tracks and not in a cute way, not in a way that had me, like, bopping.

And the song in general sounds like a slightly low-budget mask-off. So... Yeah. Sorry. I think it's just like... I think the thing that I appreciate most is just the fact that, like, Cuevo's rapping, never let a nigger Roger wave, like, on a song with both Drake and Travis Scott.

Like, which is just pulling up. That's, like, pointing to the logo. at half court and then just pulling up and swishing the three from there. Right. Listen, it's beautiful. I love that line.

I wanted to like Portland so much more than I actually did. And I think it took me a couple of listens to realize, actually, no, I don't rock with this. But, man, what could have been? What could have been? Oh, man.

I'm sorry, I'm not laughing about that. I'm laughing about the fact that like every line in there could be a line about either the song that are about either of the artists that are also on the song with them, like, young the guy, invented you. Like, you could be talking to Travis.

Like, it's crazy. But, yeah, I mean, like, I definitely understand the moral quandary of the first line of his verse. It's pretty tough. Right, and he doesn't even ease you in. Like, it just comes out of nowhere, and you're like, oh, we didn't have to do that. There are other ways to get that sentiment across.

But you know what? You live, you learn Cuevo is, still growing. You know, instead of I. Turner with the left hand, Kyle Lowry, you know? Sure. That would have also worked. This is a great case for editors. And it's weird because, like, I really want to, you know,

when we interview rappers, I really want to make the case to them that, like, editors generally are good people and they're very helpful. But I listen to a lot. I mean, I listen to rap since I was literally a child. And it's just, like, editors, man, like, they're typos and classic rap verses. They're like really ill-advised things And you've got to get editors working in rap music That's the real

You know and there's whole songs that shouldn't have existed You know Oh yeah for sure That's a great point Charity And I'm going to take it as a personal compliment Thank you Of course, of course Well

Justin Charity Thank you for joining us On the special edition of the Channel 33 podcast About more life Thanks for having me Of course I'm still, you know, like, we're going to have a very long and very tedious off-air discussion about grime music later on. That's good because grime is pretty tedious music, man.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Don't be mad when I catch you in the office with a musket. Uncle and Michael. All right, bye guys. Later, dude. Thanks again to Justin Charity for calling in. He has an article in the ringer right now, so go check. that out. But before we get to

Rob Harvilla, here's a little bit of passion fruit, which sounds like a sonic pinocalada. All right. That was an interesting conversation with Justin Charity, staff writer at the ringer. He also has a piece up on More Life. And another staff writer that

has a piece up of War Life right now is Rob Harvilla, who's on the other line. How you doing today, man? I'm excellent. My God. I'm very excellent. Carpet, wall-to-wall, great coverage. Going all out on this. It's a group effort.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm trying to get to excellent. Not unlike a playlist. Yeah, not unlike a playlist. I mean, how do you feel like weird calling this a playlist, for starters, Rob? Yeah, I mean, I don't put too much stock in that one way or the other. You know, I had originally thought, didn't you say that this, I thought it was going to be more like cruel summer, like a compilation. type thing where like he was the host

but there were a lot of OVO guys there were a lot of tracks that he wasn't on that kind of thing like I was braced for not a Drake album that's what playlist sort of suggested to me but you know there's a couple moments here where he's not around but it's emphatically a Drake record and I feel like

the playlist thing is as much as anything like just a hedge for why he can make it you know 85 minutes long or all over long it is just you know I think what Drake has gotten really good that is he sort of mastered the jargon and the art of the streaming thing, you know, the way views was so dominant for so long and so much of that is attributable to, you know,

how I blame the impact on the end of it. You know, like I, I'm sure that the playlist thing is just some sort of gambit that helps him in terms of how many times this thing gets streamed the way it gets counted, you know, or he can just say that, you know, he's the first person ever to get X streams in a week with the playlist, for unquote, you know. I don't, I don't, I don't think, I don't think it changes the fundamental thing that this is Drake, you know, talking about his feeling, you know, for an hour plus again, and whatever he wants to call that, you know, I, I'm happy. Do you think fake love belongs on the playlist? You know, I, I went back and forth on that. It's the first time through, it definitely felt packed on the way hotline blinks was, you know, like, tonally, it's just a little different, it's just a little brighter.

you know, I've heard it on the radio a bunch of times. Like, I'm sort of undecided on that. What do you think? Like, do you think of the law? Well, I personally thought that, like, like you were saying before, about hotline bling, I mean, like, thematically doesn't fit. It feels like a Hail Mary at the end of views. And I think that fake love, I mean, is also kind of, like, the same deal,

but, like, at least it's not the very last song in the album. kind of like, you know, I'm peeing in the pool, but not peeing into the pool. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's incredible. That is a good thing. That is incredible. No, but I mean, like, I think it's, I mean, I don't know. Fake love is definitely corny, doesn't quite fit with everything else and not even in between since way back and ice melts, which is, fantastic.

But I mean, fake love is also like you're going to shout it, you know, three beers in, it doesn't matter. Like, it's still, it's still a fun song. Yeah. Right. And it doesn't feel as egregious as Hotline Bling did. And it also feels like I want to hear,

I want to hear fake love and Blum at the same party. I'm sorry. I need to hear them both together. And so I'm not mad at having them on the same playlist, album, mixtape, whatever. Yeah, that's a good way of thinking about it. I mean, also, like, the, am I. I mean, to your point about how overlong the playlist is, I mean, because I also,

I was telling Charity that I felt like I was listening to it for an entire day before I was halfway through it. They, like, it works because it feels fun, I guess. I mean, like, would you agree with that? It feels a heck of a lot more fun than views, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean, it's, it was, that's definitely the, my favorite part of it, the most relieving part of it. It's just, it's, The reason that Hotline Bling is such an anomaly on views is like, muse is so morose and so heavy feeling. And, you know, like you say, like it feels like it's, you know,

an hour plus transpiring over the course of 48 hours, you know, and hotline bling is just this weird sort of pure oxygen blast at the end. But, like, there's just, this is very long and languid and pretty melancholy in a lot of places. But it's the difference between, like, melancholy and, like, morose, like just totally depressed and dense and heavy, you know, More life is a lot brighter to me throughout. You know, and so I, you know, it feels like a very long time. I agree with you.

Like I was listening to the live ovio sound thing. And I was just like, how long is this thing? Like, I had that felt like at 3 in the morning at the time. It's not done. But it feels the same length. But it's just a lot more pleasant experience this time because he seems to be having a lot more fun this time. Yeah.

Do you feel like he's taking accountability in any way on this record, whether it's for views or kind of for himself in his various transgressions? I can't tell if he's taking accountability or he just sort of realized that people want him to take accountability and he's just making accountable type noises. You know, I think he's savvy enough to sort of sense. you know, a possible backlash of people turning against him or just a general feeling that, like, he's gone too far, you know, with the self-pity thing. And so there's a lot of moments on this record. Like, there's a track, is it right at the end where he says, like, I don't remember the lines, but it's like I was a really angry person when I wrote views. It was a thought of myself I'd never seen before. Like, he knows enough to say that.

You know, he knows enough to say it's close to the beginning, something like I'm going to forget the line again. And it's like, I have too much money to say, poor me. Like, he knows, he knows enough to know to say that. Whether or not he believes that is a different question. I sort of go back and forth on it. You know, I don't think he's an outright liar, but I do think that, you know, Drake's subject is always going to be Drake, you know, and his real true subject is going to be Drake's sadness, you know,

regardless of where he is and how far on top he is now. So I can't tell if he's really sincere, but he knows enough to fake sincerity, at least. And, you know, that's enough progress for me for now. Do you think Drake still thinks of himself as an underdog? That is a good question, because that's the thing, like, that's what Taylor Swift did for a long time. Like, long after Taylor Swift had come out on top, she was still sort of representing herself as the underdog. That Ed Sheehan record has a lot of. a lot of moments where, you know, he's not to bring Ed Sheeran into everything.

I just love talking about Ed Shearant, but I, you know, Ed Shearant still has, there is a commonality. You know, the only person who's on top and doesn't at least pretend that they're not on top is Kanye. You know, Kanye is the only person, I believe, when he says, like, I'm the greatest, you know, and there's nobody, you know, I'm on top of the world and I'm just staring down at everybody, you know, and I'm kissing at everybody's pool, simultaneously. Like everybody else What is it with y'all in Pulse?

Yeah, I'm sorry for introducing that. I'm keeping the image going. I'm trying, you know, we're trying to make this thematically concise, you know, and coherent. He wants to be the underdog, but at this point,

it's very, very hard. It's getting much, much harder to even try and convince himself that he's the underdog. And that doesn't mean he's not going to keep trying, but I do think that's going to get less and less convincing the more streaming records

of his own that he breaks So we were having We were having a discussion about Portland earlier What are What do you think about it like in a vacuum Before I tell you anything I mean I just appreciate

Fundamentally the other voices On this record You know I like some More than others You know But I I have mixed to negative feelings about Travis Scott. Like Travis Scott is one of those guys.

Like half the time I think it's Yom Thug, and then I realize that way through that it's Travis Scott, and I get like really mad. Yeah. And that didn't happen this time, you know. So he is more tolerable to be here than he is ordinarily. Generous, wow. It's not, yeah, it's not my favorite sort of collaborative track.

That would definitely be, you know, the two-chains young thug one, I think. But I do, it's pretty good. I enjoy also just the tough guy moment on this record in general, just because their tough guy Drake is always very, very, very funny to me. You know, and it's, you know, it was a little too much of that last time, but, like, it's 11 here, you know, the sadder, dance here stuff. And so I do appreciate when he gets all swollen. You know, and that's definitely one of the oldest bonus record where you can imagine him, you know, like doing bench presses while he's rapping.

And, you know, that's very amusing to me when Drake does that. He's using the bench press machine, not like the actual favorites. Plus his heart. Bless his heart, exactly. That actually reminds me one of the reasons, and I hadn't quite made this connection before, one of the reasons I think I like more life so much is that it reminds me of, like, summer 2015 Instagram. honey, Drake, which was one of my personal favorite Drake's.

It was a pretty good Drake. It was great. I was like, yes, yes, please. Sure. That's your trainer? Great. Congratulations. You know, and you can feel him sort of getting back into that loop again.

I want to show off a little bit. But I know probably deep down, maybe, that I'm still a dweeb. Like, you can kind of get a little bit of that coming through in more life. My favorite thing that people said about that arrow is that it looks like he was in a grand theft auto cut scene. Oh, he's like a... That was my favorite thing.

Like, if you go on Twitter, there are people who would just, like, have inset photos. It's probably a views, you know, and they're just like, this is a grand theft auto, like,

non-playable character, you know, and like, he's holding a bulls or whatever. And he gets killed in a shootout with the Jamaicans or whatever, but, like, it's, yeah,

cartoonish gangster Drake, and Instagram, Honey, Drake. There's a lot of overlap there. and they're both very appealing to me as well. Absolutely. Like, second, relatedly, like, second to my other favorite Drake, which is, like, resident hookah lounge, you know, Baron Drake.

Which I think also, like, More Life is a hookah lounge playlist. I don't care what anybody says, like, that is where I want to hear it. That is where it is going to be played. That is the demographic that, you know, aside from its mass appeal, that's a demographic I personally believe he made it for. but I don't know Who do you think the album I think

Who do you think the album Who do you think the album is this album best listen to? Right I mean I have to say summer You know I As a suburban father of two You know

I'm not going to be hanging out Very many Who's allowed just Or for that matter Or at the club Or at that matter You know I don't know

Any many barbecues But yeah I mean I just It feels very It feels very summery to me you know and so whatever you personally find yourself doing over the summer I think it will

price whether you are indoors or out of doors very democratic well he's a very democratic he is everything to everyone you know he is the king of all media I mean

sort of riffing on that a bit how do you feel about the way that he brings in you know different jobs genres, whether that's sort of like Afrobeat attempts or kind of, you know, his quote-unquote dance hall inflected. Right. And the introduction of crime and all that other stuff. Yeah.

You know, like you had to figure, given the success of one dance, the controller, that that's sort of the direction he would go in. You know, and it's an interesting idea that he's gone from sort of co-opting specific people, you know, whether that's party next door. and 21 Savage and such to now like colonizing entire like countries slash genres you know like it's interesting you know and I'm going to

imagine that you guys have a lot more experience with those genres than I do and so I'm most what I've been reading a lot about you know since I wrote my thing is the dance hall inflected stuff and just the way that there's a lot of specific influence on this record that are sort of

being misidentified by a lot of people are sort of being glombed together into one quote unquote sort of global thing and I just I you know

I relax the better way of putting it I am sort of using this as a way to sort of bone up on these things to try and separate them out a little bit you know like somebody said

this morning I agree like the thing that happens at the end of glim so just the last the last the last it's like 15, 20 seconds

of glim like it goes into some kind of Afro Afro beat thing, Afro pop thing, that's really, really cool to me. And so I'm definitely interested in reading people who are sort of breaking down and getting a little more granular as to like what genre is present on which track and how that all goes together. Like separating that out of my mind, I think it's going to make me appreciate this even

more. Yeah, absolutely. And I think allow for kind of a nuance in the conversation about, you know, power and what Does it mean that, you know, Drake is also part of the African diaspora? And so what do people, you know, what can travel across borders and how do you credit? And sort of those kinds of things feel sort of more nuance in a lot of media has had either the bandwidth or the desire to tap into, certainly. Yeah. I mean, does it feel craven to you like that stuff?

Do you feel like he's honoring these genres or is kind of co-opting them a little bit and, you know, all this is playing, you know, and that's the plot that's all this. record, like is that getting a little play acting or do you think he sort of immersed in it to the level, you know, where he could get away with it? Oh, God. I think it's both. Yeah. Which is a bit of a cop-out, right? No, I mean, I think that, I mentioned this earlier, but I think that this playlist is better

about crediting and better about presumably money than views was, like taking PopCon off controller was just, you know, merciless and shameless. And I think that people were rightfully upset. I think whereas here, you know, sort of skeptic gets his own interlude. He gets to shine. And that's not a perfect, that's not a perfect comparison. But it does feel like Drake is grappling with ownership and with critiques of him being like a swag jacker, like more seriously now.

And so I'm inclined to view it a little bit more favorably than I might have seen what happened on Vue, which to me. he did feel pretty, like definitely towing the line as a, you know, as a concern is co-opting. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he reads his own press, you know, he's, I think he's got a pretty good sense of what the major criticism is, you know, and whether or not he agrees with it, you know, and whether or not he's actually going to do something about it again, you know, he knows enough to pretend, like, he's going to do something about it, you know, and you have to sort of

decide for yourself how the theory is being about that, but that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, I think it was, I was talking to Hunt about this yesterday. It was just saying that, like, culture doesn't cross across, pass across borders without, freely without attacks, I guess. Right. And, like, you know, it's just difficult to position somebody as, you know, like, a hero of culture or saying that they're, like, the, dividing whether or not. it's, you know, vultorism or whether it's, you know, like, whether it's homage or larceny gets difficult when money is involved, I guess.

Right. Right, exactly. And I think the thing that it's tough and my instinct is to not lose the fact that sort of black music in particular is always in dialogue, you know, across borders, right? So you have artists on the continent pulling from Drake, you know, you have things like that happening. So how do we not lose that kind of flow and that ebb? And also, you know, find ways for folks like Drake who are clearly benefiting very commercially from inspiration from artists who are not so commercially successful. You know, how do we hold those folks accountable?

And I think that that's going to be like an ongoing conversation again. Yeah. I think it was you actually on Twitter. You mentioned a BuzzFeed article about Drake. Where did Drake's Jamaican accent come from? Yeah, that's by Jay Alder, who's Jay Fiasco on Twitter. Yeah, I edited that when I was back at BuzzFeed, and I really enjoyed working with her on that.

She is a Jamaican and Trinidadian woman who lives, who grew up in Toronto. So this is kind of her world in so many different ways. And that, yeah, that's a lot of what she kept coming back to. It's great to note that Toronto is heavily influenced by West Indian cultures, but who's getting checks here? And frequently it's Drake and it's not Popcon in a way that's even comparable to Drake. So how do you sort of start to shift that imbalance?

And where do you draw those lines basically? It's sort of what she was grappling with and what I think it's important to continue grappling with. Yeah, I thought that was a great piece. And yeah, that's sort of what I'm trying to figure out. It's just like, you know, when Drake first came out, it was like Drake from Toronto, You thought of him as being from Toronto, the way snow was from Toronto, you know. Right. This sort of a lily white, you know, Canadian city where no rapper had ever been born before.

But, you know, the reality is a little more complex. You know, it's good that that's sort of part of this conversation now, too. Yeah, definitely. And that sort of speaks to kind of a larger American or a larger U.S. kind of ignorance of what happens anywhere outside our borders. You know, there's just like, oh, Canada. I have mood, you know, like, sure. And I think that once you start to remove yourself from that being your only lens and start to discover that, oh, there are like a lot of black people in Canada

or certainly in parts of Canada, it becomes easier to kind of understand the dynamics of play. And, yeah, again, Sajai is super just like smart and on it. And it was really cool learning through her and with her on that. Cool. Well, thank you, Rob, for coming through and, you know, like having this. illuminating conversation. Thanks are blessing us with your thoughts. Blessing us with your thoughts.

And... Well, likewise. Again, Rob also has a piece up on the ringer about more life. So go and check that out. Thanks a lot, God. Again, this has been a special edition of the Channel 33 podcast about

More Life, Drake's new playlist. I am Micah Peters, a staff writer at the ringer. And I am Hannah George's, special project editor also at the ringer. All right.