The Press Box - One Perfect Story: Wright Thompson on Writing About Michael Jordan

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Bryan is joined by Wright Thompson on the 10-year anniversary of his ESPN profile "Michael Jordan Has Not Left the Building." They begin by reflecting on the pitching process—discussing how the story came to be and how Thompson got a hold of Michael—then touch on his expectations for the piece, his experience talking with both Michael and Michael's friend George Koehler, and what he came prepared for. Later, they discuss the impact the piece had on his career and how it compares to features highlighting other greats such as Tiger Woods, Ted Williams, and Phil Mickelson. Host: Bryan Curtis Guest: Wright Thompson Associate Producer: Erika Cervantes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello, media consumers. Welcome to the press box. Brian Curtis of the ringer here, along with producer Erica Servantes. To introduce the second installment of our one perfect story series, let me take you back a decade or more. Back then, there were a lot of us sportswriters who used to go to bars. We would have a few drinks.

And then one of us would say, you know, somebody should write the great magazine story about what Michael Jordan's life is. like now. Somebody should write how Jordan the basketball player is living uncomfortably inside the body of Jordan the middle-aged man. And then, high on reading Richard Ben Kramer on Ted Williams for the 18th time, we look around the bar and think, am I going to write that piece? Are you? Well, 10 years ago this month, that piece landed on the internet. It was on ESPN's website and its title was Michael Jordan has not left the building.

It was written by Wright Thompson. Reading that piece in 2013 was like driving a fast car and discovering it has two or three additional gears. By spending a couple of days around Jordan, Thompson had found this nostalgic, almost wistful side to MJ. He also found this smoldering competitive rage. Jordan, as Thompson looked on, watched TV, and picked apart LeBron James' game.

as Jordan told him, I would give up everything now to go back and play the game of basketball. And as I always say on one perfect story, this is where you're supposed to hit pause and read or reread Michael Jordan has not left the building over on ESPN. Then, come back here

and learn how a great magazine story came together. Here's Wright Thompson on writing about Michael Jordan. Okay, right, when did a Michael Jordan profile first appear on the list of stories you wanted to write? I mean, I think he was probably 47 or 48. I mean, I claimed that one early. As you know, at ESPN sometimes it's like the hardest thing to do is to not get stepped on by your own people. So like, I traffic copped that one early, but I was just fascinated.

What do you do when you used to be Michael Jordan? How do you put an acclaim at ESPN? I think I got there first. It was like, hey, I'm, you know, I really, I'm going to make a run at this. and I don't know, they cleared the runway, which I'm very grateful for. That is 100% Mr. Rod King. Among sports writers, there's always a list of really big, unwritten profiles. And tell me if I'm remembering this right.

The list a decade and change ago was what MJ's life is like, what Tiger Woods's life is really like, which you took care of a few years later, and what Phil Mickelson's life was really like? Is that about it? Well, I mean, I would argue that Phil Mickelson is not the same as or tiger. But I mean, you know, I want to know what Barry Bonds' life is like. I mean, there are a few still hanging out there.

But like, you know, Jordan was the white whale to end all white whales. So the first hurdle is getting to Jordan. I read you wrote letters to his people trying to get an interview. What did the letters say? I wrote a letter after I read a New Yorker story on Paul McCartney. The headline of that was when I'm 64. I don't know if you remember that. But it was great.

And it was, you know, Paul McCartney at 64, just sort of trying to process what had happened. And my pitch to them was, you were my age and an American. Michael Jordan is Paul McCartney. And I want to do a story that looks at Michael's life on the eve of 50. How'd you explain to them that you were the writer to do it? I didn't. I mean, I sort of thought that they're going to go do their own research. I mean, his people were really, really savvy.

And I sort of just figured, let me just write them. And then they're going to go do what they're going to do. I mean, what's interesting is it almost didn't happen because I don't know if you remember this, but back when the magazine was alive and thriving under Chad Millman, we did these things called one day one game where the entire staff would go to a game and we do an issue on a game and one of them was LSU Alabama

and I had the best relationships at LSU of anyone on the staff and so I was sort of the point person for a lot of the access and Jordan's people called and said can you come to Charlotte on this Wednesday and I was like I can't do it I'm going to be in Baton Rouge

and like it would have really screwed a lot of people fail out. And so I just, I turned Jordan down and I didn't, I sort of thought that was it. I didn't hear from him again for four or five months. Wow. You told Michael Jordan, I'm sorry, I'm busy that day. Well, I mean, you know, I mean, it wasn't a flex.

I was busy that day. And like, I'm a big believer. If you say you're going to be somewhere, you need to be somewhere. Whenever I read a really good profile of a famous person, the answer to the question of why did they agree to do this is usually well. they got a movie coming out, they got a book coming out. Michael Jordan's bigger than that. What do you think interested him in agreeing to this? I think they knew that him turning 50 was going to be a cultural moment

and that if he didn't talk about it, it was still going to be talked about, but just wasn't going to be rooted in reality is what I think. And I think that whatever sort of itch is that ultimately led to the last dance had already started for him. One of the things that I think about a lot, and especially lately, because I've been working on a Joe Montana profile, is Jordan and I were watching Sports Center together, and there was some debate about who was better, Montana or Brady. At that point, Brady had three Super Bowls and Montana had four. And Jordan was just apoplectic that people would forget how great Joe Montana was because he could just see it all, you know, his own slow death. It's funny. I smiled when I reread that passage because reading it 10 years later,

now Tom Brady is the old guy who just retired. We're having a conversation about Patrick Mahomes someday and in some way, you know, taking some of that. It's interesting how it's a circle and, you know, Tom is a great athlete's ultimate resource and greatest enemy at the same time. You know,

and you see that over and over. And I think, you know, Jordan was entering a phase in his life where his opponent was no longer another basketball player, but was this huge force that ultimately he couldn't defeat. And I don't know. I think that that had something to do with him saying yes. Let's say he had said no to an interview. Would you have done what you did with Tiger and found a way to write the story anyway? I'd already started.

So that's a yes? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, you can't got to be a carrot and a stick. You go to Charlotte where Jordan owns the bobcats who are now the Hornets. Where'd you meet him first?

In his office. And I mean, it's a real interesting window. I mean, the PR guy didn't know I was in town. I always thought it was fascinating. Like, just to get the flow of information. No, I met him in his office. And I brought him a Cuban cigar. and he smiled and that handed me back to Cuban cigars.

And so like, it was on. You know, I was like, okay, that's a real Michael Jordan move to like, we, you know, go into a humidore and we're here too. Did you have to go find like a nice Michael Jordan level Cuban cigar? You know, I was on a kick where I was smoking a lot of Cuban cigars. That all came to an end because I got busted by customs because I was buying my, cigars from the stealthily named Cuban cigars.com. And I got this letter, and my wife was just on the couch rolling as I read the letter with fear.

So that all stopped. But Jordan got one of the leftovers from that. They were really good. And this leads to a great line where I think you asked, can you smoke in here? And Jordan says something like, well, shit, I own the building. So, yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. And by the way, his apartment has these, like, I can only describe it as like Augustin National in reverse.

It has these fans on the ceiling that suck all the smoke out. And like, I don't know what that cost, but it works. It's really incredible. When you're in his office with him, is it you two alone or are his people around? No, it's just the two of us. Just the two of you. And, yeah. And, you know, we talked for, well, I mean, it was the two of us for a couple of hours. and then his best friend George, who is a player in the story, shows up. And for people who don't know, George was a limo driver in Chicago, and in 1980, whatever that would have been, or when Jordan was a rookie, he shows up to Chicago,

and the Bulls forgot to send somebody to pick him up at the airport. So he's just standing out there with all his stuff, and his limo driver rolls the window down and says, Hey, are you Michael Jordan? And Jordan says yes. And the guy's like, do you need a ride? Jordan says yes. And that limo driver was George and George is still there.

So you're in his office and then you wind it back at his house with the fans on the ceiling at some point watching basketball for a night? So what happened was basically the way they told me is like, look, Jordan, this will go until he's sick of you. You know, like he'll decide when he's done and you'll be able to tell. And it was going really well with me and Michael. And it was going really, really well when George came in because I just realized it was better for the two of them to tell stories and talk. So I stopped sort of asking questions and started just throwing out prompts, you know, trying to almost like pinball paddles, trying to keep it in an area. But other than that, just let these guys talk. And then at some point, Jordan picked up the phone to call his wife to let her know there was going to be company for dinner.

and that's how I found out that we were going to his house. Like there was no asking or anything. So just having George around, it turns the dynamic from me asking Michael questions to, as you say, you throwing out prompts and them telling stories. Sort of changes. Yeah, it just got a lot better. Yeah, it really was, you know, secret is that, you know, George is a much better interviewer of Michael Jordan than I am.

Are you running a tape recorder or you scribbling notes? At different times, both. I mean, I think in his office I was running, no, I was definitely running a tape recorder when he and George were talking because they were talking so fast. How much time did you spend with MJ All Told to report this piece? First day was probably 14 hours. And then I got him off and on over the next two days. And then I went, I went up to D.C. Talk to all the folks who work for him.

so but i mean jordan all told probably 16 17 hours that's a lot no it it is i mean it's not there are people that i've spent more time with but like for a sustained amount of time with him it was i mean it hasn't happened before since you know you've talked at this point to a whole bunch of famous people was there any part of you that was nervous to talk to michael jordan

i'm sure this makes sense for people who have our jobs but i was I was incredibly nervous about poking. I wasn't nervous about talking to Michael Jordan. You know, you get a certain number of runs at these things, and every sports writer on some level is trying to write one of those stories. You know, secret to writing a story like that, of course, is the subject. And, like, you don't get a lot of swing with that. You know, in a career doing this, you know, at least I was hyper aware that

this might be the greatest intersection of information about an unknown person who happens to be incredibly famous, which of course is the city. So you have a swing at it. Do you come in with a formal list of questions? I did not. I read everything that had never been written about him, literally. And then I had sort of talking points, but I had written down five things I had to have to be able to write any kind of story if I got in his office and we were in there for seven minutes. And I could tell he hates me. Or you know what I mean?

Like, if it started going really bad, I had written down the questions that I had to have because you can't go get time with Michael Jordan and come back to your editor and be like, ah, yeah, it was not really his story. Like, that's not acceptable. You remember what those five things were? One of them was, I'd heard that there was something interesting

about his Chicago house. Because I'd done reporting beforehand, talking to people who knew him, interviewing people just all in background, just trying to be able to ask more detail questions, or at least have it not be completely a fishing expedition. And so I had a couple of sort of scenes that I thought would be really good in the story that if everything was falling apart, I was like, okay, I got to get these five. I got to get enough detail to put these five stories in his mouth.

As a reporter, do you feel a physical sensation somewhere in your body when you, you're getting great material? There was a moment when I, when me and Michael and Quinn Buckner were sitting there and they were talking about aging, which I think is the lead of the story, I love that John Steinbeck quote from East of Eden about the only lasting story has to be about the, you know, it has to be universal if it's going to be good. And when they started talking about aging, I was like, oh, this is about every living human not Michael Jordan.

And I mean, then yeah, the spidey sense was... There's some wonderfully telling details in the story. What did you think when you learned that Michael Jordan was competitively playing the video game bejewled on his iPad? I mean,

felt a little sad for him. It was just like, you know, like, and very good at it. You know, they were sitting around. They weren't fucking around,

Brian. I mean, this was like, they were really playing. And so, Part of me is like, well, of course he is. You know, Joe Montana is an incredibly competitive dominoes player. You don't want to fuck with him instead of dominoes.

I don't know. I thought it was a perfect detail because I was just like, oh, this is not, can't turn this on and off. This is not like a decision he makes. This is imprinted on every cell. See, I could imagine that. I just thought what Jordan would manifest itself. through like poker, you know.

Or, you know, or like, or like, coming a professional bow hunter. Or, you know, he's become a very, very good Marlon fisherman.

And is like, like, enters competitions. He has big, like, top of the line fishing boat. That's a great name that he came up with.

That is good. I know. You know, Michael Jordan had to go do another Jordan story. Just because it has such. Such echoes of Ted Williams. I was going to say, if you want to do Richard Ben Kramer and Ted Williams, it can't get me closer than Michael Jordan trying to reel in a big one

and prove what a great fisherman is. Sitting on my desk, I have the Esquire figure that put every magazine into a bound book. And I have the 1986 Esquire book that has that William's story in it. It's going to ask you about that. Were you reading that piece while you were writing this one? I was not almost, I thought about it, honestly. And then I just was like, I can't, I can't go read Joe DiMaggio, can't go read Frank Sinatra, I can't go read at Williams because me tropes.

I consciously didn't. I mean, that's interesting. I've never really, but, you know, it was interesting how, I mean, to me at that moment, that Ted Williams story was, it is interesting how 10 years later, as like, I wanted to do different kinds of stories. different kinds of things to be interesting. Like, I think now the ideal of a magazine, the greatest magazine story ever written is Falling Man, by Tom Chino.

What is the goat? So you don't want to pick up Kramer and Gay Talese because you find you'll be immersed in their voice and their world. That and, you know, those stories, because they've been copied and often copied poorly, Like, it leaned to trope. You know, and I just felt like I got great stuff.

And let's just, let's focus on the six inches in front of my wing so hard you miss. When a lot of people think of Michael Jordan, the person they think of the last dance now, how was the MJ of that documentary different than the one you talked to in Charlotte? You know, I talked to him in Charlotte. He was dating the woman who is now his wife. And I think that was a. that has been a tremendous force for good in his life. You know, I went back to talk to him several years later for the Tiger Wood story,

and he was much more at peace even then than when I'd seen him the first time. I mean, it seemed to me like the work he needed, the work that the person in my story needed to do got done. And like, I find that really interesting, which is another reason I'd like to go back and write the Marlin fishing. I'm curious what of that lunatic remains free to prowl and what has been put down. I'm just curious. Like what?

Never would have permitted him. I think crying Jordan really helped him. I think it gave him permission to not have to. Your piece ends with Jordan going to bed at night watching cowboy movies like he used to do with his dad, James. How did you find out what Michael Jordan was doing when he went to bed? So it was like, I don't know what time, 1 o'clock, 1.30 in the morning. And Glenn Buckner and I were both staying at the same hotel. It got to be time to leave.

And so we were all saying goodbyes, and Jordan pulled out his iPad that controls all the AV. And as we were saying goodbye, was turning on the television in the bedroom. And, you know, he said he did that. So I was watching. And I said, hey, what channel? And he was like, oh, I'm starting. 3921. I'm like, what is that?

He goes, what's AMC Westerns or whatever it was. And so, all right, Michael, you have homework. Kind of looked at me like, what fuck?

And I said, in the morning, the first time I see you, I want to know what movie you watched. And then I went home that night and found the

Comcast Charlotte schedule saw that the movie that was on was unforgiven. And then the next morning I saw him in an elevator. And I was like, what was the movie?

And he said, was unforgiven. And then I said, did you make it to the scene where where Clint Eastwood shoots everybody because, you know, you should have decorated my bar with your bar with my friend? Jordan was like, no, I fell asleep for that. So that's the ending. Let me ask you about writing this story. You wrote the piece you interviewed him like five weeks before his 50th birthday.

So you had about a month to write this? Yeah, yeah, roughly. Yeah. I mean, it happened really fast. That was fast for you, you thought. No, I mean, I did it in like four days. Was writing it easy or hard? Easy, honestly.

I mean, the hardest part was, I think there were a couple of sections that, you know, were full of the things you didn't know about this famous person that I cut. Because it felt like, hey, those are great details for an omnibus story. So, like, those were hard cuts. You remember one of them? I'm trying to think. I'm sure they're in my email. I'm sure there's a draft of this thing.

One of them was, there was a lot of watching basketball. You know, I mean, we watched two or three games. And so, you know, there was a lot of that. And then there was stuff about, there was a lot of really interesting backstory that it just didn't feel like the story for that. So I did another Jordan story when the last. dance came out. It was all about his family history. And some of that stuff ended up in that second Jordan story because it was still things that nobody knew. And it got huge eventual. When you're watching basketball, this is when Jordan starts telling you how he'd guard

LeBron James. It was about to win his fourth MVP that season. And that's what winds up in the story. Yes, that was, you know, and he was called and he goes, all right, he's going to, like he was calling out what he was going to do before he was going to do it. And he got it right a couple of times in a row and then I started paying. Back up for me for a second. When you're writing features for the Casey Star and then for ESPN, what kind of feature writer

did you want to become? Best interest everybody wants to be. I want to be one of those SI guys. I mean, that's what I really wanted to be more than any. All I wanted in the entire world was for sports. I mean, that. I wanted to do that. And then at ESPN, I got just

talked about like luck and The editor of the Jordan piece was the editor who really changed everything for me, just in terms of like, that was signed to Jay Lovinger. One thing about Michael Jordan and about Ted Williams, too, is they wanted to be the best at what they did, not merely great, but the best. That's like the first line of Richard Ben Kramer's story. When you thought about your career, did you articulate that to yourself? I want to be the best at this? Well, I mean, there's the lie I'm going to tell you. what kind of psycho narcissist would ever articulate something like that to themselves.

Otherwise, what, like, I honestly, like, jokes aside, maybe this just says more about my father. And if you're not in it for that reason, I don't even understand what the fuck. You certainly won't get there, but if that, you know, my mom used to stay, study for 100, and then you'll make a 95. Like, I just, I don't, I honestly don't know why you would do it if you weren't on some level, some level trying to be the greatest who ever did it. Makes perfect sense to you, but there are lots of people who don't think that way.

It's interesting to be. I mean, it's interesting. You know, I'm on a, in the world. I mean, it's Neil who's all of our editor and Tom Gino. And I'm like,

God damn it. Not only am I not the greatest of all time. I'm not even the fucking greatest on my text threat. Oh, like, so I mean, it's interesting how the idea of wanting to be that is such a,

young man's thing because like, I mean, that was such a powerful impulse for me and isn't anymore. Certainly, you know, the body of work is going to be what it's going to be. I mean, I'm much more interested in the fact that like every day, you know, I'm going to get off this call with you and have a long call with Eric Neal, my editor, because I'm working on a Joe Montana story and I want this story to be the best. thing I've ever done. So that's how it's sort of changed. It's like much more. I just want to get better and learn something new and try new things.

And that's much more of a motivator. It's funny. You look at your younger self. What an app. Even thinks. Jordan's stories published in February 2013. The issue of ESP in the magazine is actually dated March 4th. Your old boss, Chad Millman, whom you mentioned, told me a story about this,

that your piece came in late in the production cycle. and he and the other editors almost decided to just run a portion of it in the print magazine and then tell people to be the rest, to read the rest online. That really would have sucked, wouldn't it? Well, what's interesting is, I mean, that is mostly true. Added detail is that Jay Lubbinger and I were doing it as an e-ticket, and there was a lot of competition between the magazine and e-ticket, and not all of it productive and healthy.

And so when we said we were doing a Michael Jordan story, they knew that. We're sort of like, well, nobody's going to get anything new about Michael Jordan. So they declined to run it. And then it came in, and Rob King ran it, forced Chad Millman to tear up his magazine and run it. So the reason they had to do that was because they literally said they didn't want it before they'd read it.

And then they read it and we're like, and we're told by Rob, who is, you know, I love Rob. And Rob has always been a real champion of mine. And, you know, I live in now a picture of it and texted to Rob, you know, Rob, ordering a champion. And I just love the guy to death. But no, he made Chad do that. And Chad, if you're listening, know that's fucking true.

You send the piece to Jordan's people after it runs. What was his response? his response was how did he find all of that out to which they told him Michael you told him and then that was that they asked to see it early that I wouldn't send it to him obviously you said you'll read it you'll read it when it comes out like everybody else yeah when like you know what that great horace quote you know the same night awaits us all I was at the resident at the end in Bristol Connecticut because I had to go on TV all day to talk about the next day.

And I just remember, like, you know, the fact-checking was really rigorous. The clothes was stressful. And I just remember going, you know, the thing is at the printer. You know what I mean? And, like, I'm just sitting in this hotel room. I'm like, God, I hope I didn't screw anything up. ESPN fact-checkers are fabulous. Rachel Ulrich, who was now one of the big dog editors, ESPN.

She was a fact-checker. She caught the greatest mistake ever made, which I made, which is I misspelled the name Jonathan throughout a profile of Johnny Mansell. That's a big one. So she, yeah, that's a pretty big one. So she caught that. So, like, I slept well, though, and the SECers are on it, you know. But I just, I remember being nervous.

What was your relationship like with Jordan after this came out? Well, I didn't have a relationship with him before it, before it. And I don't really have one now. You know, I sort of think, one of these stories is so invasive. I sort of feel like the unspoken promise is once this gets done to you, you get to be done. Like, I'm not just sticking around trying to be his buddy. I went back to him one time to talk about Tiger, and then I have pitched. I've asked to go Marlon fishing with him and was, I mean, no, that's interesting.

Although this is really cute. When my first daughter was born years later, a package shows up, and it is a tiny pair of Pink Jordan one. than from Michael Jordan. I was going to ask you about the Tiger thing because the scene in that story, which comes out three years later, of Jordan talking about Tiger, was a jaw-dropping moment for me

when I read that piece. Jordan told you, the thing is I love him so much, I can't tell him you're not going to be great again. Michael was interested immediately in talking about his relationship with Tiger Woods? Yes, and I knew what he thought. and so I had to go I had to go back and get it again, you know.

This piece did not make the best American sports writing of 2014 if I remember. That's that motherfucker. Yes, like that guy that did the running book, I'm still pissed at him. It is the only year

that I have not been in that book that I started working for ESPN is that year. Did you write to Glenn Stout or Christopher McDougal and say, what the fuck? No, but Glenn Stout. called me before it was announced.

He was just like, hey, your story's such a slam dunk, and he didn't pick it. And we went back to him and asked him if he was sure. He said yes. And so I just wanted to let you know before he got announced. And then I got asked to be the guest editor, I think, of the next one

or maybe the one. I don't know, I think it might have been the next year. I was the guest editor, maybe two years later. And I feel like that was their mayor call for. Like, hey, sorry, our guy, fuck this up. this story changed your career in any way? I don't know.

I mean, it allowed me to get other people, you know, and I'd written a lot of stories before, but, you know, and profiles of really famous people, but, you know,

he was just on a different level. I mean, one of the things that didn't do that I'm glad is that it didn't turn me into a, a big game hunter. You know, like I still do, I wanted to do Michael Jordan because I had a real question about his life, not because, like, let me just go fall that I could get Michael Jordan.

You know, and I felt that way about Joe Montana. Like, it was a real thing I wanted to know. And so it feels like even when the profiles that I'm doing are about really famous people, Tiger Woods or whomever, it feels like they're flowing from the same sort of journey of curiosity that all of the minority stories flow from. It all feels like every single story. So like, I don't know, I'm glad that I didn't just become. Last one for you, right. You're 46 years old? Is it weird to be almost as old as Michael Jordan was when you wrote this piece?

So unbelievably. How infuriating it must be as an athlete because, you know, I just talked about this with Steve Young, who basically was like, the NFL is so much less sophisticated defensively than it was. He watches games. I could do that. You know, like, I could get the ball where it needs to be, but he just is too old.

And, you know, if you're a writer, if I stopped being so much fried chicken, you know, I could write for 40 more years. Whereas athlete, one day it's just over. I mean, it's just over for Tom Brady today. And he is falling off a cliff. One of the most interesting things about this Montana profile that's coming out next week is that what it really is,

And I wanted it to be this is a profile of the next unlived 30 years of Tom Brady's life. And like, that's really interesting. The Joe Montana knows thing that Brady can't begin to know yet. And at the core of every one of these stories is something I'm legitimately interested in. It's not just... Right, Thompson. Thanks for coming on the press box. Oh, man.

It was my pleasure. God damn. 46, huh? That's the press box. I'm Brian Curtis. Production Magic, as always, by Erica Servantes. A couple of things to put on your press box calendar. On Monday, I'm going to be doing the show from Radio Row in Phoenix,

amidst all the pre-Super Bowl festivities, a.k.a. the selling of avocados and body sprays. We may be the only show in Phoenix who is talking about Donald Trump suing Bob Woodward. Later in the week, I will have another pod with some voices from Radio Row. Some you know, some you might not know. and then Sunday night, David Shoemaker and I are going to be going live right after the Super Bowl

on Spotify Live and later in podcast form talking about the announcers, the commercials, the medianess of the big game. Please join us. Please dial in. Please talk to us over the air. We'd love to have you.

You know there will be more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then.