The Press Box - More Susie Wiles Fallout, YouTube and the Oscars, and Another Round of Jolabokaflod

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Hello, media consumers! Bryan and Joel come together today to celebrate Jolabokaflod! They open their Jolabokaflod gifts for each other before discussing President Donald Trump’s intense TV speech from last night (09:01). Next, Joel gets a chance to share his thoughts on Vanity Fair’s big new feature on Trump’s chief of staff, Susie Wiles (16:11). Next, the guys dive into the Sherrone Moore–Michigan saga and give their thoughts on Adam Schefter's take on the situation (29:15). Following that, Bryan and Joel examine how a video made by Senator Mark Kelly ricocheted from Stephen Miller’s X account to the Pentagon (38:16). The show ends with the guys' reactions to the Oscars' move to YouTube (46:04). Plus, a few more Only-in-Podcasting clichés on our way out the door for the holidays. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and Joel Anderson Producer: Bruce Baldwin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, media consumers, happy holidays. It's press box Thursday. It's Brian Curtis. It's Joel Anderson. It's producer Bruce Baldwin. Coming up on the podcast, Trump's very intense Christmas greeting. What do we make of the reaction to the big Vanity Fair profile of Susie Wiles? Sharon Moore and Adam Schaefter and Michigan.

How the story of a video made by Senator Mark Kelly ricochayed from Stephen Miller's Twitter account to the Pentagon, YouTube and the Oscars, Joel, and on the way out the door, a few more only in podcasting cliches. But first, buddy, we got some gifts to open. That's right. I want you to go first this time because you had to, you got to go last, last time with so I want you to go first this time. Also, press box listeners, like he really, like, there's a lot of tape.

It's going to take me some time to work my way through this. This is the best wrapping job I've ever done I'm sorry If you look under the Christmas tree here My wrapping is just horrendous But I put a lot into Yolo Boko Flood You are a You've made

And I don't want to speak for Dave here But I feel like you made us look bad Because like you're just on top of this And it's wrapped all perfectly And everything And I'm like oh man I wish I'd So you don't me to open yours here

Because I got an Amazon package from you Whoops I was I said that again Oh man stop telling people That I'm airing you out But I got to open it open first. Yeah, please go first. Okay. If I had a local independent bookstore that I knew about yet, I would go there, okay, guys?

Joel is saying there are no local independent. I would know what I'm saying. It's just taking me some time. I haven't had a lot of time. Everyone in Washington, take offense at him. Oh, my God. Now, here's a book I have not read and have always wanted to read Pistol, the Life of Pete Marevich by Mark Kregal. Man, I talk, Mark Kriegel, man.

It's a Mark Kregel special. Can he just sit in an office and narrate it to me Because he was one of maybe the most mesmerizing guests He just it was all old school sports journalism Who was that? There used to be a guy that worked for the New York Sun When the New York Sun was it was Wallace Matthews Is that the name?

Yes, Wallace Matthews very much of that era Yeah, you know, it felt very Wallace Matthews I was like, oh yeah, that's yeah It's old school journalism with like a lot of mysticism and new journalism psychology. Like he's the whole package. That is awesome, man. Thank you so much for this.

Of course, of course. Did the other one not come in? Did you say it? It has not come in yet. Okay. All right. I ordered that like a week and a half ago. I've not had a chance to understand what's going on there.

But that one is sort of related to this one because it's about something we've talked about. I don't want to give it away. But maybe when it pops up, we can open that one up later too. You have me do an unboxing video on that one too? Yeah, we can do that one. We are on Instagram now, so we need to. Oh, yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's right.

You can open it up on Instagram. There you go. Oh, my guys. These are numbered. So, yeah, look for number one. That's kind of an order. Oh, man. Oh, man, this is really sweet.

Do you want me to read the note or no? Well, you can read that note. No, no. We keep things. Oh, this is such a good. Man, Brian's such a good guy, man. Okay. All right.

You ready. Ready. Number one. Number one. Number one. Okay. Yellow Book of Flood, number one. Okay. All right. Here we go. Oh, man. You know what is exactly the kind of stuff I want, man. So I'm going to open. I'm like, I don't know if I can show it to you all because it's wrapped up. It is called Black Man in the Huddle.

Stories from the Integration of Texas Football. And let me tell you something. I found that book in, wait for it, Boston. at the brattle bookshop that you've been talking about yeah yeah oh and I'm like wait I found here's a book about the integration of Texas high school football and is here oh man oh my god you know it's so crazy too because I was just talking about Dallas Carter high school and um and Friday night lights I was having a conversation about it and I was like man I just kind of that was like really the first generation of kids and started playing against other schools

and so anyway that you, it's like you read my mind. Thank you, friend. It just felt like a future Joel project somehow. You know that that's what you, I mean, it's like, it's almost like you were in my head because you know that's something that like, you know, I'm not done with Texas.

I mean, it's like, you know, when you give an editor like a really broad idea and they come back to you and they say great zone. Yeah. They don't say great idea because you don't have the idea nailed yet, but they say great zone like you're there. To me, you high school football, Texas, great zone.

It's right in there. And actually, one of the guys that I wanted to interview for a story that was sort of similar to that died on December 9th. Dr. Rod Page, former secretary of education, former president of Texas Southern University. He just passed on the ninth of this. I saw that. I've been wanting to interview him for years for a project related to this, but, you know,

still, we'll keep it going. Oh, another book. Yola Volka number two. Is that why you asked me if I had not? read this book. That's what Brian had asked me. He's like, have you ever read Bootleggers Boy? I was like, I don't think so. This is the memoir of Barry Switzer.

Former Oklahoma and Dallas Cowboys coach. This makes me feel 12 years old again. Your answer to me was you couldn't remember if you'd read it. So I was like, I'm just going to get it for him. Yeah, no, this is, I don't think I've read it because if I'd read it, I read Charles Thompson, the former quarterback in Oklahoma, who many people remember was on the cover. were Sports Illustrated in the orange jumpsuit.

So it felt it was of that era. But yes, man, Brian, you are, you're killing it. All right, I got a third book. You're overdoing it, man. But okay. That one, the second one was from Half Price Books in Fort Worth. This is from red books in Eagle Rock here in Los Angeles. Oh, my God.

Okay. All right, you know what it is. Brian, man. See, when I was talking about being 12 years old, this hits on the head. So I want to tell you a. story about this book. And press box listeners and viewers, it is this book. Bo knows Bo, one of my favorite athletes of all time.

I had one of his posters up in my house. By Bo Jackson, for those who are not so informed. Yeah, the 1984 Heisman Trophy winner, former NFL Pro Bowl running back, Major League Baseball All-Star, just one of the greatest athletes of all time. and man, thank you, so look, I'd be real quick. My mother got this book for me and Friday night likes when I was a kid. I've not found my bow nose book, Boe Book ever.

Like, it's the one book that I've had that I've not kicked. I don't know what happened to it. Oh, wow. So this is actually filling a hole. This is filling a hole in my book, in my book collection, and I need to pick it back up again. Did I ever tell you that my running backs coach at TCU was Bo Jackson's running back coach? You did. You did indeed.

Oh, my God. I did. And by the way, that Bo knows Bo, just one thing, it's signed by Bo Jackson, too. So just, I don't know, title page there. Wait, what? Oh, yeah. The Yolo Boko photo includes all kinds of surprises. What?

Yeah. Oh. Oh, Brian. There we go. Thank you, man. Oh, my God, of course. What a, man. Brian, I mean, y'all probably can tell because y'all have listened to the podcast for years.

but Brian is such a good friend and a good dude man. You are too, man. I cannot wait to read this. I can't wait to unbox what's coming. Oh, man, you're going to enjoy it. But yeah, it's, this is great, man. What a great Christmas gift? Nothing.

What could be better than reading for Christmas? It's, the Iceland had it right. I mean, they had this thing down. And it's just giving books to people. Because I like buying books for myself, as you know. But then you get to buy the book and give it away. Man. So it's not stacked up in your house.

It's even better. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I just, you know, if anybody is ever in doubt of what to get me in life, you can just get me a book. And I'll probably be happy with it. So, yeah, this is, man, I can't wait. And I feel like I'm 12 years old again when I got books that make me excited.

See, that's what we're trying to capture here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 12-year-old spirit. Let me make, you feel like you're 48 years old and talk about Trump speech last night. Oh, man. Oh, man. They're out there. Now we've switched.

Well, you know, I mean, it wasn't too far. I was, I think that was, that wasn't the Reagan era when I was 12. It was the first Bush era. Yeah. So, but anyway. The long way away from this political era. Let's put it that way. A very long, long way.

Trump's speech was 18 minutes long last night. It made me feel like I was at a Christmas party and somebody buttonholed me and started talking to me in the most intense, intense non-holiday way possible. And I couldn't get away from them. Like there's no levity. Yeah. The delivery was all like, I'm, you know, going to get all this stuff out about Biden as quickly and intensely as I can. I mean, what is it?

Because the thing is, it's not that Trump is not a funny person. It's that he stumbles into humor by being totally, uh, he's not. beholden to any social wars. So, so that's what makes him funny. But yeah, you're right. Like, there's just no, he couldn't even summon it or cheer. Have you ever just seen him like bring cheer to the mic when he's up to up to it? Yeah, I think he has. I mean, I think, you know, you could argue. We could say it's, it's bad cheer. It's cheer to a, you know, bad purpose. But he can be funny when he wants to be funny. Last night, though, he's sitting between two Christmas trees with all this garland in the background.

there were no smiles there was nothing it was all you know Biden this I mean I wrote down a few highlights slash low lights here yeah yeah talking about his blowout election victory of course he's talking about immigrants yeah he said under Biden we had quote transgender for everybody did we have that for everybody I don't yeah I'm I'm unaware of what transgender somebody somebody needs to nail him down and like what do you mean by transgender for everybody The good question to ask, I would think. Clearly he got the message from people in the White House that he wasn't talking enough about affordability. So he got very deep into that, including claiming that he had cut drug prices by 600%.

I went to a state school in Texas. I'm not a math guy, but can you cut drug prices by 600%. I don't think so. That seems very difficult. But again, this is not a platform for him. You know what I mean? Fact checking is besides the point with Trump, right? Like, you don't need to do that.

It's a waste of time to even try. So. Well, did the text of the speech just say 60%? Because that's not crazy, right? He said 400, 500, even 600%. I'm like, is he looking at the prompter and just adding a zero to each number? Yeah, I don't, you know, that's a great question. I guess it could be that. But also, like, I don't think.

the 40 to 50 or 60% thing happened either though, right? No, but that's at least like, you know, it would be a claim that would be in a Trump speech. I remember when you were a dullard for having to read the teleprompter. I remember I'm that old, but if you were a president, you had to read a teleprompter, you were an idiot. That was Obama, right? That was all on the prompter.

That was Obama. We always use the cliche that any act of the Trump administration is for an audience of one. And usually we're talking about the people that work for. him. That speech last night felt like it was for an audience of one, except it was being broadcast on all the networks. That's an interesting way

of putting it. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, is that he knows that he, I mean, it's certainly at this point, he knows that he can just commandeer broadcast time whenever he wants, right? And I, because I, did you feel the same way? Because I heard going into that speech last night, that people expected him to declare war on Venezuela, which is...

Took across him. Yeah, I mean, which is... That was... Yeah, that didn't happen, at least yet. But yeah, I mean, so... He has many different ways of reaching people. I'm curious, though, why he thinks he needed it then at that particular point to do it.

Like, that would be... I'm sort of curious as to why this message, why now? Like, you could have done this on Christmas Eve, for instance. Or closer to Christmas, if you... wanted, right? And there's no telling. It's been funny if he announced the invasion of Venezuela in front of all the garland and the Christmas tree, that would have been a truly strange

juxtaposition. Did you go into it thinking that that was going to happen? Yeah. I just felt like something might happen like that that he wants to, I think you know, it feels like he's just casting around to change the narrative, which is the narrative is he's a lame duck.

His political power is waning and it would be whoever he was, you know, even if he was a quote unquote normal president he's in his second term the party's getting restless they know they're going to get wiped out the midterms you're starting to see little breaks here and there whether it's a rob riner tweet or whatever it is like he's just he they're they're ready so he gets antsy so you think what's he going to do and you know he's talking about all the oil in venezuela the other day and we're like wait we're now so many people coming and we're now just talking about the oil as a pretext for war we're not hiding that fact that's all out there so i wouldn't put

have passed him, but I don't know. It is, it is just kind of weird too, because first of all, I mean, some other people have said, and I've seen this kind of this scuttle, but it's something that's coming when the Epstein files dropped at the end of the week and that there's going to be something in there, that this is all an attempt to distract from that or whatever. But I'm like, aren't we past that now? We know nothing is going to, he's going as long as he wants to be in office, he's going to be in office. Like, nothing is going to affect that. Like he has a- talking about through 2028? Well, I mean, yeah.

As long as he wants to be in office? Well, yeah, that's it, man. See, well, you said he's a lame duck. And that's kind of what I'm thinking. I don't think he thinks that. I don't know. Like, maybe he's afraid of that, and he's governing in a way to ensure that that does not happen.

But I don't think he thinks of himself as a lame duck. I just think that he knows that nobody is going to hold him accountable. And he can do whatever he wants. And I know that people will say, oh, you guys, you know, big libs and, you know, you know, you're anti-trum. or whatever, but I, what are we supposed to say about what has happened this week? Like, I mean, the Rob Reiner thing in and of itself, in a whole, just, just imagine being 15 years old. We were 15 years old and the president had said something like that about any one person.

It just wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have been acceptable. So I just, I don't, I don't know if he has any plans. I don't think, like you said, I think he's just shooting from the hip, man. Like, I'll, I'll have a, I'll, I'll talk to the nation. on this day. I'll I will attack Venezuela the next day. Like we just, no telling, but it just seems like that's a

really hard way for us to all have to live for another three years. Like, that's, that's kind of scary. Related, what did you think of the big Susie Wiles profile in Vanity Fair? I agree with Trump world and that

I don't know why they still talk to mainstream media. I know the way. I kind of know why they do, because they know that, again, nobody's going to hold them accountable. Like nothing is going to happen to them. And so there's really, it's sort of low stakes for them to give this sort of stuff on the record. But I am sort of curious, like, what was it about this that made this so appealing to Susie Wiles? That's an unanswered question. I think the fact that this guy, Chris Whipple, who wrote the story, is not a conventional journalist magazine writer,

but somebody who writes about chiefs of staff in particular. Yeah. So he's putting her in a lineage of James Baker, Don Rumsfeld, and on and on. There's something historical about it. I think there's an old-fashioned craving of the Vanity Fair pictures. That's true, yeah. And the Vanity Fair treatment. They are old Hollywood kind of 80s people, right? That still means something to them.

I mean, journalists always laugh when someone gets seduced by that. But, you know, how many times you've seen a journalist turn down an interview about themselves? I mean, they never do, you know, even if they know it's going to be, negative or mixed or whatever they they always answer the phone they they like we like attention as human beings and i think that's very powerful even for the trump administration which is sworn off mainstream media attention right and like she gave 11 interviews 11 i mean how many how many do you have to give before it's just not plausible that you didn't know what you were doing i know i know i yeah i mean i i and i think the thing is is that again they know that they can talk to the media

and they could say, well, they made all that up and that a core group of their supporters will believe it, right? Or that they'll just say, well, they probably made it up or they spiced up those quotes. Like they're much more inclined to believe that the mainstream media has done something nefarious of these circumstances than vice versa, right? Yeah, I mean, the response was fascinating.

First of all, I was quoted out of context. 11. All on tape. And, you know, that's something like the oldest. somebody tweet, well, you know, that's why you tape interviews so that people can't say that. Folks, I was quoted out of context. Goes back to the notepad era of journalism. Oh, yeah, man.

That's the easiest thing to say because there are no specifics to it. Yeah. No one ever comes forward and says, let me show you what I said and the context I meant it in. Right. Versus the context it was presented to the piece. You just say that and that, you know, becomes this blanket statement of don't believe the story. Right, right, right. Yeah, they were being unfair to me, essentially, is what they're saying.

Yeah, and if you actually read the Vanity Fair story as opposed to the aggregation of it, there's a ton of context in there. Absolutely. Like the line about J.D. Vance being a conspiracy theorist, it's couch in this way that she's talking about people in the administration who really understood why the Epstein story was so powerful. Right. And she's saying Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, J.D. Vance, these are people that are online. These are people that are dabbling in those worlds. So they know that this story was powerful. whether other the rest of us might have dismissed it because like who cares really about this they know that there are Donald Trump voters who are also very invested in this absolutely and you know conspiracy theorist that's a powerful thing to say about the vice president of the United States but the context is there like I totally understood what she meant when she said that right do you I mean so let me ask you this do you think that she had to say these things once the quotes were out there that it that was

the necessary response even if she doesn't necessarily feel that way she had to say i was quoted out of context sure i just think i just think again it's like a it's almost like a legal filing you just say that yeah because you know it doesn't matter whether the piece was good or bad or whatever you just say i was quoted out of context and then you just kind of put you know as you say for your audience which is people that watch fox news people that consume right wing media you just put a little doubt in there ah that you know, dastardly media that I talked to 11 times. I'm going to ask you this question, and this is sort of a bigger theoretical question. If you know that you're going to interview somebody that's, that is prone to that sort of

dishonesty, right, that they're going to say, I didn't say that or that's inaccurate or whatever, would you interview that person? Sure. You would? The chief of staff? Because you got it, just because you got it on the record. And it's like, and again, again, it's like, there's this kind of like, you know, reframing of it that she was an unwilling participant. She was the ultimate willing participant in this interview.

The piece starts with her walking out of a meeting with Donald Trump to meet Chris Whipple to do further interviews for this story. So that just doesn't fly. And by the way, I read when you read the story, again, I think people should read it because I think a lot of this becomes a quote on Twitter and this and that. and people link to the New York Times aggregation of it by Peter Baker and don't link to the actual Vanity Fair piece. If you actually read the piece, I came away thinking, this is what Susie Wiles thinks. This is why she's effective. She is absolutely there to execute Donald Trump's vision. And she has a very clear-eyed view of all these people around Donald Trump.

That's why she's so effective. And if you read the piece carefully, she's not undermining Donald Trump. No. The thing about the alcoholics. She's explaining it, but even the thing, like the thing about the alcoholics personality, Donald Trump called the New York Post this week and confirmed that that was a correct impression of his personality. Like, he said that. Like, that's not, you know, she's, you read this, you're like, I, the best thing you can say about a profile is I came away understanding who this person really is. The worst thing you can say about a profile is, I read your, I read your piece.

What do they really like? You're like, oh, God. I screwed up. I came away with this thinking. this is what Susie Wiles is really like. And this is why she's effective within Trump world. Absolutely. Yeah, I felt like it was a very,

it was a very clear rendering of somebody who, um, is clear-eyed about their role in that world. And somehow, I mean, you, you kind of get the sense that this is why she's never been, he's never tweeted anything or posted anything bad about her on true social.

Like she is truly effective. And I mean, the proof is in the pudding. They are getting everything they want. Like, right. I mean, they are 96 bulls in it right now. They're going, they're on an unprecedented run. They're doing all the shit they want to do. And she's at the center of it. So yeah, you can see why he wanted her there as opposed to anybody else to go around. Absolutely. The team that got him

reelected was not trying to tame Trump or divert Trump from his worst instincts. They were trying to carry out what Donald Trump wants to do. Right. And that's the power of Susie Wiles within that universe. Did you see this great interview with the photographer for the piece? No, I have not seen the interview with the photographer. Okay, the photographer was Christopher Anderson, replacing Annie Leibovitz who shot previous Republican administrations for Vanity Fair. Shane O'Neill, The Washington Post, had a really good interview because Christopher Anderson does these unforgiving close-up portraits and a lot of comment online. And Anderson said this to Shane O'Neill. Stephen Miller was perhaps the most concerned about the portrait session.

He asked me, should I smile or not smile? And I said, how would you want to be portrayed? We agreed that we would do a bit of both. And then when we finished, he comes up to me to shake my hand and say goodbye. And he says to me, you know, you have a lot of power in the discretion you use to be kind to people. And I looked at him and I said, you know, you do too. I was a good line. So it's a good zinger.

It is a good zinger. But it's also in that little moment, Stephen Miller, recognizing what perhaps Susie Wiles did. not, which is when I talk to you 11 times, you're going to pick the quotes. You're going to portray me as you will. This is how journalism works. And you have an enormous power in this exchange. Yeah. Well, I mean, also in the portrait, I mean, you know who was interesting? Because one thing I think about was Stephen Miller, it is sort of amazing, just given who he is, how he sounds, how he looks, you know, his background or whatever. I've always thought, man, he doesn't seem like a guy that has any insecurities.

you know no right that he's like yeah that he's a buzzsaw that he just leans into everything that he's very confident and he speaks with an authority i but you know in a rap you know is they saying a rap uh brian they say he lives his raps i believe his raps okay i believe and it just it it was kind of jarring to me to see that quote here in our notes that he said you know uh you have the power and discretion it's like oh there's a little uncertainty there like right you know the like, oh, I'm aware that the way that I come off in here, the way that I look, the way that I sound, it will, you know, I'm worried about how I might come off to people. And I would have never guessed that with him. I mean, I know that everybody fundamentally has some insecurities at some point, but I've not seen that crack in his facade before or portrayed anywhere before. So that was really interesting. One last thing before we move on, when I read social media after a story like this comes out. There's always a lot of bafflement, people guessing about Susie Wiles' motives or naivete just as we were a few minutes ago. And what I want to say is, this is how journalism is supposed to

work. You get an interview with the principal. They tell you, I don't know if the truth is the right word, but they tell you something like the truth. They give you honest assessments or semi-honest assessments. That's probably all you can ask for from a politician. And then you print it. And it's almost like we're also used to be in this world of artifice of Instagram celebrities and where people are just lying to us and spinning us all the time. Right. That when you see something that is like journalism, again, not saying it's a perfect piece, not saying Susie Wiles, bear it all look, you know, that's, it is what it is.

But when you see something like this, it's okay just to appreciate it as a really good piece of journalism. Yeah. A piece that taught us things we didn't know, that offered a perspective we didn't know, that interviewed powerful people and quoted them saying things that they perhaps did not want to be quoted saying. Like that's just how this stuff works. And again, I think it's almost like that has become partly thanks to the Trump administration, partly thanks to the media world we live in, which is full of advertising and spin and retouch photos and everything else. It's just shocking to people

when they read something like that. You can, it's very difficult to get close to anybody with any amount of celebrity or influence and them agree to sit down with you for basically just observe them enough that it's pretty much anything is in play when you talk to them like that kind of access really just does not happen anymore in journalism right it's it's a very difficult even i've been through the process talking with people about doing profiles before with other other you know outlets in the past and you'd be amazed at like all the maneuvering that goes on before like we're going to meet this person here you're not allowed to talk about this do that kind of stuff and it's like I don't want to do interview all that stuff yeah all that stuff what kind of questions are they going to ask

or whatever and maybe that happened here but it doesn't feel like it um and so yeah like that is the part that it's like i'm sure whipple feels really good today so yeah sure he does great point from alert listener nick field he said Tuesday looks like the day all the year end end end depth reporting pieces were published. Vandy Fair Susie Wiles, New York Magazine Barry Weiss in Los Angeles, New York Times Jeffrey Epstein and how he made his money, and ESPN Chris Paul and how his tenure with the Clippers ended.

I mean, man, the Clippers, man, what a year y'all have had. It's just not been, they have not, their year in media. The least they could have done was be good at basketball this year, and they couldn't even do that. But I just love it. like, okay, we got a big reported piece. You don't want to park that too close to Christmas.

Oh, yeah. So let's give it a week and change, and that way it'll have time to percolate. You can go on shows and talk about it and then we'll, you know. Is that what that is really? Because I've always kind of wondered, because I feel like, I don't know. I don't, you know, I've got kids now, so I don't have time to read during the holidays anymore because I'm corraling them or whatever. But I felt like there used to be a time of my life when I could do all my favorite,

all my reading during the holidays. And I really cherish that time. I don't have it anymore. While we're catching up on stuff, you want to talk about Sharon Moore and Michigan? Oh, man. So if you're not a college football, we must.

We must, yeah. If you're not a college football person, Sharon Moore was fired for what Michigan says was an inappropriate relationship he was engaged in with a staffer. Then he was arrested after being fired. Yeah. Because he went to that staffer's residence.

It was later charged with third degree home invasion breaking and entering and stalking. Man, what a strange. strange couple of days that was unprecedented yes unprecedented yeah

and culminated with an image of shron more during this arraignment in a white jumpsuits speaking of jumpsuits sitting there in this room I guess he was remote yeah was he being held

because at that point like he was in sort of protective custody because he'd you know threatened to harm himself reported according to prosecutors according to the theory of the case yeah Yeah. So I'm guessing that that's some of what was going on there. But that what is surreal, a surreal event. Like, have you, have you ever seen a coach at a school like that in handcuffs? Well, there's a Texas basketball coach. I'm not sure he was in handcuffs a couple of years ago, but he was definitely in a jumpsuit.

Wait, not, you know, you remember, you don't remember this? Wait, was it the Texas men's basketball coach who's now coaching at Ole Miss? It was indeed. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. I didn't see that picture of him in handcuffs, though, but I guess it must have. No, but it was a mugshot. Okay, yeah. That's a tough one, man.

Well, you guys got the good coach, you know. So I have, so I guess I, so I have seen it before, but, you know. It's, it doesn't come around a lot. that is I didn't do did Barry Switzer when he got a when he got to get

when he got that gun going through the airport did he get arrested did he have to do a mug shot? Yeah you know I don't remember that I feel like I remember every image of the 90s Cowboys but I don't remember yeah I feel like if that had happened

I feel like we would have seen it so yeah so last Thursday this is the day after Moore's firing yeah ESPN's Adam Schuster once again got cast as a

crime reporter who's on first take and this is what Schefter came up with. What we haven't heard yet is Sharon Moore's side of this. And he gets his say into this particular situation as well. And I do know that he felt like people had it in for him for an awful long time there while he was at Michigan. He felt like there were people who were out to get him. So all these things can all be true. It's possible that yes, Michigan does have evidence that he had an inappropriate relationship with a staff. And it could be. that Sharon Moore is right that people had it in for him. But the whole situation itself is just sad and tragic

because now we have a individual who had his professional life, his personal life, completely upended. We have a school with a bunch of players who don't have a coach to turn to right now. We have a school in search of a program, a new coach to lead forth that program. There are a whole host of things that have transpired here that have led this to be a completely surreal,

wild situation that if you heard about it, you wouldn't believe it because it almost seems made up. ESPN needs to hire more people, don't they? I mean, why is Adam Schaeftor doing that? He's the NFL guy. I mean, look, man, I know they don't have the money they used to have when we were on the payroll there, but they have enough money that they don't have to put him in that position. And I don't know if I should blame Adam Schaefter for this, or if you blame the machinery behind him that is forcing him to have to comment on it in those circumstances. Because normally you would have the way that it used to be when we were growing up on ESPN, that'd be somebody posted up outside in Arbor, and they'd be giving in a report. And they'd say, you know, Sharon Moore just recently was

discharged from jail and we're waiting to hear his side of events, but blah, blah, blah, blah, you don't have, there's no need, there was no need for Adam Schaefter to be involved in this as far as I can tell, but maybe I'm crazy here? I think I would hear you say a couple of things. One is I would blame both Adam Schefter and ESPN. Okay. Okay. And the only thing I'd counter you on is I think ESPN has people that can talk about

this on the payroll. Their names are Dan Wetzel. Their names are Pete Thamel. Their names are any number of college football reporters. Pretty sure they did cover Sharon Moore's arraignment in Ann Arbor. Yeah. So like, I don't think this is something. where you know you don't have the the staff members it's just two things are happening one is

it's first take so somehow instead of having like a network that is run that runs around sports center right where things are about news and updates it's run through opinion and you get that weird thing of you know what if michigan had it out for this guy all along you're like come on man like is that really is that really the take today well you know i mean so i don't disagree with him but I think the context to that is that it could be that people had it out for him because they knew that he was engaged in an inappropriate relationship with the female staffer. It also wasn't a good football coach, right? Or not as good as they thought he should be. Like, he could, all the, he's right. All those things could be true. But the reason people could have it out for him are the actual reasons that he got fired. And he's like, man, all these people know that I hired this young lady who is my mistress. I gave her a $35,000 a year raise and all this other stuff is going to. You know, that could be why, Adam, I think in Sharon, that the people didn't not want you there. So Adam is right in that regard, but that's not, yeah, nobody wants to hear that in this moment, right?

The other part of this is something we said about Shams when he was talking about the NBA's gambling scandal, which is the insider character has just gotten so big that they become the insider of everything. right it's not hey did Patrick Mahomes actually tear his ACL and MCL then Michael Parsons tear his ACL and he's going to need surgery and when he's when's he's he going to come back it's like you have an opinionated like take about Sharon Moore because you're that guy and you're so big that of course you have an opinionated take of course you get that slot on first take do you know do you actually just think that Adam Schaefter got caught up in the air it happens right when he was just talking he didn't know how to to close out that segment. He, I mean, he wanted to say, this is sad and tragic. And then he didn't know how to get there. And his bridge was that, well, you know,

I know this, that Sharon felt this way. I've heard that. Maybe he thought he was being fair, you know, to be honest. Like, oh, he's going to have his day in court. Let's not jump to conclusions, which is, you know, again, in a vacuum, not a bad thing to think. Yeah. Yeah, I can totally see that.

But again, it's just, that's just putting somebody in the wrong position. Again, I think if we looked at the rest of the ESPN app, and how they reported that week, they were doing fine. Yeah. They were covering the case. They were looking for it. They were reporting really hard on it. They've got a really big college football team.

And again, people like Wetzel who can do serious stories. And I think they probably did a great job. It's just you put somebody in a position like this or you just think of insiderdom as being, I can talk about anything. I have all the answers you want, not just free agent signings, but answers about, you know, alleged crimes. And you're like, that's just not it, man. By the way, some people tweet, well, you know, he's a Michigan man.

What do you expect him to say? I was like, folks, no one at Michigan wanted this take on that way. Right. Well, also, in that the reason to not have him talk about it then? But I don't even care. Like, if he knows stuff about Michigan and he's a Michigan fan, great. Like, if he can give me information about that, but this was not a pro-Michigan take in any possible way. That was not what was at issue here.

It was not. Okay, let me ask you, do you think Adam Schaefter raised his hand for this assignment, or do they think they said, hey, you got anything? We need to get, we need to get somebody on camera on this. That's a great question. I don't know. Yeah. Because that's why I'm kind of, my thing is,

I'm inclined to believe ESPN wanted him on camera and asked him to do something. And I don't know if you're like this. If anybody in, you know, I mean, my ringer boss is listening to this. If you ask me to do something, I'm going to feel obligated to do it. And even if I don't feel like doing it, I might try to get out of it. But I feel obligated to do it. And I wonder if Adam Schepter feels like that. And especially in this climate or whatever.

But again, I don't need to cop too many more, please, for Adam. He certainly misspoke in those circumstances. Let's talk about another story that really fascinates me. Did you see the story about the run-in yesterday between Arizona Senator Mark Kelly and Pete Hegson? I sure did. It's a strange one. And I think it's also a parable for me. here in Trump 2.

Oh, okay. Well, say more. So follow along here. Last month, Mark Kelly and some other lawmakers who were veterans of either the military or the intelligence services made a video telling current members of the military or current intelligence pros to refuse to obey illegal orders. Here's a snippet of that video. Our laws are clear.

You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders. No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. We know this is hard. And that it's a difficult time to be a public servant. But whether you're serving in the CIA, the Army, or Navy, or Navy, the Air Force,

Your vigilance is critical. So the same day that video was tweeted out, November 18th, Stephen, should I smile or not smile Miller, got on his Twitter account and wrote this, lawmakers are now openly calling for insurrection. I mean, they've really repurposed insurrection, man. I mean, they could not wait to just take it and just use it. Yeah, we're going to both sides insurrection here, right?

Everything they do is insurrection, okay. You know, and some people charge the Capitol, you did make a video. Yeah, right. Yeah, I just wanted to see. They wanted to go on a tour, sure. So that was November 18th. November 19th, the video became a huge story on, Fox News, Stephen Miller went on Will Kane's show, and he said this.

It truly is an incredible video, Stephen, and one that you see is insurrection? It is insurrection, plainly, directly, without question. And when you have one of the lawmakers on that video being unable to state in, as you say, lengthy cross-examination, a single so-called illegal order, it just proves the point. It's a general call for rebellion from the C.O. and the armed services of the United States. I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Insurrection is really the phrase that pays, too. It's like, sir, would you say this is insurrection?

Yes, I would say this is insurrection will. Yeah, okay. Wow. Ah, man, that's funny. I mean, this is funny in some ways because it's absurd. But it's also scary because they, I mean, they have. They have implied that Mark Kelly could be executed for this. Oh, yeah.

So that comes next. Fox News Day was November 19th, November 20th, Donald Trump, who's been known to watch some television in his time, went on true social and wrote, each one of these traitors to our country should be arrested and put on trial. Politico noted that the president then reposted 16 true social posts, including one that advocated for hanging the Democrats, like, quote, George Washington would. Same day, Trump wrote, seditious behavior punishable by all caps, death. I mean, the thing is,

is that they've kind of shown a remarkable lack of discretion in, you know, sending people to Eswatini or El Salvador, killing people and boats off the coast of Venezuela. So this sort of ups the ante. Like they definitely think threatening death, are killing people is a useful political tool. And it's not a surprise. Well, it is a surprise.

This is crazy. This is happening. So four days after that, the Department of War slash defense announced that they were investigating Senator Mark Kelly. The investigation may include recall to active duty for court martial proceedings or administrative measures. So again, follow the chain of custody here. Stephen Miller on Twitter.

leads to Stephen Miller on Fox News, leads to Trump on true social, leads to a Department of Defense investigation. That would be remarkable in any other administration, maybe not in the Trump administration. But here's something that is truly unique, I think, to Trump two rather than Trump one. We know the Pentagon Press Corps has exited the building

and been replaced by a Trump-friendly Pentagon Press Corps. Well, this Monday, Jack Prasobiac, Matt Gates, and yes, Laura Lumer, who improbably, Joel, are members of the new Pentagon Press Corps, tweeted that the Department of War slash defense was escalating the preliminary review of Captain Mark Kelly to an official command investigation. So now we've got Stephen Miller on Twitter to Miller on Fox News to Trump on true social to a Department of, of defense investigation to finally elements of that investigation reported by a Trump-friendly

press corps that replaced the old Pentagon press corps. I mean, it's Trump's world, man. This is what I'm saying. They are the 96 bulls of this shit. They're doing whatever they want.

I mean, it's hard, man. You know, you can't stop and you can only hope the contains. Yeah. Quote the late great steward Scott. Yeah. This is all wrapped up yesterday because Pete Hexeth was

on Capitol Hill briefing senators about those boat strikes in the Pacific and the Caribbean. Mark Kelly asked a question, then Hexas decided once again to get into the whole video and investigation about the video. So, again, just a little parable for our media times. I am curious now that you've mentioned about like what the people that were expelled from the Pentagon press room, what they're reporting has looked like from there. That's something I guess I can be paying attention to as well. But I am curious, the context and how they're reporting this, because this is. I mean, talking about

unprecedented escalation. I mean, this is, I mean, implying that you might be willing to try and execute a sitting U.S. Senator is a really, I mean, I mean, we, I know we always talked about, you know, this is, you know, in these times or whatever, that is really beyond the pale, man.

And it didn't, it didn't feel like it's being reflected in the media in quite the, in quite the outrageous circumstances. that it is. Well, and that's the problem with the media. And again, I say this is not a criticism, but I think it's one of those things that we've all struggled with throughout

Donald Trump's tenure. I saw the Robb, somebody, I think it was the New Yorker writing about the Rob Reiner tweet and said, this is a new low. And I'm like, aren't they all new lows? So how do you, how do you, you know, scale all this up? And everybody's like, well, you know, one day later, this isn't even a story. Somebody was tweeting yesterday like, hey, we've already forgotten

about Susie Wiles calling J.D. Vance a conspiracy theorists a day later. I'm like, there's a lot. We used the name Kilmar-Abrego earlier. And when was the last time people talked about Kilmar? That's a great question. Yeah. I mean, again, let's just say this. Has there been reporting about that? Absolutely, there's been reporting about that. In fact, I read the story in the Times the other day. Has it surfaced in our national discourse to the level that perhaps the seriousness of what happened deserves? I guess not. And it's really hard. And what's solution to that. Like what do we do? Who do we call to make sure that it is surfacing in an

appropriate way? I don't know. YouTube and the Oscars, Joel. Yeah, man. Big Oscars fan watching it every year, keeping track of all the minutia and historical freight of the Oscars. You know, I can be lured in for a few minutes at a time. There was a time when it was a much bigger part of my life. That's pretty much true for everybody. since viewership has fallen 43% in the last decade. Oh, man. I hate to come that person, but yeah. It was announced yesterday that the Oscars are moving from ABC to YouTube in 2029.

They've been on ABC since 1976. It's funny because I had just read the stories about, pardon my take, leaving YouTube for Netflix. I was like, oh, I thought this was the week that everyone was leaving YouTube, not joining YouTube. It's funny. I mean, this is one of those stories where it's like, it just feels like we, every couple of days, we inch closer and closer to the precipice that is the end of television as we understand it. Yeah, because that is shocking.

Because, I mean, you know how I remember when there was a time in our lives when meeting somebody online was sort of weird. Like people thought, oh, man, we date people online. That's crazy. You don't know that person. and then like it just became the thing that we did like that more people meet online now than they did you know so many ever decades you looked weird when i said that so am i getting that wrong i think more no no absolutely yeah i just i just kind of yeah have it's anyways anyway go ahead oh memories okay i'm gonna investigate that later but uh anyway and so maybe this is the same thing with tv right

because you're just like i'm not youtube is i mean my son watches videos of trucks running over strawberries on YouTube. Like that is just a repository for me looking up videos of people jumping off roofs and into tables and stuff. But now the idea that this is where they're going to put the Oscars and you can watch football games on YouTube and all this is just slowly but surely turn into a thing. I watch YouTube TV as a rule now. I don't watch any, you know, most of my interface with my TV is through some portal

involving YouTube. I guess that's just the reality. Even though it just seems weird that it's not going to be on broadcast TV, man. Yes, it is. And, you know, this is a case where, look, the Oscars as a TV show is a depreciating asset. Yeah. And one thing we've seen is that for streamers, they look at it and go, oh, but that's still an asset for us. That's something we could make, you know, hay out of.

So, you know, the NBA regular season, let's say. There's something that people are, as a rule, not paying much attention to. But if you're Amazon and you can get a piece of that, if you're peacock and you can get a piece of that, you're like, oh, but this is the thing that's going to make people subscribe to us to pick our streamer over the other streamer. So even in its diminished state, the Oscars are a big deal. Also gives some further legitimacy, if YouTube needed any, to that kind of streaming service. Oh, this is where the Oscars are. This is where NFL football is now, right? Picking up the little pieces of what's left to television.

But in a way, it's not surprising. It's very funny to see people saluting movies and theaters from a streaming platform. Right. This is great tension as you know between the actual little exhibition and streaming. Now we're going to do the award ceremony on streaming. That's funny to me. I mean, I was explaining to my son, my three-year-old son the other day, about movies. I was like, you know, so what we used to do, you had to go to the movie.

You had to go buy a ticket and you go into a big. room with a whole bunch of other people and you had to watch it and they couldn't stop it or anything you know it just ran and if you had to get up and use the bathroom and get a snack you might miss the movie and i'm just like oh this sounds really old this sounds very antiquated right it sounds like something that people are not going to be doing anymore so yeah that's this this is just the reality maybe they should have hand with your kids i mean we're going to avatar on sunday already bought my tickets like we're it's so much fun that's great yeah it's a nice night out my kids my kids have five My son Desmond is finally getting close enough to he can tolerate a movie.

Yeah. We ran out Toy Story on him this past weekend. See, there you go. And when you're in the theater, I find that it's kind of a weirdly does some parenting for you because the lights go down. You know, there's just kind of a sense of, okay, this isn't time to be quieter, you know, whatever. Sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, that's it true. Before we get out of here, we did only in podcasting cliches, Joel on Monday's show.

We asked for people. and I got so many. I just got a few more here. I want to get out. From Jacob Welman says, cliche is the guest acting blown away and humbled from the host's incredibly superlative introduction of them. That is...

I'm very honored for you to say that. Oh, man, thanks for... I mean, look, I'm just honored to be in here with you guys, you know, that kind of stuff. I think you and I have been on both sides of that particular transaction. Philip Sanford says, Friend of the Pod,

when a name comes up in an interview that has been on an earlier episode of that podcast. Everyone is a friend of the pod. That's lingo that I have adopted, yes. Wheel jaundice says many of the only in podcast expressions noted by the press box, like, let me piggyback on that, are often heard in another place, meetings. Our podcast just edited and uploaded meetings in which the listener has no stakes. That's a good idea.

Edited and uploaded meetings. That is what we're trying to do every week. Yeah, that's the vibe we're trying to get y'all to get tune in for. Yes. And finally, Brian Drake says he's noticed hosts using the phrase, Can I say something? As if this isn't a podcast they host or they are pressed for time. I would love for Joel during Ringer Tailgate to respond if Van can say something to respond with no and move right along. I'm pretty certain I've already done that to Billy.

So I'm pretty sure I've done that to Billy already. It is really funny because podcasts, we were laughing about this because there's a lot of very formal old school, if I may. Yeah. You know, may I say something? Can I please add to that if you don't mind? Yes, it would have felt weirdly formal to us in the 80s, like it came from the middle of the 20th century and now has come roaring back in podcasting. I must say, I must say, that's a great one I was here on podcast. Like, no one in real life says, I must say.

I must say that was a delicious hamburger. The idea that there is some sense of decorum creeping up into some aspect of our lives is not bad. I'm alright, I'm okay with that. That is the press box. He's Joel Anderson. I'm Brian Curtis. Pretty semantic by Bruce Baldwin. Coming up, you're going to have Brian plus Joel plus David.

For our year-end episode, the media people of 2025, Joel. The illustration from Matt James looks fantastic. So we've got to record a podcast that lives up to the illustration. Joel and I are also going to record a mailbag episode that will run over the holidays. We've gotten some fantastic questions. We've got some great questions.

They're really good. If you've got one, get it in right now at the press box pot on either Twitter or Blue Sky because we will be recording that one in advance as well. Yeah, man. They can hit us up too. You know, hit us up at our you know, Twitter or Blue Sky accounts.

You know where to find us. You know what to find us. You know what to find us up. We would love your questions. It can be about anything. Media, Texas, high school football, Yolo Boko Flood. Oh, yeah, man. Any of those, I would do barbecue, you know, Tex-Mex.

We got a barbecue question actually yesterday, which was people you've met in barbecue lines. So I want you to think about that one as we roll into the holiday season. Okay. Oh, man. That's a fun one. Okay. Can't wait to see you, Joe, when we talk about. all that stuff and have more lukewarm takes about the media looking forward to it buddy