The Press Box - 'The Big Picture' — Jenny Slate, Gillian Robespierre, and Elisabeth Holm on ‘Landline’ (Ep. 332)

Episode Date: July 21, 2017

The Ringer’s Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins discuss Gillian Robespierre’s ‘Obvious Child’ (0:10) and her new film, ‘Landline.’ Then Sean is joined by Robespierre, Jenny Slate, and Elisabeth Holm to discuss growing up in the ’90s, the sacrifices of independent filmmaking, and collaborating on their second project together (10:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to The Big Picture. My name is Sean Fennesse. I'm the editor-in-chief of The Ringer. We have a great show today. Four guests. Three of them were interviewed. One of them would be having a chat with me. The three guests are Jenny Slate, Gilean Robespierre, the director, and Elizabeth Holm, the writer and producer.

And we're here to talk about Landline, their new film, which I'm very excited about. But before that happens, joined by Culture Editor Amanda Dobbins. Amanda, thank you for being here with me. Thank you for having me. Amanda, I have a very exciting show today because I was joined. by three other women earlier today. But I wanted to talk to you first because I'm hoping you can give us a little bit of context

about Gillian and Jenny and Elizabeth and what they do. And also maybe we can talk a little more broadly about, you know, the movies that they make and what has happened to them. So, you know, help me understand what Gillian and Jenny did before this new movie landline. So Gillian and Jenny,

I would say, are both best known for a film called Obvious Child, which was Gillian's debut. And Jenny Slate's kind of first big, post-Satternate Live moment. I guess she's famously known for cursing on Saturday Night Live and then Obvious Child. That's right. Obvious Child came out in 2014 and the most basic description of it is that it is about a young

woman in Brooklyn who has a one-night stand gets pregnant by accident. Like you do. Yeah. And then ultimately decides to have an abortion. That's the movie. And it is a rom-com as well because there is kind of a set. secondary, will they, won't they with the gentleman in question from the one-night stand? Will there be a second night? Yeah. But it was, in addition to being a rom-com, it's obviously a kind of very

Brooklyn situational film of a certain moment that it was very well received at the time. It was kind of around girls was still very much in its stride and it kind of was of that vein of like young woman in the city of a certain age, not quite having it together, but trying to and was really beloved. Yeah, I think if you just go through some of the descriptional elements of the story, you'd be like, oh, that's kind of a classic rom-com, but the look of it and the feel of it

and the performances are just a little bit grounded. Is that a fair word to use? Yes, absolutely. That it's not glossy. Right. It's not aspirational in the traditional rom-com sense of the word. And if you compare it with, say, a Kate Hudson film, it's a little, not gritty,

But messy. Yes. Very messy. And I talked about that with the three women earlier, just the fact that there's a lot of difficult choices that are made by people that sometimes seem ugly on the outside. And then you see people reconciling with those choices. And that's not totally the way, say, you know, your classical Sandra Bullock, Tom Hanks scenario plays out, right? Exactly.

They're definitely the characters are slightly more, and I hesitate to use this word, but unlikable. Off-putting. How about that? And they tend to be a little more R-rated, for lack of a better word. Like, the fact that an abortion is on the table here is a different conversation, but that's not a word that you hear in any rom-com. Right. Sex is just, you know, they're just looser. You were a woman living in Brooklyn when obvious child came out.

It was. I still was, yes. You know, and when I spoke with the three of them earlier, I was relating some of my personal experiences to landline and tried not to reveal too much. But, you know, the concept of, like, observing divorce in the 90s. is very resonant there. Were there any aspects of, you know, the obvious child experience, maybe setting aside the deep personal, but just sort of the experience of watching that movie. We're like, this feels like closer to my life than something that, you know, maybe Nancy Myers would write. Yes, absolutely. It's funny. The first thing that, as soon as you asked that, the first thing that popped into my mind,

I watched part of obvious child again last night. And I was just like, I wanted everything that Jenny Slate was wearing. I was like, well, I would love that card again. I don't quite have that one. And it's, you know, a different, I relate to Nancy Myers movies in the same way, which maybe says something about meat. But yeah, the first date sequence in particular, which is just a very crappy bar in Williamsburg after a comedy show that you, that's in the back that you try to avoid. And chills just went up my spine. Absolutely. And there's this moment also. So she meets, it's Jenny Slate's character and Jake Lacey is the actor. And then there's a third person along for most of the date, which is Gabe Leidman, Jenny Slate's kind of real life comedy partner. But yeah, it's just a very awkward triangle of a date because it can't get rid of the other person and then suddenly awkward sex happens. Truly Brooklyn 2014 right there for you. Yeah, it was really, really intense.

Of course, the other, this sex scene is set, is actually really lovely and it's probably the least realistic part of it because they're dancing around. Set to the title song, the Paul Simon song, yeah. It's a very well choreographed and loving sex scene. But my whole impulse watching it was I wonder what the neighbors think about this song dancing, like, blameral. at loud volume at like 4.30 a.m. And kind of what's the volume level there? So it definitely evokes a very specific experience. Yeah. And the music is an interesting connective tissue, I think, to this new movie, Landline, which is all the, you know, it's set in 1995, as I said, the music that plays in the movie, you know, there's Breeder songs. We talked with Gillian about

the fact that she, like, couldn't get the Fugazi song in that she really wanted. She was using all these hallmarks. But even though there is some connective tissue, I feel like Landline is a, is a bigger movie. It's about a family. It's not just about one woman. It's about kind of still about the fragility of relationships, but also like what people say and don't say to each other. I know, what did you think of the movie? What do you see in it? Well, bigger is it really, it's a good word because it's just also, in terms of the references, Woody Allen was the first thing that came to my mind, but obvious child as we just demonstrated length is a very specific movie of a very specific time and a very specific person. And this is

opening it up a little bit, both in terms of history and New York. And the number of people are involved and there are kind of two, there's a, the relationship between the parents and the relationship between the sisters and the, yeah, it's broadening its scope. I, I liked it. I think Abby Quinn in particular, who's the younger sister, is just sensational. And I really love Jenny Slate. I do think that there was something so special about Abbey's child and it's so special of its direct relevance to me. Sure. That it's very hard for me to look past that. But I certainly enjoyed landline. I think the specificity of each of those characters is something that they do really well. Yeah. So what do you think about, you mentioned Woody Allen, which is, you know, that's a whole other

loaded conversation. But it's kind of a, almost a passei art form to be making character studies in big cities among families. You know, the fact that this movie even happened is pretty surprising to me. What do you think about the direction that this is going? We've talked before about the general death of the rom-com, but even the family drama feels like something that is a bygone era. Absolutely. I think this seems like an homage to me as much as it did, kind of trying to reinvent the form. And I liked it for that. I like the homage concept. Yeah. You know, I do think it's nice to see, it's nice to see that many female characters in any movie. And I think that they are each real characters, Edie Falco, Jenny Slates, and Abby Quinn's. I think I do like a domestic drama.

Frankly, I think it was possibly the divorce stuff was too close to me from another. Gileon Ropes's Bureau does a very good job of evoking specific personal situations. And there's definitely value in that. And it's nice to see it someone doing it because Lord knows there's not a ton of it. It's true. Last week I had our colleague and friend Chris Ryan on the show. Yes. We were talking about Spider-Man Homecoming. And, you know, like, what should John Watts do next. We were fantasy booking his career. Right. But like if as a fan of Gillian, like

what, what do you want to see from a Gillian Roaster type person? Do you want to see her try to do a studio comedy? Do you want to see develop a TV show? What's a good execution? Should she and Jenny keep making movies forever? So I have some very strong opinions about these. Do not make a studio comedy.

Okay. No one has made a successful studio comedy this year. It's true. It's just a bad path. Yeah. Which is a whole separate conversation, but it seems like, oh, you don't want to see people who are talented and who you like kind of go down that dead end. I would love to see her keep working with Jenny Slate. I was thinking a little bit on the way over here about there aren't that many female directors, so there aren't that many kind of female director and female actress pairings.

You know, we're very used to it on the male side of like Scorsese and Leo and, you know, Christopher Nolan and his whole menagerie. But Sophia Coppola and Kirsten Dunst is the only kind of comparison I can think of. And I love all of their films. And it's fun to watch. You can kind of compare the performances in a way and compare the stories they come up with. They're kind of creating their whole lady world. Not lady world.

Yes. Their whole world of women. Lady World was a contender for the title of the ringer. We went out with the ringer, but Lady World was a finalist. But you know, you kind of, you get to compare the choices they make, which is very exciting and pretty rare for, film just because of they don't make films about women. So I always just think they make nice films together. I think Jenny Slate and Gillian Ropesbier have like two successes, which is rare. So keep going. Just lean into what works. That's a great way to end. We're going to lean into

what works next, hopefully with this conversation. Amanda, thank you for joining me. You're very welcome. Thanks for having me. I am joined by a trio of talented people. They have a new movie called Landline. I'm here with Jenny Slate, Gillian Ropes Pierre, and Elizabeth Holm. Guys, thank you for coming in today. Thank you for having us. We're very excited. This is very cool.

So Landline is a really fun movie. It's the second movie you guys have made together. It's set in 1995 and I would like to talk about 1995 first, if that's okay with you. Sure. Why has this movie set in 1995? Were you around in 1995? Oh, God. Yes, I was.

I was a teenage boy. But it's a very resonant moment. And there's a teenage character in your movie. And so there was a lot to relate to. Cool. Yeah, 1995. I was a big year for us. Liz and I both are born and raised New Yorkers. We came of age in the 90s and New York City was our playground for sure. And also our parents got divorced in the 90s when we were teenagers. Wow, same. Yeah. And a lot of our friends' parents got divorced or we're already divorced. Not mine. My family is perfect.

Sorry. So talk about your haunted house. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. And your dad's jammies. My parents are so married. They're just possessed. So, yeah, it was loosely based on that.

And also, we wanted to free ourselves of that scene, you know, the insert shot of somebody going on Facebook and stalking their, you know, loved ones who you believe are cheating on you. Oh, that makes sense. That does remove kind of an annoying thing to have to put in every movie or TV show you make now, right? It's so ugly. I'm so tired of seeing like that shot of like a hand on a phone. I think it could be done well. And I think that it's something that a lot of writers and directors are trying to figure out how to do it properly. And I think House of Carnes does it well.

You know what just did it well is on Twin Peaks when the sheriff like pulls up his computer to Skype with the doctor. I love that part. It's like in a wooden thing in his desk. And I like have watched like rewound that scene like a few times. Yeah. Yeah, but only David Lynch could own that computer. You rewound it? Okay, well, I'm from the 90s.

What do you call it? What do you call it? You go back? Shuffle. You know, you say rewind. No, you don't say rewind anymore. What do you say? I watched, rewashed it?

I don't, there's no, there's no. Well, I rewound it. Okay. There's like mechanisms. But what's the verb? What do we call it now? Go back. I'll call a guy with DVR.

I went back in chapter. chapter back. I don't know. Okay. So you actually named the movie Landline. It's where archaic, Luddites, who are idiots fucking idiots. Is that why, though? Was the movie always going to be something about communication? Was it always going to be about divorce? It's definitely a movie about a family, you know, communicating or not and connecting or not and about humans needing to, you know, open up to each other.

And to us, landlines always kind of meant home. They're really grounded and they are sort of the hearth of the family. And also, yeah, it's an easy way to remind people it's not 2017 when the movie opens. Were you guys big, like spending three hours on the phone talking to your friends growing up? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And getting the cord like pulled out from under my door and then having to take the phone jack out to plug in the dial up that then also got taken out of my room.

Yeah. It's the sound of that AOL booting up. I'm so old. We did not have that in our house. We did not have dial-up in our house yet. We didn't have it either, but because we, like, we didn't have cable. We just didn't have that. And then we got the internet late. Like, I think we got the internet in 2000. Okay. But you got, you had ghosts though growing up. Yeah, we had the ghost for forever. Okay.

But we, I had a phone in my room, but I really didn't have a lot of friends. So it wasn't until probably like my senior year of high school or maybe junior that I was talking on the phone. Since you didn't grow up in New York, what was it like trying to figure out this character, Jenny? I mean, first of all, it's well written. So it's not, there's not a lot of mystery there. It's not like I'm playing someone from like a completely other culture or I don't understand what the references are. There's just a lot in there that is a roadmap. But, you know, I'm from a really small town in Massachusetts.

It's very woodsy. It's sort of like pastoral and New England-y. and I grew up in a really sheltered environment. Both of my parents are artists. I went to a private school. I never were anywhere by myself. And New Yorkers go a lot of places by themselves. And at once they exist in kind of a dangerous environment but are surrounded by people all the time.

And that allows for like a real sense of reality. Like there are people around. If you feel unsafe, you can say something. But also a lot of those people might not be safe people. You know, it's like you really have to kind of hedge your bets and be on your toe. and even my character Dana, who's kind of square, she's still a New Yorker. And I like that. There's that real sense of like really being on your feet.

Just like real casual independence that New Yorkers have and that I think also was kind of really amped up in the 90s. Yeah, the 90s thing in particular is really well handled. There's a lot of tactile stuff. A floppy disc is kind of the, you know, the orienting prop of the movie. Yeah. How did you guys, was it fun to go back and put those things together and figure out like the costumes and the music? Oh my God, it's so fun. How did you do it?

Did you all just get together and be like, this is my favorite breeder song? Where does that come from? Yeah, well, you know, in the script there was a lot of music cues. Some of them are still in the movie and some of them change after we shot it and started editing. Any heartbreaking cuts? Yeah, it was a Fugazi song that I really, really wanted the waiting room that I really wanted Alley to be listening to when she was breaking up with her boyfriend, you know. And we just didn't go after it because he doesn't put his songs in movies, especially movies that have drugs in them.

He's very protective of his songs, as he should be. So we have an Archers of Love song in there. And it's really nice, and I'm happy with that. But there was also, I think, a B. York song that we thought would start the movie. And on the page, it's really nice. But in reality, I think I love how we start the movie, just with the wood sounds and some grunting. Jenny, did you and did you and Abby Quinn,

who plays your younger sister in the movie, talk about the teenage experience and being in New York, given that she's a lot younger and that in a lot of, you were probably not too far from her age at that time. Yeah, I graduated from high school

in Y2K. So, yeah, I mean, my formative years were really the 90s. Abby was born in 1996. That's a year after. Yeah. We had to teach her. how to use a payphone.

Okay. Yeah. We talked about it a little bit, but really what was important was to just talk to each other about anything so that we could get a sense of each other's boundaries. You know, like, she's like a very young woman from Michigan. We didn't, you know, like, she's just a, she's a musician. She has a totally different life and family history than I do. And we're in these scenes where we have to either really care for each other or really

kind of claw at each other. and have like a really irritating dissonance. And, you know, for our characters, I think watching it, it feels kind of good to see the way that they don't match up and the way that there's friction. But I think if you're going to do that kind of thing with someone, you just have to know what their limits are in general. It's kind of like if you're going to have to go on a business trip with a colleague. Right. Is there anything? I mean, do you guys have sisters, Gillian and Liz?

We both have older brothers. And I think we're sort of the closest thing we have to sisters is each other. How much of your dynamic is between? Oh, boy. Yeah, we're eight years apart. And Dana and Ali are 10 years apart. And I think we didn't totally realize it when we were writing. But as we were filming and certainly in the edit, it became more and more a sister's movie.

And we were kind of like, oh, shit, this is more than a little bit our vibe. You would say that out loud. We'd apply to each other as hard as they do. But we push each other in writing room while creating. And sometimes there is confrontation, and then it's always followed with, you know, love and apology and respect. And I think we have a comfort with each other like sisters, but in a creative way. That's very familial. Yeah.

And we're staying in the same hotel room while we're here. We'll both like chew on the phone while talking to each other. Like that family level. But it bothers me. So the three of you, this, like I said before, this is your story. second movie. I'm curious, obvious child, such a great movie, so beloved. Did your lives change significantly after that? I kind of want to hear about that period before you started to make landline. Oh, my God, yeah. Sundance, the first time around, changed our lives 100%. Liz and I both had day jobs.

We made Obvious Child on nights and weekends, took sabbaticals from our day jobs to shoot the movie. I almost lost my job while making Obvious Child. What were your day jobs? I worked at the Director's Guild of America. Okay. Just like a very pencil pushy, non-creative job. And Liz ran the film program at Kickstarter, which was a creative job. It was a sweet job. It was fun. And it helped me make Obvious Child.

And they were very supportive. And we did a Kickstarter for Obvious Child. So. I sure did. Yeah. Not a great one. That was very good. A lot of takes.

That was pretty cool. I'm not very in front of the camera, kind of. But the movie came to life. It appeared. It appeared. And we sold it to 824. We screened at the library in like a weird. time, but everyone loved it. And we came back to New York and Liz and I went back to our day jobs

for a couple more months. I remember 824 sitting us down with me like, when are you going to quit? And I was like, I'm not just, you know, make the press schedule around my nine to five job. They're like, okay. And they sort of laughed at me. And I ended up quitting in May. Yeah, right before we went on press. Because Liz and I went and sold the idea for this movie, Landline, to a company called Adlaught on a pitch that was just about a family and of women, three women in one family and how they deal with divorce. And we were calling it untitled divorce comedy for a really, really long time. But then when we started making it and writing it, it really became something a little bit darker and no longer just this comedy. But I think a little more heart than Obvious Child has in terms of exposing many ways to,

people feel and walk through life. I think Donna was in an obvious child was dealing with one issue and something that a lot of people can relate to, which is just grappling with your early 20s and dealing with unplanned pregnancy. And we just popped into her life in that moment. And we're popping into this family's life in many moments. It's not just about divorce. It's about not communicating. It's about not knowing who you are within a relationship. It's about being in a relationship for 30 years and realizing that it's coming to an end. So we're dealing with a lot more issues and storylines than we did in Obvious Child. And Jenny, what about you after Obvious Child?

I think a lot of people said, this person's a movie star that did that. We were like, we already know. I don't know that that is really, but at least I think for me, it's weird. Like I don't, within myself, I don't define myself that way. I mean, as anything, like, or as a comedian or as whatever, as my characters that I've played, except for maybe Marcel de Shell, I actually feel like this, you know, like that. And that's why that character even exists, because that is me expressing my inner self. But I was always dealing with this thing that was like, well, when am I going to be able to show that I'm an actress? Because I'm not really showing it. You know, I'm like doing performances. I'm like going on TV and like doing things. But a lot of this stuff is, it's easy and I like it, but I want to do the thing that's like the thing that I, that's deep within me. And that's what obvious child changed for me was that I was able to access these different ways of expressing myself and performing that I hadn't been allowed to do before.

I just hadn't been allowed to do that. And I really, really wanted to. And after I did that, I felt more legitimate within a community of actors. And I felt like, and I still feel that it takes a long time to, shed the thing that's like, well, I'm not a comedian. I'm an actress. Because the fact is I'm everything. I'm also like a woman and a house tidier and a gardener and a daughter and, you know, like I'm everything. And I would like to be everything at once. But I think we live in a world where people really want to try to say what you do so that they don't feel out of control. And so that you can

serve a purpose for them. And that's, I think, a weird way to be seen. It doesn't feel good to me. So it's still something I feel like I have to work on opening, like constantly. I feel like maybe I'm projecting, but I feel like I constantly have to remind people that I am an actress. But in fact, it's probably that I have to become more comfortable with the fact that I'm an actress rather than remind other people. You know, like rather like become comfortable with the fact that something that I've wanted since I was a child is something that I have and that I've always had it. But now I'm able to use it. And I just have to, like, be thankful and more comfortable. Yeah, and it seems like with both of these movies that you guys have worked on together,

you've written characters, especially for Jenny, but for all the characters, that are difficult and complicated and make bad choices and have to contend with the ramifications of those things. And that's not, that doesn't always happen in the more pro forma Hollywood storytelling. And, you know, I suspect you're, you have to kind of figure out how to put that on screen in a very specific way. you know, did you guys know that you wanted to do something again immediately after obvious child and try to tap back into that? Yeah. I mean, I do think we like to tell stories about people that are complex or complicated or have, you know, personalities that want and feel many things at the same time. I guess I don't necessarily see what they do as making bad choices. I think we all make choices and every move we make is kind of a micro decision. that has an effect on people we love and the rest of our lives. And I guess some of those choices might create more mess or wreak more havoc than others.

But we try really hard to, you know, write our characters without judgment and with a lot of empathy for the choices people make and try and really understand everybody and where they're coming from. But yeah, I guess I guess it's a lot of people like fucking up and trying. But I think that's where, hopefully where some of the comedy comes from and, you know, definitely where a lot of the heart comes from that people seem to connect to when you can relate to that decision or lack of decision. But we definitely wanted to work together. That was our, you know, experience after obvious child. It was such a beautiful time for us, you know, collectively growing as individuals and then also as artists.

and we wanted to continue that growth with each other. Because I think three of us are really good at pushing each other and not just settling into our roles and staying there, much like this family. And we are much like a family. So we knew we wanted to do it again. We wanted to try new things, write new things for Jenny, where she wasn't playing the same character, that she did an obvious child, push her, push each other in the writing room. Setting it in the 90s was something that was, you know, more difficult to do as a director because you had to frame it in a certain way.

New York City doesn't look like the 90s. There's a lot more moving parts with an ensemble and working with more actors and pushing myself that way. And I think that that growth is really exciting and why I'm in filmmaking is to collaborate with really smart, amazing women. Was it harder? Harder or easier the second time around doing it? Both? Yeah, I mean, for many reasons. Yeah, it's just a different, it was hard for many reasons,

but also wonderful for many reasons. Like, with obvious child, I was kind of like the only person really in that movie. I mean, there are other people in it, but like... You were in every single frame. I spent most of the time on set feeling like I was either in a personal interaction that was more felt alone or, like, or, like, with someone who was just there for the day. You know, like the Polly Draper who played my mom, I think we had like two days with her.

Yes. You know, like that's nothing. And it's not a lot. Or even Jake Lacey who played Max, I feel like he had five days. Well, the whole movie we shot in 18 days. That's true. None of it was a lot of time. My experience of that felt pretty solo.

But each day was like, you know, 12 to 14. Yeah. Whereas, you know, so this was different and that was really nice to be in more of an unsublished. ensemble thing, but there is pressure coming back in and you just have to acknowledge that. I think it's weird to be like, no, there's none. It doesn't, you know, because there is. And that's fine. It's, I think you got to be curious about that.

And then readjust so that you can do your work in a way that isn't like panicked or cheap or like that you end up posturing in one way or another because that stuff spreads. I think it really does. And then also like personally, I was getting divorced while we were making this movie. So it was just really hard. It was really hard to make a movie about a woman who's questioning her own belief system within her partnership and isn't sure of what her voice can be. And who is. And also in general, I think, you know, there are three women in this movie.

And in one way or another, they all feel a little bit silenced or unseen. And they're all major talkers. They all have a lot of energy. And it's odd that they would feel that way. And in one way or another, they are rejecting that. You know, Ali, especially, she feels that there's silence, that the truth is being withheld. She's constantly telling people that they're hypocrites and that they're not saying what needs to be said. And she becomes rather jaded by seeing this over and over again that people are hiding their truth.

And Dana, my character, is really suffering because her truth is really starting to bloom within her. and she doesn't know if she's allowed to acknowledge it. And I think personally I was coming into this film being like, everything just fell apart for me. The only truth that I know in my life is that I don't like know what's going on. Do you say that to Liz and Gillian and when you guys are writing the script? Do those things collide in any meaningful way? Well, when they wrote the movie, I was still married.

And honestly, had a lot of faith in working through it. And so I didn't know I would be coming in and being like without that relationship anymore. But when they were writing this script, we had a lot of talks about making sure that Dana's story in the end has basically nothing to do with who she ends up with, but in fact, where she lands and whether or not she seems like a person who has learned that it's her right to grow and change. and that if she's in a partnership where she feels that she can't ask the questions she needs to ask, then that's when she should move on. But that a partnership is worth it if your partner will grow with you. And Jay's character, he plays Ben, Jay Duplas, plays Ben, my boyfriend, in the film. Fiancé.

His whole thing was like, you never even gave me a chance. You never even asked me anything. And what I love about their partnership is that it's disappointment on equal sense. It's not like he was the weak and boring and she's needy and horny or something, you know. There are actually just two people who have done the thing that a lot of long-term relationships kind of do, which is you bond, you're delighted by that bond, you spend years together, you build a life, and then suddenly you confuse stasis for stability and you feel grossed out and scared.

And a lot of times another person can come in and make you. you feel fresh and you're just like running towards that breeze. And that's not sustainable. And, you know, you mentioned the ensemble and that exact dynamic is represented really in Edie Falco and John Totoro's characters' relationships too. And you can see Jenny's character kind of casting forward and thinking about what can happen to her life. And then you look at Abby in the relationship that she, her character is in.

You know, one, the cast is incredible. So I'd love to hear a little bit about how you guys got it. It's Edie, especially I thought it was just wonderful in the movie. Yeah, she's amazing. And also just how what it was like to write those characters and how to fit them together. You know, it is a little bit of a classical James L. Brooksie kind of like this all works together thing. Yeah, we love James L. It's just like Spanglish.

It's a coffee machine though. You don't know how to work. And everyone's always like, get out of the wind. Why do I know that movie? I know. I never see it. That's how you know maybe it's better than you think. Yay.

In terms of getting this amazing cast, I think we did one thing. And really one thing only, which is we sent them the script. And they read it and they connected to it. And then I just met with Edie at a coffee shop. And I think she just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy. We had the same crazy check meeting with John as well. And then I had tea with John in his apartment, well, in his brownstone. And we were both recovering from colds, listening to NPR and just talking about relationships and politics.

And again, just, you know, making sure that I wasn't crazy. Can you see the look in their eye when they have accepted you and they say, I want to work with this person? Do you know that by now? I think they were relieved that I wasn't a baby. Even, you know, even though you can see on my Wikipedia page, my age, I think a young woman and it's their second film, you're just curious to make sure that they feel legit. But they also were fans of Obvious Child. Both John and Edie watched Obvious Child and kind of fell in love with that, I think.

after reading the script, which is nice. And we worked with great casting directors, Doug Abel and Stephanie Holbrook, who are based in New York. And, you know, I've worked on many Kenny Laudergan films, Wes Anderson films. The Doom Mozart in the Jungle. They've done a lot of amazing stuff.

And have a really good sense of authentic humans. It was really important to us to have this be a real family that looked and felt like a real family down to Jenny and Abby and John. amazing curly hair on screen. Yeah, and that these were real New Yorkers and that you just bought this, you know, long history and intimacy and familiarity. And luckily, John and Edie had that because they were friends. John's cousin was on Sopranos and they've had many Thanksgiving together,

but never been in a movie. They both are, you know, actors who came up in the 90s in New York as well. So they had an intimacy before we were ever rolling. it was friendship and their characters had that deep friendship. They didn't have love or any longer, but the friendship and the respect had to be underneath all of those very brutal fight scenes. Yeah, they're also like a tactile, credible New York couple. You know, I feel like New York parents in a specific way.

What happens when you show a movie like this that is so specific and has a lot of feeling and emotional confusion to your families? Are they drawing conclusions? from what you're writing or how do you communicate about that? I've got very proud New York parents who are so excited for me. And we also had a very long conversation before I sent them the link. What was in that? Just hear this is what this is going to be about?

Yeah. You know, that there will be some things that they recognize. But it's, you know, a story that took off once we were in the writing room and it's written by two women. and it's not just you guys on screen. It's really about a family that Liz and I created based off of our childhoods and the people that we were watching, the closest were our parents and our siblings. But it became something else. We were also observing life around us and other people's parents and how our friends, you know, dealt with divorce and growing up in New York. And it's based on so many experiences and also a lot of made-up things.

So, you know, they heard it and they watched it and they felt proud. Of course, there were always questions like, am I really like that? I'm like, Mom, that's not you, you know, and just reassuring her. But they're so proud. And I'm, you know, happy that they just have been very excited about me being a filmmaker and very a force behind that since I was a kid. Liz, what about you? Can I tap out of answering so much?

Sure. That's why I was talking so long. Killing it is. I was fine. Yeah, it's hard. There's a lot that's very personal. And as Kalyan said, a lot of our own experiences. I think underneath at all, I know my parents are proud.

And sure, all the same questions. Am I really like that? Do you really think that, well, will my friends think? But again, you know, you start with what you know and then try and create something new. And for me, the movie was very personal for my own experience and, like, connecting so closely with Allie's character and her journey and, you know, writing this summer I was getting married, connecting with Dana's questions and the idea of really needing to actively choose your choice, you know, were all things that I was thinking about. So sometimes when I talk to my parents about it, I'm like, what about me? Like, forget your feel with it. But I think it is a kind of movie that is hopefully so relatable that everybody thinks we've had like nanny cams in their apartments and that this is about a lot of people.

And often we do get. They say that. Yeah, people come up to us after the screening. Or a CD skip while I was having sex, you know, as a teenager. And those are actual things that people have said to us after screenings. So it is universal, even though it's loosely. based on our little universe. So to wrap up, what happens next to you guys do something else?

Are you going to work together again? Well, Jenny, we'll have to go through a rigorous audition process. Yeah. I hope that we work together again. I will always show up if they ask me to. Are you guys writing anything right now? No. Well, you know, thinking about stuff.

But I just directed two episodes of a Hulu show called Casual. And I'm directing two episodes of an HBO show called crashing, but always, you know, writing in my head and thinking of new fucked up things to say. That's probably a good place to end. Jenny Slate, Gilead, Gilead Ropes-Pierre, Elizabeth Holm, thank you very much for joining me today. Thank you for having us.