The Press Box - Politico’s Eugene Daniels on a Fifty-Fifty Race, Kamala Harris’s Underdog Campaign, and Playing College Football

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

Hello, media consumers! Bryan is joined today by Politico’s White House correspondent and Politico Playbook co-author Eugene Daniels to get into the latest on this upcoming election and more, including: Does the Harris campaign really believe they’re underdogs in this race (01:47)? Are they running a “risk-averse” campaign (16:18)? What is it like covering the White House and writing Playbook (21:19)? Leaping from college football to journalism (30:46). Plus, David Shoemaker Guesses the Strained-Pun Headline. Host: Bryan Curtis Guest: Eugene Daniels Producers: Brian H. Waters and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Everybody lies. But most of us don't like to talk about the lies we tell. Until now. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Brian Phillips. In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about their best tales of deception. From changing an entire family history to building an award-winning Hollywood career on a lie. You can listen to Truthless on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts on October 15th. Hello, media consumers.

Welcome to Pressbox. Brian Curtis of the Ringer here, along with producer Eduardo Ocampo, who is filling in for Brian Waters. I met today's guest Eugene Daniels on the floor of the Democratic convention, where people were waiting to take pictures with him. And no wonder, because Eugene is a White House correspondent for Politico, an author of Playbook, and one of the reporters you absolutely need to turn to to understand Kamala Harris's campaign. In other news, Eugene might be the only current White House correspondent with a profile on the Rivals.com football recruiting website. Eugene, welcome to the press box.

I'm right. I'm happy to be here. That is possibly true. I don't think there's a lot of Rivals.com folks in the press corps. That's really. No, none with more stars than you. Yeah. I'll tell you that. A whole different world, my college football days. Oh, my goodness. We will get to that. But I want to start here.

Kamala Harris, if she has said something over and over again on the stump, it is that she is the underdog in this race. Yeah. Does her campaign really think they're underdogs? I think that, I think they feel good. I do think they feel like they're going to win. But I think what they're trying to, show Democrats is like they don't want another 2016.

So I think if you gave them truth serum, they'd say like, you're not that scared, right? Like, we feel like we have the momentum. We feel like the coalition makes a lot of sense, but they're really worried about complacency. And Harris herself has told staff behind the scenes. And we've reported that she says that she's not worried about losing to Trump, even when she was the vice presidential candidate.

she's worried of losing to the couch, right? Like that has been her concern, that people aren't going to come out, that Democrats aren't going to feel excited. So now they have an excited group of Democrats, but it's like persuading them to actually, you know, either send the ballot in or go pack up, get in their cars, go and vote somewhere.

And that's normal, right? You have to do that. But Democrats often have to feel like they're in love with their candidate. That is something that they've always had to do. And so the Harris team is trying to tell, like I think make folks a little bit more scared and be like, remember 2016? You didn't feel good. Democrats, when you woke up,

down that, you know, on that Wednesday and Donald Trump was president-elect. Like, you don't want to feel like that. I think that's their mindset as they're moving as we get closer. We're 25 days from the election. What other than complacency is making the Harris people nervous? I think they are like all the swing states. I think Pennsylvania is one that everyone knows. They kind of like have to win. And so they're always worried about that. Democrats are scared. They're always worried about something. So there's like a long list of things they're worried about. They're worried about black men.

They're worried about young men in general whether or not they're going to come out. Because that's a Democratic party-wide problem. It's not specific to Kamala Harris. You know, they're worried about older people, right? Joe Biden and older white people really loved Joe Biden. And now you're looking at it, young people like Harris more, but then are you substituting one for the other or are you adding, right? And so I think they're worried about that possibility.

subtraction of some of these demographics. And I think, you know, whether they will say it or not, I know there are folks on the campaign who are worried about Michigan and Wisconsin and thinking about Arab Americans and thinking about people who really do not, who despise and are disgusted by what the administration, what they believe the administration is doing and assisting in doing over in Gaza, right? And so they have all of these different elements that are playing that a lot of it's how people feel about her. Some of it's out of her control, which is, I think, a little bit frustrating for them. This is an amazing week to be a nervous Democrat because a reporter would love to talk to you and quote you anonymously about the Harris campaign.

We've heard she's not doing enough interviews. She's not doing enough events. There was a big Politico story about that on Saturday. Which of those criticisms do you hear people around Harris nod at and which ones do they push back? on most ferociously. I think they pushed back on this week, the, the, the, the, the media question, right? Like, what kind of how many interviews she's doing? One, I think they don't think that voters actually care.

I don't know that they're right, but I think that that's, they feel like voters don't actually care about the amount of interviews. I think they feel like they have an unfair comparison because Donald Trump basically only does interviews in friendly spaces, right? And if Harris did that in their estimation, we'd, you know, we'd bring her for that and bring them for that. And they picked up, right? Like, she has done a lot more interviews this week than she has. She took a long time to do any interview, if you remember, right?

The first one was with Dana Bash from CNN, and they didn't get a lot of time. But it took weeks. But their, you know, their reasoning was we were putting together a campaign a couple of weeks, that's fair. But, you know, the more, the less interviews you do, the more in each interview matters, right? And that's not what you want in the last couple of months in a campaign. You want to be doing so much that if you flub one, you have another one in, you know, the next day or even in a couple of hours that it kind of helps erase it, especially in this new cycle. And I think, you know, this week, they say that 20 million voters heard from Rassau Vice President Harris, right? She did The View, Colbert, Howard Stern, the Call Your Daddy podcast.

She is doing Univision, Univision Town Hall. So there's all these. And then you can also look at the voters that they're thinking about 60 minutes. She did 60 minutes. You can see the voters that she's thinking about when doing that and what they're trying to do, right? Why would you do Howard Stern if you're not trying to get to men, right? why would you do this podcast that usually is about like sex and fun and all that when if you if you aren't making sure that young women see you and there's some really interesting stats about whether or not what the people that listen to that podcast and Edison Research found that 70% of women listened to Alex Cooper 76% are under 35.

34% live in the south, 24% of the west, 22 northeast, 20% Midwest, 24% of Republicans, 20% of independence. And so, like, there's a lot of different people that she's trying to gather with that one podcast. And they feel happy about how this week, October 10th, how the media blitz or call it what you want with this week. You've been listening to just about everything Harris has said over the last three plus years. What stuck out about those interviews from this week? I mean, I think she seems just much more comfortable, right? It's different interviewing someone who is the number two than someone who's the number one, right?

And so you're starting to hear and see how she actually feels about a lot of things, right? I think she's opening up a lot more, right? The conversation about her gun, I think is hilarious. Like, it's like, that is not how Democrats talk, right? She's like, I got my block and I will shoot you. Like, that's not how Democrats talk about guns, right? So I think that has been interesting. She has, the way she's talking now matches more with kind of the ways over the last three and a half years, I and other reporters who've had the chance, how it seems like she interacts in off the records, right?

Like when we're on stage at the White House correspondent's dinner, this Harris, then, you know, the interview with Colbert and the interview on the podcast, like that feels more like the person. that you see and hear from when you're doing it without a camera or a recorder present. So it's interesting. I think people are getting a better view of who she is. I think voters deserve that. So I think that's when a lot of reporters complain about the, you know, not doing media things, some of them are just complaining because we all want to interview the candidates. But I think for me, it is largely about, like, the American voters deserve to understand

everything about this person, right? And while she's been vice president for a while, there's so much that we're seeing just this week that voters can glean, like, whether how, why they would want to vote for her, who she is, getting a beer with her, you know, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's interesting because a lot of voters have said they don't know enough about Harris. Right. Right. necessity? Yeah, I think so. And I think it's not just voters. I think she, you know, she, it's, it's, sometimes people don't want you to know everything about them, right? They might not be hiding anything. I think it's just like you, she is a, she's a woman, she's a black woman, she's a prime woman. And so like knowing, people knowing things about you isn't always better when

you're, when you're a woman running for higher office, right? I think that's, there are people around her that feel like that and they feel like it gets twisted and it gets this and it gets that. I also think part of it is like she, you have to kind of figure out who you are, right, as a person running. And you can't do that as vice president, right? It's really hard to do that as vice presidents. And so I think what you're seeing now,

like she's her letting voters in, is still calculator, right? She's still a politician, right? Like people should not feel like they're sitting at home in sweatpants on their count with her, right? Like, that's not what they're getting. They're not getting that unvarnished of a Harris. But I think your policy-wise, you're probably getting something that's more closer to her than it was in 2019.

I think she's much more moderate than her 2019 run presented itself. And I think the kinds of things that she wants voters to know about her really tell you a lot about where we are as a country, right? The gun thing for one, right? You would never have heard a Democrat running as a former law enforcement person. That's not how it works, but it speaks to the issues that voters care about now. What's it like to interview, Harris? The prep is stressful. And the prep is stressful because you have heard about, you may not, I have heard about

all of the ways in which in just normal meetings, if you come to your staffer, you want to be able to drill down a couple more steps when you're asking her a question. and you kind of have to prove, you know, what the hell you're talking about. And it's the same way when interviewing her, right? Like, she's a lawyer and she's like this prosecutor. So, you know, and I'm not a prosecutor. I'm a reporter. And so, like, you spend a lot of time, like, trying to figure out, one,

how she would say something, how she would answer it, and what's the way in which you can switch the question to get something more interesting out of her. So the prep is kind of nerve-wracking, I think. The actual interview, after like I kind of blackout. I got to have people like, people like, how are to go? I'm like, I don't know. What did you think?

You watched it. Like, when we did the NABJ panel sit down. And so it is, I feel a lot of pressure when doing it, which I think is how we should be feeling, right? You, our jobs as journalist is to go in the room that voters can't go in and ask the questions that are on their minds, try to illuminate something, if not make news. And so, like, it feels like I, I pull out of pressure. I think, you know, just working at a place like political puts a lot of pressure on you to be like, find something new. Help, like help the voters hear something new about this person who wants to run the country. And more importantly, you want to be able to push back, right?

Because politicians, you know, some of them lies, some of them obfuscate, some of them dodge. And what you want to do is try to pin them down to get them to say something or to get them to answer the question in the most truthful way. possible, including, like, you know, on, we talked about Gaza when I interviewed her recently, and, you know, she didn't want to say really what the other policy is that she would, a policy that she would change if she were president versus now. There's a lot of reasons she would answer it that way. But the needing, you have to be able to, if you want to be able to push her to try to get an answer, you have to know what the policy is, you have to know the reporting that you've done

and what she's said behind closed doors. And you have to be able to think about that while she's looking you in your eyes, right? And so it is quite that challenge. But, you know, it's an honor too, right? These are people who are the most powerful people in the world. And so, you know, my family's from Buckport, South Carolina and Conway, South Carolina.

So the idea that I would be doing that is, every time I feel the honor of it. Questions she got asked on the view and Colbert was about the difference between a Biden administration and a Harris administration. Right, right. She didn't really have an answer either time. Is that a case of just not having something prepared or does that tell us anything about the relationship between her campaign and the Biden White House? I think it tells you a couple of things. I think it won, sometimes we should just believe them. But maybe that she wouldn't do anything different. Like, maybe she's fine with everything they did.

I have done the reporting and I don't think that's true. Like, I know that she, there are different things that she's wanted to do. So I know that that is likely not. true. But, you know, I've talked to a lot of folks who worked for Al Gore. And when he was running for president, there was so much tension. Well, they had a different issue with a scandal. But there was so much tension between making sure that Gore could run his own race and not piss off Clinton. And you're kind of seeing that too with Harris, right? Like, you have to be able to go into the Oval Office the next day and work with the guy, right? Like, there's only, no matter what a president says, like run your race, you know, if you got to throw me under the bus, do it.

They don't mean that. That's not how these people are wired, right? And so, you know, Biden is very sensitive. And so I'm sure I know they're feeling some of that, right? And so you have to be careful because, like, if you think about Biden running in 2020, when he was kind of saying, like, I was the vice president, not have anything to do with that, right? If he was running in 2016, he'd be saying something different, right? Because you're, you need to prove that you were in the room.

You need to prove that you were a part of the process. but then you also own, you know, if folks feel like it's a mistake, you own that as well. And I think that's what Harris is seeing, but also she may not want to do that much different. But there is an answer to this question. It's like the care economy, right? Like if you look at the policy she has put forward about the economy, doing more permanent child tax credit, fighting more for that kind of stuff, that's an easy, that's why it's a kind of like give me because it's like you actually have a policy that is different than the one that

They have currently. Just say that. But, you know, she is because not they. But she is definitely on Satan. When they're asked that question, she struggles to answer it. Politico's story I mentioned over the weekend painted a picture of a risk-averse campaign. Do you think of this as a risk-averse campaign? I think Harris is risk-averse.

And, you know, it all comes down from the top. And Sherry's kind of has been. I think they feel, risk-a-vers might be, is one way to think of it. I think also, like, just a campaign that knows that every step is. is like precarious. Like they came, like this campaign did not exist in May, right? Like, where to, like, so it's kind of insane. And people can't see, but the bags under my eyes tell the story of this all coming together

very quickly for all of us. So I think they know things can switch on a dime. I think they, you know, they are, she is kind of risk averse. And the reason they're risk ofverse is because they think, you know, they feel like, you know, Donald Trump wins as the end, right? Like, that's how they, that's how they view this. And there are a lot of people who want them to look tougher and meaner,

and she's doing that much more than Biden, right? Biden did not look as much like he was on the office when it was this campaign. But no, they're definitely still, like, you know, a little more careful and calculated risk-reverse than some people are comfortable with, not even just reporters, right? They're like Democrats.

Democrats are like, no, I want to look, see something different and faster and meaner as soon as possible. But, you know, they're running out of time. So we'll see, we'll see if the Biden or the Harris people are right or not. One idea that came to the four after the vice presidential debate was that Tim Walz got the job as her running mate, partly because he was good on TV. And then he was mostly off TV for a few months.

Right. What is the theory behind that? Yeah, you know, I don't know. It's weird, right? They, they have, it's been unclear what they're doing with Tim Walz. I think part of it is they are trying to, they know he's going to get tough questions about these things that he's kind of misspoken about as kind of the way he's put it.

And so I think there's probably a little worry there. I think they also want Harris to be out there more, right? They want, if you have the VP out and the presidential candidate not out, and you're planning to have her out, then we're writing stories about that. And so there's a balance of how much they use him. you know, in 2020, Biden was out a lot more than Harris. And so I think that, like, the vice presidential candidate, even if you choose him because he's good on TV, you still want him to be out, them to be out less than you're a presidential candidate.

And I think that's what they're kind of struggling with right now. Not struggling, but that's what they're playing. That's what they're doing. You never heard any whispers from Harris World, even the outer regions of Harris World. Ooh, you know, I just saw a bad poll from Pennsylvania. maybe we should have talked Josh Shapiro into taking this job? No, and you know why? I think part of it is like you also need, because when this was out, when she started doing

her vice presidential surge, everyone was like, it has to be Josh Shapiro. And I just never thought it was going to be or that it should be. And part of the reason why is, like, Josh, if you pick Josh Shapiro, he's someone who's who just started being governor, right? So it doesn't have a lot to run on. That's one. two, he wants to be president clearly. Yes.

And if you want someone, if you want a vice president who is going to be happy being vice president and like if that's as high as they get, then they'll be fine with that. Right. And if you at least want them to seem that way. And I think, and I know like in their interviews, like Tim Walts told her like, man, this is it. Like I don't, you know, like I'm not, everyone always says that until it's time to run for president, right? Once you get a little taste of power. So it'd be, you know, I don't, if he, if they were to win and he was in, they were in for eight years, I could see him running for president.

But his pitch was, like, I'm good. Like, I just want to do this. Like, I just want to be your number two. And I think that spoke to her more. And frankly, they just got along better. Like, every, all the reporting that I have from, from not just now, but from when they, when they actually had the sit down interviews in her and the VPR on that, that weekend, is that they just bived better. And when they presented the folks that did the vetting, when they presented the options,

they said, we think walls are someone you're going to apply with better. His answers seem more in line with what you want. And also he has something that you need, which is like they think, you know, he doesn't just help him in Pennsylvania, but he helps him in more states than Josh Shapiro might. And also, he's a different person than her. Like, right?

He's not a lawyer. He, like, in Josh Shapiro, like they're both, attorney, former attorneys general, right? They, they both are, you know, kind of coastal folks, right? That's not really what you want to sell in the year 2024, as a set. Let's talk about your career for a second. You told Forbes that after Joe Biden won the election in 2020, you initially weren't looking to write playbook or cover the White House for political. So how'd you wind up doing those jobs? good

managers I mean, I didn't. Like, who would? I guess like when playbook, when Jake and Anna said they were going to leave, you know, they started like working to put this team together.

And I was on the video team. That's the thing, is that I was on the video team at that point. So, and I had written during 2020, I'd covered the election, both as a video producer and as a print writer. But like,

the idea I had in my head was like still partly video-wise and like trying to do this dual role thing. But they came to me first and said, hey, we're putting the White House team together. If Biden wins, we want you to be on the White House team.

And I pitched this job that was like covering new power and all this stuff if Biden won. And they were like, there's no better example of new power than if a black woman is vice president. So we want you to be on the White House team. We want to cover everything, but we

really, you will be our like Kamala Harris whisper and focus on her a lot. I was like, oh God, okay. And like that was stressful enough. And then if I remember correctly, there was a story that came out about who was on the list

for possible playbook authors. And my name was in it. And I was like, what the hell is this? I was like, no one had said anything to me. I was perfectly fine just being a White House reporter. And Carrie Budolph Brown, who is now NBC, she was the editor of Politico at the time, she texted me and said, hey, can you meet at 8 a.m. And I was like, oh my God, I'm getting fired. Because I always said, and I stand by this, if you're going to fire me, fire me before I come to

work, because if I have to come to the office, I'm being real pissed. Like, just tell me, don't come in. I'll stay at home. Keep your computer. And so that next morning, Perry and I want a Slack caller, a Zoom call or whatever. And she was like, we want you to still cover the White House, and we on the White House team, but we also want you to be on Playbook. And she went through these reasons why. And I was like, at first I was like, maybe I, do I really want to do this? Like, it's like so intense and the sleeping schedule is bad.

But the team they put together was really fun and interesting, and I had relationships with Brian and Rachel already. And that is, yeah, I think I just kind of, I was scared, which is when I'm scared, I usually do things. Because I feel like if you're not scared a little bit, then you're probably doing the wrong thing. So I feel good about it. It's worked out. It's exhausting, but it's worked out.

You said this when you got the playbook job. For years, black and brown people, marginalized people have been told, especially in journalism, that their experience, who they are, what they look like, who they love is a bias. So how has your life experience informed the way you write playbook and cover the White House? Yeah. That's so funny. You did your research. I think that it is, no one can tell, there's no editor who can tell me,

like, this is what black people are thinking when I just left my grandma's house in South Carolina, right? Like, I, the thing, the great thing about being able to bring your full self to work is that you know those touch points, right? Like, you know the history and the context of how the communities you're from, engage in the political process. And so when we were talking about whether or not black people were going to leave Joe Biden

in this huge swath, so whether he was even going to win in 2020, I was like, black people are pragmatic. They want the pragmatic guy. And we're right, right? The people that thought that were right. Knowing, like, when you go to talk to black voters, especially, like, they have seen how the way,

the way the media has in the past presented them. And so they're often like nervous to talk to the media. But if I'm coming, you know what I mean? Like it's a little different, right? There's a comfortability there. And so what it gives for news organizations is an opportunity to talk to more people and tell a fuller story about the country and what these voters are thinking. And I mean, like, looking at how black voters have by both Democrats and Republicans

this time around have been seen as a persuasive. voting block, understanding that community is vital to understanding this race. And frankly, understanding race in this country is vital. And the context and the history of it and caring about it is vital to being a political reporter. Like, if you don't think about race, then you're not doing your job as a political reporter because so many of the decisions and so many of the feelings about this country are tied to the race and racism of the past.

You mentioned the playbook schedule. So I think if you're feeding this monster every day, and then I turned on the New York Times' homepage the other day, and I see you and Jeff Mason on a tarmac, Jeff Mason of Reuters, interviewing Kamala Harris, and you're sticking out your recorder there. So what is your daily schedule like?

It depends. It is just like all over the place. If I'm the lead author of Playbook, we do a lot of the work at night, guys, don't tell anybody. But a lot of the work is done at night. So it's like, you know, you're going to bed at like 2 a.m. or 2.30. If it's in election night, sometimes we're just like writing until it's in time. Or if it's a debate night, even.

And so a lot of it's at night. So we'll start kind of later. But then I'm also coming to the White House. I'm doing the WHCA. I'm the president of the WHCA right now. I have a fabulous analyst at MSNBC. So there's a good partnership there. And so it's all day, every day.

But I feel like I'm young. I got no kids. Like I just like it's, you know, I'd only have to like make sure my husband doesn't leave me. And as long as I can do that at home, like not needing a lot of, I don't need a lot of sleep right now. I know that sounds kind of crazy. But it's hard. It is like it is, you know, you miss a lot of things in life, right? Like, but you have to, what I've been able to do is kind of mold my life around my work, which apparently isn't helpful.

a lot of people say, but like, you know, I can go to dinner with my friends as long as they know, like, oh, I'm going to have to step away and yell at the White House for a second, right? Like that, like, just like knowing that and having people around you that kind of accept that is the key to this ridiculous schedule. You mentioned your grandmother. You told Forbes that she got you interested in politics. Yeah, so that's my other grandmother. So I have one that's still live.

That's Ruby Brown. That's when I go and visit in Bucksworth, South Carolina, who's fabulous and loves politics as well. But as a kid, the one who really got me interested because my Nana, Ruby, lived in New York. And so when we'd go visit South Carolina, that's where everyone else is. My dad's mother was there. And so her name was Katie, Daniels.

And she was just, like, obsessed with politics. Like, her whole family had always been, and she kind of imbuted and everybody. And I'd come to her house and she'd be, like, watching the news all day long, You know what I mean? And so I got obsessed with that, and she talked about politics. And my grandfather, who I never got to meet, was a Baptist preacher.

And when you're a preacher in a swing state, you're often also someone, especially during the 60s, you are someone who's working on voting and who is talking to politicians a lot. And so they were just like in that world. There's a picture of them meeting Jimmy Carter, right? because the, you know, the governor brought him to, like, if you want black community here, you better meet these two people. There's a picture of my grandmother at the fish fry, right, with the congressman, with Clyburn. And he remembered her, right? So it's like, I've always been obsessed with politics, and politics has always been obsessed with it. And my family has always been obsessed with politics.

And so I interviewed Clyburn. and before the interview, his team showed him the picture. And he was like, oh, yeah, that's Katie Daniels. I was like, what? Like, what? First of all, in saying that he knew, I didn't tell them her name. That would be good staff work otherwise. But he just, like, knew who she was.

And so what it spoke, what it speaks to is my family always, it still does understand the importance of politics and like what it tells you about where this country is and what it can do and what it fails to do often. So I think that the, she, you know, and she, it's really funny because having this MSVC contract and being on TV with them all the time, like just the idea of her, having, she didn't get a chance, but had she, we know that she would have been, I think, the way my aunt's put is very annoying because she'd be like, Anthony's on TV. My middle name's Anthony. Lou, Anthony's on TV. Turn now. And they were like, I'm at work, right? So it's like, you know, she would have been, I think she would have been quite.

In high school in Texas, you were a 6 foot 3, 240 pound defensive end. Two stars from rivals. What was the recruitment of Eugene Daniels like? That's funny. So I got 10 Division 1 scholarship offers. And I ended up choosing Colorado State University because I felt kind of at home there. So I played football there as well. the recruitment process for football was so weird.

I also was like in the closet. So it was like, you know, there was a lot of struggling there. But like mostly it was just the exciting. It was like really exciting, right? It was like, oh my God, I don't have to pay for college.

Like, because I hadn't really grown up. When I was growing up, I wanted to be a lawyer. And so like I didn't think that I was going to play football in college. Like I didn't, like there wasn't, it was like someone of other people do that.

And I played football in Texas. And so we were at, we were a 5A school, which is as big as the as big as the school gets which means who often have, if not a better football team, you're playing people that are better. And it's interesting because it's a part of your life where other people have so much control over it.

Like you don't get to dictate the schools that are interested in you, right? You don't get to, you know, you only get the last, the final choice and it is actually a really good preparation for life, which is like so much of the stuff that ends up impacting you is done by other people and you learn to not stress about other people's opinions

or like how much someone or doesn't, how much someone likes or doesn't like you because that decision like all that is out of your hands. It's a weird, a weird part of my 35 now. So I think the first, I must have been like 16 when I first started realizing

people were interested in me and it's just like such a strange, like it's a really weird. That makes me sound really old, but it is a, it is a strange process to go through as a kid because you're also like making the decision that impacts your entire life and every kid is doing that right when they go to college. But there's something about like also deciding that like you need to go to this college and these people are going to have control of your actual full schedule from beginning to end. There's no freedom. But you do get your scholarship paid. You get the scholarship. So that is. There's a benefit for sure.

And it's before your junior year at Colorado State. This is 2010 when you injured your shoulder. I did. I told my, I actually tore my labrum my second year. So my redshirt freshman year. I tore my labrum. And I just played with it the entire time.

And so they had a meeting and they were like, well, you won't be able to like lift your hands over your head if we go through another season kind of thing. or like hold they were like you won't be able to hold your kids and at the time I was like oh of course I would have kids um no not so much but like I am able to hold my hand over my head um and so I you know you have the surgery and that kind of ends ends the thing for for me and that you know I don't regret it and I needed the surgery and it sucked but to not play that you know before five years um but then I got to do more journalism I could do more student media and so I do wonder where I would have been had to have been had to have been had that not happened. Probably not talking to you right now. What was the leave from football to journalism? I mean, it was really a leap from like wanting to be a lawyer to journalism.

So I really wanted to be a lawyer growing up. Like people would be like, what do you want to do? I want to be a lawyer. They're like, not a firefighter or something. And I was like, no. And I was in a, and I want to be a lawyer and a politician and the first black president. That was what I would tell people, which like, of course, the hubris of, you know, They're preteen. That's what you tell people.

But I had taken some courses that was like, it was called the politics of special interest groups. And there was so much of what lobbyists were getting our leaders to do and what some of them chose to do in order to be politicians. And I just like couldn't see myself doing that. And so I had this kind of like mini panic attack and I had taken one journalism course. And it was like kind of as an elective. And the woman who taught it, Pam Jackson, I just went to her office. And I was like, oh, my God, what am I going to do?

Because we hit it off. And she was like, maybe you don't want to be a powerful person. Maybe you want to hold powerful people accountable. And I was like, oh, wait. I do, I guess. And so that kind of clicked. And I went to, you know, changed my major, like, in my second year. I remember the last second semester of my second year.

and went to student media and I did like everything I could in student media. Like I was a, I went to the newspaper and I did a weekly column, like an advice column. That may or may not have been more of us playing an act, the two of us. I did a, I did the like CTV, which was like the news. I was an anchor and reporter. I had a radio show. I wrote for the magazine. I kind of did it all because I was just obsessed with when I kind of want to do something.

I dive head first. I'm starting to see a pattern here. I dive head first into being busy doing it. I think that really, the student media aspect ever prepped me for this schedule more so than in. And after college TV in Colorado Springs? TV in Colorado Springs. What was that experience like? It was good.

I had gone to, I'd gone to. I'd gone there as an overnight producer. So I produced the 4.30 a.m. to 6 a.m. hour of the news that day. So I'd go into the office at 10 p.m. and start working. And it was weird because no one was there with us. So it was just like me and this other 20-something. And it was in Colorado Springs, just an 80-something market, which is pretty high. And we had no supervision.

And so we just like come in and just like put the show together from beginning to end. and it was good. It taught me a lot about news judgment, right? And trusting my instincts. You're also in charge of, like, where the reporters go that are on the show. And then I ended up being, like, an MMJ-ish person. So, like, video. And what I was trying to do is move into being a reporter full time

and, like, you know, not have to hold the camera so much. And I went through the process that everyone does. like you do voice coaching and, you know, editing and whatever, but I had already done that because I've been a videographer for a bit. And after I was all done, the voice coach was like, oh, my God, you're ready. The other reporters were like, oh, my God, you're ready. The anchors were like, we can't wait to toss to you more. And they said, I went to the general manager.

I won't say his name, but I went to the general manager for our last meeting. And he looked me in the eyes and said, I think I didn't. I just think your voice is too black to be a full-time reporter in Colorado Springs. And this was in 2013. It was been 2013, 2014. So it was like a completely different world than it is now. Like I was, and I'm a completely different person. Now I would have said something else.

But I just kind of said, okay, and walked out. Like, I just wasn't sure what to do, right? I'd never heard, heard a lot of racist things. I had never heard them in, like, the workspace in that way. And so that really threw me. But I decided to leave local news and I went to this place called Newsy, which was a digital outlet. Newsy, I covered the election, a 2016 election at Newsy. They moved a group of us to Washington, D.C.

And so I came to Washington, D.C. And then political post me while I was at Newsy here in D.C. So it really worked out. And it looks like my voice isn't too black. for television because I do it a lot. So that's, I feel like I, I feel good about the decisions that I had to make because of him.

But it was, it was quite something. It was quite something. Yeah, to say the least. Last question for you, Eugene. After the 2020 election, you go to the White House as a correspondent. You become a playbook writer. So what do you want to do after this election?

You know, what I've learned is to stop trying to guess so much about what's next. I think I'm, like, I'm happy doing, you know, what I'm doing. I'm excited to cover whatever. the next president, whoever that is, whether it's President Kamala Harris or President Trump again, I think that the first year of an administration is kind of the most interesting. That's when they have their most political cachet. But I think I only have three things when I'm thinking about staying at a place or leaving a place that I have in mind. It's one, does it feel like I'm doing really important work?

to the work that pushes me and makes me think differently and stresses me out, which I think is good. Two, do I get to work with really interesting people who are smart and editors who make me a better reporter and friends who make me a better person? And three, do I feel like I'm getting paid what I'm worth? And as long as I have those things, I'm happy. And, you know, I have those things political. And I think the, I have stopped trying to plan my life as,

much because most of that I don't have time to. So it's better to just kind of take things, take things as they come and as if and as opportunities come to find the ones that scare me and jump if I can. All right, Eugene Daniels, you're going to read him in Politico's playbook and don't get too mad at him when he walks out of dinner to yell at the White House. Eugene, thank you for coming on the press box. Thanks so much. It's so much fun. All right, it's time for the second weekly edition of David Shoemaker guesses, the strained pun headline. Yeah.

Monday's headline about the vice presidential debate was Veni VD Vancey. Today's headline comes to us from Josh J. Rousalmi, who has a press box campaign button coming his way. It's from the UniWatch website, David. people watching the baseball playoffs have seen something funny. Batting helmets have an ad on them. Yeah. It says Strauss. That's not Washington Post reporter Ben Strauss trying to get his content out there in the world.

No, that's a German apparel company. But the important part for you is this is an ad we are seeing everywhere. Yeah. What was UniWatch's strained pun headline? Strauss universe like a ad we're seeing omnipresent

forget Strauss just an ad we're seeing everywhere an ad we're seeing everywhere an avoidable ad ad nauseum there we add nauseum oh thanks for that Brian

that is the press box I'm Brian Curtis production magic by Eduardo Ocampo. Thank you, Eduardo. Folks, as you heard me say, there are 25 days until the election, and we got some big episodes of the press box coming up. Next Thursday, October 17th, Jasmine Wright of Notice. Another reporter has a very deep knowledge of Kamala Harris in her campaign.

I cannot wait to pick Jasmine's brain and ask about her career as well. And then October 24th, making his press box debut, and picking up just my opinion where Sean Fennessey left off, Chris Brian is going to be on this podcast. Chris Ryan, folks, it is going to be fantastic. By the way, please keep sending me fantastic ideas for this show, funny pun headlines, funny, overworked Twitter jokes, and you just may be the recipient of a press box 24 campaign button.

I sent a bunch out this week. I've got another stack forming here on my desk. I would love to send you a button. send me a note at the press box pot or an email, Brian.curtis at the ringer.com. Shoemaker joins me Monday. And you know we will have more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then.