The Press Box - Scott Van Pelt on Writing a Tribute to His Dog, Going Solo on 'SportsCenter,' Calling Golf, and Interviewing Tiger Woods.

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Bryan is joined by sportscaster Scott Van Pelt to discuss his tribute to his late dog, Otis, his career with the golf channel and eventually 'SportsCenter' on ESPN, his relationship with Tiger Woods, and the skills that go into calling golf ahead of the PGA Championship. Host: Bryan Curtis Guest: Scott Van Pelt Associate Producer: Erika Cervantes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Brian Curtis and producer Erica Servantes here. The other night I'm watching Scott Van Pelt on SportsCenter. Van Pelt is interviewing Chris Paul. And Chris Paul happened to mention that Van Pelt is a golf guy. Yeah, Van Pelt is a golf guy. That's one of the reasons I want to do. to have him on this week. Two weeks from today, Van Pelt is going to be hosting ESPN's coverage of the PGA Championship. But golf is also part of his TV origin story. Because back in the

1990s, Van Pelt got his first big break at a new network called The Golf Channel. And then after that big break, he got another big break by scoring an interview with a guy named Tiger Woods. And that interview in turn helped Van Pelt score yet another big break at ESPN, where he's now hosting the Midnight Sports Center and the Masters and the PGA Championship. Van Pelt and I talked about his early days on TV. We talked about golf announcer, voice. We got into the mechanics of hosting SportsCenter. And of course, we had to talk about the Van Pelt segment everyone was talking about this week.

The lovely tribute he gave to Otis, his dog, who just died. Every time Van Pelt wrote an episode of SportsCenter, Otis was sitting in a chair right behind him. And when we jumped on Zoom this morning, the first thing I noticed was that there was a stuffed animal sitting in that same chair just so there was something there. Here's Scott Van Pelt.

Scott, the tribute you wrote for your dog, Otis the other night, was that hard to write or easy to write? It was both, I suppose. What I felt was easy. I started writing it because it needed to be cathartic. I mean, for the people just listening to this, I'm sitting in my office and behind me in his chair now sits a big giant stuffed animal dog, just to kind of help for the period of time. We found out he was really in trouble on a Friday. and when I brought him home,

I just started writing because I knew the end was coming and I didn't know the end was coming a day before. And this is a guy, this dog we'd had from a week after I got married, who'd been here for every moment

of my children's life. And, you know, I just started writing about what I felt. I find it, and I don't know if you find this, Brian, I just find that, I mean, you're a writer. But for me, writing is very, is very, very helpful and it's cathartic because you can't write as fast as you can think and it slows your brain down and it forces you to get out thoughts, whether you're articulating

them or whether you're writing them. And then by the time I got to the, I guess almost performance, if you will, which was just the part where I had to read the words out loud, mostly I had processed the emotion. And so I wasn't reading words that were emotional if I just was able to think about reading them. And I mostly got home without having it made me cry, but I cried. And I didn't give a shit. I'm like, I'm going to cry. It's my dog. And I got the most beautiful, remarkable comments from people, like famous people that you just like, why is Dirk Nabitsky tweeting me about Otis? How cool is that? And just, regular people that aren't Hall of Fame basketball players to just share their emotions because they had to put their dog down on the same day or they recently did or they didn't but they were grateful that their dogs are still here.

So it was a lot, man. I mean, I found through the years, Brian, when I share personal things, going back to Rosillo and radio and certainly on our show, when I've shared things about my dad or when I talked about my daughter on her birthday or sharing this emotion of Otis, You're a human and you connect to people in a human way. And I'm not afraid to do that because I think all it does is help your relationship with an audience to know who you are as a human. Because I think we can be seen as this person sitting in a box talking about the Sixers in the Heat. Well, I'm just a guy like you with stuff. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's awful. And this one was really awful.

So I don't know. You asked a short question. I'm giving a very long answer. But I'm trying to give you sort of the totality of what it was to try to have. you know, share that horrible week of our life. You mentioned being able to get through the segment when you did it on SportsCenter. Are you speaking it aloud as you write it just to see what those words sound like to sort of try them out? No, not initially, but after I've written it, I did.

I mean, that was one that I definitely wanted to be comfortable with hearing myself talk about my dog dying and not think about me saying that, you know, Does that make sense? Because when you, like speaking those words because they're the truth. And when I wrote it, I wrote about how every, you know, anything I've written for this show, the entire time I've been doing this show, sitting behind me in a chair in my office, was Otis the Dog. And as I'm writing this, he's sitting there.

And this might sound strange, but our director, I mean, I shared with him what was happening before Otis was gone and I said, I'm not sending you this script when he's a lot because it felt like writing about him not being there when he was still sitting right there in that chair

and I'd write it and then I'd go over to him and I'd, you know, I'd pet him because I could. It was just I had to do, looking back at it in order for it to happen, I had to write it, how I wrote it,

I had to go through it, reading it over and over and over the way I did so that I was comfortable with it, so that it was more like lines and a play than it was me sharing the emotion. And even that, it was really interesting. Like I mean, when you do the show, there are monitors everywhere and you can see, you can see things. Like, I'm looking at you, but if you were on a monitor to my right and it was a giant monitor, even though I'm looking at you, I'm aware of your presence over here.

And I said, look, everything needs to be off. I can't see anything. There's the monitor on my desk. It needs to be off. Because if I'm talking about this and I'm seeing these pictures of him and my kids, and there were certain pictures that are so, like the picture I tweeted out was him and Nantucket. And I see it so vividly.

I remember the day so vividly. And I just didn't want to be reminded of that visually because it would have wrecked me. So, I don't know, it was a wild process that I hope never to endure again. What have you missed about not having him in the room as you write? Everything. Just his, just, you know, the thing about a dog that I think dog owners can relate to is it's not. Like, Otis didn't do, oh, my dog, you know, he would catch squirrels and leave him on the back porch. He was run with me and he could run 29 miles and he could do these tricks.

He could play the piano. Otis was mostly just here with me, coming over to give me, like, to rub up against me because he wanted me to love on him. Or I'd hear his feet click, click, click and he'd go in and he'd get some water and then over time, it got slower. He'd wander back in here and he'd just go and it would take a while and I'd just hear that slow and then he'd plop down and I would just talk to him constantly. you know, just absent-minded nothing about Odie boy, what do you, blah, blah, blah.

I'd tell him something was good or something was bad or the Terps stink or, you know, we're going to win this game. I mean, and he would just give you that. I mean, he was just a great listener because he didn't have much of a choice. So it's just the presence. And it's the first dog I ever had. I never had a dog in my life. And he just adored me and thought that I,

I was, you know, whatever, wherever I went, he wanted to be with me. And now, you know, not having that. I just, I just told my wife, she's like, how are you? I said, I miss Otis. And, and I will, I'm sure, forever. This stuffed animal that's occupying the chair behind you right now. Where did that come from? It was one of my, it's my, I can't remember whose it was, but I have three kids.

And, you know, as parents know, ownership is really tangible. It's, it's not, that's not the right word. it's um it's uh it's temporary and it really is you know what's the golden rule you know the guy with the goal makes the rules well it's yeah whoever whoever had that dog it was theirs i i think i got it at this place up in connecticut uh called lake compounds and i i want it for maybe my youngest son but it's been sort of everybody's and um like the day this happened it was it was it was just brought in here by one of them plopped in there and i thought right on so for until for the notice, that's where that stuffed animal will remain.

So you say in an interview that the energy required to do SportsCenter as a solo host is really different than the energy required to do the traditional two-host sports center you did for years. How would you describe the difference? You don't get to do your highlight and then sit while John Butchy Gras, Neil Everett, Steve Levy, Linda Cohn, you know, whomever. You don't, you're like the A block is, let's say, it's 10 minutes. That's the first segment of the show. Let's say tonight, you know, we come on and

the lead, last night's lead highlight was the lightning and the Maple Leafs. We were coming off a hockey game. So let's say, let's say I'm with Bucci and, you know, with his hockey acumen, he would get the first highlight and should. So we'd come on. I'd say, hey, how you doing, blah, blah, blah. Bob Bucci Gras would say his piece, he's off and running. Well, now I'm able to sort of sit and look at notes or get my stuff together, and I'm just waiting for my turn. When you, when it's just you sitting there, you come on and you do that. And then I did the next highlight, which was the hurricanes and the Boston Bruins.

And then I do an interview with Barry Melrose. And then we pivot off of that. And there's never any time to sort of gather your thoughts, catch your breath. And also, it's the thing about the show, and it's different for different people, like for Stewart.

Like Stuart Scott was absolutely giving, it was performance art, all right? And his, which made his, his, and we talked about this, you and I, like him doing that show, even as he was ill, it was incredible that his level of energy was such that he could perform at that level. I'm not a big yeller. I'm not a big, you know, I'm not over the top. I don't think of my

delivery, but it's, there's still a level of energy required to just, and mental energy, you know, don't screw it up. Don't make, don't screw up names, don't miss this, don't get that wrong. And so you do the A block and then you come back and you do the B block and you do the C block. Like there's never a moment where you're kind of getting a chance to lay out.

And I don't want people to misunderstand this. It isn't labor. It isn't heavy lifting. But there is an energy mental and to a degree not physical, but there's an energy you have to have for it not to be obvious to your viewer

that you are sort of lagging here. And Berman told me years and years and ago, and it's the absolute truth, that the best thing you can do as a host is make your viewer completely comfortable with who you are. And if it's obvious to your viewer that you're completely comfortable,

then that makes them completely comfortable, right? And now they're not sort of critically viewing as much as they're just maybe, it's almost like you're passively viewing because you're the passenger. I'm good, you're good, just relax. just talk about some sports here. Whereas if I'm sort of, if it's off, now sort of you're sitting up and like, what the fuck is going on here? You know, this, what? Van Peltz totally, did he take a,

did he take an edible or did, is he hammered? Is he asleep? I mean, what, like, you, you, you don't want your energy level to be off, which causes your viewer to then notice it and, and, interfere with the performance. Does that make sense? I think that's really what, what the, what the differences. But we, I mean, that's why Stanford Steve's so valuable to me as a sounding board because he helps with the energy and he's over there to bust my chops or to weigh in with a non sequitur or whatever. It's just his presence is is massively important to me. And then we can do, we can we can we can build in moments to catch your breath because let's say you have an interview and it's taped. Well, that's three and a half minutes that now you actually

we did that at 8 o'clock. You know what I mean? And so, and when it comes to, you know, the athletes you're going to talk to or, you know, the guests, whomever they might be, coaches, whatever, you're typically not getting them at 1245 live. You know what I mean? So, so those things can be taped. And that creates a little bit of a buffer in terms of having to be kind of on from 12 o'clock midnight

until 1259. You started the Midnight show in 2015. If you and I took the tape of last night show and jumped in the time machine and showed it to 2015 SVP, what would have surprised you about how SportsCenter turned out? I mean, I suppose that, you know, the self-deprecating thing would say that we're still on the air. But I'm trying. Very well done, Scott. I'm trying not to be that obvious when it comes to being, you know.

I've said this a lot lately that I'm trying to get better at taking compliments. You know, I mean, it's nice that you get nominated for an Emmy. That's nice. I mean, I haven't won one, but it's nice that we continue to get nominated. And there's an award that Ernie Johnson and I share this year, this sportscaster of the year. Like, I'm honored to think that our, that what we've done is digested that way or received that way. And so instead of saying, well, you know, somebody misvoted or, like, Just take a compliment.

And I think if I would compliment myself, it's just that I guess what would surprise me, what would please me is that it's clear that the mechanics of the show worked and that I'm comfortable in how we do what we do. Sports Center, as it was done by Dan and Keith or Bob and Chris, going back to the beginning, as we all know in 2022, that really can't be done. So what we try to do is just kind of create these buckets that could deliver the content

to somebody that presumably already knows the content to begin with. So how do you add something to it? And I think what I would look at in 15 and been pleased by and may be surprised by is that it doesn't look all that different than what we originally thought it would be. You know, we haven't drastically changed much. The thing I said initially was the way PTI created so many different ways to deliver and discuss topics, we wanted to figure out in a highlight version. And we have lots and lots of these fun little devices that we don't use all that often.

And any time we do, I find myself thinking we should do that more. but we have the benefit of being on after games and I still like games. The thing that bums me out about our business is there's a lot of people that cover sports and I think you don't even like them. Like, do you even like sports? You know, there's just you're cynical and you're just everything sucks and everybody sucks. Like, what do you? Do something else.

I mean, sports, it's the last thing we've got. Typically every day is pretty fun. So we got games and results. here's the results, here's the highlights, and then what other ancillary things can we do to put on the plate, right? The entree still needs to be the results. What happened? Why? Talked to Barry Melrose, talk to Matt Barnes last night. And that would please me to think that we were able to mostly do it that way and that it's evidently worked well enough that we were still, you know, mostly in that lane as opposed to an entirely different road. What's a device you try to

in the early days that you thought that was a good idea, but it just didn't work. It's funny. As I was talking, I was trying to think of an example of something that we did, and we just thought, well, that sucks. And I mean, I don't remember doing, I'm sure that there's examples. Like, most of the things I think worked. The thing I made a conscious effort not to try to do is don't try too hard to be funny because being funny consistently is really difficult. But I think just stuff lends itself to being funny. I mean, bad beats is consistently funny just because you laugh at the absurdity of it all. How does this shit keep happening?

And it does every week. I'm going to keep trying to kick this around in my brain as we're talking to try to think of something we did that we just thought, no, don't do that again. Most of the things, even if we don't do them a lot, I think the conceit, I don't remember feeling like it was so bad, because honestly, we wouldn't erred it if it was just so bad. We just thought I hate it. The key is not to beat things to death and doing it too often. I think the more judicious you are and how things are done, the better. I like what you said about not self-consciously trying to be funny in every moment. It's more like, let's be fun. And then if we get to funny,

great. That's great. I think that's well put. Because the games are fun. The people in the stands doing ridiculous things are fun. Some awful bad beat is fun in the sense of God, that's awful, but we've got to

have a laugh or else what we do. We'd all go insane. But trying, I mean, the criticism that over the years has kind of just become this blanket criticism of anybody that did sports is, oh, everyone's just doing punchlines and schick. And it's like, well, all right.

I understand it. But like, give me an example as it pertains to me. Like, tell me when you saw me like trying out for the chuckle hut. Because I don't think that's what we do. I mean, I don't knowingly go out there with a list of things I want to make sure I say. Because that's just, I don't know. That's nowhere. That's no way to do it, in my opinion.

PGA championship starts in two weeks, two weeks from today. I wanted to ask you a little bit about golf. You have talked about watching the 86 Masters with her dad. What do you remember about that experience? Just that he was a Jack guy. And, you know, it's funny when you're a young, when you're a young man, 46 seems like, you know, you're probably preparing for death. You know, but for your, Jack was 46. Boy, he doesn't have much time.

Well, now as a much older man than 46, you think, God, the whole thing's a blur. Once you turn some age, it's all sort of the some version of the same thing, right? But he liked Jack. And so just the comfortable silence of hanging out with your pop, who you loved sports with and who fostered your love of sports and watching something happening, unlike a basketball game, say, where it's very, very fast and frantic or a football game.

Even the pace of a football game is different. But, you know, a lazy Sunday afternoon and stuff starts building, right? And now there's a sense that this might happen and the more exciting that it got. And then all the things that had to happen, both that he did and that others did, which ultimately led to that. What's really neat about it after the fact is just thinking of it now that I go to Augusta. And the fact that I got to know Jack Nicholas. and that years later at Augusta one morning when we did an interview for Sports Center,

I knew him well enough that I could joke with him where he was getting ready to go play, you know, playing the par three. And I said, what do you got left in the old, that old bag of ears over there, buddy? And he's like, oh, how about a hole in one? I said, yeah, that sounds good. Jack Nicholas went out that day in the par three contest and made a hole in one. He had net, this is a true story. He had never made a hole in one at Augusta, not in a practice round,

not in the par three contest? Never. And I'm goofing with Jack. The guy that I watched win in 86 with my pop, and he tells me he's going to make a whole one. The dude called a shot, went out and did it that day. I'll never forget, you hear a roar. And I said, oh, man, who was that? So I think it was Nicklitz. And I was like, you got to be kidding me. And that night, we ran it back on Sports Center. So, I mean, that's just kind of the fun, full circle part of it now that you're able to go to this place and you have a memory with the guy who was the guy your dad rooted for that you watched that thing in 86. I mean, there's lots of parts of this gig and the moments that just are all too impossible to believe. But something like that in particular is really high on the list of

just how'd any of that happen, you know? How'd you come to start working at the Golf Channel in 1994? I was an I was an, I was a, had intern for a guy named Steve Buchance in Washington, D.C. and Buck's awesome was the Wizards play-by-play guy for years is is is really well revered locally still and I was his intern and the guy that was his producer was a guy by the name of Paul Farnsworth and Farns had gone up to New York City and was working for HBO and MSG and the group that was behind the Golf Channel on the technical side were a bunch of folks from HBO and So Farns gets in touch with me and says, hey, like, you're, you're unemployed and kind of a bump, right? Yes.

Correct. Both of those things are true. So you should come down to Orlando. We could start this thing called the Golf Channel. We'll see what, you know, there's something for you to do. All right. So pack up a rider truck with my belongings and drive to Orlando to work for the golf channel. Now, I'd never been on the air.

and I'm a production assistant and I'm there. We're cutting down these things called Shell's Wonderful World of Golfs, which are these shows done back in the 60s. Like Chi Chi Rodriguez playing at Dorado Beach. Like that's one I remember specifically I did. And it was a total long shot. I mean, the golf channel, who's going to watch golf all day? Well, what a cool success rate is now.

But in 1995, I promise you, it was like, I don't know. And I ended up doing this, just doing some behind the scenes stuff, goofing around on camera. And the one story I've told this before about, I'd share it with you. Like, my guy, Farn says, hey, you got to be in the studio today at 3 o'clock. For what? Just show up at 3. Fine. Well, they were going to do a show called Golf Talk Live, which was an interview show.

And the host was a man named Peter Kessler. And I show up, I'm like, what are you doing? Well, we just got to check the blocking and the lighting and just kind of. go through a dry run here and you're you're going to be arnold bulb okay so i sit down and i'm just lucy goosey what do i care i'm just trying to be glib and you know i'd always been fairly fluent and articulate and let's be honest i was just i was a bullshitter's bullshitter that's what i could do and so that's what i did i sat down and just did that and the story goes that this man who was in charge. His name's Mike Whalen.

And he's right from central casting, like handsome guy, Armani suits. He looked apart, TV exec. And he's looking up at the screen and watching and says to no one in particular, who is this? And they're like, what are you talking about? Who is this? This is Peter Kestleisure. What do you mean? He goes, no, no, no. Who is this idiot that thinks he's Arnold Palmer? Oh, this Scott Van Peltie's a production assistant. Was he ever been on the air? No. Well, all right. Well, from that moment, He just sort of decided that I, the golf channel was in like 10,000 homes.

It just, you didn't matter. So they let me start trying to do some things. Like, and I went out and I taped like a stand-up and did a segment from, of all people, Chi-Chi Rodriguez at a charity event in Orlando. Me and Chi-Chi, Dorado Beach charity event, me doing a terrible stand-up. And they put it on the air. And I ended up going, Brian, on the road. road in 1995 to Columbus, Ohio to cover the NCAA championships. And I met a guy named Tiger Woods.

And from there, he became who he became. And I was a guy that for whatever reason, we just had this, we had a really good working relationship where he gave me access and interviews that he didn't give other people. And that led to ESPN. And I mean, it's, I've told the story often, But I mean, I promise you, every time I say it out loud, I know what it is. I mean, it's that guy holding a powerball ticket, you know, because it was where I was, when it happened, it was who I met, and it was how it all, this sequence of like how the dominoes fell. I mean, it had to fall in the exact sequence in order for that for me to now be talking to you. And it did somehow.

You said before you got the Golf Channel gig, you were having trouble assimilating to adulthood. Why did you assimilate after you got there? What was it about that gig? I don't think there are a lot of adults in the building. It was a lot of like-minded people. There were many of us that got there, and it was a very different time in workplace culture. Let's just say it that way.

And I think there were just a lot of folks that came and that were talented. There was a lot of talent in that place. And maybe we were Lucy Goosey, going out too much and behaving in ways that you never do now, just because you kind of understand you have to be a bit more serious about how things go. But it worked, you know. And I mean, I don't know that I assimilated there other than that I had it. I was gamefully employed and was able to pay rent and start repairing my horribly.

My credit wasn't fractured, okay? It was imploded. And I had to begin sort of be paying things on time and being an adult. I did that. To this day, I'm still very, very anal about making sure what day do I owe you money? I will pay you on that day. But it all began there when I finally got the job. But it was, look, man, it was just an incredible opportunity.

I'm forever grateful to them for taking a chance and for kind of planting a seed and watering it and letting it grow. And it was, it's just amazing that it happened the way it did. And Tiger's entirely responsible for, for all of it. Without him, I don't get noticed certainly by ESPN. And I don't think they would have hired me in 2001. So how do you get your first interview with Tiger? I was there. I was there in 1995.

I'm at Columbus. He's a freshman at Stanford. And there weren't like there were a whole lot of people with the ENG cameras and a mic stuck in the back of it. And it's wild. I remember my cameraman was a guy named Paul Schlegel, awesome guy, and Nien Schlegs are just standing there. I went over and introduced myself. And so I'm there every day.

Nobody else is. And we start just sort of BSing and talking off air. And I'm, whatever I am, 28 maybe. So I'm a decade older, but I'm not like 58. You know what I'm saying? I'm young enough that I'm sort of just. And I mean, maybe I'm flattering myself, but I mean, it's the truth. I was the youngest person around.

So if that made me more relatable or less sort of stay away, maybe some of that helped. But it's just I kept being where he was because the next year was 96 NCAA championships. And that was in Tennessee, a place called Uduwa, Tennessee. I was there again. He won. And then he won the amateur at Pumpkin Ridge in Oregon. Again, I was there. And then he won the Masters of 97.

and by then he was an entirely different entity, but I drove down in 98 to Doral from Orlando. I drove down for one reason, and that was to wait for him in a locker room. When he got done, I'm sitting there waiting for him, like stalking the guy. He walked in,

I said, hey, can I talk to you Bay Hill Week? And he said, sure. And so Bay Hill Week, which was in Orlando, right where the Golf Channel was, I show up to do this interview that I arranged with him to talk about the 97 Masters. And I see Jimmy Roberts, who is a friend, a Maryland guy like me, and he works for ESPN. And I see Jimmy and he says, oh, are you here to talk to Tiger II?

And I said, well, I don't know about two, but I'm here to talk to him. And he said, well, I'll flip you to see who goes first. And I said, I'm not flipping you for anything. I drove to Miami two weeks ago and asked him if he'd do it. And if this all got set up after the fact, that's fine. but like I'm going first. And I don't know why I was so like, I just wasn't hearing it.

But I'm glad I did because I was told I had five minutes and we talked for 45 because no one had sat with Tiger and done that whole master's interview. Like no one had gone, he hadn't done it, the exercise. Friday, you shoot 40 on the first nine, then you shoot 30.

Going through the mentality of a, now all of a sudden you got the lead. Now all of a sudden you're playing with Colin Montgomery on Saturday and you obliterate him. Now you're going to win. Now you win. And he's taking you on that walk in a way where I really don't think he's ever been any better than that. And I've said this many times because it's true. I didn't do a great interview per se, but he was comfortable enough with me to be great. You know, I think that we can get way too much credit in terms of being good at the mechanics of being, of interviewing someone. What makes someone great in an interview is how

comfortable they are telling you stuff they might not otherwise tell. Now, you can be armed with a skill of asking the question. You can do a great job asking short questions. You can do a great job listening to the answer so that you ask a better question next. But if that person doesn't innately feel like they want to drop their guard and talk, then I don't care who you are and what your tools are. You're just not getting anything. So I look back to that and I realized that why he was great there was because he was comfortable with me. And also, it must have been pretty fun to talk about beating the shit out of everybody in 97 at a gun. And so that moment, that interview with him truly changed the trajectory of things because I think people saw it. And if they didn't know who I

was, they were like, well, that, wow, wow, Tiger is pretty good. The Jimmy Roberts part is fascinating to me. I think we're contractually obligated to call that a sliding doors moment at the ringer. Because if he goes first. If he pulls rank and says, hey, I'm Jimmy Roberts from ESPN, I get to go first. Maybe Tiger, you know, does a great interview. And by the time he gets to you, he's just kind of like, I've said this. I want to help you. I want to be good. But I've said it. And I just don't have the same spark. Believe me, I've thought of that often. And I mean, there truly are, sliding doors, moments, whatever you want to call it in life. There are moments. And that was one of them where had Tiger emptied the bucket with Roberts first,

and then maybe he's just tired and he's hungry and he wants to go. I would have had the same yellow legal pad, and I would have been prepared to go wherever he was willing to go, but the key part is where he was willing to go. And so I just, I happened to catch him first because I was insistent that we were going first. And yeah, I mean, I think of it often. And it's, I mean, it's somewhere back on my, in the shelf of my office, I have the book that he wrote about that 97 Masters.

And when he did it, he asked me to do the audio for the book. And it was cool. I mean, he and I have a good professional relationship. It's a friendship, professional friendship. I'm always careful to frame it. Like, it's not like we don't holiday together. We don't vacation together. But I've known him a long time.

And so the cool part about that is you know someone for long enough that they become fathers and husbands and you go through stuff and whatever. And then 20-something years after the fact and he asked you to do it and he shares that he appreciated how I've done my job. And that's why he wanted me to be the one to do it. And I thought, that's pretty cool because that's where you realize that the seat you've had for history with him. And I kid with him. I said, you know, I kind of feel like I was sort of the co-sell to your Ali. I just, you know, hopefully I wasn't insufferable. And he's like, you know, you were worse because obviously you got a, you got a, you know, the needle. But you do realize, I mean, I'm not kidding when I say, Brian, in my career, so much of whatever happened after the fact was because I was, I was, I had access to him when he was not who he became. And then he became that and there I was.

You just kept turning up and being at these events. Which is nice. It's really, really, I don't know, cosmically, it's like, it's like when you think about, what if your grandparents didn't meet, you know? My granddad was from Brooklyn. My grandma was from Oklahoma. Like a Catholic from Brooklyn, a Baptist from Oklahoma. It's the 1930s.

Like, they're not going to meet. Like, there's no chance they could meet. And it was sort of very, oh, this is frowned upon. Well, my grandma said, I'm married. him and she did you know and so i think about things like that sometimes i think about what if what if i didn't meet him you know or what if he just decided that guy sucks well i'm not talking to you about some show i have i know that but when you go back and you talk about the origin right and you guys are awesome with that you do these moments and sliding doors or origins or oral histories or whatever um they're

fascinating you know and this one just this one happens to belong to me you say colesel and ali it's us a little bit like Dan Patrick and Michael Jordan, I think, you know, where Jordan just decides, I like something about this guy. Yep. I want to talk. When I win a championship, I want to talk to this guy. Yep. And then we get what you call a professional friendship and a rapport together. I would agree. And I think that's a better analogy because, I mean, who Ali was and who CoSel were. It was such a different, so many things were different about it. I just, I just look at it from the standpoint of a media person and a true global icon and this, this partnership that they have on the air.

And Dan and Michael were clearly that way where you could always sense the confidence Dan had in those moments in the chair with Jordan. And could he get things from Jordan that others could not. And I always felt that that's, that was the hope when it came to talking to Tiger, was that there was a way to ask the question differently and that there was a way, to lean into the fact that you know I'm not trying to get you. All I'm trying to do is get you to be honest about what something means or the emotions of a moment.

And there's times that he was very skilled at just deflecting all of that. And then there's other times that you get the goods. And Michael was this exact same way. And then, you know, they're both brands. They're both very particular and careful about how they would say things. But Dan and Michael is definitely one that when I, If I look at them side by side, I think that there's certainly some comparisons there. And I had the benefit of there's four majors a year.

You know, so whereas Jordan just gets to the finals and that's that one month period, you know, we had Masters U.S. Open Open Championship PGA. That was the way the schedule went then. So you had all these opportunities year after year to be front and center with the man. So, you know, in the same way, Dan benefited, I obviously did as well. did you learn over the years to ask Tiger questions in a particular way or not ask them in a particular way? I was always, I would always just try to get him laughing, you know. And I'm going back to the be funny bit, I mean, it wasn't like with a joke.

It was just, he would always bust my chops. And so I would always think of my dad's bit about, you know, treat superstars like normal people. Treat normal people like superstars, treat superstars like normal people. So for me, what that meant was, you can be disarming by, I know you'd bust my chops about something, anything. Well, I'll do the same to you because not a lot of people are going to do that. So by sparring, it's, you know, he'd win another major. And as he's coming in to sit down, he'd be like, yeah, you know, you goggy on 17. What was that?

You know, I mean, it's just, and I mean, even if it's some non sequitur in a way where it's just, Now it's not hero worship, right? Clearly, you have immense respect for what this man is doing. How could you not? But it can't just be, you know, another way of putting it. You put a man on a pedestal. You put him in a position to look down on you. So you try to look somebody in the eye and not talk to him any differently than I would talk to you.

I mean, it's the same exchange. You know, I have appreciation and respect for what you do. Same thing. Just be yourself. And I always, I mean, there was ways to when he would give you that stock answer. And there was, somebody put this out recently before the Masters where I was asking him about, I'll give you a choice. You can win, you know, 19 majors or 100 tournaments.

And he said, 19. I said, all, you can win 17 majors or 100 tournaments. And he said, 19. And he was doing that. And I just am like, no, I'm like, no, that's not the question. I'm like, you're not listening to me. And now he starts laughing. And so he never answered it.

But the fact the way we could engage was me trying to be human and make him human. And you got the answer, which was I can't mentally process 17. It's got to be 19. Now he was a different man at that time. And life now, I think 15 is a fine answer for him. But it was having fun in those moments where you could try to make him human because he was so. not. And that's before he had a fused back and had been through a divorce and had a bald spot, you know, and like I've said many times. When he went in 19, he was relatable because he's middle-aged

and he's got a fused back, a bald spot, been through a divorce, and he's had some issues. That's relatable. Twenty-one-year-old guy that breaks records, there's nothing relatable about that. So I think in the most bizarre story arc of sports that I've ever seen, in the middle of his life, he became this person we all related to. Like I've said a lot. When Superman had to ride the bus, you're like, holy shit, that's Superman. Wow, look at that guy.

He used to fly. Well, we're rooting for you to fly again. I really feel like that's how people treated it. You said that Tiger interviews helped make your career. What exactly happens after that first big interview and then the subsequent ones? I just think people, I think ESPN knew who I was. You know, and the guy who's my main sort of my close, friend and confidant through all the years here is a guy named Mike McQuaid who people that follow

media certainly you'd know that name he's he's pretty legendary guy it's like sports center Yoda but he I'd say he's ESPN Yoda because he's he's like the wolf and pulp fiction they anything they need fixed like he shows up he shows up at a tuxedo at nine in the morning and he's ready to he can help fix big project we get hockey who do they put on it McQuaid and he he has always done the golf. And I know he would see me out there. And the golf channel in the early days, we were, we, I said I'd show up at these majors and like I was a guy with a popsicle stick trying to fight a tank. And ESPN had all the resources and we had nothing. And yet somehow with our popsicle stick, we were winning some battles. And I know that, that Mike had respect and appreciation for

the work that I did, just not getting Tiger or Ernie. I had relationships with these people because I was out there all the time. But it was the fact that I was out there grinding and hustling and trying to get, trying to, try to win a battle with a popsicle stick. And I mean, it was, I'd see them at every major, obviously, because there's Tiger and there's me. And I just, I think just, this is probably true for so many of us in life. Just show up and do the work.

You don't need to try to get attention. Just show up and do the work. Lean into the work. Trust that the work is going to get you where you want to get. And I mean, if that Tiger interview maybe put me on the radar of people, I think it was just the major after major after major of being there and doing the work that earned me a look when, coincidentally enough, Jimmy Roberts left ESPN to go to NBC.

There's Jimmy again. Go Terps. and that's my guy. I mean, he was my on-ramp to ESPN. You have been the lead golf hosted ESPN since 2017, since Mike Tarrico left. Can you help me understand golf voice? Because I think there's like a parody version of this we see in a movie where we're sitting at 17 in Tyler Woods and standing over the ball.

What is actual golf voice? How do you do it? I don't do anything. I, I, I, perfect, like the idea that you would talk like this. First of all, I'm not, I'm not sitting. I'm not directly adjacent to the grain. I'm not going to disturb anybody if I talk. I'm behind a giant glass.

I'm in a booth. No one can hear me. Now, I'm not going to scream and yell because there's no need to do that, but I just talk. I get if you are adjacent to, if you're sitting in a tower somewhere where you could be heard, and it's amazing when 20,000 people get silent, you're very conscious of not wanting to be the person that is heard and disturbing someone. But I just personally, I don't do anything any different. People point out in their right. When I go to Augusta,

I probably don't talk the same way as I do when I'm doing a college football highlight or an NFL highlight just because it's a different energy that's present. You know what I mean? It would feel out of place to be screaming and yelling. But I personally, I don't think that it's something that has to be done.

At least I don't consciously do it. Yeah, so you have to get the energy of the place, if not exactly change your voice. Yes, I think that's it. I think you ought to, that's exactly what it is. You ought to reflect the energy of your environment. And we talked about the energy required for doing SportsCenter. When I go to Tulsa and we come on the air, whatever hour it is in the morning on ESPN Plus, and you're there at the end of the day.

I mean, I literally sat last year at Kiowa and watched the sun come up and watch to walk across the sky and then set in the ocean. And the energy required for being on air talking about golf for 14 basically consecutive hours, you got to sort of parse that out over the day. You don't want to collapse

because like the first morning wave finishes their day is done. You have an entire afternoon is worth the people who's around. You're meant to, do some coverage of as well. So you got that and a lot of Diet Coke and we can get to the end of the day. How long did it take you to get comfortable with golf terminology? When I got to the golf channel, which was 100 years ago, I was basketball, baseball.

That's what I grew up playing. And I'm a fan of football. It's just too skinny to play it. So there's two sports in particular. Soccer to a degree, but it's not as bad. if you don't understand the terminology of golf or NASCAR and you try to describe it, you can instantly out yourself as not having any idea. Like if someone says, oh, you know, he hit a birdie.

And I'm like thinking, oh, no, is the birdie okay? You don't hit a birdie. You make a birdie, but you don't hit one. And there's times that you, I just, I had played, but I was. wasn't like a country club guy and I just I didn't grow up in the sport in that way where it was just innate that I understood it all. So I mean as I was at the golf channel, I mean, that's all we covered. So you figured out pretty quickly what the what the terminology was. And I I wouldn't say that I went into it blind, but I mean, there's just certain things that you learn about

what how the game is meant to be described and making sure that you are able to do it. it correctly. And then, I mean, I'm sitting next to Andy North or Curtis Strange or David Duval, PGA. I've watched a lot of golf, but I've never been in the guy in the arena. So I always defer and lean into them. When it comes to describing what's required, I haven't got a clue. So trust the people that have stood there and had to get up and down to make a cut or to win a tournament. Let them tell you what that's about. When you're doing Thursday, Friday at the Masters, is it funny to throw to Jim Nance in a way that feels like one of those Marvel crossover event movies where we've got all the Avengers together? Sure, which one am I?

Which, which, which, which, what's my suit? I don't know. You tell me. I haven't got a clue. I don't, I don't feel like I have a hammer or a shield or I'm not particularly swift. But that's well put. I mean, it's, it's their, it's their event. And as you would understand, and I think people that consume those that cover sports, you understand what it means that it's a CBS event. Sellershye is their producer, and so he's the voice in my ear because it's the CBS truck and it's all the CBS people. All I am is sort of the host welcoming you on the air, and occasionally I drop in and give you some thought on something. But it's just, it's cool because Jim, Jim, I've known forever. He is such a gracious,

kind man and so supportive and always giving you an add-a-boy about your work. And it's, you know, it's, you know, he didn't have to be as kind as he is. And I'm always appreciative of that. And you, you know, you just try to reflect the respect we have for them and that it's this collaborative thing. And, you know, whoever the, he's the, he's Thor. He's the one that's the hammer. You give it, let Thor do his thing. And you, you know, you mostly just get out of the way. And the thing I've tried to describe about this is that I'm sitting there in the Butler cabin. And once you've handed it off, you're now essentially watching the broadcast, just like the folks at home. And then there'll be a moment where they're coming to me to do something.

And I have to remind myself, oh, wait, you're hosting this broadcast, you know, and you have to quickly remember what you know the assignment, right? And so then you, you know, hopefully you're prepared to describe the highlights or read the card about drive chip and putt or whatever the case may be. But it's a, it's an interesting deal. Totally different than, you know, say, Southern Hills where it's, you know, there's a part of the time where we'll get out of the way and CBS takes over. But I mean, mostly that's our broadcast. I'm the host. I'm actually calling off.

whereas at the Masters, that's not at all what's required of your workday. You told Rusilla once, the less you say during a golf tournament, the more the people in the truck like it. Why is that? You want to hear the clubs rattling when they're deciding between a seven and an eight. You want to hear the caddy and the player describe what's the number, what am I trying to do? And it's unlike, I would always marvel,

at at doc calling hockey. You know what I mean? Like you'd think, how do you do this? The puck never stops moving, and it's just, he feathers it up and he had a thousand different ways to say, passes the puck. Well, golf is such a different watch

because it's slow and it's relaxing. And so people don't want to hear you yammering off a storm about anything. They want to hear the wind blowing. They want to hear the thump of the club hitting the ground and the ball. And all we are, I mean, we certainly can serve a purpose, giving you some information, or an anecdote in the story, fill some of the silences, but the less you're in the way of

the ambient noise that accompanies golf, I think the more people enjoy it. So, you know, we always kid around like with McQuade. I've never been better than when I just shut up for 30 seconds and let a caddy and a player talk and then pull the club and just lay out until they hit it. I remember Vern Lundquist telling me that Frank Cherkinney, the legendary CBS golf guru, the McQuade of CBS for decades, said, whatever you do, don't say that a player made a putter missed a putt. We can see that. So you don't need to say that. Say something else a few seconds after they make the putter miss the putt.

Well, and that's where our list of well, well done, well hold, you know, I mean, there's, there really isn't a ton more to say, you're right. I mean, I think I might react honestly if somebody, say it's like a downhill left to right 15 footer. I mean, you might react honestly. Like, what a pot or just, I mean, it's, you're not saying he made it, but you're, you're the audience to know if they're not already sort of aware. Like that, that was the two out of 10 put that he made. You know, that's, you're not, no one's made this putt all day.

I think there's ways to make it clear that the shot was great if it's not otherwise obvious. But yeah, I mean, that's the thing about doing play by play. When you're watching it, you know, you don't have to tell somebody that the putt went in. I don't see the ball anymore. That's my cue. I'm going to count the well-dones in Tulsa just to get a, just to get a, just to get a, see, I'm on for way too long for you to do that. And now I'll be self-conscious about it.

I'll come up with something. I'll come up with something just for you. I'll say hi, Brian. There we go. Netflix is making a documentary series about golf that's styled after their Formula One series Drive to Survive. Do you think golf benefits from that kind of show? Let me ask you a question.

To what degree do you attribute the popularity of F1 now and how much conversation we see on Twitter when there are races going on to that series? A very, very large degree. So there you go. I know these players in golf. I mean, the older ones, obviously, I know better just because I had more access to them because I was out there more. But look at hockey when you do those all-access pieces. Look at the NFL with hard knocks.

Any sport benefits from access to the people because now in the same, way me talking about Otis the dog makes me a human not this bald-headed square you see on your television it humanizes these players and you find out what they're going through what makes you want to root for him what makes him oh this guy sucks i can't stand this guy whether he means to or not he makes himself not to be a someone worthy of my support there's no doubt in my mind that a it'll be well done um but but be in the exact same way that hard knocks benefit of the NFL, those all access with the NHL absolutely show you what those guys are about. And the F1 popularity, I believe, is massively tied to that series. I think it will

certainly help. And I think it'll help take it beyond the very passionate golf fan base that already exists. I think it'll, and that's why F1 has become so popular. I don't think, I mean, Riscilla loves to talk about F1 and the kids around about being the top North America. African F1 podcast or however reframes it. I mean, I just wonder the people that are, that I see tweeting about it. So, you know, like zealous high level tweeting with F1. And I'm thinking, this has got to be that. So it'll help.

Yeah. I feel the F1 series was to some extent about what the hell is F1 for a lot of Americans. They just didn't know anything and who the hell are these guys. Whereas golf, they have a basic understanding. They know what the Masters is. They know what the majors are. They know what the U.S. Open is. And maybe it's just what you said,

we need two or three things about these guys, each of these guys that might be more anonymous to us outside of the big stars. I would agree. And I mean, F1 is just, I mean, most people have probably held a golf club. And if they haven't done that, they've almost certainly played putt putt.

So that makes your understanding of what they're doing. At least you have some tacit understanding. Whereas with F1, I wouldn't, I'm driving a car 200 miles now through the streets of Monaco. Like I don't, I have no concept of any of that. You know what I mean? So I think golf has a head start in terms of its, of the understanding of what it is. But then it's the who that makes things more compelling.

For more than a decade, I feel we've been doing a public think piece about the state of golf. Is the sport okay? What are the participation rates? Who is the post-Tiger person who's going to carry us through in whatever way? Where do you fall on those questions in terms of the state of golf? The tiger bid is the, it's the concern, certainly, because he, you know, he turns up in Augusta this year. And it's, look, it's the circumstances of what his absence was and what he had to deal with to get back. But it's still who he is.

That's the reason it's such a big deal. And, you know, Scotty Schaeffler, when is amazing. He shows up number one. he's won three out of five, then now he's won four out of six. And so you got a number one who shows up and wins. Like that's Tiger Woodstock. But does that resonate with people the way Tiger does?

No, of course not, because Tiger's the only tiger. And so I think the game is loaded with talent. And interesting young people like Colin Moracow, he's just a fascinating, intelligent, bright, likable, funny,

the whole bit. I mean, he's got the whole package. But is he going to deliver eyeballs the way Tiger?

No, that's not fair to Colin. I think what we've said for 15 years is that it has to be a collective, right? No one person can do

what Tiger does. So it needs to be the collective. And I think the depth of the fields and the talent globally is maybe unrivaled.

I mean, I'm always hesitant to say that. but it feels that way. And yet, Tiger's presence at Augusta and the fact that, you know, the whole, all the median Tulsa scrambles out to Southern Hills because we got a jet on the tarmac and there's Tiger. No one's doing that for anybody else either.

So the concern is always going to be how do you, how do you fill in that blank? The answer clearly is you won't. And so I think it's just best to enjoy whatever these little handful of years left of his participation as a competitor exists. And then, you know, inevitably, you segue to what life is after. But it won't, there is no him. And there is no air to him. It's just, there's not any one person that's going to be that. One more before you go, Scott. If we stipulate that you have great gigs at ESPN right now, what do you miss about doing a daily sports radio show? I just missed the camaraderie and the challenge of what Rosillo brought.

That's the main thing. That relationship with an audience is second to none. You have the bandwidth to get loosey-goosey some. But like I said to you earlier about actually liking sports. I mean, Rassillo and I have joked for years. Like, are we doing this wrong that we actually watch games and like games? Are we supposed to do some other thing with our time? because we actually like the sports and the games.

And so that made it a true, a joy to do every day. And trying to keep up with that guy was, I've said it before, I'll say it with you, he made me better because he was just relentless and prepared and interesting and looked at things, pushed me to look at things from this, from this viewpoint. All right. A block or at one o'clock, let's say, we'll talk, we'll talk heat and Sixers. Okay, what's the topic? Because anyone can say, we'll talk heat and sixers. Well, what, yeah, well, what's the topic? Is the topic, would you really max out James Hardin looking like he looks right now? Because that's interesting. Is it, does Joe L.M.B. prove he's the MVP

by not playing in these two games because you see what they are without him, because that's interesting. Is it, wow, look at what the heat did to Tray Young last series and look at what they're doing right now. Are we missing an obvious one seed in front of our face? I mean, are they going to win the East? And when they do, we're going to realize we should have given them more love all along. Because you could make a segment out of any of the things I just said. But what we're Silla would do is really push the conversation in the 12 o'clock hour leading up to when we go on the air to figure out, well, what's the most interesting one? Well, maybe at one o'clock, let's do the credit piece of this and let's talk Miami because they want.

But at some point we've got to get into what's filling, right? And so the layers to what makes the conversation interesting, I really enjoyed that. And then I enjoyed just the non sequiters. That guy's really funny. And his delivery is funny. And you'd have to be paying attention to not miss it a lot of the time. And so it's that that I miss.

And so when I go on from time to time on his podcast, I mean, it's the thing that's cool about it is that it's very, it's very quickly like throwing on, you know, a well-worn hat. You know, it still fits. And, and so that time is enjoyed when we do it. But I'll also say that there are the days when there aren't the obvious laundry list of topics where I don't miss trying to figure out how do you get to four o'clock? July. Yeah. There you go. The line's been said often about anyone out there that's a sports fan who probably do some version of a show for a day. On a Monday in the football season, you could do it. There are obvious topics. You might not be good at it, but you could do it. Then on Tuesday, what are you doing Tuesday? Right? Then, okay, you got through two. Now it's Wednesday. say, what are we doing now? By Friday, you'd be good again because now you're just previewing.

So you've had two days you could ham and egg it and you could get it from A to Z. A lot of days when you're trying to just, you're trying to come up with ideas, man. And those days were a challenge. But they definitely made me better. Working with him made me better. And now you know, you only have an hour on TV and it feels like a sprint. It's like a rocket ship. You don't nearly have the time, which is why when we devoted five and a half minutes to the passing of my dog, that was the one sort of really selfish thing I decided I would do. And it was the NFL draft and there were four NBA playoff games. And I don't often do the, it's my show, but as I told our producer that day, I said, look, we got five minutes less content because I'm talking about Otis. The end.

No sweat? We're good. I got it. But you definitely don't have nearly as much time in the TV space as we had in radio, which has its goods and its bads. But it was certainly fun. And as I say, those days with Rosillo are well remembered at any time we do it. I always, you know, I smile and I remember why.

Scott Van Pell, thanks for coming on the press box. You're awesome, man. I really enjoy the conversation. Thank you so much. All right. It's time for the second weekly edition of David Schumacher, guesses, the strained pun headline. Yeah. Monday's headline

about the NFL drafting, two punters very early in the draft was rare feat. Today's headline for which David will have no help comes from Chris Bigginski. It's from the Providence Journal. I believe that's that publication's first appearance here. Providence schools, David, have a new grading system.

In certain grade levels, students can longer flunk a class. If you flunk, the school is going to give you a college style incomplete. You can't flunk. What was the Providence Journal

strained pon to headlock? You're close. Get the F. By the way, it totally would have worked. Get the F out of here. Get the F. F. F, no I know.

F. God. No F sands or butt. No, no, uh, no, uh, F, F. No, they're not handing them out anymore. No F's. Oh, no F's given. All right.

Yeah. No F's given. He is David Chumaker on Brian Curtis production, magic by Erica Servantes. Back Monday with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then, David. See you later, Brian.