The Press Box - Scammer Season Never Ends | Jam Session

Episode Date: March 20, 2019

Elizabeth Holmes is back in the news after the premiere of the HBO documentary about Theranos (4:33). The college-admissions scandal might be the greatest celebrity scam story of the century (13:16). If you want to get back at your ex-wife, a 42-foot-tall photograph of you with your new wife might work (29:34), and we celebrate J.Lo and A-Rod’s engagement (33:07). Hosts: Juliet Litman and Amanda Dobbins Read more about Harry Macklowe’s photographs here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. March Madness is here, and to help you with your bracket, make sure you listen to one shiny podcast with Mark Titus and Tate Frazier. Also, be sure to check out the Ringer's YouTube channel to watch Tate and Titus build their bracket and break down every matchup on their selection show, as well as Roger Sherman, who offers his three Cinderella picks for the NCAA tournament. You can find those at YouTube.com slash The Ringer. Damn session. I'm Juliet Litman.

I'm Amanda Dobbins. We've got scandals to discuss. We really do. How exciting. I was obviously we'll be discussing the college admissions bribery scandal that has ensnared Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin. Yes. A lot more glee, it seems to be in Lori Lofman's plight than Felicity Huffman,

which I think is interesting we can discuss. And yeah, there's just a lot to dive into, if we will. There's also J-Lo and A-Rod finally engaged. Yeah, that's true. I have one more scandal. We didn't discuss this. This is like a live throwing a wrench in the... Cool.

I want to revisit Elizabeth Holmes. Oh, sure. And I really specifically want to talk about the discussion of Elizabeth Holmes's voice. Let's start there. You want to start there? Wow. Okay. Why not?

Wow. This is so exciting. This is how the podcast magic works, folks. I recently sent an article but didn't read to my friend. From BuzzFeed, I believe. The headline was, will we ever tire of discussing Elizabeth Holmes? And it's a great question. My friend, I also think didn't read it, but just responded, no.

Yeah. And there's so much fascination around. Ontario. Also, is that movie ever coming? Darren Aronovsky? Oh, that's true. Was it? No, I think it's Adam McKay who's doing it. Oh, is it? It's Adam McKay, but with Jennifer Lawrence. And I've Jennifer Lawrence accepted it while she was dating Darren Aronovsky. So I understand. Yeah, I think it is in the works. Okay. Well, she also got engaged, so she perhaps on personal, on a personal lane right now. Elizabeth Holmes is like really in right now. Yes. And that's partially because there was a documentary direct by Alex Gibney. Yes.

based on the reporting in the Wall Street Journal and Invenity Fair and John Cario's book that came out this week. And there also was a podcast about it as well, also based on his reporting. Yeah. Does he get royal? Does John Cario get royalties on all these projects? I think we would have to ask him. It is a really interesting moment in terms of scam media. And we should talk more about this as we also talk about the college admission scandal, which was ready-made.

But, you know, it is kind of like the fire festival doc thing where the first. wave is all of the investigative reporting. And then now you get a podcast and a documentary and like all of the blog posts and coverages that come with the second wave of journalism or projects about it. So it is kind of, and, you know, the scam thing is ongoing. And it becomes a meta-narrative about the thing, which is kind of where we are. It's sort of funny. I think for people like you and me who've worked in digital media for a long time. Yeah. There used to be such an incredible stigma against aggregation. And

like that was a major critique of like the Huffington Post and of BuzzFeed and other early big traffic websites that they were just aggregated or they don't do anything. But it's just amazing how much digital media across platforms and media themselves

is basically aggregation. Yeah. In general. So much of Elizabeth Holmes economy is not original reporting. I mean, which is also right here. Like we're part of as well. That's true because there is, you know, people just want to discuss it and parse different parts of it. It means a lot of different things to different people. And so you know a story is really good when it can support that level of aggregation,

right? And that's when these things blow up because there are so many different ways to talk about it and people are so fascinated. Yeah, and so many ways in. The Elizabeth Holmes thing is still amazing. Just the basic fraud and the basic lying that was involved and how many people bought into it. Totally. And she had several very important enablers at the company at Theranos. To your point, we've all kind of known that. That's all been documented. And John Cario book is really, really exhaustive in this sense. So I brought it up because in conjunction with the recent documentary, and this is pretty obvious when you're talking about a documentary, a lot of people have been talking about her voice.

Yes. Which, can we just play a clip of her voice? This is what happens when you work to change things. And first they think you're crazy, then they fight you. and then all of a sudden you change the world. Very strange. Sounds like a joke. So it's not real.

And that's the thing. This is well documented in John Carrey's book is that she would use this voice for interviews and it's like not real. And it's, I mean, it is essentially like the mustache and glasses thing that you put on in terms of fakeness. It's amazing. But because it's a documentary and because her voice is featured prominently in it in a way that, you know, is not in a book, people have been talking. a lot about this with good reason. And then, of course, it segues into, should we talk about a woman's voice and... Sure. Vocal Frye. Yeah. And when it's when we critique women who talk in public, which, you know, you and I are no strangers to. Sure. Which has just been fascinating to me

how the economy of a scandal and primarily a woman in a scandal moves so quickly. It's true. Because now we're to the backlash of like, we probably shouldn't be worried about her voice. We should be worried about the fact that she thought. She lied about saving the world with her blood testing technology that didn't work. Anyone who's had blood tests, had blood drawn, like, more than three times. If they, like, heard about this, would be like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's, like, so crazy. If you, how, it's just ridiculous to be that people, like, a pinprick, one drop could be enough.

Right. But back to the actual point about talking about her voice, it's interesting. I think it's a credit to her scam, that that's kind of the entry point for. sexism in many ways with her because she also had like this relationship with one of her employees that I'm surprised is not discussed more, which I guess I'm happy is not discussed more in some weird

way. Right. And it's almost like she was so good at what she was doing that it's hard to be sexist with her and hard to like just sort of chop a lot, just sort of like cut a lot of this down to very tired sexist tropes. It's kind of like a weird inversion. So to be clear, to be good at lying and perpetrating a fraud against the public. Yeah.

And not good at being an entrepreneur who is saying. Yeah. I just wanted to be fair. To be a good scammer. But like, is she a good scammer? Is it a testament to her? Is it a testament to how gullible we all are? Because this voice, I mean, come on, fam.

You're not supposed to make fun of people, but I just couldn't. It sounds like she, like, didn't have a voice alterer, so she just kind of decided to wing it or something. It's very strange. Yeah, and I guess, although I suppose you're not, it's not like we're, I suppose it's not like we should have known because she was being supported by so many other institutions and you're not supposed to criticize someone's voice. So, especially a woman's voice. So I guess maybe in the context it all sounded believable and added to her general, like, eccentric inventor vibe, which she certainly had. You know, she has the uniform.

she has the hair, which is definitely a choice. Yeah, she modeled herself after Steve Jobs, so she wore like the Black Turtle necks and sort of tried to be the austere and driven Silicon Valley CEO that she had in her mind. Right. I think it just, it makes me a little nervous because now in retrospect, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, we all should have known. This is a real joke because that voice is ludicrous and her whole persona is pretty fake. You can kind of see through it now.

But that I worry that everyone will then start to focus on the external attributes, particularly of women in public as a way to not give people credit where they're due, because Elizabeth Holmes ruined it for everyone. Sure. Which she also did by making up a fake technology and taking a lot of money. She ruined it for everyone on a number of levels. When you read his book or listen to the many podcasts about this, the red flags are so obvious.

Yeah, I know. That it's just like, wait, why did anyone else intervene here? Well, you know, and I do wonder, you want to kind of those people in your own life, right, where there are always people who are hustling and it's like, hmm, this seems a little weird or not even weird, but it's just like this is a person who is like clearly gunning for attention, clearly gunning for success. Yeah. And some parts of it seem a little off or a little fake or a little, it's not how you might

choose to do it if you're trying to live a quote authentic life. Right. But in a dating experience, you're just like, okay, whatever, I'm just going to try to ignore this or I'm going to sidestep it and just not like, I'm going to try to engage as little as possible with this and just move on with my life. And I do wonder how many people are like, hmm, this seems like a problem, but it ain't my problem. Not mine. Yeah, not my. It really just seems like a not my problem to explode into infinity. Also, so much of Silicon Valley is like these like big ideas If you can pull them off, that's amazing. But it's kind of like an entire economy of speculation.

And so it's, I think, easy to, not easy, but scam. It seems more right for scamming than some other places. And I say that someone lives in Los Angeles, a city full of scam artists who were just trying to convince you of one con or another. It's very true. I think in many ways, if she hadn't picked such a scientific scam, she could have gone forever. Like, this is the problem, right? You can't scam when science is involved because at some point the science is going to fail. But otherwise, it was a pretty effective experiment in myth-making and self-creation.

Yeah, she did a great job until she did it. Yeah. Until John Carrey who came along. How long do you think that we're going to be in the Elizabeth Holmes economy? Well, how long would you say it's going on so far? Like, there's this fresh wave that's probably about six weeks old. Yeah. But she's been, I think it's been like the entire time I've lived in L.A.

She's been like a person of interest. Certainly there was a Vanity Fair article that we discussed years ago. That we discussed early in Jam session and tremendous stuff. Yeah. And so that's almost three years ago now. Yeah. I think also, and this is a good segue into part two, but we really are in the scam economy to the point that I as an editor, I'm kind of like a little tired of all the pitches that are like, and in the era of scams, what does it say about whatever?

Which, you know, it is true that there are a lot of things and they are getting a lot of attention, but we are really everyone's latching on to like, it's the time of scammers. And Andy King, the guy from the Fire Fest Doc on Netflix, who was like willing to give the blowjob, he has become like a major, like, celebrity in L.A. I've heard of like several people being like, yeah, I saw him around and he like ever wanted to take a picture with him. Yeah. So it's a weird time in the scam economy.

Well, it makes sense, right? At any time when you feel like institutions are failing, which institutions are always failing us, but it is a particularly acute moment. Less confidence than ever. And I think also particularly for millennials who feel that no institution was ever built to serve them. I get it. It does make sense in the moment that the scammers would become heroes. What's the previous scam era? Like, what predates this, this moment?

In terms of scammers or celebrating scammers? I think just scam. I guess who are some of the great scammers of popular history? And also, like, in our lifetime, is there like an analogous scam moment? Because I'm actually not sure that there is. Well, I mean, I guess like Millie Vanilli is one. Yeah, I think that there is certainly... I do think a lot of it's tied to Silicon Valley culture and how it's, like, really easy to peddle an idea that's, like, then ultimately, like, a big nothing.

Yeah, I'm trying to think, and this veers in a dad history mode. Sure. You know, like, I'm sure that there is a dad out there who maybe listens to Jam Session, who's just like, well, I'd love to tell you about the Watergate era and how public faith in institutions eroded and yada, yada. If only we were living in Watergate, Trump would be out by now. I know, it's true. It's true. But, I mean, obviously there are a lot of similarities there. There's some, like, kind of offshoots of this, like, other, like, now, like, there's several famous grifters that also are kind of.

Oh, right. Because there's Anna Delvey. Yeah. There's just a lot of... Grift is also in and think they go together, basically. Of course. And I do think that the popular conception of the grifter has also changed. Like, I just think that there's a little bit more...

There's a weird, like, a lure to it now. Oh, yeah. That makes more sense to me because those are just people trying to work a system that doesn't work. Yeah, totally. And, like, social media plays into that a lot. Yeah. It's just been a really good year, really good 12 months for grifters and scam artists. I mean, let's talk about the greatest.

scam story of the century. Absolutely. This one is amazing. The amount of Shaden Freud and just general public amazement and delight at the details of the college admissence scandal has been quite notable. What's your favorite detail that's come to light? Well, I just can't believe they showed up at Felicity Hoffman's house with a guns drawn at 6 a.m. I mean, I can because what she did was illegal.

And I think we've all had a lot of fun at the expense of. these people, and I think that we sort of should continue to because it is amazing, but they're also cheating a lot of people out of college. And it is, I mean, it is just so wealth and privilege and like the inequality of America on display. I'm sorry to be your sociology professor, but like, sure. There it is. So that's all real. And these people are making literal a whole system of privilege and getting people into colleges that happens on many levels that are. It happens on many levels that considered legal. So this is just like the worst example of a very common thing. But it is still like very funny that it's not funny. It is funny. You know what? It's funny that like a desperate

housewife was arrested in her home at gunpoint. Totally. And also it is funny. Also the stakes are kind of like so low in a weird way because all these people are rich enough that they can buy access in other ways. So the fact that they like were buying access to college, particularly still a lot of them in California where there's a phenomenal use. UC system. So like worst case scenario, you go to a UC school, you're walking away with a great education. It's true. And so it's just sort of the hubris and also the value, the value system on display is like so insane. To me, I'm less offended by the like to getting of spots in college and like taking like the opportunity away from other people as I am what it says about

like the deep desire to make sure your kid can go to USC or Georgetown or Wake Forest, more to be able to say that they go there than for any other reason. Yeah, and to me, they're part of the same thing. And, you know, I don't know how many literal spots are taken away. Sure. But if you can quite literally bribe your kid into college. Sure. And that's the only thing that's illegal, but donating a building to a college, legal.

Yeah. Hiring a tutor. Legal. You know, sending your kid to a school where there's a college counselor who can, there are just so many legal ways that if you have enough money, your kid has a chance at a college education. Not to say, then you go to college and are saddled with debt unless you have a parent like one of these parents who can pay for it. So it just, it is, it is like the cartoon version of all of the ways in which the college system is like deeply unfair and does keep a lot of people out of it. But it is also at the same time to these people what the college system is about is not

education, but prestige and buying their way into things so that they can keep their social position and financial position in the world and in America and that it's allowed for the most part for that to happen. I think you also, you hit the nail in the head by, you know, it's a lot about like the hubris of it too. Mm-hmm. And it's just some of the things they were purchasing is ridiculous. Also, it seems like Lori Laughlin may have gotten some bad deals here.

It's a lot of discrepancy between how much people paid for various. services. It's really true. And accolades on their resumes, which I find hilarious. Also, the fact that that for her daughter being on the crew team was such a major point of contention, I think, is really funny. I don't know why, but that's like

unto itself, such like an erudite thing. A major point of contention. Like she paid for her to make it seem like she's on the crew team. Yeah. That she never rode crew. Well, so we've only really talked about the parents part of this, but there is also a college part of it. And it is

funny that almost all of the, it's not funny, but it's not ha ha funny. How about that? That's what I mean going for it. It's not like ha ha funny, but it's a little amusing that all of the sports that are involved in this because one of the ways in which the parents bribed or got their kids in was by the middleman, Rick Singer, bribing college coaches. But not just college coaches, they are almost, they're tennis coach, sailing coach, water polo, crew, which are sports they require, lot of money to entry. Yes. Right? And so it's just already at such a laughable, elitist level. I know. It just feels like it should be a plot on Desperate Housewives of the O.C. or something like that. There's also one thing here. It was shocking to me that colleges like Yale

and Georgetown are not doing any fact-checking in terms of these applications, which, you know, they admit a thousand students a year at least. It is a lot, but that you can just put whatever on your college education and no one's committing any resources at these extremely well-funded schools to be like, hmm, maybe we should check that out. Yeah, I know. Didn't really occur to me ever. It's similar to how publishing companies don't fact-check books. Yeah, it's true. It's really weird. It's like just invest in someone to make sure that's true or check a reference or something like that. Ask for photos. Picks or it didn't happen. That kind of thing. Although some people did in fact create the picks and spent a lot of money buying water polo equipment to then like stage water, which is hilarious.

That's genuinely funny. Just incredible. And someone made a rowing photo on like a rowing machine in their basement. God bless. You know, the number one lesson is like, like don't cheat. Don't lie on your college application. But I can't believe that it didn't occur to anyone. Like maybe we should just follow up on this.

Maybe we should see whether this person ever played in a USDA tennis tournament. I don't know. It's also just like people who paid this guy are so lazy. I mean, I guess it's like so obvious. It's not even worth mentioning. But I don't know. In high school, it's not that. hard to pad your resume, like just do a couple of things and put them on there.

Well, so that's the, let's talk about the kids. Sure. Because none of the kids have been charged because for the most part they, quote, didn't know. Right. And it is a lot about a recurring theme, especially with Lori Laughlin and Olivia Jade, who we're going to talk about. Yes. But it's just that the kids don't care. They don't want to try it all.

Yeah. They just like literally Olivia Jade didn't fill out her college applications. They don't want to do anything. of the work or like not interested in school. There is now... Hard pass. Yeah, there's a now iconic video of Olivia Jade being like, as you guys know, I'm not really into school.

Incredible. It's like, fine. Then why did your parents pay $500,000 to get you into school? Especially when you have a flourishing influencer career without school? Totally. So she's an influencer. Open yourself up for a lot of jokes and memes. Yeah.

And now she's losing a lot of her sponsors as a result of this scandal. And I personally don't understand why. Like, what has changed about Olivia? via jade in the last 10 days. I agree with this, mostly. I mean, I know what has changed, which is now that, like, her mother is implicated in a massive fraud scandal that was about her. And also, she was allegedly on the USC president's yacht at the time that her mother

was arrested. And president of the board, Rick Caruso's yacht. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's, yeah, it was because I guess, you know, he was, she was on Rick Caruso's yacht when this went down, and Rick Caruso's, like, the patron saint of my life. So very exciting crossover. But it's also like, she doesn't seem to be totally.

She's presented herself as a vapid Instagram influencer before. Right. And she continues to do that now. And I don't know why that affects her sponsorships. Honestly, like her sponsors, if you're so offended by this, like maybe should have been offended by who she was before. I'm just saying I don't think the kids should take any of the key. Most of them aren't. But even someone like her, I'm just like, I don't know what has.

has changed. She is, she's even more who we thought she was. You made the good point that her, the actual people who are being influenced by her. Yeah. Are probably not, they probably don't care. Like deep in the complaint. They may not even know. Exactly. They haven't read everything, though she was then targeted by other people on Instagram. So her Instagram comments are like a mess now. Yes. And many other rich kids are, are mad at the ones who are giving them a bad name. Yes. Like they've like, there's a few who are calling, calling, calling out their brethren of other L.A. rich kids and children of celebrities. Yeah, can I read this John Owen Lowe, son of Rob.

I love Rob La. Like, absolutely love. Yes, who is who took to the same day. This is the other thing. Shout out to kids. It only takes them hours to get it on the subtreets. Incredible. It's a thread.

But the first is I studied for months for the SAT twice, sometimes three times a week, ton of practice tests, blah, blah, blah, blah. you know, the amount of stress kids put into that to potentially lose a spot to someone unfairly is horrible. And then he's like, and let me say, I'm incredibly grateful that I had the privilege and opportunity to have a tuner and to afford practice test programs. A lot of kids don't. And then he literally just posted a picture of him at Stanford graduation with still proud of this achievement. Happy for everyone out there who earned their accomplishments and really sad for those who were never allowed the opportunity. This is amazing.

I'm Roblo's son and I earned my spot at Stanford and how dare all these other people not. Which, you know. Impressive. Congrats to Roblo's son. It's, it's. College is a dirty game. It's not a meritocracy. Yeah.

It's sad, but true. Jared Kushner went to Harvard. He deserved it? Probably not. I don't even think we need the probably on this one. But it is fascinating. I think we'll be talking about this for a very long time. Here's the other thing I want to ask you.

Okay. How many more operations like this do you think are out there? So many. Right? So many. That's the thing because I just feel like Felicity Huffman has a lot of options to choose from when she's trying to get her kids into school. Oh, definitely. Right?

She didn't even try that hard. She didn't even pay that much. 15,000. That's true. Yeah, it's a lot of. Just to arrange the tests. For those, for her, I mean. Yeah.

And then they opted not to arrange the test for the second daughter. Right. Maybe I thought she was smarter. Yeah. How do you feel about Bill Macy not being named in the complaint, but Felicity Huffman being arrested at dawn? I think that marriage laws should apply to, like, family crimes as well. Like, I feel like it's very unlikely she acted alone, though perhaps she did. And it's like, if you have to share your money, you should also have to share the sentence.

Or the crime. Okay. So we definitely know she didn't act alone because he is on the tape recorder talking to this guy. Yes. So I suppose the theory about why he's. not named and wasn't arrested is because they didn't have enough evidence whether it was like actual wire trans, money transfers or whatever that you actually need to charge someone. But he's definitely involved.

I think that I agree, I don't know whether I agree about this. It should be. I will say on the other hand, like for the kids, it would be nice if they didn't have one parent in prison. Assuming you should go to prison, which I doubt. Right. I think that's true. It just seems like in this case he actually was involved. I don't know whether people in marriages should have to share crimes.

Like, I mean, I'm just thinking self-preservation-wise here. I'm also, frankly, a little alarmed that I just gave away half my money when I signed a marriage contract, but whatever. Different for a different day. Among you and your husband, I think you see more likely to commit a crime now. So maybe he should be more concerned. That's probably true. I also thank you. I actually take that as a compliment, so thank you so much.

You're so welcome. I think that basically people should be held responsible for their actions. And in this case, it does seem like Bill Macy was also involved. Very tough for me as he's on perhaps my favorite show, ER, as a kind of moral begin. I can't believe them, too. Lori Loughlin, the jokes just tried themselves about Aunt Becky and everything. But those two, they really see. We just were recently discussing their home and architectural digest.

Like, how did we go from architectural digest to here? I thought they were beyond this in their lovely Colorado home, but I guess not. No. I don't understand. And I'm not a parent, but I guess if I felt that my child didn't have a good chance of getting into a good school, I might go to great lengths. But I probably would just, like, pay a tutor. The other thing I wanted to mention is this is much more common in sports. Like John Kyle Perry famously helped Derek Rose find someone to take the SATs for him.

Right. And so the absurdities and hypocrisies of the college system are many. That is absolutely true. And that's why I think that this is the first of many. Oh, yeah. I don't think that this is the last college admission scandal that we'll see. involving a famous person. All the rich finance people of New York City are not involved.

Like, there's not like something happening there. Exactly. That just seems completely. I mean, it just seems like these networks are everywhere and these people just got caught and got caught first. Yes. And I assume other people will get caught because as we have noted, the thirst for scams and scams exposed in America very high right now. It's true. At least on a extracurricular basis, not actually in like politics or anything in business or anything that matters.

Only love to take scams. Yeah. We get more celebrity. to talk about. First, let's talk about our sponsor Hotel Tonight. This winter is a great time to check at Hotel Tonight. Whether you want to take a spontaneous ski trip or escape to a warm beach, Hotel Tonight makes it easy to book a room with one of their last minute deals. There are tons of empty hotel rooms out there just waiting to be booked. Amanda, where do you want to go? You know me. I'm a warm person. Just go to Hawaii.

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last minute bookings. You can play things by ear or use Hotel Tonight to book in advance. when you join their H.T. Perks program, the more you book, the better the deals get. So to start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels, go to Hotel Tonight.com or download the app now. We're going to talk about J-Lo and A-Rod and also some great recent celebrity photography. But first, I meant to tell you that I read a daily mail article, speaking of aggregation. Wow. About the book Kushner, like whatever that new Kushner book is. Oh, about Carly.

Yeah, about Carly. Yeah, I read this too. About Carly and Josh. Yeah. So the Cushners hate Carly Clause, per the day. mail about this book. And it says that the Kushner family tried to get rid of her. They referred to her as a Shiksa, which is a derogatory term for a non-Jewish woman. It's a Vanka. Yes. Who refers to who was formerly a Shixir herself. So they didn't let her come to family events. And the wedding is seen, the Josh and Carly wedding is seen as like a fuck

you to the Kushner parents because it wasn't like a big society event. And it was like, it was like private and tasteful and therefore considered a fuck you to his parents, which is just incredible. And the ire for Carly Clause just made me like her more. And it made me like Josh more. Me too. It's his own man. You know what was not mentioned in the entire Daily Mail article, which is about how much the Cushner's hate her, is that Charles Cushner spent 14 months in federal prison for

like various illegal activities related to real estate and defrauding people. And this is based on the book Cushner Inc. by Vicki Ward, if you're interested in learning more about the Kushner family and their problems, which there seem like there are many. Yeah. It sounds like this book really goes after Jared and Ivanka, but Carly Clause, big winner of this Kushner, Inc. book. I think so as well. And I think it does what Josh Kushner certainly wants, which is distance himself from his family and specifically Jared and Ivanka a bit, which I'm sure is great for his business.

You almost wonder whether he's a source on it, or someone close to him is. It definitely seems like it's from their perspective. Definitely. I loved it. Some other tabloid news that I wanted to discuss with you. Yeah. Last week, the New York Times wrote an article that was then based on a page six article about this really rich guy named Harry Maclow, who had a really long protracted acrimonious divorce with his first wife. And he remarried this French woman. And because his wife made, his ex wife made the divorce last for so long, he wasn't able to have like a really fancy society wedding in Southampton over the summer. And so he got. back at her by putting these giant 40-foot photo portraits of him and his new wife on the exterior of a building he owns on Park Avenue that I think his ex was supposed to move into. And it's the most spiteful, bitter, petty move that an ex can make.

And I was just dying over it. I loved it. So it's a fantastic article. We'll link to it. You really should read it. Some things to note here are that Macklow was married to his first wife. the ex in question for 50 years. 50.

50. And also, he is 81 years old. This really reminded me of something that Roger Sterling would perhaps do because he thought it was funny. Yeah. But Roger's nice show than this. To me, I also don't think that McClough seems that smart because he's 81 years old. He's already at the end of his life gotten a divorce where he had to give away $1 billion of his $2 billion. Yes.

And then he immediately got married again, which is just, I mean, you're not. just giving away so much money so late in your life. And I think that's good from a, you know, world. We should all share our wealth, but whatever. This isn't a politics podcast. This is like, clearly money means a lot to him. Yes. Amassing it and keeping it for a long amount of time. And then he has made a series of decisions from the ages of like 78 to 81 that has diminished his fortune considerably. And then he's celebrating it, including getting remarried, which like, By the way, you just don't have to get remarried to 81. You could have put this billboard up without actually signing on the line, sir, but you're 81 and kind of dottering.

And I don't know whether Roger Storling would ever be that dottering, though I guess he did marry Jane, which didn't make a lot of sense. To part of their divorce and their $2 billion divide of assets include selling works by Basquiat, Giocometti, Picasso, and Warhol. That sucks. Also, so I don't know that, yes, she had a contract to buy an apartment in. the building. Yeah. But then she exited the deal so that she could keep the condo in the plaza, created by joining seven apartments they bought in 2007 and valued by the court at $72 million.

That's insane. This is truly a kind of people who would have been brought down in the French Revolution. Like this, like they would also be asking to eat their cake. I mean, it's insane. Harry Macklow, apparently he's, I was telling you to my mom about this. And apparently he's infamous. known for being a jerk in New York. I mean, that seems right.

Also, these photographs that are so large on the building, but they really kind of do look like your book photos from 1952. It's really confusing. They truly do. Yeah. It's really a... This is scamming it away, but this is no one's held him responsible yet. So, and he just put a big target on the side of a building in New York City.

God knows what this guy is paid for in his time. Okay. I just wanted to mention them. It's probably my favorite article of 2019 so far. Don't do this. No, definitely don't. Moving on, J-Lo and A-Rod, together at last. Katie Baker wrote a great article about this.

She really did. We needed to officially market in Jam's Ashton in terms because this is a big deal. I love them. I hope they're happy. I'm very upset with Jose Cansego, known crazy person. Okay. Like the day after they announced their engagement, he claimed that A-Rod was cheating on J-Lo with his ex-wife, with, like, Jose Canego's ex-wife.

And it's like, man, do you need the attention right now? Yeah. I hope that's not true, A, and B, just go away. Nobody needs it. I don't need that at all. Her ring is too big, in my opinion. Yeah, let me ask. I wanted to ask questions about the ring and the engagement photos.

Sure. Okay, let's start with the ring. It really, it's large but also too simple. It looks basically like a ring you get in a little toy machine at the grocery store for 25 cents. I thought looked like a ring pop. Yeah. There we go. Yeah.

You know, if it's what she wants, I feel almost a hundred, 100% certain that she designed it herself. But, you know. Yeah, it seems like it. It's just a giant square cut diamond. Who dreams of that? It's really weird. Not me.

Me neither. But different strokes, you know? Let's talk about the engagement photos. Okay. Because he's down on one knee wearing white. Right. They're on the beach. It's pretty casual.

They have the moment where he's like holding the ring out, except these are 1,000% stage, right? Like they definitely got engaged and then they... Yeah, they had a photographer standing by. Here's my question. Did he actually even surprise, propose her on the beach? Or were they like, hey, it's time for us to get engaged. This is really great.

Why don't we go do a formal proposal and we'll have a photographer? Like, was there a real moment and then a fake moment? Or was there just the moment that was arranged? My impression of their relationship is that she's kind of the executive of the relationship. Sure. She runs things. That's true. And so I think there probably was like a general zone, an area of the calendar, which perhaps

they'd get engaged, and it then kind of like grew from there. But I get the impression that she's the CEO of J-Rod. Yes. As a quote from A-Rod in the People article that they talk about their engagement, this is from A-Rod, I don't have to play 162 games anymore, so I have a lot of time on my hands. Which I like this. It's kind of the Alexis O'Hanian model to a lesser degree. which is the woman is a global superstar and the more important person,

and I like the men who recognize that and are willing to kind of publicly play second fiddle a bit. I just don't think – she certainly picked out her ring. She certainly knew it was coming. They certainly know the photographers are there. I can't imagine that they're doing proposal number one spontaneously. I think the one thing we don't – we can't understand, don't have access to as just regular civilians in this world. is what it's like to constantly photograph and video yourself.

Like, and I just think that they're probably like Kanye and Kim with a videographer and photographer at all times. And so there's probably like some outtakes that you're right. It probably was like a different proposal and these are the ones they decided to share with everyone. Right. But it probably is like a little bit less manufactured because everything they do starts from a higher baseline of manufacturing. I agree with that.

I think that I just don't think there was ever the original proposal. Sure. I just think I think this is it. But it was them just being like, now it's time to get engaged. Okay, so you get down in one knee and we'll record it. But everything is decided upon. And manufactured sounds ungenerous. Yeah.

But you're right that they just live, they live in a different reality than we do. I have a question for you. Where do you stand on the veracity to many, many years of rumored, like, arranged relationships in Hollywood? I guess we talk about this a lot. And my, so I think it's true and also we don't understand what it means. Right. Because celebrities, as we've been saying, just live a different existence. They are always surrounded by other people.

They're told to go different places all the time and do different things and especially when your personality is so much a part of how you're making money because of social media. I think that their existence and what's public and what's probably. it and what's for business and what's for themselves are just really blurred. I don't think it's like separated the way that you and I would think of, okay, now I am doing this because it will be good for my career. And for four hours a day, I'm pretending to be this in relationship and 20 hours a day I have my own life. I think it just kind of like becomes a business arrangement and they become like coworkers.

And in a quote, arranged relationship, you kind of get set up by people you have in common, which celebrities have so many agents, managers. There are all of these people who just kind of exist in the celebrity sphere and are like, they pretend like friends. Are they really friends? We wouldn't consider them friends. Maybe you, you know, I don't know. And then you go out on some dates and then you decide to move in together.

But like you're traveling all the time. It's just really different. You know, so I think it's, they aren't relationships as you and I would understand them. And I wonder, I think that they often. and don't last for a reason. Yeah. Because they are relationships as you and I would understand them.

But, and I do think there are also some that are just like, here's a contract and show up for four different red carpets. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that there's a middle ground. Sure. That was like a really long answer. Yeah.

I just, I've been taking in the Jonas Brothers press tour, which is what made me think of it. And they did a lot on Corden, particularly for YouTube. And they rib Joe a lot for his many weddings, which is. like, first of all, culturally insensitive, I think. Like, not understanding, like, just the Indian customs with his Indian wife. Right. A. And B. Nick, you mean?

Yeah, sorry. Nick's. Yeah, sorry. Nick. Joe's with Sophie Turner. Right. And that one just seemed so, like, preordained because of, because we, you know, we did a whole episode on this. It's so it was funny hearing them talk about it and, like, talk about what it's like for them all to be married and everything. And, like, Nick was talking about his new in-laws. And I was like, I don't believe this more, but I do think that, like, it becomes a part of your life, like, this relationship that you've committed to in one way or the other. Yeah. Like, becomes a part of your career and I guess also your personal life.

So you just go with it. Yeah. I mean, with going back to Jennifer Lopez and Ery, you have talked many times about, like, you just don't understand how often they see each other and how to the logistics of it work because they have kids who live in different, you know, places and they're traveling all. of the time and how do they actually see each other? And I think the answer is they don't as much as you or I might expect to see our life partner. Certainly not as much as I expect to see my husband, which he very well knows. But it's just, it's different because of the terms on which they work and they live and their relationship to fame and money and life expectations. It's just so different from ours. Yeah. I hear you. So it's like not real as we've been

understand it, but maybe it's as real to them as it can be. Sure. Yeah, sure. On the topic of Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner, just a great photo of them at a Rangers game? Rangers game. We just, we talked about this. I guess it is. I suppose tis the season. Yeah. Not that I would know. Yeah. It is the season. I feel like the Stanley Cup, which is what they play for in a hobby, look at me, expert. Playoffs are soon-ish, so next month. Right. So they were there. And I just like, I love page six so much. It gives me the stories like Harry Maclowe and other like Direction New York people who are just total assholes and I love to read about them.

But the Daily Mail has just been bringing the heat with the celebrity photography this week. And they had this amazing, that's where the Sovi Turner, Joe Jonas picture was, right? I mean, I think it's like the wireless service, yeah. Background is really the, is like the photo service has really been stepping it up lately. Okay. They also had a great video of Bradley Cooper and David O. Russell leaving the Brentwood Country Mart together. It was a Daily Mail identified Bradley Cooper as having lunch with a friend. Yeah.

Bad B for David O. Russell. And then they also had a bunch of photos of the Olson standing outside on the street smoking. Right. And it was just the photos were an iconic tableau. It's nice to know that some things stay the same, right? It's very comforting. They're wearing oversized black garments and sunglasses and the hair. Their hair looks kind of greasy and straight.

It's a constant in this confusing world. I looked at it and I'm like this could have been taken any time in the last 15 years. That's why I love this photo. Right. I kind of miss celebrities like that. Also, talk about the opposite of the college bribery scandal. I mean, the Olsen, shout out to them. They've built an empire.

Without having to go to college? Well, they did go to NYU. Oh, right. I'm not sure they graduated. But they built, they transformed themselves. They didn't need Instagram, you know? That's true. Shout out to them.

I just kind of, like, miss them in general. I've always been a fan of Mary Kate and Ashley. They make nice clothes. They're far too expensive, but what can you do? And also too small. I don't think they make anything in my size. They are. It's for themselves.

They're quite petite women. Anyway, let's just go back to Sophie Turner really briefly. Your classic goes to a hockey game and doesn't know what the hell is happening or doesn't care as the case. Maybe Sophie Turner knows exactly what's happening at the hockey game and is just bored. But she's just chugging wine. To the point that at some point, she takes too big a gulp and it starts like pouring down her chin. It's incredible. It's so gross.

And is waving a jewel around and making out with Joe. and having the time of her life. Good for her. They seem happy. They said on court that they would be getting married in the next year. They're great sports watchers, which we've discussed, iconic U.S. Open visitors. They're a party couple, I think. They don't like to stay home. I think they like to be out and about. You know, that's good. It's good to find someone who shares your interests, whether it's like being rowdy at various sports events or, I don't know, staying home and not doing that. I really like it. It's been a really nice couple of weeks in the side of the college cheating scandal. low-stakes celebrity news, just sort of like nothing too dire, nothing too serious.

Just a lot of people going to the Rangers, smoking on the street, going to the Brentwood Country Mart. It's a good speed that I like. Let's keep it not controversial and just extremely trivial and frivolous. Right. So that is just the biggest jinks of all time, but we'll send the energy out into the universe and hope that it comes back to us. Indeed. Thank you for listening and thank you again to Hotel Tonight. Thanks, everyone.