The Press Box - The Legend of Lee Corso, the Man Who Created "GameDay," with ESPN's Kirk Herbstreit

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

Hello, media consumers! Ahead of Lee Corso's final appearance on College Gameday, Bryan and Joel briefly talk about the history of College Gameday and what has made Corso such a special figure for almost 40 years. Then, Bryan is joined by Kirk Herbstreit to talk about how he got on College Gameday, what his relationship with Corso has been like over the years, and so much more (9:44). Later, Bryan and Joel wrap up with some more thoughts on what Herbstreit said, and they talk about how Gameday became the show we know it as today. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and Joel AndersonGuest: Kirk HerbstreitProducers: Isaiah Blakely and Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did you know that scientific studies have found most people lie once every 10 minutes? In my new podcast, Truthless, I'm talking to people about the lies, they tell, from faking illnesses in high-pressure moments to making up stories on national TV. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Brian Phillips. Listen to Truthless on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Any of consumers, welcome to Pressbox. You got Brian Curtis and Joel Anderson and producer Isaiah Blakely, who's sitting in for Kyle.

Today's pod is a special episode, Joel, because on Saturday, something's happening that's not just a big TV story or college football story. It's just a big story, period. Lee Corso is going to put on the headgear one last time. Oh, man. That's kind of a bummer.

At age 90, he is making his final appearance on ESPN's pregame show, college game day. We're going to bring on Kirk Herb Street in just one second to talk about Corso. But let's start here because I feel a lot of people who listen to this pod may be sports fans, but not necessarily college football fans. Yeah, sure. And may not know how game day is different. than your average pregame show. So what would you say the magic of Lee Corso is?

He's the biggest, most joyful booster of the game. And the reason that that makes him unique is that most of the people who make a living, so I'll back up for a second. Lee Corso was a former college football coach, right? And maybe you, when you think of a college football coach now, if you're not a college football fan, you might think of Nick Saban or Ryan Day, somebody that it seems to be fundamentally joyless or that they're, you know, going, they're perpetually living through a grind. The thing about Lee Corso is that he still managed to retain like that wide-eyed enthusiasm for the game. And he, so, and I read this from your oral history on Game Day from 2020. where Tim Brando, who was the very first host of College Gang Day and was moved out after a couple years, he, Lee Corso told him, he said, hey, look, I'm going to be the Dick Vital of college football.

I don't know if people, again, Dick Vital, you baby, a diaper dandy, you know, he's like, you know, a guy the biggest booster for college basketball, an ESPN analyst, a former coach. And that's exactly what Lee Corso managed to pull off, which I mean, to say it was sort of audacious, but to do it is even more incredible. I'll give you another comp that former ESPN president John Skipper once gave me. Okay. Lee Corso is the Mel Brooks of college football. That's a really interesting one, man, yeah. Because there is a Dick Vital element to him. There's a wackiness.

Yeah. But what's different about Corso is I feel there's a wonderful naughtiness. somewhere in those eyes, in that soul. I mean, there's no way that Dick Vital has a moment like Corso did when they were at the University of Houston several years back, where he says, F it on television, because the bit isn't working out the way he wants it to. Yeah. Well, it's a funny thing, too, just about, I mean, just because we're going to talk about

that whole crew. I watched that clip this morning, and there's Carl Lewis that's sitting on the panel with them, and so it's Chris Fowler and Carl Lewis because they're at the university. of Houston, SMU game. And so anyway, they're trying to make the most out of a game that is not very great. They're making chicken salad out of chicken shit. And, you know, Lee Corso's bits are failing, as you say. And so Chris Fowler looks over at Carl Lewis and says, you brought the Cougar out of Corso.

And I was like, what a slick, great line. Like, turn something that could have been really awkward or something where they could have been really embarrassed and it was almost endearing. That's the thing. He would have these moments where, something would go wrong or he'd be weirdly off key with a guest or a mascot. And that would turn into TV gold. Yeah.

Because game day, though very, very scripted in certain ways, had moments where it seemed as unscripted as anything on ESPN could possibly be. Oh, yeah. And Corso was often that element who was that element of the show that was that you just, could not predict what he was going to say you know and it's interesting because they they talked about and i've read some stories about his career and everything i mean he says and i think he even says it in your oral history that you did on him i never had a good job you know he was the head coach at louisville in indiana and he was the head coach of louisville and louisville was not louisville

in football and it was not indiana and when indiana was not indiana right and he had to do things Like, this is before, you know, the big TV deals or before college football became sort of the national sensation it is, probably our second biggest sport in this country. So he had to do things to get people to pay attention, like pulling out a coffin on his coaches show and things like that. Like he had developed. He was working, I guess, I don't, I assume white people eat Chitlin's, but he was working the Chitlin circuit, you know, and, you know, for the long time before he got his opportunity to do the debut on a big stage. Some important dates in Lee Corsos career. Joel, he got to Game Day in 1987. Man.

He has been putting on a mascot head at the end of Game Day for nearly 30 years. Man. And I always thought that was brilliant, not just because it was goofy and it was something you wanted to see, but because it happened right at the end of the show. Right. So you were obliged to watch all three hours of Game Day for the money shot. Absolutely. Yeah, it was a really smart thing for them to do. They'd be like, all right, well, I got to, you know, I at least got to check back in or I got to stick with it until I get to this fun thing, you know? And we say smart like it was engineered that way. It just happened because Lee Corso thought it would look weird and goofy and that he could do his Queen Elizabeth Wave with the mascot head on. And it worked.

In 1996 is when Corsos joined on game day by former Ohio State quarterback Kirk Herbstree. Now, Herbie was very young. He's 26 years old when he gets that job. Corso is 60 years old. And you know I always talk about how TV shows and podcasts are about relationships. That if people are going to come back week after week, they can't just be seeking information. They have to be seeking some emotional component. So here is a father-son.

type of relationship between Kirby and Corso. And it's one Joel that spans 30 years of television. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird because, you know, I hadn't really even thought about it in quite that way until we started doing the show together and we started talking about it. And I was like, yeah, you know, I guess that is sort of an element. Like they, you can clearly see that they adore each other. And people got invested in that.

And obviously, it changed so much once lived. or Coach Corso had that stroke, right? And so then all of a sudden, like you said, they had the father-son thing. But then it really is a father-son thing when your elder gets sick or somebody you love that's older in your family gets sick or has some health issue,

and then you are thrust in sort of like a caretaking role. And that's kind of like what Herbie transitioned into. You find yourself becoming the parent. Yeah. And they didn't talk about that on TV. They didn't make a big deal out of it. it wasn't modeling. Yeah.

But you'd be sitting there watching a college football pregame show on a Saturday morning, and it would just be happening. Yeah. Right in front of you. Yeah. And I think for Herbie, as he's become sort of a more controversial figure on college football, right? Like people, I mean, anybody on TV now, in particular college football,

everybody's going to end up hating you, right? Like, that's just how that kind of works. And nothing has humanized. him more than the care and gentleness with what he treats Coach Corso, like nothing. And I don't, again, I'm not saying he, I'm not saying that he's doing it for that reason. It's clear that it's genuine, that they actually have a real affection and real relationship here. And so, yeah, like, you kind of have gotten invested. When you said, this is going to be Coach Corsos' last show, I went, oh, right?

And because it's just, because that's, that's what's been projected through the screen at us for, like, the last decade or so now. When I talked to Herb Street last week, I asked him, what was it like to be part of a relationship that changed before our eyes on television? Here's Herbie. All right, Kirk. When did you first meet Lee Corso? I first met him in person in my audition in the spring of 1996 on the ESPN campus. You're 26 years old. You'd been at ESPN for a year doing some odd things.

And here you are in an audition with Chris Fowler and Corso. What was that audition like? Terrifying. I was told by Mo Davenport that it would be good for my career just to go through the audition experience, but you're probably not going to get the job. And I was very appreciative just to, like you said, I mean, I worked on ESPN2, which was a brand new station back in the fall of 95. as a sideline reporter.

I called one game at the end of the year because I begged if there was an extra game, let me call game. I actually called the Minnesota-Wisconsin game at the Metro Dome, which was a sold-out stadium and really cool experience to call with Gary Thorne. And then I started to do arena football.

That next spring, they asked me to be an analyst just to see if I could call games. Worked with Todd Christensen and Mike Golick. and Kurt Warner, ironically enough, was the team we followed the Iowa Barnstormers around a lot because we had no idea Kurt Warner would become a Hall of Fame quarterback, but he was winning a lot of games. And so we were in Des Moines, Iowa quite a bit.

And so I did that. In the middle of that season, I got the call to go in for an audition with Corso and Fowler in person because Craig James had left to go to CBS. And so there's a big hole. on their lineup and they brought in a few people and and i met him and i was so scared and so inexperienced and i was such a massive fan of college football and of that show and i couldn't believe i was sitting there meeting chris and and coach and um you know i i think i was anxious i was

incredibly prepared because they gave us a little bit of time to prepare some things and we just kind of did a segment. You know, we did a pretend segment on the 95 season, talked about some teams, wanted to see if I could address the camera on a single, wanted to see what I looked like on a two shot or on a jib, just kind of BSing with him. And I didn't think I would ever get the job, but I just remember him trying to just make me feel like I was part of it and I was, you know, accepted and that I could do it, you know, just relax, have fun, and just really appreciated him, kind of being a coach and just trying to make me feel like I, I was, I deserved to be there, which was hard for me to get my own mind to think that I deserve to be there at that stage

of my career. Viewers know him, of course, for the mascot head and all the scenery chewing on game day, that you guys would do together over the last 30 years. What didn't Lee Corso figure out about television, do you think? The entertainment aspect of it, I thought I was hired to be an analyst. So I came in, notes stacked this high, you know, prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare, football, football, X-O, X-O, X-O, X-O, and I'm sitting next to a guy who would do some of that. But he was just so funny. He was just so naturally engaging and didn't take the job or himself too serious. And I just, through osmosis, no one ever told me to learn from him, but they didn't really tell me much of anything. I just sat next to him. And I think over time, I realized I could never be

Lee Corso, but I can learn how he does TV. And what I think we all learned, our entire show, what he really built was the entertainment aspect of television and the emotional you know, openly crying on the show after watching a feature and just being real. You know, I think that's what I learned is just, I think we all try to be authentic and try to be ourselves. And I think what he learned about TV was just not to take himself too serious. We're in the entertainment business, sweetheart, and college football is our vehicle. And then we're lucky enough to do a show around a very, very passionate sport in college football that's subjective and argumentative.

And I think you throw our show and him in the middle of that. And it's like a perfect storm. You compared him one time when we were talking to a stand-up comic. Can you explain that? Well, I just think when he was in his prime, the crowd was right in the palm of his hand. he just knew you know he just knew how to take them wherever he wanted to take them and it was something that came again i think as time went on remember we started as only an hour and then we went to two hours and we went to three hours that's at such a different show but i just think he just

really knew how to like if i watch kevin hart or shane gillis or somebody that stands up in front of an audience. And I've done a lot of speeches with Lee. And he just, he knows how to get, you watch people's faces when he's performing and they're just, they're just smiling on their edge of their seat. And he'll take him over here and they'll follow him there. And then he'll take him because he's such a storyteller. He'll take him over here. And they're just, and then there's the punchline. Oh, you know, he's just a life of a party. You know, like if we all went to a cocktail party. He's in the middle of the cocktail party and there's 20 people around him and they're all laughing and no way what no, you know, just like he's just the life, he brings that

kind of energy to pretty much any room he goes into. There's elements of a stand-up comic, and I know you're a wrestling fan. There's also elements of a wrestling heel. I can make you so mad at the drop of a hat. for sure what was that guy's name that used to have the megaphone jimmy the heart i think jimmy heart yeah the mouth of the south he he was like he was that guy like he was the guy that would try to uh poke you and then find a way to get you to love him by the end of the show um again when it's different now these last eight or ten years he's just been a different kind of guy on air. But when I started with him in 96, it was,

forget about that. You know, it was just, it was just aggressive in your face. And he did it with a smile on his face. It was like, he would pick the wrong team to lose and he would do it emphatically like he just knew. And then that was when we'd have game day and we would do rap shows all day and all night. So our set stayed there. And the people would come to our set, he picked the wrong team and they would especially if it was the visiting team he picked the when the home team there'd be thousands of people out there and they would just say say you're sorry say you're sorry you know to him and i was like you know i'd look at him like are you going to say you're sorry and then he was like don't ever turn around don't ever turn around don't give him the satisfaction

And I was just like, okay, you know, like, so all they're looking at is the back of our heads. You know, we would do these wrap-up shows. And then at the end, when we were done, he had to get out of his seat. And then he would look at them and he would kind of like bow down to him and say, congratulations, you know. And then they would all cheer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like, then they'd want to get his autograph. They'd want to take a picture with him.

And it was all, they just all wanted him to love his team. And so it was a love, kind of a love-hate relationship, but at the end, they always ended up loving it. Let me ask you about a few stories. Chris the Bear Felica, your former researcher at Picks guy. How did Lee Corso give him his nickname? Well, the bear and I started the same year in 1996, and he was a guy that coach became very fond of. We all did. He just had that kind of personality.

And I think we were maybe in Phoenix. I think we were in Tempe and we were doing a show late in the year. And Felica and I, we were always together grabbing something to eat and whatever. And we were sitting down eating maybe at the hotel. And he walked by, always walking fast. You know, he just walks by in his jeans and like a leather bomber coat, sneakers, Nike sneakers, walks by, sees us. He's like, look at you guys.

You're eating again. And he goes, Felika. That's all you do. He's like, you're like a bear. You eat, you shit, you take a nap, and then you do it all over again. He's like, you're like a bear. And just the way he said it real, just that Italian accent and cocky, big smile on his face. And I just started calling him the bear.

From that moment on, I just, whenever I would call him, and I give nicknames to everybody behind the scenes. There's a guy named Boone. There's a guy named Beethoven. There's a guy named Fudd. for Elmer Fudd. So I give a lot of nicknames to people. And I just started calling him.

After Lee said that, I just started referring to him as bear. And it just, everybody, even bosses, started calling him bear. And I was just in my head over the years. And that was over time. In my head, I was just like, if they only knew how that nickname came about,

and now a lot of people know. But yeah, that's how it started. But I think he just said it in passing. And then I just kind of grabbed it and just started calling him the bear. Here's another one. 2000 season opener, Georgia Tech at Virginia Tech. These rental car got hit by lightning. Yeah, that happened.

It was a massive storm. Lightning stormed the delay in the game because of the lightning. And it was this loud, boom. And we thought it just hit the stadium or maybe hit, you know, when lightning strikes, It makes that boom. You don't know where it hit or what it hit. But it sounded like, you know, it hit close. And then I don't remember if it was late that night or the next morning.

You know, when the crowd finally left, I think they realized that the lightning hit Corso's car. I mean, I don't know how many tens of thousands of cars that were parked outside of that stadium. And lo and behold, Lee Corso's car gets hit. And I think for the rest of his career, at least for the next few years, he's like, I don't know what a hokey is, but God is one of them. Go hokey's, you know, like he rode that out for a while. But yeah, that was funny that hit his car. I think if there's a Lee Corso highlight reel, it must include Houston SMU in 2011.

He's trying to do the mascot head. Carl Lewis is somehow on the set with you guys. What was your vantage point of what happened next? Yeah, so Lee, going back to how he plays the crowd, we were at Houston in a game where there really wasn't a marquee game that weekend. So it was one of those games, game days, where we pay tribute to a team and a program that's maybe off the beaten path. Houston was a heavy favorite over SMU who was not very good that year.

And it was really more of what Kevin Sumlin and the Cougars were doing. We get to the pick segment. Carl Lewis is our celebrity picker. He's from Houston, obviously a great Olympic gold medal champion. And we're going through all the picks. We get to Houston. It's like Carl picks Houston. I pick Houston.

I'm thinking they're like a 30-point favorite. Lee trying to connect the dots with Carl Lewis. SMU's colors are red, white, and blue. So usually when he does something to antagonize, the home crowd, he gets them to boo. So he pulls out the cheerleader megaphone and he's like, how can you guys, how can you do that? Oh, red, white, and blue, you know, USA, USA. And it's like, usually the crowd, if they understand what he's doing, boo, and he's got him right where he wants. Well, no one reacted. Like, everyone was like, red, white and blue, like, USA, like, where's he

going with this? I think he sensed that it wasn't going in the the direction that he thought it was going to go. So he just, you know, he just said, oh, F it. And he threw the thing. And then he picked us, or he picked Houston. And of course, my reaction, I think I pushed myself away from the desk, threw my pen in the air. Fowler was just like, oh, my gosh. Carl Lewis is like, oh, Carl looked at me. He's like, good thing. We're on delay. And I'm like, no, no, we're not. You know, and then I opened the thing. his mouth and I'm looking in there like, you said F. And he's like, so what?

You know, and I'm just like, oh, man, that, that was an all-timer. Because, you know, he's done a lot of stuff on the air where he didn't curse. But he's, you know, he's a coach. Like the whole idea of a talkback button, you know, there's a talk back button when you hit it and you talk to the truck. Leo just talked to the truck without hitting the button. You know, he'll, when someone else is talking, he'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he'll be like, yeah, yeah, he'll be, yeah, he, he, he, he never really understood, you know, you got to hit the button to talk. So, like, his concept of, like, what people hear and don't hear, he just never really grasped that.

And so I don't know. I think he just got frustrated and threw it down. But that definitely wasn't not the first time that he just talked randomly. But it was the first time he dropped the F-bomb, that's for sure. He invented the whole idea of putting on the mascot head in October 1996, your first year on game date in Columbus, where you're going to wind up on August 30th. What did you make of that idea when you first heard it? Well, I went to Ohio State.

Obviously, he asked my wife, my girlfriend at the time, at the fiancé, because she cheered there if she would help him get to headgear. And Ali tried a couple times to no avail. The cheerleading coach said no. I just thought, I think the athletic director got involved and got the green light to do it. But I just thought, you know, a one and done kind of thing. I just thought, oh, that's silly. It looks silly.

He's got a tie on. He does the Queen Elizabeth, what he calls it, the Queen Elizabeth. wave and he puts this Brutus head on and I just thought because before that the few shows that I traveled with him he just found a kind of a hat that was of the team that he was going to pick and had the stage manager go get that hat and so when he put that on I just thought it because I knew Ohio State so well I just looked over at it like that's hilarious looking that he's got a a shirt and tie and a suit on and he's got to brute his head on. I thought that was funny. And then I thought that was it. And we did, you know, and I don't know. That's the real story you

should do. Brian is like, who was the second mascot head? And was it the next, very next time we were on the road? Or was it a few more on the road until he, like that's the story I've never heard because I can't remember 30 years ago. What, when was the second headgear? Because we didn't on the road back then every week. So I'm just curious if anybody could ever find that out. When did it become a weekly thing? I had no idea what that answer is. We know him as the clown prince of college football. But am I right that in his early years, especially on game day, he was a guy who was willing to crush other coaches to be very, very critical on the air? He was. One that stands out to me was Wisconsin Northwestern. We were in studio my first year on the show. We were doing a rap

segment and we were waiting for it. Both teams were ranked, I believe. Both were very good. Gary Barnett and Barry Alvarez and Wisconsin had the game won. Big win for him. And instead of taking the knee, they handed the ball off and fumbled. And Northwestern recovered and eventually went down, won the game. And Corso went both. holistic on Barry Alvarez saying he should he should apologize like he was totally off script totally just that is an embarrassment he lost this game he needs to go into that locker room and apologize to his team because this is on him he lost the game and I'm just like man this you're making this sound really personal like you're you know instead of just saying oh I don't know

you know might want to rethink that he just he just said you blew it it's your fault you better apologize to your team because you lost the game and then we saw barry alvarez at the national football foundation dinner um i call him al capone uh in a in a very loving way to his face like i call him capone pinky ring and he's got a we came off the elevator lee and i and capone is walking with an entourage of people in a tux and just looked at we just happened to across past and and he looked at Lee like I need to talk to you like he gave him that look and Lee said hey how are you good to see you and we just kind of kept moving along and I was like coach I said I think he he looked upset he was ah don't worry about it that's fine it's fine

you know we just kind of kept going but I just I just remember he did not care he didn't you know a lot of times I have relationships with these guys, coaches, the players I have for 30 years. He doesn't want or he intentionally does not want those relationships. He doesn't talk to these guys because he doesn't want to feel conflicted on what he has to say. So he keeps an arm's length from all of them. Now, if he sees him in an event like that, hey, how are you? But he doesn't want to text with him. He doesn't want to have an ongoing relationship with him. And it's because of that. He wants to just say whatever it is he sees, and he doesn't want to feel like, oh, that's my buddy. I better not say that.

And so that's why all those years, he had no problem just letting it rip when it came to coaches. Let's talk about the last 15 years. How did you find out Corso had had a stroke in 2009? Lee Fitting called me and told me. He was very, very close with Coach, still is. I called coach to talk to him. And he told me very openly, because if you go by what you see in movies,

I don't know what happens when you have a stroke. And he told me, you could tell his speech was clearly impacted by the stroke, but he told me exactly what happened and how it happened. And he said he went out to get the paper, bent down to get the newspaper, felt something.

a little bit, didn't feel right, didn't think much about it, kind of walked back into the house, sat down, started to read the paper. His wife Betsy asked him if he wanted some orange juice, and then he started to talk. And he's like, uh, and the way he describes it, uh, you know, I couldn't get any words out. And so we just talked about that. And we never really, he got, he was determined to get on the air. He had a speech therapist. And I mean, somehow he had the courage and a work ethic to get himself in position to be able to go on the show. But it definitely was a clear change from before that to after that. He was always the coach and I was the quarterback. He was always the mentor. I was the pupil. I always looked at him,

not just on air, off air. And then without really ever talking about it, I just think things changed. For all of us, for Chris, for me, for the whole show, it just became a different, like I never said, hey, I'm going to try to help you when I can. We never talked ever about it. I just, it just kind of, kind of organically, our relationship just kind of changed, I think, right before people's eyes. Yeah, and what struck me about it was, you know, we all have a version of that relationship in our lives. You know, our parents, when we're young, have their arms around us. And then all of a sudden, we have our arms around them because they're getting a little older. And we have to help them out a little bit in the same way they did us.

How did you want to help him out on the air? Well, because I sit next to him, on the closest one to him. And because we're on two shots a lot, he and I had a lot of interaction. And so I just thought I just was being a friend, really. I was just like, how can I subtly, it could just be my hand touching his wrist. It could be, oh, like if he's trying to say something, it could be like me finishing a thought for him. And then him being able to kind of have a second or two to kind of catch his word. and then he's off and running again.

It was just more, you just really know, like I said, we didn't talk about it. It wasn't like, I just felt it. I just felt whatever I did. I just, I didn't even know I was doing it.

You know, I, until people started to say stuff to me, I didn't really even know I was doing anything. I just, I was just kind of so, and I always was really intent to what anybody on the set is saying,

but I would just be sitting there listening to him, talk, and if I felt like, he needed a little, like a little something. I would just kind of, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, just kind of like just kind of hop in just for a second and hope that nobody noticed. It was really my goal.

My goal was to try to make it look like I was helping without it look like I was helping. That was always my goal. You grew up the son of a football coach. Yeah. He worked with a football coach on the air. What would you say your relationship with Corso is like? Where did it get to? Another father figure in my life.

And it started because of not on the air, but it started because I became a husband and a father. And I had premature kids that were born two pounds each. And I was terrified. And of course, I would talk to my parents about it, but he would ask me, you know, how things going, how the kids, you know, and I would tell him. And sometimes you tell people and they're like, oh, okay, good, good, you know, it's like, you know. And he would listen. He would like really listen and really be thoughtful with what he would say back to me. And then as they grew up, they're three and four and five.

And you had questions as a first time dad. I just kept finding he was the one guy that wasn't going to tell me what I wanted to hear. He was almost became like a therapist in a way or like I said, like another parent. And he just time after time, he became a person that listened. And I just, I really appreciated that he listened. and to what I had concerns about in my life. If I had a contract that was up and I didn't really know what to do and I, you know, I had an agent that was negotiating.

I would go to him and he knew the business. Who else know you talk to than this guy? He's been in the business. He understands it. So everything from personal stuff in my life, my contract, I just, he just became a guy that I talked to. And that was way back. And when that started to happen, it just, our relationship changed behind the scenes.

And I think it carried over on the air, you know. So got to a point, known him now for 30 years. And I just look at him as a great friend that if I have, you know, if I'm going to fork in the road in life, he's one of the first people I call to this day just to get his advice and get his feedback. And so I would just describe him as a dear friend and really like, like I say, almost like a second father to me. Do you remember a particular piece of Lee Corsoe fatherhood advice? Yeah, I remember wanting to play with my kids and them wanting to play Legos and me hoping that they love sports because sports had such a big impact on my life. and I told him,

I gave him a bunch of different examples and I was clearly very concerned. Like let's say they wanted to draw or they wanted to play with Legos all the time or whatever it might be when they were like three or four or five. And me just being a dopey first time dad, I had no idea what I was doing.

And he said, hey, hey, hey, let him do what they want to do. Get down on the ground and play Legos with them. you know like just super simple stuff like that but just made me feel like it's okay you know it's okay that they want to play legoes that doesn't mean that they're not going to want to play sports um do what they want to do he's like you know what i do i pick up my grandkids and he goes you know what they like to do when when grandpa shows up they want to go get ice cream so guess what i do i go take them to get ice cream and I sit there and listen to them, tell me about their stories.

And I just sit there and listen. He goes, and that was a fun day. That was a fun day. And I take them back home to their mom and we had a great time. And he just, just to hear that it's going to be okay, I'm a big plug into people that have been there before me kind of guy. I just think there's so much wisdom and value in talking to these people that have experience. It doesn't mean their experience was exactly like mine, but it just means, man,

why wouldn't we plug into a person that's been in the industry this many years? Why wouldn't I ask him what his experience is? And I just love to love to do that with him and just love, I always call him Yoda or like Don Corleone, like you pour your heart out for 20 minutes about this and that and I don't know what I'm going to, man. And he just, it's like if Don Corleone's sitting at the desk, He just pet the cat. He just kind of listens. And then he gives you like two sentences. And you're like, thank you.

Thank you, Don Corleone. Thank you so much. You know, like, why didn't I think of that? You know, like, or Yoda, you know. That's who he is. Because that's, you sit there and you're all flustered and just, I don't know what I'm. And he's just like, here's what you do. And he just gives you a thought.

And that's what I do. And I've done that since the late 90s. Last one for you, Kirk. Over the years, when anyone asked about the possibility of Lee Corso retiring from game day, the answer from everyone was, hey, he's here as long as he wants to be here. August 30th, his retirement date is finally here. What are you going to feel on the air that day? I've thought a lot about it.

I think it's going to be like a typical game day when I say that there's a lot of joy, there's a lot of laughing, and there's going to be some emotion. How can they're not be? You know, I think that's one of the kind of the secret sauce to game day is if you watch it, you're going to get emotional, you're going to laugh, you're going to get a little football. And I think with coach for me personally, I'm going to really take it all in and really enjoy. I'm going to be, I'm always dialed into him, but I'm going to really just just be super alert to the moment and the time that we have with him on that show. And especially that final pick, you know, when he goes out there and he does his last head

gear, it's going to be hard for all of us. It's going to be hard. I'm going to stay there. I hope he stays there too. When the lights go off in that last game day, my hope is to stand on that sideline and watch Ohio State, Texas for a half before I have to fly to LSU at Clemson. And then there's going to be that time where I'm going to have to give him a hope. hug and and that that'll be the final uh goodbye for me in this capacity of him being on the show

that won't be when the show goes off it'll be when i have to leave i have to go to clemson and um i i don't know what that's going to be like i think it's going to be hard but i'm going to i'm going to try to enjoy the moment you know and just and just have it have it as a great memory um And I think what helps is he's at peace. I'm sure you've talked with him. I feel like he's at peace with this situation. You know, it has to come for all of us at some point, you know. And I'm just happy to think that he's okay with it.

Makes me feel more okay that he's okay. The end of the Lee Corso era on Game Day, August 30th, Columbus, Ohio. Kirk, thanks for coming on the press box. You got it, man. It's Joel. That's me. and Brian were back. That was a really good interview.

And I'm glad that you were able to get him. And yeah, man, again, before we went into that interview, we talked about how he had been humanized. Like, Herbie had been humanized by this relationship that he had with coaching. And so listening to him talk about him. Like, he just said he was a guy that listened to me, right? Like, you know, I would tell people about my struggles with fatherhood or these ideas I had.

And he was a guy that would not only listen, but he also sometimes would tell me things that I didn't want to hear, right? He called him Don Colioni. Like, you know, he just needed to wait, listen, you know, very passively and then, you know, drop some jewels on him. And yeah, that was sort of beautiful, man,

you know, that he was, that he's willing to talk about that relationship. Because I could also imagine a way of being like, you know, that's a very private thing. I don't want to get into it. But I'm glad that they're sharing that with us, you know. It's also interesting to hear about some of the shading of Lee Corso because we now know him for the mascot hit. Yep.

But as Herbie points out, he was happy to blow up other college football coaches when he needed to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the Barry Alvarez story, right? That he talks about, like, you know, Barry Alvarez goes forward on, I guess he goes forward on a fourth down or something like that at a time in a game when the Wisconsin basically has a game locked up. they turn it over on downs. The other team goes back and scores and wins. I think it was me,

said Wisconsin versus Northwestern or something. And then, like, you know, Coach Corso is like adamant. Like Alvarez needs to go apologize to these guys, right? You guys heard, if you listen to the interview, you just heard it. Anyway, and that the fact that like Barry Alvarez runs into Coach Corso later, and he's just like, what's up? You know what I'm saying? Like, he's just like, all right, you know, whatever.

But this is what I thought, right? So maybe everybody is not. in a position to do this but like herbie said that coach corso doesn't want those relationships he doesn't talk to these guys he keeps them at arms length well man do why wouldn't more people kind of want to do that if they could right so that they could be more free with their criticism it's hard yeah it's really hard i mean you can imagine nick sabin if he's going to doing that on game day he's blowing up some of his disciples yeah that's right like kirby smart like steve sarkeesian he's not going to do that to the extent Lee Corso did.

Right. It's just not possible. You know there's also this kind of fraternity of coaches, even when you're an ex-coach. Right. Absolutely. You can talk about other coaches on the air, but you know the strain they're under. You know how hard their job is. You're not going to cut their legs off.

Lee Corso was happy to do that. Right. And I think in the early permutations of the show, we kind of forget about this now, he was kind of set up to argue with his co-host who pre-herby was Craig James. Right. Who was even more of a controversial figure, right? Like a much less likable person, you know, just to be frank about it, right? It was a debate show.

Yeah. It really was. And again, like, I think Lee Corso could do that just as easily as he could do the mascot. Absolutely. But I think people have kind of forgotten that, though, right? because it happened so long ago and he's become more of a cuddly guy. Like, it's not like that's, I mean, he will criticize people, but it doesn't hit quite in the same way as it did 30 years ago. No.

And it's funny because I always get the vibe from him. And this is mostly by reading about him rather than talking to him. But I got the vibe that he was happy to be the clown prince of college football, but he didn't like being dismissed as a clown. There was a quote from him one time that I found the Orlando Sentinel. And he said, one of the fallacies in our society is that it associates intensity with strength and humor with weakness. Humorists aren't as respected as a serious editorial writer. What a artful, thoughtful thing to say, right? Like, I mean, also it really is reminiscent of a different age of coaches when they were like,

as much teachers as they were guys that coach football. And I wonder, and you ride with me on this one, because, Because he coached at schools, like, it's not like he can rest on the idea that he was some great coach, right? Like, he may have been a great coach, but he doesn't have the record to back it up. And more than often than not now, you would, who would be the Lee Corso that would get hired now? It'd be like, who's William Chishol? Yeah, right. Well, yeah.

I was thinking to somebody who's not successful, right? Yeah, I would think Lane would have at least the comedy chops or at least understand the assignment in the way Lee Corso does. That's right. Yeah, I mean, I just feel like people are probably a lot less likely to take that criticism or they'd be more inclined to poke it. Like, well, what does Lee Corso know about coaching football? He went 41 and 58, you know? But he's far enough removed from it. And he's also so good-natured that I think people kind of let it go. But I don't think we're not going to get another Lee Corso. I don't think, at least for a long time, in part because of that culture now that, like, you got to get on the serious winner guy, right? Yeah, I just don't know that there's like a cultural space either within college football or even within television to be that guy anymore.

Yeah, they want the most recent guy who doesn't have a job who was known as a winner. There's a coach not, right? I mean, Urban Meyer. Oh, man. I mean, here's somebody right who has not been totally shy about blowing other people up. But obviously there's just different vibes. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's like you would. think like urban

Meyer is not a guy that you would not normally want to put forward as one of your public faces, but because he's a winner guy and people take that very seriously though, he gets to be that dude. But yeah, like, it's not like you're going to get, well, I guess, you know, Herm Edwards was out there for a little bit, I guess.

Yeah, yeah. Herm had a lovability about him, but he also had some sharp edges too. He did, he did. When we think about college game day, I think there are three people who really, created the show as we know it. Okay.

Number one is Chris Fowler. Yeah. Who Joel became host of the show in 1990. We were really throwing some dates out here today. He's 28 years old. That was the thing that I thought that was also shocking, too. I was like, they gave that job to a 28-year-old, which, I mean, which as he points out, that's more a reflection of what the show was at the time than anything.

But even still. Yeah, right, right. And it's funny because Fowler comes in there. And if you hear Chris Fowler calling games now, and he's the number one play-by-play announcer for ESPN college football, you'll know this. He just had this insistence that every segment was going to be good. We were not doing blow-off pre-game. Let's make jokes that aren't funny, but everybody starts laughing stuff. Everything had to be good.

Everybody had to be locked in. If we're talking about 100 college football teams, we need to know something about all of those teams. And I, Chris Fowler, need to know about all of those teams. Herbie told me this great story where he was like, Herbie would, you know, be kind of like, you know, kind of doing B minus C plus takery on a segment, not really saying anything, being laying up a little bit. And Fowler, he said, would almost be uncomfortable or rude to him on the air.

Just to provoke a reaction so that Herbie would, you know, stand up and be like, I'll show you, I'll give you a good segment. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, he was very crisp in that way. And, you know, it's reminiscent, because I was thinking about this, because we were talking about the Cowboys documentary, kind of reminiscent of Bob Costas, because we've kind of gotten into the point with, like, the host or the guy that's the point that didn't really share

their opinions as much anymore. But it was like, yeah, when you all were talking about that and I was reading, you know, your work about Game Day, I was like, yeah, you know, like Chris really did, your Chris Fowler really did, you know, kind of mix it up a little bit in there. He does and still does when he's calling games. So Fowler's number one, Herbie's number two. Yeah. Here's your dream boat, former quarterback, who somehow knew everything about college football,

who seemed to be watching every game, unlike just about any analyst on TV. Yeah. And who had that mastery of college football that Fowler demanded. It's, to Herbie's credit, that everybody wants him to do games now. He does NFL games now, too, right? Like that's how good he was at his job here that everybody looked at him and said, man, maybe we could have him do other stuff and do a lot of other stuff. The third leg of the game day's duel is, of course, Corso. Yeah.

And his insight to me is he understood that the show really wasn't about college football. Yeah. You talk to anybody who works at Game Day, to Herbie, to Fowler, to Reese Davis, to Desmond Howard, they will repeat the Lee Corso mantra, which is, We're in the entertainment business, and college football is our vehicle. It's something that I think everybody that has to do a forward-facing job needs to think about. Have you ever ever been on a show or had somebody on a show and they don't bring any energy or something like that? And I think, like, sometimes you just can't do it because you're sick or you're busy or whatever. But yeah, like, it's a really thoughtful thing.

Like, if you're going to be presenting information to people, like, you better make sure that, they don't want to turn away from the screen, right? And like he does a really good job of that. And you understand how well that meshes with what Fowler and Herbie are trying to do. They're bringing the nuts and bolts. They're making sure that this is a lockdown, knowledgeable, wise-up college football show. And then here's Corsa, who's a wise ass,

who's saying, no, no, no, baby, we got it. We got it, we got to, we got to make love to the television screen here. I know. I mean, what a, what a public sacrifice he made. because because of that, because he was so willing to engage in the entertainment, like you forget that like, man, first of all, to become a college football coach, like those guys are really, really smart and they have to know a lot of things. Also, like to think of him as like comic relief, that motherfucker was a really good football player.

Like they called him the Sunshine Scooter. Yeah, I think he has the, I think he still has the career interceptions record in Florida State or something like that. And it's just like, yo, he was willing to like, you know, for people to sort of, of look at him. And I know it seems like he sort of has this tension with like people think it could be as a clown. But like it's like, yo, no, that dude actually has like a really good resume in the game. But like he thinks the entertainment is what matters most of all. And like, thank you for being willing to engage in that and do that for everybody. And it goes back to what you said. When he got head to football jobs, it was at basketball schools. Indiana, Louisville. And he

told me when I talked to him a couple years ago, he said, I just had to get people interested in our football program in any way that I possibly could. And there's this whole list of Lee Corso's stunts. You mentioned the coffin. They'd been on a losing streak at Indiana, and he comes out to do his weekly coaches show. Coaches shows, as you know, Joel, are absolutely terrible television programs. Horrible. Horrendous. Well, there were a couple of interesting things about Corsos show, which ran in Indiana and in Indianapolis. One, it ran against Meet the Press, which I always thought was really funny. That's funny.

Two, Corso told me other people would have a local news anchor, maybe the Play-by-Playman, asking them questions. Corso's like, actually, I don't need a co-host. I got this. I love that. And then three, after this losing streak at Indiana, he finds a coffin that is a prop from a children's show back when local stations had those things. And he rises out of the coffin and says, we aren't dead yet.

I love it, man. But you understand, like, that's very local TV. It's the kind of show you and I grew up watching as kids that was long gone now. And even the grammar of that kind of television show is basically forgotten. He brings that to a national TV network. Yeah. He literally says there's nothing below us. We have to be entertaining.

Like, we're, dude, we're ESPN in 1987. Forget game day. This is just, like, ESPN is not as nearly the thing it would be even for. five years later, we need to do everything we can to get attention. As you point out in that, again, and I recommend all of our listeners reread Brian's oral history that ran on this in 2023. I mean, it ran after hunting and fishing shows. Like, that's what you had to wade through to get to college game day back in the day.

And those were lucrative compared to college game day. I mean, that was where they were making some money at the ESPN. As I always say, the Keanu Time, the Keanu Entertainment, block, you know? It was a different, it was a very different time at ESPN. Let's close here, Joel. So I mentioned Lee Corso had a stroke in 2009. And I think just about any other television performer in sports or out of sports would have been very, very self-conscious about coming back on the air. He was not. He has a stroke in the spring of 2009. He's back on the air that fall being Lee Corso. What was it like to watch him in those years after that

happened? Well, I mean, just being honest, it was very uncomfortable, right? Like, you just, you know, you know, he's struggling to get words out. I don't know if he couldn't remember certain facts or whatever, but, you know, it'd just be like, okay. Like, you know, he, he, it was not the polished, or even like, not even polished, like not even, it wasn't even fun in quite the same way that it used to be, right? Like, you're looking at somebody who is clearly struggling with the health issue, but I thought he did a really valuable service, man, and, like, trying to get better. And also, I mean, like, we're at a point now where, you know, I mean, obviously Lee Corso is not the same person that he was 20 years ago, but it's less of an issue than it was. And I think

Herbie talked about how coach had the courage and the work ethic to get better, even at that point, right? Like, the doctor says, you're never going to be the same. whatever and he really worked at it so yeah man i thought i don't know were you uncomfortable because i certainly was it was it was one of those things where you just wanted it to be okay you didn't want somebody to struggle getting a name out on the air or or you're saying talking about a matchup that he would have been so eager and you knew he was so eager to talk about yeah but game day of course does this very interesting thing where every time they showed leic corso on the screen they would show a two shot with Herbie who was sitting to his left. And Herbie was there to help him.

I'm going to come in. I'm going to make sure that you don't get stuck here. I'm going to help you. And again, it was one of those things where you're watching it. You're just like, this is life. Yeah. This is this is what happens. And I also think, you know, Game Day and ESPN generally had this amazing vow where they're like, we're just not leaving this guy behind. Like he's part of Game Day, as long as he wants to be on the show, he's on the show. Yeah. And, you know, I'm glad in some ways that we got paired up on this, you and I, Brian, because like, I was at a point a few years ago where I was like, man, they're doing this

guy a disservice by putting him on TV in front of people. And I've kind of had a chance to rethink that, like hearing you talk about it and reading about it and, you know, have seen the people that are around him reading about them through your stories. And I was like, you know what? You know, it makes a lot of sense. This is real life and people do get invested in the show in that way. You just hope and you wish that, like, everybody could, everybody is not as important as

LeCoso is to their organization, but that more people got an opportunity. Yeah, right. But you wish that more people would offer that sort of like empathy and humanity. Oh, totally. Totally. And look, you know, this tell you know what television is. Like, you don't get to pick your retirement usually. Yeah.

He's one of the tiny handful of people that got to say when they, they were ready to go. And that's going to be this Saturday. Man, that would be, Hubey Brown now Lee Corso, man. The Hubey Brown thing made me really sad. So,

yeah, like losing Coach Corso, man, I mean, well, at least ESPN, don't bring back Lou Hotes. Don't bring back Lou Hots.

Joel, Joel doesn't want everybody to have the eggs. Everybody doesn't eat that at X-E. They want. I'm Brian Curtis. He's Joel Anderson, but X-Madagsy Magic by Isaiah Blakely. Joe, we got a huge week at the press box coming up as we hurdle toward college football season.

Tomorrow, that is Tuesday, Shoemaker and I are going to return with our early week show, complete with the strain pun headline and overwork Twitter joke of the week. Joel and I are back in our usual slot on Thursday doing our usual things. I feel you and I have a lot to catch up on. We really do, man. I feel like, yeah, we just haven't, we've just been doing so many special shows. We haven't had a chance to just chill, you know? Let's do it.

That's going to be two days before Ohio State, Texas, and the kickoff of college football week one. So I will have a big college football TV preview to present to you. There are a lot of interesting changes this year that are going to switch up your Saturdays. Oh, man. And speaking of Saturdays, we got some ringer programming. We need to direct people to. Joel, you are now a member of a national.

new show called Ringer Tailgate. That's right. A Ringer College Football show with Van Lathen and Tate Frazier. Yeah, man. We're, you know, we released our first show, which, you know, last week and we're excited about it. We want to get better. You know, we didn't get a lot of chance to have a lot of, you know, summer reps or anything.

So we're going to be working it out during the games. But you guys are the recruits that didn't enroll in January. That's what you're saying? No, yeah. We didn't get our classes together at times. So we had to come in in the summer. We didn't get to go through spring practice or anything. I'll say this.

These are three of my favorite ringer people in one place. So that's incredibly exciting. Number one. Number two, welcome officially to the ringer.com. Three podcasts a week. I mean, I feel this is your christening in a lot of ways. Oh, you know, my wife is not excited about it. But we'll figure it out.

We'll figure it out. It's going to be a live show on Saturdays after the late games and then another pot on Wednesday. People want to check that out. That's right. Yeah, man, please check it out. It's already up, you know, YouTube, Spotify, course, and wherever you get your podcast. So yeah, please check us out. One last bit of pluggery.

I have a new story up at the ringer.com. It's called Jimmy Petaro's ESPN enters a new era because yesterday the rebooted ESPN app went online. I thought it was a good chance to stand back and take a look at what ESPN is. become as a company. Great, great story. Can I read this line from it? If you must. In a different moment in media time,

the sports ESPN showed were less interesting than the things its announcer said about sports. If Pataro's predecessors began the process of reversing that ratio, Pataro has completed it. I thought that was just a really sharp, artful way of saying what's going on there. So yeah, great story. Please read it.

You absolutely should. Thank you, my friend. And I'll see you next Thursday with more lukewarm takes about the meeting. Looking forward to it, man.