The Press Box - The Democratic Depth Chart with Van Lathan

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

Hello, media consumers! Today on The Press Box, we have a special episode! Bryan and Joel are joined in studio by The Ringer’s own Van Lathan to create a 2028 Democratic Nominee depth chart. The guys go through a list of potential candidates for the 2028 Democratic nomination for President, discussing the outlook and viability of each person. The list spans all the way from frontrunners like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Gavin Newsom, to long shots like John Stewart. The show wraps up with Van ranking them in order of who he thinks will win the nomination as of today. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (2:26) Gavin Newsom (7:20) Pete Buttigieg (16:12) Josh Shapiro (17:42) Kamala Harris (20:48) Tim Walz (25:46) Stephen A. Smith (26:27) Mark Cuban (28:03) JB Pritzker (32:08) Rahm Emmanuel (33:53) Bernie Sanders (35:54) Joe Biden (37:00) Wes Moore (37:35) Corey Booker (39:21) Michele Obama (40:40) Ruben Gallego (44:43) Mark Kelly (45:45) Bob Iger (47:47) Gretchen Whitmer (48:41) James Talarico (49:26) Andy Beshear (53:29) Liz Cheney (1:03:33) John Fetterman (1:03:56 Tech Mogul/Pop Culture Persona TBD (1:04:02) Jon Stewart (1:04:24) Hunter Biden (1:09:36) Putting the Candidates in Order (1:10:40) Jasmine Crockett (1:11:53) Ro Khanna (1:12:51) Hosts: Bryan Curtis and Joel Anderson Guest: Van Lathan Producer: Bruce Baldwin Additional Production Support: Conor Nevins, Ben Cruz, Chris Thomas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello media consumers. Welcome to a very special edition of the press box. It's Brian Curtis. It's Joel Anderson. It's producer Bruce Baldwin and making his press box debut. Wrong. No, no. Not true.

No, no. Making his press box debut with me. That's very true. Our friend. Fan Lathan. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be here on the press box. This is one of the ringer has a contingent of podcasts that are podcasts with

prestige. This is one of them. It's you guys. It's the big pick. And that's pretty much it. Damn. Prestigious podcast, and this is one of them. We just way late.

Maybe the watch. The watch is probably there too. The watch is in the prestige. I kind of feel like if you ain't on Netflix, you don't really get to claim prestige. Tough. That's a tough thing to say. It's an indictment.

And I can see that Joel is on his shit. Like he always is. I'm not. No, I'm good, man. I'm a little for people to, you know, meet me and Van Pond together at the tailgate. I was on one. last night. I felt really good. I was rolling.

Had a rough morning this morning on the road, you know? So I'm gonna be a little more subdued today. You're gonna get to see more professional, Joel. That's what I'm talking about. I'm here to experience it. We wanted to bring you in, fan. Because there are a lot of Democrats who are not officially running for president, but they're running

for president. They're running for president. So consider this the smoke-filled room. Oh. The secret headquarters of the media elite. Christmas Adventures? Well, that is, that's one. You don't know that reference? He doesn't see movies. Oh, one battle after another. Christmas adventures are a cabal of like upper crust, mostly white, guys who like use,

manipulate society and stuff like that, one of the characters trying to join them. Huh. Movies that name again? One battle after another. Yes, this is going to be the benign Christmas adventures. We're on the side of good here. I need to catch up. We're going to put together the Democratic Dept Chart.

Now, you guys talk a lot about college football. This is not a two deep. This is a 25 deep. Oh, wow. Okay. I got 25 names. They got 25 people. Some are real.

Some are marginal. I added two names at the end. Okay, so we got 27 names. Yeah. I'm going to throw them out. We'll discuss and then we'll put them in order at the end. Let's do it. Number one, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Where do we put her on the debt chart? So this is an overall depth chart. Mm-hmm. We're thinking 2028. We're thinking leader of the party in the meantime. Can I be all the way honest about AOC as far as I'm concerned? We would not have you on here if you were not. That was the hope.

AOC is, in my opinion, a bright shining star in politics. She represents kind of the political lane of thought that I'm in. If you guys don't know, your friend Van is a pinko communist socialist. So, but she to me is. an interestingly bad candidate. Huh. For president. For president.

Why? When you watch AOC, AOC brings an energy. She brings a viability. She brings a lot of things that I think people will respond to. But whenever I see her and I'm watching her, I can see the reasons people, people are going to invent in their heads

not to connect with her as a candidate. There's a thing that candidates that are that really cut through have, right? To me. And there's something, she doesn't have that thing. She, like, I'm just going to be honest with you. Even if I take people on the other side of the aisle from me,

like a George W. Bush, something that comforts people and makes them feel like this is the person that I would want to vote for it. It's kind of sterile with her to me. High unfavorables and is it just like you don't think that you can't see her doing an event in Iowa or something like that? Not even so much that because here's the thing. I think that there's going to be a different way that people come to these candidates in terms of viability with how shitty things get in the country.

but I watch AOC when she's doing her stuff with Bernie and I watch when she's delivering a prepared speech and I'm like, okay, cool. But then I watch when she's speaking, you know, just sort of off the cuff to an audience in a town hall and a lot of times it just doesn't come across as very, very like to me compelling. So I understand why she would be a lot of people's number one pick

particularly because she has the politics that I agree with and also I think she has politics that center the American worker. You know, obviously there's not 100% consistency on everything, but I think she's an oddly poor candidate for president. It's interesting. Her best moment, I think, in terms of just a conventional political speech was at the 24 Democratic convention. She did exactly what you said,

which is this is the party working people. We have to get that back. Right. You know, that was the message. We cannot let Republicans take that away. I was a bartender. I was a working person. And that side of her is interesting to me in this.

Also, it's fascinating to like, we've never really seen her in a debate. Yeah. Imagine what she'd be like on a stage with six other Democrats. Now, she does have the off ramp here

because she could also run for Chuck Schumer's seat. Which I think is more likely and probably what she should do. By the way, if I'm not saying that if AOC put her name on a ballot that she wouldn't be first on my debt chart, because she might be. I don't know if she would be first on America's debt chart.

This is the consensus. I have to just be real. Also, I mean, we'll talk about it as we go through the list. I'm dubious of the idea that a non-white candidate can win. I think I completely agree. At this point, and let me tell you why, when we say that, we're going to sound like two Uncle Tom Coons dancing around with hats on. Repeat that sentence.

But let me tell you why. I think that for a lot of people, this race is going to be about the most palatable white guy that they can find because they're going to look at the chances that they've taken and what they believe, fair or unfair, those chances cost them. It should not be a chance taken in America to run a lady for president, for higher office. Empowering women and the leadership of women to me is vital in the world that we live in right now. It's vital in that world. However, people are going to say, particularly on the left, we're one for three

against Donald Trump. And the one guy who won was the standard centrist Democrat white guy that could appeal to black people in the South but also appeal to the every man that's in the middle of America.

Number two, somebody who's been on your prestige ringer podcast. California Governor Gavin Newsom. Yes. Where are you on Newsom right now? He's a cuck. Oh my God.

This is a recent opinion? Yes, he's a cuck. Gavin Newsom is a cuck. How'd you get there? Wow. So Gavin Newsom was on higher learning. Yeah. It is very difficult to have a conversation with Gavin Newsom

and come away with any other thought than I could vote for that guy. Because he is confident. He is polished. He is an expert pivoter. he filibusters in the way that all great politicians filibustered. So you ask Gavin Newsom a question. He takes your interview

from 20 questions to five, which completely reorients the interview around what he wants to say and not what you want to ask him. Politicians trick. I am watching him get stuffed in lockers on his own podcast. Ben Shapiro stuffed him in a locker.

Steve Bannon stuffed him in a locker. Charlie Kirk stuffed him in a locker. And when I say this, let me tell you why I look at it that way and why it's important. This hypermasculine sort of machismo that exists in politics is corrosive and it should not be what you use to decide who you're going to vote for. However, if you trade in that, if that is your currency, then you have to be good about it. You have to be able to deposit that and withdraw that. And Gavin Newsom to me, this political experiment that he's having of talking to these voices

on the right that are incredibly powerful, have these gigantic platforms. That only works if you prove to people that you can match wits and match strength with them. And he is so conciliatory. He is so weak when he, it's like he wants to be in a club that doesn't want to have them.

And I'm telling you right now, there's something there. There's something there. I think that when it's exposed to more people, they're not going to like. And that's besides the record of California and all the stuff he's going to have to defend. I think he's fake strong and real weak.

Well, I'll always go back to the debate he had with Ron DeSantis. Remember when he had that debate with Ron DeSantis? Didn't perform. He didn't win. I'm thinking, oh, like, that is a debate you should have just run away with. Like, that's not like, we saw DeSantis and his other gubernatorial debates against, um, Homeboy. Andrew Gillum.

Andrew Gillum. And Gillum beat his ass. Like, it wasn't even close. And then I saw, and this is something that Gavin Newsom wanted. Like he created this whole event, was part of it, and then didn't really perform. And I was like, oh, okay, well, whatever. So I was sort of dubious about his prospects after that. I am finding it fascinating.

He just tried to become liberal Trump on Twitter, right? I'm going to be very online. I'm going to ridicule my enemies. I'm going to try to take what Donald Trump and his allies do online. I'm going to do like a nicer version of that. And it doesn't work, though, if you can't do it in person. if you can't do what Donald Trump does on a debate stage. Right.

Which, it's so funny. So during the conversation with Ben Shapiro, Ben Shapiro said, hey, you said this on Twitter. Gavin walked it back immediately. Look, bro, I have no problem with that. I'm wrong very often because I have big thoughts and big ideas. So what you try to do is contextualize the reasons why you were wrong, what you learn from being wrong, and then talk to people in that way. You know, this is what we're talking about. this isn't football

right if you we have something on tailgate that we say hold experts accountable damage because these experts

will come out and they'll be like you know what I think SC is going to win the national championship but it's really just a take

it's not making you smarter it's something for entertainment right in this though if you're wrong about this stuff

like people don't get their health care so there needs to be thoughtful reasons as to what you analyze

that are actually that have actually changed your mind and the way that you think. So if Gavin is just doing stuff on social media for vibes and not in any way to really criticize or hold the feet to the flame of people who he thinks are wrong about very important American policy, then it's actually pretty cynical, damaging, and kind of shitty.

So if you do all of that on there and you rile people up and then Ben Shapiro gets you on your podcast and says, hey, you said this on your thing and you just go, yeah, I probably shouldn't say it that. I take that back. The Charlotton. And I know that it feels like I'm being harsh, but man, we're in the endgame, fellas.

And so I'm taking all of these people as serious as they say they want to be taken. I agree. And I just think, like, are you going to be a Twitter account? Are you going to be a real, pullet, real tough and tumble? And I also think this about the Democratic Party. There is still a lot of Democratic Party thinking. That is, they go low, we go high.

And I don't know. if they will accept a certain kind of political rhetoric. I don't know that they want to be, people say online resistance people, we need to be like Trump. We need to be like them. We need to be tough online. We need to be fun of people. We need to, you know, go after people. I don't know that they really want that type of

candidate. Now, maybe Gavin's going to try to have it both ways. I'm that guy on Twitter. I'm not that guy on a debate stage. And I think if he lived his reps, so to speak, that it would be different. He's like if the Krasnstein ran for office. You know what I mean? Let's not be too. You know, it's just like, I'm just like,

I use my mother as sort of like the median Democrat. You know, it's like she watches MSNBC, loves, you know, was a big fan of Bill Clinton until, you know, the 2008 primary or whatever, right? But she would get excited about Gavin Newsom going after people, but do I think he would inspire her to go vote for him against somebody else that seemed more viable? I don't think so. And I think to Vance point, the fact that he backs down every time somebody like bucks up to him,

that doesn't speak well with him. You know who's going to really cut through before we move off this? there's going low, there's going high, and then there's going with you. Your authentic self. Like, no, the person on the other side. Oh, I see. This is Bill Clinton in the audience of the debate going.

I'm saying, you're feeling something about Bill Clinton. Like, Bill Clinton is a grotesque American political figure. He is. But I'll tell you something, man. I've said this before. I'm watching MTV, Choose Your Lose. and I'm 12 years old and maybe 11

and this guy from Arkansas was running for president I haven't really seen anybody that ran for president and looked like him before presidents were kind of old and whatever so I'm watching him

and it's the end of the show and you know the big thing at that time was death row records gangster rap asked Bill Clinton and go hey this is MTV

I said hey do you think that gangster rap promotes and contributes to violence in inner city communities. Do you think it contributes to that? This is something that we need to deal with. Bill Clinton takes the mic. And he goes, I don't know.

Hmm. And I remember watching that, like, I remember just kind of watching it thinking, like, what is the politician from Arkansas going to say that either launderes the reputation of some of these record execs or excoriates inner city people who are listening to a certain type of music. How is he going to spend this?

And he just was like, I don't know. And it felt like a real answer. Yeah. And I started paying attention to him differently. He then asked a question. It's like, well, it depends on the song. Well, at the end of the song, this song, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm thinking he's searching for this.

That means that whoever makes the best case to him has a chance to authentically affect what he thinks of this issue. And when you're coming from where I come from, all you want is for somebody to listen to you. And when you answer you don't know, it seems like you actually were. And even though Bill Clinton, don't give me, you guys, I'm not a Bill Clinton person. That's not the kind of person that I am. I'm not really any of these guys type of person. But the person that's able to convey that to the American people, that I'm not, I don't have a plan. I have an ear and you're more important than what I'm doing on social media or any other stuff. That's the person

who is going to, to me, be the next really guy. Avanizing voice in the Democratic Party. I think Tipper Gore won the argument with Bo Clinton. Yeah. Right? Remember the explicit lyrics? Yeah. Yeah.

Tippy with something else, man. It's just a soldier moment. Yeah, it's just a soldier moment. It's just a soldier moment. Yeah. I think we know what side he came down on. Right. All right.

Number three in our list. A guy who's been doing the podcast tour. Flagrin, all in. He goes on Fox News to explain stuff. Pete Buttigutch. It's over, man. Damn. Really?

Wow. Van is down on a lot of these canes. It's over. Really? Why is it over for Pete? Nothing. It hasn't done anything at all. Oh.

I mean, it's over. Like Pete is a, like, Pete is completely, Pete is the opposite of Gavin Newsom. Don't bring Pete on your podcast unless you ready to get straight body, right? Unless you, you got to be, Pete is a really impressive and dynamic figure when he's in front of somebody and he's talking to them. he is well studied he is rhetorically sharp um but pete to me it represents sort of a corporate centrist democratic wing that a lot of people are going to like kind of occur from he's been around for a while he's kind of a known commodity i think people want to kind of investigate some things that they have him before he's a perfectly decent guy we have some disagreements on foreign policy uh in regards

to probably the way he looks at things in the Middle East, regardless of Israel and Gaza and all of that stuff. He's a perfectly different, decent guy, but the era and the time of Pete Buttigieg is becoming President of the United States as own. Do you think he's a possible presidential candidate because Harris said in her book that she was thinking about picking him?

No. I mean, like, I think a lot of these people are on fumes, and I think that he's one of them. Damn. Number four, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. Ideally, what you're want. That's the thing. He's the idea of a presidential candidate, right? He even sounds like Obama. Ideally what you want. Israel makes it a non-starter, though. Israel makes it a tough,

sell. Now, look, I don't want to get bogged down into an issue that is, you know, so difficult for people to discuss. But I'm going to say this. The Democratic Party, and really the Republican Party, are going to have to deal with the quagmire that this issue presents to them. They're going to have to deal with it. I watched something that was more fascinating than anything I've ever watched. I watched a mutiny at a Heritage Foundation event.

Last year after the Heritage Guy goes, what's his name? I can't remember. Kevin Roberts, I think. Oh, yeah, yeah. Heritage guy goes full on with, you like that. Heritage guy goes full on. He's on the side of,

of Tucker. And, you know, he supports Tucker Carlson. He uses language that some people think is, you know, just kind of veiledly anti-Semitic and does the whole thing. Because it causes this big stew at Heritage. And they have this meeting where the members of Heritage get to talk to him and tell him how they feel. And you realize he has no quarter.

He has no quarter. There's really no quarter. order. There's a contingent of people that are so disappointed that he broke with what heritage, what they think he stands for, right? That he took Tucker side, right? And then there's a younger contingent of heritage people that don't want to have anything to do with Israel anymore. That are probably really infected or influenced by corporaism and all of that. Damn Bill Zarian type of people. Like those people, right? So he's standing up there and he really doesn't have a country.

Now, he probably came out of it, you know, because people move on to something else. But this issue, whenever it is tickled on either side, just shows a break between what your political intelligency or wants to do and what the people who are voting in voting boots see on their phones and how they're being influenced and who they really listen to. I don't know who's going to figure it out. but it's probably not going to be Josh Shapiro. And it will still have that intensity at 2028, you think? You know, it's interesting. That's the question, right? Yeah.

So maybe it won't. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it feels like we're, that this is intractable and we're always, I mean, the issue, a lot of people feel like it's intractable, it's not intractable to me. But maybe it feels like we're here and we're stuck here for the whole time, but maybe we're not. Biden Harris are running when the war was going on. Right.

I don't think it'll necessarily have the salience that it did even, you know, in 2024. But whenever it comes up, he's going to have to answer for it. And it'll just want, you know, I think it'll still end up being a problem for him. Number five, Kamala Harris. She's not running for governor. She's got time. She might think, she might think that there's a pathway for her. I'm not convinced that she doesn't.

It's over, man. Yeah, darn. Yeah. Not even with the discussion. Let me be, I'm going to be all the way real. Hmm. This doesn't feel good. Uh-oh.

Kamala Harris is a trailblazer. She is a fantastic public servant. Insofar as she's dedicated her life to public service, a life in the public eye. She's taking so much fire from the right, from misogynist, from people who endeavor into misogyn a war. She's taking so much fire, so much. And she conducted herself always with grace and class in the, uh, the midst of all of that. She's just not a good presidential candidate.

Anytime. So I always go back. I don't disagree. And she, and like, come, come for me, do the whole thing. I get it.

I've been here before. Like, man, I voted for with glee. And we would be in so much better of a situation in terms of foreign policy. I mean, we might invade Greenland, all of this stuff.

If she was president right now. But having said that, she is not an exemplary candidate president, and it's a fact. And if we're not, if we can't come to that decision and understand that that's the thing, and if we run her for any reason or run anybody for any other reason other than they're the best candidate to win, you're doing a disservice to your party and to the people of America. I always just go back to 2020, man, where she started out with like a lot of advantages. You know, people were excited about her when she first announced. And it just, the campaign petered out because of the things you're talking about.

Like she wasn't, I think I was a surprise. Her story and her CV is inspiring, right? But like when she presents herself in front of you, it just doesn't feel quite the same way. Like I think people look at her and they say, oh, an attractive biracial person that's, you know, served in the highest levels of government for a while now. But like everybody just can't be Obama. I think everybody's always been trying to be like that's where they did the Cory Booker thing and everything. Oh, he could be in the model of Obama, but like Obama is Obama because he was a special guy. Like, right?

And that's not her gift. And I want to talk directly to black ladies here. Oh, man. I have to because our big black female contingent here. But whatever they can hear me when this happens, I want to talk directly to black ladies. And I want to, I want to like make them understand that I am hoping to be able to get how uncomfortable. it is for you to hear me say that, right? It doesn't matter that I don't think that Cory Booker is a great candidate for president,

that I don't think that Hakeem Jeffries is a great candidate for president. Anytime you are less than supportive or even critical of Kamala Harris or Jasmine Crockett or anything else, there's no way for the backbone of the Democratic Party, which are black ladies, not to ask themselves the question, is it me? Is it not the fact that I'm not a charismatic candidate or that I don't express myself in a way or that I come across inauthentic? Is it me? Is it the existence of who I am that America is rejecting? That question, I can say I can't answer for America.

I can't answer for America. For me, though, I can answer it for me. and I can say that in my objective mind, Kamala Harris is not a viable, winnable, runnable option in 2028. And for all the cultural trust, and I'm willing to reexamine all of that stuff because it hurts sisters, and I'm never going to pretend like it doesn't hurt them.

That's right. But I am just being honest that to me, no. Even if we don't make it personal, right? And if there's a way for somebody to hear with Vanisering or what I'm saying, and you step outside of the fact that I'm a black male and I'm not, I'm not going into any context about how America treats black women and regard them in positions of leadership or whatever. Like there's a whole,

there's a whole academic wing and research and work that will talk about, like the way black women are regarded when they go into the workplace or whenever they try to ascend to leadership position. But if I can separate myself from that and I just say, all right, well, that stuff does still matter. though. Like, you still have to appeal to a whole bunch of people that ain't us. And I just don't think with her that it's going to be, I just, especially now. Like I say, she had, she had a chance. She ran. She lost whatever. Like, I think she, like, like Van said, she would have been a great

candidate, a great president. But I just kind of felt like, eh, I don't think America is going to go that direction again. I think it's that, that part of it is over for her. Number six, her running mate. Minnesota governor soon not to be Minnesota governor, Tim Walls. Is that even a discussion? Nah. I wanted Tim so bad, man. You did? Can I show you this thing?

I got up there. I got this at the convention in 2024. Remember this moment in American life? Coach Walls. He was a football coach. He was a coordinator. Yeah. Want to state championship up there to us?

I'm like that. He didn't win a state championship. He did. All right, Tim Walls. Number seven, the governor of ESPN, Stephen A. Smith. That's your boy, man. I mean I respect that brother Van Lathen

very much I mean there's an account I'm going to say the name over here and if we have to bleep it out that's fine but there's this account that chops up clips for like the Joe Button show

and the account is Chat Nigger 101 I love them Chat nigger 101 I love them yeah Vans on there very very frequently Yeah they do a great job of aggregating

They aggregate close And so once I'm pretty certain that's how Stephen A Smith saw what you say Maybe he's just a big higher learning fan. I mean, yeah, it's kind of a little bit. I know him a little bit. Okay.

Yeah. I know him a little bit. Of course, he knows. Of course, the fan knows everybody. Yeah, I know him a little bit. I mean, the, you know, the very idea of it is grotesque. Okay. I also, because we're going to probably talk about.

We'll look for Stephen A's text after the show. We're going to talk about Stephen A. Smith at some point later, just about the media thing that's going on. Man, hogs get slaughtered, bro. He, Stephen A. Smith has a great job. He could just ride off into the sunset, be a millionaire. And I don't understand why he's antagonizing so many people. At a certain point, I'm just like, who do you think your fans are, bro? Like, I just, I wonder that about Stephen A. Smith.

That's the brand, though. That's the brand. Yeah, but I think that's great for maybe TV, five, 10 years ago. I don't think that that's going to be able to continue. And I think that he's... For the new media world, for podcasting and everything else, you're saying. Yeah. Not necessarily for presidential politics, but...

Yeah, I think that he's taking on a little bit too much... Too much more than he can cheer, put it out. Number eight, a guy who was doing interviews on the field after the national championship game. Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban? You know, no. No. No, it's a no, but it's a no.

I don't find it interesting at all. Like I find Mark Cuban to be, so I could see why some other people find him to be interesting. But I think on a campaign trail last time he was a little bit exposed. Yeah. He didn't resonate in the way that I thought he was going to. I thought people would think it was a bigger deal. You know what he is? It's Democrats that want some part of Donald Trump.

When they look at News and they like, we want the Donald Trump Twitter account for us. And with Cubanists, we want the businessman. Right. That's what they want. It's like the businessman who's independent of all this, who doesn't need this. Do you know that like when people think that way though, they're

to people all the time. That's an endorsement of Trumpism. I agree. Like wanting your own Donald Trump. But that's, I think a lot of Democrats want that. They're so tired of just getting... Wanting your version of Donald Trump, that's like that's an endorsement of

Trumpism. That's like a silent or maybe even active capitulation to this era of political insolality and bulliesm and all of that stuff. I'm not saying that like

you don't have to get a little tougher, but if you want somebody because they're a little bit like Trump, then what you really want is Trump, like to me. See, that's the thing. I was talking to something about this this week is like, I wonder when you see the way J.D. Vance tweets and the way all these Trump people tweet now, they're following

the master. They're all shit posting like the master. I think this has been a fascinating Democratic conversation in 2020. Do we want that? Do we want our version of that? That's not the benign version, the nice version of that. Or do we actually want to try to go back to what political discourse was like before

Trump? Can we do that? And Joe Biden said he was going to do that. It didn't work. Well, I mean, to me, sometimes we kind of overthink these things. Like, we have conversations for a living, right? And when we have conversations, you know, sometimes they get heated.

Sometimes we're lessen our best selves. Like, I crashed out on Ohio learning a couple of weeks ago. It happened sometimes. You can always, I'm not, polish can always be your best self. But like, I think what we do and what a lot of people do in their everyday lives is, you know, they meet people

in energetic connection and if things are cool then things are cool and if things get tense then you match that tension with the energy that you need so I think what people don't want to see

is Democrats or anyone that they want to entrust with power get mistreated and sort of surrender to that but I don't know if they need people to act like Gordon Gecko so that they can get, you know what I mean? I don't know if they need that. I just think you're sitting here, you conduct yourself, however you conduct yourself, you talk directly to people, you talk plainly to people, and if somebody accuses your dad of killing JFK, you don't

then go to work for that person and then pretend like they never said it. Like what you do is you take them to task in a way, the same way that you would take somebody to task that was disrespecting you at the DMV or like somebody if you these politicians are like they're servants they're their waiters right they're their people so you go into a way a place you're getting served and someone's bringing the food out it doesn't matter how nice they are about you never getting your steak if you don't get your steak at some point you go hey man I appreciate you you have a tough job it's busy in here I'm not paying unless I get my fucking food yeah and and everybody kind of acts like that, but these politicians feel like they either have to be badasses or like good

guys when really all they have to be is people. And so I don't know. I don't think that emulating him in that way is going to work, but we'll see. Number nine, Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker. I'm going to be honest with you don't know too much about him. Yeah. Kind of an unknown quantity for him. He's, he got, he did this speech again. I went to the convention. It was like all these people coming out one after another. And that was kind of a way, like I heard and heard a lot of them talk, at least in that setting. And he was, he was. He got. He was. He was. He was. He didn't heard a lot of them talk. And he was like, I'm the real billionaire. Donald Trump, he's a billionaire, but I'm really a billionaire. Now, J.B. Pritzker inherited his money and has used it for, you know, progressive causes, essentially.

That was kind of a thing, which was kind of a weird play. It's kind of a little bit in the Cuban zone of, you know, I'm a businessman. I also feel like if you grade Democrats on what was your reaction when Donald Trump sent federal agents to your city for immigration raids, he has probably not milked that in the way that Gavin Newsom has done or that politicians in Minnesota. have done or he's not cap milked it's probably the wrong word capitalized on that in the way to get attention though he's done he's done a lot of talking about it certainly but i thought he i thought he i thought he conducted himself about as well as you could under those circumstances but yeah it didn't seem to elevate him in a way that i thought it was going to yeah i don't know i'm

not talking about morally because i'm sure he said the right he said the right things i'm just talking about in terms of becoming a leader of the part yeah no right it didn't seem and i don't yeah i don't know maybe the illinois thing he's the kind of guy i feel like needs to make a move. Yes. You know, you need, he needs to make a move.

I know that he's, he lost a bunch of weight to kind of get ready for it, right? Did he? Yeah, that's what. I mean, I had lunch with somebody, uh,

an official from, um, from Michigan, like a couple of weeks ago and, like a politician, official from Michigan or guy I like a lot. And he told me that J.B. Prince was making a move.

Okay. Making the move. He's going for it. So he needs to, he needs to make a move. He needs to do something to explode a little bit. Uh, number 10,

also from Chicago. I'm Emmanuel. Man, get him on. I was surprised you put him in him. I wanted to put a few funny ones in here. I mean, Vance struck all these people down. They don't even like him in Chicago. Hey, I want you guys to understand something that you're listening to the voice of like a cynic right now.

Like, they've turned me into a cynic. And so I'm talking, if you're asking me right now, I mean, Ron Emmanuel is not, it's just not going to happen for Ron Emmanuel. There's too much red in that legend. Like, it's not going to happen for him. And I've listened to him. I listened to him on Pod Save. When you're sitting down and he was talking about the stuff, he seems to be one of these, we got woked out of the 2024 election people. I just don't know how much legs that's going to have. So to me, I don't think there's any path for Ron Emmanuel. I think the interesting question to ask is, what should he be doing other than running for president? Should he have, like,

I'm the centrist Democratic podcast and you got to get past me. Like I can be influential in this world. He's talked a lot about and this is the thing, everybody has different jobs. He's talked a lot about a specific focus on education and how

he feels like education, something that he was able to make a lot of strides on as mayor of Chicago, how that is the number one battle in America. I do not disagree with that. I think comprehension, literacy, I think all of these

things are downstream for how much we know. Do we have the engineers that we need to re-industrialize? Do we have the thinkers that we need to be able to contextualize some of the political discourse that we have right now? Are we smart enough for the complexity of these times? I don't think that that's something that we should not be concentrating on. So if he wanted to do something more directly with that, I think that would be really interesting. But I don't want him in control of the entire federal government. No. Number 11. four-year-old Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. He got one more run in him.

My eyes to him. Number 12, Joe Biden. Can I say one thing that Bernie can do, though? Sure. He should be one of the guys that is a, he should be one of the chief kingmakers. Yeah. Going forward because the fight against oligarchy

and all that stuff, that's resonating with people. So for all of these people that actually have designs on the presidency, I think what's inside of Bernie's head is probably very useful to them. don't know that, you know, voting for an 84-year-old guy who would be, what, 807? Seven, yeah. During that time. Harnessing the energy of that movement would be really important. Yeah.

Because I feel like those people have just kind of floated since then, you know, some have gone to the right. Some have just gotten disinterested in politics and they're just like perpetual critics of the Democratic Party. So if he could find a way to like harness that energy and get those people behind somebody and come up with, yeah, like if it's AOC, cool, whatever. But somebody needs, he needs to be grooming. somebody to take over that movement

in his way. He'll be a convention speaker in 28. Everybody gave him a huge ovation. Number 12, Joe Biden. Tan rested ready. Is he ready? I brought this too. Look at this. Remember we love Joe? Remember that moment in America? And people didn't even really love Joe

then. But they were at least pretended to love Joe. Now they don't pretend to love Joe. Look, man. Joe It's the end of the political movie for Joe, man. Let Joe go have a good time. I feel we see pictures of him like walking right eating ice cream a lot. Yeah, let Joe. Let Joe live.

He wouldn't, yeah. Number 13, Maryland Governor West Moore. Interesting candidate. Great speech at the convention. Interesting candidate. Yeah, I think so too. It's very on the nose. Interesting candidate.

Like, interesting candidate for reasons that are, he's got boom or bust potential to me. Yeah. First of all, Westmore is like a black forest gump. The story is crazy. Westmore was a college football players, right? And an investment banker and a soldier who became a politician, all of that stuff, right? We had him on higher learning and it's like, Westmore was a soldier, excuse me, a investment banker during the financial crisis, right? A soldier during the war on terror.

And all these really precarious tipping points in recent American history, he was there kind of as a participant. if he is able to clearly distill to Americans, like what he learned and all of that stuff and why that makes him a unique leader for the times, you can't really out masculine him, you can't really out-talk him, you can't out-financial him, you can't out any of that stuff,

but he's got to be able to put it all together. You know, he's got the dynamism that Colin Allred probably wished, the Texas Democrats which Colin Allred had. I don't know if you've seen Colin Allred talk before. But it's just kind of like, just very low energy, just not a very inspiring personality. Whereas you see Westmore, you can see, oh, that guy has a lot of, you know, oomph behind him.

He also looks like Stiles P. Has anybody ever told him that? He looks for what, Siles P? Yeah. The locks? Yeah. Oh, I didn't think about that? I didn't think about it. What's your favorite lock song, man?

What's your favorite locks on? I was trying to get ahead of that. I'm sorry. I was trying to get ahead of that. Number 14, New Jersey Senator Cory Booker. No. No chance. No.

Come on, man. Politically speaking or just been around too long. We've been through this. Cori Booker is a weakling. Damn. Okay. Damn. Same more.

I mean, just like in terms of just like a capitulator. No. Cory Booker reads, feckless when you see him. Shit. And we, we, man, we are these, all of this stuff seems like insults. Right. All of this stuff seems like insults.

But like we're doing this like these people are like, are, are, NBA players. I don't know what he is as a man. Yeah. I'm not speaking as a man. I'm talking about as like a politician. There are just all kinds of things in his record that I don't like. Yes, this is a draft combine.

Right. I probably would agree with Cory Booker on a lot of things, but he does not cut the image to me of somebody who is going to lead this entire nation and really repair the world order, destroyed by Donald Trump, I don't think it's going to happen. Yeah. I don't see him exciting people. You know, his moment was whenever, like, a few years after street fight came out.

Oh, my God. Number 15, what Democrat has not said? Shouldn't Michelle Obama run for president? So there's two people. These are my people. This is my first person. Damn. That's my president.

Number one. That's my number one. You want him, right? Wow. Okay. I'm putting number one right by her. That's my number one. I buried the big choices too far down on the list.

That's my number one. It is not Michelle Obama's responsibility to come in and save the world. It's not, but boy, could you. Damn. There we go. Yeah, I mean, she'd never want to do it, though. She's not going to do it, and it's an unfair ask for what their family has already sacrificed. I won't let you guys know something.

This is not me. for all of the politics of the Obama administration. We could have a different conversation about that. We could talk about all kinds of things. What I'm saying right now is Michelle Obama is strong. She projects strength. Michelle Obama is brilliant. She projects brilliant.

Michelle Obama is a mother. She projects protection. Everything about her that is excellent. She projects it. We go low. They go low. high thing that people are trying to kind of figure out, like she invented that.

She dictated that to people. So Michelle Obama doesn't have any trouble with giving off or being in public who people know her to be. With being authentic to it, with being relatable to it, she is as

American, as an American that you are going to get. She's from a great American city has a great American family is educated, is culturally unimpeachable, is brilliant and as

First Lady was not afraid to ruffle feathers when she had an opinion that went against the grain. So to me, legitimately the person for this moment, but it's not going to happen. Man, what makes her

just articulate, what makes her separate and apart from the paradigm of thinking we need a not non-white candidate. Brand. First of all, I don't know that we need like a white candidate. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying I believe that. I think that most Americans probably believe that. But what we need to me, what people will want is someone that has a brand that can be connected to excellence.

somebody that you know in a contest of personality, ideals and I guess decency is going to be able to win but not win in saying look how bad this other person is. I think look how bad this other person is is not going to work.

But look inside of us into the strength of who we are. Make the case of why it is better to protect your neighbors than to do nothing while ICE assails them. Make the case as to why it's more important to have strong allies

than have countries that fear you. Make the case in establishing a world order that at least in rhetoric is cemented and based in cooperation and not in this multipolar, multi-polar strongman competition. Make that case until, people why and have them connect to you, she's just one of the goats at that. And I think with

even more opportunity, she probably would be more powerful at doing that stuff. As much as Democrats feel the allure of Donald Trump are parts of the Donald Trump type candidate, I think they want the Aaron Sorkin candidate too. I really do. I think they want to fall in love. I think they want to. I think they want to too. A couple of Arizonaans for you. Number 16, Senator Ruben Gallego. Look, once again, I like him as a politician, basically. I saw a very funny tweet about him. Did you guys see this tweet?

No. The tweet said, Senator Gallego, we need you. The world needs you. Please drop your voice a couple of octets. It's funny. Damn. I think one thing that he has going for him is that he's a little bit newer. is a little bit newer

can speak directly to some of the things that have happened along the southern border can be someone that can kind of write some sort of maybe if in the best case scenario can maybe strengthen some coalitions inside the party but once again I'm not very excited. One in Arizona in a year when the Democrats lost Arizona.

Very true. Pretty interesting. The other Arizona is Mark Kelly. That's the first. perfect candidate from like 1988. Damn. I like him. Yeah. But remember when we used to care about astronauts

and care about like what people had done and like, you know, it used to be like this person served and all of that stuff. There's great background. There's great background, all of that. I will say this, though. The more that J.D. Vance comes at Mark Kelly,

the more J.D. Vance and the right make Mark Kelly a viable candidate. I mean, Pete Higgs at this trying, all by himself. Oh, excuse me. I meant to say actually, Hexeth. Well,

everybody's in. Everybody's coming at him, but Hexeth and trying to impugn his military record. And if Mark Kelly, put you in like this, if Mark Kelly

and, you know, other people on the left can make the case, a case as simple as, you know, kind of the thing that they got into

surrounding whether or not you have to follow orders, right? Let me try to say this more. Follow illegal orders. Follow illegal orders. Let me make this clear. there's a wing of American politics

that try to launder anything that Donald Trump does and then they sort of express that as patriotism. Like why wouldn't you follow your president? Why wouldn't you follow the people who people voted for? And that intuitively makes sense to a lot of Americans, right? This is the guy that won.

This is the guy that we follow. If Mark Kelly is able to win his battle with the right, the battle that he will win is that that's not what we follow. What we follow is the rule of law. What we follow is a case for cooperation and community that is supposed to be based around these founding and binding documents that make us all safe. And let me explain to you why Hickset is the one that's crazy for doing what he's doing.

And I am the one that's trying to preserve your rights. If he can win that battle, he will be a legitimate candidate for president. Number 18, Bob Iger. Oh, I haven't thought about this one in a while. Remember Bob Iger? He was the guy. People really wanted him to do it. Folded to the Trump administration when they sued.

Yeah, yeah, he played himself. Which might be the end of it. Because if you're standing on a stage with him, and what's his public profile? Yeah, but don't you just turn to him on a stage and be like, by the way, you just had to settle a lawsuit because it's something your anchor said on television. Plus, I'll be honest with you.

This was probably a bigger deal for him when end game was popping. Because right now, if y'all can't even fix Marvel, I don't know what y'all going to do about Texas and Louisiana. So, like, look. Well, Kathleen Kennedy stepped down. So there's something going on. Okay, we'll see. But Bob Iger, I think when Disney was like on top of this, then that probably was like a deal for him. But like right now, man, just give me my superhero movies back with some quality.

Don't worry about being president. Number 19, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. I don't think she wanted. But they call me big. Gris. Big Gritch. She had a bluffs. I don't think she wants it.

I don't think so. Really? Yeah, I don't think she wants it. I think she had that moment, you know, when she went to the White House to try to work with Trump right after got elected. Remember she was like covering her face and that whole thing? It was a tough moment. But I also think it reflected that she wants to be governor in Michigan. And she wants to get the best for what she can for the people of Michigan rather than just be a pure calculus of how do I run for the president.

I think the fact that she was out maneuvered in that situation probably says a lot more than the fact that she was at the White House because what she was there. therefore was directly to serve her constituents. So I don't have a problem with that, but the fact that they kind of got around it. But I don't know that she wants it, though. Here's a funny one. Number 20, Texas Senate candidate James Tala Rico. That's your boy.

Oh, Talley, Tally. If he's got to beat Ken Paxner, John Corny. Got to beat Ken Paxner, John. Otherwise, it's a Beto situation. I don't know if I was going to say Beto because it didn't bother him. Yeah. I'll know more about Tala Rico after this Saturday. the 24th there is a Texas Senate primary debate between Tala Rico and Jasmine Crocky.

That would be fascinating. I'm going to watch every fucking second of it. I want to watch it. Like it was the latest, the goddamn offering for Marvel or a big fight. I'm going to watch it. I'm going to watch every second of it. He's too unknown a quantity. He's saying all the right things.

And I think for a lot of people, he represents sort of a great white hope in terms of being able to cross over. He went on Joe Rogan and going on Joe Rogan and... Fuse politics and religion. Fuse politics and religion. But fuse politics in religion in a way that made him look like the ultimate humanist, which I feel like a lot of people want right now. He actually was actually able to even glamour Rogan, who very few politicians on the left can do that because they don't. don't seem like guys, guys enough and regular people enough. So that got a lot of people going.

Since then, people have learned some stuff about James. And these aren't things that any one thing is kind of contaminating. But he is a politician and he's going to have to play politics. We'll see if he's good enough. You're not talking about the Instagram stuff. We talked about. I'm not talking about that. That's the type of shit I'm talking about James.

Yeah, man. I mean, I mean, you know, we're so silly. I'm talking about just other policy things. He took some money from Marion Edelson. Right. It is not the type of thing that I think a lot of. lot of people would have expected him to do. He's a community guy, so they'd expect him to be a small donor guy and all of that.

If you're taking that from Merrill Edison, she is the world's, like, elitist, leading Zionist fundraiser. So what does that say about kind of how you feel, about what we've done in Gaza, all of that type of stuff. So he's got, he's still got some reputation making to do, but it's probably a little early to be thinking about him for president right now. He's maybe the most organically viral Democratic candidate of the most past few years, right? I felt like he's the better of 2026.

Yeah. I mean, that's that was, we know this. Yeah. This is a template. I mean, you could also say that for Congresswoman Crockett, right? Well, you could say that for Congresswoman Crockett. She is legitimately the only person. And we've talked about on higher learning.

I'm sure we'll talk more about it. But she is the only person that was able to cut. a message that really as a Democratic congressperson got through, not the only person. Obviously, AOC has a brand and all of that. But as far as being able to cut through the noise and have a singular voice that was identifiable, she's been great at that. Yeah, no, I see the thing is, you know what it is with Jasmine Crockett is that I actually, she broke through, especially for a lot of people when she went after your girl, Marjorie

Taylor King. Gail. She, Green, Green, yeah. And so I felt like, you know, she exists in more than the Internet, James Tilarico, you really got to kind of care about Texas politics. He's a state senator. He's a state senator. Yeah.

So it's just like, you don't, I didn't really know a lot about him until I saw him on Instagram. I can't wait for that debate. I can't wait either. As I used to say in wrestling, classic contrast and styles. Classic, as contrast as it gets, my motherfucker. James has an interesting tightrope to walk. That's right.

That's right. Like an interesting tightrope to walk. That's what I mean. It's fascinating. That is going to be not just about ideas, but that's going to be about. identity about how we treat each other. That's a white man and a black woman on the stage. How will they decide to play it? Will they take the gloves off and try to shred each other? Or will they try to demonstrate some civility and maintain some peace between the coalition?

Number 21, Kentucky Governor Andy Bashir. That's a really interesting guy. Yeah, I think he's a little boring. I think he is too. I think it's also the Democratic search. We'll go back to Clinton. We need the Southern guy. Yeah. They're always looking for the Southern guy. Yeah. And he, look, he won in Kentucky twice, which is not nothing.

And that takes talent. That takes a certain amount of political skill. Didn't he beat Daniel Cameron one of those years? See, I felt like you get, it's, when you run against a black Republican, that's kind of like a freebie, man. In Kentucky. I feel like Republicans only throw up a black candidate if they're giving up. I don't know, because that was a Donald Trump thing. I think Donald Trump wanted Dana Cameron.

Yeah, right, that's fair. But I just don't think that, like, I will see what happens with Biden Donald's, for instance, right? I feel like right now, Florida Republicans are like, I don't think we really want this. But I feel like if you beat a black Republican, that doesn't really count in the same way. Oh, I want Duane Way to get into the Florida governor's race bad, man. Is that a thing that people? It was for at one point. I just want DeWain Way.

I just want to see what happened. You should have put him on this list. I just want DeWain Way to get into that. I want to see what was happening because Byron, there is not. Florida's in play, man. Florida is getable. Like Florida's, like, people are talking about Texas. Texas is a little bit, whatever.

Florida is in play, man. Florida's in play. Fishback is, I think fishback might be a leftist agent. Yeah, he's, because, because fishback is just going so hard and, like, taking apart Byron Donald because he represents sort of the groper wing of the party, that he is weakening his. candidacy. Absolutely.

And he is unelectable. Right. So it's almost as if like he's on a kamikaze mission to make sure a Democrat is elected in the floor. I want him to stop.

He's grotesque, but I don't want him to stop. So I don't know. But back to Bashir said something that pissed me off. Bashir said, he said, he was on Bill Maher, I think he was like,

you know, he's talking about wokeness because obviously it's wokeness. Wait, Omar brought that up? That's weird. Wokenness. This is black people

for everything that happens. It's black people for all. Disneyland schools, all of our faults, right? So he said, we don't want to take, well, we shouldn't look at wholeness or DEI or anything of that sort as taking seats from the table so that people have to move. We should think about adding seats to the table. Andy,

take that one and burn that one. Don't come back out with that. Okay. like that that right there would have really did numbers in 18 or 19 or even 14 or 15 we're we're too sophisticated for that one fool us some other way like like fool us some other way but don't do the thing don't say you're going to make the table so big where everybody can say say hey you know what we're going to do we're going to build a new table and these are the rules that we're going to use to build it right the old table wasn't working for working Americans. So let's forget about that table. That didn't work for working Americans. What we should really be doing is envisioning in a new table. And that table that we envision should be inclusive of Americans, not just from a racial or gender standpoint, but from a socioeconomic standpoint. It should be inclusive, really of the world. How does what we do

here affect our neighbors? So let's not talk about how many seats are at the old table. Let's think about the table that we can build now together because we have the freedom and the power to do it. But if you talk about building the table of the slave owners and all of those guys and making us believe that we're going to be able to sit at that motherfucker and have the same vote, you're going to get people like me saying, Andy, get the fuck out of it. Well, also, like, I just, and this is not particular to him, I wish people would stop falling for the wokeness trap. Like, I would just, like, I reject that term and the characterization of it out of hand.

Like, I just think it's nonsense. And I think for people to play that again, I wish more people would say that. It's like, stop saying that. It doesn't make any sense. You don't know the origin of the term. So stop using it. The term woke is like my sister.

Hmm. With me. Okay. I have a beautiful, capable, amazing, brilliant sister. Okay. She's like legitimately one of the most talented people on this earth and she is such a protector.

if you say something about my sister I'm gonna have big problems with you okay but I do recognize things that I disagree with her you know what I'm saying so like when I'm in the

when I'm in the around the ringer and I'm here with the younger people and they say stuff like that guy's 29 like why is he talking to a 23 year old I'm like come on man I'm like come on guys

I know like we got You know what I'm like, guys. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's like you'll say something and they'll be like, oh, use this term and I'll be like, guys, come on, guys. Like, you understand why that type of thing can sometimes be annoying to people. And like, you get it. But at the same time, when you make it the whole thing, I know why you're doing it.

That's kind of how I can say about that, you know? Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess the thing is, is that, I mean, I think that that's expanding the term outside. because I think that when people were talking about anti-wokeness or whatever, I think they were just talking about, like, decency, like respecting people's pronouns, right? DEI programs, right? Like the funding of DEI, stuff like that.

But I guess if, like, people want to quibble about Latin X or whatever, and the terminology around it or whatever, but I just, even then, I'm just like, why does that bother you so much? Like, why does that actually have to be a wokeness now? So this is really a conversation that I think the party needs to have and people need to have in general. Look, I understand the feeling, the reflexive feeling of not wanting to be police for what you say and what you do. Right. I understand that, man.

Brilliant friend of mine, Jazz Fly, no longer with us. Brilliant lady. Brilliant, beautiful lady. 2015 she has a conversation I say to wear a female and she says I don't want to be called a female it's like you don't want to be called a female I don't want to be called a female

I don't want to be called a female I don't know it's like dogs are female I'm a woman I'm a lady I'm all of this stuff now my instant response to that was a little bit of rage because I'm just going to keep it real with you Brian I'm going to make you uncomfortable but where I'm from like dudes would say bitch ho all kinds of things right and female to me was the woke term

And in me using the term female, then having someone say that that term isn't elevated enough, what it really did was put my decency on trial and no one wants their decency to be put on trial. However, what people did was in order not to have conversations about what is decency. They put the idea of defining decency on trial. and that to me was a way not to have the conversation. That was a way to say, hey, everything is fine the way that it is. A trans kid runs away from home or unalized themselves. You got to break some eggs, right?

And so to me, do I understand people going, ah, can we just have some fun? Sure, I understand it. But we're in a place where my life and my ability to go out here and live free is not it's not assured so let's talk about structures that we don't have to change to make me a little bit safer anybody else. I'm going to just to dig another side. So the model

for this is my father, right? And I just remember when I was very young he's got all the answers, huh? Well, you know, because like my father... Huh? My dad could beat your dad up. I don't know about that. My dad was still with us. My dad could beat your dad up. I don't know about that. You know, my man

was an Allstate football player, man. But my dad was a baseball player and a football player. If my dad was here right now... Bobby Mitchell. gave my dad a game ball, man. My dad knew Doug Williams, and they were friends. Like, if my dad was here, my dad was a rodeo cowboy, if my dad was here, my dad could beat your dad up.

I don't know about it. I just want to remind you guys. This is a conversation about Andy Bashir. Oh, yeah, my dad. Anyway, continue, please. Oh, well, anyway, so I just remember being, I don't know, in middle school and my father using the term Oriental. And I was just like, dad, people don't really say it like that anymore.

And he just kind of thought about it. He was like, okay, you're right. And I just like, to me, it just modeled like with decent, like, it wasn't even though hard. And there were a lot of people like that. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. And then they just, they never say it again.

When he was in a rehab center a few, a couple years ago from recovering from back surgery. And one of the, oh, a quarterlies was, uh, they them. That was their pronouns, right? And he kept calling they, she. Yeah, because he didn't understand. And I was like, dad, I know that you mean well or whatever, but like, that's not. And he just kind of getting. He was like, okay.

okay, well, I'm doing the best I can, son, but I'm going to try to do better. And he was a little annoyed with me, but he still received it. And I was like, to me, my father is an almost 80 years old black man from Jim Crow, Arkansas. It's very hard for him to just change the way that he looks at the world and everything, right?

But the idea that he was willing to do it and could accept the criticism. Like, that is a model for me. That is a model for me. And I just don't understand why everybody else can't be like that. Be like my dad. This is the most interesting conversation Andy Bashir has ever inspired.

I thought this is great. You know what? Everything there was great. I didn't step in. Daniel Cameron, Doc. I mean, you beat a brother with a bad hairline, dog. I mean, come on. These are all funny.

23, Kamala Harrison Dorser, Liz Cheney. No. Is that the ultimate Aaron Sorkin fantasy? Liz Cheney runs for the Democratic nomination. That's an American movie right there. I mean, I would argue that that is a big reason why they lost. Oh, because she... Elevating Liz Cheney, man.

Nobody wants to see her out there. And Dick? Yeah. I was like, nobody... That is not inspiring. Right. Keep them away. from us. Number 24, Pennsylvania

Center, John Fetterman. Number 25, I put Tech mogul or Pop Culture persona to be named later. Okay, so let's try to name, I mean, when you say TechMogel, I'm, certainly you're not talking about like Sam Altman or somebody like that, right? So who would even be the mogul? I don't know. That's...

Zuckerberg. Is that Zuckerberg? Is that? Zuckerberg's already kind of... Yeah, he made his choice. Yeah. He made his choice. Well, for pop culture, Joel put John Stewart, on the list. That is another fan. I've seen people talking about it lately.

It's a dream candidate. Like it's, it's, it's the, the two, the two candidates that are, my two dream candidates, obviously Michelle Obama, uh,

and then John Stewart. Here's a thing about John Stewart that people underestimate. Uh, is that John Stewart isn't as he is he's not one of you

he is but he's not like John when Kill Tony went up and did the whole thing at the deal John Stewart defended that as a comedian as a comedian yeah yeah like John Stewart is

continuously in dieting his own side for what he thinks is their to meet the moment. Incredibly well read has actually not just is not like a media talking head like someone else has actually gone to bat for veterans. Yep. Has been politically involved, has put something on the line and actually had a cause.

Sat up there with the lady that was, at that time, I think she was the Undersecretary of Defense. Do you remember that? They were on stage and they were talking about the fact that the United States, this was under Joe Biden that the military couldn't pass an audit. And he was talking about how the fact that the military couldn't pass an audit

in it of itself was most likely evidence of waste for an abuse. And it didn't matter that she was from an administration that he was probably more favorable to. He was calling her out because he was doing it on behalf of veterans. He was doing it on behalf of people who continuously get told

that there's not enough money in the budget for their health care, for their housing, for things like that, where we can't really account for the money that we're using the build Reaper drones or buy them and all of that stuff like that. So what it seemed like in that moment to me was that he'll call out whoever he has to call out if it's in the service of people. He is a celebrity.

He doesn't have any experience as a public servant, but he is the type of guy who can make the case to America about how absurd things are and if he can make the case to America about how to set them right I think people will vote for. There's two pieces I come out of this with. So the one thing,

he embarrassed Tucker Carlson so much that I think he radicalized him all over. It's his fucking fault. Yeah. The entire thing is his fault. I was watching it live and I said he will never recover from this.

But he did recover. He recovered by because, one of the biggest monsters of misinformation that we have. Absolutely. The thing is is that comedy is so powerful and if you can wield it in the right way, it can really be an effective

political device, which is why. And he's very earnest, too. It's comedy with earnestness. I mean, about issues. When he was talking to Tucker Carlson, he was just like, stop, man. This isn't real, yeah. Yeah, stop. But the owl was a big Al Franken guy. Like, I thought, man, Al Franken would have been awesome.

In lieu of Al Franken, I'm like, Maybe John Stewart could be that guy, very well-read, very thoughtful guy, you know, maybe not left enough for me. But whatever. But I think that especially if he had to go against Trump again. I think he's pretty left. We'll never know. I mean, we'll never know if Trump would go again in 20, 28 or not. But if he did have to go against him, that is a guy that I would want on stage with him.

Because I think the one thing that you could do to take the steam out of Donald Trump and nobody has rarely been able to do it is humiliating. Embarrass him in public. I was reading a book about Tucker last week. his book coming out about Tucker and his whole life. And they said one of the founders of YouTube got the idea for the website because that clip was so viral with John Stewart. Paul Bagala was the other one on that stage. Paul Bagala.

But Jet was so viral. He's like, we need a better, smooth, or less clunky way to put videos on the web. That's crazy. That's how the empire was made. I remember watching Crossfire. I was going through a real shout to Mark Lamont Hill. This was why I first was getting introduced to Mark Lamont Hill.

And it was because he was on the O'Reilly factor at that point. Oh, yeah. He used to be on the O'Reilly factory with Bill O'Reilly. And I remember there was one clip where Bill O'Reilly, they were talking about drugs or something like that. Bill O'Reilly looked at Mark. And Mark said, you look like a drug dealer. And it's true. And Mark said, you look like a drug user.

I was like, I was like this. I like this. I love it. I was like a drug user. And so they, I was watching these shows and I saw John Stewart on there. And it looked like he went on there to destroy Crossfire. and he destroyed it. And for a while, he took a chunk out of Tucker's ass,

but then Fox brought him back. Tucker got him all the way back. And Trump brought him back. And Trump brought him back to. Joe threw an honorable mention on this list. Hunter Biden. Man, when I saw that interview, dog, I was just like the way that he related to people,

how honest he was and open about his conviction. He's available now. Thanks to his dad. He's available out of like, nobody has gone through the Trump shit more than him. And he's kind of came through it. He's been through a lot of shit. He's not the Trump shit. It's a lot of shit. It's a lot of shit.

Man, nobody has ever been accused of using crack and the person that was in the room with him. Be like, but I felt safe with that guy. Like, to me, like,

he just has the game in a bearing that I'm like, I could see people gravitating toward him. He's like, I've fallen, I've had a very difficult time and I've merged from it better and I want to serve my country.

And I'm not afraid of these guys. What else can they take from me? Because I think that's one of the things that hurts a lot of Democratic politicians that they're afraid. He ain't afraid. You don't think the Burisma, Ukraine, all of that stuff is like too. I think it's like it's like Trump.

There's so much of it. It's so inscrutable that people just can't. Yeah. Burisma. God. Is it a Burisma? I never want to know. No, you said it right.

It's the word I just never want to hear again. Yeah. Can we put these in order? Sure. Michelle's your number one. Michelle's my number one. Who's your number two? My number two is John Stewart.

John Stewart. Yeah. Top category, Bashir Moore. Westmore, number three. Westmore three, but sure four. Okay. And then let's next. Kelly?

Mark Kelly, yeah. He's five? Yeah. Okay. What do we say about? Where's AOC and Newsom and Shapiro and Pritz. AOC goes next. Six?

Newsom, Shapiro, Pritzker, Gallego. You got Newsome, then... Where's Newsom at? Seven. Yeah, that's about right. You got Newsom and then you have... I've already put AOC, right? Yes, he did.

He was sick. She was six. Okay. You have Newsom, then you have Pritzker. Oh, yeah, hold on. Shapiro, Gallego. Shapiro. Nine.

Iger? Iger. Ten? Well, Iger made 10. Yeah, Iger made 10. Wait, what you said about Big Gretch, though? Does she go ahead? I don't think she wanted is the problem.

I don't think she's viable. All right. So I have Gallego, Booker, Buda, Judge, in the next category. Okay, put Jasmine Crockett right there. Oh, Jasmine Crockett. Okay. She's 11?

Yeah, put Jasmine Crockett right. Okay. Okay. I think that she has some growing to do towards the left for me, but I think she will listen to people enough to, to grow to the left. I think we can appeal to Jasmine. I think she cares about people that much.

Right now she's not somebody who I, but I think that. Okay, she's 11. Yeah. We need a 12. Cuban, Cuban. Stephen, Harris Wall Kamala Buttigieg

Yeah Budgege 11 12 he can't get that far down Yeah 12 13 Gallego Booker Tala Rico Gallego

Diego Yeah you go Okay 13 Then Booker Okay Then Gallego Okay

Where about Marquette We already had He was You had him high Yeah yeah yeah Okay We already had Gallego Booker's 14

Okay Did you know that we skipped Rokana? Oh, I forgot about Rokana. Put Rokana right there. He pissed me off right now. Okay. Really? He's 15. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, Rokana. Wait, what did Rokana do? Terrible vote on the appropriations bill.

Oh, okay. After the terrible vote and a stupid, stupid fucking answer as to why he voted for it. He's one of his claims to fame. It's immediate claim to fame. I will do your podcast. He did. He did. I know. Yeah, he's Honda. Yeah. Whoever you are.

Prestige Van Lathen podcast, I will do that, but I will also do any. I will do your podcast. I like Roe generally stupid vote, stupid reason why he voted. Who else do we have? Sorry, I left Roecona out. We have-I did Pritzker? Did you already say that? Yeah, Pritzker's on there.

He's on there. Harris Walls, Stephen A, Telerico, Gretchen. Harris-Nex, Walls after her. You got Harris after Jasmine Crockett, huh? Yeah. Okay. Okay, so who's left? Big Gretch, Tala Rico, Stephen A, Bernie.

It legitimately doesn't. Bernie, it doesn't matter what order you put those people. in. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So this is your top 17. Yeah.

Okay. We're not, uh, Federman list Cheney Cuban. We're not, we don't, all of these people are unelectable for president to me. No Hunter Biden. No,

I'll, I, I, I, you know what? I would be, like, I'm, look,

Hunter Biden described, uh, what makes a crack so delicious. Yeah. And that was an amazing. It was. That was an amazing interview. And I,

he, for the first time, he made me get it. You know what I mean? He made me get it. Like, where I'm from, there's nothing worse that you could be other than a crackhead and not treated with very much humanity. But leave it to a white dude. Can you believe that? It was Hunter Biden was the person who did that. From like, from Hunter Biden. All the other crackheads, we treat them with zero humanity.

Hunter Biden was like, listen, there are these receptors in your brain and all of that. It was like, I can fuck with that. This is incredibly fun. It was very fun. Will you come back and do the Republican depth chart? Can't wait. That one is actually better because I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to challenge you guys. How many names for the Democrats did you get to?

27. I'm going to challenge you guys. Okay. You guys can't conjure 15 viable Republican candidates. Okay. I could do it probably even right now. It's impossible. You can't conjure 15 viable Republicans.

And there's a name in there that I think is probably the most. dangerous for me and the most electable Republican right now has not made their name has not thrown their name in the ring yet current office holder

current office holder huh I can't wait all right so can we do this next month is that possible the Republican debt chart Joel will be on that screen over there he won't be here

I'll be here yes yes yes I would love that we would love and you guys will it'll be a better podcast because I'll have less to say that's a worst podcast I won't be coming off of a sickness man If I burped into the mic today, anybody. I heard your stomach a couple of times.

We get the mic picked that up. Really? Yeah. Early on. It was early. Yeah. I'm having a rough couple. I'm having a rough couple.

Stop. Yeah. All right. He's Van Lathen. He's Joel Anderson. I'm Brian Curtis. Protects your magic by Bruce Baldwin. Coming up next week, three-man weave with you, me, and Shoemaker.

We'll have more lukewarm takes about the media. Thank you guys. I appreciate you, bro.