The Press Box - The Holiday Mailbag Episode

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

Hello, media consumers! Today's episode is a special holiday mailbag episode wherein Bryan and Joel answer your questions, as well as some they have for each other. The show starts out with a discussion about what media they enjoy in their free time (02:29) before they dive into questions like “What was the most overcovered story this year?” (12:06), “What publication would you bring back from the grave?” (24:16), and “What are your favorite book finds of the last five years?” (40:45). All that and more, here on The Press Box. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and Joel Anderson Producer: Bruce Baldwin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello media consumers. Welcome to press box. Welcome to what might be the final press box of 2025. But Joel, you never know when important journalism news could break. And you and I are back at the barricades once again. I know. What would be a reason for an emergency press box pod? I mean, like would somebody have to die or would,

I mean, it wouldn't be like to, to talk about Sharon Moore, right? Like, we wouldn't do an emergency pod on that. No, that's emergency tailgate. Yeah, that's emergency tailgate. So stand by. Yeah. Yeah, we don't know what the other developments are going to be in that case for sure.

You got Brian Curtis Joel Anderson, producer Bruce Baldwin here. Joel, we thought we'd do a mailbag episode. Oh, yeah, man. That's a very end of the year show thing to do. It is. It's a gimmick, you might say. But let me put kind of a classic coat of paper. pain on this because when Shoemaker

and I were researching the New Yorker episode, I was looking in the very early 1920s history of the New Yorker and they would occasionally print letters from readers under the heading Our Disillusion Correspondence. That's funny. So let's call

this mailbag episode our disillusion listeners. All right. Even if they're mostly still illusion. I think so. Yeah, I mean you can read the comments. Sometimes some of them even more than disillusioned. They are. It's a happy listener group, though, as

the most part go. Yeah, I would say, considering we're talking about stuff that is often, you know, inflammatory. I mean, the world is different. I'm not used to being on camera as much

and people hating me. You know what I mean? Like, that is a weird thing. You don't get into journalism, typically, like, you don't, most people,

you don't expect them to know who you are. So the idea that there are people that's just like, when I hear Joel Anderson, I turn off whatever I'm listening to, that's just the, That's a different phenomenon to have to think about. Yeah. Yeah, that wasn't in the comment section in the early 2000s.

No. When I was doing the agate page, nobody. I turned away from the bull riding results because Joel Anderson touched these. All right, question one is from Jamie and Milwaukee. Covering media for your day job. Are there newspapers, magazines, columnist, podcasts, etc.? You consume strictly for enjoyment or is consuming media almost impossible to be off the record.

You want to go first? Actually, I'll prefer if you go first. Okay. I mean, for me, it's books. Okay. That's my escape. Okay. And like at night, probably, you know, kids are asleep,

had some time to talk to Christine, winding down. That's when I will turn to books. And first of all, I sleep much better if I read for like 30 minutes or an hour before I go to bed. I like that. And it may be novels. It may be nonfiction books about stuff that I'm not writing about or talking about tomorrow.

Yeah. That's my, that's my escape unplug off the record reading. I like that, man. That's really good. And so, and of course, your kids are at an age. You're reading physical books. Like you're in your bed reading a physical book. Yes, always, if I can help it.

I don't like reading on Kindle all that much. I will sometimes, but I just, to me, there's something very, very nice about holding a physical book in my hands. And plus, you know, there's so many in this house. Right. Including some new Yola Boko Flood acquisitions that all I have to do is turn right or left and there's a book I haven't read yet. I know. We have, I mean, I'm sure we spent probably over $1,000 on our move just on carrying books alone. I'm sure that was a huge part of it.

But, yeah, you know, so this is going to seem funny. I very rarely get a chance to read for just or consume media for just fun, but because my job is fun and because I usually get to, Brian, I'm sure you're a little bit the same way, because I usually get to follow my curiosity. What I end up doing is what I'm reading about is the fun thing, but it's also my work thing. So, you know, for instance, like I started,

I had the idea that I wanted to write about something when the National Guard came to D.C. So for the first time, I got Dream City, okay? But I got it on audiobook because, you know, I'm mostly in the dark. At the time of night, I want my kids to be asleep. I don't want any stuff going on. So I'm learning. I'm adjusting. So I take in a lot of audiobooks or reading on my Kindle and usually say, yes, about

stuff that's, you know, related to what I do for work. Or I listen to a lot of college football podcast because I do a college football pod, too. So is this stuff trying to take it? in that kind of information, but yeah, it's not, it's not really stepping away from work, but my job isn't one. My job is a, it's, it's my sanctuary from my real life, which is wonderful but hard. I hear you on that one. I always like mixing and matching, like, you know, hey, I'm sitting or reading something that's going to form a piece because you're right. One of the pleasures of doing this job is we get to like do the fun stuff as part of our work or the

interesting stuff, the stuff that most interests us. But I always, always just want to have 5% of my brain that is like, this is not going to be a piece that you're writing. You're not looking for a quote here or, you know, an insight here. You can just read this. You can just enjoy it. And then tomorrow we'll go back to our advanced media studies. I definitely think that would be better for me, just my brain and general disposition. And I think it would make me a better writer and thinker, too, if I did more of that.

Do you remember George Dorman, who used to work at Sports Illustrated? Yeah. Investigator reporter. Investigative reporter, great. He wrote the book, Play Their Hearts Out, which was about a kid who got identified really early in basketball. He's like the number one sixth grader and following him until he got into college as a basketball player. But anyway, he took a creative writing course and he read fiction, if I recall correctly, to help him his writing, but also like just kind of get his brain going in a whole different direction. you know and I always kind of wish that I'd mixed in more fiction or did stuff like that

but maybe someday you and I are nonfiction people and let me tell you something it's only been over the last I don't know five or so years since my kids got a little bit older that I started picking up novels again you know and I'm just like and it's really a happy place yeah yeah and it can be you know it can be the most highfalutin here's the book that I should have read 25 years ago and never read book it can also be like this way John La Carre is a secret pilgrim. I'm just, I just happy as hell reading that every day. Oh, yeah. Well, you know what? And I'm not, I'm giving a short strip to this because these people are writers and thinkers as well. I read to my kids all the time, probably for, you know, hour or two a day. And so I'm taking it,

Dr. Seuss. You know, I'm getting back into Dr. Seuss again. There's another book called Caps for cell that I really like. I mean, man, people that write for children, man, they are really, I mean, if it's done well, it can be really brilliant and it can really change the way you sink and look at the world, you know, adjust your perspective. And so that I would also say that's kind of a part of the stuff that I'm doing for fun or taking in because I'm learning along with them. I'm re-learning all these old stories and stuff. It's so funny because when I started, when I was about to have kids, I would notice that all the people about my age in journalism would all of a sudden become children's books critics in their professional life. They'd start writing like

a hit piece about the little engine that could. Oh my God. And it was just so. clearly that they were reading to their kids the same books over and over and over and over. And you're right. You're like, you're like start like, oh, Berenstein Bears, awesome. Yes. This other book, horrible. I don't ever want to read this again. This has no plot. This is, this is terrible. And you become a very, very discerning literary critic of that genre. Oh, but look, I was a huge Berenstain Bairns fan as a kid. Like my head, I'm all over the place. And now my kids have kind of started getting into them.

surprisingly a little weaker than I remember. Really? See? I don't enjoy them as much as I thought I would. You know, I was like, man, what was I kind of into here? I'm going over my, I felt like Dr. Seuss was greatly underappreciated in my, you know, for me. But the Berenstain Bears, I was like, some of these, I mean, sometimes they just kind of take the easy way out, like, you know, just the narrative plotline. I'm just like, hey, man, come on. What do you, why did you, why did you go there? But anyway.

We're sending all our love this holiday season to the estate of Stan and Jan, Barron Stain. Yep, that's right. They did a lot for us and our kids today. This is from Adam Steiner. If you were handed the keys to CNN tomorrow with a mandate to make it watchable again, what is your day one programming schedule? Does the sports reporters get a prime time revival on the new CNN?

I want to make a joke, but I don't know if I'm allowed to do it. Well, you are allowed to make a joke. All right. I'm going to say it. Okay. I'm going to go ahead and say it and you support me after it's over.

I'm going to do a town hall with Lewis Farrakhan. Really? No, I was just shitting with you. I was just joking, man. I'm not going to do that. That's the worst thing you've said since you ran

down the barrenstains. Yeah, right. Yeah, no, I'm not going to do that, man. No, I just, I'll be funny. But, no, I mean, I mean, I think the reason, and this is, you tell me, I don't,

this is one of the things. I don't presume that I have the expertise to know what a great TV lineup would be. And so I think there's a reason that most of the programming ends up sort of looking the same because they've tested a lot of this stuff out. And so you have this kind of person reading news here. And, you know, maybe you have a few short documentaries or whatever. But I just kind of feel like news networks look like the way they do for the reason they do, right? Yeah, and I just think that's something we should think about more in 2026 because if we're going to bag on all these people, we should at least try to think of ideas for what the future should look like. And to me, it's just always like changing the grammar of TV news. That's the hardest thing because that's what people are doing. They're taking the wheel and they're repainting the wheel. And that's all they're doing. And you're like, okay, look, look, a lot of like cable news, especially CNN, like, I like, I like,

like Jigtapper show when I watch. I like Yidderson Cooper. I like all those. I think those people do a really nice job. They ask good questions. They're smart. They're really good at synthesizing things. But I'm like, what's this going to look like when people aren't watching cable news? What is CNN going to be?

Right. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot. They're taking in a lot. And that's why you see so many bells and whistles and the crayons and the breaking news things. Because they're trying so desperately to keep you watching TV, which is why Adam, unfortunately, I don't think we'll be bringing back the sports reporters because I think that

that would probably look like, you know, like local programming. Like, you know, you go like community TV, I bet now. Just because, I mean, it wasn't, they set in like a bar or something, right? It wasn't even like a great sound stage. I think it was on a, it was on a set. Well, they did ESPN zone for a few years. Maybe they did. Yeah.

They did it out of ESPN zone for a little bit. But yeah, but like it didn't, there wasn't a lot of bells and whistles. I'm imagining that would look really boring on TV today. So no, I don't, I don't think we would do that. This is from Carson Grigsby. What was the most overcovered story of the year? I can answer that. Olivia Nutsi.

Yeah, I mean. And you know who overcovered it? Raised my hand. This podcast. Absolutely. And it was, it was one of those things where like, it was so interesting. Mm-hmm. and irresistible.

I do think I got to the point. We mentioned it in our year-in show with David, but I just have gotten the point where it's like, okay, I'm probably complete with this saga now. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of funny because I know that people care about this,

the people that listen to this podcast, right? I have a sense that and people will DM me or say, hey, you said this about that, or I'm interested in this, or I want to hear you talk about that. And it's just really, it's really telling because I'm like, well, man,

And maybe that's 600 people, you know? Because I mean, the, because nobody wanted to buy that book, right? And so the world of people that were talking about is really, really small. And so in retrospect, yeah, it was overcovered. And especially because it did not get into, I mean, the RFK of it all. Like, there's just no real analysis of like the kind of person he was and what he was doing. Right. Consequence for him.

Consequence for it. Yeah. It just didn't matter to him at all or to his standing in the administration. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, I hope for Olivia Nutsi and Ryan Liza that they don't have, that, well, maybe not, she doesn't get a byline, but that the only time we hear about Ryan Liza in 2026 is when he's writing about something else or not himself. It was really interesting because I did have people, listeners come to me and say,

I didn't know anything about this person, but I listened to you guys talk about her. Like that that was my entree into that whole thing. Something that everybody we know in journalism, particularly like, political journalism world or adjacent to that is obsessed with and is very very plugged in on right a lot of people who are outside were just like i was just eavesdropping on the whole thing through you guys just no idea who that was no real interest in it and it's just again it's funny when you have when you step out of the bubble yeah i mean i guess maybe that's something you know maybe there's an episode or something we need to investigate why we kept talked about it so much then

you know i mean like i think it's obvious it's evident while we just talked about it, but like, why is it evident if nobody really cares and we agree that it's undercover? I mean, some story has to be the most undercover, though, right? Like, there was going to be one. This happened to be that one. Overcovered, you mean, yeah. Yeah, overcovered.

Sorry. Yeah, Overcovered. Olivia, not undercovered by any means. Not at all. This is from Michael Callahan, who asked us about barbecue line conversations. I was in a barbecue line over Thanksgiving, as you know, in Fort Worth, starting at like 930 in the morning. I think we ate at about 1215. So it's about a two hour

and 45 minute journey with Christine and I have the barbecue line. Michael writes, I was at Interstellar barbecue in Austin in August and was randomly talking to people in line and met a guy who owns a sports bar in South Bend, Indiana. Who are some interesting people you've met or stories from a barbecue line? And he

attached a picture of his tray from Interstellar for our review. You have any barbecue line stories? I only have one, and this is interesting, because I think we talked about this before. Houston wasn't really known for barbecue when I was growing up. And, you know, I don't remember the conversations I had at city market in Luling, Texas,

you know, when I was nine years old. But the one that comes to mind is the one most recently when I was in Austin, and I cannot remember the exact reason. And I met this really nice family from New Orleans. And it was some football-related reason. But somehow we figured out that we knew the same person. And I don't know how long it took. for us to talk and be like, oh, yeah, we have this person in common.

And it was a, it was a mother and a son, and they were in town to do something related to football. And we just, we talked the whole time. And I got their number. And as soon as I got their number, I was like, I'm never calling you again, but I'm glad that this happened. And so, like, that's, that's one of the ones I had. What about, I mean, you, I mean, you've had some great ones just the, just the last time you did it. Well, I think we turned some people off on this one, because we were reading the Financial Times weekend section in the barbecue line. Oh, look at those coastal elites who are over here in Texas eating some barbecue. That was a little bit of a rough, rough introduction.

But, I mean, the guy in front of me who had this t-shirt that said, sometimes I'd just be farting with a picture of a frog and the frog was farting. And I was in the line for like, you know, again, two hours. And I was like, the guy had sunglasses on. And I was just like, I don't know if this guy's going to be mad if I want to take a picture of his shirt. I genuinely think this is awesome. So finally I kind of plucked up the courage. And of course, he was incredibly nice because it's Texas.

That's really. And I took a picture of his shirt. And then he said, yeah, my wife gave it to me. And she said, I bet you won't wear that out in public. And he, in fact, I did. And when I mentioned this on an earlier podcast, I've had a bunch of listeners send me the link to the sometimes I'd just be farting T-shirt.

So if anybody... Would Christine let you wear that out in public? Uh, sure. Okay. I'm not sure she would be in public with me, but she might be. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah, it's like, all right. That's a solo trip.

I had a question for you, sir. If I may butt into this mailbag. Oh, man. Okay. Who's the author you read when you forget how to write? Ralph Wiley. Okay. Catherine Boo.

I mean, those two. in particular. And then sometimes I'm always going back because Friday Night Lights inevitably has the range of things that I care about in life, Texas football, race, politics, all that stuff. And so I'll end up going and read a lot of that.

And so you know what? Man, you know, I know people have had some issues with him of late. But Michael Lewis, I think Michael Lewis is really good at explaining very complicated things. And I'm really envious of that gift. So, yeah.

Yes. Sometimes you need the, Michael Lewis is also a writer who's, his prose is great without being overly adorned. Yeah. He's not trying to be fancy with it. No. And sometimes when you get stuck as a writer, what you want to do is read really great unadorned prose. Yep. Because I feel that straightens you out.

Sometimes you're too nodded or trying to be too fancy. Yeah. He's just really, yeah, it's just, the words and the people and the anecdotes just hit you. It's just like, okay, I'm right here. I'm right here with you. He's really effective at putting you in that scene. And yeah, he doesn't take you out of it by being overly flowery or, you know, trying to have some sort of glamour to his writing that really is unnecessary like American Canto. What about you?

What do you read? I'm looking because, you know, I keep a little group of books behind my desk. I would say Susan Orlean was on the podcast. Oh, yeah. She's great, man. I didn't ask for any tips, but she's always on there. Mark Liebevich, the political writer is always on there just because he's so funny and just has a great, I feel like that like turns my brain on in a happy way, so funny and so smart. Who else is on my list?

I got to turn around. Tim Cahill, the travel writer. Oh, yeah. Also funny, funny, smart, just a way of being evocative. Those would be the big three. And sometimes I'll dip into other things, but then I'll find like, the problem is then you just want to read. He was like, oh, I just want to read this book right now. I was like, no, no, you got to write something.

You've got to do your own. You can get lost in that stuff. And sometimes you just got to get to it. But yeah, no, man, I think I'm glad to know that other people do that. Because sometimes I just like, I have my books right here. And I'm like, man, let me just see if I can get something to get me through this section right here. You know, like an approach, a word, whatever that might help me. Isn't it funny all the crutches we have when you sit down and try to write a piece or try to do something with creative like that?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, man. I mean, you just develop a habit at that time. I remember when I used to always just have like my, when I would just have the SARS right here when you would have a physical copy. And I'd just be thumbing through it. Like I was like, maybe I'm going to get some sort of inspiration in here.

Well, wait, okay. So this is obviously a bit. We planned this out, but I'm going to ask Brian a question now. Okay. You ready? Wait, this isn't just completely out the top of your head? No. No, we have a document that we're all reading.

I know that peep nonsense. Transparency and podcast. Transparency, yeah. Welcome behind the curtain. Tell me about your writing routine and practice. Like, where do you write? What is the setting? What do you need to get it done?

Always in this room that you're talking to me in right now. I love that room. You guys have got to see Brian's room, man. It's off the chain. I love it. I love it. Everybody come over. Let's hang out.

That's right. That's right. Live episode there. The only interesting thing about it. So I like to do from the same computer. I'm not somebody who takes a laptop to a coffee. shop or anything like that that would just be awful to me as an as an only child like other people around me would just just you know drive me completely insane um the only thing that's interesting

is that i like i find i do better when i read a draft in a different place than the place i wrote it in so if i'm working i'm looking at the screen over and over again what i'll do is i'll just print it out over and over and over again really read it on paper and then, you know, fix it up on, fix it up, and then print it again, print again, especially at the very end, I'll probably print hundreds and hundreds of pages for any piece of anything like just over and over and over again. Because I find that you just read it somehow just the act of picking it up on a, you know, and reading it separately from the device. That makes it more clear to me. I don't know. Man, you're out here printing, man. You have a printing. You go get print cartridges to make this work.

And, well, that's the thing. It's like, it feels so dumb and so, you know, 1984 or whatever. So you're just like, hey, Christine, I'm out of ink. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, man. I forbade my wife from getting a printer. I was like, nobody uses a printer.

Once you buy a print. You kind of, you kind of do it once in a while. Yeah. And you have any interesting writing habits? No. I mean, I write in hell. You know, once my good, my good, my, I feel Adam. doesn't mind. A good friend of mine, Adam Serwer, he, for a brief moment, he was my editor. So the great Adam

Sarah who coined, The Cruelty is the Point at the Atlantic. We used to work together at the BuzzFeed in D.C. And he was briefly one of my national editors. And he would just see me right, man. And I'd have dive mountain dew everywhere. You know, I'd be, you know, 36 hours into not showering because I'd just stayed up and tried to write all the way through. And he said, man, you should go to a therapist. about your writing. He's like the way, because it's just very painful. He said, me and Mark, Mark Schoves, my other mentor. He's like, we noticed like how painful it is for you to write. You could, you would really benefit from going to therapy. I actually, and to his point, it wasn't exactly that, but I have done some work with that and found that I did have some

issues. And it's, you know, I'm a much more efficient and clear writer, I think, today than I have been, in part because of that. But it's just, you know, I mean, some of it is also, like, literally I don't have a lot of time. Like, I have to use my work time because if I don't use my work time, I would never have any time to do anything. That's so interesting. I have recently started consulting a person about some of my own writing stuff, which I'll be ready to talk about at some point. Okay.

I'll tell you about it. I'll love to hear you. We'll talk about on the podcast sometime. Okay. Freshly Snipes. Freshly. As is this question. Thank you freshly. If you could bring one publication back from the grave, what would it be? See, this is so hard because everything exists in a time and place. Yeah, man.

I'd love to bring like 80s Sports Illustrated back. 80s Sports Illustrated wouldn't work in 2025. Man, like, I was just feeling like wouldn't it have been cool or not cool, but you, the Sports Illustrated story on Sharon Moore last week, I was like, man. And this is the time when I really missed that kind of Sports Illustrated. If we'd been waiting for it, right? Like, nobody had done it for like two weeks. Yeah.

And we're like, okay, here it is. It's amazing. Maybe George Norman did it. You know, like, and we're like, this is unbelievable. But the thing is, it wouldn't hold. It wouldn't, we would have already been pecked to death. And we'd read and be like, I already knew this. Yeah, right.

Yeah, I just like, yeah, the Austin Murphy, you know, feature on that. And, you know, check in the pulse of the town in Ann Arbor. Yeah, that would have been cool. I mean, see, we both have. had the idea and it's had the idea that it would be cool to have sports illustrated but actually I mean I would I would preserve a newspaper for one like I would if I could bring back the Houston Post or the doubt you know whatever whatever is left of the Dallas morning news of Fort Worth Star Telegram like I would love to save one of those you know journalism pet

cemetery yeah man where they come back I mean see that to me to me newspapers still work in today. Like we get, we still get the print edition of the times here. Yeah. And sometimes the stories are a couple of days old. They've been, I'll look and I'll be like, oh, this ran online like four days ago, but I didn't read it. Right. And it's great because it's still a great digest of the news. And I think that almost works. I mean, I would say like Spy Magazine would be fun to read in 2025. Yeah. Oh. About internet culture. Old S.I. would always be fun. Grantland really feels like it's from its own time and place. I don't know if I would pet cemetery Grantland.

I'm going to say for just selfish community building reasons, I wish Albany would still exist. I wish I could go into a person's house. And I just felt like you could learn something about a person by the ebonys they had out or if they had an ebony in the house. And obviously, I wouldn't expect to go into David's house and it would be ebony on the counter. I'm just talking about, you know, growing up. But beyond that.

David's shoemaker? Yeah, David's shoemaker. Yeah, a bruce. Like, you don't know. You don't know. It's not required to have an ebony in your house, man. I get it. It's fine.

But, I mean, this is a magazine that I wanted to work for as a kid. And I kind of feel like because people don't treat music as seriously as they used to. So Vibe Magazine. So when Vibe Magazine was running hot in the 90s and they did all this great coverage of hip hop culture, it was one of the magazines I really wanted to work for as a kid. And I wish, I guess, like, if I'm excluding all these other ones that I've got specific reasons for, it was just a pet project, a vanity thing. It would probably be 1990s vibe.

This is from Don Michael. What happened to J-School, man? It started at the top of the show, got moved to the end, and now that effort is gone. Is it coming back? You know what? So I think it's going to be more of a non-college football season thing. Because, you know, I just have to be honest.

Like, it has been a lot this fall. And so I want to, you know, I don't want to offer y'all some, you know, undercooked J school stuff. You know, I don't want, I don't want you to be protesting to the dean that you're not getting the education you ask for. So, yeah, no, when I have a little bit more time when I don't have to do two college football podcast a week, then I would expect that I will be doing that a little bit more often. But thanks for asking. Thanks for missing it.

This is from T.K. Parks. What is the best pun headline either of you have ever thought up for a piece you've written or read that ultimately wasn't used? I actually haven't answered this question Oh, okay The one time One time I was thinking of doing a parody piece About the best sports writing of the year And this is when the best sports writing book

Was still rolling in its earlier Glendstout form Oh yeah man And you were starting to see certain similarities Of stories over and over again Yeah You know, a certain kind of magazine story will always get picked for that volume no matter what was actually the best sports writing of the year. Oh, yeah.

Well, a game story will never make it. Right. So I had this idea. It's like I'm just going to come up with, as for a funny piece, I'm just going to come up with 10, the best sports writing of, I don't know when this was like 2014 or something. I'm just going to come up with 10 fake stories. and put like a punny magazine headline on them and they'll almost be

they'll be really nearly real so that you'll look at it and you're like well that's funny but does that really exist is that really a story right so that was the idea Joel and the only one I came up with this was the subhead Wright Thompson goes hunting

with a former New Orleans Saints quarterback as he reflects on his memories of football glory Okay, that was like that. You know what the headline was? What was it? Does A Bear shit in the woods? Oh, I love it.

That's so good. That is so good. If you remember the career of the great Bobby A Bear. I love that. I came up with that and I never did anything. I love it. Amazing. This is from B for Joel.

Tell the Mark Curry story when you were working for Slate. Oh, man. It's not that big of a deal. I mean, so yeah, I had to talk to Mark Curry because I wanted to do a piece on Did he? And he, you know, so he's a person who is sort of famous people have heard of him, but he's easy to get to because, I mean, you know, nobody's followed him on social media. Like you can, you know, you can get direct feedback from Mark Curry. So I reached out to him.

He, we agreed to do it. And he is just one of the strangest people I've ever interviewed in my life. Like, I mean, bar, now he's very cryptic, very, he talks in sort of riddles. You can understand why he's a good rapper because he just. has it. You can almost get mesmerized by his voice. But the one thing I remember is like we're about an hour until our conversation. And he goes, uh, you want me to spook you out, bro? I won't spook you out real quick. You want me to spook you out? And he lights up like right on, I can hear the, I can hear him, you know, lighten up his joint. And I wish I could tell, but it was something

about how puffy and God and the devil or something like that. It was like very mystic. But I was just like Damn, man. He had me in a trance. Like, best believe Mark Curry is a fascinating person to talk to. I was, I was riveted. But he was just very, I was like, ooh, this mo. He really, I was like, he really could unnerve me with his story. Like, whatever, you know, it was the kind of thing that I was like, he's very capable of giving me a traumatic experience just by him telling me a story. I love that. This is from Tyler. I'll keep it simple. What is your favorite cliche end of the year recap list? gimmick. I don't know if I have one that stands out. I just love how list mania has taken us has taken over podcasting to such a degree that we keep lowering the bar for what a list is. Oh, yeah. Remember several years ago when we would have an addition of the NFL draft and be like, all right, the too early edition of next year's NFL draft like a day later? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Or the too early top 25 for next year at college football. Yeah, immediately. But even

then like there's going to be no football between the end of one football season and the top 25 for week one right right draft is we're going to play a whole season of college like we things are going to happen here people are going to get hurt people are got to play terribly and people you never heard of like arville rice are going to play their way into the top five of the draft yeah so i just feel like we kept this like all right uh you know the first week of january what are the best movies of the year so far. Like, well, we were kind of a small data set. Maybe we should wait a bit to do that. Um, this is from Q USA 14. Why do you do the ridiculous production magic thing? Wow. My least favorite part of the show. Probably because I have no idea why you do it. I didn't realize,

man, that you had hate mail in here. This is the rare piece of hate mail. I turn off the show every time you do production magic, but it's at the end of the show. So I've already listened to the show. um the thank you uh kusa 14 or q u s a 14 for that um the first of all there's two reasons i do that one is i like bill raftery do you like bill raftery joel yeah i'm bill rafty friend and when the beginning of the game you know he goes and and they're in the one-on-one you know he's like he just he just tells you what the defense is yeah yeah yeah always love that was a really good that was a really good uh raftery there that's where pretty sad saturday comes from and the other one is i used to listen to this sports radio host in Dallas

named Mike Reiner and he would always he would never say something remember Rines he would never say something straightforward that he could say creatively so when he was talking about the people working on his show in the control room he would say so and so twisting and tweaking the dials and I always loved how

just cool 70s radio that was and I was always like it can't just be produced by you have to just put a little like. Man hold on is Riner still alive man is he okay? Riner's still absolutely still with us. Okay, I can't mean, you know, he's, I text from Reiner from time to time. At that age, he sounded old to me. So I envisioned him

as being like in his late 80s right now. I know he's not that old. It was a particular kind of voice, you know. It was. Yeah, that, man, him and Grego, man. I used to listen to Riner and Grego all the time. So they're unfortunate unpartying. Divorce. As it were. Yeah. Divorce. It happened. As we know, as we know, it happens a lot now. It does. You know, the whole, the whole, like, you know, podcast team, and I guess it was radio team before splitting up.

That's just a fascinating thing because as a person who was like watching that, I'm like, why in the hell you guys have an amazing show? It's so successful. Why would it ever, why would you ever split up? Yeah. And now doing a podcast, but this is not a prelude to an announcement. Oh, I was like, what? I love you and Dave forever.

But I can just see that like when something is professional rather than. entertainment. You're like, well, of course it's hard, just like any other workplace situation. Of course you've got things you've got to, you know, get through and you have good days at the office and you have bad days at the office and that makes sense.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, and people just grow, man. I mean, it's hard to, I mean, the reason that you're so affectionate and you think so much of your friends is because you have to go through a lot of stuff. And these are people that you love.

You know, that you come, they come to your organic. in life. And so just imagine, like, work is different. Like, you come to know each other in professional context and you grow, you have a personal friendship. But even then, it's just like, you know, people change and, you know, they want to do something else or, you know, or they get mad at each other for a stupid reason, a slight that nobody knows the same, the same reason. So, yeah. Totally. And, and, you know, the idea of a podcast, just like the idea of sports radio before it was to convince you that these people were best friends. Yep. You know, to convince you their professional

relationship was a personal relationship. Sometimes it is. I think your relationship with me and vice versa, pretty much the air is what it is when we're talking on the phone and everything else. It's not that different. But a lot of people, it's not, right? It was, it was, you know, it's artifice. That's part of the show. I mean, the biggest

like Stephen A and Max Kellerman, man, you know? Like they wore the number one show and you know, like sometimes, yeah. I don't get the impression, you know, Skip Bayliss is kind of like that. I've heard the same thing about him too. This is like he's got his own life. He's, you know, him whatever his wife's name is.

I was about to call it Geraldine. I'm pretty sure. Ernestine. Ernestine. There you go. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, it's tough. But, you know, yeah, the difference is here, of course, is that you got to, you know,

there's chemistry. The reason sometimes often will put you together, and I assume that that's why they put us together and other people's like, oh, y'all would get along, you know? Y'all would be able to do something cool together. And so they try it that way and see what happens. This just came in from Luke Hanson says that a longtime press box fan I was first introduced and really have enjoyed listening to Joel on this show. I was excited to hear more specifically and exclusively talk ball on Tailgate.

And while I've enjoyed it, how is this the same person? I find this a true enigma. Pressbox, Joel comes off as curious, inquisitive, thoughtful veteran journalist. Tailgate, Joel is like the uncle who won't shut up or back down. Context be damned. And I love this. Great for content. So I've been puzzling over this for weeks and wanted to go to the source.

Who the hell is Joel Anderson? Is he press box Joel? Is he tailgate Joel? Is he someone else entirely allowing various ids and egos to play out publicly across different pods as the medium calls for it? Man, both of those people are Joel, but these are shows. I'm trying to keep you all entertained, you know? And so on here, I try to play up my best qualities, I think, and try to be patient and hear people out and be studious and thoughtful. And I try to do the same thing over at Tailgate.

But, I mean, our thing is more like we're trying to have fun the whole time. Like we're not really taking on, you know, hard, sad stories. You know, we punted. We recorded a whole segment about Sharon Moore on Wednesday. And then when that story came out about, on the athletic about the domestic violence stuff, I think I mentioned this already on the show. But, you know, we punted it. We were like, oh, yeah, well, forget that.

We can't put that in the show now. So yeah, it's just I'm trying to give y'all content, man. I'm trying to stretch myself, you know. Writing should have been enough. I just wanted to write. Like, I only did this because I liked to read. I liked it. I liked reading and writing.

And they made me do all this other stuff. And I enjoy it. I love it. It's been, I can't believe this is my career. But, man, you got to try to do some different stuff, bro. It's two sides of the same person, I think. I mean, you know, it's funny because when you first started tailgate, All these people are like, man, can you believe Joel on there?

And he's so great. And he's just going in a van. He's not backing down. I was like, yeah, I can believe it because you should see my text messages every Saturday. You should see as soon as Texas loses. Like, guess who, guess who's there? You know what? Yo, man.

And that's, that is funny because a big part of my life has been talking shit. And if I don't talk shit to you, man, I might not love you as much. You know what I'm saying? So sometimes I, like, I poke at people, man. It's just something I like to do and I do it in love. I hope it comes off as love. Totally. And it's like, hey, we work at a sports website.

Like, that's part of the fun, right? Like, you and I are huge sports fans for in real life. Yeah. But then we also have this other side of ourselves that we like to display on here. So that's nice. Man, that's funny, man. Yes. I mean, it's so weird to have to think about yourself and answer questions about your life.

This is what the mailbags for. Speaking to that, by the way, from Caldwell, I have to have the pod with Brian and Joel's significant others is they talk about being married to a journalist. Oh, man. Only one of our spouses has podcasting experience, so that might be a big of a lift on my man. I would be curious to hear Christi talk about her life and career

and meeting you. I would like to hear the meet cute. Oh, my goodness. Those are always fun stories. If you wanted, I mean, you could, once born a time a couple years ago, you could hear me and Jene do a segment every week. That's right.

That's right. You know, so yeah, man. But yeah, sure. Maybe we should have them. Maybe we should do, we should have a four block and have them all in here. Oh, my goodness. That might be even crazy than the three-man weave that we just did. I know, man. Yeah. Or even crazy at the ring or tailgate. Who knows? I was not going to say, somebody had to set picks, you know.

They might have an idea. Nick Field and Thermist asked the same question. What are your favorite book finds of the last five years? Oh, man. I have a good answer. this because I you know Joel I'm not much of a magical or mystical person yeah but the one a bit of mysticism that I do indulge is that I believe that books are in stores and they're just waiting for you to find them oh I like particularly in used bookstores mm-hmm you know so much

of our life has lived with an algorithm with if you liked you will also like this you know think you don't even get to discover anything anymore. You know, and of course, if you want to use a used book, you get on A Libras and I do that all the time, of course. But there is a certain magic to go into a bookstore walking into a section that you know you like those kind of books.

Maybe you go to a section, don't even know you like. And they're waiting for you as a book you didn't know existed. Oh, man. And that to me, those are the happiest moments for me. Well, I'll look at it, but like, wow, this looks great. I'm going to buy this and I'm going to read this.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I don't get to do that as much. Again, I'm not trying to complain about my life, but this is just what it is. You know, I used to have a lot of time and when in my free time, I would go to a bookstore and I would just spend hours, man. You know, I might spend a couple hours there reading a book in the back and then go keep looking, you know, if I was just listening to waste time on a Friday or Saturday or Sunday or whatever. And I'll get to do that as much. But yeah, I mean, that's one of the things I most enjoyed about life is that moment. when you had to half-priced books in Dallas. I went there a couple times for the first time,

a few years ago. And you all go there at night, you know, and I'm walking up and I just see all these books in here, man. I'm just walking around the stacks and stuff. And I was like, this is fantastic. Like, it just feels, it's so alive. And you're like, there's so, there's something in here I could read about, I don't know anything about it.

And I could be read up on it. Yes. Three days, you know. It's funny. A couple years ago, I somehow I stumbled across. It was an old Esquire piece. I think Esquire does like classic pieces. They had a piece Joe Klein.

I remember Joe Klein wrote about the guy who was the New York Times Bureau Chief in Managua, Nicaragua in the 80s? Damn. Guy named Stephen Kinzer, who was a big figure in journalism in that post because this is the time of the San and East is in the Contras. And this was American policy. And he was, you know, sort of translating the Nicaraguan Civil War for American readers. And I read that story.

I was like, that's interesting. And then I went to Half Price Books in Fort Worth. And there was Steve. Stephen Kinser's book about his days in Nicaragua called Blood of Brothers. And I was like, oh, wow, this is here for me to find. And I went, I read it. I think that was earlier this year. Oh, man.

And then I read another one of his books in Flagstaff, Arizona, which is about Guatemala. And I read that. And I was just like, it's just one of those things where it's like, you didn't, there's no way to draw any of that up. Yep. Absolutely. And it just kind of makes me kind of a magical, mystical person. Like I'm not in, in real life.

Well, no, you know, and see, there's, so there's. a couple of things. I'm trying to look over at my bookshelf and I've got something in front of it right now, so I can't tell. But the two funny ones for me and I ended up buying these books. I bought Art Browleses biography. Oh my God.

What did he have to say? Better or worse than a fucking conto? I can't wait. Yeah. And then the I think it was the widow of John Ritter wrote a book about him in their relationship. I don't know

what drew me to that and I just started reading it a little bit and I ended up buying that book. I never finished it, of course. But I was like, so I just felt good to buy. I was like, I would never read anything like this. But I actually kind of am curious to know what John Ritter was like in real life. It was like my TV dad, like a lot of kids at the 80s, man. I really love that guy. A couple more before we go and then we'll get out of here for the holidays.

This is for me, Brian in Los Angeles. What's your favorite interview you've ever done? Oh man, that's so hard, Brian. Damn. And I had a document here, too. I could have looked this up. Man, my favorite one? Okay.

You know what? I don't know if this is my favorite one, but it's the one that is most notable to me. It's so, well, actually, that's two. One, I interviewed Tupac's wife. He was married to somebody when he was in prison up in upstate New York. And I took me forever to chase her down.

And we ended up getting dinner together at, I can't remember the name of the Soul Food Restaurant in Harlem. And then she came to our slow burn show release, like the episode. If you listen to those episodes, you may notice that she never appeared. She never, we didn't get her to interview. But I think that, like, you know, she was just a really fun person to talk to.

And I was just impressed. I was like, oh, man. I felt like, I don't know, it just felt like an accomplishment to be able to, she was interested enough in the idea that she kind of hung around a little bit. And I could, I probably could text her right now and she might, she might respond. But it was. And then the other one was Michael Sam's dad. Michael Sam's dad, because it was so hard to get.

I remember that piece. It was so, it was such a hard interview to get. I worked so hard. It took me forever to track him down. And by the end of it, I was helping him to get his laundry. and buy 75 pounds of crawfish at the grocery store. So, and then the last time I saw him, I took into the Papadot in the Dallas area,

off 67, going out towards, you know, like DeSoto or Cedar Hill or whatever, something like that. And that was the last time I hadn't even passed, like, you know, four or five years ago. But, yeah, like, just the time I spent with him was just really interesting. So maybe those two. Peace in the Best American Sports Writing. That was your, does Abe?

bear shit in the woods. That's right. It was my bear shit in the woods, man. That was really, that story was really important to me. I felt like it turned, I felt like that whole story turned my life around. Like, my life changed in reporting it and everything that happened after. I told, I remember the day that story came. I remember where I was sitting

when I read that story. I don't even know you yet. Oh, man, that's funny. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, that's funny. Do you have anything else we want to get to? I got a question. Well, I don't know. Do you want me to ask you this? All right. This is from Joel Anderson and the DMV area. Shreveport, Louisiana. That's right.

Bojia, it was technically it was Bojure City. Excuse me, Bojur City. Yeah, Bojia City. No offense. What's the story or assignment that you couldn't pull together that still haunt to you? So I'm going to answer this without answering it because that's the stuff that just makes me the maddest about my wonderful, happy career, those stories. Yeah.

And there's often a not great explanation for it. You know, it's just like got busy with other things, just didn't. you know, couldn't push it over the top of the mountain, whatever it is. It was never a bad answer. Like, oh, I was stuck in a closet for three months and couldn't write. It was like, ah, I just did something else instead. But those things haunt the hell out of me. And in some of them, there's still folders in this room of all the notes from it

or all the stuff from it. Like I'm going to pick it up again someday, even though it's been 10 years or whatever it is. And I don't even want to mention what they are because it would just make me mad. But those are the things. And it's like one of those things as a journal. some of it's probably like a failure of nerve but some of it's just not trusting your instincts right your instincts told you this was a good story you did all the word why didn't you or why didn't you just finish it or your instincts told you this is a good story you never made the first call because

you were busy with 18 other things is usually what happens why don't you do it and that's the stuff that makes me mad do you have like a particular example oh man i've got i'll go through my top four now I'm just joke. Power rankings. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll do the short ones and then I'll give you the long one. So I was going to do a piece on school desegregation around the country. And I went to like Seattle.

I was suburban Seattle and all this stuff. And it was going to show about how schools were figuring out ways to cut out their black and brown and other students with disabilities, whatever. And they were forming their own school districts. And it was a thing that was happening all around the country. And they would try to figure out ways to limit attendance. Another one was on a football player from Steubenville High School. Do you remember when Stubinville, Ohio was in the news?

I do, indeed. And he went on and played at Youngstown State. When I was on ESPN, and I was, man, I spent a whole month on that story. It was long. It didn't run. I only wanted, man, if I started talking about why that did not happen, whew, Jesus. And then the other one was when I went to Ferguson in 2015,

in 2014 and 2015 and I spent a lot of time there and one day I was looking for stuff in Ferguson and this guy went to his office and he said hey man we talked for an hour and I was like you know it's basketball season I'm looking for something to do can I go to a local basketball game

who's best basketball player in town? He's like man there's this guy that's going to be the best ever out of St. Louis. I'm like damn for real all right well shit let me go see who it is it was Jason Taylor and so and so I wanted to write a feature about him and so I

spent time with him. I interviewed his mom, his dad Larry Hughes, who's his godfather. I did all this stuff, was going to get it, never ran. So, that one. Man, that's a good list, by the way. I told you, yeah, man. I have I have some ones that I'm just sitting on stewing

about, even today, man. Can we still do the school desegregation one? Can we get that? Can we re-up that? In some form or another? It took me so much traveling, man. I feel, I wasted so much of BuzzFeed's money. but I got to go to Seattle. If you had to waste just one outlots money,

you know, you might as well be them. There was a cat video that they used to make up for it. That's what I was going to say. I spent two weeks in Dothan, Alabama. Wow. Two weeks. In Alabama.

Doth in Alabama. Well, I think it's time to say goodbye for 20, 25. Yeah, man. Man, this has been such a fun year. This has been the first full year that I've gotten to do this with you, which has been such a treat for me. Yeah, man. Like wise brown

So much fun So I got to We did we did We've done a lot of stuff With this podcast We got to be friends You know We started this year

At Atlanta Remember we went to the Championship game And then I was out there I got recognized at a barbecue Restaurant We got recognized By voice

By voice That was weird Thank God We weren't on the video Tierraed Oh my God And yet thank God We weren't saying anything

Crazy or offensive You know what I mean A secretive or whatever And then yeah I got to have a burrito with you in L.A. So yeah, man, it's been good. It's been good.

Put some non-food interactions in between. Yeah, maybe we'll go on a walk me one time or something. Oh, man. Well, I mean this and seriously, this has been the best year of the press box so far. I just appreciate you so much. I appreciate David so much. I appreciate Bruce Baldwin and everyone else who was the producer of this podcast,

the cast of thousands in 2020. B-dub, Kyle, Bobby. Bobby. And then Bruce. And then Bruce, man. We had some fill-ins here and there. We have four producers of this podcast in 2025.

And we love you all. Yeah, we do. But Bruce, don't go anywhere, man. We need you to stay. Absolutely. And it was just such a fun year. I mean, again, I'm always, you know, I've always proprietary and love the podcast so much. But you just show me another pod, Joel.

You just show me one other pod that had Zahar Rahim and Chris Berman on it this year. Yeah, that's that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, pretty interesting guest list right that's a pretty interesting guest list right a jelani cobb and bob cost is you show me another podcast that he's daves man we had rice davis davis on here car carcher week yeah kirk herb street and david remnick you show me the podcast that had those two people on it this year that's right such a fun year with guests we got so much planned for 2026 right off the bat i believe we have a guest for the first week at 2026 when we're coming back which is so much fun when i thank all the listeners out there for hanging with us in

2026. However, you're spending the holidays, you're spending with family. If you're spinning with friends, if you're spending it all by your own self, know that your press box friends, Brian, Joel, and David, are thinking about you. Thank you so much. We'll see you next year. Now that more lukewarm takes about the media. See you then, Joel. I look forward to it, guys.