The Press Box - The May Issue: The Unknockables 2026

Episode Date: May 31, 2026

Today on The Press Box, it's the May Issue! Bryan and David create the 2026 version of an Esquire magazine feature from 60 years ago, called "The Unknockables." They talk through a bunch of categories and nominees across society and culture, and they pick people in 2026 who are unknockable. Hosts: Bryan Curtis and David ShoemakerProducers: Ben Cruz, Isaiah Blakely, Jon Roemer, and Oscar De La Luz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the May issue of the press box. Brian Curtis here, along with producers Isaiah Blakely and John Romer. David Shoemaker will be by in just one second. But first, let me tell you what we're up to this month. Exactly 60 years ago, Esquire had a very fun cover story. The magazine picked a group of people it called The Unknockables. Now, what's an unknockable? Well, 1966, just like 2026,

was a crazy time in American history. Everybody seemed like a divisive figure. But as Esquire's editors wrote, the survival of mankind depends on at least some people being okay, or what would be the point of going on. In other words, not everybody can be hated by 50% of the population. As a society, we must agree on the greatness of some people. Now, 60 years ago, the people on Esquire's list of Unknockables included John F. Kennedy Jr. and the Sound of Music's Julie Andrews and the actor Eddie Bracken, whom you might know is the kindly toy store owner in Home Alone 2. David and I wondered, could we pick a new group of Unknockables? People from all parts of society that emerged relatively unscathed from the cauldrons of social media and politics. Now here are the rules

that we followed when putting together our list. Rule number one, Our unknockables must be alive. Death makes just about everybody unknockable. Number two, the person must have some notable following, no obscurities allowed. And number three, remember, nobody is universally loved. Every mother Teresa has a Christopher Hitchens. But we wanted to find those people that just about everybody agrees are okay. Welcome to the May issue, The Unknockables, 2026.

All right, David, the best way to pick our group of unknockables is this. We've come up with categories, and every category has a group of nominees. Yeah. You and I came up with these nominees by doing some brainstorming, by hitting up friends. I even went to the bookstore of Romans in Pasadena over the weekend, and I brought a pen and a note card, and I went around just looking at the spines of the books in the biography section. Apologies to any person who works at Bromans

who thought the book inspector had showed up at their store. We'll discuss the nominees. They just thought you were marking down what books to buy off of Amazon, dude. You just walked in there and made yourself the biggest villain in the store. This thing looks such a jerk.

We'll discuss the nominees and then we'll put our favorites on a master list of unknockables. Are you ready, my friend? I am. And it should be said, like, first of all, should be said that we did a similar exercise the beginning of the ringer.

And called the, what was it called? The undeniable. The undeniable. And it was interesting to see how much, how many of those people were no longer on the list, which is to say almost all of them. Right. So there's a little bit of temporality to this.

There's a little bit of, you know, you acknowledge that it's a thing of the moment, but it aspires to be something much bigger than the moment. Yes. Right. It's a snapshot of a moment in time that should, in some ways, the moment in time.

Yeah, yeah. And there's definitely some people that have universal approval at this moment in time that are just, we'll talk about some of them. But just it feels almost too transitory. It's like we know,

whether or not it explains a moment in time, we know if we got out here in six months, the odds are that person would be at the bottom of the list, so why waste our time? You know, we want people to pull out this issue, like they pull out that old Esquire and be like, yes, these are unknockables. Absolutely.

category number one. Okay. Call this grand old men of basketball. Yes. And our first nominee is 92-year-old Hubey Brown. Yes. Is Hubey unknockable? It's interesting because, I mean, I think we're going to go around in the same sort of square dance circles that we do with every sports commentator.

Because, I mean, hell, just listen to the way that we've talked about sports commentator. on the show. It's like they, it goes up and it goes down and it's, you know, it's kind of hard to, well, it's not hard to predict. It's a pretty familiar trajectory. Very few of them last as long as the people on this, as a lot of the people on this list. And I think that that makes a huge difference. Hubey, can you make the argument that Hubey Brown, who gets more, I won't say flack, but has more people kind of doing Hubey Brown gimmicks over the span of his career online than just about anybody else talking in the third person or the second person you know all that stuff um by the way my dad used to my parents used to babysit for huvie brown did i ever tell you this story what yeah no he was

coaching the kentucky colonels or something and my dad is a good upstanding you know like young pastor and his wife in their early 20s used to like babysit for him did he go to your dad's church no there was no connection like as far as i know i think they had a friend in common you know they knew somebody else so we just dropped the kids off with you dad i think they went to huby's house other than they went to Shea Hubey. I can't believe you never told me that before. And so it was a weird thing to realize. It was one of those dad's stories

have been around for so long that you're just like, you just kind of, you know, numb to it. But yeah. Anyway, Hube Brown certainly feels like he's gotten there. I think so. It feels like he's gotten there almost at the last minute too.

Not that there's been a lot of drop-offs in his, well, I'm not going to, you know, in his commentary ability, but he's not going to be around. for that much longer. David, how dare you, sir? Doing it at this level. Well, he's retired from broadcasting.

No, I know. Like giving a radio interview or something like that? Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, just like, he's not going to be around for us to comment on, like, to have an opinion on, whether or not he is with us anymore. I feel like his last decade on the air, you started to hear a lot of, you know who's great?

Yes, I agree. He sounds just like he has for the last 30 years, Cuby Brown. Yeah. He'd be in and out of the NBA, but there was a lot of, of late career respect put on Hubie's name. I think it's important too because we got a lot of retreads,

not retreads, people have been doing it pretty continuously, but a lot of, but there's a number of people from our childhood that were still calling games, you know, much for years and years beyond that. And there's always a drop off. There's always a, oh, that was just, I liked him because I was a kid. I was liked him because I was familiar with them. I liked him because, you know, whatever.

He was my childhood guy. Yeah. I don't feel like Hubie was anybody's childhood guy, but maybe that's why he's. this guy. Yeah. Childhood guy. All right,

Hubey, I'm advancing to the final list. How about CBS is Bill Raftery? Another guy who's gotten a lot of shine. A lot of shine over the past. I would say last two years.

Yeah. I was going to say it's not a decade. Yeah. I mean, I think if you have to pick one of the two, you go Hubey Brown. But I don't have any problem at all with Bill being on the list.

And being on the next round if that's where we're going. I also had Dickie V as a grand old man of basketball. Still doing commercials? Still doing commercials, battling cancer. He called a game last year, right? He did. I believe he did.

He's a guy who was wildly divisive during his career. Very popular. There you go. But there was a lot of anti-Dickey V sentiment in the world. Yeah, I mean, I think if you're a diehard college ball fan, you're used to watching local broads, for your team or whatever. And then, like, at the moment where your team gets big enough to have a national game,

you just have Dicky v. just yelling the entire game, just like, whoa, you know, you're just like, come. Yeah. Michigan. Amazing. Yeah. I can, I can, like, I get that. You also don't want to put them in, like, if you eliminate the cancer, I know we're getting

into treacherous territory here. eliminate the potentially fatal diseases from any of these names would they come up, would they still be on the list? Not that that should matter, but it's an interesting question. I think in his case, it's a yes. I think he's a,

I think he's more of a mascot than a, you know, color commentator. But I don't know. When you talk to people, do you feel like there are some people, still people out there that had divided feelings, or negative feelings about him. No, I think he had become a grand old man of basketball.

Yeah. Over the last five to ten years. Plus, just like he's a survivor of old ESPN. Mm-hmm. He started working from them at the beginning. Yeah. There just aren't many people. In fact, just nobody besides basically Chris Berman around that can say that anymore.

Here's another name I had in this category that's kind of interesting. What do we think about Pat? Riley. My son is a Miami Heat fan and said to me directly this week. I think it's time for Riley to retire. So that rules it out. That might be all the needs to be said. I mean, it's certain, listen, a lot of this is going, a lot of the calculus here is about whether or not the the naysayers of a bygone age are still naysayers, right, have they been one over? And I think it's fair to say that like a lot of the Riley naysayers are no longer naysayers, right?

I mean, you might still have somebody like Bill, our boss, who hated Riley because he coached the Lakers and now hates Riley because he is the GM of a team that always lays into the Lakers. But for the most part, I would say that well, for one thing, going to the Knicks, you get enough people against you, then eventually everybody's

on your side. There's a little bit of that. Lakers and Heat, those are all hate magnets. All hate, not heat magnets hate magnets yes yes but they but absolutely they are i mean he made the heat into it he yes he made them worth hating because mostly because of his you know his his his next tenure um but does anybody really hate him anymore for the rivalries that he was a huge part of or there are there still anti lakers and anti nix people it's hard to imagine who those anti nix people are at them at a moment like this in history but are there

There's so people that hate Pat Riley. I'm sure there are. But I feel like he's won a lot of them over, just by being the kind of grand old man of basketball. He reminds you of the Lakers' glory days more than you resent him for the Lakers' glory days if you're a fan of the opposition. That's a great way to put it.

I'm going to put him as a maybe. Yeah. The other name I had here and related to Pat Riley is Kareem Abduljabbar? No, because he was, isn't he vocally political? Doesn't that just knock out, like, all of the Trump supporters in the country or something? He's not trying to be unknockable. No, you're right.

Of all the people on this list, he might give the few a shit about unknockability. So from that category, I like Hubie Brown as the best, as our best nominee. But let's keep Raft and Dicky V and Pat Riley in our mind as we move forward here. Category number two, David, country music superstars. This is a bizarre category because we don't have pop music superstars. start or do we have another singing category right but there'll be some more down the road but this is a very specific thing and it mostly has to do with the fact that we grew up in texas and just have like running jokes about country music musicians not necessarily negative to the but but to the extent that

like we are so up on country music so who is on this list in the unknockable category the unknockables category let's start with the person who may be number one overall in any category dolly part That's just a yes. That's just a unqualified yes. 100% yes. Yeah. Three years ago, my son and I went to the Cowboys game on Thanksgiving, and Dolly Parton was the halftime act.

Mm-hmm. And she is up on a stage wearing a Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders outfit. Oh, my God. Singing, in addition to Jolene and 9 to 5, singing, We are the champions. My gosh. And you just look at this, like, this is just ludicrous and strange. Mm-hmm.

Dolly Parton singing, We are the Champions and a cheerleader outfit. But it was also awesome because she is Dolly Parton. She has no known enemies. Remember last year when she had the health scare? Mm-hmm.

When her sister had that post, it was like prayers up for Dolly, and everyone was like, oh, no. Yeah. It turned out to be kidney stones, and she was okay. And anyway, Dolly Parton. My wife went to Dollywood as a child, I believe.

Also, when as an adult, but when is a child? And, you know, did you know the Dolly Part? Are you familiar with, like, Dollywood at all? Yes. I mean, I'm Ben, but I know of it. But are you aware that, like, Dolly Parton has, like, an army of siblings who are the performers, the headline performers at Dollywood? Was this one of the sisters who was weighing in? No, it was Randy Parton.

Somehow, Dom got a Randy Parton cassette tape and was obsessed with him for some period of time. Randy Parton. It's like the Frank Stallone of Dolly Parton? Yeah. But Dolly Parton is just a yes. She's a yes. Here's another name. She might have been on the original, I mean, on the, on the original ringer list.

I could be wrong. She deserves it. How about Willie Nelson? Well, again, Cina's very political, but I think has a lot more crossover into the libertarian sphere than Kareem does. Yeah, remember when he got in trouble when we were kids for pot and unpaid taxes? Yeah. Anybody again? pot or unpaid taxes now?

Did Willie have a point? I remember when we were growing up but I'd read Texas Monthly. And after a while you're like, if Texas Monthly could put Willie on the cover for 11 out of 12 issues every year, I think they would. Yes.

And I almost started as a young punk as a rebel, David, be like, I hate this guy. Screw Willie Nelson. I don't want to go to his July 4th picnic. Yeah. I don't want these old icons of Texas, but man, Willie feels absolutely the best.

Just a Texas icon. I mean, it is, it sort of says something about Texas that he's the icon of the state in so many ways, but has such a specific sort of political and social, you know, point of view. Yeah. I just think that at the court, no matter what you want to say about, you know, we just had a primary in Texas last night as we're recording this and obviously the politics there are, you know, its own animal. but I do feel like there's this huge libertarian streak in Texas

that conventional politics hasn't found a way to wrangle, you know, and that that sort of makes, that sort of, in some ways, Willie Nelson speaks for to all of Texas more so than Ken Paxon or whoever. I completely agree. And there are people at Ken Paxon's Victory Party who would be very happy to Willie Nelson concert. Oh, very, very happy at a Willie Nelson. Aside from Willie's involvement,

would you've been shocked to see Willie Nelson perform at that, victory party? I mean, Willie would say no, but like if they had brought out Willie Nelson or if they had blasted on the road again, you wouldn't have been surprised. No.

This name's a little more regional. Actually, can I just say one more thing? Please. In some ways, Willie Nelson is the king of this king of this test because his politics don't matter at all. In some ways, you know,

it's like his, like he could, he's almost like, well, I don't want to go into the Michael Jackson waters here, but it's a similar thing where it's like the music is so good or the, whatever, the icon is so implanted in the firmament that you don't think about the person that much. And in Willie's case, there's a Dow of Willie. Yeah. That is distinct, I think even from Dolly.

For sure. This is a little more regional, but I put George Strait in this category. You see a couple years ago when George Strait got a hundred and ten thousand people at Texas A&M's Kyle Field? Yeah. It's just this unbelievable Twitter clip. Again, a little regional for probably a lot of listeners of this podcast, but inside Texas, which straight is unknockable. So we'll put Dolly and Willie down as we move on it.

I think that's right. Another category. Auteurs. Oh. How do we feel about Martin Scorsese? I feel like I should be able to think of a knock. I mean, don't you feel like the biggest knock on Squarespace? in the past decade has been from film buffs who wished who wanted something different from him

better late in late career movies yeah but i think just to kind of put every detractor into one category it's like people that had like like a knit to pick with martin scorcese sure like you know i wish the irishman were a little better i wish i wish the irishman were better i wish he would it's i either wish you would do more of x or less of x you know like whatever you know i wish you would try something new or I wish he would just go back and, you know, just do casino too. But, yeah, I think that he is unknockable. I'm trying to think of what, like, if the loudest anti, if the loudest anti voices are coming from his corner, basically, then that kind of makes him unknockable.

I agree. And he's still an active director, which is interesting. He's also a really good talker. He's lots of interviews, and those interviews always feel very deep and important. whether he's talking about movies or talking about life itself. Yeah. He's just a very interesting figure

in addition to being an interesting director. Also a widely hailed actor for his performance in The Mandalorian and Grogu? Where he plays a monkey with several arms. He was running a food truck. Did you know that was him going in? I know we talked about this on the press box this week. So I saw his name in the opening credits.

And then I was like, okay, what's going to... And I did not know that that had... I did not know that that was going to happen. So then my ears were open for Marty Scorsese and there he was. Did you pick it out? Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to figure out who he was the entire, until the monkey came on screen.

I was like, oh, that's probably him. It was also just a weird vocal performance because it didn't sound like a voice actor. Yeah. So like, who is this? Why would this person be doing this? Of course. Yeah. Why would you pick Scorsese for that role if he's knockable?

You wouldn't put it really, like, really, you wouldn't put Lars Von. Trier. No. You wouldn't put Michael Bay is the forarmed monkey. How about

Steven Spielberg for this list? Now remember, we're not talking about greatest director of our era. We're not

talking about living legend. We're talking about someone that everyone can agree is good. Spielberg make the cut? I have issues

with Disclosure Day the title. does that take him out of the running? I, the same thing, every time I mention it to my son who's excited about seeing it, I get it wrong. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I call it something else. That one is so weird. I mean, it's not so weird. But Disclosure Day is one of those that every time I see it, I start to think maybe I'm crazy. Like, how does Spielberg have a bad movie title? Like, this is either I'm missing the joke

or this is what all movie titles will be like in five years. You know, like, I don't know what the, like, I just feel so, I feel so put off by it that I feel like I'm the problem. And dude, can you imagine if this movie is bad and destroys an old guy still got it, new cycle that has been building for months? Listen, the thing with Spielberg movies is that they're, at worst, their kind of surface. You know, that they could be deeper, they could be better. I have a hard time imagining it being bad. Like, what was it?

What's a bad Spielberg movie? It's been one that's just objectively bad in a long time. there have been something that have just been okay. In fact, I think most of his recent movies have been good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's what I'm saying, though. It's like, I feel like he's such a machine. Like, it would be hard for him to get something utterly wrong. Here's my only drawback with putting him on here is that he is still very much an active director.

Yeah. And somehow being in the thick of it makes it harder just perhaps because there's the potential to, he will make a turkey, he will make another always or, the Lost World or wherever he want to pick is Steven Spielberg's worst movie. I don't know if that makes any sense. You know, he's like one of he's Uncle Stephen. He's very engaging. I don't know that there's an important anti-Speelberg contingent anywhere.

Mm-hmm. Among critics, among movie fans, among... Do you think that the documentary that they did about him slash the Fableman's in terms of mining his own personal life and all that kind of stuff, Do you think that that has any impact on the conversation we're having now at all? I think him revealing himself like that a little more just having a child in danger in every single movie that he's ever made, doing it a little more directly through autobiography,

or at least partially disguised autobiography. I think that endeared into people. Yeah. I didn't like the fathlman's, am I allowed to say that? Yeah, I didn't love it either. I think that that's sort of, you get a pass on your biopic or on your memoir. I mean, I think he's just automatically in. It's hard, it's just hard not to.

I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate a little bit. I'll put Spielberg down. Here's another name. This feels like, and again, we can, when we get to the final list, we can decide we only want one director or something like that. Yeah. Here's another name, though, Mel Brooks. Has Mel Brooks become unknockable?

Yeah, I think Mel Brooks in some ways, although there's certainly people that disagree with his politics and blah, blah, blah. I think he transcends a lot of that. And I think in some ways he's like this sort of patron saint of this sort of list. You can't imagine having a bad, a bad conversation about him, right? You can't imagine, like if any conference, any Mel Brooks discussion in a bar is going to be a good one. He's the classic artist who was a Bulgarian. who his art was meant to offend you and make you laugh.

Yeah. And then he aged into becoming this saint. And everybody forgot about that. It's like, wouldn't he great, Mel Brooks? Yeah. Like, it doesn't matter. And you go back and watch, even watch some of those classic movies. Some of them are just absolutely great.

And some of you're like, whoo, there's a lot of wimps in there. Yeah. Or just a lot of jokes. Even if you laugh, you wouldn't be telling them out loud that that war right now? No. You excited about Spaceballs too? Spaceball's two next year. He turns 100 in June.

Mill Brooks. All right. Well, let's get him on the list. Another Bulgarian turned lovable lug, John Waters. Just throwing the name out there. I mean, he's a great one for the list. I don't know if he beats anybody,

any of the names we've already talked about, but like that's a, just in terms of, you know, name recognition and everything else. I also put Ken Burns down as a nominee. I was thinking of Ed Burns. I'm like, we're talking about autours, huh?

He's knockable. He's writing novels now. Is he? Yeah. Ken Burns just feels so anodyne. I do too. But it's like, is that the definition of unknockable? Or is that the antithesis of unknockable?

I don't give a knock. So, yeah. I think there's a lot of people who feel he's anodyne. Also, he just feels like he's making my, I looked up as American Revolution. series, which I think it was his last one. There were a lot of people that were just incredibly mad at it. So let's leave Ken Burns off the list.

Yeah. All right, new category. Childhood Discoveries. May I present you with the author of Superfudge and Are You There, God. It's me, Margaret. There you go. Judy Blume. When did we talk about Judy Blum?

Didn't we talk about her on the show? We did because there's a new biography out. Oh, that's right. I mean, she's not still producing work. I think she's mostly just being Judy Bloom. Wouldn't you love the Judy Bloom? Old guys still got it? Like one more, one more Fudge book?

Are we aging Fudge in actual years? So Fudge is, you know, having a midlife crisis right now? Yeah, that would be great. Just a modern fudge. What would Fudge do? Dude, I have no idea. Is Fudge like a YouTuber? Yeah.

The Fudgestorm the Capitol on January 6th. I don't know. She's greatness to me. Feels like this is also a box that we should fill. We lost Beverly Cleary. We lost Stan and Jan Barronstein. Judy Bloom is unknockable. Yeah.

How do you feel about Calvin and Hobbs creator Bill Waterston? Well, he's not still producing. Waterson, excuse me. Yeah. I mean, he's on my list. I did see that they're repackaging, and who knows how many years ago they did this, but they have some cool new additions of the Calvin Hobb stuff at the Barnes & Noble that I'm excited to buy for my little one someday soon.

But is he too just out? Is he too just a thing of the past? That would be my only quibble. I think so. I think he's on your greatness list and my greatness list, but I think that's a little different than what we're doing here. Yeah. I don't feel like there's enough discussion about him to really merit inclusion.

Our friend Chris Sullen Trubes suggested this one. Nintendo game designer, Shiguru Miyamoto. I have no idea what his work is. Does he do the Mario games? Here's what he created. Donkey Kong, Super Mario Brothers, and the Legend of Zelda. Okay, yeah, he's on. He's in.

Okay. Here we go. Well, I don't know. We'll have to do some light post-show research. Make sure there's no milkshake duckness involved in. I asked Chris, I said, who's the guy that just everybody loves from video game world? Yeah. He said, it's Miyamoto.

How about, would it, could it be Mario? I know he's not a real person. I think, I think there was, I think nobody liked the last movie. So Mario, no one that just came out? Yeah, that was, that was kind of a bust. I just think it's so crazy that Mario is an icon with our kids. Yes. That's a real testament to something.

but maybe that we just give that to the creator. I think it's amazing that Judy Bloom just holds up that I would just, when my kids were young, was like, okay, time to read these books. Yeah, that's true. And they were like, these are great. Her last book was 2015, by the way. 2015.

Anyway, yeah, yeah, sure. What's a video game guy's name? Shiguru Miyamoto. Yeah. Miyamoto, you're on the list. Welcome to the list. Another childhood discovery for most people. Michael J. Fox.

Oh, God. I wish he had done... What was he just on an award show or something? What did he... I saw him fairly recently do a thing. He did a bit in an opening monologue or something. But I wish there was more current work. I understand there's reasons for this.

Sure. Michael J. Fox, promote him to the next round. I think he is. I think it's hard to... He's beloved. To make... To have an exception to him. He has no enemies.

Alan Siegel, our friend and Ringer co-conspirator, also suggested Henry Winkley. That is an absolute great one. I do have one, I do have one counterpoint to this, though. Okay. Are you familiar with hazardous history with Henry Winkler? I'm not. It is a, I believe, a history channel show.

And it's good in theory. It's just like you turn it on. And it's one of these things that just, you know, the platform TV viewing is made for, where you're just like, oh, a whole episode about like the toys that were low-key. lethal that we played with his kids, you know, and you're like, this is great. But Henry Winkler is the host

in the most, I'm just here for the paycheck sort of way possible. He is the host, he does the, you know, the bumpers for every segment, but this is one of those talking head shows. And he's not one of the talking heads. It has nothing to do with Henry Winkler except he introduces the segment

and does the outro too. And it's some of the, it changed the way I thought about Henry Winkler because I thought this guy was just a home run hitter every time he took the plate. But it turns out he can half-ass it too. He can take a paycheck? But I don't know that that's really detrimental to his case.

I think Henry Winkler is a pretty great one. The fact that they wanted him to do a history channel show and paid him whatever amount of money to show up and do a season in 30 minutes, I think speaks to his unknockableness. The cheapo cable show, It was so funny to me. We always see those clips from the one that Commander Riker,

Jonathan's and Freaks did. Oh, I forgot about that. Was it a 911 show? No, no, it was a Mysteries of the Universe. It's a fake. Oh, yeah. It's like, is Henry Winkler on here? I mean, I feel like he is just a beloved.

Happy Day is a little old for you and me. We mostly saw that and it's kind of a rerun. Yeah, for sure. Man, he is, it feels like he's beloved. I feel like everybody, not every, just about everybody involved with, with arrested development is a nominee for this list

but he weirdly even more than like Baitman or something might be the frontrunner because he's just, yeah, he's beloved. Okay, I'm going to put him down. We'll make some eliminations later. We might have to pick one of him or Michael J. Fox. I would go with Winkler. Our new category, David,

space travelers. Oh. Can I interest you in the second man to walk on the moon? Buzz Aldrin. Now is Buzz Aldrin the one that has punched people for like questioning the legitimacy of the moon landing? Yeah.

Okay, then put him on the list. That's great. Now, I don't know how we handle politics here. We'll just kind of figure this out as we go, but he endorsed Donald Trump in 2024, though largely on the grounds of space travel. He's a one. He was pro-space force.

Pretty much. it's hard to find Buzz Aldrin knockable in any way. Yeah, I mean, I think he's probably a jerk. But like, you know, that's what do you? Sometimes you have to be a jerk to make it an astronautary. Space travel. I should have said space travel. Go on.

Another space traveler, Mark Hamill, is he unknockable? I mean, I guess I'd probably put Buzz above him. But I, but I mean, we can pick more than one, but just throwing him out. Let me throw another name at you. Another space travel. Patrick Stewart. Oh, yeah. And he's going to come back

because Professor X, maybe, presumably too, which is big. I mean, listen, I think with Mark Hamill, he certainly is done, he certainly is much more unknockable than he was even during his heyday. Right? The victory lap that he got,

but I just don't know if Mark Hamill's on the list. Yeah, I think Patrick Stewart is a low wattage definite. You know what I mean? I think so, too. I think he's that guy he doesn't have the star power of certain people but he also has the

you know we are all bought in on Patrick Stewart I've never heard someone saying you know who sucks Patrick Stewart I also put George DeKai and William Shatner in the talents for this category I think Shatner's like another guy who's not seeking to be unknockable

he's seeking to be divisive yeah all right there's a big bottleneck when it comes to actors. We can't take all these people. We can't even take half of these people.

We're going to have to be very judicious here. I have grouped them by... Oh, by the way, sorry, can I jump backwards real quick? Yeah. Patrick Stewart on... What was the Ricky Dervais show? Extras? Extras. Hilarious.

Unbelievable clip. I still watch it every once in a while. Yeah, that's enough for Domeg that list. I grouped these actors by what decade of life they're in. Oh, God. Okay. Let's start with the centenarian thespians. Okay.

Say that fast three times. These are people that are 100 years old, and I only got one person in the category, and he is Dick Van Dyke. Yeah, sure. Of course, Dick Van Dyke. Are you sure? I mean, I remember when we... I get you pitch him, and then you're like, now let me tell you why not. Well, this is a debate show, David.

He did get canceled. I'm just kidding. Remember when in the 90s when... diagnosis murder was on the air and you and I were like, that is a show we will never watch one moment of. Yes. And Entertainment Weekly would always do that television preview every year. They'd pick a show like Diagnosis Bird. They'd be like, nope. That would be the whole preview of the show. I don't know if Dick Van Dyke is unknockable or just like, it's cool that he's 100. Yeah. Let's think about that.

What are the knocks on Dick Van Dyke, though? I mean, most of the, most of the huge positives are from a bygone era. I mean, he was another guy who was, he felt old when we were kids. Oh, yeah. He felt like he was from a, from another time. He and Carol Burnett are the ones where you're just like, is she on a list? Funny, you should mention her because we are

now at the... Ben Cruz, Executive Bristair Bing Cruz says his British accent in Mary Poppins is atrocious. Okay, he's out. As a full-fledged Disney adult, I'll give Ben the benefit of the doubt on that. Thank you, Ben, for eliminating him. Not a generarian,

Thespians. Mm-hmm. How about 93-year-old Carol Burnett? There you go. Round of tributes a few years ago when she turned 90. Mm-hmm. Also felt like somebody a little before our time. Yeah.

So she was still around doing stuff? Mm-hmm. Carol Burnett, she on the list? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay. I also put down Julie Andrews.

She lost her ability to sing. I mean, I think that sort of ruins her. Goodness gracious. More Julie Andrews. Sorry, you're out. Julie Andrews, what? You know what's funny? She was on the original list of unhackables.

I don't dispute that. She was 30 years old. Now she's 90. Wow. There'd be a little symmetry to putting her on the game. Okay, leave her on the list for symmetry. I don't know about you, but my kids will just watch the sound of music, which is not a moot. Yeah, and it's not a movie.

It's really long. It's two eight. It's two VHS tapes. I know this because we owned it growing up. June Squib is 96. Who? June Squib, I guess he's done on the list. Clint Eastwood is 95.

He made a movie two years ago that people liked juror number two. Yeah, that was good. Though he is very political, and I still remember him talking to a chair at the 2012 Republican convention. And what did he show up at in the past year, and he was, like, standing in the crowd and, like, hobo clothes and a long beard? I don't remember that. I do remember. There's a weird, like, licensed Twitter photos that you see.

Mm-hmm. I don't know. I mean, I love Clint a lot of ways. Yeah, and I feel like everybody that works with him has a hilarious story about him. Ah, I would be great with putting him forward, moving him to the next round. Man, we're going to have, like, 50 people on this list. Well, next round will have to be cutthroat. Okay.

These are octogenarian thespians. How do we feel about Jack Nicholson? I mean, he's great. I don't feel like he's on the list. Morgan Freeman. Just in an Audi commercial. Yeah. I mean.

I think he's pretty beloved. Yeah, I don't know how you keep him off the list. Unless he's got some deep, dark secrets. He's pretty unknockable. Harrison Ford? I mean, yeah. He's Indiana Jones. So let's separate that from,

Well, he also got the victory lap in the Star Wars prequels, I mean, sequels. And now he's in shrinking. And I don't know if you've seen him do any interviews, but it feels like he's just like, he was just so giddy to be like, have the opera. When he won the award, did he win an award for shrinking? Is that what I'm thinking of? But it seems like he's just so giddy to have been afforded the opportunity to act. You know what I mean?

Like he's just, I feel like he's so much more endearing now. Certainly he probably a jerk. But. Yeah, he's not, he's not a jerk on. on talk shows like he was when we were kids. Yeah. I was like, I don't want to be here and I'm going to make this as painful

and uncomfortable as possible. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, who doesn't love Harrison Ford. Some more... By the way, I don't know what Harrison Ford's politics are, and I don't think anything would surprise me. But I still say he makes the next round. No.

Jeb Bush voter, to me, is my leader in the clubhouse. Some more 80-somethings just stop me if any of these are interesting for this list. Robert De Niro, Jane Fonda. he's probably not unknockable. She's probably not unknuckleable. Both very, yeah. Lily Tomlin,

Steve Martin, Al Pacino. An interesting name is John Lithgow. Oh, God. He's in the new Harry Potter thing, right? Yeah, and he's playing Roald Dahl on the Broadway stage right now. That's right.

He's also very, how old is he? He's in his 80s. Yeah, he's old. He's an interesting one. There was a good New York mag piece by Rebecca Alter about him. Like, he's doing this play about Roald Dahl. And the subject of the play is anti-Semitism and Israel. And then he's going to the Harry Potter universe,

which requires navigating the whole J.K. Rowling question. And everybody's like, you know who's great? John Lithgow. Yeah, you're right. I mean, he's really hard to deny. And his body of work is so incredible. I think when I was a kid, when I was a kid, I feel like there was a little bit of like,

why did we pick this guy over an insurance? my head, it was like whatever sitcom dad I like the best should have had this role or whatever. But when you go back and watch now, go watch Harry and the Henderson's with your kids or whatever, and you're like, oh my God, John Licka was by far the best part of this. I completely agree. I did not like him as a kid. Yeah. I don't know if it was latent fear of going bald someday.

How did that turn out? But he, boy, I just love him now. Also in the 80-something. Wait, wait, say the list again. Oh, I can look at it. but there was somebody else on that list that I thought should have some mention. Steve Martin?

I know, the Steve Martin one is interesting. I have no, I love Steve Martin. I'm a lifelong, certainly loved him as a kid when I hated LISCow. And he's only gotten, like, I've only learned to love him more and more. But why do I feel like he's not on the list? What am I forgetting?

I mean, he's another guy who I don't think was going for universal acclaim, but has kind of aged into it. I'll put him down as a possibility. I mean, the banjo, which he did. He played a lot of banjo in the 70s, but just like, it's been a great skill to age into. He's also a writer, obviously.

You know, I was a huge shopgirl fan back in the day. And, yeah, I just feel like, I feel like he's just, I mean, I just feel like he's got everything going for him. 70-something actors, Merrill Streep. Is that like Dolly? Is that straight onto the list? Samuel L. Jackson? Yeah,

I'd say no. Okay. This came from our producer John Romer, John Goodman. Oh, yeah. God. Does anybody not agree that John Goodman is good?

No, he's fantastic. He was on a show with Roseanne, and he escaped untainted and perfect. Other names, Denzel Washington, Bruce Willis, Arnold Schwarzen, Neger, Sigourney Weaver. Arnold is an interesting one.

My biggest thing on Arnold is like, how is he not, how, why is he not doing bigger movies? Why did he come out of pseudo retirement to just do like Netflix originals? They're like, aren't even good or whatever. And he came out against gerrymandering. Yeah. But seriously, like, why did you not, like, why did he not just walk? I guess he did do a Terminator movie post-governorship,

but it seems like such a weird stage. his career? Like, how are you... Who is his representation that is not just lining up sequels to all of his big hits from the 80s and 90s? Instead of just commercials with Danny DeVito. Yeah. Like, twins, too, would be huge. Who wouldn't go see twins, too? Kindergarten cop, or, you know, college cop,

or whatever you want to say. You know, there's so many ways you can go on this. That's how we've aged the character. Yeah, he's a college professor teaching criminology now. Um... Yeah, that would be fantastic. But yeah, but that would be my question about him. Yeah, I don't think there's anybody else from that list.

So Gordy Weaver would have been interesting, but then I just saw the Madele-Lory, and which she was saying some of the most horrible lines imaginable. That's not her fault. Brian Cox. I also put Lori Metcalf on this list, speaking of Roseanne. I feel like she's had a big rally lately in the public esteem.

Jeff Daniels, though he's a little political. Yeah, always happy to watch him. Sure. 60-something actors. How about Tom Hanks? Well, no, because all. the crazy people think that he like kills kids and steals their shoes. Okay.

Is that disqualifying? I don't know. We'll have to go to the judges on this one. I put George Clooney here, though Joe and Jill Biden might have other ideas. Julianne Moore is kind of interesting. Francis McDormand. Julia Louise Dreyfus. Oh, God, yeah.

She was on the original ringer list. I'm going to put her number. Angela Bassett and Keanu Reeves might have actually aged into there somehow. Yeah. All right, this is a good category for us. Important book writers. Writers of important books or important people who write books?

I think probably both. Okay. How do we feel about Stephen King being an unknock? Well, certainly political. Yeah, I checked his Twitter account last night. It was about the Texas Senate and the Epstein files. Just as the data point, please continue. Is he one where just people don't care?

I think so. Everybody like entirely unaware. Like are the vast majority of people who buy Stephen King books even like on Twitter aware that he's on Twitter? Does that affect anything? No, I think he's sort of unknockable. I think he is.

And he feels like he's had this fourth, fifth act, whatever we're on with him that started with it. Now there's all these, you know, new adaptations. Yes. He's on the list. Here's another case. Don't you think that doesn't the fact that they're making, and he's just the writer, but the fact that they're making good content out of his books for the first time, even the weird things, like that 1922 show on Netflix or like whatever, it's like they're all good. Doesn't that make a huge difference? Because forever wasn't

the knock that like he was the problem in the adaptations? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Like he's like, I refuse to have that director, refuse to have it shorter than 12 hours, so he has to be on TV back when TV was bad or like whatever. He would have some demands, including weirdly remaking The Shining, because he wasn't happy with Stanley Kovic's version. But also, it was crap,

and it made him seem lesser. As a result, and I feel like he started getting into New Yorker and, you know, the New York Times book review. Well, and listen, and there was a, yes, and there was a point where his writing, regardless of quality, was sort of ghettoized.

right that that was like something that was deemed like inappropriate for polite conversation and now genre guy yeah and now all of our great i mean listen historically you can make the case that so many of our great films the majority of our great films are genre novels adapted or genre concepts adapted um but now i feel like everything is genre and everything is so genre to the point that stephen king is sort of like highbrow almost you know and i think there has been like a mainstream reverend reverence for his body of work, right? That's a thing where like even the most erudite, you know, egghead is going to be like, yeah, okay, but he does write really great stuff. I just don't love fill in the blank or whatever. Lyndon Johnson biographer Robert Cairo has to be on this list. Yes. Easy.

Put Margaret Atwood's name down. What would be the best next act for him? Obviously, it's to finish the Johnson thing. But if he was going to do, if he was going to crank out, is it? One more chapter of the Johnson book? Yeah, I think so. If that comes out, let's just say that comes out this year, and it's quickly followed by a standalone biography

he's been working on in secret all these years. Who would you love for it to be? I thought you were going to say, like, he writes a spy novel under a pseudonym. Oh, that would be great. No, I mean, like, if it was just like the guy who just spent three decades doing LBJ has like a 500-page, you know,

Bozo the Clown book that's just been waiting to come out or something. It'd be great if it was like a current actor and the actor wouldn't talk to him. I'm just like, nah, kind of saving it from my own memoir. I put Margaret Atwood down. I put Haruki Morikami down.

Outwood's a good one. I mean, her stuff is more popular and more prescient than ever. I mean, she's certainly of the authors that we've named, my favorite. I also put David Grant and Patrick Redden-Keefe down. more recent. I don't think they're on this list yet.

I don't think they're on the list because I feel like I don't know who they are. Like I feel like they're made, you know. You know who they are. No, I'm just saying if this were the, you know, 60s or 70s, if we get to, if we got to see David Grand on like, you know, a late night show just chatting it up for 45 minutes twice a year, then I feel like I would have a much better concept of. So that's a good point because books have gotten smaller. Yeah. They've become a smaller part of American culture. And those kind of guys that sold the kind of books they do

and are as popular as they are would have just been very, very different media figures. Yes. 30, 40 years ago. I mean, David Grant did have a 60-minute segment about him, so he's gotten there, but 60 minutes ain't what it used to be either. Yeah. Don't you feel like that's hell? I mean, listen, there's a lot of issues with late night.

You've done way more work on this than I have. But I almost feel like I would have more. much better opinions of some of the late night hosts over the years if they were allowed to bring their favorite writers on for lengthy conversations. Yeah. Haven't some of them done that? I mean, I'm sure they have, but like, you know, like Dick Cavett was just like rolling out bestselling authors, you know, twice a month or whatever.

And that never, it doesn't happen like that. I feel like Seth Myers is the guy doing that now. Maybe so. But I can't say I watched it in real time. So I'll just see the Twitter clip. Here's another category for you, pint-sized mascots. Go on. How do you feel about Punch the Orphan Monkey?

A knockable? The monkey with the stuffed monkey? Yes, the Japanese macaque that was abandoned by his mom and now carries around a stuffy. You're going to... I mean, what am I going to say about a monkey? I mean, he's... Do you know people that are like, I don't like punch? John Stewart kind of tried for like one show and then gave up.

Okay, but this is punch in the abstract. Let's think about like punch in a concrete way. If you said... Like you have to clean punches cage or something? Yes, that's exactly where I was going. If you told Christine, hey, guess what? They gave me punch. I'm bringing him home today.

What would she say? Well, I don't know, but I don't know if I want to live with, you know, Robert Cairo either in the house. Oh, offense to Robert Cairo. Okay. But I don't think there's any on the earth, even with the person's worst opinion of him, they'd be like, Robert Caro is filthy.

Like he's just a disgusting life form. And there's definitely somebody who would say that about any monkey. I don't know which I don't know. It would be a mess. Yeah. Having the monkey run around the house would be a mess. But we'll keep that in the back of our minds as we continue this category. Mudang, the Pygmy Hippo was another nominee.

Feels a little 2024. How about fecined bald eagles, Jackie and Shadow? Let's just advance the monkey and move on. I put Baby Yoda in this category, but I think he took a hit last week. I don't know, man. Baby Yoda is still pretty bulletproof. He was the best part of that movie. But I think the whole Baby Yoda brands tainted.

Do you think so? Well, it's just... They had a good run with it. It had a good run. I feel like... like animals, celebrity animals, both live and manufactured.

So get Grogo in here too. Animals and aliens deserve their own bracket. But you just advanced punch the monkey. I said go ahead and advance him. I'm just thinking, like, is there any celebrity animal that we're not advancing to the next round? Does Rin Tin Tin, does Asta the dog? Rintin is no longer with us. Oh yeah, okay. But still.

You're dead. I did the rules at the beginning, and he is, Rincentanis, bye-bye. All the dogs of our youth are gone. We're just doing the monkey. We have no, we have no room. Punch the monkey it is. I need your help with this category, David.

Musicians taking victory laps. Okay. You saw him on the late show finale. How about Paul McCartney? Yeah. McCartney's, if McCartney retires before he passes, it will be an odd moment. but not too shocking, right?

No. I mean, at this point, all he has to do is occasionally pop up and do things like that. He sounded pretty good. Yeah, he sounds good. He doesn't sound like Peek Paul McCartney, but then who does? Sure, who hates Paul McCartney?

I get a couple other names in here for you. Share. Should you take a victory last? I don't have a problem with Share, but okay. How about Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter composer John Williams. 100%. The most unknockable person in the world.

You know, if he'd just been the soundtrack of our childhood, he probably would be on the list. Yes. But now he's the soundtrack of our children's childhoods. Yeah. I noticed he didn't do the music for the Mandalorian and Grogu. When did he stop doing the Star Wars? He did Disclosure Day, though.

Oh, he did? Yeah. Oh, my God. But did he do all the Star Wars movies up until now? He did the Skywalker chapter films. Yeah, but he didn't do solo. The lesser stuff. Yeah, okay.

Neil Diamond. Interesting. They just had that Hugh Jackman movie, right, about the Neil Diamond impersonator. I don't know, man. He can't sing anymore. Some people hate Sweet Caroline. I'm going to say no on that one.

Yeah, I'm going to say no, too. Elton John. Oh, that's a good one. had a big farewell tour that went on for like 10 years. Is it over? I think it's over. I've missed my chance. My one goal in life was to see...

That would have been... That would have been great fun, by the way. Yeah. Sure. Put him... Advance him, I guess. A few more names. Yeah.

Stevie Wonder. Oh, that's a good one. Lion Ritchie. I mean, isn't it sort of the thing with being on American Idol, I think you saw an American Idol, is that you are sort of like arithmetic, arithmetically unknockable,

but not it, but immediately just sort of knockable once you're on the show. Yeah, I think I think that's, it's not cool. Stevie Wonder versus Elton John is a good, is a good contest. It is. I'm going to write that down for the next round. Bruce Springsteen, I think is probably a little political. I put Michael McDonald, now that he's, uh, rallied.

I mean, he is sort of unknockable. I don't know if he's quite, yeah, I don't know, it's a little bit odd. But yeah, just the sheer number of, like, Michael McDonald reaction videos available on YouTube. Randy Newman's kind of in that zone a little bit. Oh, yeah, he's a good one. Here's another serious. I guess if he, the Toy Story 5, I mean, Randy, talking about the soundtrack to World Childhoods. Randy Newman's this soundtrack to like two and a half generations of kids.

Oh, and in the trailer, it's all rocked out now. Oh, really? Yeah. Is it Randy Newman still or is it supermodic? Yeah. It just feels different. Yeah. Okay.

Here's a serious nominee who made a career of being unsurious. Is Weird Al Yankovic a knock? Oh. Say, I'm just scanning. Every time you say a name, I'm scanning for Knox. I think Weird Al Yankovic is weirdly maybe the most unknockable of anyone you've mentioned. I think so, too. I think he's on the list.

All right. I got another category for you. dames and sirs. Oh, love this, okay? It's gonna be hard to, it's kind of hard to knock a knighted person, but let's go. It is. How about Sir David Attenborough, 100 years young? Yeah, good piece about him on the ringer.

Danny Chow. Well, that's right, that was Danny. Everybody loves David Attenborough. Yeah, yeah, he's on. Dame Helen Mirren. Oh, she's a great one. Give you a few others for context. Judy Dench, Sir Anthony Hopkins,

former Manchester United Manager, Sir Alex Ferguson. Oh, I mean, I feel like Harry Mirren is my favorite of that bunch. Yeah, I mean, Anthony Hopkins is in there, too, but I just feel like we're just naming, like, the great actors of our generation rather than... I feel like people don't like Anthony Hopkins,

not for his acting ability, but I just feel like there's something weird about him. I don't know. Because he didn't show up at the Oscars. Remember who's the last... award that year and they were just like, here's a still photo. That was fun. I put down authors of good tweets.

I'm not sure anybody needs to advance here, but Joyce Carol Oates, Michael Cain, oh yeah. Dan Rather and Kevin Nash from the world of professional wrestling. You know my heart's with Kevin Nash. His geopolitical takes are just heavyweight caliber. Purposely divisive. No, he's not... No, I don't think...

I don't know any of those people that need to be promoted based on their social media history. I do appreciate a lot of them, though. Let's go to TV hosts and presenters. This is a fascinating list. Ernie Johnson.

100%. I think so, too. Just won himself another sports Emmy last night. David Letterman. Yeah. I mean, Dave was purposefully thorny during his days on television.

Yep. Less so toward the end. Mm-hmm. Came a little more huggable and lovable. But you say he's on there? Yeah. I mean, I think we loved his thornyness. Christiana Amunpur.

Oh. I mean, who put her on the list? I mean, she's hard to knock her. But yeah, yeah, I don't know if she's on the list. Let's see what else I got. Dame Prue Leith. Oh, yeah. 86 years old, she just retired from the Great British Baking Show.

What's next for her? It's a good question. She's going to write a synonymous spy novel, too? Or just a kitchen confidential type book? I put former BBC host Melvin Brag on here. I love Melvin. Yeah. And Brian Phillips suggests British football presenter, Adrian Childs.

I don't know much about Adrian Childs, but I looked at his Wikipedia page and there was no issues in controversy section, just a charity work section. Okay, that's good. So that's in his favor. Adrian Childs does not have to use a pseudonym to write a mystery novel, by the way.

He just did his go with Adrian Childs. Absolutely right. This is tough. Sports people. Sports people are very divisive. Are all the sports announcers would they have been in the previous category? Yeah.

Or some of them in this. I have somebody coming up later. Okay. I don't know how many sports announcers are unknockable other than Hupy Brown. Those guys are, just look at Twitter during any game. Yeah.

I mean, we would make the case for Joe Buck and Troy Eggman, right? But I don't know if you put them on the list. I don't know. They're coming up as a duo. Sports people, so active players is really hard just because they have a big hater fan base or anti-fan base.

Steph Curry. He's got to be the most unknockable. Shohai Otani. Oh, well, I mean, I feel like still, Otani and Trout are still sort of like, I mean, Otani is obviously the better player, but Trout's the more obscure. I feel like Otani is still

laboring in some level of obscurity despite being in a much bigger venue, obviously, and like a much bigger platform. You haven't seen Dodger ticket prices lately then. Okay. I'm good with Otani and Steph. Wemby, maybe a little early. Well, I think it's a little bit early.

I think the way that the Knicks run is going, if the Spurs are either going to lose in the conference finals or be the Darth Vader to the Knicks Millennium Falcon. Or wait, that's a really mixed matter that didn't line up. But you know what I mean. Yeah. Star Destroyer to the next Millennium Falcon. And that might really affect his permanency on this list.

Andy Reed? I was thinking about football coaches, he might be the most unknockable. Pat Mahomes is another good one. But I feel like people sort of... People hate him. No, I know. But I feel like there was a moment where you could have gotten both of them, and I think the moment sort of passed.

So those are the active guys. What if we take a little distance? Okay. And consider the case of Barry Sanders. Oh, he's a good one. Does anybody dislike Barry Sanders? Only Lions fans from when he retired really young. They don't resent him.

They don't resent him. And you know me, I'm on Team Emmett Smith, and I always have been, always will be. How can you not love Barry Sanders? How can you not be okay with Barry Sanders? Do you, what about, I mean, first of all, I agree. Second of all, was it dancing with the stars? What element of Emmett's post-playing career do you think

sent him in a different direction than Barry? Every segment he did for ESPN. Yeah. my answer to that question. I also put down Bow Jackson. I mean, documentary was great.

It institutionalized the legacy of him as a video game character. But he did not run for Senate in Georgia. No, he did not. Which might have made him less okay in some people's minds.

Olympians, I put down Hussein Bolt, Simone Biles, and Michael Phelps. Usain Bolt might be there So Simone Biles is pretty good too Although I mean did everybody get there Did everybody get enough individual hate At the last several Olympics online

That we just sort of toss it all out It's just hard when they're recent Even if it doesn't make any sense Yeah Because you know I mean like Well this is a I think a central question To this conversation right Like there was

Who's like the most famous Olympian Like Mary Lou Retton would have been the cover star of this issue of the press box magazine in 1980, whatever that was. 84. But not because of anything negative, just wouldn't never be any, isn't anywhere near the list now, right? So do you take that into account or do you embrace the fact that Olympic glory, you know, is fleeting but significant? It's a tough one. I mean, Carl Lewis, I feel, is still controversial in a way.

He was very controversial. Maybe it's been dimmed a little bit over time. A couple more names for your consideration. Like, is Alyssa, is like, is Alyssa Lou on the list? I think she, I think she kind of is right now, but it's just so unformed, you know? Yeah. And again, maybe that's all she is. Maybe it's a gold medal and that's perfect.

That's the way it goes with Olympics. Like you say, it's all fleeting. Yeah. Sandy Kofax is still at Dodger games looking incredibly. Oh, he's a great one. He's a tire. He's 90. Every time I hear that he's alive, I'm shocked.

I assumed he would be dead by two decades. Marv Levy is 100 years old. Oh, my God. Billy Jean King is a pretty interesting one. Oh, yeah. Is there anybody who's like, I don't like Billy Jane King? I need some real sexist dudes. sure but I think we can ignore them

it's also kind of an interesting 80s 90s list Magic and Larry yeah put them together it's hard to I mean individually I feel like you could knock both of them but you put them together and it is just sort of a great nostalgia nostalgia play Larry overcomes Magic's recent tweets

Joe Montana Jerry Rice Nolan Ryan Dr. J Akeem Elijah 1 I could go on and on I feel like Dr. J is the closest of that bunch, but I don't really know. I kind of like Barry Sanders. I mean, Barry Sanders is a yes for me.

I thought I was just talking about after the Barry. Sandy Kofax? Yeah. Billy Jean King. You're calling that one. We'll narrow it down. Public intellectuals, David. Oh, I like this category.

Neil deGrasse Tyson. I feel like people, I mean, he feels like an obvious yes. I feel like people hate Neil deGrasse Tyson, though. Is it just liberal or? Yeah, a lot of overexposure. People started calling out the things he got wrong, which is not good for any public intellectual, because whether or not you were wrong or right,

people can make it seem like you were very wrong. You can have a laundry list of things. I don't know. I feel like I actually need to like take a step back and like pull some of the universe on Neil deGrasse Tyson to figure out where he is right now. The actual planets. Yes.

It's funny because I was thinking like, Would any TV show or podcast not take Neil DeGrasse Tyson as a guest right now? No. If he wanted to come on the press box and talk about the Ross Barkin controversy, we'd be like, sounds great. Yeah. He was on Rogan, I think, more than, I mean, several times. And I feel like the Rogan crowd hates him now because of his performance there. But I don't know what that was.

I feel you might be right. Let's table that for a moment. I did get this actually when I was walking around in Vermont's bookstore, Carlo Rovelli, the Italian The Arrevelli, the Italian, theoretical physicist. Oh, yeah. He's big. Yeah.

Sells a lot of books. I don't if this fits his public intellectual, but I'll throw it down here. Pen and Teller. I love Penn and Teller. Are they unknockable? Again,

they've had some pretty low-wadded shows. But again, this is not like, were you the most successful, was everything a hit? This is, Can we all agree that you're good? Can everyone get together and say, you know what? We like Penn and tell it.

Penn is one of the only people whose podcasts I will occasionally listen to for no reason at all, other than it's just hanging out with Penn. I mean, that's basically the format of his podcast. It's not like structured in any real way. One time I needed him or I wanted him for a story, this is like 20 years ago. And I swear I sent an info, you know, an email to info at Pennjolet.com, and he called me back within minutes. Really?

Yeah. I've always wanted to meet him. I just feel like just get him, I mean, it's not like it's hard. Just hearing him talk about just like archaic terms from the magic world for five hours. It would be incredible. Also, I don't know if this is a public intellectual either. It's probably a no, but I at least wanted to mention John Stewart's name. I mean, the most divisive, he would be the most divisive name on the list, and yet?

And yet. I put him on there. Put him in advance him the next round. Let's have him fail against some competition. So many people have tried to do John Stewart. Yeah. And have failed to do John Stewart. I feel like even the right wingerers out there

are just more like disappointed in John Stewart's politics and like down on him as a comedian as a performer. That's the thing. He's actually funny. Yeah. And he will take shots of the left. Here's the category for you. People that bring us closer to God.

Okay. Pope Leo the 14th. He's kind of... I don't... Let's just say that's not... I just say popes are ineligible for the list previously because they would have been too easy and now because it's too hard.

Pope, by the way, the Pope was on the previous list. Pope Paul was on the original unknockable just for trivia purposes. The Dalai Lama. No, I feel like he's knockable. I feel like everybody knows about some very specific Dalai Lama related financial scandal or something. Not his doing,

but just sort of like wasn't the Dalai Lama. Wasn't the Dalai Lama funding that sex cult that what's her name was in? The video, what's it called? What?

Nixum? Dude, this is, the Dalai Lama was involved in that story. On a media podcast, you're like, wasn't the Dalai Lama funding and then just make an accusation like that? He was involved in that.

He was in the documentary. Right. It was very alleged. Not him. He showed up. Because they made a, because what's his name? I don't want to dig into these things I don't understand, but we are, the Dalai Lama is off the list.

Okay. Suffice it to say. Ballet dancer, Misty Copeland. I mean, sure, but not, I don't know. I don't know. Not big enough. This one came from Christine, Ina Garten. Oh, great one.

Right. When you were talking about Romans earlier, I thought for some reason I thought you were going to say you looked at the cookbook section because there's some good options in there. There's some good options. and I asked her, I said, like, who's the most uncomplicated? Who's the person that everybody agrees is good? I think the answer side of the card.

Yeah. I put some potentially unknockable institutions on this list. Inside the NBA. Okay. Pardon the interruption. Oh, yeah. The Criterion Collection. Oh, it's having a moment.

Wikipedia. Now, people who don't like Wikipedia. And letterboxed. And what? Letterbox. Oh, that's a good one. I would say of that group, PTI and Criterion, are the leaders. Now, we can decide on their eligibility later on, but in terms of just, do they make it

to the next round, yes. I agree. Double X. Joe Buck and Troy Eichman. Yeah. Tina Faye and Amy Poehler. Yes. I also put Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen on this, but I think we already advanced

Patrick Stewart on other grounds. Yeah. I mean, you can put PTI on this list, too. I like both those. Politicians. Sort of, part of me at the beginning of this was had the inkling of an idea that we could figure out the right presidential nominee for whichever party by doing this process and then doing the actually doing the work. I was like, there's no way. Yeah, it's going to be Stephen King and Steven Spielberg running his VE nominee. I'll just pick random name. Henry Winkler and Julie Andrews will be on the ticket. I really could, I mean, everybody's hated, right? You know, Bernie's got a lot of grudging respect from the right now, I think.

But Bernie Sanders is not unknockable for this list. Michelle Obama is certainly not. Andy Bashir, Phil Scott, the Republican governor of Vermont. Yeah, like Bashir. He's sort of the archetype, but I don't know if he's not on the list. list. Just getting elected in a red state. How dominant a victory would James Tolariko have to have to be a late ad to this list?

Like if he won like 70, 30, would he be on the list? If you've just seen the first round of attacks against James Tala Rico, he would have to be a hundred to nothing for him to make the list. I thought former New Zealand Vice Prime Minister Jacinda Arden might be on the list, but she had some really low people ratings at one point. Mowals That's the deal Don't get into the approval rating business If you want to be an unknockable

Yes Just don't take a job where people measure your approval Mogals I got Barry Diller Warren Buffett And Lauren Michaels You're interested in any of those people I'd say Lauren is a yes

Specifically in this moment We've got the S&O UK SNL seems to have more Relevance than just about Any time outside of a presidential election in our lifetimes. We might not have said that 10 years ago. Probably wouldn't have said that 10 years ago, but man, he feels like it now.

But the other two, no. They're two Mowgli. Funny men, this is the final category. Larry David. Oh, God, yes. Martin Short. Okay. Eugene Levy.

Will Ferrell and Conan O'Brien. Okay. Say the list again? Larry David Martin Schwartz Yes Yeah We already get Steve Martin on the list

Unless we do them as a pair Maybe it makes more six Martin Could they No because they were on There's only Only murders in the building together And they've done

You know They tour together Huh? They tour together Three Amigos together Mm-hmm One of the great classics Of our lifetime

Um So so that's a That's a qualified yes. And what was the list? David, Martin Short, Eugene Levy, Will Ferrell, Conan O'Brien. Will Ferrell and Conan O'Brien are both, and Larry David, are all good options. I know. Conan might be a little too soon.

Yeah, maybe so. But he does, like, host the Oscars and has a successful podcast. He does. He's very loved. Of all the former late... Tina Faye and Amy Poehler are a good one, too. I feel like all these require like arguments. As a duo?

Yeah. We got Tina and Amy, Joe and Troy, Steve Martin and Martin Short or the PTI guys. I think we feel like we should pick one of those maybe. All right. Or just a separate tag team tournament. Let's, right, a separate championship belt is being defended. Let's go through the list here. Hughie Brown, I'm all in.

Dolly Parton? Yes. Willie Nelson. I mean Do we need to lose I feel like Dolly might X out Okay I think This is where we have to make some hard decisions

We just can't keep everything I feel we need Scorsese or Spielberg Spielberg seems More apt in a weird Oh no Spielberg seems like a better Spielberg seems more obvious But Scorsese feels more apt

Does that make sense? 100% We keep in Mel Brooks Yeah. Judy Bloom? Yeah. Miyamoto, the Nintendo inventor? Yes.

Michael J. Fox and Henry Winkler? Nah, just Winkler. Just Winkler. Buzz Aldrin and Patrick Stewart? I love both of those so much. Patrick Stewart's really fun to have a list. We have a lot of actors. Yeah.

Should we just? do are we are we keeping the categories at all or the category is gone by the wayside now they've gone by the wayside we're just looking for the best of the best oh i mean you could almost do a whole subcategory of like space themed also rands right this will be on our new uh sub stack we're doing a backdoor pilot for because you could do because you can you almost make the case for so many of those star wars names that we talked about No. For Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

You know, you could put in, you could throw in Rocky from Project Tail Mary in there. Oh, yeah. He would have been a good mascot one, too. I mean, because he, I feel like he's more popular than Grogu now, right? But there's like a whole, I feel like that better than punch the monkey. That's the question. My, I think my bigger question is, is space just weirdly disqualifying? Are we just to get to say, I think we should almost say no to everybody that's space related.

Okay, so no Patrick Stewart and no Buzz Aldrin. This is an earthbound contest. Wait, did you get penalized if you've either really or fictionally been to space? I feel like for practical purposes, yes. Okay. So I'm going to cross them off. Julie Louise Dreyfus or John Goodman? If we did indeed do Julia do Louis Dreyfers before, I would go John Goodman.

I think so too. Merrill Street we're keeping? Yeah. Got to. Steve Martin or John Lithgow or both. Lithgow and then we'll consider Martin for the team awards. Okay. Let's keep like one of the,

Harrison Ford, Morgan Freeman, or Clint Eastwood. Again, Harrison Ford disqualified because of space. I would lean towards... What about John Lithgow? Third Rock from the Sun. He came from another planet. Great point. Also, didn't like that show because of Lithgow.

No, I didn't either. I think Lithgow is kind of on this list. Yeah, I think Lithgow. And we're good with no mortgage Freeman or Clint Eastwood? I mean, they're both good options to have in the back pocket. If we need a round number, we'll come back.

We'll come back. Julie Andrews? No. Carol Burnett. Although Julie Andrews was on the original list. Is she the only holdover? That's kind of fun. Okay, let's keep her on.

Okay. Carol Burnett? Yeah. Keeping Carol Burnett. Stephen King? Yes, right? What is Julian? Andrews X out, Carol Burnett?

Maybe one of the two. Okay. Let's stick with Julie Andrews then, yeah. Julie Andrews. What was Carol Burnett in reason? Oh, she was in that Apple TV show. Yeah, but it was, she was, she'd done, what's it called? The Kristen Whig show on Apple TV. She's actually very good.

Stephen King's on this list. Yes. Got to be. Robert Caro. I'm very good with that. Yeah. Margaret Atwood? Do we do caro versus Atwood? Are there Atwood haters out there?

Carol versus Atwood is such a weird literary face-off. Yeah. Are there Atwood? For some reason, I feel like there's Atwood haters, but I don't know. Well, there's probably political, there's probably people that are invested in that politically. We could just take Stephen King as our novelist, too. Yeah, we could just do that. Okay.

Let's see. Punch the Monkey. you have to have some kind of mascot unless you want to put Rocky in, but I think punch is funny. Okay, punch is great. Paul McCartney or Elton John or Stevie Wonder. I feel like one of those guys should be out. We should just make a tough choice.

It's a freaking death match. It really is. I mean, Paul McCartney we just saw on TV, which is relevant. On SNL, too, right? Season finale of SNO. Which is relevant, but also skews the perception a little bit?

It really does. And it doesn't really matter for this. I mean, is any of that stuff, if we look back, even in a year, has anything that Paul McCartney's done, does any of it rival, like, Stevie Wonder's relevance for Obama's election? Yeah, like, being, like, the theme song. Well, Stevie Wonder for every single, like, every single party nominating convention ever. Like, he is the, he is the song. Also, Steve you wonder, we saw Stevie Wonder, you and I saw Stevie Wonder perform about 10 feet away at a, at a club. I don't remember that.

A decade or two ago. But I swear, I have, I've been to a couple of these and watched the rest on television, but every time the nominee speaks, signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours, is on the speakers. Yeah. Here we go. Is it Stevie? Yeah, I think it's Stevie. It's Stevie.

All right. John Williams has got to be on the list. Yeah, 100%. Weird Al Yankovic? Yes. I kind of like it. Yep. Sir David Attenborough?

Yes. I'm happy. Dame Helen Mirren? Yeah. Okay. Ernie Johnson. Yes. He just screams unknockability.

Put Helen Mirren, put an asterisk next to her name. I feel like the list is getting long. But anyway, yes. Letterman? I mean, yes. Pruleith. Yes. I like all these names.

You got to take some off because I can't be the arbiter on all these. Barry Sanders. I mean, it's nice to have an athlete or two on there. I like Barry Sanders. Okay. Sandy, Cofax, or Billy Jean-Kine. I feel like you should pick one. To me, it's Kofax, but I don't know.

I mean, I could be, I could be like actually wrong. I don't know there. Yeah. I mean, Sandy Kofax just has this unbelievable. Again, somebody that felt like he was from a hundred years ago. A ballad when we were children. All right, we'll go with Sandy. Penn and Teller.

I mean, that's a yes for me. I too. I'm with you. John Stewart. I feel it's a. to know through no fault of John Stewart's own. Ina Garton's a yes. Okay.

PTI or let's see, are we in for the Criterion Collection as our institution? Sure. Criterion's good and if we got to pick one duo, it's got to be PTI. You think Tony and Mike over Joe and Troy, Steve Martin and Martin Short and Tina and Amy? Yes.

Okay. And... I mean, I wouldn't be opposed to having more than one duo in there, but I definitely think PTI is easy number one. And we're good with Lauren Michael's yeah pretty good list i love this list uh i also put down some funny ones here ringer unknockables 100% approval rating within the ringer john malaney oh i think the ringer employees yes okay john maloney yeah chris ryan yeah but john malaney and uh darrell morrie maybe slightly shaken as of late he just got fired by the sixers and it seemed like the 75 sixers fans

that work for the ringer. We're all happy about it. We also got recently departed unknockables. These are people that would have made the list. The in-memorium section. The in-memorium section. Get out of Hanky. Who from this list would not be on our list? Robert Duval.

No way. Just kidding. Keep going. Norman Lear. Uh-huh. Gene Hackman. Yeah. Catherine O'Hara. Hickman's number one on my list, but go ahead. Same. Catherine O'Hara. Mm-hmm.

Jane Goodall. Yeah. James Earl Jones. Oh, God, yeah. Dame Maggie Smith. Mm-hmm. Bill Russell. Yeah.

Willie Mays. Mm-hmm. Ricky Henderson. Yeah. John La Cere. Yeah. I just started reading the book his son wrote. The new...

What does it call? It's like he's using a pin name, but he's not writing as he's... It's a smiley book, right? Yeah. It's a smile. Riley book. That was a weird one for continuation beyond the original. Sure. John LaCarray, John Madden, John Lewis, and Jim Lovell of the Apollo 13. Yeah, for sure. That would have been our exception to the no space rule. Yeah, well, we've had to fight over it, but sure.

That David rather sloppily enforced. Also, before we go, these people are knockable. but is there a path to unknockability? Okay. Are there any royals that could get there? I feel like there was a moment where certainly Harry and Megan would have been on the list. Uh, not anymore. Is there a path for Prince William or Kate, his wife, who is much more well-liked, but has a very noisy, hater contention online?

I can see Kate getting there for sure. maybe a William, maybe William becoming king would be enough to put Kate over the top. Kate, Kate, there's a path. William is an interesting one. I do think there's a crazy, there's a crazy path that he could take

that would make, that would get him likable. You know? Stephen A. Smith. Does he have a path? Sure. Not running for president, but yes. Kind of reminds me of Christopher Hitchens. I was like, man, how could you

support this awful and illegal war. And then when he died, it's like, why can't they make him like Christopher Hitchens anymore? Zeran Mamdani. He's a great one. I mean, for all of the voices that are anti-Mamdani, within the Democrat Party and without, it weirdly feels like he's got more crossover approval rating than like any other Democrat, right?

I'm not talking I'm not talking about the purple politicians. I just mean like of all like the true blue dims, I feel like there's always, I mean, look, he charmed Trump. I feel like there's always people who were coming out of the woodwork to be like, New York's a hellhole, but this one idea

of having people struggle to snow was a great idea. You know, like whatever. I do think that there's a path for him. I do think he could be America's mayor. Norman Thomas was on the original list. There could be a socialist slot. That's true.

Yeah. Don't you think New York should just start, should just lay claim to America's mayor? Because they had the previous one and just anoint every new mayor of New York, America's mayor. Who was the last one? Rudy? Yeah, just Rudy.

But we've had a couple of New York mayors who were not American. Bill de Blasio was not America's mayor. No, but wouldn't it be a great schick for him to go out in every press conference and be like, welcome America's mayor, Bill de Blasieres. You know, and he's just like, he's just coming up preening in front of the crowd. You won the election, so therefore you were. Yeah.

America's mayor. Like the Cowboys will never stop being America's team, no matter how many seasons they're not America's team. Yeah. How about Ezra Klein? Does he have a path? No. I think he's done incredible work for himself,

but I don't think there's, I just think that corner of the world is just too many people are dedicated to knocking you. for to be an unknockable. I didn't put any showrunners on this list. It's still a sort of like ephemeral job description, right? Like we don't, we know. Yeah, I mean, I guess, I guess. Like David Chase.

I mean, is there somebody, you know, who, who's in the kind of autour category from, Seaner rhymes. I mean, she's still doing, she might be one of, I know there's other examples, but like, when she signed that Netflix deal, it felt kind of like she would never live up.

to it and then Bridgering came along and I don't know who else of that very well paid showrunner class is completely successful. I'm sure Ryan Murphy is successful on paper but

relevance kind of comes and goes. I don't know, Shonda Rhymes is an interesting one. She's an interesting one. By the way, we still got an asterisk next to Helen Mirren. What do I do with us before we shut this thing down? Well, in an editorial board, meeting you be bouncing out men versus women and everything else and deciding whether or not her and mirrored.

Is there any other actor on the list that makes her seem like a misfit? No. I just watched Prime Suspect the other day. I watched the whole thing. Yeah. In parts before I was going to sleep and I just loved it. It's a great going to sleep. Helen Mirrens.

British crime is the best going to sleep aid in the world? It really is. Helen Mirren's on the list. Okay. All right. Inevitably, David and I miss some people. Oh. Hit us up.

You didn't even mention John Sina, which is kind of heartbreaking. No, he's not on the list. Pressbox wringer at gmail.com. Yeah. For any of your unknockable suggestion. Yeah, hit us up immediately, too. Immediately. This is a living list, a living document, if you will,

even though David's going to make a cover with the people we just selected. I'm Brian Curtis. He's David Chewemaker. Production. by Isaiah Blakely, John Romer, and Ben Cruz, our pal sitting in here with us today on this podcast. Thank you so much, Ben. Coming up this week, Joel Anderson is going to be holding this thing down on Thursday.

He's got something special in store for you. Check out, Joel. David, I'll see you next Tuesday with more lukewarm takes about the media. See you later, brother. Hey, y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if, like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair.

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