The Press Box - The AP's Philip Crowther on Covering Ukraine, Live Shots, and Reporting in Six Languages

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

Bryan is joined by Associated Press international correspondent Philip Crowther from Lviv, Ukraine. They discuss Crowther’s day-to-day operations, summarizing the news for other countries when recording live shots, covering this war in comparison to others, and more. Host: Bryan Curtis Guest: Philip Crowther Associated Producer: Erika Cervantes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Bacari Sellers podcast tackles the most pressing current events through conversations and interviews with high-profile guests. Building upon his experience in South Carolina government and politics and his experience as a lawyer, Sellers will talk to his guests about all topics from the world of politics. Check out the Bacari Sellers podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, media consumers. Welcome to the press box. Brian Curtis of the Ringer here along with producer Erica Servantes. David Shoemaker is going to be along in just a few minutes to guests.

the strained pun headline. But first, we've been talking a lot about the experience of foreign correspondence in Ukraine. Our guest today, Philip Crowther is on the ground there right now. You probably remember Crowther as the TV reporter for AP Global Media Services, who was doing live shots from Ukraine in multiple languages. He speaks in reports in six.

English, Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, and Luxembourgish. Crowther is in Leviv, Western Ukraine, we recorded this interview late Tuesday evening local time about an hour after he heard an air raid siren. In fact, it was the fourth time he'd heard the siren that day. Here's Philip Crowther from Ukraine. All right, I'd love to start, Philip, by just asking you, what did you do today? That's a good way to start. I actually went to a funeral. I went to a funeral of four service members of the Ukrainian army. It was a funeral service in a Jesuit church here in Leviv. There were a lot of media there, a lot of people, a lot of soldiers, family members, crying,

a mother, I believe, daughters, sons of soldiers who lost their lives. This happened in the attack at the weekend, the Russian missile attack on a military base not far from here and not far from the Polish border that killed at least 35 people, and these four soldiers were among them. So there's a way for us to notice how, remember how close the war is, despite the city where I am being a relatively calm place. There were four soldiers who were buried here today. Did I see on your Twitter account that an air raid siren was actually sounding outside the church right before the funeral? It actually did during. I just left and heard it outside the church doors outside with quite a few people listening to the service actually from outside because they couldn't

get in. It was such a full church for this service. So the people inside also heard this air raid siren. We had it go off quite a few times here in LeViv today. First time I've heard it in the daytime twice. It didn't make people leave the church. It didn't make people, you know, scamper for cover. I think people are relatively used to air raid sirens. Maybe there's a false sense of safety because there haven't been any attacks on this city so far. But yeah, there was a reminder for us of, first of all, that church service of the cost of this war, and also with the air raid sirens, a reminder of the risk that still exists and the danger that all parts of Ukraine are in right now. So that's what you did today. What's a typical day like? You wake up, you read what, you go,

try to see what? Yeah, try to see as much as possible here in the city that, you know, is not affected directly by the war all that much. It's all relative, of course. This is a city that has a lot of refugees who've passed through and a lot of them are here right now, passing through essentially. At one point, at least, there were 200,000 refugees in the city on top of a population of 700,000. So it's an enormous increase in population here. A lot of refugees are in the city right now. This is also a city that is organizing humanitarian aid to then move it on to the east and the center of Ukraine. But what does a normal day look like?

Well, I try to get as many impressions as I can of what daily life is like here. But a lot of my work is to summarize what is happening in the world. this war generally. And I depend on my AP Associated Press colleagues who are on the ground, either in the capital, Kiev, or even closer to the front line, essentially, not that there is an official front line at this point, but we have journalists who are eyewitnesses to what is happening right now. So I read their accounts. We have a Slack channel, we have WhatsApp groups, through which I get my information as quickly as possible. And the other thing, that, you know, I have to be sure of is that anything that I use on air is 100% obviously accurate,

but also based on AP reporting. So I have a very close look at what we are going with and, you know, don't follow rumors and the like. So that's important, you know, just to get my head around the actual facts of the day and make sure that I don't veer from that. When you're moving around LeViv, Are you with a translator, with a cameraman? Who's with you in those? Well, sometimes I'll go for a walk by myself. You know, this is something that maybe from further afield, people don't understand that this is a city that feels very normal on any given day, despite a war happening in this country.

It's strange how people, you know, go for walks on a Sunday and some restaurants are open. And so you can go for a walk by yourself. You don't have to be in a team, you know, as tends to be the case. In most war zones, we have a producer with. us producer or fixer. Basically someone, you know, when you go abroad to a place where you don't speak the language, you have someone who's called a fixer, you know, a someone with local knowledge. In our case, it's Oli from Kiev, who actually came over here to Leviv with our previous team who were reporting from Kiev when they had to essentially leave when it got a little bit

too hairy. She helped them get here to Leviv, which was a pretty treacherous journey. But she knows, you know, she knows everybody it feels like. And so she's somebody who I rely on quite a lot for translation, but also for local knowledge. We're a team of four here. So camera operator, producer, myself and a fixer slash producer. You, the APGMS, tweeted out a couple of weeks ago that you were available to do custom live shots in six different languages. So how many live shots do you do a day, typically? Well, the first day I arrived here in Leviv back in Ukraine for my third stint, I did 21 live hits. So that was quite a lot. It didn't, it wasn't a 24-hour day, because, you know, some, some come in quick succession, you know, within an hour. But yeah, it was 21

live hits in five different languages. So, you know, some days are particularly busy. Now I'm talking to you between two live hits, one in Spanish for a German channel and then one in English for a channel that's based in China. So, you know, that's, That's kind of what the day looks like, you know, adapting to all sorts of different languages and worldviews and channels. So it's been busy. When you're summarizing the news, do you find channels in different countries want different things from you or want different things highlighted?

You know, that's very interesting. I get a really good insight into the different worldviews that channels have, what their priorities are without naming names of specific channels, but there might be one or two who are more interested in the immigration angle. And you know, what that might imply is what does all of this, what does this refugee crisis mean for us? As in, what does this mean for one particular country, a country that might be, or a channel that might be worried about another migration crisis on their borders. But generally with this story, because it's such a, such a big worldwide story, and it's everybody's priority right now. It is everybody's top story. We all spend,

a lot of time thinking about the Russian invasion of Ukraine, that it's really the facts that everybody wants right now. Also, my experience on the ground, but more than anything, the facts. They want to come to somebody in Ukraine to summarize the story. And so it's been pretty homogenous, actually, across the board. There might be one or two channels that might want something a little bit more personalized, you know, where I might be able to tell an anecdote here or there, but others just want the bare naked facts, you know, what is going on on the ground right now, and, you know, are there any diplomatic talks happening? Those will be questions that will be repeated from, you know, from one channel to the next throughout the day.

This is one of those rare occasions where there isn't really that much of a local angle for each channel. There isn't a German angle on this war. There isn't a British angle on this war. no, everybody just wants to know what is happening on the ground. Facts meaning movements of Russian troops, diplomacy, like you said, something in the aftermath of an attack like the one near Leviv the other day, casualties, that sort of thing. Yeah, what's the latest on the ground means are Russian troops advancing?

What kind of attacks have there been on the capital city? How close are troops to this and that city? Is a city like Maripal still besieged or are people getting out? how are diplomatic talks advancing? Are there any chances of a ceasefire, local ceasefires, humanitarian corridors, just the urgent facts that people really, really want to know right now? My co-host and I have been talking a lot about the mechanics of live shots because we've been watching cable news and seeing reporters like you standing in front of the city at night or standing in front of a particular site. How do you decide where to set those up?

Well, it's interesting. For practical reasons, Most channels try to be high up, basically. So you've got a nice city view, essentially, not just in a war zone, pretty much on any story you could possibly be on. We have the added problem that there is a curfew here between 10pm and 6 a.m. So we couldn't broadcast from the street. So we actually broadcast from outside two apartments that we've rented in central Liviv. That's how we decide where we broadcast from. Others are broadcasting from hotels.

all of it for their ease so that you can go from working inside to doing your life shot and going back to working inside. Even, you know, in case of bad weather, it's been very cold here, for example. And you need to be somewhere, you know, protected and quiet. So you can concentrate on the work at hand. You can't do all of your life shots if you're doing a 20-hour day in the street. You've got to be somewhere where you have an office, that kind of thing. But you do want to make it, you know, look somewhat symbolic of the place that. that you're in. So we're looking for a backdrop that, you know, looks like you're in Leviv. It doesn't

mean much to many people, but you want a little bit of a panorama, if you will, of the city. I think that's what's so interesting is the message conveyed by those shots, because as you say, it is a nice city view within a country that is at war. And I'm always interested in how that plays at people at home, because, you know, we watch that, and there's certainly a you are there element to it. But there's also we're making judgments just based on the fact of what is behind you at that particular moment. I even had a presenter yesterday mentioned that the weather was nice where I was, which is a very quaint thing to hear when you're reporting on a war. But it was, you know, it tied in with that whole idea that I was trying to convey that day of it being just a

normal day in this city of how strange it is, how surreal it is, that life goes on, despite there being a war not just on the doorstep, it's actually right here. There have been attacks very close to here. And yes, the backdrop that we are displaying right now is one of a city that is calm, even picturesque at times. But you're seeing something similar from Kiev right now, which is a city that's almost under siege. When you look at most of the life shots, they are from a central hotel with an orthodox church in the backdrop that looks very ornate, that's nowhere near being attacked. And, you know, it looks, it looks very pretty. So there is, and then you've got correspondence on air wearing, you know, flack jackets and helmets. It's a very, it's a very surreal

sight, really. And that's kind of part of the story that, that I think we're trying to tell, that there is a war happening in a place that, well, that first of all is, is, is very nice and very pretty. You know, you don't want to see Kiev being attacked. You don't want to see Kiev being attacked. you don't want to see a city like Leviv being attacked. These are very special places. But you've got to be in a position where if something happens, you can also see it and you can report on it. You know, you think about the worst case scenario. What if, you know, there is an airstrike or an artillery strike close to you?

Will you still be able to report on it? For example, in our case, we would probably have to move from being in an outdoor position on a rooftop. we'd have to move somewhat indoors, you know, put the camera indoors, maybe I would stand in the doorway or even, you know, you do it with a closed window. When the worst comes to worst, you know, I think there's a, there's a lot of leeway and the viewer will accept that the live shot is not going to be pristine. Countries at war are often heavily policed by government minders who tell reporters where they can go and where they can't go and often ride along with them. What's the situation like in Ukraine? Well, look, it's different in Kiev and in places that have

besieged, of course, to where I am here. But you do, I wouldn't say that you see a jitteriness in the police or in the military that you see in the street. Things are very calm. But our lights have drawn a little bit of attention. We've got very bright lights on a rooftop. And we have a lot of neighbors who see us doing what we do. And some of them are people who have come here from the east of the country or central Ukraine and have seen bad things and are suspicious and that's that's fair enough. So we've had a few visits from the police to make sure that we have the right credentials, that we're not doing anything unto Ward and we've been fine. But, you know, any life shots that we do after, say, 9 p.m. local time, we try to keep the lights to a minimum so that people don't

get scared, basically, from there being these bright lights that might attract some sort of tension. And as journalists, we try to be self-effacing as much as we can. It's difficult when you've got big, bright camera lights, but we try to do it. When you're walking around the city, do you wear credentials identifying U.S. press? No, we don't hear. We carry them in our pockets just in case. I've had to show them a few times. We're allowed to walk in the city outside of curfew time, or rather during curfew time,

but you might be stopped. So we carry them along. I mean, what is really fascinating about this is how quickly a country falls into war, if you will, or in this case is invaded and has to adapt. We got credentials after just a week from the armed forces of Ukraine that were specifically made for this war that specifically said this credential allows you to report from the frontline and we take no responsibility for what might happen to you. It's quite astounding how quickly those things are organized, but you do have to have press coverage of a war and you have to facilitate it. Otherwise, this story can't be told. And

the armed forces of Ukraine are very aware of that and have adapted to that. So there is a special credential that we have that gives us a little bit more freedom to report as we choose. You're based in Washington, D.C. normally? What made you decide to come and report from Ukraine? Not my decision. I would want to be here anyway, even if I didn't have people telling me this is where you should be. This is a war that none of us wanted to see. I'm a European. I don't want this to happen, but it is probably, it could be the biggest story of our lifetimes. We don't know. It comes just after a pandemic that also we thought was the biggest story of our lifetimes. So you just want to be here as a reporter. But in my case, there is just no choice. This is where people want

reporting from and where I can provide it. So there is just no question. question that this is the place where I have to be right now. Obviously not all the time. We're doing rotations, meaning that this is my third time in Ukraine. I'm going to leave soon and come back a fourth time. And every single time the country is different. And I'm a little bit afraid of what it might look like when my next rotation starts, which is in two weeks time. I don't know whether Leviv will still be this peaceful place that's the way it feels right now. I don't know what the capital city, what kind of a state the capital city will be in. But, you know, this is one of those occasions where I don't have the choice, but I'm also more than happy that

I'm being told this is where you're going. You've done this before. Libya in 2011 covered coup attempts you said on your website in Venezuela. How did those experiences compare to this one? Well, strangely enough, I'm inside of a country at war and it doesn't always feel like it, because there is a part of this country, the west of the country that has been largely spared. The cities haven't been attacked. Military targets have been hit. And it felt like the war has come a little bit closer over the last four or five days because there have been attacks in the West as well. What's different to Libya, for example, that was in 2011, is I was right in the middle of the war. The front line was shifting constantly.

You might be behind enemy lines in front of enemy lines. Things shifted so quickly. You really didn't know exactly. It was incredibly chaotic and very risky as well. It was a very chaotic war. that one, it was at the time when Muammar Gaddafi, the leader of Libya, was trying to attack the rebel stronghold of Benghazi in the east. There was a back and forth essentially for weeks, and you might remember there was a no-fly zone imposed, which is, of course, something that

we're talking about in Ukraine quite a lot. And I was there during that time when warplanes started attacking Gaddafi's troops. That was just very, very chaotic. A coup attempt in Venezuela is different in the sense that it didn't succeed. It was a bloodless coup that didn't happen. It was just, you know, quelled very quickly. But it made for jittery streets, undoubtedly. It's a regime that can get violent with journalists, with opposition activists, with protesters. So you felt that nervousness in the streets.

And, you know, yes, bulletproof vests and, you know, a little bit of security and all that. So not a war zone, but a place that where we had to be careful. Do you feel something like fear when you're in those environments? Yeah, I think so. I think you should. Otherwise, you're not going to be safe. I think you have to be a little bit, you have to have a little bit of fear, confidence as well that you know what you're doing, I think. in case things go bad.

You have to have that confidence that you'll be okay, that you can take the right decisions. But you also have to have that little bit of fear. You can't be nonchalant. That's how accidents happen in all walks of life. So I think there's a, I wouldn't say healthy, but there is some kind of a mix, if you will, of a little bit of fear, but also the confidence to know what you're doing

and the will to get the story, of course, and put all of those together. and, you know, hopefully you're going to be okay. But in a war zone, you know, something terrible can happen from one moment to the next that you can't control. So that's also a feeling that you will have a certain lack of control. Can you describe how fear resides in your brain in a situation like that? Do you go to sleep thinking about it, wake up thinking about it, minute to minute, think about it? How does it play out?

You know, here I don't really feel it because this is a, again, it's, it's a strange, somewhat safe place within a country of war. So we have air raid sirens here that wake us up during the night occasionally. That doesn't make you jumpy, but it makes you aware. You know, that's when you should be going to a basement, but also, you know, listening to see if there are any detonations somewhere, are there any explosions, anything that sounds like a thud. So, you know, you're going to be very awake and very aware for, you know,

10 to 15 minutes thereafter at least. That's not fear. That's just an added awareness. The fear maybe would start once a city like this one was truly attacked. Hopefully it doesn't come to be. We're not in that situation yet. But, you know, that wake-up call could happen at some point. You know, the Kremlin or Vladimir Putin has decided to attack other places. And this one could come along as well. It's not tactically important militarily. important, but that hasn't kept him from attacking other cities rather aggressively and in a very deadly way over the last three weeks. I want to ask you a little bit about your background, Philip. You grew up in Luxembourg and you

were speaking which languages growing up? Well, I think I would say I started with English and German. My father is British. My mother is German and they always spoke in their respective languages in front of my sister and myself. So what that means is if we were in the room, my dad would speak English to my mom and she would answer in German and you know and vice versa essentially so it's a strange right I mean to think about a couple having a conversation in two languages but that's what they did to give us this bilingual education so you know we got these two languages I'd like to say for free you know we heard them at home they become I don't believe in a mother tongue because essentially I have a mother tongue and a father tongue

Luxembourgish is the language I learned with my friends in growing up and it's a language that feels like a mother tongue to me as well. And French I learned at school very early on, not exactly a mother tongue, but almost. And then I studied Spanish and Portuguese. So that's how you kind of come to the grand total of six. And I read you did a stint as a sports writer in Uruguay in the 2000s. What was that like? That's kind of where things started in a sense. I finished my studies. It was Hispanic studies in London and didn't know what to do with myself afterwards. What do you do with that? What's the career path exactly? And a friend of mine, a very good friend of mine, who was half Uruguay and half German, you know, we were, I think it was,

we were literally on the last day of classes. And she said, you know, my uncle offers all of us traineeships in his newspaper, El Paiz in Uruguay. I don't want one. Do you want? Do you on it. And I said, yeah, let's go. And so, you know, I got into the sports section, which is, you know, my my real passion is soccer and, and other sports. And so, you know, I was able to do a traineeship in a place, a traineeship that was unpaid, I should mention, in a place where life was a lot cheaper. So it made a lot of sense to me. And I think that's where I first got the feel of a newsroom and, you know, the fascination with, with news gathering. And I started to understand. a lot of the mechanics of how these things work. And I think that's probably where it all began.

I think it was last month we all saw this video of you speaking in six different languages and offering essentially live shots. That was you who tweeted that out. That was the APGMS. Where did we, where did, where did that come from? Yeah, it was me. It's my own fault that this whole thing went viral at some point. I make these videos when I'm on location, when I do the six languages, which is not always the case. You know, sometimes a story doesn't interest at German speaking audience and I won't do a live shot in German. But if I do the six, I try to collect them and make them into a one-minute clip. You know, people's attention spans are rather short, aren't they? So one minute, no more. So I cut these things, you know, I edit this thing together,

put it on social media and then, you know, see what happens. And the most recent one got rather out of control and ended up on a few late night shows. And I'm happy to, that it, you know, I'm happy that it went viral for the right reasons. A lot of people go viral for the wrong reasons because they do something stupid. Maybe they fall over, you know, whatever might happen on camera. And in my case, it was something that made a lot of people think, isn't it great to learn other languages? So, you know, I can't complain. And it functions sort of as an advertisement to the world's news stations. Like, I am available if you need me to report. Yeah, I think so. And there were some that got in touch afterwards and said, you know, so this is what you do. I mean, maybe you could do something for us as

well. Yeah, it's an, it's advertisement for myself, but also for what we do at AP and in GMS global media services, you know, the kind of, the service we have, which in this case is, you know, book a live shot with us and you'll have a guy in front of the camera who'll speak your language, hopefully. And who can do it, you know, it's called, you know, we call them custom live shots, meaning that I can adapt to their needs. And yeah, it's a little bit of, Viral fame doesn't hurt. I'll end here. You mentioned you're about to leave Ukraine. You'll go where when you leave? I'll go back to D.C. That's where my family is for hopefully two weeks. And then I think I'll be back here.

I would be going other places, you know, wherever big breaking news stories are or big news events. I should have gone to the Oscars in L.A. It fits very nicely into this, you know, break between stints in Ukraine. but it just, you know, we've had this discussion internally and, you know, decided that doesn't make sense. And it's not a, it's not necessarily a good look for someone to go from a very serious story like this one to a red carpet and then back again. So I'll miss out on the Oscars this year because more serious things are happening in the world. But yeah, back to DC for two weeks. Try and concentrate on my family and not think too much about the news, which is rather impossible. and then come straight back to a country where, again, you know, I'm a little bit afraid of

what it'll look like in two weeks time, how much might have changed, because it's only been three weeks and it's been a relentless war that has changed a lot in Ukraine already. So, yeah, this is, I wouldn't say this is my second home, but I'll be coming back to this country for the fourth time already. Philip Crowther, thanks for coming on the press box. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. All right, it's time for the second weekly edition of David Shoemaker guesses this train pun headline. All right.

Monday's headline about McDonald's and Russia was War and Greece. Today's headline comes from our great friend Katie Baker. It's from City AM. Not a publication I was totally aware of before reading this headline. The story, David, is about something everyone is obsessed with. the consequences of high gas prices. Subhead reads, record petrol prices could hurt retail sector

warn experts. I'll spot you a word, fuel. Fuel. I can have gotten that one. All right, hold on. Read me the subhead again. Record petrol prices could hurt retail sector

warn experts. Fuel economy, fuel, fueling fears, fueling, fuel, you'll have a lot of regrets about what's going to happen to the retail sector here. Regrets. Regrets I've had a few, no, no, regrets I've had a few. Not literally regrets. Regrets. Regrets. Apologies. We'll almost, apologies will be, it'll be tender. here. So, oh, man.

Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Fuel and sorry. Oh, fuel and sorry for myself? Feeling sorry for it. The answer is fuel be sorry.

Oh, you'll be sorry. All right. Fuel be sorry. He is David Chewaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Production manager because of Mr. Shoemaker Monday

for more lukewarm takes about the media. See you that, David. See it later, Brian. I think Fuel and Saur for myself is good. I agree. I agree. Contact City AM with any editorial suggestion.