The Press Box - 'The Big Picture' — Modern Horror and ‘It Comes at Night’ Director Trey Edward Shults (Ep. 318)

Episode Date: June 8, 2017

Ringer editor-in-chief Sean Fennessey and film critic K. Austin Collins discuss the emergence of modern horror films like ‘The Witch’ and the increasing emphasis on tone over standard horror tropes (1:00). Then, Sean is joined by Trey Edward Shults, who explains how working through his own darkness led to making his latest film, ‘It Comes At Night’ (15:50). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Dolby Voice. Today's offices need work spaces that allow small teams to collaborate effectively. Enter the huddle rooms, small conference areas designed for meetings. For effective collaboration, huddle rooms need capabilities like video conferencing. Even with great video capabilities in place, a lousy audio experience can derail otherwise productive huddle meetings. Dolby Voice and the Dolby Conference phone solved that problem. Dolby Voice and the Dolby Conference phone delivers stunning audio clarity, 360-degree audio capture. that allows everyone to be heard and make meetings easy to follow and participate in.

The results, conversations that flow naturally. When conversations flow, decisions get made, innovation increases, and even widely dispersed teams become more effective. Dolby Voice and Dolby Conference phone are also integrated with leading video conferencing solutions like Blue Jeans Huddle. Visit Dolby.com backslash the ringer to try a Dolby Voice demo today. Hello and welcome to The Big Picture, a channel 33 movies podcast. My name is Sean Fennacy. I'm the editor-in-chief of The Ringer. I'm very happy to be joined today by a... Trey Edward Schultz, director of the new movie It Comes at Night.

But first, before we talk to Trey, we're going to be joined by Ringer staff writer and film critic and thoughtful person all around K. Austin Collins. Cam, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me. Yeah, this is great. Thank you. So, Cam, you know, like I said, I talked to Trey, and I want to talk a little bit about it comes at night as new movie, which is a sort of a horror movie of sorts that essentially follows a family living in a cabin in what seems like a post-apocalyptic time, a disease of some kind, has trapped this family in close quarters. And then there are some, I guess you could say,

unwelcome guests that arrive. It's not a conventional horror movie, though, by any means. It's very claustrophobic. It's very true to Trey's first movie, Cretia. You know, I'm curious what you think of Trey's work and kind of how you describe the first two movies he's made. Well, first of all, I went into this feeling pretty gratified that he made a horror movie because my impression from Kresha, which is basically a movie about an estranged family member who comes back for Thanksgiving after 10 years and, you know, hilarity ensues and things go crazy. I remember thinking when I saw that for the first time, the way he kind of moves the camera, the way he evokes these sort of weirdly uncomfortable moods would have been perfect for a horror movie.

He kind of made a horror movie out of domestic drama. So I feel, I'm glad that he actually went more in that direction. Although I'm with you on the sort of horror movie part. And I wonder if maybe we can talk about that because I walked away from it, not as sure that it was like a pure horror movie as I thought it was going to be. Not that I wasn't scared, but I'm a scared cat, so that's not a good measure of any. I'm scared of a lot of things. You're right, though.

It doesn't do conventional horror movie stuff. There's not very many jump scares. There's really only one kind of dream sequence that you can speak of that really leans into some of the conventions of some of this stuff. And he's a mood filmmaker. You know, he's somebody who's trying to get you wound tightly and waiting for something terrible to happen. And, you know, sometimes he delivers on that. And Kresia, memorably, for those who haven't seen it, there's an epic, horrifying moment

where a turkey falls. That's all I'll say. A beautiful turkey. A delicious-looking turkey. Glistening, well-based. Yeah. So he has a real knack for building towards the moment, but it comes a night doesn't always deliver on that moment

the way that you want it to. Right, right. And, you know, does his filmmaking remind you of anybody? Are there people that you think are working in that zone that, because, you know, a lot of modern horror, especially with the rides, a lot of the Blumhouse stuff, has, is thoughtful and is well-made, but is not afraid to lean into some of the classic tricks of the trade.

Right, right. I mean, this is almost unfair because this movie came out from A24, and a recent horror movie that also came out from A24 was The Witch. And I like this one a bit more than The Witch, but they're similar to me in that they're very much about whatever they're actually about, they're really about mood. And they're really about how much the images can, how much you can get the images to really pull out of a situation.

situation, like how much you can really tease the horror at the outskirts and make things mysterious without really ever... I mean, in The Witch, there's a moment where, like, a witch, like, kills a baby or something that was pretty terrifying. But other than that, like, the mood, it's really, it's really about mood. It's about what you in the audience are feeling because of the things you're seeing and not seeing rather than because of things popping out of you, out at you, and things getting too, too gory. This is really not that kind of movie, but it is like, you know, I mean, you see

lesions and, you know, the, whatever this disease is, is disgusting. But it's not the same kind of, you know, it's much more of a mood thing than an outright scare thing, which is why I think horror is such an odd, I mean, it's the appropriate category, but it's, it's not the kind of horror movie, I think, going into a movie that I'm being told as a horror movie. And I wonder how people are going to respond to that. I've been thinking about that, too, the way the movie's been marketed, obviously makes it feel a little bit more traditional than it actually is. The witch is an interesting comparison, though, right? Because in some ways, those stories are very similar. They're about families who have sort of closed themselves off from society, who are then waging some sort

of battle against an outside unknown force. Right. So there is something to that for sure. And I mean, I think the reason maybe this works better for me than the witch is because family bonds and family tension are clearly his thing. You know, Kresha was interesting in part for being, you know, starring his actual aunt, being based on an event in his own life. I think it was something like a cousin relapsing at a family reunion was the basis for the story of Kresia. And you could just sort of, and I think it starred some people that he was related to as well. You can just sort of, and he's in it. And you can just sort of tell that it's very personal. that the things that he's working out are things that he has thought about because he's been in them before.

And I think what he carries into this movie is, and what's best about this movie for me, is just a lot of attention to the interactions and the trust between family units versus, you know, in this movie, a second family comes up and how those families interact. The innate loyalty you have to someone you're related to, even as things are happening that maybe break that bond. You know, those kinds of questions are the things that really make his movies interesting for me. Even more so than the quote-unquote horror stuff, it's really about, like, you know, Joel Edgerton was a history teacher

and now he has a gun and a family and a family and a bunker and, you know, the things he's willing to do to get some chickens. You know, it's... That's the interesting stuff. The bonds between people, I think, is what's... standing out for that for me. Yeah, and I think Trey and I talked a little bit about the Shining,

and there's something to that too, the sort of, as people turn on each other and in closed spaces and as paranoia seeps in, is more of a trope than you might think when you're watching this movie, but he's also such a visually striking director, but he doesn't do something. He also talked about, like,

there will be blood. He talked about a lot of operatic movies, and he doesn't always operate in that, vein. He doesn't always hit you with the I'm finished climactic bowling pin scene. Right. Right. You know, it's funny because when this movie ended, and obviously I won't give away the ending, even as I saw it kind of going to that place, I think he, he denies you both like the easy satisfaction of the ending, but he pulls something off, and I don't really know how to put it to words. He pulls something off that makes the movie much sadder to me because you kind of wind

realizing what the movie is about, which is not really the premise, the horror premise. It's about something a little bit richer and more personal. I really thought of the thing, the John Carpenter, 1982 movie. And I believe he's raised this in interviews as well. It's like the space that you're all in and you're all paranoid of each other. And yeah, there might be a monster, but it's really about how that monster recalibrates how you're relating to everyone else that's in this tight space with you. And I just, I mean, I love the thing.

So any movie that evokes that in any way is on my good side. Because I think the thing is smart about that. It's not about the monster. It's about us. It is. It's sort of like we're working at a website, you know. We're all on Slack together, communicating. And just the wrong moment.

It's like a website, but what's the plague? I think it's just the impending doom of things happening that you have to write about, you know? Yeah, amen. Yeah, amen. Well, Cam, are there any other horror movies in recent times that, you know, you wanted to discuss? Obviously, you wrote quite well about Get Out earlier this year. I think we find ourselves in an interesting moment for the genre. You know, I think it's imperfect, but a movie that my mind goes back to a lot is unfriended.

I think ultimately unfriended, like, you know, I don't think teenage problems are like, it's too recent for me. Like it's like the trauma of reliving high school drama is like somehow not something I ever want to revisit in a movie. But what I really like about that movie is that it is that it just finds its own language to do that. You know, like it becomes just the computer screens. And I think it, you know, it gets a little cheesy and I don't think the ending really works. But I love the audacity of it, I guess. It's a movie I think about a lot. It's not like the best movie.

And I also, even though I didn't love it. the witch. I think about the witch a lot too. I think we should have more horror movies about early America because it was crazy out there. That's an interesting contrast to unfriended is maybe the most modern execution. Yeah, absolutely.

What scares us and the potential of what terrifies us. And the witch is sort of like what is then the origins of our pain and our suffering. Yeah, absolutely. And actually relative to it comes at night in a way it follows, which for me always was most striking for all the familial subtext of the main character,

like the missing father, the mother who you hear but don't really see. Like that movie is as much about family bonds and friend bonds for me as it is about this, you know, this unkillable, unstoppable force. And then, I mean, you know, I love horror movies. I see bad ones. For whatever reason, I still think about the bye-bye man. I do not know why. So the bye-bye-by-man, that's a movie that came out earlier this year.

What was the by-by-man about? The by-by-man, it's like if you say the name the bye-by man, it like he or it comes after you and haunts you, and eventually it's like you either killing everyone or killing yourself. I even like sort of forget the concept. I just remember people being driven crazy and wanting to kill. But it's funny how that manifests itself. And it was, it, Louis has its mares.

I'm not going to defend it or anything, but I am. I mean, even bad horror movies. It's just a genre for me. where even if they're bad, I don't usually walk away from them not having gotten anything out of them, you know? I don't really feel that way about every genre, I have to say. I feel very similarly. I tend to consume almost every type of horror movie, which is an interesting thing.

It makes that, it makes the genre sort of impervious to the vagaries of the business, the vagaries of criticism. There's something visceral about the experience that people, if you're a fan, are sort of unable to deny? Yeah, right. I mean, if I was scared at all, I mean, I'm an easy mark, but if I was scared at all, it's going to stick with me. Because fear is something that my mind always goes back to, and I remember about every horror movie, what scared me. And I don't really feel that way about, even genres that I really love more, heart movies really stick with me in a way. And I think it comes at night in particular, I'm going to keep thinking about the red door. I'm going to keep thinking about the hallway.

The cinematographer here, Drew Daniels, I think, is the name. is doing some really impressive stuff. I'm going to think about light in this movie. Trey and I talked about the Red Door quite a bit. I mean, it is kind of a terrifying concept behind it. And don't want to spoil it for the audience. But yeah, it's, you know, there's something visually incredibly powerful about what he did, no matter how you feel about the way that he told the story.

Absolutely. And I have to say, like, plague movies or plagues generally, I think very quickly become very try or like zombie stuff all that stuff i think very quickly it's very uninteresting and i think he finds a way to really instill this with a weirdness and a dread that felt evocative and unique and fresh for me and i you know that's exciting you know well cam that's a good place to wrap it up thank you very much for chatting with me and uh talk to you soon talk to you soon all right thanks to cam collins and when we come back i'll be talking to director tre Edward shultz The big picture is brought to you by Proper Cloth.

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Dolby Conference phone brings full room, 360-degree audio capture. Dolby Voice and the Dolby Conference phone delivers stunning audio quality that allows everyone to be heard and makes meetings easy to follow and participate in. The result is conversations that flow naturally. When conversations flow, decisions get made, innovation increases, and even widely dispersed teams become more effective. Dolby Voice and Dolby Conferencefront are also now integrated with leading video conferencing solutions such as Blue Jeans Huddle. You have to hear it to believe it. Check out Dolbyvoiced today. Visit Dolby.com backslash the ringer for a free demo. That's Dolby.com backslash the ringer. Trey, thank you for being here with me today. Thank you for having me,

man. So it comes a night as your second film. It's kind of a horror movie, though I've heard you redefine that. How do you explain the movie to people? Oh, I'm probably the worst to explain the movie to people. Great, I'm glad you're here. I don't know, man. I would say it's a personal horror movie, and it's not a conventional horror.

That's what I tell everyone when the first thing anyone wants to know. I'm like, it's not a conventional horror movie. It's a movie that comes from a deeply personal place, and I took that stuff and put it into a totally... fictional narrative. And I think it has a lot on its mind. I don't know. I'm always very vague when I talk about movies I do.

That's good, though. So I described Kresha, your last film as the scariest movie that I saw last year. Oh, that's amazing. But it's not, it's also not a traditional horror movie. I'm curious for you why you take these enclosed environments, these claustrophobic settings, these personal familial bonds, and use them as a way to talk about sort of what scares you or what it is can be anxious? It's a good question.

I'm not quite sure why I've gravitated to that so far. But yeah, man, I don't know. It's probably just a combination of my tastes and personal stuff. You know, both it comes at night in Cresia. They come from very personal places and dark places in my family and relationships with family members. And with Creisha, it was more addiction with, like, my dad or my grandma or my cousin. And then with night, it was death. And it was, like, losing my dad.

And that's where, that's where everything began from that personal place and, like, confronting mortality for the first time in my life and, like, really changing things. And that was, like, the building block that led to everything else. So it comes at night is essentially a disease, anxiety drama. You know, it seems like the world has been overtaking. and somehow with this virus of some kind that is making people sick. Obviously you're relating that to a personal experience that you have. Are you thinking more

specifically about how things are affecting the world that you're building or are you focused strictly on the story and the characters that you want to tell? At least with this, because I feel like every movie's been different so far. I haven't really done much. But with Knight, it like dushed out of me. Like, I lost my dad to cancer and we had a messed up relationship.

I hadn't seen him in like over 10 years. years because he battled addiction and things are bad and I just like cut off our relationship. And then I saw him for the first time in 10 years on his deathbed full of regret. And I just tried to help him find any kind of peace I could. And it was like I said before, like after that day, my life changed. Like I saw things differently and it was my first time really confronting death. And with this, two months after that, I sat down and I wrote the opening scene. and it was what Sarah says to her dad is what I said to my dad,

and it just came from there. But then this totally fictional thing spilt out after that. And then that's just where it started. Then obviously it's not like you make the movie right after that. Like I didn't film the movie another like two or three years or like over two years after that. So you have time to think about your world and everything after that. But for me, with this one especially, it really started from there. Khrisha is a similarly personal story that features a lot of,

of members of your family as the actors, you're in the film. I want you to kind of contextualize for listeners what the process was like getting that from the short film stage and so much of what you did and what it was like to work so closely with people that were so close to you on something so personal. Totally. And it was, it was, Creche was actually such a long journey because I tried to make the feature back in 2012 with $7,000 of my own money I'd saved and we shot in five days. And I had a nervous breakdown behind closed doors.

It was like one of the worst weeks of my life. Just like I knew we weren't getting a feature. And it mattered. I cared about it deeply. And I knew it wasn't working. But I like trekked on and did it. And then basically I spent two years with that footage and I turned it into a short film that I actually felt proud of. And in that time, like before that short film played South By, I wrote the script for It Comes at Night.

Like I lost my dad. I was going through that. And I wrote that. And like, that was what I was. wanted to make next but like with the short film of crecia no one cared i mean it had a great reception at south by i was expecting investors to just be like what's your movie here's money and no one cared no one came up so like i just had no practical way of making that movie and then i started thinking about crecia and the short and like how i loved that short but how much more the feature could be

and what i always envisioned and how that's not in the short the short is like 15 minutes of intensity and the feature has a whole other range of emotions and digs deeper. And so after that, I rewrote the feature. And then we filmed that. And that time, I took everything. I learned from the short film and did it right. You know, I got the right. We still, we made that feature for like 30, $35,000.

So still a really low budget. We shot, I think, in nine days. And, you know, we got family members, friends, all mesh together. Best Week of My Life. Incredible experience. We knew we were making something special. And then that whole journey happened. And then Cresia, luckily, people dug it.

And then the kind folks at like A-24 saw Cresia, they were like, what do you want to do? I sent them the script I had already written for night. And they were like, oh, yeah, we want to make this. So it was like simple and easy. And we did that. And then my big thing going from Cresia tonight was like, it's got to be different. I got to challenge myself in a new way. For starters, my family can't be in it.

And I got to get professional actors. And that's what I did. And what I ended up finding out is like it wasn't that different from making Kretia. I want to ask you about that. Before we talk about it. Of course. Take me back. So you make the short film of Kretia and it doesn't get exactly the response that you wanted to get.

Yeah. It does seem like a strange choice to double down and say, I'd need to make this three times as long. And I need to really get more money involved and more family involved. What would have happened if that didn't work? Where would you be? I have no idea. Probably still working for my dad. still writing, still just like studying, I mean, I'm still studying, but you know what I mean,

just like hustling, wanting to make something. I feel like I would have made something else by now. I have no idea what that would have been, though. What were you doing before the short film? I've read that you spent some time working for Terrence Malick. What is that experience like before you're able to make your own projects trying to glean what you can in Texas? Totally. Well, it's a long, wacky story. I basically, when I was 19, I was in college for a year, And then I went to Hawaii for the summer to live with my aunt, Kresha. And she does a lot of voice work. And she was connected with, like, the industry there.

And I worked on a lot of commercials and stuff just so I could be around on sets. A whole long story, I, like, lucked out and got on a Terrence Malick movie as an intern, which was not really, it was like second unit footage for a Terrence Malick movie, essentially. It was like the birth of the universe sequence and Tree of Life. And then the new movie he's released, it ended up being voyaged. of time. And I got on that as a kid not knowing anything. And then the whole long story, the film loader taught me how to load film. And I started loading film and the DP liked me and he got me on all the other shoots and we got along. And then I was like, I'm not going to go back

to college right now. And I went to like Chile in Monterey and Iceland and Utah. And, you know, I was like 19 turning 20 and like, this is dope. And then I interned for Terry for. a bit and then went back home, but I had to go back home and work for my dad because I wasn't getting paid money to do that. And then in, you know, between doing that and then working on another Terrence Malick movie, working on a Jeff Nichols movie, but then working for my dad for money and then studying movies and doing that as my film school, I basically just like dropped out of college and like made film my life and like did my own film school and then worked on stuff when I could and then did what I had to do to make money.

What do you learn from Malik? He's such a mysterious character. Totally. What was that like being on set with him? And what do you pick up in that experience? Yeah, I thought it was amazing. And he makes movies in a totally unorthodox way. And he's an amazing guy and has an amazing energy.

But the big thing I picked up is like, don't try to make a movie like Terry does. You would be a fool to do that. So I don't do that. But if anything, what I took from him is, I think, just his, like, creative energy, you know, and how he searches and how he pushes to not do the norm, you know, and look outside of that and find that right energy and channel it. That's interesting. A good segue to talking about Joel Edgerton and movie stars.

What was that like for you to work with people who are, say, not your aunt? It wasn't different at all. It was like, okay, the difference is, you. you don't know these people in the city. Like, you don't know what makes them tick. It's not as intimate as it is if you're directing your mom or your aunt. But for me,

what was always huge is, like, making that jump from going with working family, with family and friends to people I don't even know is, like, I need to feel like they're good human beings. And, like, as soon as I sat down with Joel,

like, I just felt like he was a good person and I knew him and I loved him. And he brought Chris over in that same meeting. Christopher Abbott, who's always also in the film. And it was just so natural and right. And it's our first meeting and we're all just like hanging out and enjoying it. And I'm like, this feels good.

And then the rest of the casting was like that. I had to, you know, be a fan of their work, obviously, but like feel they were good people and excited and just good vibes. And by the end of the first week of shooting, it felt like that it was a bigger production than Creisha. It's still a small movie in the scheme of things. But like by the end of the first week, it felt like Creisha. We had crew and cast. like Joel sweating his ass off or I don't know if I can curse you can say more

you can curse more awesome sweating his ass off in between takes and he's like let's do another one it's gonna be amazing and crew and everyone just being like really passionate and like the my dolly grip who amazing guy he was like shocked I would talk to him and like just explain the emotion of the camera and why it needs to move this way and like feel the scene and he was like I'm just like most directors won't even look at me

and they like go right to the DP and like thank you for that and thank you. So for me, it was like, even though it wasn't family, these were all strangers and this was a bigger thing. I want us all to feel like a family. I don't know if that's possible on bigger movies. This was still a smaller thing, but that's how it felt. And it was really beautiful.

Was there any anxiety that came with having, say, more than $35,000 to make a movie? A little bit, sure. When you get into it, like, you're just making a movie. Like, going to set the first day. And, like, I think for me, it was like the beginning of each week going to. set, it's like, oh, I got a long week ahead of me. So there's that. And then there's, you'll have a day or something where maybe something's not going right. You don't quite know what it is and all these people are standing around and you're supposed to have the answer and you don't. There's stuff like

that. But in general, it's like with Kresha, even though it was, you know, my friends and family and a small crew just making a movie at our house, like we were still making a movie. And I think no matter what scale you do, you're still making a movie. And when you really dig into it, it's kind of the same thing. What did you do to prepare for this movie? Do you watch horror films? Do you watch claustrophobic stories? Are you reading things? What happens ahead of time? Yeah. With this one, it was interesting. It was just like kind of drawing on a variety of different things. Like, first off, it was my dad's death. And then I was also reading books on genocide. Wow.

And there's this broigal painting that's in the movie called The Triumph of Death and like that being an inspiration. So there's like those were sort of core things right there, non-film related. I should say you're a very friendly, affable man. And that is a, those are the three most intense things. I was in a very dark state of mind when I wrote it. And like I've been trying to figure out because like people have been asking me. It's like, why do you connect your dad's death with books on genocide? And for me, what it was was like the regret that he felt, you know.

And like me realizing my biggest fear now is to be in that situation he was at and like facing death and feeling regret. And then that leads to me thinking like, okay, there's worse things than death. And worse is like losing your humanity in the process. And that leads to like thinking about genocide and cycles of violence and how we keep repeating this stuff. And those were the things that I was really playing with. like obsessed with and thinking about when I wrote night. And visually you capture some of the iconography burning of bodies and things that, you know, are resonant from that.

And even like the way I see it too is like the house is, if you want me to get pretentious for a second, I see like the house is like the microcosm for the society. And then it's these two families in this house. And these families are like tribes, you know? Like us as humans, we've been on the earth for so long. Like the majority of that time like ingrained in us is like a tribal mentality. You know, and our tribe versus yours. And I think if things continue to get worse and, like, we continue to destroy ourselves and push and push into that situation,

we're just going to loop back to where we came from and it's going to get more and more primal. So, like, I always saw Knight as, like, a cautionary tale in that way. How many questions do Joel Edgerton or Carmen Nishogo have about, you know, what you're thinking about? And do they want the story explain to them in any significant way? They want their character explained to them? Yeah, that's a good question. and every actor's different and every actor has their own process, which was awesome to see and really fascinating,

just to see how they work. What is it like trying to create dread? There's an amazing ominous feeling through both of your movies, and I'm curious how you approach that kind of thing. I don't know. I think it's honestly more of an intuitive thing. Honestly, the movie I watched most while making night was there will be blood. And like I've seen that movie so many times and just like the tone and mood of that movie instills.

I remember I took my mom to that movie and saw it in the theater and it blew our mind. Like at the end we were just sitting in silence like what did we just watch? But she loved it. She loved it too. And we like had to talk about it after. You know, it's not like I have this preconceived map on like this is how I'm going to do dread. It just sort of naturally comes out that way. And when I start writing and seeing the story visually and how I'm going to shoot it and thinking about the music, like I'll build a whole track list of music and how that's very important to me.

And I think they're all adding up to the final atmosphere that's going to come out with the movie, with the film when an audience sees it. So like Kretia, a lot of it comes at night, takes place inside of one home. Do you think that the intimacy that you're sort of forcing upon the setting, it builds towards that? Do the actors feel like, God, I've been in this one room for five days. in a row and it's making me feel a certain way? I think it depends. It depends on like the scene we're doing or something or like the certain situation. But yeah, I don't know.

I mean, this movie even more so, like there were literally boards on all the windows. You know, it's like even more claustrophobic than Grisha was, even though we do leave the house at a point. But yeah, I think that's got to be in it. And I also, I love like psychodrama and like chamber dramas and stuff. So I just gravitate towards that. But the next thing I want to do, I can't, like, I'm not going to do another single location. I got to get out there.

I was going to ask you, will, will claustrophobic dread be your signature going forward? No, not. I mean, not at all. And I don't even know what my signature is. Like, right now, all I'm going to do is try to make movies that I care about with my heart and my soul and put everything I have into them. And that could be anything. Like, the next thing I want to do is, like, kids in high school and a family over a year.

and I want it to like flow like a piece of music like boogie nights or goodfellers or something and and so like just saying that price sounds totally different from night but in my head they're all the same thing you know but I do feel like like I haven't fully expressed myself yet like I've only I've only done bits and I just got to keep you know doing my stuff so I can show more that I want to do and that I love and everything did you always want to do this what kind of movies did you think you'd be making oh I have no idea that's a good question When I was a kid, what it started out with was like aliens and Terminator and diehard and like the best like action movies. And like the first time I saw aliens, I snuck the videotape and watched it on loop all night long.

And then my dad woke up and when the sun was rising. I had to act like I was sleeping. That has some relationship with your, I mean, there's a claustrophobic dread in that movie. Totally. Totally. And well, it's funny because like even like night sort of has like an action sequence and stuff. And like I kind of see childhood stuff. that I love coming through and it comes at night, which is weird.

But then when I got older, I saw stuff like, I remember the first time I saw Clockwork Orange or Raging Bull. And it blew my mind. And that was the first time I saw movies in a new way. Like the first time I saw Raging Bull, I was like, this isn't Rocky. I don't know if I like it. But I can't stop watching it. And it really did something to me. But then I got obsessed and I kept watching it.

Now it's one of my favorite movies ever. You said you saw There Will Be Blood with Your Mom, which is a heartwarming story. Do you come from a very film literate family? No, not at all. My mom and my stepdad are both therapists. And then my biological father that passed away, he was the one that always took me to action movies. He grew me up on action movies, westerns he was obsessed with.

He didn't like Artie's stuff. And then my mom and my stepdad's the same way. He's like, when I'm explaining it comes at night, I'm like, it's not a conventional horror movie. and stuff, he was like, yeah, just sell tickets, get butts and seats. And that's not me at all. But then my mom, like, she, I feel like I got her around on, like, stuff I love. Like, I started taking her to, like, there will be blood or, like, I remember what else.

They took her to, like, Blue Valentine or, like, sort of. Only the most heartwarming stories. Yeah, exactly. We would, like, watch those movies together and cry and, like, feel the emotions and everything. So, yeah, I don't know. This is an unusual scenario where I'm talking to someone about their mother, but I know, I feel like I know your mother. I've seen your mother on film. Exactly.

I can picture her in my mind's eye. There you go. So tell me a little bit about what it's like now to be a working filmmaker. Sure. I suspect that it's a lot different from where you were three years ago. Yeah. How do you balance, you know, making choices, figuring out how you want to be perceived, what projects to do, what does it like to have all of that in front of you right now?

Well, it's a good point because it's so interesting. I, like, sometimes I have to remind myself, like, you know, feel good, buddy. you're in a different, but like I have a personality where I'm like at competition with myself and I'm never satisfied. Three years ago, my dream, I was like, I was broke working for my dad. I seemed like a crazy person with a fantasy of making movies one day. Everyone thought I was nuts. I was a weirdo living with my parents.

All I wanted in the world was to be able to just like make any kind of living doing what I love. And then currently I'm doing that. So I hope I get to keep doing that. But now that I'm here, I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I haven't done enough. I'm not working hard enough. I haven't tried enough.

So it's also like a weird jump to go from that to this. And like now I'm sitting here talking to you about a movie I made is still a bit surreal. But I always go back to I'm not, I'm just going to do stuff that I believe in with all my heart and soul. And that will lead the right way, you know. So whatever that is. Like right now I'm not going to do anything unless like it's what I love and I have to do. And I hope I just get to keep doing that. That would be incredible.

Did you move to Los Angeles? No, I live in Florida. I went from Texas to Florida. What is that? What part of Florida? Right now we're in Orlando. Before we were in South Florida, about 30 minutes from Miami, and my girlfriend's from Florida. So for a while, for a long time, I was living at my parents' house where we shot Kresia because we were so broke.

And then for a bit, it was my girlfriend and I and our three cats crammed in my bedroom upstairs, which is the end bedroom where Carisha crawls into her son's room and everything. That was like exactly how my bedroom was, which was great, but like we had to get, we couldn't live there for too much longer. And then, but we were still broke. So we went to South Florida. And my girlfriend's grandma gave us like a cheap apartment that she owned. But then I got paid a little bit of money for night.

So we moved to Orlando and got a decent apartment. So one step of time. I don't know. That's amazing. So how do you pursue your career from Orlando, Florida? Is that difficult? Actually, so far what I love is that it's away from L.A. and New York, and it's away from the bullshit. Because I think in, you know, in this industry, there's a lot of bullshit. And for me, it just grounds me. And I can just, you know what I mean? It's like another whatever. It just makes it simple. Like, I'm only going to do what I love. Let's do that. There's got to be a way to make that happen.

Where did you shoot it comes a night? Upstate New York. And how did you figure out to do it there? It was primarily like money reasons for tax incentives and stuff. And we were going between like outside of Toronto or upstate New York. And then we went, we had like location scouted outside of Toronto. And like I couldn't find anything because I had to shoot 40 minutes within the city. And I was trying to get creative. Like I can combine three houses into one. And it was going to be a nightmare.

And then luckily we found this house in upstate New York and made it happen. You mentioned A-24 who picked up Carisha after it was it Sundance? Is that where it? South by Southwest. South by Southwest. Excuse me. And then obviously they decided to make it comes at night right away. What has it been like working with them?

Obviously, it's been quite a year for them post-war-line. And it's been amazing just to like sit on the sideline. I remember like seeing the Oscars. It like blew my mind. We're at home and we don't have cable and we got some streaming link and tuned in at the very end. It was mind-blowing. But they've been amazing. I like, I've continuously waited for them to like let me down in some aspect.

And they haven't. And they've just supported. the film I wanted to make this whole time through everything. So it's great. If people don't like the movie, they go to me for that, not 824. Because they just, they supported me and had, like, if it was like a creative thing, they would have great ideas or just support me or whatever and, like, got me the budget I needed for it.

And if I ever asked for anything that was lacking or worried about, they came through. And, like, nothing but amazing things to say. What's the, what defines success for this movie? You know, what, how do you, does it? I assume it's not an amount of money that it makes, and I'm sure you're proud of what you've made, but how will you feel on June 10th or June 18th? That's a great question. And I know, I mean, we didn't make the movie for a lot of money, so it doesn't need to make a ton of money,

I don't think, to be successful. But regardless of all that, success to me is like people that just dig it in any capacity. And like, I was doing a few interviews yesterday, and two girls had lost their dads. and they were talking, and they just, like, felt a connection, like, such a deep connection just from, like, the first frame of the movie just through that. But then I talked to other people, and they didn't have that reaction at all. You know, they did totally different things about it. And, like, I made the movie for people like that. I think there's going to be a lot of people that don't dig it, and it's not going to be their cup of tea.

And I intentionally leave questions unanswered and all this stuff that I'm doing. But the reason I make it is for hopefully someone connects with it. So to me, that's success. Do you worry about or read criticism? Do I read critiquette? Yeah, totally. I read all the reviews. Really?

Yeah, and I'll reread reviews. Wow. Yeah, and I'm probably... And take it seriously or process it, yeah? Take it seriously and really think about what they're saying, you know, and think about, like, there was some review that just came out. It was like the first not good review. It was like, okay, but it was for this movie.

And a lot of things, like, I, like was really specific. I reread it, like, five. times because I'm a freak. I was like, he's not getting this and he's not getting this. But I don't know. I'm a weirdo. But I do, I'm fascinated to see how people interpret what I'm doing if that makes sense. It does. Do you, do you feel it necessary to clarify some of those things? Or do you want it to be open? Well, specifically with this movie, I don't feel it necessary to talk about that because I leave things open intentionally. The movie's about the unknown. Like, we can't know more than the characters. We have to.

to know what the characters know and experience it like that. And like I purposely put in what's in the movie for a reason so that, however, for the life of the movie, people that dig it and whatnot, hopefully people take different things and read different things into it. And it's very intentional. So I don't feel the need to explain myself, but I also don't want to come off as like annoying because I won't explain the movie. So it's like a fine line to balance if that makes sense.

So in a different version of this movie made by a different filmmaker, there would have been a sequence where we see a newscast on television that explains the origin of what's happened to society. You know, I'm wondering if you want all of your films to feel grounded in reality. This really works in a lot of ways because, like you say, it's only what the character's experience is what we understand. There's no explicative moments here with stuff like that. Is that something that you always want to capture, or can you see yourself doing something? something more fantastical? That's a great question. I know for now that's all I want to do.

But like I don't like I want like I want to challenge myself do new stuff. So who knows what's in the future. But like now with this movie and then the new thing I'm writing, that's my jam. So I want to do that. But I don't know. Honestly, I'm open to whatever. Do you see yourself making a big studio movie at any time in the future? I know I grew up loving those kinds of movies and I,

if it's the right material totally, but I would never, like, I can't jump into something that I don't, like, love and believe in in my heart and I'm not going to do something just to, like,

like, I'm not going to try to get a studio movie just to get a studio movie. You know, so many are made, and a lot of bad movies are being made, and, you know, I don't want to waste anyone's time.

What about Alien 7? They come to you. Yeah, they want you. The funny thing, like, alien is like, you know, that's my childhood, but I don't think I would ever do an alien movie. Good to know. Well, Trey, thank you so much for being here. This was a great conversation.

Thank you, man. It was a pleasure. Thanks again to Cam Collins and Trey Edward Schultz. The big picture is brought to you today by Proper Cloth. Something is always off when it comes to dress shirts. Luckily, ordering a custom fit shirt has never been easier thanks to Proper Cloth. And they guarantee a perfect fit. Meaning if somehow your shirt doesn't fit perfectly, they will remake it for free. Stop wearing shirts that don't fit.

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